₦airaland Forum

Janosky:
I will address your points one after the other.
I want you to learn something ......
Jehovah God is Unchangeable CHANGER .
If need be, he changes his instruction for the good of his people.
1. Exodus 3:10, Jehovah appointed Moses ALONE to lead Israelites out of Egypt.

2. Exodus 4:13-16,brought another person to work with Moses.
Do you see the adjustment Jehovah made?
3. Numbers 11:16-17, Madam did you see the changes that Jehovah God made that HE didn't do @ Exodus 3:10?
4. 1Samuel 2:27-32, did Jehovah CHANGE His decree on the offsprings of Eli?
Let's go to the Greek scripture..
5. Matthew 10:5-6 & Acts 1:8, Madam, did Jesus Christ CHANGE /make adjustments to the instruction he gave the disciples?
Pls do personal Bible study,the GB always give this advice.

They don't have time for personal Bible study so they see the Governing Body like their God so when the Body makes any mistakes which is inevitable they think their God is the one making the mistake!

Ọmọ you talk too much just go straight to what you want exactly instead of this complaints.
Me i believe if you feel your religion is not ok you can always change your religion.
My former neighbor used to say:

If your church can't change you change your church. Simple as ABC!

wumiwumi100:
You asked for “honest answers,” and I gave them to you with clear facts and even Watchtower references. Before I responded, I even asked if you wouldn’t abandon the points made or shift the goalpost — yet that’s exactly what you’ve been doing.

Instead of directly addressing the issues I raised, you keep dodging, twisting, and running into side arguments that have nothing to do with the points on ground. That is not honesty, it is avoidance.

If you had real answers, you would counter my points head-on. But since you refuse to, I won’t waste further time replying to you. When I thought you were ready for an honest discussion, I engaged you. But it’s clear now that you are not, you’re only a coward hiding behind distractions.

So let me be very plain: if you cannot address the actual points raised, then do not comment on my posts again.

wumiwumi100:
Let me make something very clear: the reason I am talented and successful in my profession today is because I refused to follow the Governing Body’s advice. If I had listened, I would have been boxed into limited options, struggling under people with proper qualifications. Instead, I built my career because I refused to let their fear-based counsel hold me back.

So are you better than all those that followed the advice of the Governing Body?
Today we have lots billionaires in Nigeria who never attended the university but went for trade and manual skills in fact many of them are now bosses over those who have spent all their years in the university.
Nobody says university education is evil but what the Governing Body is saying is try to be self reliant instead of carrying degrees up and down seeking jobs, you don't know where you may find yourself in the future maybe it's in a country where they believe only in their own people than immigrants but if you are a skilled artisan you will be your own boss wherever you find yourself!

wumiwumi100:
Jehovah’s word doesn’t flip-flop. The GB does.

That's why i asked you to present another group that's leading an organized global family like Jehovah's Witnesses!

Listen to this commentator:

fobiflex:
That’s why we have many denominations, if you feel you’re not Ok with the doctrine of your church of worship you can always leave, even citizens seek asylum in other countries if they feel the laws of their state isn’t favorable.

The above commentator is responding to members of Deeperlife who are criticizing the leadership of the church.

The funny thing is that while members of Deeperlife have many churches they can opt for there is no church or religion exjws can go.

WHY?

They can never ever find a better group than Jehovah's Witnesses!

Janosky:
Madam,is appointment of Elders' your family's property?

If your dad steps down from the responsibility of an Elder ,you said "his family is humiliated?"
"Elder" nah title for the family?
Pls ,stop deceiving yourself.[/b]

Janosky!
I never knew some have customized the office of elder or ministerial servant as their family property o!

Elder wey me i dey dodge until C.O came and called me out asking why i haven't been appointed!

wumiwumi100:
When the people cried out about harsh conditions (Exodus 16:2–3), they were genuinely suffering. The problem wasn’t always the complaint, but their spirit. But here’s the key difference: when Moses gave instructions, it was exactly what Jehovah told him. He never came back later to say, “Jehovah changed His mind.” Even when Moses personally made a mistake, it was his own fault — not because Jehovah’s message was unclear (Numbers 20:10–12). The same applies to all God’s prophets in the Bible. They delivered God’s message once, and it stood. God does not make mistakes.

