₦airaland Forum

Bastage:
I love how they use Carbon Dating as "proof" that the wood is 4800 years old.

Since when did Creationists ever believe in Carbon Dating?

As long as carbon dating does not state that the earth is billions of years old. . . . .

davidylan:
Its funny but it seems to me that the MAJOR problem with the atheist is not that there is a God but that such a God is intimately interested in how we live our lives.

Yeah like a god that is "interested" in people lives by telling his "chosen people" to kill unbelievers and sacrifice them unto him as burnt offering no? A god that tell people to despoil unbelievers, and steal from them, A god that tells people to kill each other for NO reason at all sometimes? A god that tells men to tell women not to speak in public and be their subordinates eh? Take it or leave it. . Your god was INVENTED by men. . . .The idea came from ancient tribal Jews and their superstition. . . .Read the bible its all in there. . . .

I really dont understand how belief in a God who created the earth and left is most "rational and logical". Does anyone have an idea?

The idea is better than the myth of a god who allegedly goes around killing people, soaking his shirt with their blood and boasting that he did it alone as recorded in your bible. . . .Such a god is only able to do that in the pages of the bible a book that was written when men mostly believed in diverse superstitious beliefs and were without much knowledge of the laws of nature and how the operate. . . .Even the christians of now a days are constantly changing the traditional attributes to their god and stripped him of his allege "powers". They have now relegated his status to that of the deist

noetic16:
whaooo. what would happen to the ignorance of Toneyb, mazaje and other theists if and when this claims are substantiated?

. . .The Noah's flood remains a plagiarized MYTH. . . .First there any scientific evidence of a catastrophic flood that rose to near the top of Ararat 4,800 years ago? Is this not the second or third "Noah's Ark" that has been found by the ark hunters? . . . .

From one of the sources it says:

The finders, led by an evangelical group, say they are "99.9 percent" that a wooden structure found on the mountainside was part of a ship that housed the Biblical Noah, his family and a menagerie of creatures during a giant flood 4,800 years ago.

Evangelical are now finding Noah's ark eh?. . . .

But researchers who have spent decades studying the region – and fending off past claims of ark discoveries – caution that a boatload of skepticism is in order.

"You have to take everything out of context except the Bible to get something tolerable, and they're not even working much with the Bible," said Paul Zimansky, an archaeologist and historian at Stony Brook University who specializes in the Near East - and especially the region around Ararat, known as Urartu.

Cornell archaeologist Peter Ian Kuniholm, who has focused on Turkey for decades, was even more direct - saying that the reported find is a "crock.

http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2010/04/27/2280442.aspx

MyJoe whats up, How are you doing out there?. . . .Just wanted to know of you are a Christian or a Deist?. . .

What is this discredited fraud saying? . . .SHUT UP Benny Hinn!!!

Deep Sight:
6. Since God is ONE, all things move towards unity. Thus unity and harmony are the ultimate values inherent in God.

Why must God be one? Why not so many Gods?

Romeo4real:
@mazeje- You clearly dont have a clue about what you are talking about.

From what you have written so far its very clear that you have NO clue of what you are talking about. . . .

A logical fallacy, if there ever was one. This statement does not make any sense. It is based on an argument that has a true premise, but reaches a false conclusion. To answer your question anyway, - the Bible says that God is the “uncreated creator”. Now, I choose to believe that, you choose not to. Thats fine.

OK. . . .

A meaningless statement. You are clearly trying to talk your way out of a hole - and it shows. A Singularity is a theoretical construct. It is the only known way matter condensed to a finite particle can initiate the Big Bang that gave rise to the universe as we know it today. Without this theoretical construct, the theory of the Big Bang would collapse.
LOL! (it actually isnt funny!) I guess I am assuming along with numerous eminent astrophysicists such as Prof Stephen Hawkins,, George Ellis, and Roger Penrose, Arthur S. Eddington, Harlow Shapley, Jocelyn Bell, Charles Thomas Bolton, Georges-Henri Lemaitre, along with Prof Albert Einstein and his Theory of Relativity, along with Radio Astronomers Arno Penzias and Robert Wilson who discovered  Cosmic Microwave Background radiation (CMB), along with NASA, who recently confirmed faith in Einsteins theory, along with numerous educational and research centres – who ALL agree that that so far, the Big Bang is the only plausible explanation for our universe.
Please show me one scientist, or scientific publication, that disagree or contends that the Big Bang is not the origin of our universe.

