₦airaland Forum

sonmvayina:
You still don't understand anything.
The Torah is a constitution of the jews. They operate a theocracy.
It is not a history textbook. It us for spiritual instruction..it was compiles to be used in the synagogue. Not history class..
Should I open a thread for this purpose ?
You just keep trying to interpret the story in the book. ..like they happen...

If it didn't happen, why quoting it?

KNOWMORE56:
Hmm!
Just like Catholic Women Organisation - "ORGANIZED global family of peace loving women"

you particularly have been preaching the organisation:
Check the link below to see where I quote you from
https://www.nairaland.com/6001666/what-preach/1#92712383

That's why i told you "whatever you want to know trinity will teach you"

achorladey:
Now you see the facts, before you were looking for MOTIVES

Thanks for confirming that you're an atheist!

achorladey:
You just laugh how they keep doing what they accuse others.
See the below from their magazine Awake 2000...........
........ Some people insult those who disagree with them by questioning character or motives instead of focusing on the facts............
When discussion get locked. That start seeking for motives and best performance performing group.

Focusing on facts that says "Jesus was a myth"
Clap for yourself!

It's self explanatory!

sonmvayina:
I have asked you this question before, I will ask you again .
Which do you prefer or if you where God, who will be your chosen person?
1. Be in a peaceful group that worships an idol
Or
2. Be by yourself and keep God's commandments.
You have not still grasp the reason why the law was given in the first place, whether 1000 jesuses came and died It is never going to make I obsolete. The Law is forever.
And God made it super clear that anybody coming to change it CAN NOT be from him.

Well according to the Bible the laws came after Moses, Adam, Eve, Enoch, Methuselah, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph lived without those laws.
So if some people lived and were God's friends before those laws it simply means those laws can't be permanent, it was brought for a purpose and when that purpose is met it will no longer be needed!
God can't bring in laws in the middle and ask everyone to live by it, it should have been from the beginning if it's as important as you think!

When Vladimir Putin attacked Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia instead of protesting against the mad man most critics were jubilating.
Today he is taking his madness to another country and arresting his own people who are protesting against his barbaric act.
https://l.kphx.net/s?d=8993597719917986104

KNOWMORE56:
By the way, I'm still interested in:
Why do we not have the word organisation in any of the version?
I asked to KNOWMORE !
I have often heard you and your brothers saying the following words are not in the Holy Scriptures: Bible, rapture, etc. Recently you said that the word mystery is not in your version...

Because any other word you choose can well replace an ORGANIZED PEOPLE WORSHIPING their God just as Jesus prayed for:

“I make request, not concerning these only, but also concerning those putting faith in me through their word, so that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, so that the world may believe that you sent me. I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one. I in union with them and you in union with me, in order that they may be perfected into one, so that the world may know that you sent me and that you loved them just as you loved me! John 17:20-23

Compare to


In the final part of the days, The mountain of the house of Jehovah Will become firmly established above the top of the mountains, And it will be raised up above the hills, And to it all the nations will stream. And many peoples will go and say: “Come, let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, To the house of the God of Jacob. He will instruct us about his ways, And we will walk in his paths.” For law will go out of Zion, And the word of Jehovah out of Jerusalem. He will render judgment among the nations And set matters straight respecting many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares And their spears into pruning shears. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, Nor will they learn war anymore. Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-3

So you can use any other word suitable enough from your reasoning to replace that, we used it as the term that best describes an ORGANIZED global family of peace loving worshipers. Therefore we don't preach organization unlike you people who keeps preaching trinity and saying it's a mystery!

sonmvayina:
Yes, that's the tanakh..

Where's/ What's your proof?
Remember i'm not asking for STORY! STORY!! STORY!!!
But practical benefits of your so called original because the only proof of ORIGINAL is it's positive result in the gathering of those making use of it in the right sense!

sonmvayina:
All these are just your opinion. It is not supported anywhere in the original Bible..

So you have that original Bible shey?

"El" is the short form of Elohim which means "God"
"Yahweh" is the personal name of the God of Israel!

MindHacker9000:
How about this for you. Just yesterday soldiers were hiding when it was the time they really needed their black magic bullet proof. So the question you need to ask yourself is, why does it always fail when it is really needed and it only seems to work during a beer parlor talk?