So did anyone tell you that the GB never made mistakes or that God is the one making the mistakes?

After leaving Egypt most Israelites started criticizing Moses due to errors he made which is obvious to all of them so they decided to break away from the camp and choose to someone who will lead them back to where?
Just imagine: Back to Egypt! Numbers 14:4
These are people who were slaves in the land under task masters forcing them to do hard labor. But now that they are free they want to rebel against Moses the same person God used to release them out of slavery!

What about first century disciples who started criticizing the leadership of elders and apostles in Jerusalem?
Many of them had witnessed how Jesus appointed these men as leaders of his group and seen them fulfilled most of the prophecies Jesus foretold but then they began criticizing them.
WHY?
Because the apostles and elders keep talking about the coming of the Lord yet they are dying one by one.
So they thought maybe the apostles had lost their position therefore each of them can start leading his own group. From that moment they started maligning the apostles.

So if i was in the camp of Israel back in the days of Moses or in the first century hearing twisted things apostates were saying what should i do?

Well i know that Jehovah is the only true God and anyone who wants to continue worshiping Him must always stand with the truth.
Therefore what is the truth on this matter?
God has promised to use humans to guide His worshipers but never said they will not make mistakes so whoever is speaking against Moses or the apostles only need to present those whom God has chosen to replace them otherwise such criticism is baseless!

wumiwumi100:
You keep avoiding the real issues and twisting everything to make it look like people are just “crying.” That alone shows you’re not being HONEST.

I have three questions for you.
Please answer with HONESTY!

When some Israelites were criticizing the leadership of Moses do you think those critics had no point at all?

When some first century Christians were criticizing the leadership of Apostles and Elders in Jerusalem do you think those critics had no point at all?

Why do you think those following them refused to listen to whatever critics were saying?

FxMasterz:
That's exactly what I did. I only explained the English with a similar English sentence for simplicity.

Please leave the English as written and allow everyone figure it out themselves!

Brenbentondiaz:
You as a Christian, are greater than Moses, Elijah and those other Old Testament prophets. That was what Christ was saying there. He was not specifically talking about GOs. He was talking about every true child of God (which may include the names you listed, if they're true christians). And, you're making the mistake of vouching for men. Lolz.

Highlighted is true because none of those people knew what Jesus later exhibited in his thoughts, words and actions! John 1:18

FxMasterz:
But He Himself said they are ONE! You know Him more than He knows Himself?

You only need to say exactly what he said then leave it open for everyone to figure it out for themselves.
I believe he meant representing the one who sent him and as shown in his prayer he has his own mind {Luke 22:42} so the oneness connotes agreement not sameness!

fobiflex:
That’s why we have many denominations, if you feel you’re not Ok with the doctrine of your church of worship you can always leave, even citizens seek asylum in other countries if they feel the laws of their state isn’t favorable.

I love this post even though it's ironic but it exposed the self-deceit of all exjws as evidence that there is no other religion out there like Jehovah's Witnesses organization otherwise they can easily leave for a better performing group of their choice after all they always claim JWs claim of being God's only channel is false!

FxMasterz:
Wow,I didn't interpreat what He MEANT, I only simplified what He said.
I and my Father are One can be understood in none other context than that oneness of inseparable ENTITIES .

The highlighted is enough evidence they are two separate persons not ONE!

FxMasterz:
Yup don't need to tell us what He meant. Tell us what He said. That's all. Who made you His interpreter?
We're talking what The said, and not what He meant. You are not His interpreter, so stop making such errors.

Aren't you the person who typed this?

FxMasterz:
But that's not what He said. He didn't say, you don't need to see the boss. He said "Whoever has seen me has already seen the Father." He then went further to say, the Father is in Me and I am in the Father. Meaning we're One inseparable Being.

So you suddenly don't want to hear the meaning but what he said shey?
Well what he said is simple but what he meant is the issue now!

