₦airaland Forum

agaugust: [size=14pt]

I did not write up that Wikipedia page, a South African did it. The info says 32 Battalion are also counted among the nicknamed Recces. If your own South African history is wrongly written go home and blame yourselves.

Whatever, one of the best experienced fighters in SADF were the 32 Battalion made up of Angolans blacks and South African whites mixed with foreign mercenary European/American whites.

I have proved a point, the experiened soldiers of South Africa no longer exist as a fighting unit, they are dead, disbanded, too old, retired, flushed out by Mandela's ANC, or run away overseas.

99% of today's South African armed forces have ZERO war experience . Live with this fact day by day, you hear me ? [/size]

They were known as "the terrible ones" not "recces". The enemy would run away and leave their equipment if they heard tha buffalo battalion was advancing towards their position. The SADF would use them if it didn't want its presence to be known to its enemies in the battlefield. Or if it didn't to make UNITA seem like rag tag force which couldn't fight on its own. The later being the reason why this unit was sent alongside a SWATF battalion into Angola in 87,before regular SADF unit could be sent. Whom the enemy will quickly report "we are fighting white South Africans". Also remember it was absorbed into other SADF units. You do know many Angolans and Namibians whom fought on the SA side during the bush war,live in SA right now. And have SA citizenships,cause in their homelands they'd be seen as "traitors". Many Koevoet and 32 battalion men are employed mostly in game parks.

agaugust: 32 Battalion had recce wing, and part of the recces of South Africa. You don't know your own country's history. LOL !

"32 Battalion was expanded to 6 infantry companies, a recce wing, and a support company consisting of 81 mm mortar, anti-tank and machine gun sections." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/32_Battalion_(South_Africa)

South African special forces from 1975 to 1993 were the same ones nicknamed the Recces. Those are the ONLY experienced special forces in South Africa and they are 99% dead, disbanded, retired, flush down the toilet by Zulu/Xhosa ANC blackmen, or escaped overseas to avoid revenge atta.cks by blacks after apartheid ended. Do I have to teach you your own history?

The name Recces was cancelled by ANC Mandela and co.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_African_Special_Forces

SANDF special forces of today have ZERO war experience, please don't hate your weak soldiers, accept them, they are all yours

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The parabats have an reccon wing too. Elite units have. Reccon wings. The 32 battalion had that capability,but they were never part of the SADF special forces brigade. It is clearly written on your source that they're light infantry not special forces. Still you don't know what you're talking about. Confusing elite infantry with special forces. Soon you'll be saying 61 Mech are special forces.

Henry120: An air refuelling probe can be attached to any platform.

You've killed your own Argument.

Air refuelling means limitless range for any platform with an Air refuelling capability. As long as the Air tanker can get there, the platform would refuel.

Attack helicopters have ammo bins were probes are normally mounted in transport helicopters henry. Also air refuelling doesn't make range of air platforms limitless. If that was possible the South African air force could've just flown some of its Gripens from Sweden to South Africa. Engines would fail along the way from heat.

Henry120: How are you able to copy photos from nairaland?

Just click it or tap and hold if you're on your ipad. It'll give you options from copy,save etc

agaugust: .
[size=14pt]The most battle experienced special forces alive and active in modern battle today....

.....are those of Nigeria ![/size]

.

ill equipped and trained. Not any close to SA and Zim SF. Your specials forces=SA army pathfinders.

agaugust: You just proved me to be very correct, thanks. From 1994 the newly formed SANDF special forces were fresh in-experienced recruits that replaced the old apartheid SADF white-man led and 'borrowed' Angolan citizens war experienced special forces/recces.


Disbanded
" .As one of the results of the negotiations between the National Party and the ANC, the 32 Battalion was disbanded in March 1993 and its members were retired to the town of Pomfret, South Africa.

The guys who did so much dying and fighting for this country were just sort of disbanded on the spur of the moment. It just isn't right. I think it is terrible. I think they were betrayed, quite honestly.

—Colonel Jan Breytenbach
Many members of the unit later helped to found or joined private military companies such as Executive Outcomes and Sandline International, which ironically fought on the side of the Angolan government against UNITA ."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/32_Battalion_(South_Africa)


From May 1994 till today July 2014, SANDF special forces have NOT fought any real war, Parabats fought Seleka and ran away, there is ZERO record of any real war history for the current SANDF special forces of today.

