₦airaland Forum

davidylan:
Except to those who wish to decieve themselves, there is no such problem. the bible is crystal clear on what a christian should be. Read it.

What or who is a Christian according to the bible?. . . . . . .

Purist:
@davidylan:

Only those who seem to be in unison on doctrinal injunctions are regarded as true to the rest who believe same.  Others are false.   And based on that, many will regard even you - davidylan - as a false Christian.  At the end of the day, we're left with the "Christianity is a personal relationship, only God knows those who worship him in truth and in spirit" cliche.  And herein lies the problem with determining who a "true Christian" is.

Davidylan keep blowing hot air when in reality he does not know what he is talking about. . . .A lot of Christians here have called him a blasphemer, and I know others that believe he is not really a Christian, he like them has tagged others as unbelievers because of how they chose to interpret the bible. . . . . .On whose authority does he keep declaring that others are not truly Christians or not truly saved? Once you don't subscribe to davidylan's personal delusions then you are not truly a Christian. . . . .And he expects any body to take him seriously, what a deluded blow hard. . . . .

davidylan:
Because humans are not all robotic thinkers and will process things subjectively. Is there a universal agreement on the theory of relativity? Does that invalidate it?

rhino must be proud of you.

Another absurd joke, I thought you guys claim to have some external force(holy spirit) that lives inside of you and helps you to explain and understand(teach) what is written in the bible, is it the same holy spirit that is sending very different and conflicting messages to you guys, I see VERY sincere Christians who lay claim to the holy spirit argue most of the time. . . . . .So what is it with the holy spirit sending different messages to different people?. . . . .

davidylan:
Wonder how many of them know where the book of Micah is in the bible. Oh well . . . if you bleat long enough it might just be true.

Now its about the book of Micah, eh?. . . . . . .You don't know the bible better than any body here, you can only continue to self project yourself as God and continue to claim that who ever disagrees with your own personal interpretation or opinion of the bible is on the wrong path. . . . .Any way keep on keeping on cos that's your problem not mine. . . . .

davidylan:
There you go . . . he dismisses my notion on the basis that there is no "universal christianity" then proceeds to tar ALL christians with the same brush on the basis of HIS OWN definition of who a christian is.

lol these guys are jokers.

The REAL jokers are you guys since you profess things that are completely out of your own making and ascribe it to some external source. . . .Many Christians, think that those who are not  "born again" (a term whose meaning does not have universal agreement among various Christian traditions) cannot possibly understand the bible.  In fact, many such "believers" eschew "Biblical scholarship" and believe that Jesus or the holy spirit (which often such believers claim is Jesus living "inside of them" will give them particular insight into the scriptures, if that is true then why the endless confusion and disagreements even amongst VERY sincere Christians?. . . . .

davidylan:
This is irrelevant. There is no need for a universal agreement on the bible, all we request is that atheists who bloviate so much about "understanding the bible" show us that they do ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND it.

Is this a joke or what? I will state it over and over again that the atheist understand the bible better than the average Christian, most Christians, regardless of their particular traditions, come to the bible with a basic set of operating assumptions.  Namely, that God is holy, all powerful all knowing, and in no way has to answer to us mere mortals.  Secondly, that we humans are depraved  that is sinful "to the core" and therefore not capable of understanding the transcendent God on on our own so we need some kind of external source to help us understand. Christians themselves do not understand the bible if we are to go by what you are trying to say, since there is NO universal acceptable standard for understanding the bible at all. . . . .I very much understand the bible and I have argued with so many Christians over what is written in the bible and found out that they are mostly trying to defend their own church traditions over what is actually written in the bible. . . . .

