₦airaland Forum

Arda1000:
yea but it’s funny how religion manages to chokehold people like you

It will always be so because there has never been any human society without a form of worship (religion)
There are two types of religion the true religion and the false religion you must be chokehold by one whether you like it or not! Matthew 7:13-14🙂

Jehovah started creation with just one spirit and they both lived together as a father and his son for untold number of years that is why the Bible says:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. This one was in the beginning with God. John 1:1-2 compare to Proverbs 8:22

Jehovah taught his firstborn son to be a craftsman/master worker and gave him the joy of making other creatures. Colossians 1:15-16; Proverbs 8:24-30

After creating other intelligent beings some weren't obedient faithful and loyal like God's firstborn son {John 8:29} in fact one of them chose to be a God on his own so that he could be another deity to be worshiped beside the true God. The question is who will be working with him or running errands for him {Daniel 7:9-10} since Jehovah is the only Person all angels (spirit creatures) are serving? Isaiah 14:12-14

So to kick start his plans he came down to planet earth and after carefully watching the two intelligent creatures on the earth he decided to confuse the younger being (woman) Satan is aware that Eve knew only what Adam told her so she's is not as knowledgeable as Adam and her man is really fond of her {Genesis 2:23} that's why he targeted the woman! 1Timothy 2:14🙂

The evidence of God's existence doesn't have to be far fetched.
Most dreams come from imagination of things we have heard not the reality!

God doesn't expect us to put our beliefs on dreams related by someone else rather on things everyone can see! Hebrews 11:1

Kushites:
Over 400 million people have had a near-death experience, and have reported that life CONTINUES after the physical death of the body.

EnemyofGod4:
God, Satan, Jesus Christ,Angels and demons, doesn't exist,
There's no reliable, concretable and approvable evidence of their existence.

Who are the living creatures spiritists do contact for voodoo?🤔

To expose your hypocrisy!
If you have to explain some verses for someone to understand your Quran instead of the book to give an answer EXPLICITLY then you are deceiving your own soul!🙂
According to the Bible and what you've been trying to explain from your Quran Adam and Eve were created to live in Paradise (Al Jannah) on planet earth so any right thinking, honest hearted and sincere individual supposed to ask:
Where comes the idea of going to heaven?
Something i have explained over and over but you insisted on getting a single verse in the Bible where heavenly life and earthly life will be explained EXPLICITLY!
That is why i keep asking you to quote a verse in your Quran where answers to questions are found written in the same manner!
So stop being hypocritical and face the truth!🙂

Explore2xmore:
As a diversion from answering your two class claims?

Explore2xmore:
Scripture should be judged by what it actually states, not by conclusions imposed on it.

That is why i asked you to quote where your Quran explicitly stated that earth is the Paradise God put Adam and Eve!😂
If you demand word for word from the Bible what happens to your Quran?🤣

Jesus said:

“Go in through the narrow gate, because broad is the gate and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are going in through it; whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are finding it" Matthew 7:13-14

This means there will be thousands of different religions claiming followers of Christ in later times so to identify the church of Christ you need to carefully check several features otherwise you'll end up condemning all gatherings of worshipers thinking none belongs to Christ.

The true Christians will find you and not the other way around as most of you will just choose any religion you like simply because they are calling Jesus "LORD" Matthew 7:21-23

Josywhyte:
Oga... Stop being evasive. Mention one holy person. Simple question.

Try to be calm otherwise you can't learn a single thing.
Take for instance imagine you and i are living in the first century and someone said there is no holy person just as one Jewish youth responded when his brother told him:

We have found the Messiah (Christ) John 1:45

Nathanael's response is:

Can anything good come out of Nazʹa·reth? John 1:46

So if you don't know the holy ones today instead of asking for the names of individuals that you can't find on Google why not ask what the Bible say will help you to identify them?🤔

Only open-minded individuals could be given the understanding as for wicked people they will continue in darkness?🙂

A spirit son of God wanted the worship that rightly belongs only to God {Isaiah 14:12-14} but since he is in the midst of many angels such intentions couldn't be brought forward to the others until he brought his proposal to God's fleshy children (humans) who welcomed the idea as the couple wanted to be totally independent yet wants to become God over their unborn generation. Genesis 3:1-5

If God destroy the first culprit how will other angels feel when he has not even carried out his scheme?
What about humans?
Would they choose to rebel against their Creator too?
If they decided to follow Satan will their children also do the same?
Who should be blamed if all humans choose to become rebellious against God?
Could God have been vindicated saying He did a fantastic job by creating humans on planet earth?