Here is what I said read it again. . . .First the singularity is not a beginning in the normal sense, but rather places the limit on what we can deduce from observation.  The big bang does not establish that "the universe had a beginning". What it states is that the cosmos - our four-dimensional space-time, can be traced back to a cosmic singularity. One might thereby assume that said cosmic singularity represents "the beginning", but I would have to note here that this is an assumption on your part. . .  The fact of the matter is that we simply do not know if that really was the "beginning" . . . .

You patronise yourself in order to score cheap thrill. It does you no favours. I am sure you know that the account of creation does not end in Gen 1:1

Yeah like the sun and the moon being created on the same day, no?. . .All the stars being created almost as an after thought on the same day no? . . . . .What does the OBSERVABLE EVIDENCE show? Any reason to believe that the sun and the moon were created on the same day? The observable evidence shows that they were NOT created at the same time. . . .But that is what the genesis "creation account" says. . . .It says that they were created on the same day. . .How so?

At least we have a book that says a God, Omnipotent and Omnipresent created the earth from NOTHING. And we choose to believe it. Please show me any scientific paper that explains what came before the Big Bang, or what came before the Singularity that preceded the Big Bang. Please, show me how it is explained that the Big Bang, or indeed the Singularity came from nothing? As you well know, that haven’t gotten to that stage yet, and they wont – because there is nothing more. As with Evolution (the Missing Link), it always seems to be explained to the point where they can go no further.

What exactly is it that you are trying to say?. . . .Who said that the singularity came from nothing?. . . .God created everything from nothing eh?. . . .Nice.

Please do try to argue intelligently. We need not waste our time on this trivia. There was Light in the Earth before any plants were created, and indeed, there was Day, and there was Night. No one is claiming to understand where this light came from, but it was enough to sustain plant life.

Observable evidence very clearly shows that the sun first had to come before the earth. . . . What was holding the earth and the other planets in orbit before the sun was created if we are to go by the genesis "creation account"? The sun had to come first according to observable evidence since the gravitational pull from the sun is what keeps the earth and other planets in orbit. . . .

Let us examine this in detail. With, or without a belief in God, is it to much to understand how a supernatural Being can create something from nothing? Have you asked yourself how the Sun was created? Oh Yes, it was from a Supernovae explosion. The rapidly cooling fragments/debris and gas clouds eventually formed our planets and also the sun under the sheer force of gravity. The ball of debris that was eventually going to become our Sun continued to contract and get hotter, until its central temperature rose high enough to ignite the fires of nuclear fusion. This is our Sun today.

Do you see anything wrong with this statement? There  seems to be a lot of assumptions and presuppositions here. Where did the light source of the Sun come from? Oh, Nuclear Fission. Where does Nuclear Fission come from? Oh, from the splitting of atoms. Where do these atoms come from? Oh, from the gases and chemical compounds in the gasses. Where do the gasses come from? Oh, from the Big Bang. Where does the Big Bang come from? Oh, from a Singularity. Where does the Singularity come from? Oh, I DO NOT KNOW!

Ohh there seems to be a lot of assumption there, but there isn't any assumption in a creation account that says that the earth was created before the sun, or that all the stars were created on the same day and at the same time?. . . The scientific explanation for star and planetary formation, best explains what we see around. . . .It also best explains the existence of things like asteroids, comets, cosmic dust and so forth. . . .Ohh so because we don't or have't found explanations yet,  that means God did it eh?. . . .When has God did it ever explain anything?. . . . What language did this god use in speaking all the birds we see around into existence as the genesis creation account puts it?. . . .

Meaning of Supernatural – Attributed to a power that seems to violate or go beyond natural forces.(Wikipedia and Free online Dictionary). Hence, If it is agreed that something exists (as a singularity does), and that “thing” does not conform to any natural laws, or laws of physics (as a singularity does), then it is defined as “Supernatural” Do you get that?

Can you show me any scientific paper that says that the singularity disobeys all natural laws or laws of physics?. . . .

LOL! You really cant be this thick?

noetic16:
just search , .I cant lay my hands on the link . . . .but the thread should be titled something . . . . .End-Time - Biblical -Prophecies.

why are u so bothered, disbeliever mazaje?

I am not bothered, Just wanted to read them. . . .the search engine is a mess right now. . . .

noetic16:
search for an END-TIME PROPHETIC thread Jesoul started, . . . .there u will find some of prophet noetic's prophecies.