Uyi Iredia:
a reason for that is b'cos the Homo Sapiens is subjectively objective _clarify it urself >>> this 'subjective objectiveness' is
not immune to science_talkless philosophy >>> it can be argued that there are as many 'isms' as there are humans >>> dichotomies,
'confusions' & violence on the part of 'Christians' >> (i'm equally wary of the word for the reason u advocate) >>> do not consititute
'sufficient proof' that Christianity >>> and (taking it a step further) God is 'pure'   nonsense

I brought this up because Christians like claiming that the atheists do not understand the bible as if there is a standard or universal criteria for understanding the bible, the fact is there is NO such thing because the Christians themselves are yet to fully agree on what the teachings of the bible are. . . .I repeat there is NO universal Christian doctrine and Christians just go about using the bible to create and portray the picture of the God they want others to believe in. . . . .The Christians themselves are yet to agree on what is figurative, metaphorical or allegorical inside the bible and davidylan is there talking about the atheist not understanding the bible. . . . .I laugh in koine greek

davidylan:
absolutely untrue. Just wearing the label "christian" does not make you one. I would expect "once ardent" christians to at least have a basic understanding of the bible . . . i dont see any on display.

So what makes one a Christian? Davidylan's defination of what Christianity is supposed to be? A Christian is any one that believes in Jesus and abides by the teachings of the bible which is sometimes contradictory, There is NO universal Christianity because Christians pick and choose what they want out of the bible to create a God that agrees with their personal wants and desires, every body is just making things up in accordance to their personal beliefs and opinions. This is the reason why there are over 30 thousand sects within the Christian body all claiming monopoly of knowledge of the bible. A simple look at how Christians behave by picking and choosing what they want will tell any objective person that it's all pure nonsense. . . . . .

what a complete joke. "Delved deep"? lol. I think the little said on this the better. I cant find an atheist here who can convincingly hold their own in a purely bible debate besides rushing off to plagiarise atheist webpages. delved deep indeed.

The fact still remains, atheist knows MORE about the bible than the average Christian that just swallows it hook, line and sinker. . . . . .Is it not the same bible that Christians themselves are yet to agree over what it's teachings are? The old earth creationist, young earth creationist, believers in a global flood and those that do not, prosperity preachers etc are they all not reading from the same bible?. . . . . it is the Christians who ALWAYS spin the bible to meet their needs and wants, that is why the Christians themselves can not agree on anything and hence the constant division. All you guys do is self project yourselves as God and put forward your personal interpretation and opinions as the true interpretation of what is written in the bible. . . . .All this talk about atheist not understanding the bible is PURE crap. . . .

@ OP

NO, atheist are not the most intelligent people around. . . . . .Many atheist I know are just as dull as any other person out there. . . . .When it comes to religious discussions and matters atheist analyze things more rationally since they are not indoctrinated and forced to reason or think in a particular fashion. . . .

noetic16:
@ OP

atheists are brilliabt only in their dreams. whats brilliant in the inability to construct your beliefs in a meaningful and objective easy to comprehend words.

atheism dennotes ignorance.

How does atheism denote ignorance?. . . . . .

Deep Sight:
Atheism makes no sense. Not even a scintilla of sense.

It is much, much smarter  to be agnostic. Indeed I find that the vast majority of atheists on this forum do not know what atheism is. They are in reality agnostics who are yet to come across the word "agnostic." Most of them are simply anti-religionists. That is NOT pure atheism.

Atheism is the disbelieve in God, I am a full atheist because I disbelieve in the existence of all the Gods. . . . . .

It is a certified fact that the generality of the most brilliant minds throughout history believed in the existence of God. Even Darwin made several allussions to this. Nobody can study nature as extensively as he did and not end up absolutely blown away - not just by its magnificence, but by the gross improbability of its existence in the first place. Try the human eye. Or a giant tarrantullar. Or Ant Hills that contain air-conditioning mechanisms. No be today. Noetic is right - atheism denotes ignorance: willfull blindness.

How does the existence of the human eye prove that there is a God? Did any God tell you that he created the air conditioning system in the ant hill?. . .How do the existence of these things prove that there is a God?. . . . .So because ants exist that means God also must exist, eh?. . . . .

The immutable and eternal element or factor responsible for all that exists.

