₦airaland Forum

^^
Or this one. . . .

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1sJDhJ-6iE?fs=1&hl=en_US[/flash]

Uyi Iredia:
@ mazaje & homer >>> SSMH (Seriously Shaking My Head) at you two

i see you guys have rigidly determined to obviate faith (in effect) by continuously connoting & denoting it with
religion >>> furthermore you ignored my argument that you atheists (tend to) equate reason with logical empericism

When i talk about fate, i refer only to religious faith. . . . .

*2 >>> I'm tired of repeating this >>> mythical or fictional works have verisimilitude >>> they incorporate elements of reality
     >>> u naively discount this when u brush off The Bible as a fictional work

But that doesn't make them factual. . . .I dislike religion because of this, it takes some aspects of reality and give it an entire meaning of its own. . .That is what i call delusion and this is the heart of the whole delusion that religious people live under. They understand that people need comfort, so they deluded them into thinking that all their wrong-doings have been made better or that everything will be okay someday when they die or whatever. They just imagine an invisible friend who they tell people will make everything better and the problem is solved.

*3 >>>  and u 'believe' evolution is a theory sustained conjecture >>> given evolutionary rubrics >>> a donkey speaking
     is likely >>> the moment a donkey that can speak is found i'll bet my left balls that evolutionists will point to it as an example
     >>> of natural selection at work & a plausible pointer to how man could have evolved speech

I do not accept the evolutionary theory completely, some parts of it I accept but not all of it. . . . .The main point is that donkeys do not speak human language. . . . .If you know any donkey that does pls bring it on. . . .

*1 >>> SMH >>> i will (on purpose) jabber your statement >>> man is an example of an animal that speaks human language
     >>> shouldn't take faith to believe >>> it is a reasonable argument >>> evidenced by how bees, parrots & other animals communicate

Donkeys do not communicate with humans by speaking the human language, that is a fact any other statement is false. . . . .

aletheia:
This is just your own definition of faith. There are others who disagree.
So only an amputee receiving his limb back constitutes a miracle?

Where did I say that?

God can do all things, but He doesn't have to do it at your beck and call.

Really? If you read the bible, you will see the God of the Jews doing everything at their beck and call, If they wanted their God to show them a sign that he was greater than all the other Gods, all the needed to do was pray to him and he will be at their service, example is the story of Elijah and the prophets of Baal. . . .Even Christians still tout miracles as evidence for the existence of their God. . . .

In my various interactions with you: you have yet to convince me that you have actually investigated the evidence for Christian belief.

What exactly are the evidence for the Christian belief?. . . .There is NON. . . . .That is why it is faith based. . . . .Do you have ANY evidence about the Christian belief to show me?. . . . . .

So much of what you say seems to me to be regurgitated hearsay. Perhaps, you might care to enlighten me on your journey to a belief in the non-existence of God. At what point and why did you stop believing: that might make a better argument convincing me than calling me deluded.
If we are the cave-dwellers and you are the man who's been in the light, then show me how you left the cave.

I have done so many times here those that know me here know my story, I don't want to go back to it again. . . . .

You claim all faith-based miracles are fradulent or subjective. Have you subjected all of them to investigation and found it so?

YES. . . . . . .

^Really? Explain if you will: The fact that you exist. The Scientific model of which you are so enamoured states that absence of evidence. . .is most definitely not evidence of absence, but you disagree with it here based on your own personal suppositions. Even your hero Carl Sagan agrees with me on this point. See here

That's Carl Sagan's opinion. . .Absence of evidence is still evidence of absence. . .If something exist then there must be evidence to show for its existence. . . . Its very simple. . . .

Mudley313:
@ christian religious nuts e-ganging on muslim e-fundamentalist. war of the deluded. my-god-is-better-than yours; wonder why humans do all the talking while their all-powerful dead non-existent gods just sit back and watch. deluded goats

[center]https://www.yoism.org/images/ChosenPeople.jpg[/center]

SPOT ON!!. . . . .Two deluded factions debating whose imaginary God is real and whose is false. . . . .Crazy deluded loons all of them. . . . .