Just give me the link pls, Mr prophet. . . . . .

noetic16:
they are all over nairaland.

How come i have never seen ANY? . . , Pls list just one or two so that I can be aware of your prophecies. . . .Prophet noetic. . . .

[quote author=petres_007 link=topic=435149.msg5959160#msg5959160 date=1272371870]Mazaje,

Thought you might be interested in these -

Darwin: Brilliantly Half-Right; Tragically Half-Wrong - http://www.cosmicfingerprints.com/blog/darwin-half-right/

“If you can read this sentence, I can prove God exists” - http://www.cosmicfingerprints.com/blog/prove-god-exists/[/quote]DNA is now god right?. . . .I get the idea . . . .As for Perry Marshall his arguments were completely destroyed on the infidels website. . . .What is funny is the way modern day christians have now reduced their god and have almost stripped him of all his traditional powers and attributes. The god that is now talked about is the subtle god that seems to manifest himself in things that people do not know or things that look or sound mysterious. . . .

The god the bible talks about is no longer the image some christians are now portraying. . . .They are now portraying a picture of a completely detached, god who only evidence is "his creation". . . .The all powerful, all knowing, all good, omnipresent, o-mini what ever concept has now been dropped. . .The christian god is now the singularity, DNA, interpreter of dreams etc. . . .He has been completely stripped of his traditional attributes and has now been relegated to the status of the deist god. . . .God is no longer this mysterious being that heals the blind, heal amputees or performs wonders for all to "see and believe". . . .

noetic16:
4. One of the reasons why I refuse to permanently leave nairaland is because of resident atheists and unbelievers like you. The prophecies I have made will come to pass soon . . . . .and through their fulfilment, It is my heart-felt hope that u would realise that there is indeed a God who loves you and has paid the ultimate ransom for us all.

What are the prophecies that you have made prophet noetic?. . . . .Go ahead and list them let's get to know about them before the happen. . . .

Romeo4real:
The existence of Singularities, or rather, science’s agreement that everything traces back to a “Singularity” is one of the most powerful pointers to the existence of a Creator.

Ok. . .A 'creator'' resolves nothing. If I were to ask the question what created the creator, the response will be that the creator requires no creation. So now we have two possibilities:

a) The Universe was created by Creator who requires no creation

b) The Universe requires no creation

A Singularity is a point in space-time in which the normal laws of physics do not apply. It is the “beginning” of the beginning.  It is an infinitely small region of infinite density at which point the mechanics of gravity break down.
Discoveries in astronomy and physics have shown beyond a reasonable doubt that our universe did in fact have a beginning. The argument is simply a matter of how.

False. . . .First the singularity is not a beginning in the normal sense, but rather places the limit on what we can deduce from observation.  The big bang does not establish that "the universe had a beginning". What it states is that the cosmos - our four-dimensional space-time, can be traced back to a cosmic singularity. One might thereby assume that said cosmic singularity represents "the beginning", but I would have to note here that this is an assumption on your part. . .  The fact of the matter is that we simply do not know if that really was the "beginning", or whether there exists some as-yet-undiscovered mechanism that generates cosmic singularities, some or all of which then go on to become "universes". . . .

The argument is that prior to the Big Bang, there was nothing – but a Singularity (so this mean there was “something”). The next question was then where this “Singularity “came from. So far, no one has been able to answer that question.
Some say it came from a “Black Hole”. But where did the Black Hole come from? Also, it has been shown that black holes are not infinite, but have a finite boundary called an Event Horizon.  So again, we are back at the Singularity and the “beginning”.

Where did the creator of the singularity come from?. . . . .

The answer is clear. God the Creator is this Singularity.  The Bible states that - In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth; and the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.
The Bible also states - I have made the earth (Is 45:12), All things were created through Him and for Him(Col 1:16),  For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible (Col 1:16), For thus says the LORD, Who created the heavens, Who is God, Who formed the earth and made it (Is 45:18)

That is the problem with you guys, Science painstakingly tries to find answers on its own and you guys quickly claim victory and ascribe it to your god. . . .What has genesis 1:1 got to do with the big bang?. . . .the BBT is nowhere near the biblical "account" of creation. All we have of this so called ''account'' of the creation of the universe is in Genesis 1:1: "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth". Not exactly a lot of detail there, is there? It's one of those statements that can be presumed to be true by any monotheist irrespective of what the actual physical details might be  because it's a statement that is utterly devoid of any meaningful content.