FxMasterz:
Clearly as man. Chai, how would you guys understand?
What's my own insertion? He Himself said I and my Father are One. Or you didn't also hear Him tell Phillip that whoever has seen Him has seen the Father?

He meant God sent him as His representative it's like Tinubu sending someone to represent him in your local government whatever such a person says or does is to be taken as what Tinubu would have done if he's there in person because he's the one who sent him.

So if anyone asks what is the PROOF of what is written in the Bible?

I'm happy to tell you that we have all the proof we need today!

An individual may have many titles like:
Doctor, Husband, Father and Guardian but at the same time a unique name like David.


The Bible God also has many titles like:
God, Lord, Giver, Creator, Protector and so on but has one unique name that appears some 7,000 times in the Bible but sadly most translators have replaced God's divine name with the title: LORD that is why most Bible readers don't know God's personal name.

In Hebrew that name is represented by four consonants YHWH or JHVH so some people calls the name YAHWEH while others call JEHOVAH.

Today there is an organization globally known today as JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES this group are doing exactly what Jesus of Nazareth commanded in the Bible {Matthew 28:19-20} and they have all the qualities Jesus foretold about his real disciples.

Jesus said his disciples will become preachers and teachers of God's word in all their neighborhood! Act 1:8
Do you know a group knocking on your door to discuss about God's Kingdom today? Matthew 10:7

Jesus taught his disciples that in addition to their love for God they must love their neighbors as themselves! Mark 12:29-31
Do you know a friendly group that always come around uninvited to visit you as friendly neighbors? Matthew 10:11-13

Jesus taught his disciples that love among themselves will serve as evidence that they are his disciples! John 13:34-35
Do you know any group that have love among themselves to the extent that its so obvious to everyone?

Jesus taught his disciples to be peaceful everywhere they go! Matthew 10:16
Do you know a group whose members are always peaceful despite the troubles in our world? Romans 12:18

Jesus taught his disciples that their own government will come from heaven {Matthew 6:10} so they are not part of this world's politics! John 17:14-15
Do you know any group whose members don't participate in worldly politics?

Today the whole world knows this group and they have resolved their disparities peacefully among themselves, diverted their resources into production of food and information materials stopped the making buying selling and using of weapons and vow never to raise weapons against their neighbors. Isaiah 2:4

They are known as Jehovah's Witnesses!

fobiflex:
That’s why we have many denominations, if you feel you’re not Ohk with the doctrine of your church of worship you can always leave, even citizens seek asylum in other countries if they feel the laws of their state isn’t favorable

God bless you Sir!

FxMasterz:
But that's not what He said. He didn't say, you don't need to see the boss. He said "Whoever has seen me has already seen the Father." He then went further to say, the Father is in Me and I am in the Father. Meaning we're One inseparable Being.

Your own insertion!

Jesus said when he feels different from what his father wants him to do:

“Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.” Luke 22:42 NIV


Evidence they are not same person!

EVIDENT DEMONSTRATION OF REALITIES NOT SEEN!

The Bible God first appeared to a man named Abraham and promised to make His name known throughout the earth by means of the descendants of Abraham! Genesis 12:1-3
Today there are books referred to as best selling but none comes close to the Bible a book in which contains stories of the God of Abraham.

The Bible God promised to gather faithful people throughout the world and remove hatred in their hearts so that people throughout the world can see that what He promised is happening!


In the last days the mountain of the Lord’s temple will be established as the highest of the mountains; it will be exalted above the hills, and all nations will stream to it. Many peoples will come and say, “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the temple of the God of Jacob. He will teach us his ways, so that we may walk in his paths.” The law will go out from Zion, the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. He will judge between the nations and will settle disputes for many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore. ‭Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-3 NIV‬


We read in the Bible that in the first century Jewish community a young man named Jesus started gathering people and teaching them how to fulfill what the God of Abraham promised and after his assignment he said to his disciples:


But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.” ‭Acts 1:8 NIV‬

What is the EVIDENT DEMONSTRATION OF REALITIES that we haven't seen today?