South African special forces are called a "Brigade" in quotation marks because they are not really up to a brigade in numbers today.

Even the disbanded recces 32 battalion was just about 600 men, the whole South African military involved in Bush war was just 4,000 regular army. The recces were not even up to half that number. About 540 of the 600 man 32 Battalion were Angolan citizens fighting for South Africa on UNITA's side of Jonas Savimbi.


Many of the white-men officers are even Europeans and American 'Mercenaries' who traveled to join the war and help their white brothers in South African special forces.

" .There was always a sprinkling of whites originating from countries like Great Britain, the old Rhodesia, Portugal and the USA amongst its leadership cadre ."

The truth has leaked out today.... http://flecha.co.uk/

South African famous recces are dead and gone to the grave like old roger in my nursery rhymes

.

Regarding the Portuguese,Americans,British and Australians they came from Rhodesia after the Ian Smith government fell,the SADF offered short contracts. South Africans(special forces and the special task force) too where in Rhodesia.

32 Battalion isn't and was never part of the SA special forces brigade. Only Rhodesian(now Zimbabwe) white operators,part of the Selous Scouts were absorbed into the SA special forces brigade. After the government of Ian Smith fell. Augubugubu doesn't know what he is talking about.

Henry120: Exactly. I don't see a problem with that.

A single accident at the production can stop production,without other sources. Any force would at a difficult situation.

Henry120: I don't know if you don't know what you're talking about or just feel like lying to yourself. the fact is, with mid-air refuelling for both rotary and fixed wing air assets, the range of both helicopters and planes/ fighter jets is limitless if countries posses the capability.

Stop acting stupi'd @Henry120. Have you ever seen the Apache,Cobra,Rooivalk,Tiger,Mi-24/35,MI-28,Z-10 or other helicopters in that class air refuelling?. Air refuelling requires an aircraft to have an aerial refuelling probe. Again range isn't limitless with aerial refuelling.

agaugust: You just proved me to be very correct, thanks. From 1994 the newly formed SANDF special forces were fresh in-experienced recruits that replaced the old apartheid SADF white-man led and 'borrowed' Angolan citizens war experienced special forces/recces.


Disbanded
" .As one of the results of the negotiations between the National Party and the ANC, the 32 Battalion was disbanded in March 1993 and its members were retired to the town of Pomfret, South Africa.

The guys who did so much dying and fighting for this country were just sort of disbanded on the spur of the moment. It just isn't right. I think it is terrible. I think they were betrayed, quite honestly.

—Colonel Jan Breytenbach
Many members of the unit later helped to found or joined private military companies such as Executive Outcomes and Sandline International, which ironically fought on the side of the Angolan government against UNITA ."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/32_Battalion_(South_Africa)


From May 1994 till today July 2014, SANDF special forces have NOT fought any real war, Parabats fought Seleka and ran away, there is ZERO record of any real war history for the current SANDF special forces of today.

South African special forces are called a "Brigade" in quotation marks because they are not really up to a brigade in numbers today.

Even the disbanded recces 32 battalion was just about 600 men, the whole South African military involved in Bush war was just 4,000 regular army. The recces were not even up to half that number. About 540 of the 600 man 32 Battalion were Angolan citizens fighting for South Africa on UNITA's side of Jonas Savimbi.


Many of the white-men officers are even Europeans and American 'Mercenaries' who traveled to join the war and help their white brothers in South African special forces.

" .There was always a sprinkling of whites originating from countries like Great Britain, the old Rhodesia, Portugal and the USA amongst its leadership cadre ."

The truth has leaked out today.... http://flecha.co.uk/

South African famous recces are dead and gone to the grave like old roger in my nursery rhymes

.

After 94 the SANDF didn't recruit nor integrate any foreign SF personnel. General Meiring clearly said in that video,that units absorbing soldiers from 32 battalion will benefit from their experience. Again you confuse SA special forces with the 32 battalion. You're pathetic.

Henry120: Obviously. Where would it else be based?

That equals to "one source".

Henry120: Does that capability exist?

Nope. They carry external fuel tanks. An aerial refuelling probe would disturb the chin mounted cannon and FLIR.

Henry120: DICON produces all the Ammo for the military and police of nigeria. I don't see any logistics problem.

DICON is a Nigerian company. And only based in Nigeria.

Henry120: DICON produces all the Ammo for the military and police of nigeria. I don't see any logistics problem.