The big bang, on the other hand, has a great deal to say on the time line of the cosmos, from cosmic inflation, to pair production, to first-generation stars, second generation stars, back ground radiation, formation of black holes and so forth. None of which you'll find in the bible. What you will find in the bible is a BOGUS claim of how some god from no where created the earth and the heavens in 6 days, He started out from creating the earth with plants in it before the sun and the other stars, Light was created without any light source, the spirit of the said god was flowing over the waters without stating how the waters were formed etc. . . .Just some empty assertions that are clearly bogus and explains NOTHING at all . . . .

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Where does the BBT say that the earth was created along with the "heavens" assuming this mean the universe?

Genesis claims that the heavens and earth were formed on the first day, but there was actually a vast amount of time between the Big Bang and the actual formation of the Earth. And then it goes on to claim that the sun was not created until after the plants . . . . .

"In the beginning" is not a scientific explanation any more than "Once upon a time".

So far, (1)Scientists agree that the universe, or rather the Big Bang, started from a Singularity, and (2) It is a phenomenon that defies the known laws science and nature. Basically, what they are saying is that a Singularity is supernatural in origin, whilst at the very same time refusing to accept this very fact.

Which scientist has said that the singularity has a supernatural origin?. . . .A supernatural creator could control and make happen every single thing that occurs in our universe today; every gravitational movement, every chemical reaction, etc. . . .But is there EVIDENCE for a supernatural creator controlling things? No. There's no evidence that a supernatural creator controls chemical reactions, and there's no evidence a supernatural creator generated the singularity. So there's no point in considering it. . . . . .

Unknown causes are simply unknown causes. Up until now, science has demonstrated itself the best method we have for elucidating previously unknown causes; so science will be what is used to investigate the causes of the singularity (which science itself discovered). . . . . .

The discovery of the Big Bang by science as all new scientific discoveries at once both answers many past questions, and presents new questions: gaps. Some religious people stand ever ready to insert their gods into all newly discovered gaps. It's the same game over and over. . . . . .If there is a creator, I believe it follows this creator has to be part of nature, if this creator is not part of nature, then it does not exist in a way that anyone could possibly detect it, not in dreams, visions, or through a fatally flawed book. If a law of nature is broken, how could you prove that the law was in fact broken?

davidylan:
Why is this entire postulation DEVOID of any direct explanation of verses 23 and 25? What exactly did olaadegbu explain? That the earth is 6000 yrs which you yourself DO NOT BUY?

The argument is not about weather the earth is 6000 years old since every body knows that the bible does not say so, The argument is about the direct relationship between the verse in Jeremiah and genesis. . . .

davidylan:
and what exactly is Mazaje himself trying to say here . . .

Because as at the time the vision is being described . . . it is assumed that NOTHING had ever existed before so how exactly can you declare the earth VOID if it had NEVER before contained anything? A cup is declared EMPTY because we know it has the capacity to contain something.

The earth was newly created and was empty because God had not yet created anything(plants and animals) to fill it yet. . . .Is that not what the genesis account is saying?. . . . .

Your problem is that you read the bible with a one-track mind, you give it YOUR OWN literal interpretation which more often than not cannot stand the test of scrutiny.

If the vision of Jeremiah was about the "gloom and doom" promised to Judah then the following would be FALSE . . . Jer 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light

I notice you had no explanation for why Jeremiah would include this in his vision of doom for Judah. Is Judah the entire earth? Why is the ENTIRE EARTH without form and void if this vision is ONLY about the imminent invasion of Judah? Why did the heavens lose their light over Judah?

No, I am not reading it with a one track mind. . . .I believe that OLAADEGBU explained it to you as well but you discarded his explantions. . .Even the translators of the NKJV gave the heading as Sorrow for the doomed nation. . . . .Judah is not the whole earth but such statements have been used in other parts of the bible. . . When bible talks about the earth, it mostly refers to the earth as the land known to the writers of the bible as can be seen in Exodus 10:15 where the bible clearly reports that the locust  that plagued egypt covered "the whole earth". . .  When the satan allegedly took Jesus to the top of the mountains it was written that he showed him "all the kingdoms of the earth" and promised to give it to him if he would bow down and worship him. The earth there means the land of Judah. . . . .

All this makes no sense when you compare them side by side with VERSE 23 of Jer 4. In one breath the writer is discussion the desctruction of a "whole city" (as in verse 29). In verse 6 the writer is talking about invasion of Judah and then suddenly sees the earth without form and void? Who invaded the earth and destroyed it?