How many times do you want people to keep reading your jargon, remember the last time you put us to the test and ended up running away?. . . . .

What exactly is aletheia trying to than suggest? Are you suggesting that faith is on a higher level than science?. . . . . .Faith is just what it is, its a belief in things that are not grounded on facts or based on reality that's is why it is called faith if it is factual the need for faith will be eliminated, for example, you believe that Jonah survived inside a fish for 3 days not because it has any thing to do with reality but because your faith accepts it. . . . .

aletheia:
I believe you refer to Balaam's donkey. This is one specific singular act of a donkey speaking human speech---though Science does admit that animals communicate with each other. This was a remarkable supernatural act of God hence it was recorded.

This is NOT true, its is not a remarkable act of any God, it's just a story and it ends there, animals do not speak human language. . . .If we are to go by your faith statement then we can also believe that prophet Mohammed made a try to shed tears and cry profusely. . . .why is it that animals and trees talk or cry only in mythical ancient stories and NOT in reality? I know very well that you do not believe that Mohammed was able to make a tree cry, but you some how believe through faith that Balaam's donkey spoke the Hebrew language. . . . . . .

Where Science stumbles is to proclaim the non-existence of God and therefore strait-jacket itself when it comes to explaining miracles.

an you give me a clear example of a miracle, CLEAR case of miracle is what I am expecting from you, for example God healing an amputee and restoring his/her amputated limbs back. . . . . .All faith based miracles are either fraudulent or subjective and amount to NOTHING. . . . .If you have any example of a clear cut miracle then pls bring it on lets examine it. . . . . .Sciences is yet to see the name or signature of any God written in any where. . . . . .Absence of evidence is evidence of absence. . . . . .

Christians don't go around claiming that donkeys speak human language but we recognize that with God all things are possible and so it is not any surprise if He caused the donkey to speak or the dead to rise. Faith confers a freedom that Science lacks.

Faith encourages delusion am sorry to say, people give credence to such nonsense mythical writings to their own detriment. . . . .Pastor Enouch once Adeboye LIED that he drove for over 200km on an empty tank, he alluded to the bible when telling his lies, he claimed that there is nothing that his God can not do, his said his God made a man to run faster than a horse and also made a donkey to speak like a human in the bible as such he knew his God will make him travel for more than 200km on an empty tank. . . . Many people that believed in the biblical story also believed in his baseless story because of the believe that there is nothing God can not do which it self is a FALSE statement. . . .NO God can heal an amputee and restore his/her amputated limbs back. No God can do that. . . .No God can make any body Fly from point A to point B. . . .So enough of this God can do all things mantra which itself is FALSE. . . . . . .

dabriggs:
poo? Realy?

Are they realy serious.

Now on a more serious note which is right? What are the possibilities:

1. God created everbody as one and equal but man in his quest for supremacy, power and followership made up standards and doctrines that over time deviated greatly from one geographical area to another.

2. Religion does not exist. Man created the idea of God and as such different men created diffferent supreme beings. They choose the doctrines and beliefs based on the culture and traditions which emanated from life experiences. Therefore many differrent experiences meant many different dieties and Gods. Stronger groups, with bettter technology and luck were able to forcefully or peacefully spread their beliefs to othe rsmaller tribes/groups.

3. , or guys what are your other theories? Why is there so much noise, din, disrancour etc.

The second option is the the fact and agrees with reality. . . .

Is this a joke?. . . . . .

[quote author=Rhino.3dm link=topic=535346.msg6981648#msg6981648 date=1287608840]^^ mazaje! A mun gafara da wannan karambani. . . . .sai a hankali.[/quote]Maza maza maza. . . . .Hmmmm sai a hankali, ya harkoki?. . . . .Da fatan kana lafiya. . . .

