₦airaland Forum

werisetogether:
Thanks for your input into this conversation. I appreciate your dedication to the Truth.
The good thing about clearly stating the facts here is that other people are free to read through and make up their minds for themselves.
Unfortunately, anyone who has made up his mind to blindly side haters of the Messiah Jesus Christ will ignore sound reasoning
Glad connecting with you here.
Remain blessed

You are welcome!
He has been creating threads upon threads on this same topic and i often attend to him trying to reason with him but this one is the height of insincerity on his part.

Daniel 9:26 says the Messiah will be put to death but Isaiah said he will reign forever {Isaiah 9:6-7} this means if the Messiah is one person surely he can't fulfill all these prophecies in just a life time.

God bless you!

Dtruthspeaker:
See how you are just moving from post to post to find where to ground your lies.
Was it a foreigner who said let me go and bury my father especially when you read that His mission was Israel?
21 And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.
And secondly, were the Israelites not pagans like the rest of the world or do you say that they were following God?
See, your lies have no place on earth only in your heart

You don't know anything yet you argue blindly always.

Jesus told a Samaritan woman by the well saying:

"You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, because salvation begins with the Jews" John 4:22

Yet Jesus said Jews who are not following him are as good as dead {Luke 9:60} so he wasn't talking about pagans but Jews who are not part of his first set of disciples!

Dtruthspeaker:
Your jws are still the same as these scammers you condemn.

“For this reason I say to you, every sort of sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the spirit will not be forgiven. For example, whoever speaks a word against the Son of man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the holy spirit, it will not be forgiven him, no, not in this system of things nor in that to come" Matthew 12:31-32

Nobody dispute the fact that members of Jehovah's Witnesses aren't humans like people who makes up false religions but one thing makes us UNIQUE: God's Holy Spirit!

So if you keeps on speaking against our gathering and presenting another or a better performing group like Jehovah's Witnesses even though you sinned Jesus said your sins will be forgiven but when you can't present any gathering of imperfect humans who are blameless regarding the accusation raised yet you keep on speaking against Jehovah's Witnesses know today that you are no longer sinning against humans rather you are sinning against the Spirit of God that's working out what you can't see anywhere else apart from among Jehovah's Witnesses! Galatians 5:22-23😟

ZoeInspirations:
Now let's hear from you,what do you think about this highly controversial book of the bible?

Apostle Paul said regarding inspired expressions:
All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work. 2Timothy 3:16-17

So why did God inspire Solomon to pen down the songs?
First of all the Bible teaches us saying:

That is why a man will leave his father and his mother and he will stick to his wife, and they will become one flesh. Genesis 2:24 compare to Matthew 19:5-6

God inspired Moses to write the above because at the sight of Eve Adam became a POET {Genesis 2:23} so when a man chooses to sing praises for his wife's beauty it makes you a complete man just as God created Adam to express himself for the precious gift from God! Proverbs 18:22

No matter what happens between a man and his wife if the man always sings her praises as regards her beauty she will forever feel indebted to him unless if he is violent, disabled or jobless.

ZoeInspirations:
Which school of thought do you belong?

We are JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES!🙂

Context matters!

In the Bible book of Exodus 7:1 we read:

Then the Lord said to Moses, “See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron will be your prophet.

In the Bible book of Psalms 82:1 & 6 we read:

God presides in the great assembly; he renders judgment among the “Gods”:

“I said, ‘You are “Gods”; you are all sons of the Most High.’

In the Bible book of Isaiah 9:6 we read:

‭For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.


In the Bible book of John 1:1 we read:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Apart from the Almighty God all others referred to as God shouldn't be worshiped rather they bear that title as being supreme among their contemporary beings.

The problem most Bible readers do have is their usage of TRINITARIAN versions where translators believe that Jesus is God Almighty!

Dtruthspeaker:
Mathew 8:22, every reasonable person sees that Jesus was referring to sinfilled, pagan people with all their pagan burials who have not yet followed Him.

According to that verse was Jesus talking about Israelites who worships in the same temple like Jesus?

