₦airaland Forum

Donzman:
Here is a pertinent question: WHAT SORT OF DEMOCRACY IS THIS WHERE THE VICE PRESIDENT IS INDICTED AND THE PRESIDENT HIMSELF IS NOT?

Common sense tells us that indicting the vice president of corruption is equal to indicting the president but not in Nigeria ofcourse.

oh dear!!!!!!!! Donzman has come again

Heard a new definition of democracy
Is that your idea of democracy

You got me laughing and rolling on the floor, God bless whatever brought me to this site. Am having a good laugh

It has become fashionable these days to ridicule INEC, politicians when they want to be seen as democrats (going by Nigerian definition of the word) adopt the slogan "INEC is not ready for election" or "INEC is not serious". This slogan has become more common with the exclusion of some candidates from list of contestants in accordance with the provisions of the constitution.

Virtually every politician and political parties know better than INEC how to conduct elections. The AC is engaged in everyday unpaid lectures to INEC on how better to do its job, NDP has recently initiated a court case against INEC for ill-preparedness.

But what I find very disturbing is that less than 30 days to election most of these parties have no well thought out programmes to revamp the economy, Nigerians have no clue what their programmes are. The thought of classifying them leftwing, rightwing or center relative to their programmes  is such a wild dream.

Orji Kalu of PPA came up with an old fashioned doggy manifesto, some of his campaign promises include "free education" (that promise dates back to Tafawa Balewa era ), "Reclaim Bakassi from Cameroun" (God knows how he hopes to do that? Maybe promising the Country WAR if elected ).

Buhari on the otherhand is planning to restructure and stabilize Nigeria. As if we are still fighting Civil War, may be needs to be reminded this is 2007 and not 1967.
No clear economic programme to re-engineer the economy.

Then I like to ask, should'nt these parties spend more time telling Nigerians about their well thought out economic pragrammes and canvassing for votes than being paranoid about the electoral process?

I don't know about you but for me the question should be "How ready are the Political Parties" and not INEC.

Thanks arzorji for that link

I have said it before, if there is any tyrant or dictator I know it is Atiku. Is it not worrysome that this guy as VP is able to control the media to lie against the Nigerian State, FG and the constitution. If such a man becomes President God knows how he will control and manipulate our lives.

He is not qualified simple, if the heavens will fall let it fall.
I think we are trying too hard to protect this so called nascent democracy and that is why we are not growing. Let Atiku and AC do their worst lets see.

Bill Gate:
Yes LADYT I was following your post with Echidime about Igbo culture and change of names, thats all nothing more. please don't mind me ooooooo I just wated to annoye Mckren Ok.

Take care

You failed cos Mckren never gets angry on Nairaland

4 Play:
Under our legal system, the final arbiters on the constitution are the courts.Not the executive or the legislative branch but the judiciary

What Iwu is effectively saying ,on behalf of his puppet master(Obasanjo),is that he not the courts should determine the interpretation of the constitution.His word is final and he knows better than the damned judiciary,after all he can read the constitution

If Nigerians prefer this,so be it.It is noteworthy that the National Bar Association have come out against Iwu's decision

The courts interprete the constitution when it is not clear not to implement it. Sections of the constitution that has to do with election will be implemented by INEC and that is what INEC has done. AC are trying to use the courts to circumvent the constitution and that is not what the courts are all about my brother.

Those who go about telling us how Atiku has won all his court cases will not tell us how he lost 2 cases simultaneously last thursday. The beauty of it all is that the same Justice Babs Keuwunmi is at the centre of it all. This Judge previously held that INEC had no powers to disqualify candidates but had powers to ensure that candidates met constitutional requirements, Atiku and his cohorts ran to the media claiming unexistent victory, they now went further to initiate proceedings against Iwu claiming he disobeyed court order.
That same Judge who made that pronouncement of which Iwu is accused of disobeying court order struck out a case of contempt against Iwu. Who is fooling who??

I have told people in this forum to be careful with Atiku and AC, they are trying to re-write the constitution. They think they are smarter than everyone else. they SAY half truth and fill up the rest with propaganda.
Another Judge justice Binta Nwako in another case involving a state gubernitorial candidate held on the same thursday that INEC must not necessarily wait for court orders before candidates are disqualified, that the existing legislation as provided by the constitution could actually disqualify candidates by default. A position which corroborates what Iwu has always said.