DICON is Nigerian company.

Henry120: Do military helicopters not carry out mid Air refuelling? Or you're to blind and haven't seen black-hawks carry out mid air refuelling?

We talking about attack helicopters here.

Henry120: The A-129 is an Agile, very manoeuvrable helicopter. Range is infinite with Air-Air refuelling capabilities. Range isn't a factor. Neither do I believe the range of the rooivalk. It is clearly doctored.

There is also the issue of Price. No one would pay 40 million dollars for a helicopter, not even the americans. It is not just feasible.


There is also the question of reliance, the A-129 is a more reliable combat tested helicopter, the availability of spares and it's long history of service in the italian Airforce. It has seen action in Angola all through to Iraq and afghanistan.

The T-129 is designed to incorporate turkish technology, it carries a wonderful array of weapons and built to operate in a hot, mountainous and humid climate of southern turkey, especially in the kurdistan region where turkey is engaged in military operations.


Politically, the italians would definitely support the turks in their bid to join the E-U with this cooperation.

I won't respond to some rubbish in your post like price,aerial refuelling etc. But here's the thing technology transfer was part of the deal,Turkey wanted to produce some of the helicopters at home. Incorporating their technology. The reason why you've that $40m price. Agile? The deal would've paved the way for the Rooivalk lite which could've been smaller scout type attack helicopter similar to the A129 and Tiger and that could've meant a more agile variant. When it comes to reliance and availability. The Rooivalk is above most helicopters the mission in the DRC is further proving this. Also you can refuel and rearm it almost everywhere. Meaning during engagements the bird prey will be over watching the troops and giving support at any given time. Unlike some helicopters in its class which will have to go back to base to refuel,checks and rearm.

agaugust: [size=14pt]South African recces are mostly white-men or Angolan blacks NOT South African blacks.

"
32-Battalion, of which Colonel Jan Breytenbach was the founding commander, became the most controversial unit in the South African Army because of the secrecy surrounding it. Its story is virtually the story of the Angolan/Namibian war, because its involvement in it was greater than any other South African unit.The battalion primarily consisted of black troops and NCOs originating from virtually every tribe in Angola. They were led by white South African officers and NCOs ."

http://flecha.co.uk/

South African recces unit or force is DEAD....DISBANDED IN MARCH 26TH 1993

You have no war experienced special forces black men any more, unless Angolan's are now the top fighters in South African army.

The approximately 120 former white-men recces were mostly flushed out by Zulu/Xhosa ANC for apartheid reasons, the approximately 20 men left in SANDF today are too old to fight high tempo long endurance war.

95% of today's SANDF have zero combat experience. FACT !!!

.[/size]

PHOTO 1 : THE FAMOUS SOUTH AFRICAN RECCES ARE NOW DISBANDED, DEAD, TOO OLD, RETIRED, FLUSHED OUT, OR ESCAPED OVERSEAS

PHOTO 2 : CURRENT NIGERIAN ARMY YOUNG BLOOD, EXPERIENCED AND BATTLE TESTED SPECIAL FORCES IN WAR ZONE

.

You don't know what you're talking about. 1. Recces after 94 started only recruiting South Africans. 2. Foreigners in the Specials forces were Rhodesian selous scouts. 3.32 battalion aren't special but elite light infantry,after disbanding they were incorporated into other SADF units. General Meiring is on record saying those units will benefit from 32 Battalion men cause they were highly experienced in COIN and Conventional ops. 3. Endurance? The SA special forces fought for more than 13 hours in CAR alongside the parabats without taking any casualties. 4. Knowledge and training remains the same.

agaugust: SANDF had less casualties in Congo DRC because South African soldiers were hiding behind the backs of Tanzanian soldiers who are brave, bold and professional, they took the bullets on behalf of the cowardly SANDF men, the Tanzanians were asked by the UN to lead and protect SANDF, the Tanzanian/Malawian soldiers died in the front to keep the South African soldiers alive at the back.

Nigerian soldiers died in many NOT all engagement with Bokos, why? Because our men are courageous face to face combatants, who do hand to hand fighting in civilian residential areas house to house combat. How does an army use heavy and long range weapons against an enemy wearing civilian clothes and shooting from inside innocent people's houses with women and children everywhere? Should we use mortar and RPG on our own civilians?