[quote author=Rhino.3dm link=topic=535346.msg6980206#msg6980206 date=1287592910]how can we be sure that those things are not facts in other level of energy or possible in the later feature may be science will be able to make inventions that that will make them visible. Eg i personally thought UFO's are mirage not until last month i was out in the night and my friend notice  two dumbell shape like object moving in a calculated cyclic motion for a while with a bright light like a car head light. I was stunt and that change alot in my perception of things i used to feel arent there,[/quote]What things are you talking about?. . . .As for the UFO thingy that could be anything, so why speculate wildly since it could be anything. . . .

signon77:
There can never be a "true" religion in a universal sense, only the right religion for us at this time.

In childhood I was a Christian. As time went by I became a member of ECKANKAR and remain so till this day.

This is not a question any man can answer for another.

So Ecankar is your new found religion, eh? Nice. . . .

Just to add to the above as to why people believe their religion is true and stick to their religious beliefs even when every other person outside their religion believes otherwise. . . . . Anyone modern, that is educated, becomes experienced with the falsehoods of politicians, advertising agencies, untrustworthy friends and colleagues, he/she learns to sort out lies and tall tales most of the time. However, the religion of their culture surrounds them before they've developed this critical thinking ability, by constantly warning them against the consequences of not believing it which comes with a very nasty price, most of the time leaving it means being excluded from a significant part of how they interact with the community, particularly related to events like funerals, weddings, and births etc. So they can very easily notice lies, fables and myth, but not the one they are immersed in. Religions is mostly the background noise of their culture.

dabriggs:
So God will judge me based on what I know, learnt, spoke and practised. It doesnt matter whether I am a Christian or Muslim.
Some even said God will judge me based on the religion I practised.

I do not think that is correct. There are beliefs/practises that are considered SIN in one religion while in some others it is just cool. Even within Christains, this division exists.

So on what standard(s) will he judge (even christians) all these religions and denominations?

Its all about cultural acceptance and societal upbringing. . . .Since all religions are equally (in)valid, there is nothing to stop you from skipping from one to the next. . . .  Just like you might prefer white today and blue tomorrow.
This is why just about every religion out there has the concepts of blasphemy and heresy to keep people in line and never allow them to question the entire myth or fairy tale and all its illogical claims, that is the reason why apostasy is nearly always one of the greatest sins possible. An apostate is to be shunned at best and killed at worst. Just look at Christianity. . . . . 5 of the 10 commandments tell you to ONLY believe in Bible God and no other God. . . .Islam begins by telling you that one of its greatest fundamentals is the believe that there is no God but Allah, ebvery other God is false. . .

Religions with the triple tag team of the heresy, blasphemy and apostasy memes do better in the putting people in line because, once indoctrinated  which is usually from childhood escape is extremely unlikely. Religions that lack one or more of these tend to loose memeholders (ie brains) along the way.
That's why Christians or Muslims call the beliefs of others 'myths'. From their viewpoint these beliefs quite simply CAN'T be true and their own, EQUALLY flawed beliefs MUST be true. There is NO true religion only people trying to show their cultures or the cultures of others they accepted as "true". . . . .

Religious faith is belief in things that aren't based on fact. . . . .

yommyuk:
@Mudley313


The Word of God says in Psalm 69:7,9,21,24
"For I endure insults for your sake: humiliation is written all over my face"
"The passion for Christ has consumed me, and the insults of those who insult you have fallen on me
"But instead they give me poison for food; they offer me sour wine for my thirst"
"Pour our your fury on them; consume them with your burning anger"

Do I wish Verse 24 on you, surely No but your utterances and atitude will lead you there. Keep it up bro

Satan awaits you into his eternal kingdom

Wetin man no go see , this fellow is so deluded to the extent that he is making up things that are not even in the bible and adding to the bible, WHERE in the passages above did the word "passion for Christ" appear in any part of the psalms as your very fraudulently wrote above? Keep on lying for Jesus, since that's the only thing you deluded people are good at. . . . .

Mudely313. . . . .

excanny:
I think we should all hold you responsible for that error. You brought the verse here as one of your supposedly 'failed' prophecies.

I was trying to get at something different, there is nothing in the bible that comes close to a prophecy considering the fact that

1. Most of the writers of the bible remain unknown till this day
2. Most of what the wrote down were written long after the events had happened. They were narrating stories that happened long ago.