How do you know that there is only ONE factor that is responsible for all that exist and that factor is eternal? Do you have any evidence for this or are you just making things as usual like others before you have been doing?. . . . .Did any external factor come up to you are tell you that he is responsible for all that exist? or is this the same whole "since I don't know so it must be God" brouhaha?. . . . .No body knows anything about existence any body that says other wise is simply LYING and making things up. . . . . . .I don't know is the most honest answer, the God hypothesis is already a FAILED hypothesis. . .  ,

naijacutee:
Evidence


http://www.arkdiscovery.com/red_sea_crossing.htm

The second site contains pictures of exploration of the sea bed where they found thousands of chariot remains, human bones and horse skeletons! No carry last o, bros. Google is your friend.

I just went through the second site again and discovered that it belongs to Ron Wyatt. I have news for you, his claims are so outlandish that other Christians have set out websites debunking so many of his claims. . . . .Here are the 3 major ones. . . . . .

Tent maker, Christian Information Ministries and Answers in Genesis

The premise proposed in 'The Bible Unearthed' by Finkelstein and Silberman who are professional archeologist seems profoundly sensible.

In a nutshell:

There never was a real exodus as described, and that the Israelites were really just another Canaanite tribe. No copies of these accounts appear till the 7th century BCE when king Josiah 'finds' a copy of the book of the law (convenient, as the nation was falling apart). He suggests that the accounts really represent 7th century sensibilities (such as the reference to Abraham from Chaldea, an exotic location to the 7th century mind) and pulled together a lot older tales into a single more or less coherent tale.

Suddenly the Israelites had a history, and a kind of national pride that did not exist before.

There is a hell of a lot more detail in that book, well worth it even if you have doubts.

It's a mistake, even when looking for historical basis, to assume all these things happened at the times specified, or in the order specified. Oral histories had a habit of becoming very fluid chronologically and events that didn't occur at the same time wind up being represented together.

naijacutee:
You're lagging behind, bros. There are whole books of evidence devoted to these topics, and we are now at the stage where the scientists agree. Let me help you here

1. Biblical Exodus Narrative


Evidence

http://www.amazon.com/Israel-Egypt-Evidence-Authenticity-Tradition/dp/019513088X
http://www.arkdiscovery.com/red_sea_crossing.htm

Is this what you call scientific evidence? A book written by a Christian fundamentalist? This is the same as you showing me a book written by an Islamic loony who claims to have evidence on how Prophet Mohammed divided the moon into two. . . . .I asked for scientific evidence that supports the biblical exodus narrative, up till date there is NO such evidence at all. . . . . A hundred years of archeological finding by professional archeologist has failed to provide any evidence to back up the biblical story. . . . .What am I to do with the second link of armature Christian archeologist who are finding things as far away as Saudi Arabia?. . . . . .That site is completely bogus because if you look at the site they claim to also have found the ark of covenant, something that the bible itself claims is no longer on earth, so how then are they discovering the ark of covenant?. . . . . .That site is just a waste of time. . . . . .They claimed to have found Noah ark and the ark of covenant amongst other things. . . .

The second site contains pictures of exploration of the sea bed where they found thousands of chariot remains, human bones and horse skeletons! No carry last o, bros. Google is your friend.

Again that site is a waste of time, as i aforementioned I am more interested in peer reviewed  scientific findings. . . .

Rabbi David Wolpe of Sinai Temple has been on record since 2001 as disputing the Exodus story.

" . . .The reason that modern scholars dispute the historicity of the Exodus  doesn’t have anything to do with the first two parts of the story [slavery in Egypt, the journey through the desert]; it has to do with the third part [when they arrive in the land].

“If, in fact, hundreds of thousands of Jews left Egypt, then you should be able to see new settlement patterns in Israel — [size=15pt]and archaeologists have excavated Israel, and they don’t see a change in the building structure, in the pottery, all the things you think would change if there was a huge immigrant influx[/size],” Wolpe said.

I find it impossible to believe that 10 plagues happened ,  and all the first born were murdered by God. . . . . .and the Red Sea parted and yet the only record of this is in the bible.  And people lived out on the sand eating starch that fell out of the sky. It's a folk tale, probably embellished over long years of retelling.