South Africa has NEVER been tested in a homeland COIN war, so let us see you will use long range grenade launchers and mortars on your own wives and children mixed with insurgents in civilian clothes, so we can count how many collateral damages your own family will suffer

1. Name the town,battle or village on which the SANDF hid behind TZ force,You'll ignore this question. 2. COIN? Do you know MK,SWAPO,AZAPO,ZANU,FRELIMO?

Henry120: How is it a problem?

Nigeria makes the 7.62mm and other types of Ammo, and probably still makes the NATO round. I don't see a problem.

Standardisation allows you to get spares,ammo etc from different sources. Look at the SANDF today their only source of ammo for the R4 is only from Denel PMP.

agaugust: .

[size=16pt] South African Soldiers are poorly tained...United Nations complains.

SANDF trained by Brigadier-General who cheated to pass military exams

Fancy SANDF photos you see here are deceptions from a rag tag unprofessional army dressed in nice uniforms [/size]


UN lambasts discipline of South Africa’s poorly trained’ troops.

The officer in charge of training soldiers for deployment to the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC) is an exam cheat.

And in another embarrassment for the SA National Defence Force (SANDF), a top UN official sharply criticised the discipline and combat readiness of South African soldiers in Sudan in a recent letter.

Brigadier-General Sithabiso Mahlobo, who was found guilty in 2002 of cheating in exams, is in charge of the training of soldiers who are in the process of being deployed to the war-torn North Kivu province of the DRC.

He is the commander of 46 SA Brigade in Kengray, Joburg.

Mahlobo confirmed to City Press’ sister newspaper, Rapport, that he is responsible for training soldiers who will join the neutral international force (NIF) to fight the notorious M23 rebels in the DRC.

The NIF is a joint operation of the UN and the Southern African Development Community.

Mahlobo was demoted from general to major in 2002 after he was found to have cheated in a military exam by copying from another candidate.

Despite this, he again progressed through the ranks and was promoted to brigadier-general in 2008.

He then took over 46 SA Brigade.

According to military expert Helmoed-Römer Heitman, no officer who has been found guilty of an offence like cheating in examinations should train other soldiers.

In an unrelated development, it has been revealed that a top SANDF commander refused to receive extra training for South African soldiers on duty in Sudan.

In a classified letter, Lieutenant-Colonel T Mashalaba, the commander of an infantry battalion of the SANDF, which was until recently deployed in the troubled Darfur region in Sudan, flatly refused to allow his soldiers to receive training from the UN and the African Union (AU) after one of his soldiers died in an ambush last year.

Mashalaba was in command of the 10 SA Infantry Battalion when Rifleman Vincent van der Walt (23) died in the ambush in October.

Two other South African soldiers were wounded in the attack.

They were stationed at the combined mission of the AU and UN (Unamid) in Darfur.

A UN official in Sudan reliably told City Press that Mashalaba was already on thin ice prior to this incident after ignoring an order to deploy his troops to a refugee camp.

A woman was apparently abducted on August 15 as a result.

Mashalaba allegedly also tried to halt the inquiry into the ambush in October.

“He involved himself personally in the inquiry and tried to halt it despite direct orders to cooperate,” the UN official said.

A letter from a senior Unamid official, in which the quality of South African soldiers’ training was sharply criticised, had been distributed among senior South African army officers just more than a month ago.

The letter, which was apparently also sent to top officials at the UN headquarters in New York, mentions the soldiers’ lack of discipline and their arrogance.

The Zuma link

In 2010 the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) controversially awarded two oil concessions in the east of the country to President Jacob Zuma’s nephew, Khulubuse (pictured left).

The rights were originally awarded to Irish oil company Tullow and South Africa’s Divine Inspiration Group in 2006, but “reassigned” to two Khulubuse Zuma companies, Caprikat and Foxwhelp, which are registered in the British Virgin Islands.

The oil blocks are in Lake Albert in the east of the DRC on the border with Uganda.

In January last year, British oil industry watchdog Platform London reported that Zuma’s companies had begun exploration activities.

In 2010 Mark Willcox, chief executive of Human Settlements Minister Tokyo Sexwale’s Mvelaphanda Holdings, confirmed to the Mail & Guardian that they were giving “strategic advice” to Khulubuse Zuma.

Mvela signed two mining deals in the eastern DRC in 2004 relating to the Kilomoto gold project and the Ruashi copper-and-cobalt project.