YES or NO!🤔

werisetogether:
To suggest that events that are verifiable even by non-Biblical historians were made up by Roman authorities speaks more of either refusal to do research or just plain mischief...

He deliberately chose to be insincere.

How can someone say those verses are not about Messiah even when Daniel explicitly mentioned the "Messiah will be cut off" Daniel 9:26

The guy later turned against the scriptures claiming it's talking about Isaiah!😟

Dtruthspeaker:
What?
Are you saying that the people who murdered Christ, the prophets, Hitler, Idi Amin, suicide murderers, Ted Bundy and co are all going to come back and live a second time for a thousand years AFTER ALL THE EVILS they have already done which they have not been judged for, which their victims are crying for just is?
What just is is that to give them life again for 1000yrs second chance?

All these are things i calmly learn but its really difficult to grasp if you're not patient.
The people who killed Jesus will be forgiven so they will be resurrected back in Paradise because according to Jesus "............they do not know what they are doing.” {Luke 23:34}[/b]but as for Pharisees who stood their ground to plot evil against Jesus knowing fully well that he's innocent {Matthew 27:4} they gathered false accusers against an innocent man {Matthew 26:59-60} they are WICKED who needs no resurrection! Psalms 9:17

Dtruthspeaker:
"[b]But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.

According to Jesus everyone apart from Jesus' first set of disciples are DEAD {Matthew 8:22} so when Jesus later said "the rest of the dead did not come to life again until the end of thousand years" {Revelation 20:5} Jesus concluded saying "This is the first resurrection"
The first resurrection means only those who will rule with Christ in heaven the 144,000 Born Again Christians because they will be taken to heaven directly so by the time Satan begins tempting those resurrected on planet earth the ones in heaven are problem free! Revelation 12:12

So people who deliberately chose to be WICKED will never be brought back to life because they have nothing good to contribute to life there {Psalms 9:17} but as for the RIGHTEOUS (God's ancient servants) and UNRIGHTEOUS (people who don't know the righteousness of God but lived by their God's given conscience) will be resurrected back to life in Paradise on earth. Act 24:15

In fact when Jesus told that thief saying: "Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise" Luke 23:43 he meant the thief will be adequately cared for in Paradise when Christ's Kingdom reign control planet earth!

Expanse2020:
.

I told you to stop quoting me because it's false religions claiming Christians you can face not true Christians!🥱

So you meant everything we have read in those verses has nothing to do with the Messiah despite all what you've been saying since shey?

It's OK!🥱

MindHacker9009:
Isaiah explicitly calls Israel “my servant” “But you, Israel, my servant,...” Isaiah 41:8
And Isaiah 53 itself can fit Israel's experience. The servant is:
1. Despised and rejected
2. Afflicted
3. Oppressed
4. Suffering unjustly
5. Associated with transgressors
6. Ultimately vindicated
and
7. Afterward receives an exalted position

"he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand. After he has suffered, he will see the light of life and be satisfied; by his knowledge my righteous servant [/b]will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities. Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, and he will divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors." ‭Isaiah 53:1-12 NIV‬

[b]Ezekiel 37:11–12 Israel's “death” and restoration
This is particularly relevant to an Israel-as-servant interpretation:
“Our bones are dried up and our hope is gone; we are cut off.” “Son of man, these bones are the people of Israel.”

Then God says:

“Therefore prophesy and say to them: ‘This is what the Sovereign LORD says: My people, I am going to open your graves and bring you up from them; I will bring you back to the land of Israel.’”

Here Israel says “we are cut off,” yet God subsequently restores them.

So when you connect this passage to Isaiah you are referring to Israel.
And after the 62 weeks, Mes·siʹah will be cut off, with nothing for himself. “And the people of a leader who is coming will destroy the city and the holy place. And its end will be by the flood. And until the end there will be war; what is decided upon is desolations.

Deuteronomy 18:21–22
“And if you say in your heart, ‘How may we know the word that the LORD has not spoken?’ when a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the word does not come to pass, that is the word which the LORD has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.”

