₦airaland Forum

Jenwitemi:
What has conspiracy theories got to do with this topic, mazaye?

Many things Jenwitedem. . . .

FXKing2012:
Stop deceiving yourselves there is no such thing as aliens from other planets, such assertion is not supported in the Bible.

There is much more to life than the myths and legends found in the bible. . . .The bible supports stories like talking donkeys, a man living inside a fish for 3 days, stars fighting along side humans, man parting the sea with a stick, sun standing still etc. . .

Interesting topic, but its difficult to differentiate reality from conspiracy theories when it comes to topics like this. . .

So what if he is a muslim?. . .Personally I believe Obama is an agnostic or a closet atheist. . .

tbaba12345:
If God is the creator of the Universe, It also means he is the source of all knowledge existent in the Universe> Meaning your knowledge which comes as a result of study is already known to the creator:

“God is Independent of (all) creatures.” Qur’an 3:97

The cause or creator must also be transcendent, this means that the cause of the universe must exist outside of and apart from the universe. Since this being exists apart from the universe it must be non-physical or immaterial, if it was material then it would be part of the universe.

The word universe actually encompasses all that exists, has existed, or will exist. That means that anything that is claimed to exist outside the universe is actually claimed to exist outside existence. If God lives outside the existence, that means, rather simply, he doesn’t exist, no?

tbaba12345:
I think your problem lies with your understanding of Islam,

First of all, Sharia law is only applicable to muslims, Even in an islamic state , Non-muslims can Judge by their own law.

2. No-one wants to impose Islam on you:: There is no compulsion in Religion.

There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in taghut and believes in God has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And God is Hearing and Knowing. (Quran 2:256)

3. Learn about Islam the right way,

What is the punishment for apostasy in islam if there is no compulsion in religion?. . .A religion where its God(Allah) is said to have told his followers in their scriptures that he dislikes the unbelievers can not promote peace, after all the alleged creator of the universe dislikes them(infidels). . .

[quote author=Busy_body link=topic=879488.msg10282672#msg10282672 date=1330338057]^^^

Here we go again with all these dumb asinine arguments

As if the foetus is just there waiting for the 9 months it takes to pop out?

As if only the foetus undergos hormonal changes and it does not affect the woman too?

Even if there was no God, how can it be morally right for an animal to kill its young just because it is an inconvenience, albeit an invited inconvenience at that, or abi dem mistakenly spray the s'perm on the woman/set the dangerous toto trap for the man to mistakenly fall in joystick first ni,  Mschewww.[/quote]You are yet to address that fact that at least 1 in 5 pregnancies ends up in abortion naturally. . .If the unborn fetus will make her life worse then its better to get rid of it. . . .Its her personal choice to keep the baby or abort it, if the fetus is a person as you claim it will not need her body to survive. . .The fetus depending on the level of development is just an assemble of cells that will develop into a human being if all conditions are suitable. . .

oohunt:
Who says abortion will not bring fire and brimstone from God? ? ? ? Wait until judgement day. Every bad deed has a consequence believe it or not. This one, this a GRAVE ONE. Abortion is a sin, it is murder!!! You have no right to take a person's life. You have already done the deed by conceiving this child. All of you in support of abortion be ready to answer to God on the last day that you supported the unfair killing of an innocent, blameless, spotless creation of God.

So a fetus is a living person abi? If its a living being then why does it require a woman's body, if a fetus is a living being then sperm cells are also living beings. . .However, let's look at a very common phenomena called miscarriage. According to reports, 20% or 1 in 5 pregnancies end in a miscarriage. There is no definite explanation to why this happens, but they have found many different reasons for it. Sometimes the fetus is recognised as a hostile cell and killed by the mothers immune system, or sometimes there is an incompatibility between the blood types of the mother and unborn child that makes life impossible etc.

But it gets worse than this. According to some studies, there are actually a far higher number of miscarriages. Most of them happen so early that the woman never realizes she was impregnated, like after a few days. This makes some people think that as much as 40% or 50% of all potential pregnancies ends up in miscarriage. . . .Since that is the case then is very OK to say that your God is the greatest lover of abortions. . . .