I have said it before in this forum, Atiku thinks Prof. Maurice Iwu is Mallam Uba Sani who he puts words in his mouth, he thinks if he tells Iwu "you have no right to disqualify me" Iwu will in the same vain say "it is a lie I have the right to disqualify you", so that the issue of debate will now be questioning INEC's limits of powers and not provisions of the constitution. He got it all wrong the Professor thinks 5 steps ahead of him.

@Ugwumba

When I read your first post I was impressed, it was such a brilliant one and I must confess I needed to read it over and over again thrice to counter it. Your latest post has not in anyway countered mine. I need you to do a more thorough job and come up with something better or admit that am right like a gentle man will do.

@Dansami

When Sultan Sa'ad Abubakar was chosen, I like many Nigerians thought that will launch a new generation of Nigerian leaders. I thought it was in line with our quest for generational shift and that he will bring his wealth of experience to bear. As soldier who has worked as defence attache in foreign diplomatic mission he should know what his people truly needs.
He comes onboard instead of working seriously and playing roles that will be geared to getting our people out of poverty he comes onboard and begins by telling people what they want to hear.

For me those are the trademarks of deception of the elite class on the Nigerian masses, they come on exarcebate ethnic and religous tension as if they believe in those values they potray and then exploit the situation to loot the country why our people suffer.

Its about time our leaders begin to tell us and do for us what we need and not what we want to hear. Arguing about religous signs on naira rather than its purchasing power is a clear example of telling people what they want to hear and not doing for them what they need. That in my view is hypocrisy

Firstly, Chapter IV (Fundamental Rights) of the 1999 Nigerian constitution guarantees the following:

Section 38 - Right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion.

Section 39: Right to freedom of expression and the press.

The Sultan has the right, as do all Nigerians, to express publicly or privately his thoughts on the ongoing electoral process in Nigeria. You may disagree with him, but this neither makes him indolent or foolish.

I do agree with that, I only thought Dansami was suggesting that the Sultan by virtue of his office has the constitutional right to adjudge the electoral process. But from the point of view of expressing his opinion like every other Nigerian then he is right. But you got to also accept that by virtue of that same freedom of expression every other Nigerian has a right to express what they make of him.

Further, the issues he addressed, have also been commented on by others (the respected Wole Soyinka, for example).

Wole Soyinka is obviously repected but his comment on this issue was lacking in logic. How do you explain a Wole Soyinka suggesting that Atiku/OBJ should have been impeached as a result of there indictment on the PTDF scandal, meaning he does accept that they were both culpable but he does not accept a situation where Atiku is excluded from election as a result of the same indicment in accordance with the constitution of the federal republic of Nigeria. Is he suggesting that Atiku is guilty of fraud enough as to be impeached but yet innocent enough of the same offence to stand election?? I simply don't know where he stands anymore.

The issue with Atiku's disqualification is not because of the man himself, but the entirety of our existence as a truly democratic country.

All true democracies are founded on the separation of powers, the rule of law and the inalienable right of its citizens to vote and be voted for.

Sorry the right to be voted for is not inalienable. otherwise there will be no sections 137/182 in our constitution.  That section provides what requirements you must meet to seek elective office, if you don't meet them you have simply lost the right to be voted for. But that does  not mean you are no longer Nigerian. Hence the right to be voted for is not unforfeitable or inalienable.

1. No court has, as yet, convicted Atiku of any offence, that disqualifies him from being voted for.

You are simply writting a new version of the constitution, section 137 did not say convicted but indicted.  It did not even say it can only be that from the court of law, it could be an administrative panel of enquiry or tribunal or judicial commision of enquiry.

2. Atiku reserves the right to challenge the outcome of the Administrative panel of inquiry - this right is enshrined in so many sections of our constitution that it beggars belief that people discuss this as if the man is commiting a crime by challenging his disqualification on these grounds.