Example people always make reference to the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem as one of the prophecies of Jesus in the new testament, but the problem is that all the gospels were written very long after the temple was destroyed so its very easy to predict things after they had already happened, no? Take a look at the book of Daniel, most of it was written after the events it predicted had occurred and its latter predictions all failed and never happened. . . . . .

I will expect a biblical prophecy to be very clear and unambiguous, unlike the cultural and subjective nonsense that is found in the bible. . . .I would expect something as clear as " Human beings will visit the moon in the 19th century" or that "Humans will build nuclear weapons in the future" or that "people will be able to fly from one continent to another in hours in the future" or "talk each other on different continents in real time despite living very far away from each other". . . . .If any of these things had been predicted in the bible then it would have had some credibility, but what do we have in the bible? Predictions that never happened or "prophecies" that were written after the events had happened. . . . .There is nothing in the bible that is new or could not have been written by the ancient people that lived during that time. . . . .

excanny:
Can you tell me a country today called Edom?

If you read what the bible says it talks about the place becoming a burning pitch of fire for ever and states that no one will pass through the place again, yet people are still passing through the place. It is not a country by the way. . . . .The place is presently not a burning pitch is it?. . . .

Ofcourse, there were some jews already resident in Egypt before the jews from Jerusalem came to seek refuge in Egypt(and they all met their waterloo there). The already resident jews carried on with their lives to set up the cultural centre at Alexandria. (Jer 24:8-18)

What exactly are you saying? Did you read what was written at all before posting this?. . . .

excanny:
This is not true. All that
remains of the original ancient
famed city of Babylon today is a
mound, or tell, of broken mud-
brick buildings and debris in the
fertile Mesopotamian plain
between the Tigris and Euphrates
rivers.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylon?wasRedirected=true

It is very true, people still live in Babylon today despite the bible saying that no body will ever leave there again. . . . .Your link says that all that remains of the ancient city are broken mud brick buildings etc, but then says that the ancient city has been reconstructed and is now part of a city in Iraq. . . . . . .

excanny:
Opinions are divided on this one. Some scholars say that this happened when Tiglath-pileser III attacked damascus, captured it, put Rezin to death, and exiled many damascenes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiglath-Pileser_III?wasRedirected=true

Other scholars believe that the assyrian assualt affected only the inhabitants and not the city itself and that the prophecy is yet to be fulfilled.

Like i said before, that a prophecy is yet to happen doesn't make it untrue.

All these stuffs are not even prophecies by the way, because most of the things written in the bible were written long after the events had happened, a simple reading of the bible will tell you that is a recollection of old events and the authors were not even relating events they witnessed that's why you see phrases like "up till this day" signifying that the writer was narrating something that happened long ago.

The prophets here employee the figure of the Nile's drying up as a hyperbole to show the extent of the disaster due to come upon Egypt as a result of God's judgments against the nation. The Nile's failure would not only cripple agriculture and rearing of animals but also damage the fishing industry and the production of linen.

You are the one that is employing the use of a hyperbole to help you explain away a false prophecy that never happened . . . . .You are giving the passage your own interpretation and opinion which does not even count for anything. . . . .

This may have come after Nebuchadnezzar's conquest of Egypt(Jer. 43:10-13). Evidence of his defeat of Egypt outside the Bible includes[b] a babylonian text dated to Nebuchadnezzar's 37th year(588 BCE) which mentioned a campaign against Egypt.[/b] Unfortunately, secular history does not capture all that happened in the past. But we can be sure that it happened sometime after Egypt's destruction by Babylon.

Endless speculations, eh?. . . . . . .So a Babylonian text that mentioned a campaign against Egypt means that Egypt was desolate for 40 years as the bible wrongly stated, eh?. . . .Secular history does not capture all that happened in the past but biblical history does, eh? why then is the bible not used as a history book in serious places or institutions of learning?

OLAADEGBU:
The deluded is the one who simply hides his head in the sand thinking that no one sees his delusion.

And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters  And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so. -- Gen.1:6

So where is the firmament that divides the waters above from the waters below?. . . . .Where is the water above?. . . . .