Of prior concern here should be the date of the sources in Exodus  1- 14 judged empirically on the basis of datable details. The latter, it must be admitted, are few and most are of a toponymic nature. Research on these place-names, however, has proceeded far beyond the stage of Cazelle's classic article of thirty-five years ago; and we can now genuinely speak of a unanimity of the evidence. Whoever supplied the geographical information that now adorns the story had no information earlier than the Saite period (seventh to sixth centuries B.C.). The eastern Delta and Sinai he describes are those of the 26th Dynasty kings and the early Persian overlords: his toponyms reflect the renewed interest in the eastern frontier evidenced for this period by fort building and canalization. He knows of "Goshen" of the Qedarite Arabs, and a legendary "Land of Ramesses." He cannot locate the Egyptian court to anything but the largest and most famous city in his own day in the northeastern Delta, namely Tanis, the royal residence from about 1070 to 725 B.C. (cf. Psalm 78:12, 43), which survives as a metropolis into Roman times; and he mistakenly presses into service the adjacent marshy tract "the reed-(lake)" as the "Reed-sea," the scene of Israel's miraculous passage to safety. The route he is familiar with is that which traverses the same tract as the canal of Necho II (610-594 B.C.) from Bubastis to the Bitter Lakes; then he moves north in his mind's eye past the famous fort at Migdol to Lake Sirbonis (Ba'al Saphon) where Horus had already in the mythical past thrown Seth out of Egypt. In short, with respect to the geography of the Exodus, the post-Exilic compiler of the present Biblical version had no genuinely ancient details. He felt constrained to supply them from the Egypt of his own day and, significantly perhaps, cited several places where Asiatic elements and especially Judaean mercenaries resided in the sixth and fifth centuries.

--Donald Redford


http://www.mailstar.net/archaeology-bible.html

nuclearboy:
Interesting that scientists NOW accept the plagues of Egypt took place.[size=15pt] They also accept the exodus[/size]. They also accept there was a flood which could have been the Biblical flood though they insist it was regional. Now this. Based on the desire to deny, what they do is try to find other reasons to ascribe for these phenomena - nature, volcanoes, earthquake etc. And why not? - accepting they were wrong will bring into focus the fact that most postulations MAY be wrong.

When it comes to their own theories of evolution, its supposition after supposition. There are as many dating techniques as there are scientists and 5 experts will offer 5 ages for any "fossil". But all of these mean not much. What matters and truly encapsules the truth is succintly exposed above - "And so?"

Whether it is true or not doesn't matter then. What matters is its to advantage to deny it or belittle it!

I am waiting for the scientific findings that support the biblical exodus narrative or the biblical global flood narrative. . . . . .There's no evidence, for for the Exodus. There's no evidence that Jews were wandering around the area between Egypt and Palestine for 40 years. No evidence that massive amounts of Canaanites were displaced by an invading force at the time period that the Joshua narratives describe. There's no evidence that David (if he even existed) commanded a kingdom that spanned from Egypt to Turkey. There's not even any evidence that the two kingdoms were even one.

Even if the Exodus did happen, Egypt controlled the area that the Jews supposedly fled to. So the story is nonsense on its face.

Maga must drop. . . . . .

alexleo:
God forbid that i will forsake His ways. Its better for me to die and make heaven than to leave God and after living my life i go to hell. God will give me the grace to make heaven. Amen. May God save your soul from this eternal damnation you are heading to. Amen.

This one is completely lost in the bubble of delusion. . . . . .

alexleo:
@Dolemite,
peter denied Jesus because they had not received the power of the Holy Ghost. Have u not read in the bible- not by power nor by might but by my spirit says the Lord.
Jesus promised them that when he gets to heaven he will send the holy spirit to them  and when the Holy spirit came upon them on the day of pentecost, the same peter preached bodly to the Jews and about 3000 of them were saved in one day. After that He continued preaching bodly  and at the end he wasnt afraid of dying for Christ. If a christian doesnt have the power of Holy Ghost he wont be able to withstand some difficult times.
I still pray you turn back to the God of your mother. I believe she is praying for all of you her children and God will answer her prayer.