Dtruthspeaker:
That is a Lie!
Revelations, Daniel, John all say that the wicked shall be raised to get their judgement of wickedness john 5:29
So stop deceiving yourself and others

and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned. ‭John 5:29 NIV‬

This has nothing to do with what those resurrected did in their past life rather their judgement will be based on what they choose to do after they have learned about Jesus Christ during the 1,000 years of Christ.
That's why Jesus said they are not yet alive until the end of his 1,000 year reign! Revelation 20:5-6

Whoever is resurrected to planet earth will still be tested by Satan to see if such a person can stand up for Jesus despite whatever Satan brings to them! Revelation 20:7-8

It's after that time billions will still follow Satan despite knowing everything about Jesus and enjoying Paradise for 1,000 years so their cases will be judged using what Jesus taught not what they did in their past life before knowing the truth about Jesus! Revelation 20:11-12

So if anyone chooses to be WICKED his or her own judgement will not be delayed because such ones don't need to be present anymore in Paradise but billions who doesn't have the opportunity to know about Jesus like the thief that was executed along with Jesus will be alive in Paradise to enjoy all the blessings until the end of 1,000 year reign of Christ afterwards he will have to prove his loyalty to Jesus before given everlasting life!

How much was the settlement?
Let's know our own percentage first!🥱

johnstin:
That's correct. Wicked people will never come back to life.

This is what Jesus used so many parables to teach his listeners and they all got his message just that the Jewish religious leaders of his days knew very well that most of Jesus' illustration is pointing to them {Matthew 21:45; Mark 12:12} which means after they have lived their lives in the first century they have no portion in the resurrection! Psalms 9:17

As for unbelievers who lived by their God's given conscience as long as they haven't figured out the fine fruit of the true religion they will be spared of the eternal condemnation!

Dtruthspeaker:
Only crooks welcome thieves.

Good!
Oya mention one church where those taking the lead aren't extorting money from members to fund lavish lifestyle apart from Jehovah's Witnesses!🤔

MindHacker9009:
From this passage it's clear that this person will complete his mission the first time. So for your question, NO, I do not agree with you.
"he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand. After he has suffered, he will see the light of life and be satisfied; by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities. Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, and he will divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors." ‭Isaiah 53:1-12 NIV‬

This verse is telling us what the Messiah will accomplish but definitely not in a lifetime.

WHY?

Because Daniel said:

And after the 62 weeks, Mes·siʹah will be cut off, with nothing for himself. “And the people of a leader who is coming will destroy the city and the holy place. And its end will be by the flood. And until the end there will be war; what is decided upon is desolations. Daniel 9:26

So if the Messiah will be cut off with nothing for himself how will he see his offsprings and prolong his days?

We all know that when a person is cut off it means killed and when someone dies we can't say he has nothing to himself if he is survived by children!

So how do you expect him to fulfill all of that if he will be cut off with nothing for himself?🤔

ola20ng:
About 98% of Christian husbands will never allow their wives practice other religions but many Muslim husbands do not care. Yet, Muslims are always labeled as intolerant ones.

Of course that is the AGREEMENT they had before marrying otherwise a Muslim will not tolerate it.
I know a lot of JWs Sisters who has been promised marriage by Muslims telling them they will not be disturbed to practice their faith but since JWs aren't open to such even though such a person goes to Christendom churches and claims BORN AGAIN a JW will never agree to marry him not to talk of someone who practices Islam!🥱

All these we will discuss but first of all do you agree with those scriptures that the Messiah cannot complete his mission once in a lifetime?🤔

MindHacker9009:
First, we need to establish who the Messiah is. To illustrate the reasoning, consider a similar situation involving another religion. Say it is the Ifa religion we are discussing. Will you accept that Ifa priests and worshippers don't know who their Messiah is, and that it was the Europeans who came from Europe during colonisation who had to explain to Ifa priests and worshippers that the son of Ifa, born of a virgin in Abeokuta during colonisation, is their promised Messiah? Who will you believe in this case? The question is about examining how we determine the identity of a promised figure and what evidence should be used. This relates to the principle found in Deuteronomy 18:21–22, which explains that claims made in the name of the LORD should be tested:
Deuteronomy 18:21–22
“And if you say in your heart, ‘How may we know the word that the LORD has not spoken?’ when a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the word does not come to pass, that is the word which the LORD has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.”