The prophet saw a vision of the land that had already been destroyed by God based on the promised he made to destroy the land. . . . .The result of the destruction is what lead to the earth having no form and void. . . .

If Jeremiah is talking about a city then is Verse 23 ALSO describing a city?

The verse is talking about the land with the city is also a part of, no?. . . .

You indeed are being dishonest here . . . you have artfully dodged the verses in Jer 4 that do not fit your own narrative . . . for instance you seem to have skipped all these . . .

Jer 4:25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.

This NEVER happened at any point in time. The only invasion that occured during Jeremiah's time was the Babylonian invasion of Jerusalem . . . despite this disaster, the same bible still records that there were many jews who still DWELT in Jerusalem! We also do not read of all the birds disappearing off the face of the earth at any point in time.

The verse talked about God's judgment that was coming and the vision that the prophet saw. . . .Could it be one of the prophecies in the that did not happen? Or was not recorded in the book of Jeremiah?

What do you understand that Jeremiah was describing in verses 23 and 25?

I have already told you what I understand by the verse. . . .I repeat the subject heading from the NKJV reads "Sorrow for the doomed nation". . . . .I believe that subject heading is clear enough. . . .

Pastor AIO:
Of course the really fascinating thing here, which it seems that no one has hit upon yet, is the fact that these people were invoking Yahweh.  Do you get it?  These were his prophets calling on him to give them a message.  And indeed, a spirit sent from him came down, and it lied to them.

What are the implications of this? 

Noetic is a man that claims to talk to God often, in his dreams.  If we allow for the fact that his claims are authentic that leaves one more hurdle.  Can he trust that the revelation that he receives is the truth?  If he can, what I'd like to know are, what are his criteria for knowing whether or not God is lying to him? 

Is he arrogant enough to claim that God can never deceive him, perhaps because he is smarter than God and can see right through God when God tries to lie to him?  Or did God promise him that he wouldn't be lied to?  Well how can he be sure that that wasn't a lie. 

In fact perhaps all his hopes for Heaven in the hereafter are founded on a lie and the jokes on him.  Come judgement day, huxley and mazaje will be there on the right hand of yahweh busting their guts and rolling on the floor laughing at him as he gets thrown into a lake of fire.  Buuuuaahhahahahahahahahahahh.!!!

Classic. . . . . . . . .

Pastor AIO:
Are you an illiterate? What do you understand by objectivity? Did you go to school at all? What an unobjective illiterate!!!!

. . . .

Romeo4real:
This is a silly statement, and the one who replied "sure" was just as silly.

You are propagating your idea of what God"cannot" and "can" be. You are defining it with your own understanding and parameters.
The argument is not about what we "think" God "is", it is rather about "who" He says he is, and whether we believe that,  or not!  This is the difference between believers and non-believers.

Will you point to a god and let him tell people who he is by himself, or will you keep pointing and beating the myths written by ancient people about who or what the said the god they conceived was. . . . .God said without pointing to the god that said it or allowing the god to say it on his own is nothing other than telling people to believe what you are saying, no?

Romeo4real:
It is really a shame i came to this post so late.
I would have loved to teach Deep Shite and Mazeje or whatever his name is a thing or two regarding Einstein's Theory of relativity, the space-time continuum and Stephen Hawkins theories on  quantum physics, black holes, cosmic inflation, string theories, muons, tauons, neutrinos - and how they all challenge/affect E=Mc2, and give meaning to the space-time conundrum.

SHUT UP!!!. . . .You want to educate me eh? Have you finished educating yourself? . . . . .What has einstein's theory of relativity and stehpen hawkings theories of quantum physics, black holes, cosmic inflation, string theories etc have to do with the mythical jewish deity called Yahweh and the mythical creation account in the book of genesis whose authors do not even know what the stars are?. . . . .

Deep Sight:
^^^ I am honestly dumb-founded by your post.

You assert that man - mere man - CREATED Time? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

Good grief, where do i start from?

Your scientist friends do not even assert that. They assert that time was created at the moment of the big bang.

Mazaje, do you want to re-think that statement of yours before we proceed?

NO. . . .Don't get me wrong. . . .I did NOT say that made created what we call time. . . .Man created the idea of time to help him measure events, sequence events, to compare the durations of events and the intervals between them.
What has time got to do with god?. . . . .How did OOI create time?. . . . .

noetic16:
and what happened to your objectivity . . . . .since God called it JUDGEMENT? The same way u might receive judgement in HELL if u do not accept Him gift of mercy.