All these questions needs answers but then time is needed to resolve it as those involved choose their path.

A tyrant wouldn't allow for such rather all those involved would have been killed or locked up somewhere but the Wise One chose to give them all the opportunity to carry out their schemes if it will have any success.

Today it's now several thousands of years and what is the result?

Most people have chosen to be nice and kind when there is no trouble so to make them kill their conscience Satan tightened things making like difficult yet there still remains some who keeps living by their God's given conscience! Job 27:5
That leaves a heavy blow on the face of Satan who claimed that no human will remain loyal in the face of suffering! Job 1:9-11; 2:4-5

Adam and Eve gave birth to imperfect children so none of us can save his life or that of others {Psalms 49:7-9} all the sons of God in heaven (angels) knew very well that for humans to be redeemed from the sin we inherited from Adam we need another father someone who must replace Adam {1Corinthans 15:45} if God created another Adam it simply means God failed at first so God decided to allow Adam raise children and from among them many will stand against Satan.
This sounds impossible to Satan because to him none of Adam's children could resist temptation from him. But to Satan's shocking surprise many proved to be faithful and loyal to God! Hebrews 11:4-34

If God created Adam and Eve on planet earth and that place was the first Paradise there is no sense expecting God to take obedient humans to another destination other than planet earth because that is where God made/designed for humans to live.

The only person who brought the idea of a future heavenly abode is Jesus and he specifically mentioned that he was talking about those who will rule with him and they will not go as humans.

However you are only hiding from this truth because you are ashamed of your book and prophet as none can answer important questions about life and the reward of godliness!🙂

Explore2xmore:
Throughout this entire discussion, the main claim that scripture explicitly teaches two permanent classes of saved believers with separate eternal destinations hasn’t been demonstrated. The verses presented (Genesis 1:26, Genesis 1:28, Psalm 37:29, Luke 20:34–36) describe humanity’s earthly role or resurrection in general. None of them explicitly state two saved classes or two separate eternal destinies.
Adding phrases like heavenly co-rulers or spirit creatures into Luke 20 inserts a framework into the verse rather than showing what the verse itself says.
Whenever the request for an explicit text was repeated, the discussion moved elsewhere instead of producing that verse. The argument may be held as an interpretation, but the direct proof requested still hasn’t been provided.

You are really really funny walahi talahi instead of asking questions you want to make a decision based on what you have no knowledge about.
Well if you must know the nation of Israel has been condemned by the true God so they have no business with the God who sent Jesus to the world!

Josywhyte:
Mention one please.

Ọmọ they are not celebrities o so even if i mention any of them by name you can't know them but why not ask for qualities Jesus said they will possess for us to identify them in the human society?🙂

Josywhyte:
Do we have any holy person in this world?

YES!

Yorimichi:
Like If the curse is not a punishment on individuals, but merely a consequence of Adam's rebellion, then we're still left with innocent people, including infants babies, suffering and dying because of something they never chose. Whether we call it "punishment" or "consequence," the moral issue remains the same.

I have told you earlier that God doesn't know any of us until we choose to be His friend so whether adults or babies we are all enemies from God's standpoint {Psalms 51:1} we must love His standard or leave His planet! Ezekiel 18:31

Yorimichi:
Regarding Ezekiel 18, your explanation is possible, but the chapter's main point is broader: God repeatedly emphasizes individual responsibility. That seems difficult to reconcile with the idea that all humanity continues to suffer because of a single ancestor's act thousands of years ago.

Who will remove the suffering if we are not sure of what caused it?
So for God to remove it and see to it that this will never be repeated we must all agree never to try going back to what Adam did!

Yorimichi:
On John 9, Jesus did more than reject parental guilt. He explicitly rejected the assumption that the man's blindness was caused by someone's sin. That seems to push against the idea that every instance of suffering is traceable to personal wrongdoing.

God didn't inflict suffering rather it started from the day Adam and Eve turned their back on God so the solution lies with complete obedience to God through whatever means He chooses to redeem us.

Yorimichi:
And on the curse itself: if God imposed the curse and has the power to remove it, why allow it to continue for thousands of years? If the purpose is to prove that human rule fails, wouldn't an omniscient God already know that outcome? Why must billions of humans and countless animals suffer through the demonstration?