Kemical23:
I hope you are also making some cash from the business

The FAKE can't rule out the ORIGINAL so you can't rule out true religion!🙂

I will address this issue but first let us conclude on the point that the Messiah cannot fulfill all messianic prophecies in a lifetime!

Do you agree with what the scriptures says on that note?🤔

MindHacker9009:
The important point of reasoning here is that, if Jesus Christ was truly the promised Messiah, one would expect him to have left behind a written book of his own. The prophets who came before him were instructed by God to record and deliver the messages they received. Therefore, if Jesus was the Messiah, it would be reasonable to expect him to have provided a clear written teaching that would have united his followers throughout history. However, this is not what happened, as his followers have developed different interpretations and traditions over time based on what they are told He said, which cannot be independently verified.
Deuteronomy 18:21–22
“And if you say in your heart, ‘How may we know the word that the LORD has not spoken?’ when a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the word does not come to pass, that is the word which the LORD has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.”

MindHacker9009:
@MaxInDHouse
Many Jews suffered and were cut off under Roman rule in that same era, Jesus Christ of Nazareth wasn't unique in that respect. Suffering and being cut off alone, without a specific claim to being Israel's anointed deliverer being fulfilled, doesn't distinguish one figure from another as the Messiah described in the verse you quoted.

First of all do you agree with these scriptures that the ORIGINAL MESSIAH can't complete his mission once in a lifetime?
Let's settle the matter one by one.

If you agree with those prophecies then we will now deliberate on what period of time could the prophecy be fulfilled regarding the birth of the Messiah.🙂

Dtruthspeaker:
That is preaching and teaching your own version of what you people think is good whereas, it is evil. And that is why people reject you people like abominations.

But they welcome those extorting money from them shey? Matthew 10:22🙂

Kemical23:
if there is anybody who has to be given sense here is you because you are living on a borrowed sense (religion)...
Advice him to stop deceiving the public...

Can you name a race on this planet that has no religion before people started converting to their choicest religion?🥱

Everyone just want to talk because there is fake religion out there so there is no true religion shey?😂

Kemical23:
oga go and take pracetamol, you didn't have any encounter anywhere.. Almost all the pastors uses the same line to deceive they members, encounter this, encounter that..

See EVANGELISM on top ATHEISTM!

Person say hin get encounter but you wan change am for ham like sey nah by force to become atheist!😂

Expanse2020:
Check the the that fit you well..
You are ending up in one unless you repent and do Islam

Please try to restrict your comments to whoever picked interest in your religion and stop quoting me if you are not ready to learn yet.
I don't have anything to do with your religion after i've left it so stop quoting me.
Thanks!

Expanse2020:
Where did Jesus asked you to go to church
Which church does Jesus attended
Which Bible did he read

Blackvsiper
TenQ
Antiislam

First of all the place of meeting religious leaders of Christendom refer to as "CHURCH" is in error so it's not a building that is called "CHURCH" in Bible times rather it means the congregation.

Secondly Jesus gathered his disciples to instruct them so that is what true Christians are doing till today in our place of worship known as KINGDOM HALLS (not CHURCH)

Lastly the scriptures Jesus read wasn't given a name back in his days instead each book was named after the writer it was centuries after Jesus and his disciples have gone that the books were compiled and called BIBLE which means LITTLE BOOKS!

What part of the TANAKH proved that the Messiah cannot complete his mission once in a lifetime?

There are two major prophecies so let's critically consider the two.


Who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed? He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him. He was despised and rejected by mankind, a man of suffering, and familiar with pain. Like one from whom people hide their faces he was despised, and we held him in low esteem. Surely he took up our pain and bore our suffering, yet we considered him punished by God, stricken by him, and afflicted. But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was on him, and by his wounds we are healed. We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to our own way; and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth. By oppression and judgment he was taken away. Yet who of his generation protested? For he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was punished. He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth. Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand. After he has suffered, he will see the light of life and be satisfied; by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities. Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, and he will divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors. ‭Isaiah 53:1-12 NIV‬

Please who among the Jews is Isaiah prophesying about in this chapter?