Well this is the twenty-first century about three thousand years after the God of Abraham promised through his prophets Isaiah and Micah.

Are we seeing the evidence of what this God promised today?

Well He included in His words that those doing His will are WITNESSES of His Godship:


“You are my witnesses,” declares the Lord, “and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me". ‭Isaiah 43:10 NIV‬


Do we have a global group bearing this name today?
What are they doing to prove that they are truly Witnesses of the Bible God?

To be continued...

FxMasterz:
Your questions have only one answer. Abd here is it:

Jesus waa both man and God. As man The called Father God, as God, He's worshiped. This will not be the first time you'll hear that Jesus was fully man and fully God. However, your likes on my hold on to His ful manliness. You reject His Godhood. There's no way you can answer any of the questions I presented above without contradicting yourself. That's why you came up with two other questions borne of ignorance.

The highlighted is your own insertion not found in God's word!

FxMasterz:
Well, I don't think they're lies. There's report in many countries. Let's leave that, and let's get to the question.

God's word says:
Make sure of all things; hold fast to what is fine. 1Thessalonians 5:21
If you hear reports from many countries but never caught any in your country a wise person will know that such reports are based false stories you can't accuse a global organization of what you heard in far away countries when you can't see such in your own country where members of the group are many!

FxMasterz:
The question has not been answered. I didn't ask if Jesus will hand over or not. You know, His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom. Everyone knows that. It's peace has no end. Everyone knows that. But that's not the question. Just trying to pick some issues with your handover point.

Back to the question. Is Jesus King of Heaven and Earth?

I've answered this as the scriptures says that Jesus is not King over his God who chose him to rule as His representative! 1Corinthans 15:27

Janosky:
Why don't you study John 14:24 & John 13:16 to understand John 14:9?
I sent my Servant to meet you to deliver my message to you,my servant met you & gave you my message. Oga,do you need to see me his Boss?

There is one funny thing they always say:

"You prefer one side"

As if the scriptures contradicts itself.

FxMasterz:
Okay, thanks for the clarification.
Please, Is Jesus King of Earth alone or of Heaven and Earth?

Jesus said:
“All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth." Matthew 28:18

Just as Satan also said:

“I will give you all this authority and their glory, because it has been handed over to me, and I give it to whomever I wish" Luke 4:6

Jesus never denied Satan's claim but told his disciples that it's true! John 14:30

Does that mean Satan owns this planet?

NO its rulership was handed over to him for a period of time just as the rulership of heaven and earth was given to Jesus for a period of time the scriptures clearly says that Satan will be destroyed {Revelations 20:10} while Jesus will hand over to his God and father! 1Corinthans 15:27-28

FxMasterz:
Lol.
My friend, there are more peaceful organizations than the JW. But you see, the child molestation thing has made international news, and have really damaged the reputation of your organization. There are also other sordid facts about your organization that are not good for the ears.
In a nutshell, God is not a God of a religion. God is not moved by religion. Please check the Bible well. God is only moved by your relationship with Him. He is a God of relationships. That's why He is called The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Not the God of any religion. He's the God of those three people who first related cordially with Him, and He's still the God of anyone who.gets intimate with Him through Jesus Christ.

The highlighted are misconstrued lies to blacklist God's Organization but since you choose to believe that's your own cup of coffee what everyone knows is the JWs we have in our area aren't doing such things!

You think these rebels seek clarification?
My brother they are crying bitterly inside because they have lost the most precious friends they once had in God's organization so it's not the GB that's their problem otherwise they could have gotten themselves other religions their complaints here shows their regrets and instead of humbly returning they wants outsiders to join them in their wailing.

Please which religious organization does not have rules binding on members?

Janosky:
I want to make some points very clear.
[b]*1. Every congregation within the vicinity of any tertiary institution campus always record increased number of JWs admitted as undergraduates into the tertiary institution in that locality .
But someone is WAILING
Whatever path you choose, JWs GB no force you.
*2.
Nobody has ever been removed from JWs fold because they chose to further their education in a tertiary institution.