Reuters reported that Khulubuse Zuma signed the deal with the DRC government on behalf of Caprikat and that Michael Hulley, President Zuma’s lawyer and legal adviser, signed the Foxwhelp deal.

- Pieter-Louis Myburgh

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/exam-cheat-is-training-army/
.

Soldiers coming out from CAR prepared 6 SAI for deployment,similar to the now deployed 5 SAI. What's funny is that those soldiers performed well in DRC,their mates from Tanzania and Malawi took more than 6 casualties. Let's talk about how ill trained Nigerian soldier are. Almost in every contact with BH your army loses men. Because you infantry isn't well equipped to quickly suppress the enemy fire. What's going on in Nigeria is a civil war.

agaugust: The South African Recces are 99% dead, retired, ran away overseas, or too old to fight. The real ones with combat experience are NOT the SANDF, they are the old time apartheid regime SADF in an era gone by and now history.

Today, 95% of South African army men and equipment have zero combat experience, 99% of South African air force has zero combat experience, while 100% of your expensive navy men and equipment have zero combat experience.

South African military is like a team of footballers who spent all their lives in training under a coach, but NEVER engage in any football competition with a real opponent to test their real capability...get it ?

.

Retired special forces go into the reserves. Similar to generals when their country needs them,you'll see them stepping forward. Just yesterday I was talking to a former 32 battalion soldier who's now a game ranger. Some his friends are still serving in the force. SANDF soldiers is trained by officers with great operational experience. Your analogy is poor mister,cause in the military you're told what to do you don't just "shot" like in the football anytime you want. So having experienced officers to train and led you to battle is............................

agaugust: .

[size=16pt] South African Soldiers are poorly tained...United Nations complains.

SANDF trained by Brigadier-General who cheated to pass military exams

Fancy SANDF photos you see here are deceptions from a rag tag unprofessional army dressed in nice uniforms [/size]


UN lambasts discipline of South Africa’s poorly trained’ troops.

The officer in charge of training soldiers for deployment to the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC) is an exam cheat.

And in another embarrassment for the SA National Defence Force (SANDF), a top UN official sharply criticised the discipline and combat readiness of South African soldiers in Sudan in a recent letter.

Brigadier-General Sithabiso Mahlobo, who was found guilty in 2002 of cheating in exams, is in charge of the training of soldiers who are in the process of being deployed to the war-torn North Kivu province of the DRC.

He is the commander of 46 SA Brigade in Kengray, Joburg.

Mahlobo confirmed to City Press’ sister newspaper, Rapport, that he is responsible for training soldiers who will join the neutral international force (NIF) to fight the notorious M23 rebels in the DRC.

The NIF is a joint operation of the UN and the Southern African Development Community.

Mahlobo was demoted from general to major in 2002 after he was found to have cheated in a military exam by copying from another candidate.

Despite this, he again progressed through the ranks and was promoted to brigadier-general in 2008.

He then took over 46 SA Brigade.

According to military expert Helmoed-Römer Heitman, no officer who has been found guilty of an offence like cheating in examinations should train other soldiers.

In an unrelated development, it has been revealed that a top SANDF commander refused to receive extra training for South African soldiers on duty in Sudan.

In a classified letter, Lieutenant-Colonel T Mashalaba, the commander of an infantry battalion of the SANDF, which was until recently deployed in the troubled Darfur region in Sudan, flatly refused to allow his soldiers to receive training from the UN and the African Union (AU) after one of his soldiers died in an ambush last year.

Mashalaba was in command of the 10 SA Infantry Battalion when Rifleman Vincent van der Walt (23) died in the ambush in October.

Two other South African soldiers were wounded in the attack.

They were stationed at the combined mission of the AU and UN (Unamid) in Darfur.

A UN official in Sudan reliably told City Press that Mashalaba was already on thin ice prior to this incident after ignoring an order to deploy his troops to a refugee camp.

A woman was apparently abducted on August 15 as a result.

Mashalaba allegedly also tried to halt the inquiry into the ambush in October.

“He involved himself personally in the inquiry and tried to halt it despite direct orders to cooperate,” the UN official said.

A letter from a senior Unamid official, in which the quality of South African soldiers’ training was sharply criticised, had been distributed among senior South African army officers just more than a month ago.

The letter, which was apparently also sent to top officials at the UN headquarters in New York, mentions the soldiers’ lack of discipline and their arrogance.