You keep on going back on what i have told you that God never claim to be Omniscient. The billions you are seeing are nothing but dust to God {Genesis 2:7} so it's after we have been redeemed that God will views us as His children. John 1:11-12

Yorimichi:
Finally, saying that everyone will eventually learn that human rulers fail doesn't fully address the original question. The issue isn't whether human governments are imperfect. The issue is why a just and loving God would choose a system in which untold suffering becomes the means of teaching that lesson. Hope this puts a lit on this.

Well God has set a time when He will put an end to all of these but until then we must humbly seek righteoness from God! Zephaniah 2:2-3

kppo:
A) I have faith because I am a believer
or
B) I am a believer because I have faith

Faith is the assured expectation of what is hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities that are not seen. For by means of it, the men of ancient times had witness borne to them. Hebrews 11:1-2

Faith is only evident through the actions of those possessing it i don't have to declare that i have faith or that i am a believer rather it's observers that should speak about me after watching how i do things in harmony with my brothers and sisters in the faith.

That is why I also, since I have heard of the faith that you have in the Lord Jesus and the love that you demonstrate toward all the holy ones, Ephesians 1:15

Here it's Paul speaking of the faith that Christians in Ephesus demonstrated towards Christ's anointed brothers. Matthew 25:40

Maintain your conduct fine among the nations, so that when they accuse you of being wrongdoers, they may be eyewitnesses of your fine works and, as a result, glorify God in the day of his inspection. 1Peter 2:12

Here Peter is saying even though most people don't welcome faith in Christ and they often speak badly about us {Matthew 5:11-12} these unbelievers will see the fine works of faith among us and become convinced that we surely have something worthwhile among us!

Explore2xmore:
Go acquire more knowledge then we continue.

Even if your prophet is alive today he will be happy to learn from me!😂

Explore2xmore:
Most definitely so qualified by man who composed and collected it. How well you can see!

QUESTION!
Where did God put the first couple?

ANSWER!
Bible: “Be fruitful and become many, fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving on the earth.” Genesis 1:28

QUESTION!
Where will the righteous inherit forever?

ANSWER!
Bible: The righteous will possess the earth, And they will live forever on it. Psalms 37:29

Please quote answers in your book! 😂

Explore2xmore:
Pathetic. What the Bible says or what you say? Funny is that word Bible even in the scripture?

Little books is the meaning of that word and as we all know the Bible contains 66 little books so continue deceiving yourself with lies when your book can't answer any question!🤣

mysticwarrior:
This argument assumes Adam fully grasped the long-term outcomes in the same way we speculate today, but Genesis doesn’t present it that way. It presents a simple act of disobedience rooted in temptation, not a calculated rejection of “future benefits.”

This is what God told Adam:

God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.” Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so. ‭Genesis 1:28-30 NIV‬

So Adam knew he owns everything as God's Son! Luke 3:38

mysticwarrior:
Also, framing Adam as someone who would have ruled the planet as an autonomous “owner” misses the core theological point: in the text, dominion was always under God’s authority, not independent ownership.
Finally, comparing Adam’s fall to Jesus’ temptation oversimplifies both narratives.

The same applies to Jesus everything belongs to his father and God Jesus only stands as heir just as Adam would have been {Genesis 1:26-30} if he didn't fall for the bait! Hebrew 1:2
No wonder Apostles Paul equated both Jesus and Adam! 1Corinthans 15:45

mysticwarrior:
Jesus wasn’t “tested between instant benefits and confusion,” but between obedience and misuse of power very different moral and spiritual contexts.

It's the same thing!
Adam was tested between obedience and power!
This was the offer Satan made to Adam and his wife:
“You certainly will not die. For God knows that in the very day you eat from it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like God, knowing good and bad" Genesis 3:4-5
To Adam and his wife Satan is saying they won't have to answer or rely on God anymore rather they will become Gods on their own: authority over everything that exists!🙂

mysticwarrior:
Wouldn’t it have been foolish for Jesus to give in to Satan’s temptations, knowing fully well that fulfilling His mission would make Him supreme in authority second only to God and that even the devil would one day tremble at His name?