*3
From time to time , Branch Offices still make requests for our fellow JW's with professional experience who acquired their professional skills from tertiary institutions.
This is a positive sign for the merits of acquiring professional training through tertiary education.
*4
The GB is very concerned about the spiritual wellbeing of Jehovah's people whole taking into cognizance the prevailing moral climate in teriary institutions.
*5
Many JW's have benefited themselves immensely & economically by acquiring viable vocational skills that pays their bills without any stress.
The Governing Body (GB) prioritize viable vocational skills (sabificate) more than paper qualifications.
The turn over of graduates from tertiary institutions is on the rise each year.
Yet,the Government continues advocating for viable vocational skills acquisition which the GB prioritizes.
In this part of the world,more often than not, University education is not enough, so to say .
Pls,evaluate yourself & take decision rather than blame the GB.
Shalom .

Johncarlo07:
Ur still contradicting urself.
D crux of dis mata from d beginning, was u insinuating dat women are falling for pastors because ministry is lucrative.
I gave u different instances to disabuse Dat notion, nd u came wit anoda contradictory statement.
I understand u.

I understand you too!

Better!
I will always appreciate your avoidance if you don't quote me so let it just be how each person reason.
Thanks for your time!

bolabizzle:
Maxy baba!

I'm only interested in helping sincere people to reason that what rebellious ones are saying today is exactly what they said about Jesus and his disciples in the first century!

PulsingPurple:
Honestly wish I had enough time and energy on my hand to engage all these talks...

But one this is sure bro, you're not the first here on NL, you won't be the last either.
Many old members have spoken up in the past and as tradition, Max has always been there to drop a counter opinion.

If I were giving free advice I'd advise against wasting time engaging him hoping he'll reason on anything you say.
Everyone who knows him can tell you how he handles conversations, he's predictable enough for me to predict that you'll just end up with another unnecessarily prolonged thread with no key takeaways.
Unless of course you're just there to enforce your points and maybe catch cruise with all disagree-ers.

The most in depth informations I got about JW came from people like you boss, carry on. 🙌

Of course they know me here:

APOPTOSIS:
JEHOVAH'S WITNESS is operating at a different level.
They have been steadfast, resolute and committed.
I hold no grudge against them. They downplay commercialization of churches.
They entertain persecutions a lot, in fact more than several Christian bodies.
Seems in their church everyone is at same level irrespective of your degree, financial acquaintance and contacts.
And it seems they obey the Bible the most:
-They hardly disturb neighbors during prayers.
-They frown at intimidation and flamboyant lifestyles.
-They ensure financial gifts are covered and never displeased at whatever they recieve.
-Their members would make good politicians but they frown at politics
I respect them. I judge based on actions and not what I'm told.

BafanaBafana:
Quite true. JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES are actually one of the few denominations who are still following Christ. Most churches now are headed by motivational speakers who only use the name of Jesus to preach other things. The goal is to attract members to their church and the members will bring the money.
Shikena!

Oye0404:
well said, once had a witness DAT comes around for years, to the levels of these people, and never let them get to you. I have noticed your interactions on NL for years and I see emotional maturity and the way you carry yourself, I have yet to see in the average Pentecostal Christian.

Sirmwill:
I am not a Jehovah Witness person
I am not even a church person
But
I can tell you ,you are saying a lot of truth but
Most people would not accept
So
Don't bother yourself much with arguments 😇

DoctorAyukebot:
You know your scriptures

Mayflowa:
Wow! See Bible scholars! So impressive!

SeniorMan715:
The way you explain and answer questions, sometimes i wonder if truly you are a human or an angel. You know everything.

IykeSent:
This is a deep and insightful explanation of Hebrews 1:5, showing how Jesus is uniquely God's Son not just another angel. I especially liked the connection to the temple and the idea of spiritual sonship through being “born again.God bless you for this

Questionnaires:
You Are One of The Smartest Christians on Nairaland and in Nigeria At Large.