Uromi Bank Robbery: Soldiers Hide As Robbers Cart Away Money (Photos, Video)
https://www.nairaland.com/7003057/uromi-bank-robbery-soldiers-hide

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q59l9UKL6X4

After saying:

Thanks for your time!

And you responded

MindHacker9000:
No problem.

It seems you're not yet through with this shey?

Well this is a planned job by the robbers and the soldiers never told you they're wearing any black magic so stop bringing all events into the matter as if everyone knows about black magic.
I told you:
"The process isn't that easy. And whoever wants it must be prepared to deal directly with the spirits involved who will give you several dos and donts that you mustn't miss any not even by mistake" yet you're bent on bringing every story into the matter!

RepoMan007:
Is it faith, strength or lack of knowledge?

It was the presence of the twelve tribes of Israel as a nation that's attracting such powers so after that nation has been scattered there's no such thing again!

AntiChristian:
Coming closer to Jesus? Where the kids that were killed given such chance?

I told you that "it's not about being kids" whether they're children or adult they'll be viewed as waste products if they don't come to God. Anyone that comes close to our God with a pure motive will be saved whether child or adult. Jesus' presence in Israel during the first century connotes God's presence so anyone who comes close to him will be shown mercy while all those that ignored him are doomed!

AntiChristian:
How do you think this is fair if your fair & Just God can kill kids cos their parents are not believers?

Both their parents and the children are useless to God since they choose to remain in the midst of God's enemies opposing God's plan. A prostitute in Jericho named Rahab took the initiative and all her family were saved.
So it's not about being adults or children, once those little children took their chances of being close to God's prophet they will be saved!
Your own religion has tenets and according to it anyone who reject it will be dealt with by your God. But what plan is your God making to help people who love righteousness but aren't born by worshipers of your god?
Remember everyone already have their forms of worship before your religion comes so what is your god doing about that?

AntiChristian:
Did Jesus know the righteousness of the parent of those kids before making that statement?

Their parents are irrelevant as long as those children decided to come closer to Jesus the one whom their religious leaders are prepared to expel anyone from the temple for believing in him! John 9:22; 12:42
So if a parent choose to live and die a pagan but the child chose to serve the true God such a humble child will be rewarded for his/her faith! Ezekiel 18:20

AntiChristian:
Were the kid's parents Christians or Jehovah witnesses before Jesus prayed for them?

Their parents are of no importance to the prophet who knows God's righteous standard that says "the child will not answer for the errors of his parents"

KNOWMORE56:
*. Mark 4 11 "NWT: He said to them: “To you the sacred secret + of the Kingdom of God has been given, but to those outside all things are in illustrations,+"

"KJV:And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:"

Check @ highlightes and verse above. You posted that mystery means secret... and you can see it in your version but you turn around and said it's not found


it's like saying " no JW in NL forum, but Max is there and Max is a member of JW"

A secret is explainable so the NWT often used that word "SACRED SECRETS" instead of "MYSTERY"
If anyone should ask you to explain your trinity God now you will end up saying "it's a MYSTERY" so your listener just have to accept it even when he can't grasp or teach others.
But SACRED SECRETS are revealed to few (according to Jesus) and it's this few that will have to TEACH others for them to know the PRACTICAL APPLICATION of the SACRED SECRETS.

So if my God is unexplainable then whoever refuse to accept such a God is not at fault after all i can't expect them to leave their former god (that's mysterious) only to bring them a replacement that's also mysterious!

AntiChristian:
Did Jesus know the faith of those Children's parent when he said the above statement above? Is there any proof to this claim?

Children of disbelievers are like waste products!

Chai! This one too much ooo!

Jesus' statement is not about their age but the attributes of a child.
They are willing to learn humbly!
That's the point not their age.
Jesus also referred to people (Israelites) who aren't giving him any attention as DEAD (walking corpse) {Luke 9:60} so he's telling his disciples who were trying to prevent the little children from coming closer to him because according to God's law the Israelites should learn God's word along with their little ones {Deuteronomy 31:12} so his disciples who wants to deprive those humble little children from coming closer to Jesus (the world's most Wonderful Counselor) were wrong!

AntiChristian:
So children and infants too can be righteous like the adults? Didn't Jesus said in Mat 19:14 and Luke 18:16 that

“Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.”