He should go ahead, no one can take that right off him and we wish him luck. But he has to realise that he can not go to one backyard court in lagos to get judgement and hope to bully every other person with it. He has to be patient in case the opposing parties wish to appeal the case up till the supreme court.

3. INEC and the executive branch are duty bound to respect the rule of law, and we destroy the very foundation of our nascent democracy by suggesting that, because of our dislike of the man, we are prepared to sit idly by while our dear country is destroyed.

Spot on, and INEC is doing just that. They are implementing the constitution (which happens to be the fundamental law of the land) to the letter. The constitution is supreme and prevails over every other law in case of conflictions (see section 1 of constitution).
The problem we have is that those who continually lecture us on "respect for rule of law" simply don't want to practice what they preach. Why can't Atiku and AC respect the constitution.

4. Why the fear of Atiku? If OBJ is so sure of the merits of a Yaradua/Jonathan ticket, why not let the electorate decide. All he needs to do, with all the machinery of power at his disposal, is ensure the elections are free and fair.

No one is afraid of him, we are practising constitutional democracy and must adhere to the provisions of the constitution at all times. We demonstrated this during the third term debate otherwise we would have allowed OBJ to run for a third term in the hope to vote him out since it is all about the decision of the electorate. We can not flout a section of the constitution for the fun of testing the will of the electorate.
No one wants third term in Aso Rock for either Atiku or OBJ. OBJ has swallowed his ambition, Atiku should be man enough to swallow his if he truly loves democracy. We want something new in Aso Rock.

5. If we allow the electoral process to continue this way, then we institutionalize the supremacy of the Presidency to decide who can contest in an election - powers I am certain our constitution does not confer on it. How easy would it be for a president to disqualify all serious contenders by accusing them of an offence, setting up a 'kangaroo' administrative panel, gazetting a predetermined conclusion and ignoring any and all rulings by the courts.

The message is clear, if you don't embezzle you don't need to be friends with the President to stand election. Buhari has been in Opposition for 8 years now no one is after him. People have the idea of looting the treasury and as soon as you hold them accountable they join opposition forces in the hope to claim that there ordeals are politically motivated. Nigerians are no longer decieved.

Anarchy, my friends, is not a useful alternative to democracy

Anarchy is brewing only in the heads of those who think Nigeria is all about their ambition, if they don't accept their faith and work towards the progress of the Nigerian state then Nigeria will move on behind them.

People should stop bullying others from saying what they feel.
I simply don't know what accepting or suggesting that the Sultan erred has got to do with the Unity of Nigeria.
if Orji Kalu, OBJ, Wole Soyinka, Ojukwu, Obi of Onitsha, Owu of Egba land, Pastor Chris Okotie or anybody for that matter talks crap people will simply say it so I don't know why that of the Sultan is different.

Nigeria is 47 years, if at 47 merely arguing that a Sultan has erred will threaten the unity of Nigeria then we have a problem. As a matter of fact setting a prejudice for the electoral process is even more threatening to the unity and stability of this country.

I will not mince words in saying that as long as he speaks publicly on controversial political issues, he should be ready to accept criticisms associated with making such statements.
People should stop bullying others from saying their mind.

4. That he will replace local content with community content in the Niger Delta

Do you understand that?? cos I dont

@Mamajama

What a sinister tactics, you don carry yabbing me initiate contact with babe now. Make you try sha!!!!

[size=24pt]The man those who spearhead this smear campaign against Iwu want to rule this country has an even more fraudulent history.[/size][/color][color=#990000][/color][color=#990000][color=#990000][/color]

MAMAJAMA:
why you no ask your baby why she dey flirt with the guy in the 1st place.

nope that is not what this is about, I think Bill Gate is only kidding cos LadyT has always been my friend. She was not flirting with me, she was only saying hello to an old pal.

you are still quoting Lai Ibrahim, this people distort court Judgements and I have learnt not to listen to them.

The latest Judgement by Justice Babs Kuwumi was not in Atiku's favour but Lai Mohammad and co ran to the media suggesting otherwise. The Judge held that INEC had no powers to disqualify anyone but however INEC had powers to verify candidates to ensure they meet constitutional requirements. A position that has always been what INEC says, how is that a victory for Atiku??