@OP, having a child definitely changes your life. I would advise you to keep this pregnancy, but prepare your mind for the rigorous journey. The man that wants to marry you, if he truly loves you then he would accept you with the pregnancy.

And what if no man comes here way because of the pregnancy?. . .I have seen it happen to many ladies. . .

Islam is more a religion of justice as the OP puts it. . . .Nothing wrong with that any way, but it can hardly be characterized as a religion of peace. . .

Very tight situation. . .

Keep the baby and you will be faced with the chance of being a single mother for the rest of your life, the man responsible might not accept the baby cos he will assume he used a condom and condoms are supposed to protect against pregnancies. . .If he is a married man then it might be worse. . .You won't need all that drama. . .

You said you are in your late 20's. . .Age is not on your side since you are in Nigeria and you just have to accept that reality, before you know it you will be 30 and a single mum with lots of baggage, no average Nigerian man will like to have you as a wife with a child out of wedlock at you age(Nigerian reality). . .If you are willing to go ahead in life as a single mum(cos the probability of you being a single mum for the rest of your life is high) then keep the baby, if not abort it and move on. . .Life is too short. . .

^^

Saw the pics, what a lovely woman you had, sorry for your loss. . .

InesQor:
About the genealogies, Matthew was simply following a Jewish tradition by naming the people that God "lined up" to bring forward Jesus. Not biologically or medically, but by tradition that's all. Do you think they didn't know that those names in the two genealogies were clashing? Lol

Before, the normal christian explanation for the conflicting genealogies was that one is the genealogy of Mary while the other is for Joseph, when they realize that the explanation holds no water at all they are now coming up with this as an explanation, eh?. . . .Shifting the goal post is what it is called. . . .No where does it state that Matthew was following any Jewish tradition, you only made the claim without providing any evidence. . .Which tradition was Luke following?. . . .

@OP
Shut up and get out, as if your Koran is any better. . . .

The slaves of Allah should produce pictures and STOP peddling lies . . . .The same vanguard news paper reported that a man turned into a moto bike some time last year. . .Nigeria and its stup[i]i[/i]d and very unprofessional journalist that rely on hear say news from beer palour joints. . .

oc2fish:
Some years ago in Gashua Yobe State one high ranking
Imman died, each time he is buried after two to three days
the body will be seen on the ground that is the ground refuse
to accept the body. The process of burying him was done
several times but the body refuse to stay inside the ground.
The family finally bought an old house put him in the house
and collapse the building on him, that was how he was buried.
A COP MEMBER ACCOUNT  IN (1999)

Lies, where is the video recording of this LIE?. . . Your story remains a lie until you provide evidence. .STOP bandying lies and urban legends. . .

tbaba1234:
Having a rational discussion with an open-minded atheist, 

The problem with some atheists is that they are unwilling to engage, fixed ideas:: The religious atheists,

Proving a creator isn't that hard,

No, you can't prove that there is a creator of the universe, you can only provide logical arguments to support that assertion. . .Many believe that the universe has many creators and have provide logical arguments for that as well, no body can prove anything when it comes to the existence of the creator or creators of the universe. . .Even scientist have logical explanations for a universe that requires no creator. . .You can't prove anything you can only put forth arguments and explanations. . .

tbaba12345:
Come on!! There are easier ways to refute the atheists,

What are the easier ways?

^^

No, i really think you need help. . .

^^

OK, Roger. . .

buzugee:
with your mindset you cant make it into heaven. heaven will be an orderly and patriachal society where the man goes out to hunt and gather the food while the woman stays at home to look after the kids. there will be no office jobs in heaven. there will be no corporate world. the work will be farming, fishing, hunting for the men and making clothes and looking after the kids and cooking for the women. if you think that is too chauvinistic for you, then the lord will not admit you in. you know what the problem is ? you think you are a white man because your spirit is entrenched in his system of equality of the sexes, womens rights, the woman can drink as much if not more than men, women can be cops arresting men and beating men down etc etc etc. all this foolishness is heathenistic and is the way of the heathens. listen brother, you better learn to adjust your mind to the heavenly way of thinking or you will be left behind by the messiah.