Do you know the meaning of objectivity? . . . . .I repeat good is good but when it comes to Yahweh good becomes something else. . . .Lie is a lie but not when it comes to Yahweh, when it come to yahweh it becomes "judgment" . . . Why do you keep shooting yourself in the foot noetic?. . . . Many of the tales told in the old testament were meant to justify the cruel acts of tribal leaders. After all, if you have god's blessing, slaughtering another tribe of humans for their land isn't immoral, it's good cause god says so. The stories were meant to justify the cruel acts of tribal leaders. destroy and despoil a land, r.ape their women sacrifice them as burnt offering to Yahweh. . . .It isn't a bad thing after all, if you have god's blessing, slaughtering another tribe of humans for their land and killing them for worshiping gods you do not subscribe to isn't immoral, it's good, cause god says so. That is the story of the old testament. . . .

Image123:
@mazaje and cohorts
Having it in mind that the Bible regards God as Lord of heaven and earth, we see that He is also judge(law). The police/law court punishes crime. It could be by denial of rights like freedom, it could even be capital  an execution.
Corporal punishment and firing squad is not a crime, this is law. Punishment will in most cases if not all, be considered a crime if it's not coming from the judge and his team. Perspective should be considered, not just action. Be men in understanding if you can be, not children.

What is wrong with you guys?. . . .Good is good but when it comes to your god it is something else. . . .Lie is a lie but when it comes to your god it is called judgment . . . . .One of the most liberating things I've ever done is abandon the idea of god, and all of the mental gymnastics that go with it, . . Believing requires a lot of insidious effort to create a mental lens based on the religion that one has been taught or made to accept be it christianity, hinduism, islam or whatever. . . . . The problem is that the believer continually has to decide what reality is, based on a constantly personally changing set of constructs of what the god idea requires to be true about the experience of one's life.

After abandoning this self-imposed tyranny I was finally free, and could experience of awe and wonder of existence itself,  with no need to contort everything to fit the god idea I was raised to believe in.

noetic16:
This is both dishonest and dogmatic, mazaje.

1. There were many things that described the dark ages and the dark age was not singularly characterised by religious beliefs but largely by anti-roman-empire criticism. The highlights of the dark-age was NOT religion. . ,  .which is quite contrary to the impression u are attempting to create here.

2. Those who considered religion are antithetical to reason are called free-thinkers. who EXACTLY are free-thinkers? these are persons who analyse issues and bring reasons independent of any religious beliefs . ,   .these dudes are called ATHEISTS in this century. How objective is any reasoning that rules out a possibility? how objective is any attempt to analyse creation and rule out the possibility of a creator?. The goons who came up with the ridiculous assertion that the dark ages are littered with religion are simply atheists . . . . .and their submission was not totally accepted.

I will concede that so many historians refer to the dark age differently, as pointed out by the wikipedia entry. . .

3. Religion has continued to influence this world in innumerable ways and is perhaps the most influential subject on the planet today. any attempt to state otherwise is simply dishonest and not objective.

Its possible that religion is one of the most influential subjects on the planet. . .Buts it effect is what we are talkin g about here not its influence. . .

dude, just name ONE western (first world developed nation) leader who is not a theist . . .  .you cannot name any.

What has that got to do with anything?. . . .Do the leaders of the developed world use their theistic beliefs when discharging their duties. . .When last did you hear any leader of the developed world calling on god to help them solve their health care delivery problems or their immigration problems?. . . .

1. is the American health care system independent of the knowledge of God? would we have the cures to diseases today without the help  and inspiration of God?. . . , No we definitely would not.

Which disease has you god provided cure for?. . . Where was your god when small pox killed about 300-500 million people?. . . .Your gods contribution to the development of the various malaria drugs in use today is what?. . .

I for one, consider it both unfortunate and misinformed for anyone to assume or believe that the scientific community is independent of God. Lets put aside your hatred and disbelief in God. . . . .if a God indeed created the world, would He be ignorant of the scientific creations of His creations (man)? . . . .I dont think so.

Last time I checked scientist have explored so many parts of the earth and the universe and did not see the name of any god written any where. . .

2. The separation of church from state is NOT anti-religion but largely liberalism and a tolerance for the non-religious. has liberalism brought more scientific development to the west than religion has?

What scientific development has religion brought to the west?. . . . .