Same Children Yahweh send to be killed

Children don't discriminate and they're willing to learn humbly that's why the kingdom of heaven belong to those having such attributes.
But as for children born to people who don't know God's righteous standards they are like waste products because they'll grow up to be empty headed like their parents who knew nothing about God's standards even enemies of God!

oteneaaron:
MOTIVE you say?
Pray tell, what is his motive?
Anyways, I do agree with you that his words are actually gibberish.

MOTIVE:
Everyone is concerned about the safety of the citizens of Ukraine so as a religious leader with lot of gullible followers who may have relatives in Ukraine or concerned he need to fabricate something to make them feel relaxed after all a man of God has spoken assuring them that God will soon intervene!

oteneaaron:
Why do you keep contradicting yourself?
To investigate whether or not Jesus was a real figure in history, and if the Bible in itself is based on true history and not MYTHS and ALLEGORIES, we MUST do extensive research into the history of Christianity and the Bible itself. Why do I say this? Haven't you heard of the council of Nicea that was set up by Emperor Constantine after his "conversion" into Christianity? How do you think you got the little 66 books in the Bible? It is a known FACT that at least 2,000 years before the life and story of Jesus was complied in the the Bible, there was already a similar story of a God-Man also known as the KRST or CHRIST in ancient Egypt called HORUS. HORUS was even called IUSA, which is an earlier version of the word "Jesus"
- HORUS was born on the 25th of December
- He was born of a virgin and 3 wise men came to pay homage to him on the day of his birth
- He turned water into wine
- He resurrected a man called El Asarus
- He healed the sick and infirmed
- He walked on water, etc...
Go and read about the Rosetta Stone, the Naghamadi Scriptures, and the Behistun rock.
The stories in the Bible are not unique.
Even the basic creation story of Genesis in the Bible is not even original - it is a cheap copy of the original creation story from the ATRAHASIS and the ENUMA ELISH found on the clay cuneiform tablets from ancient Mesopotamia which predates every known civilization by thousands of years.
But I can't SPOON FEED you.
You must DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH.
The information is out there for you.
All you need to do is find it.

That's why i said you should first consider the profession and background of the person you want to discuss with. You don't just conclude that all your audience are ignorant of what you're saying.
I served in Europe not Nigeria and i've heard similar things as well but most of these stories you're comparing were written or edited many years after Jesus has lived. That's why i said you must first think of the MOTIVE behind the author of what you read.
Constantine led the council.
MOTIVE: to strengthen his Kingdom by merging the cultures of Rome with that which survived the destruction of Jerusalem. After the destruction of Jerusalem the Jewish religious system ended as many were killed and the strongest clergy (Pharisees) serving as rulers among the Jews scattered. Constantine believe that Christianity survived all the troubles and has gone far without adherents having to come and worship in the Jerusalem temple. So he decided to merge his Roman tradition with Christianity. The Apostates who loved prominence supported his idea and so they were willing to work with him in order to form a new political dispensation that will cut across all Europe.
It worked out as planned that's why the Roman empire lasted longer than all other Kingdoms ever ruled as world power.

As for the similarities in stories or myths that's easy, people fabricate stories and add what they heard from other sources to make it fearful or amazing. Rumours of ghosts is well known throughout the world and people always add or subtract such rumours due to what they heard elsewhere.
So that doesn't sound any different from what's been happening Sir.
What really matters to an intelligence officer is the MOTIVE behind each story, you just admitted that Constantine set up the council after his convertion meaning there was an existing story before the council added salt and pepper!

Hebrews 13:4

oteneaaron:
All for social media clout.
Taking sides in a conflict he has no inkling idea of how it all started since the days of the Soviet Union.
Pathetic.

He isn't taking side rather he's trying to do something. Find out the MOTIVE behind his comment first before you can know for real why he spewed the gibberish!

KNOWMORE56:
Which of your questions have not been answered or who prevented you from asking questions... Your Bible have many things missing, you are programmed to accept whatever Watch Tower tell you... I suppose that the NWT ( New World Transmission) is your preferred version...the word organisation is not replaced for the word church in the version (i. e the NWT)
yet you accept it...
Let's see from the Bible:
*. Matthew 16:18 "NWT: Also, I say to you: You are Peter,+ and on this rock+ I will build my congregation, and the gates of the Grave* will not overpower it."
*. Matthew 16:18 "KJV:And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
@underlined which one is not correct...?
1. my organisation of Jehovah's witnesses
2. my congregation of Jehovah's witnesses
3. my church of Jehovah's witnesses
4. my church
You can compare/ check other verses with the word church below:
Matthew 18:17; Acts 2:47; 5:11; 7:38; 8:1,3... and so on.
My point is that I don't see any genuine reason for not accepting the word mystery simply because it is not in your Bible
because the word organisation is not there also although you accept it!