. . . .Na wah ohhh. . .

Deepsight are you saying that the pyramids were built by ancient aliens?. . .Is that your position? Really?. . .

Deep Sight:
Hmm, ati gbo. My question is, in light of all the writings, is it tenable to say that Moses, Jesus and Daniel, never existed? I hope you know that aside from the four canonical gospels, Jesus had been wriiten about in a great many other non-canonical gospels? What level of fantasy would permit that? Esp as he is not described as Posiedon or other such?

I believe that there is a man behind the Jesus legend, just as there is a man behind the Mohammed legend and other religious figures and Legends. . . .I have read some materials about the mythical Jesus proponents, I don't care much about their position but they do have some very valid points. . . .Firstly, EVERYTHING we know about Jesus were NOT written by any body who knows him personally or have ever meet him in person. . . .Everything about the Jesus stories were written by unknown men very long after the character died. . . .

Joagbaje:
There's no historical conflict. For example . Mattew and Luke gave the different lineage . Luke gave the blood line through mary Mattew gave through Joseph

Where does it say so in the bible?. . . . .This is just the false excuse that apologist love to bandy about. . .

Deep Sight:
Why is it that many atheists are of the view that in acknowledging historical texts, books in the bible should be exempted? For example, when an atheist disputes teh existence of Jesus, he will demand that one should provide him with sources outside of scripture. Is this a reasonable demand? Are scriptural texts not themselves ancient writings which record many well known facts?

Discuss?

The bible is a collection of stories from older civilizations with a new twist. . . . . .Nothing more, nothing less. All of the books were written when there were no genre life fiction or real life, all were written when literacy was only for the elites . . . .A lot of the books were written long after the events they recorded, example the book of Daniel. . . Scriptural texts are ancient text with a twist and a purpose, they are NOT historical books because they are heavily salted and filled with mythology and superstition which can not be separated from reality. . .The stories in scriptures may contain the names of places and real people but doesn't make the stories true, just as than the real places in the Greek myths are not evidence for Hercules.

Remember Troy. . . The city was once thought to be mythical but was later found by archeologist, does that mean that all the Gods talked about by the people are real?. . . . . The "Odyssey and the Iliad" dealt with a city that was supposed to be a myth. It was found as well. Now because it was found, does that make Athena, Poseidon, Odysseus, Circe and the other Gods, monster and people real?

^^
The best explanation by many is that IT'S A MYSTERY. . . .One minute they are telling you to come an UNDERSTAND their God, the next minute its a mystery. . . .

Martian:
I was talking to a friend of mine who's a christian and she was going on about how "God is love" or whatever. Then, I brought up the absurdity of "god" by referring to the story of Jephthah and the look of horror that came on her face was priceless. I kind of felt bad lmao. Needless to say, she buried her head in the sand and piled more sand on it.

They claim god is love because of the claim that god sacrificed himself to himself to save humanity from his wrath. . .Even the Jews that came with the concept of Yahweh never claim that he is love. . . .

theosci:
@mazaje << That is a bit of a misconception of Christianity, while some do believe in this, it is not what I believe or what my denomination believes. I believe that a person is good because they desire to be more like God. We believe that God has written the law of love on our hearts and that we do what it right, not out of fear, but because we actually want to. God does not operate out of fear and manipulation, that is Satan's domain. God operates out of love.