They now went further to initiate a contempt case against IWU, do you know that 3 days ago when this case was supposed to be heard, Turaki's legal team withdrew their case and was fined by the court for wasting their time.

I simply don't listen to lai Mohammad, so please come up with something better.

I pleaded with you to quote the constitution and not Lai Mohammad or AC. I have even provided you a link to the constitution.

1. (1) This Constitution is supreme and its provisions shall have binding force on the authorities and persons throughout the Federal Republic of Nigeria.

(2) The Federal Republic of Nigeria shall not be governed, nor shall any persons or group of persons take control of the Government of Nigeria or any part thereof, except in accordance with the provisions of this Constitution.

(3) If any other law is inconsistent with the provisions of this Constitution, this Constitution shall prevail, and that other law shall, to the extent of the inconsistency, be void.

2. (1) Nigeria is one indivisible and indissoluble sovereign state to be known by the name of the Federal Republic of Nigeria.

(2) Nigeria shall be a Federation consisting of States and a Federal Capital Territory.

1. (1) This Constitution is supreme and its provisions shall have binding force on the authorities and persons throughout the Federal Republic of Nigeria.

(2) The Federal Republic of Nigeria shall not be governed, nor shall any persons or group of persons take control of the Government of Nigeria or any part thereof, except in accordance with the provisions of this Constitution.

(3) If any other law is inconsistent with the provisions of this Constitution, this Constitution shall prevail, and that other law shall, to the extent of the inconsistency, be void.

2. (1) Nigeria is one indivisible and indissoluble sovereign state to be known by the name of the Federal Republic of Nigeria.

(2) Nigeria shall be a Federation consisting of States and a Federal Capital Territory.

1. (1) This Constitution is supreme and its provisions shall have binding force on the authorities and persons throughout the Federal Republic of Nigeria.

(2) The Federal Republic of Nigeria shall not be governed, nor shall any persons or group of persons take control of the Government of Nigeria or any part thereof, except in accordance with the provisions of this Constitution.

(3) If any other law is inconsistent with the provisions of this Constitution, this Constitution shall prevail, and that other law shall, to the extent of the inconsistency, be void.

2. (1) Nigeria is one indivisible and indissoluble sovereign state to be known by the name of the Federal Republic of Nigeria.

(2) Nigeria shall be a Federation consisting of States and a Federal Capital Territory.

NOW WHY IS AC QUOTING ELECTORAL ACT AND WANTING ELECTORAL ACT TO TAKE PRECEDENCE OVER THE CONSTITUTION ?
I simply don't know how a group of people are arguing on the part of Illigelality merely because they don't like OBJ?

@GNature

Here you go

http://www.nigeria-law.org/ConstitutionOfTheFederalRepublicOfNigeria.htm

I am simply not sure of how a adminastrative panel of enquiry must be set up, who must set it up and who actually set this one up.

However I ordinarily like to think a Judicial commision of enquiry is set up by a chief Judge but Administrative panel of enquiry by the president or state government.


that does not mean I am wrong, if you tell me what section of the constitution that dwells on this I will post it here right away cos I got a copy myself.

Can you please advice us or post dossiers or parts of constitution that comments on how panels are set up and how this particular panel was set up. To buttress your point.


Please I don't accept quotes from Lai Mohammad or the AC. I want quotes from the constitution.

GNature:
@McKren

I have just read section 137 and I have included the applicable quote above.

The administrative panel of inquiry must be set up by a Judge, not the abitrary type OBJ set up with his ministers as members. The panel that was set up was illegal and is not applicable as referenced in section 137.

I simply did not see any aspect of the quote that suggests the above. Please read it slowly once again.

Maybe you should check the meaning of the word "OR".   An administrative panel of enquiry is not set up by a Judge.

@GNature

Go read section 137 yourself, it did not say Guilty but Indicted
it did not say courts alone, it says Adminitrative panel of enquiry could indict as well

My brother people should stop using the courts as a tool to circumvent the constitution. The court is only there to interprete laws that are unclear and not to circumvent it.

Atiku is not even denying this allegation so Idont know what the fuss is about. Senate will still indict him and OBJ on Tuesday.

