₦airaland Forum

Zeus_Ayo: Shit!! Dis thread just gat thrown back through time. Imagine d irony

Important pages and threads are gone. Damn.

rka1: It is you and the misguided person who liked you I feel sorry for. The Grifo-7 is an Italian radar, not French.

http://babriet.tripod.com/airforce/stat/statgrifo.htm

It is you who doesn't understand the capabilities of the PL-9 hence your ignorance, Mr Hollywood.

And by the way, I didn't say the A-Darter is a radar guided missile (not that I care), but that your Gripen would have to get a lot closer in order to engage the F-7 which also has an infrared missile, olodo.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PL-9

Please read the links this time and stop fantasising.

The Iris-T and A-Darter missiles are capable of shooting down surface to air and air to air missiles. The PL-9C is not a capable missile compared to the A-Darter,that's your Chinese masters where backing Denel for it. They might have even stolen tech from SA. Like they're doing with the USA.........Regarding your radar lies here's link which,proves how obsolete your jets are. itweb.co.za/mobilesite/defenceweb/home/item_id-32804/

chris365: ode. you never get the message do you..

how can you argue with someone with just cut and paste information without your own analysis of the matter? especially when your cut and paste posts hardly correspond with the argument? huh?

you sound like an illiterate everyday. when you talk, talk with facts and sources. simple as ABC

all you've been saying here are just wishful thoughts since you have nothing to back them up, have continuously contradicted yourself, and have been discovered a liar.

I've been telling what's happening in African battlefields. Now look at this source since you want source,this proves by 2011 SAAF already had more 6 pilots unlike what your Nigerian brothers have been saying www.saabgroup.com/en/Air/Gripen-Fighter-System/Gripen-for-South-Africa/Update-from-the-programme/South-African-Air-Force-Air-Capability-Demo/

drag_on: each time Nigerians respond they endeavor to give links to prove their point,but those representing s.africa here engage in empty boasts.That's why you don't get challenged.You sound uneducated when you do that. Back up your claims by links or be quiet.That's why andrewza is the best of the bunch.

Your Nigerian brothers said "Mr cut and paste" "Mr link",when we did that. Now we will tell you something and it is for you to found out and come tell us if we were wrong.

scipher: I still haven't seen what Nigeria can't manufacture from your list, rather, what makes you 20years ahead

How long would it take Nigeria to "manufacture" a 5th generation air to air missile? How long would it take Nigeria to "manufacture" a surface to air missile? With Nigeria's defence budget it would take you guys 20-30 years to have those missiles.............Judge this by how long your scientists have been testing those Epe rockets.

rka1: You are the comedian, the F7s radar has longer tracking capabilities than you stated;

Heavily modernized aircraft with some basic 4th generation technology.
Armament includes advanced 42 km range Italian Grifo-7 radar with ECM, sophisticated 22 km range PL-9C air to air missiles, bombs, and air to ground rockets.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigerian_Air_Force

Your Gripen still has to get close and personal in order to be effective and no use saying that a BVR missile will be operational this year and it can't be included until it is active. Nigeria is expecting a lot of arms this year and we aren't using them in current scenarios.

As for your other posts, usual Hollywood fantasy stuff.

This makes me sad. You even don't know that the Grifo-7 is a French radar not Italian. That's why you don't know its range. The A-Darter is not a radar BVR missile,it is 5th generation infrared missile. Able to make 100g turns,it can strike warplanes and AAM behind the host craft...A project to acquire munitions for the Gripens has been ongoing for some time,it was hampered by the A-darter development. Now that the A-darter is getting into service this year. A new BVR missile will be acquired likely the meteor missile,while development of the Marlin missile will going. Just wait until we purchase heavy lift and air refuel planes Naija will be withing SAAF's striking range.

scipher: out of curiosity, what have you produced that Nigeria can't produce that puts you 20years ahead ?

That put South Africa 20 years ahead of Nigeria?..... Here's the list 1. Umkhonto surface to air missile(First infrared missile in the world to lauch vertically) 2. Mokopa anti-tank missile,with a range of 10km. 3. G6 howitzer 3. G7 howitzer 4. A-darter missile 5. Ingwe missile 6. Seeker drone 7. Vulture UAV this doesn't need a air strip to operate. 8. Rooikat armoured fighting vehicle 9. RG-31 10. Marauder 11. Hornet 12. EW or ELINT kits for warplanes 13. ARHLAC (without the Rooivalk programme its design wouldn't have been possible). 14. Rooivalk 15. NTW-20 sniper rifle 16. V-LAP howitzer rounds 17. RG-41 18. Nyala 19. Cassipir-2000......The list is endless.

sirjerry: For your mind.