Adam knew the whole planet and everything in it belongs to him yet he fell for the bait.
Imagine if Adam never rebelled against God these are the goodies that awaits him:
(1) As God's Son {Luke 3:38} on planet earth he will answerable only to God while all others takes instructions from him.
(2) He will control all the resources on planet earth as the one given the power to act as owner of all things. Genesis 1:28
(3) He would have lived till today as a youth who is highly respected by everyone on this planet.
But despite this future prospects Adam fell for Satan's bait so Satan believed Jesus could also be confused as to choose between instant benefits and what he had to suffer before earning!🙂

Explore2xmore:
Still deflecting? Introducing idolatry too?

Next time don't challenge what the Bible says because it's not just a book fabricated by some self acclaimed prophet!🤣

mysticwarrior:
And you expect Jesus Christ who has already lived and see all the beautiful things in heaven to fall for that kind of temptation?

⅓ of other heavenly beings fell for Satan's proposal. Revelation 12:4
So Satan believed Jesus is not different because Jesus is also one of God's sons!

Explore2xmore:
Excellent intellectual response in reverse
Why make it that to understand scripture you loose the rational ability?

Surely you must bow to the Bible and call it "SCRIPTURES" because its inspired word of the true God but that your book is just man-made up stories that's why you can't quote any answer directly from it.

Meanwhile there still remains no verse in that your book regarding where the first human couple were created your book leaves room for different interpretations that is why you too ended up just like most Muslims saying:

Explore2xmore:
Quran 54:54–55 states that the righteous will be in gardens and rivers, near a Sovereign, Perfect in Ability. It does not specifically say this is the same heaven from which Adam was sent down.

Where was Adam living before he was sent from heaven?🤣

Euthiopian traditional religion NOT CHRISTIANS!🙂

Yorimichi:
That view raises a few questions. If God sees all humans merely as extensions of Adam's punishment until some future point, why does the Bible repeatedly speak of individuals being judged according to their own actions even now? For example, Ezekiel 18 explicitly says, "The son will not bear the guilt of the father."

When God brought the Israelites from Egypt to the promised land He told them that their wrongdoings will affect their children {Exodus 20:5} so wicked ones among them concluded that they will live anyhow they choose since it's their descendants that will pay for their blunders so God sent Ezekiel to correct their wrong thinking that each wicked person will be punished for his errors. What God meant initially is that when a person chooses to be evil his children will know and learn a lesson not to follow his footstep but when any of his children, grandchildren up to the fought generation chooses to follow his footstep then God will bring back the error of their great grandfather upon such one.

Yorimichi:
Also, if people today "deserve whatever happens to them" simply because they descend from Adam, then suffering, disease, abuse, and the death of infants would be punishments inflicted on individuals who never personally chose Adam's rebellion. That seems difficult to reconcile with the idea of a just judge who does not punish children for their parents' sins.

God is not punishing us for Adam's sin rather the curse brought upon the planet remains until God's Kingdom (government) begin. So until then the ground remain cursed

Yorimichi:
Romans 5 does teach that Adam's sin affected humanity, but it does not necessarily follow that every tragedy that befalls a person is something they deserve. In fact, Jesus rejected that assumption when discussing victims of disasters and people born blind (Luke 13:1–5; John 9:1–3).

Jesus answered the question based on what those people asked:
“Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, so that he was born blind?” John 9:3
It's Adamic sin which brought a curse upon the planet that's affecting us not the sin of our parents God only punishes a wicked person who chooses to follow the footstep of his wicked ancestor.

Yorimichi:
Again how can you claim to understand the standpoint of God?

A diligent study of the Bible explains it when God cursed the ground everyone is affected unless you are not living on this planet and the curse came as a result of Adam's rebellion.
So when God later promised to bless the planet {Psalms 67:6-7} He is talking about the time when His own government will reign in all the earth! Matthew 6:10

Note how the Psalmist put this words:

The earth will give its produce; God, our God, will bless us. God will bless us, And all the ends of the earth will fear him. Psalms 67:6-7

By that time all inhabitants of planet earth would have come to know that it's wrong to choose humans as rulers over us! 1Samuel 8:10-18

Yorimichi:
If God thinks deeply before acting, then there must be a good reason for animals suffering, children dying, and entire populations enduring misery. Simply saying God has the power to do it doesn't answer why it is morally right for those who never chose the actions being punished.