Do you truthfully want to KNOWMORE?

Let's reason like real intellectuals here!

Remember our discussion never started with the word (MYSTERY) there's a concept you and i wanted to figure out which is the TRINITY that can't be found anywhere in the Bible yet it's the Hallmark of your faith. The reason why you brought in the word "MYSTERY" is to make up for this anonymous "TRINITY" therefore it's like using one thing to cover for another.
So in a nutshell instead of preaching and teaching what TRINITY is, the interpreters of the version you're carrying want to use the word MYSTERY to shy away!

Please how do you think
"Something secret or unexplainable; an unknown"
Is sufficient enough to make up for what Jesus actually commanded his disciples to go out there to PREACH and TEACH? Matthew 28:19-20

I agreed with the Watchtower's interpretation because MYSTERY is not mentioned otherwise to continue preaching zealously and teaching industriously will be a challenge.
Perhaps that's why only the JWs are globally known for their confidence and consistency in doing exactly what Jesus commanded: going to meet people in their homes {Matthew 10:11-13} while all the others randomly talk in buses, market places and street corners {Matthew 12:19} instead of boldly speaking with people one on one! Malachi 3:16

oteneaaron:
That is where you got it all wrong.
Where is the hate in any of my statement?
Your organization says it is the one true religion. To prove that statement, we MUST study the history of your organization, and study ALL of your publications - both new and old.

When talking about reality try to consider the profession of others and their experience in life. When you say Max (the former agent of the intelligence) i expected you to challenge that intelligence from a critical point of view not a childish challenge that'll keep making you sound like a baby before real intellectuals.

Do you truly want to challenge my intelligence or you're just trying to blackmail a group all because of their bold claim of being the only true religion?
Well to prove something is right or wrong you must be prepared to check all sides not just the history. WHY? Because humans are capable of lying and by so doing conceal facts that may lead you to get what you truly desire to find out.
What assurance do you have that all those stories you're relying upon aren't fabricated to distort facts?
Remember i am an ex military intelligence officer so i've gotten much more experience than you in this field. We deal with people and things we're able to gather through what they say. But we don't forget one thing that's behind all human actions: "MOTIVE"
So no matter what any agent may think he is able to gather he must first be certain of the MOTIVE behind otherwise the intelligence will tell you "you still need to go back for another course" because everything humans do has a MOTIVE behind it and once you can't perceive the MOTIVE then you've done nothing worthwhile before the intelligence!

oteneaaron:
Don't confuse what Jesus was saying with your organization. Don't get it twisted - He wasn't talking about you.

This is where your insincerity becomes really obvious!
Is Jesus a real historical figure or just a myth?
In the intelligence we don't discard anything no matter how stupid it may sound as long as we're able to perceive the MOTIVE behind it.
The Bible talked about a God who claims to be the Almighty, this God authored the book and PERFECTLY made sure it reached all the four corners of the earth so the first thing any true researcher need to find out is the MOTIVE behind that book (Bible)
The so called history you've gathered all these while means nothing to the intelligence unless you're able to tell the MOTIVE behind the production of that book that has become the most important book and best seller of all time (Bible)
As for Jesus and whatever the book says about him that's just secondary not our primary goal!

oteneaaron:
What do you mean?

How am I being insincere?

Did you even read any of what I typed up there?

No other organization has come outright and claimed to be the "one true religion", "God's Organization", "God's only channel of communication", or "God's spirit-led organization.

Only yours, the JWs/ the Watchtower Organization, have made this claim.

And because of that, we MUST first dismantle that FALSE CLAIM, before moving on to the next step of doing extensive research into the roots of Christianity as a whole.

But what do I know?

The Ball is in your court and like I have said countless times before now, I CAN'T SPOON FEED YOU.

You have to do this for yourself.

But from the look of things at this moment, you are not ready to free your mind from the shackles of religious indoctrination.