3. Evolution is taught in schools because of the liberalism and NOT anti-religion posture of the powers that be. Do not misinterpret liberalism for anti-religion. allowing minority views and opinions a breathing space is not the same as victory for the anti-religion? otherwise, how do u explain the schools who also refuse to teach evolution? or the many holes in evolution?

The main message is that religion is not allowed to be taught in public schools. . . .Which shows a complete separation of religious teachings and state/public activities.

4. please stop mixing the facts. NASA was primarily set up in 1958 to counter the soveit intelligence in aeronautics and not to proof your imaginary doctrine that God does not exist.

If they believe in the concept that god created life on earth alone, I doubt that they will be spending billions of dollars exploring the universe looking for other forms of life, no?

EXACTLY the point.

All people around the world believe that the world would end . .  . .and that includes budhists, atheists, hindus and many others.
As such it is ridiculous on the part of anyone to state that this belief is responsible for the poor state of Africa.

What percentage of this people believe that the world will end during their life times. . . .You deliberately refuse to answer that question. . . .

why dont u convey a study on Arabs then and find out.

how do they drop their theist beliefs when matters of state are concerned? I think u have an exaggerated opinion of atheism.
Strategy, common sense, intelligence and intellectual superiority have ALWAYS been part of the Christian faith . . .perhaps u need to study the lives of Daniel, David, Saul, Esther, Deborah et all to have a gasp on biblical/ Godly intelligence.

A simple reading of the bible says you don't know what you are talking about. . . .

I laugh in japanese 

1. when Christianity was brought into Africa, Africans were NOT developed, that explains why they were used as slaves. Those who brought Christianity to Africa were far more deveoped than Africa, that explains why they had a need for slaves.

Africans had not developed at that time because their beliefs inhibited their development. . . .When the white people were busy developing space telescopes and discovery the cause and cure for diseases our ancestors were busy banishing people into the evil forest or sacrificing humans and animals to one god or the other. . . . .

2. Africa is not developed because it lacks leaders with foresight and not because of religion.

How will leaders with foresight come about when half of the people believe that the world will end during their life time. . . .

1. what u are talking about here is NOT religion but illiteracy. The people are illiterates and as such cannot think objectively.

People that are literate believe in crazy things as long as it is connected to religion. . . .Educated people believe that a man can travel for 200km on an empty tank, no?. . . . .

2. is the research for the cure of diseases independent of religion? how then do u explain the fact that there are many theist scientists?

Are you drunk? . . .Which religious doctrine has helped in the research for cancer or natural blindness. . . .What page of the bible can or should be used for the research for drugs that cure spinal cord injuries. . . .Theist scientist drop their religious beliefs when carrying out their scientific research no?. . . .Tell me one scientist that has discovered any drug that is as a direct result of his theistic beliefs. . . . .

Deep Sight:
^^^ God IS independent of EVERY OTHER THING.

If you can tell me what "Time" is - you will be perilously close to staring God in the face.

What has god get to do with time. . . .Time is a man made entity used as part of the measuring system, It is used to sequence events, to compare the durations of events and the intervals between them. What has that god to do with time?. . . .

Mudley313:
mr. jesus. i'm happy u're finally here to speak 4 your self (*sarcasm*)

so. . . while u were here on earth. . .

1. why did u not ever mention about "the bible"?

2. why did u not ever mention about christians n the religion "christianity"?

3. u are suppose to be god as well. why did u not write down "your word" while u were here in human form? or are u an illiterate god?

4. while u were here on earth u were a practicing jew. why are your followers following sumthin different?

O boi you harsh ohh. . . .

^^^
I might have gotten what you said wrongly. . .What is god?. . . .Can he be known on his own independent of other things. . . .

Deep Sight:
^^^ Absolutely spot on!

A God who is described as absolute truth and supposedly bearing such attributes as mercy cannot also be responsible for repeated injunctions to senseless genocide and ethnic cleansing. . . this smacks of an egoistic pagan deity whose injunctions probably originated from the bedrooms of the human kings of the Jews.

Sure. . . .

MyJoe:
^^^ The above is rather harsh. I personally do not possess any certainty, much less knowledge, that there are no revelations. I need spiritual people to help throw light on these awkward differences in material thought to flow from a single source.

Are you sure there is a single source?. . . .Buddhist have dreams involving reincarnations, buddist concepts and ideas, Christians have dreams involving stories in the bible, heaven and hell, while muslims have dreams involving the appearance of prophet mohammed(dreams that involve the appearance of prophet mohammed are encouraged in islam). . . . .Traditional african religion adherents have dreams involving their various gods and forefather. . . .What does that tell you?. . . .To me it tells me that the human mind is very complex and can imagine so many things. . . .