Tayorshd87:
Awesome input 💯
That's true logically

Kingsempires:
I know you and I don't agree on the same Christian doctrine but I grab point in some of your preaching
I learned something on this your comment

Kingsempires:
wow I love this your statement 🙂🙏

Questionnaires:
MAXINDHOUSE is The Only Reasonable Christian That I've Come Across On This Forum That Creates Discourse And Debates Without Trying To Hurt The Emotions of Others No Matter How They Don't Agree With His Philosophy.

CJStarz:
Guy, I just dey reason your talks.
U dey make sense shaaa.
But ur oda brethren wey dey yarn opata here, I go soon reason im matter.
You're trying to prove me wrong in my assertion which I'm beginning to see but that guy is a complete wacko.
Wetin be im name here sef.
Let me check

CJStarz:
Na you wey just convert from Islam be d correct Witness.
Achorlady just dey yarn off point

naturefellow:
Amazing! Thanks for the input. Knowledge added reading it.

Treborblue:
Wow insightful thanks very much

shinaola21:
Perfectly said bro 💯

JimRohn:
Do you really consider DeepSight to be on the same intellectual level as MaxInDHouse or some of the other individuals I engage with here?

Because frankly, MaxInDHouse is among the most intelligent contributors on Nairaland. In contrast, DeepSight does not even qualify for consideration when I rate people based on intellect.

That is precisely why I refuse to bring myself down to his level — instead, I choose to engage with those whose reasoning and arguments are worth my time.

Sojourner2000:
For real... It's hard answering this when I know for sure that the God we are referring to is just an illusion that most humans chose to accept as a reality.
Anyways I wanted to commend you for the hard facts you have been dropping and how you have been tackling responses. I need people like this in real life. Everyone around me is just dumbed down

bixton:
If by your faith, you mean only those of JW then you're no longer of the faith as spoken of by Christ Jesus.

Walahi Talahi you funny pass sabinus!

Jesus promised something you can't do it but the organization doing it as in making it happen among them you want to condemn.

bolabizzle:
You guys should leave max alone. He is one of us. Max, how are you doing? How many people have you turned to become JW since we last spoke?

Many in my neighborhood that you can't see here on Nairaland but see what these ones are saying about God's organization:

APOPTOSIS:
JEHOVAH'S WITNESS is operating at a different level.
They have been steadfast, resolute and committed.
I hold no grudge against them. They downplay commercialization of churches.
They entertain persecutions a lot, in fact more than several Christian bodies.
Seems in their church everyone is at same level irrespective of your degree, financial acquaintance and contacts.
And it seems they obey the Bible the most:
-They hardly disturb neighbors during prayers.
-They frown at intimidation and flamboyant lifestyles.
-They ensure financial gifts are covered and never displeased at whatever they recieve.
-Their members would make good politicians but they frown at politics
I respect them. I judge based on actions and not what I'm told.

BafanaBafana:
Quite true. JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES are actually one of the few denominations who are still following Christ. Most churches now are headed by motivational speakers who only use the name of Jesus to preach other things. The goal is to attract members to their church and the members will bring the money.
Shikena!

Oye0404:
well said, once had a witness DAT comes around for years, truth is,dis guys are so caring and accommodating. lots if misconceptions about dem..

XXLDICK:
They remain the most peaceful Christian denomination.
They do not pay tithes. They are the only Christian denomination yet to be commercialized. They are my favourite.
Cons:
They do not recite the national anthem.
They do not participate in elections.
They do not accept blood transfusion.

freethinker01:
Tho I don't like their disturbance, I'd have to say they're far better than all their Christian tithe whoring counterparts.

boss1310:
The way they are hated makes me to think sometimes they might be the true Christians but I might be wrong.

Deway52:
I am convinced that JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES are the real religion, they do everything in line with the bible.
Na small time remain for me now, I don enter. If everybody in the world is a jw the world would be a better place.

Love800:
I would love to be a JEHOVAH'S WITNESS, because of their gentle life. Relaxed service and programs(not those stressful and loud types), and serenity of their church yard. Infact, its this serenity of their abode that blows my mind!

But the thing that worries me, is their misled teachings. How can you say that we are not going to die, but remain on earth and unite with our love ones and live happily together forever!