Religion is based entire on fear of the unknown. . .Believe in our version of god and its stories or end up in hell or be condemned. . . . .If the character you are referring to is the one written about in the bible then am sorry to say that you don't really know what you are talking about. . . .

theosci:
There are some that would say that atheists only believe the way they do because they've given up on other religions and have nothing to believe in anymore. I've heard so many atheists be defensive about what they believe, but what I've never really heard is why.Maybe it's because people don't tend to ask. So I need to ask. Why? Like I said, I'm not here to judge. I'm just simply here to listen and to understand without judgement. For anyone who is religious, I truly respect you and your devotion to your faith. However, this is not a place to debate whether atheism is true or not. So I would greatly appreciate it if you kept those thoughts to yourself. This is a topic for understanding, not debate. So for now, I'm listening.

I have stated why, my reasons might be completely different from another atheist. . . .

@ OP. . .I will try my best to answer some of your queries. . . .I will pose some questions to you and will expect you to answer them as well. . .I have had this discussion with deepsight and will copy most of what I wrote to him here. . .You can follow the discussion here. . . .https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-441220.0.html

theosci:
I want to know from anyone who is an atheist why they believe the way they do. I'll admit that I am a christian, but my purpose in asking this question is not to judge or argue. Rather I just want to understand why it is you believe the way you do.

OK. . . .I believe what I believe because after years of study, research with an OPEN mind, I realized that all religions and Gods were created by men. . .All religions are nothing but man made culture. . . .

If there is no god than what is the purpose of life? Is there any?

The purpose of life IMO is to strive to fill each of the days we have to spend here on earth (hours, and minutes) with meaning by meaning I mean a sense of purpose, belonging, happiness and direction. . We should strive to fill them with learning and gaining wisdom and trying to make our lives better with the knowledge and wisdom we have acquired, with compassion for the less fortunate, with love and tolerance for friends, strangers and family, with doing any job we want to do or are supposed to do very well, with fighting against evil and obscurantism, to protect our  environment, planet and all the other animals that we share it together with and YES, with enjoying sexxxx, TV, good food, arts, sports, parties, cars, modest luxury, and other fascinating stuffs that life has to offer which make being alive worthwhile and pleasant. . .

One thing that if find absurd with the theistic argument is that life has to be everlasting for it to be meaningful  . . .Why should life have to be everlasting to be meaningful? It smacks of monumental egotism. Surely there is something monstrously egocentric in thinking that my life is of such transcendent significance that I should be an exception to cosmic laws, that my ego should survive when, animals, planets, stars, and even galaxies are no more. Now tell me what the purpose of life is with God?. . . .

Is there a point to being good or bad? Is it merely knowing the truth or something more?

It seems you have no concept of disinterested goodness, there is a point to being good. . .I know it might sound too optimistic to expect people to be good without a carrot and stick. I know the usual bribery that religions have to offer. What can atheists say to the religious people that have the "What's in it for me?" attitude when admonished to be good? What can atheists offer to compare with the bribery of heaven and the terrorism of hell?. . . .An atheist can not offer all these imaginary promises because they are NOT necessary for a person to be good, Goodness or evil has NOTHING to do with spirituality, religion or God.

Why then should a person be good, because being good and living virtuously is the only way to a fulfilled and self actualized life. By living virtuously we sustain those vital social relations friendship, family, community without which life is solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, dangerous and short. Vice leads to misery. Man is a social and political animal who can sit back and self reflect on his action what ever it is, Its good to do good and avoid evil because goodness sustains us all, and evil destroys us all if left unchecked. . . .A society with love and good virtures, is better than a society of war and endless vices. . .I live in a completely atheist society and it is by FAR more moral than Nigeria which happens to be one of the most religious countries in the world. . .

Do you believe that we simply live and die? If so, what is the purpose of success, advancement, gain, and discovery if we just simply die anyway? Our sun will not last forever and then it too will be gone. When that happens, what will it all have been for? What is the point of loving, giving, freedom, and the pursuit of happiness if we all die and are erased from existence forever and eventually forgotten? There must be something that makes you want to believe in this.