What is nuclearboy saying . . . . .Everybody just paints a picture of what ever concept of god he wants and uses the bible to buttress his/her idea of what god should be. . . .The all knowing, all loving, all good, all true, all powerful, all merciful attributes that christians ascribe to their god is contradictory and internally inconsistent. . . . .At a minimum, this conundrum reveals that believers do not understand their deity correctly.  He can not exist as described.

Deepsight what is God? and how do you come to the conclusion that singularity is God? . . . . . .

noetic16:
You are just helplessly dishonest  . . . . . .this is what wikipedia says
where EXACTLY in the above quote does wikipedia associate religion to the dark ages? 

Did you bother to read the entire entry on the dark ages from wikipedia or did you just pick out what you wanted to see? . . .Here is it from wikipedia. . . .

Enlightenment

"During the 17th and 18th centuries, in the Age of Enlightenment, many critical thinkers saw religion as antithetical to reason. For them the Middle Ages, or "Age of Faith", was therefore the polar opposite of the Age of Reason.[22] Kant and Voltaire, among others, were vocal in attacking the religiously dominated Middle Ages as a period of social regress, while Gibbon in The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire expressed contempt for the "rubbish of the Dark Ages""

dude, u FRAUDULENTLY  and IGNORANTLY claimed that the west is developing cos it has done away with religion. . .so I am asking u to name any western developed country who is an atheist? . . . . .why cant u name just one? 

YES the west has developed because it has DUMPED religion and has decided to use reason instead of blind religious mythical narratives and dogma as it source of guiding principle. . . .Which of the leaders of the developed world believes that we are in the end of days?. . .Which leader of the developed world through their actions tells you that he believes in any of the religions Africans believe in? Will president Obama spend or invest almost a trillion dollars into the American health care system if he believes that prayer cures diseases?. . . .Will the developed countries spend trillions of dollars in maintaining the defense apparatus if they believe that God alone protects them?. . . There is a COMPLETE separation of church and state in all developed countries. . . .Why do they allow evolution to be taught in their public schools and not religious studies?. . . . .Why are they spending billions on NASA and ESA trying to find out evidence for the scientific origin of the universe or if intelligent life form exist in other parts of the universe if they truly believe that god created the universe and is only concerned with earth as written in all religious mythical books?

This is LAME.

This belief is held all over the world. . . .including the middle east, where they are fast developing. The world ending does not exempt believers from a good and healthy living.

The belief that the world will end is not a world wide belief. . .It is a belief held by people that subscribe to the Abrahamic faiths. . . .The people of the middle east believe that islam will conquer the world first before it comes to an end. They are more interested in that, hence the need for them to develop themselves and make sure they aid that process and make his happen according to their beliefs. . .Majority of them do not believe that the earth will come to an end during their life times. . . .

and did u conduct a survey?

No, but a survey was conducted on Africans no?. . . .

This is laughable . . . .cos this beliefs are held all over the world. all major world leaders are openly theists . . . so what are u talking about? 

They are openly theist but they have learn to drop their theistic beliefs when matters of the state are concerned. . . .The COMPLETE separation of church and state is what has made them to develop. . . .

The only thing stopping Africa from developing is greed, corruption, lack of foresight and poverty.

The ONLY thing stopping africa from developing is our silly and ridiculous beliefs in absolute NONSENSE. . . .Its not just the imported religions and their gods that we too much believe in but also our traditional belief and mentality. . . .African in this age and time still believe that sacrificing the head of an albino to some imaginary indigenous gods will make them rich. . . .There was an Aljazeera documentary that ran last year on this phenomenon in Mali. . . .These ridiculous and obsolete beliefs are prevalent all over Africa. . . How do you expect to build fortune 500 companies when the people truly believe that sacrificing human heads to imaginary gods or demons will make them super rich?. . . .Its always on mythical believe or another from mammy water, to evil spirits to demons etc. . . . .

How do you expect people to have foresight when they believe in various kind of nonsense. . . .Why research on cure to disease when so many people truly believe that some disease are caused by witches and demons and can only be cured by offering prayers to gods or babalawo?. . . .I repeat why spend time fighting corruption when half the people believe that the world is going to end during their life time and they are going to go to an imaginary better place and enjoy forever?. . . . . .