If atheists spent their time reading the Bible with an open mind they would save themselves of a lot of pain.

If Christians STOP lying around and making things up and just accept that the bible is the writings of ancient bronze age men that had no idea about the creation of the universe it will be good for every body. . . . .No need lying through your teeth just because you want to make sense out of pure nonsense. . . .

This is an exerpt from Bible scholars on the explanation of the firmament in verse 6

The guy is a deluded liar, he doesn't even know what he is talking about at all. . . . .

So, it is up to you if you want to stick your head up and smell the coffee or remain buried in the sand like an ostrich.

Look who is talking. . . . .

excanny:
You mind being more specific. Let have the examples.

Here are just a few. . . . .

According to Jos 8:28, the city of Ai will be destroyed forever. In actuality, Ai did have later inhabitants. (See Ezr 2:1,28 and Ne 7:32.)

According to Ex 3:8, the Israelites will live in a large land, flowing with milk and honey, and according to 2Sa 7:10, they will not be disturbed anymore, but as a matter of historical fact Israel (and vicinity) has been a relatively small and mostly barren land, and the Israelites have been continually harassed from all sides.

According to Isa 14:23, Babylon will become wet, but that never happened. According to Jer 51:36, Babylon will become totally dry, but that never happened either. According to other verses, [11] Babylon will never be inhabited by people again, but in fact Babylon has been continually inhabited by people since that time. It is now part of Iraq.

According to Isa 17:1, Damascus will be destroyed, but in fact Damascus is one of the few ancient cities that has never been destroyed. [The fact that so many were destroyed makes prophecies of the future destruction of ancient cities rather unremarkable.] If Isaiah had predicted that Damascus would never be destroyed, then that would have been remarkable.

According to Isa 19:5, Eze 30:12, and Zec 10:11, the Nile River will dry up, and according to Eze 29:9-12, Egypt will become desolate for 40 years, with no man or animal passing through it and with all Egyptians dispersed, but as a matter of fact the Nile River has never dried up and in the whole history of Egypt no such calamitous events have ever occurred

According to Isa 34:9-10, Edom (the land between the Dead Sea and Gulf of Aqaba) will become burning pitch: no one will ever pass through it again. But in truth that has never happened to Edom. People have passed through it for thousands of years.

According to Jer 42:17, Jews who choose to live in Egypt will all die and leave no remnant. But history shows that Jews continued to live there for centuries, later establishing a cultural center at Alexandria.

[quote author=Rhino.3dm link=topic=519292.msg6938702#msg6938702 date=1287057418]^^^An aiki bawa garinsu. . . .meaning would you ever expect a slave that has been sent to his home town on an errand to come back? Nah [/quote]Mazaaaaa. . . .Yane? Ka share ni ko?. . . . .

OLAADEGBU:
Why would it be difficult for Adam to have lived more than 900 years? He actually lived 930 years because the conditions then were at their optimum for health unlike today when we have a high ultraviolet exposure, his exposure was low due to the water canopy that surrounded the earth before the flood and the nutritional value of foods was extremely high. Scientist "today are working on extending life spans by reducing ultraviolet exposure and to increase nutritional contents in foods" -- Richard Gunther.

This man is completely lost in his delusions. . . . . . So there was some water canopy that was blocking the earth from ultraviolet exposure back in the days

excanny:
I want to believe that you do not have a comprehension problem. Did i say that the Bible fell from the skies? I said it was penned down by 40 different men. The further proofs i gave showed they must have done so under divine inspiration.

Aren't you just begging the question?. . . . .

That a prophesy has not happened does not imply that it's not true and will not happen.

Many prophesies in the bible were supposed to have happened to a particular group of people within a particular period but they never happened. Hence they are false. . . . .

Kay 17:
@Ola

If the Hadiths mention Adam was 90ft, will you still accept that the Bible's assertion, that Adam lived for over 500yrs?

The delusions of religion, he completely accepts the fables written in the bible that Adam lived for over 900 years but still has the guts to mock the Muslims for believing another fable that Adam was over 90ft tall. . . . .My religion story is right and every other one is false is the  name of the delusion. . . . .