This man is still narrating fictional stories written by unknown men as if they are true. . . . . . You believe Dolomite is on the wrong track just because she refuses to accept your mythical stories, eh?. . . . .Can you see the problem? She has grown out of the indoctrination and ridiculous beliefs so will you let her be?. . . .

alexleo:
@Dolemite,
You think your mother is a fool for telling you what you said she told you? May God help you not to ignore her wise counsel. Your mother has done the best for you by showing you the way of God and if you think she is wrong you will have yourself to blame. You people that call yourself atheists and are ashamed to make it open to your family and people around has once again proved that you are on the wrong side. Somebody is talking about christians in the north who are not bold enough to say they are christians. Its a big lie. Any strong christian who is sure of his stand and relationship with God cannot hide being a christian in the North. When we talk about Christians its not just by saying it or going to church, you must live it as a lifestyle and you can only live it as a life when you are genuinely Born Again. Washed with the blood of Jesus.
Its quite painful that most of you atheists were born into a christian family nurtured in the ways of God. After all the efforts by your parents, you threw away this precious heritage they gave you. PAINFUL. MAY GOD DELIVER YOU PEOPLE.

What is this nonsense you have up there? Christianity and religion as a whole has carried on ONLY because of fear and guilt that it instills upon the believer. Through family traditions for centuries are the reasons why people believe in religion. Our parents taught us this and told us to believe not because we studied and came to some kind of conclusion that what they taught us is true.Most of us were indoctrinated at an early age, told that we are bad people and that we have offended some imaginary God and our parents religion is the only way that will save us from eternal doom etc. . . . Most of us just become what our parents wanted us to become just like them.

We were just told and force to accept and never allowed to question, never allowed to learn about others outside the faith. Taught that this fictional character Jesus was the right and only way or Mohammed is the last prophet of some imaginary Allah. Religious brainwashing 101.

For the first time in centuries young people today are starting to make educated religious decisions themselves and learning about all major belief systems, how they came about and the driving force behind such belief systems. Deciding for themselves whats best not what mom and dad taught us only because their mom and dad taught them and so on all the way back in time. Religion(Christianity and Islam) is a form of racism. We are taught only our way is right and others are wrong, bad and condemned already and they deserve to suffer only because they do not share our believe in our stories forgetting that all religions begin and end with stories and NOTHING more. Religion segregates people.

Hopefully a century from now the inhabitants of the earth will look back and say how silly Christianity and other belief systems were from the past. How people back then (now) believed because of ignorance, family tradition, and fear and guilt that was imposed upon them by mythical traditions. Maybe a century from now all people of the world will be treated equally, and not segregated from each other because of our ignorance and fear from the past of religions that preached “we are right and everyone else is wrong”  NONSENSE. . . .  .

All those talking about atheist in Nigeria do NOT know ANYTHING they are talking about, try being an atheist for a day in Nigeria and you will understand what we are talking about. . . . .The two major religions in Nigeria(Christianity and Islam) and formed mainly on the belief that they alone are the custodian of the "truth" and way to God. . . . .The two religions function only by castigating and belittling other belief system around them. . . "Jesus is the only way to God" or "there is no God but Allah" is the deluded mantra the keep singing all the time. . . . . .If they don't accept each other how then do you expect them to accept some one that does not even believe in the entire myth?. . . . . .

A God is a human construct used to explain away many things and to keep people in line. . . . .All Gods were created out of the fear of the many and the cleverness of a few. . . . .

Here in Europe I am an atheist, I do not carry it as a badge though, back in Nigeria I still go to religious gatherings just to gain acceptance because Nigerians are too close minded, fetish, fearful and indoctrinated as a result they can not even understand what it means when somebody says that there is no God. . . . . .Or that all the Gods they worship are a creation of other men like them. . . . . .

Mudley PLEASE take down those pictures. . . .

^^

Abeg ohhhh. . . . .

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