The Zuma link

In 2010 the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) controversially awarded two oil concessions in the east of the country to President Jacob Zuma’s nephew, Khulubuse (pictured left).

The rights were originally awarded to Irish oil company Tullow and South Africa’s Divine Inspiration Group in 2006, but “reassigned” to two Khulubuse Zuma companies, Caprikat and Foxwhelp, which are registered in the British Virgin Islands.

The oil blocks are in Lake Albert in the east of the DRC on the border with Uganda.

In January last year, British oil industry watchdog Platform London reported that Zuma’s companies had begun exploration activities.

In 2010 Mark Willcox, chief executive of Human Settlements Minister Tokyo Sexwale’s Mvelaphanda Holdings, confirmed to the Mail & Guardian that they were giving “strategic advice” to Khulubuse Zuma.

Mvela signed two mining deals in the eastern DRC in 2004 relating to the Kilomoto gold project and the Ruashi copper-and-cobalt project.

Reuters reported that Khulubuse Zuma signed the deal with the DRC government on behalf of Caprikat and that Michael Hulley, President Zuma’s lawyer and legal adviser, signed the Foxwhelp deal.

- Pieter-Louis Myburgh

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/exam-cheat-is-training-army/
.

Soldiers going to the DRC were trained by a Colonel.

NOE is doctrine in the SAAF. Developed from our extensive use of helicopters in the African battle space. Most air forces in Africa are still yet to develop that doctrine. The MI-24/35 lacks the "hot&high" capability which needed when operating in Africa,SAAF stopped using the Super Frelons cause of this. The Rooivalk augubugubu is talking about had a little accident,and hit power lines. All this was during the OT&E(operational test and evaluation) of the helicopters. But aircraft in question was fixed and today is still taking to air. You hit power lines because you're flying around 5m to 7m metres above ground. Nigeria is ill experience when it comes to operating jets and helicopters.

agaugust: [size=14pt]Rooivalk helicopter is an over-rated piece of obsolescent half-french metal junk called helicopter gunship. It barks more than it can bite. About 20 years since project started, no single export customer, every country that has a wise air force runs away from Rooivalk fat-turkey, the helo has no combat history execpt against a handful of rebles who have no radar and no anti-aircraft missile.

DENEL makes a lot of false claims about the Rooivalk, e.g. the Nap Of Earth low level flight capability system is a fraud and failure, the last time South African air force tried low level Rooivalk flight, it crashed into electricity wires in broad daylight, once an attack helicopter fails the low level combat test, it becomes useless.

Rooivalk helicopter remains useless to all air forces in the world, so they buy other helos. Only 11 units of Rooivalk exist since about 20 years of introduction. The body/airframe design already looks out-dated for a $ 40 million flying machine !

Roovalks remains a largely untested helicopter, maybe a bit rebel-worthy, but Mi-35 Hinds fought alongside the Rooivalk in all it's combat operations. So the Rooivalk has NEVER been tested in combat alone. The UN force in Congo was afraid of letting the Rooivalk fly to combat without help from the Mi-35 Hind which were flown by Ukraine and India in Congo DRC theatre.

Does anybody have money to waste? Go buy Rooivalk helicopter...it has no future, it is a dead end.

CASE CLOSED

PHOTO: ROOIVALK HELICOPTER OF SANDF, OUT-DATED BODY DESIGN, OVER-RATED PEFORMANCE[/size]

You don't know what you're talking about. Pathetic. You don't even know where battles where fought in the DRC. But you've nerve to speak out by operations there. Exports don't indicate how effective an weapon system is. The Hinds in the DRC were ineffective during the battle of Kibati,when guided by SA recces to strike supply lines from Rwanda. Your hinds couldn't even find targets. Go find information about SA mortar teams during that battle. Fighting alongside a SA trained battalion led by the late legendary Colonel Ndala whom was SA trained too.

patches689: Guys, could we stop the dick measuring for one second.