Tell which part of my post is wrong please

sirjerry: For your mind.

Tell which part of my post is wrong please!!!!

Fighter Pilot: Nigerian made armoured vehicles are not MRAPS.

They're claiming their vehicles are low cost light products. Meant for developing and poor countries South Africa has such vehicles DCD has the Mountain lion and Springbok A2 which are better than any Nigerian light "MRAPS".

Gerald Austine: [quote author=rka1


you go from calling their product unreliable to very cheap yet they are the third super power after America and russia or are you just jealous of the fact that they are tranferring their technology to nigeria

Technology that is developed in western countries. South Africa helped China develop their Z-10 AT helo. We don't need technology transfer!!! We research and further develop. Soon South Africa will be one of the nations among countries like the USA and Israel to fire a missile from a UAV.

Fighter Pilot: Chinese products are affectionately called Fong Kong in SA and we know well that they are being patronised by the likes of you. My friend Chinese have a tendency of taking Africans for granted and when they see us they perceive us as block heads who cannot think of anything that involves technology but war.

Please tell them my brother!! Hoo boy.

chris365: are you still talking about military hardware? cos what yo just talked about is total nonsense.

once again you continue to show how deeply flawed south africans' mentality of everything non western is. it would be right for you to find out why things are before talking about them. you are ignorant and a shame.

the only reason the west (especially European countries) will never buy weapons from china is because EU still has embargo on chinese arms. NATO countries followed suit. i guess you were ignorant of this fact.

so in your own reasoning, ASIAN and Middle East countries that buy chinese weapons are poor?

Turkey that just chose a chinese missile defence systems over America and European ones are poor (considering they are also a NATO member but shunned their member states)? you need some serious enlightenment.

Chinese developed jf-17 thunder that is far cheaper, is the same level (if not better) than your Swedish overpriced grippen jets. FACT

The Gripen is away advanced than the JF-17. The Gripen is even way faster than the JF-17,the Gripen carries the most advanced missiles,reccon pods and bombs in the world...................Majority of the Chinese weapons that are operated outside that country,are operated by poor countries like Namibia&Tanzania.

agaugust: Since you say their products are not reliable, you can go challenge them and 'win'...just show your confidence in your own 'better' weapons.

The USA can defeat China. South Africa's economy won't allow it to fight a powerful and numerical superior foe. Germany had the best weapons in WW2 in the east but Russia could put a new soldier in the position of dead instantly plus many tanks. Without supplies from your defence industry no country will ever win a war against a another which has a bigger defence industry and high number of troops. That's why South Africa can defeat Nigeria any day.

Fighter Pilot: What does producing unreliable products have to do with war?

Have you ever had the time to watch that "Mao's cold war",on Discovery channel?...........The Abrams and Challenger MBTs destroyed many iraqi T-72 tanks with less than ten of this MBTs destroyed. You can't have vehicles that keep breaking down in the battlefield,you'll be destroyed!!!!!

chris365: yet is one of the biggest arms exporters in the world. keep fooling yourself.

Exports doesn't show how advanced a system is. China exports low cost systems that are mostly reverse engineered Russian or western systems. How many countries operate this systems which are the best in their class: B-2 spirit bomber,F-22 stealth fighter jet,Abrams tank,Merkava tank,Gotland class submarine,PzH-2000 self propelled howitzer,G6 self propelled howitzer,Apache AT helicopter,Virginia class submarine,Tormahawk cruise missile,smerch Multiple rocket launcher,S400 or 300 SAMs,Challenger MBT,Mokopa missile,Rafele and Typhoon fighter? HUUUUUh You tell me.

agaugust: we nigerians have posted till we got tired with sources and photos on our ATR-42 Surveyor ELINT, ESM, ECM, EW, and ECCM.

i wont repeat it because it is well know on this forum that anythime we mention our NAF ATR-42 mighty Surveyor aircraft, all south africans on nairaland begin to tremble as if a supreme court judge is about to sentence them to death by hanging....

so write/sign your final will and kiss your wife goodbye before you watch this video, because you may need to hang yourself from the ceiling fan.


ELINT upgrade video, see the new 'hump' at the back of the aircraft.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7WPwzooIDY
.