@Dayokanu

The constitution is interpreted when it is not clear, section 137 is written in plain english and very clear. INEC did not disqualify Atiku, the constitution did. What Atiku and his cohorts are praying is that the Electoral Act should take precedence over the constitution which isthe fundamental law of the land.


Read Wole Soyinka's comment once again. He thinks OBJ/Atiku should have been impeached on PTDF scandal meaning he does agree that they are culpable thus their indictment is just. Now our constitution does not permit people indicted of fraud to contest election and Wole Soyinka is arguing otherwise? where does he really stand?
I must confess I do respect Wole Soyinka but I dont know what he represents anymore? and I dont think i should swallow whatever he says merely because he is a professor and prolific writter.

@Dayokanu

I have learnt not to listen to what Olisa Agbakoba says, he gives his personal opinion on issues and claims it is that of the NBA. Olisa Agbakoba has been a rebel all his life and does not mind making illogical statements just in his quest to be seen as an activist.

He claims to be a respecter of the rule of law and does not know that the constitution which happens to be the fundamental law of the land must be adhered to no matter who is at the recieving end.

Why will I take an NBA chairman seriously when he thinks, no matter his prejudice or reservation,  in a country where people vote for parties and not individuals in election that a VP has the right to change parties and retain office. A situation which even the Senate President frowns at.
Tell me whose responsibility it is to implement section 137 of the constitution that has to do with seeking elective office if not INEC?

Pat Utomi and Buhari are trying to sound politically correct, they do not believe in what they are saying. Afterall when government adopted the white paper on indictment of Atiku and others Buhari was the first to exclaim that Atiku is finished politicaly. If after having a meeting with Atiku, Buhari is now suggesting otherwise I think we should be asking Buhari what deal he struck with Atiku thats able to change his view drastically within a forthnight.

Disciplinarian my foot, Buhari among every other thing is scrambling for Atiku voters. Cheap desperation, to score cheap political points.

There is simply no justification for the election of Omisore, however that the constitution was not adhered to 2003 election does not suggest that we should not follow the constitution to the letter in 2007. we will not be growing as a nation if we do that.

mo wapa:
I seriously want to believe that the political section of Nairaland is populated by mature people that can discern, understand sensitive political and religious issues. To those young blood here, please note the Sultan is both a political and Spiritual leader to almost half the population of Nigeria. Anything that would cause or threaten our unity should not be allowed, peace! BE SENSITIVE AND CIVILIZED IN YOUR OPINION.

This present Sultan has not been sensitive and civilized in his opinion.
now i simply don't know how to remind a general in the Nigerian Army that we are in the Federal Republic of Nigeria and not Kingdom of Nigeria. Why is he looking for constitutional role??/.
I personally lived in Sokoto for 1year and I know what the Sultanate is about. This Sultan is simply overshooting. Macciddo was not like this and I think Northern elders should call him to order so as to preserve the sanctity of his office.

I believe the Sultan has every constitutional right to voice his concerns regarding the forthcoming elections

Dont remember what section of the constitution that says that please remind us

Now Atiku is going to go to court, challenge INEC's actions and elections will be postponed!

who says, Atiku will pursue this case up till the supreme court before he will get a final verdict whether positive or negative. That final verdict will not even come this year, by then Yaradua or whoever will have had more than 200 days in office.

Danmasani:
It is unfortunate that some Nigerians side with contempt and nonconstitutional moves. A court of appeal ruled that INEC had to power to barr Atiku from contesting in the April Elections. Yet she decided to read her own constitution (the one from Aso Rock) and threw him out. Atiku will not make a single difference if he is in the race or not. AD nor the man is not winning the elections, so whats with all the wahala to barr him. Now he will take INEC to court, waste time and scheduled elections will be delayed. Obasanjo will stay in Aso rock for more time and destroy the country more in the name of good governance!

There is no single truth in any sentence of this comment

Albert09:
INEC is really treading on a dangerous path. The Chairman and other senior officials of INEC face contempt charges. Something tells me the F.G is not interested in holding elections. The just want to create choas

Two Atiku cases were thrown out of court yesterday, one of them is this contemptous charge you talking about. The opposition dont want election, if they do they should abide by the provisions of the constitution.