And before you answer please consider what Daniel also said about the Messiah:


After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the (Messiah) will be put to death and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. ‭Daniel 9:26 NIV‬

Please explain why the Messiah needs to be put to death (killed) so that Jesus of Nazareth wouldn't fit into the narrative?🤔

TRUTH versus FALSEHOOD!

I have heard many people say God just revealed Himself to them personally so the question that comes to mind is:

If God had to reveal himself to someone instead of allowing Jesus' disciples to do the work of preaching and teaching {Matthew 28:19-20} does that mean everyone should wait for God to contact us PERSONALLY so that each person now deals directly with his or her own CHI? 2Corinthians 11:14🙂

MindHacker9009:
The "Torah" is often used broadly, even within Jewish tradition itself, because it holds primary religious and legal centrality, and it's treated as the core around which the rest of Tanakh is read and applied.

Well the issue is much more than you can see because Jacob had twelve sons and when we say "JEWS" we are referring to just three tribes out of the twelve namely JUDAH, BENJAMIN and LEVI.

Now where are the other 9 or 10 sons as Jacob himself turned twelve to thirteen after making Joseph two tribes in Israel?

Well the other ten tribes are lost till today and they are known before they scattered as Samaritans.

Due to what happened to this ten tribes the Jews had to name the first five books separately from the other books because Samaritans only believe in the first five books of Moses as those books came directly from Moses whom they accepted as the only prophet sent to tell them about the arrival of the Messiah!

According to Moses this is what is found written in the Torah:

‭Deuteronomy 18:18-19 NIV‬
I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their fellow Israelites, and I will put my words in his mouth. He will tell them everything I command him. I myself will call to account anyone who does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name.

In view of this prophecy the lady from Samaria who spoke to Jesus of Nazareth said:


“I know that Messiah” (called Christ) “is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us.” ‭John 4:25 NIV‬

So the Samaritans also believe in the Messiah but they only hold onto the first five books of the Bible which the Jews called TORAH.

Hope you now understand why those books were separated as if they needed to be detached from the other books!🙂

Let's put distraction in its place!

Now where most historians and Jews got lost in the puzzle is why could Jesus be the Christ (Messiah) but couldn't fulfill all that was written in the TANAKH about the Messiah in his lifetime?

Well David in one of the Ketuvim (writings) called Psalms wrote:

‭Psalms 110:1-7 NIV‬

The Lord says to my lord: “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.” The Lord will extend your mighty scepter from Zion, saying, “Rule in the midst of your enemies!” Your troops will be willing on your day of battle. Arrayed in holy splendor, your young men will come to you like dew from the morning’s womb. The Lord has sworn and will not change his mind: “You are a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.” The Lord is at your right hand; he will crush kings on the day of his wrath. He will judge the nations, heaping up the dead and crushing the rulers of the whole earth. He will drink from a brook along the way, and so he will lift his head high.

So from the above prophecy the Messiah will serve as both King and High Priest forever!

MindHacker9009:
When the two different genealogies are that of Joseph but not that of your Jesus Christ.

Who is the supposed father of Jesus? Luke 3:23🙂

Let's move on to Genesis 49:10

The scepter will not depart from Judah, neither the commander’s staff from between his feet, until Shiʹloh comes, and to him the obedience of the peoples will belong.

Jacob (Israel) told his sons what will become of them and their descendants in the future and there he told them that headship will not depart from the lineage of Judah (his fourth son) until the Messiah arrives and to him the obedience of the PEOPLES will belong!

PEOPLES here means mankind in general!

MindHacker9009:
Your ignorance coupled with arrogance is the reason you want to come and derail this thread. Better for you to just watch and learn from your nursery school chair. 😂

I love this!

Now prove me wrong if truly you have any knowledge about what you claim.

At least i've shown you from the onset that you don't even know the difference between TORAH and TANAKH.