Tired or not. The ATR-42 is maritime patrol craft. That humps like in many planes of its class can be or are for advance radar that is used for search and rescue missions. You want me to post another link or source that Nigeria operates the ATR-42M?............Ceiling fan for what? Only in Nigeria where a person installs fan plus a AC. South African Oryx helicopter are the most advanced EW,ELINT or signal interruption/jammers systems in whole of sub-saharan Africa.

agaugust: All those NATO countries you mentioned have NEVER produced one single stealth jet fighter in all their lives as European and world super powers.

China that you are insulting has produced a stealth jet fighter and nuclear powered submarines.

China is the 3rd military super power in the world after only America and Russia.

the white nations of Europe and America can go eat their technology, Nigeria has found a new way to greatness....

Nigeria is now China's partner as we get latest military technology now. Watch out South Africa, China will make Nigeria to overtake you in defence industry and weapons development/manufacturing likely in the next 5 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chengdu_J-20



.

Comedian again. China doesn't have any stealth fighter,they're all prototypes. Should I say now that Iran has shown images of a stealth fighter now it produces better weapons than western nations? China relies on stolen and reverse engineering tech from the west. Its weapons are not the same quality as those of their western counterparts.......... South Africa is 20 years ahead of Nigeria in terms of military research or technology just like USA is with China...China to cover up on this is stealing technology from black hawk,Apache and other stealth technology!!!! The west is 20 years ahead of China!!!!

agaugust: .


[size=16pt]How Upgraded F-7, MiG-21 Jet Fighters Vs F-16, F-18, MiG-29, Gripen Jets....

....Are Rated In Worldwide Military Opinion Forums
[/size]




Pakistani F-7 jets are the counterpart of Indian MiG 21 Bison and Romanian MiG 21 Lancers, these 3 jets are upgraded to fight and survive against F-16 jets, F-18, MiG 29, Gripen and other 4th generation light jet fighters in that class.


Romania retired all MiG 29 jets and replaced them with moderninzed MiG 21 Jets for its NATO air power operations...that tells you something.

F-7 NI jet is still superior to MiG 21 Lancer and Bison because of the new F-7 jet swept wing and bubble canopy for extra capacity in dog fight maneuvers, ground attack maneuvers and enemy aircraft spotting in visual range combat. The only area the MiG 21 Lancer and Bison have an edge is beyond visual range radar and missiles.

Now let us read what other military forums around the world are saying, some of the commentators are real jet fighter pilots in the best air forces of the world today....surprises for you if you read :


"The MiG-21 LanceR is still a MiG-21, the airframe is the same, while the engine suffered minor modifications. However, just as long the radar and weapons systems installed onboard will be competitive, just as long the helmet mounted display and firing system will continue to represent the edge of technology, and just as long the Romanian fighter pilots will continue to win international exercises, the MiG-21 Lancer will remain a formidable opponent, often under-evaluated by foreign analysts.

Some will argue that they have the best planes in the world and no MiG-21, no matter what it carries onboard, will ever be able to face an F-15, F-18 or F-16 in combat. Well, all those pilots who have flown the Lancer, may they be French, American, Dutch, Belgian or British have been extremely impressed of its performances and the American fighter pilots have stated that the Lancer has real chances to win a dogfight with any of their fighters.

http://www.lockonfiles.com/topic/35934-mig-21-lancer/



A No.20 Sqn 'Cheetahs' F-7PG aircraft doing effective low-level attack as in the weblink below. This air superiority squadron is tasked with day/night air superiority and day ground attack /Close-Air-Support (CAS) to ground forces. No.20 Sqn has been a vital fighting element of PAF since more than past 55 years. Over the years this unit has performed in Tactial Reconnaissance, Tactial day/night attack and air-superiority roles.

http://www.pafwallpapers.com/gallery_F-7.htm



F-7 jets droping counter measure flares to defend itself against enemy missiles in combat

http://www.pafwallpapers.com/gallery_F-7/F-7s_horizon_flares.jpg



The pilot also says the IAF’s MiG-21 Bison aircraft, modified with Israeli radar, active radar missiles and electronic jammers, are nearly “invisible” to the F-15 and F-16’s current mechanically-scanned arrays, allowing the Indian pilots to sneak past the USAF radar screen and engage the F-15s and F-16s in dogfights.

“The MiG-21 had the ability to get in the scissors with you at 110kts at 60 degrees nose high and go from 10,000 to 20,000

feet,” he said.