YES, we live and simply die, there is ABSOLUTELY no evidence what so ever for an afterlife, nobody has ever provided any evidence to show that human consciousness survives bodily death. . .There are stories, mythologies and fantasies about life after death but non of them is based on reality, all are based on wishful thought. . .The specter of eternal reward or punishment is of no use to me since there is no evidence to show for any of the bogus hypothesis. . . .Besides, all the efforts of fire and brimstone preachers have not succeeded in making heaven or hell real for most people. The fear of a miserable life in the here and now seems a better motivator for doing good or bad.

Why should we show love? Because generosity ultimately promotes happiness. If I display love and generosity towards you there is that tendency that you will reciprocate that gesture towards me, If I display evil to you, there is also that tendency that you will do the same to me, that is the basic human way of interaction, And that is how human beings function, Our ability to self reflect our actions towards others helps us to evolve or morals and way of life and makes us to be more accommodating and tolerant. A society with love and good virtures, is better than a society of war and endless vices.

The purpose of doing what I stated above is that it provides life with meaning. . . .Do you love your family because some supernatural force told you to love them, or do you appreciate your environment because any God told you to do so?. . . .I just don't understand what you are trying to say. . .What has God got to do with loving your family, and others around you?. . . .I try to be good to people around me because doing good it self is good. . .People should try to do good because doing good is a good thing not because of some undefined spirituality or God that serves no purpose in reality for me. . . . What meaning does eternal life add to the life you are leaving now? Why should some one be good only because he is afraid of some eternal punishment?. . . .Who then is better off, a person that does good because good is good enough or a person that does good only because he is afraid?. . . . .

There is nothing peaceful about the religion of "peace". . . .

What is it about the Quran that makes many muslims violent? I have been following the Quran burning news by the americans on one of their militart bases in Afghanistan and the violent rage it has caused all over the islamic world . . . .Why is it that when ever the Quran is desecrated either knowingly or unknowingly muslims all over the world go gaga screaming blue murder and calling for blood to flow?. . . .WHY?. . . .What are the proper ways to dispose of the Quran so that non muslims can know to avoid fuher blood letting by muslims so happen to be practicing the "religion of peace". . . . .

"They should leave Afghanistan rather than disrespecting our religion, our faith," Hakim said. "They have to leave and if next time they disrespect our religion, we will defend our holy Quran, religion and faith until the last drop of blood has left in our body."

The same taliban destroyed some Buddhist temples and statures when they came into power and no body screamed blue murder and requested for heads to role. . .

Joagbaje:
Yes he's a prophet. Check out his prophecy:

[flash=400,300]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bahr5FjX7iY&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/flash]

DELUSION AT ITS FINEST. . . . . .PATHETIC!!

tbaba1234:
I apologise for derailing the thread:

Kay17, mazaje, obi1kenobi

That is because you know next to nothing about it::
You can't learn about islam from non-muslim sources and poorly translated hadiths::
and you can't take the actions of some muslims  and project it on a civilization.
you just need to go to the earliest Muslim sources to verify what i say.

On the topic

My argument on this thread is simple:: Whilst secular societies have enjoyed success in many areas, i would argue that it is not total success:: Our African values are rooted in our beliefs, adopting western/secular systems of governance has been largely unsuccessful on the African continent so far.

Secularism and liberalism will not work for every society and maybe the democratic system of governance (at least as adopted by the west) is not best for Africans:: Maybe we need to develop is system that is rooted more in our value system.

My problem with secular liberalism is that any thing goes as long as there is a social consensus:

That is not objective morality and can be used to perpetuate untold evil:;

Political liberalism has created this problem due to its principle of neutrality.

According to this principle, the best conception of the ‘good life’ will emerge due to the assumption that individuals will make the best choices on how to live their lives. The main issue with this is that it does not take into account the effect of influential structures in society and ignores the influence of those who have the power and resources to propagate their version of the ‘good life’.

The implications of this are that a negative conception of how to life our lives can become the norm due to these influential structures. For example the materialistic, “bling bling” and “what’s in it for me” culture dominates the market place of competing values that our youth immerse themselves.

Every model a society chose to live by has its advantages and disadvantages be it secular or religious. . . .The best societies today remain the secular societies and they remain so for a reason. . . .