From God's standpoint Adam is the only human being punished you and i are strangers to Him until we gain perfection then He will start dealing with each person according to his or her deeds. Today whatever happens to us is like Adam still suffering for what he brought upon himself. Romans 5:12
He promised to give each honest hearted and sincere individual a chance to live in Paradise for 1,000 years where there won't be death or suffering it's after the 1,000 years that God will start dealing with each of us as an individual but for now we are all children of the rebellious man Adam who deserves whatever happens to them!

Yorimichi:
Also, if he truly isn't omniscient then how does he prophecy about the future and how is it so certain each and every one of his prophecies will surely come to pass 🤷🏽😏

God has all the power to do whatever He wants what most people do get wrong about Him is His way of judging matters. He is not power drunk like humans who doesn't think before they act simply because they have the ability God thinks deeply before acting on issues.
All things both visible and invisible were created by Him {Revelation 4:11} so He can take away the energy sustaining them at will!

When you hide your face, they are terrified; when you take away their breath, they die and return to the dust. ‭Psalms 104:29 NIV‬

Explore2xmore:
What should be activated is someones intellectual ability for proper comprehension.
Luke 20:34–36 is about resurrection generally showing those in this age marry, but those worthy of resurrection do not die.

So now you want to interpret Bible shey?🤣
Ọmọ go and rest this is not your book!🤣

Yorimichi:
Brotherly doesn't that seem cruel, inhumane and unjust I mean that still means innocent creatures are being punished for someone else's actions. If a human ruler cursed an entire planet and caused billions of animals to suffer because of one person's mistake, we would call that unjust. Why should the same standard not apply to God? And if God chose to curse the ground, then the suffering of animals is ultimately a result of God's decision, not the animals' actions. They had no free will in the matter, no understanding of the command, and no opportunity to choose differently.

The planet and everything on it was designed for the pleasure of Adam who is God's son {Luke 3:38} so from God's standpoint they are Adam's properties they don't have such value before God unlike their owner who is under punishment.
Read what God's heavenly Son uttered regarding other creatures:

"So have no fear; you are worth more than many sparrows" Matthew 10:31

So don't view any other creature as man because from God's standpoint they are just like man's properties! 🙂

Yorimichi:
But that still doesn't explain why innocent beings suffer. You don't see it that way ? 😏
If suffering and death entered the world because humans misused their free will, why do animals suffer from disease, predation, starvation, parasites, natural disasters, and extinction? Animals didn't choose to disobey God, don't understand moral laws, and aren't moral agents.🫠
Why should creatures incapable of sin bear the consequences of a problem they didn't create?

All the creatures were placed under the control of Adam (man) on planet earth so when the ground is cursed all living creatures on the planet suffers!


To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’ “Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat food from it all the days of your life. ‭Genesis 3:17 NIV‬


From that moment the ground is filled with negative effects affecting everything on planet earth!

Discipline your children, and they will give you peace; they will bring you the delights you desire. ‭Proverbs 29:17 NIV‬


How were children of this generation raised?

Both parents, religious leaders, elders in the community and high officials raised their children to become greedy and selfish. When God's word taught us to be contented with whatever we have influencers teaches them to become rich at all cost.
So this generation is reaping what they sowed.
With regards to security this is what the true God has to say:


But since you refuse to listen when I call and no one pays attention when I stretch out my hand, since you disregard all my advice and do not accept my rebuke, I in turn will laugh when disaster strikes you; I will mock when calamity overtakes you— when calamity overtakes you like a storm, when disaster sweeps over you like a whirlwind, when distress and trouble overwhelm you. Then they will call to me but I will not answer; they will look for me but will not find me, since they hated knowledge and did not choose to fear the Lord. Since they would not accept my advice and spurned my rebuke, they will eat the fruit of their ways and be filled with the fruit of their schemes. For the waywardness of the simple will kill them, and the complacency of fools will destroy them; but whoever listens to me will live in safety and be at ease, without fear of harm.” ‭Proverbs 1:24-33 NIV‬

Yorimichi:
If God isn't omniscient, then that creates an even bigger problem for your argument. How can He be certain that His plan will succeed, that evil will ultimately be defeated, or that His future promises will come true?
You can't appeal to prophecy and God's ultimate victory while also claiming He doesn't know the future. At that point, God's success becomes a hope rather than a certainty.

As the Creator of all things nobody can stop Him but when it comes to intelligent creatures He has given them freewill so they can choose to obey or disobey Him that is why He promised to destroy all opposers of His works! Psalms 37:7-11🙂