I want to hear legit opinions from all members.... why did the Mangusta beat the Rooivalk for the Turkish trails?

yes, the rooivalk is slower

But the rooivalk has a longer operational range

and a bigger payload

and a higher service ceiling

but is less agile (rate of climb)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_helicopter#Performance

The rooivalk carries more ammo for the same caliber pintle-mounted weapon (20mm)

The rooivalk can carry more ATGM's (16 v

The rooivalk comes with the Mokopa which is superior to the AGM-114 "Hellfire" (longer range, better penetration with the same seeker - millimeter band radar)

And dont talk about the combat suite... as the Turkish deal would have financed the Rooivalk lite with the new combat suite and ground search radar

I can only speculate that political influence or obscure doctrinal needs* were the influence

*maybe the turks wanted more of a recon orientated attack helicopter, but then they would have chosen the Tiger as it is the best the west has to offer in terms of a long range recon orientated attack helo

I know augugbgugug will shitpost... but I wanna hear from the rest of the forum (not only south africans)

1 one more: It was many factors that distributed to the Rooivalk not making sales. 1. Defence cuts after the Bush war. 2. Contracts. 3...............etc

patches689: Guys, could we stop the dick measuring for one second.

I want to hear legit opinions from all members.... why did the Mangusta beat the Rooivalk for the Turkish trails?

yes, the rooivalk is slower

But the rooivalk has a longer operational range

and a bigger payload

and a higher service ceiling

but is less agile (rate of climb)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_helicopter#Performance

The rooivalk carries more ammo for the same caliber pintle-mounted weapon (20mm)

The rooivalk can carry more ATGM's (16 v

The rooivalk comes with the Mokopa which is superior to the AGM-114 "Hellfire" (longer range, better penetration with the same seeker - millimeter band radar)

And dont talk about the combat suite... as the Turkish deal would have financed the Rooivalk lite with the new combat suite and ground search radar

I can only speculate that political influence or obscure doctrinal needs* were the influence

*maybe the turks wanted more of a recon orientated attack helicopter, but then they would have chosen the Tiger as it is the best the west has to offer in terms of a long range recon orientated attack helo

I know augugbgugug will shitpost... but I wanna hear from the rest of the forum (not only south africans)

It isn't really known why. But speaking to some okes knowledgeable about the process,some claim Denel had to negotiate like right now new contracts with foreign suppliers. Also again the Rooivalk wasn't operational. The late 90s Asian financial crisis also dealt a major blow to the project,which forced Malaysia to abandoned plans to get the Rooivalk. During that time plans were already in motion for the development of a radar similar to the Apache's long bow. Operational use raises interest and possibly sales. Look at Israel weapon sales in 2009 and 2012.

agaugust: His definition of Hollywood army actually fits the South African military. His thinking faculty was shattered by those photos of real war zone Nigerian military in action so wrote a paragraph full of nonsense. This current battlefield experience is a treasure South Africans with they had, they hunger and thirst for it daily

PHOTO : REAL SOLDIERS IN REAL WAR ZONE OF REAL LIVE COMBAT....NAIJA NINJAS, MASTERS OF BATTLEFIELD EXPERIENCE IN AFRICA.

ill trained. Your military is currently massively recruiting but your defence budget remains the same. A Nigeria soldier=A South African elite game ranger. You know things are bad when senior commanders in the ranks of Lieutenant Colonels or full Colonels start getting killed in the fronts.

Thiza: WHEN YOU HAVE BEEN LIED TOO A THOUSAND TIMES ABOUT YOUR CAPABILITIES YOU TURN TO BELIEVE UNTIL YOU ARE PROVEN WRONG

Air power.

DEATHMACHINE: Hmm seems NAF are gradually replacing their AK's with Tarvor's .#my observation#

But why not have a standard rifle for the entire Nigerian armed forces. Acquiring NATO standard and Russian weapons at the same is kinda crazy. And won't be easy on the logistics.

NaijaPikinGidi: Is that your best shot to this embarrassment called SANDF? Your generals are begging you to resign and you are here talking about invisible trillions. Remember your generals have been ordered arrested by judgement obtained by your obnoxious soldiers union ... SANDU. Resign or spend 12 months on external deployment.

How long was the Nigerian 7 army division deployed again?

iterator25: even Sudanese defense forces undertake training and battle exercise..

Their generals die in the frontlines. Your colonels die in the frontlines. A sign that regular junior soldiers are getting killed like flies.

conm: Soldiers are better judged in the field of action not on the talking fora.

. From the Anglo-Zulu wars,Anglo-Boer wars,world war 1,world war 2,Korea,Bush war[all over Southern Africa(Angola,Tanzania,Zambia,Mozambique,Lesotho,Swaziland,Namibia etc],Sierra Leone, Lesotho,CAR to now in the DRC. South African warriors have proved to be a difficult foe to deal with in battlefield.