Black Jesus, eh? How about a Chinese Jesus. . . . . .

excanny:
There are so many proofs that shows that the Bible was authored by God, but i would only state four of them that i can remember now(texting on mobile and cant do much researching).

The bible was authored by men and men alone just like any other book out there. . . . . .

Proof 1, the fulfilment of Bible prophesies. No human, however clever he is, can predict what will happen in the next one hour, talk less of the what will happen in next 30 days.

There are SO FAILED prophecies in the bible, many things that the God of the bible decreed will happen when the stories were written never happened. . . . .

The Bible predicted the fall of the Babylonian dynasty some 800 years ahead of time, even detailing precisely how the plans will be carried out and the name of the arrowhead of the medo-persian army that would launch the assualt as Cyrus the Great. This is in complete harmony with secular history.

The book of Daniel was written by 2 different authors, the first author wrote his part long after the events had occurred, its very easy to make prophecies after the events had taken place, no? The second part of the book of Daniel is filled with FAILED prophecies that never happened and will never happen. . . . . .

Proof 2, the Bible was penned down by some 40 different men who lived over a period of 1600 years, yet the internal harmony of all parts of the Bible is striking. If you read through the Bible, you cant but notice its central theme which is the establishment of the Creator's rulership over his creations.

This is false because even the writers of the bible had very different idea of whom the God they were writing about is. . . . .The is little or no similarity between the violent and blood thirsty God of the OT and the subtle God of the New testament. . . . . .The morality and values of the God of the bible kept changing and the values and morals of the people kept evolving . . . .

Proof 3, the candour of the men who penned down its wordings is not ordinary. Under normal circumstances, when writers write their books they often left out their errors and shortcomings, and promote their good side. The writers of the Bible admitted their own faults in their write-ups.

Lastly, the scientific accuracy of the Bible is further proof of its authorship by God. At a time when no one knew about microbes and the causes of diseases, the Bible contained instructions given to the ancient Israelites on how to prevent epidemics while the surrounding nations were using things like human waste as medication.

There is NO scientific accuracy in the bible at all, if there is any pls bring it on lets examine and and compare it with what modern science says. . . .The same bible recommended the blood of doves and cure for leprosy, no? Do you liars ever read the bible at all, or do you just go about copying the apologies of people that are always untrue? What has thew bible got to say about microbes? Isn't it the same bible that says that evil spirits are responsible for seizures, blindness and diseases?. . . . . . .

Only one person can have this kind of knowledge and that person is none other than the Omniscient himself.

A simple reading of the bible says that the God it talks about is NOT omniscient at all,there is NOTHING in the bible that could not have been written by humans, there is nothing in it that could not be written by primitive bronze age men. . . . . .

zubeyr:
@mazage  blah blah you can say   whatever you want and you still can't proof to a  reasonable person  that Islam is not a  true Religion
ISLAM is the essence of every true faith  it means submission to One God "There is no God but Allah and Mohamed is his slave and Messenger ''
we Muslim believe in All prophets from Adam to Mohamed we believe in hell and heavens we believe in Angels in the destiny we believe that  no man can die for other people sins include Jesus every one is accountable before God the day of Judgment  

Your beliefs remain mere beliefs they have nothing at all to do with reality. reality has nothing to do with Islam and reality states that Islam is a man made religion like every other religion. . . . . .

Christianity today is nothing but a legacy of  the Colonisation brought by missionaries to Africans to corrupts their mind and deviate them from the truth
true religion ? oh yeah my foot most christians are Sceptic  about the trinity because it is irrational and doesn't make no sense

What is is deluded goon saying? What exactly is Islam? Is Islam also not brought to you by the Arab slave masters and Jihad terrorist?. . . . .Islam remains an Arabic way of life and Allah remain a God that was invented by Mohammed and his cronies. . . .

Mohammed was a very very funny fellow. . . . .I wonder why people still believe all this ridiculous drivel, people like the DELUDED nopuqeater are just trying too hard to defend crazy mythologies of the ancient Arab illiterates. . . . .I laugh in Greek. . . .