So continue receiving your weekly Zoom dose of indoctrination, and refuse to do any refuse research for yourself.

One day, it will dawn on you.

Cheers!!

While others who are equally wrong are joining you against one group shey?
Well such joint effort of criticism can only achieve one thing in the mind of a JW:
Jesus already warned us that the world will hate us for claiming exactly what he claimed that led to the same kind of hatred he faces in the first century!
Do you now see where your so called research failed woefully?

oteneaaron:
Suite yourself man.
When the time is right, you will understand me.

Understanding you is impossible unless you're speaking generally against what you know is wrong. But when fighting against one specific group while members of other groups are coming to support your criticism yet you turn around to come and convince a member of the only group you've been attacking that your fight is against all including those who have been supporting you!
Come on my guy it can never ever made any sense, go tell it to any reasonable individual if i'm telling you a lie!

oteneaaron:
Have you done any counter research to prove false any of my claims?

This isn't about name calling.

JWs have claimed to be the "only true religion" but extensive research into its true origins, with the assistance of its own publications, has proven that to be a BLATANTLY FALSE CLAIM.

So if the JW organization has been proven to be false, the next step is to take our extensive research to the true roots of Christianity itself.

But you are not willing to take that hard road, you prefer to be spoon fed with ever changing doctrines from men like you.

Instead of you to do yourself a favor, to actually DO YOUR RESEARCH, and give your mind a chance to change your world view, you prefer INDOCTRINATION.

Is that not tantamount to LYING to your own self?

No sincere individual will listen to you when you're choosy in your research!

oteneaaron:
How am I a LIAR?

Have you done any counter research to prove false any of my claims?

This isn't about name calling.

JWs have claimed to be the "only true religion" but extensive research into its true origins, with the assistance of its own publications has proven that to be a BLATANTLY FALSE CLAIM.

So if the JW organization has been proven to be false, the next step is to take our extensive research to the true roots of Christianity itself.

But you are not willing to take that hard road, you prefer to be spoon fed with ever changing doctrines from men like you.

Instead of you to do yourself a favor, and give your mind a chance to change your world view, you prefer INDOCTRINATION.

Is that not tantamount to LYING to your own self?

According to your research is any religion claiming Christian true?
If your answer is NO then your concentration on just one group is confirmed insincerity!

oteneaaron:
I am speaking to you Max.
DO YOUR RESEARCH!!
There is so much information about the true history of your religion.
Go and find it out for yourself.
I can't spoon feed you.

Before i can take anything from you seriously you should give the same advice to all those claiming believers in Jesus of Nazareth.
Then i will agree that you have something worthwhile but with your attack on only JWs it shows you're not sincere with your so called research!

oteneaaron:
So you really think Jesus was an actual figure in history?
DO YOUR RESEARCH!
Have you heard about the Egyptian Christ called Horus?
He was born of virgin, baptized at 30, resurrected Lazarus, turned water into wine, had a sermon on the mount, etc at least 2000 years before the Jesus of the Bible.
I gave you pointers sometime ago, go and start from reading those books.
Instead of taking the Bible as literal history - which it isn't, you should understand that it is all MYTHS and ALLEGORIES.
But I can't spoon feed you sir.
You have to find out this information for yourself.
It is not an issue of hate or attack.
History has proven this over and over again.
The life and story of Jesus is not unique, neither is it literal history.
There have been many "Christ Figures" from different cultures way older than Jesus of the Bible.
Go and read about - -
Horus, Dionysus, Krishna, Bacchus, Mythrias, but to mention a few.
DO YOUR RESEARCH!!

The only research i know here shows that you're a LIAR.
If truthfully you have something tangible to offer you should be open to all not only JWs!

Enmity start when people disagree.
JWs were banned in Russia by a tyrant who made many enemies of JWs happy but today the whole world can see clearly the spirit in that man called Vladimir Putin.
You can continue arguing fruitlessly against JWs but it's insincere Churchgoers that you can deceive with your snake-like attitude not JWs.
So instead of typing epistles only on JWs why not openly tell everyone that what they're all calling Christianity is false?

oteneaaron:
Cheap Blackmail.

I think my words definitely give you a hard on.

If only you would take some time off Nairaland and investigate the true origins of the religion you profess, these things would have been easy for you to understand.

Give him the same advice so that he can know that his religion is nonsense to you!