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/defence-strategic-issues/22338-indian-mig-21-bison-v-s-paf-jf-17-has-edge-2.html



Draft copy of the exercise Cope India report says:

While the superb performances of IAF Sukhoi-30s were somewhat anticipated, the performance of MiG-21Bison came as a major

“unpleasant surprise” to the USAF officials. It also validates the claim of the Russian officials that they are capable of successfully converting “second generation” late-model MiG-21bis fighters to “fourth generation combat platforms”. Inherently the significant positive attributes enjoyed by MiG-21s were their dog fighting ability in WVR (Within Visual Range) combat. Even the earlier models had a low corner velocity of 556 kilometers per hour and at Mach 0.5 had an instantaneous turn rate of 11.1 degrees per second. The MiG-21Bison with more powerful R-25 engines not only considerably bettered this performance but it may also be credited with “jackrabbit” acceleration, a very critical attribute in WVR combat.

A well flown Mig 21 is worth half a dozen badly flown F22's or F35's .


http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?121375-MiG-21-still-unpleasant-surprise-at-Cope-India-exercise-how-so

http://www.amazon.com/Fighter-Perfor...6439329&sr=1-1



Among many fourth generations attributes added to the IAF MiG-21Bison design, the incorporation of HMS (Helmet Mounted Sight) and high-off-boresight R-73RDM2 NBVR/WVR (Near Beyond Visual Range/Within Visual Range) AAMs (Air-to-Air Missiles) have turned it into a “Great Equalizer” in the WVR combat scenario. Conceptually a small number of MiG-21Bisons maintaining “radar silence” can be guided towards their aerial target by a couple of Sukhoi-30s by secure data links in accordance with MFFC (Mixed Fighter Force Concept).


Upon entering into an WVR combat envelope the MiG-21 Bisons armed with HMS and deadly NBVR/WVR missiles had the capability of destroying even 5th generation jet fighters like F-22 Raptor as assessed by high-profile Jet Fighter Pilot and Analyst Ben Lambeth of RAND Corporation. According to Lambeth “in visual combat everybody dies at the same rate.”


F/A-22 also has to slow down if forced into a WVR combat scenario and loses the advantage of its super-cruise attributes.The situation further complicates if the IAF Sukhoi-30s have acquired the capability of providing target illumination for RVV-AE (AA-12 Adder) BVR missiles being launched from IAF MiG-21Bisons at extended ranges.

http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2428939



MiG 21 Lancers have also participated successfully in various NATO exercises. The modernized aircraft demonstrated exceptional readiness levels, relative to their former status, as well as to comparable NATO air forces. In such exercises, the Romanian pilots could participate in the most sophisticated modes of operations, such as laser designation of targets, and precision attacks -capabilities that are yet to be acquired by NATO newcomers.


The MiG 21 Lancer fleet now constitutes the backbone of the Romanian Air Force, performing air defense, close air support and training roles. The aircraft can carry both Eastern and western armament, and perform extremely accurate attacks with both “iron bombs” and precision guided weapons. Lancer is cleared for missiles such as the R60, R73 and Python 3 missiles, 250 and 500 lb bombs, laser guided munitions, targeting, ECM and Reconnaissance pods etc. The Lancer has demonstrated a circular error point (CEP) accuracy of 7 mil/radian and below, while maintaining 1-2meter CEP with laser guided weapons. The aircraft is also cleared for asymmetric loading of weapons, which provides a more flexible and economical use of weapons. Among the 110 aircraft, 85 are configured for ground attack, equipped with a ranging radar, while 25 are air defense variants, using the Elta EL/M-2032 air combat radar.

http://defense-update.com/news/lancer.htm "



F-7 NI Jets and its counterparts MiG 21 Lancer and Bison, will match any MiG 29, F-16, F-18 or Gripen jet in within visual range battle of less than 37km range distance.

All south african Gripen jets have ONLY within visual range missiles whether the current IRIS-T or the planned/still awaited A-DARTER missiles. FACT !!!

for all people, nigerians, south africans and others who have underestimated nigerian F-7 NI jets, i have allowed other people arround the world to talk and help you correct your wrong views that F-7NI jet is crap in air combat and weak in ground attack.

There is a difference between a country buying a jet fighter for the job needed to be done at that time, and just buying a jet fighter to show off and display national pride.

Dare a tiny Scorpion and it will sting you with a dose of poison from its little tail....instant death is guaranteed. Thank you sirs .


JET PHOTOS IN ORDER :

1. MiG 21 Lancer
2. MiG 21 Bison
3. F-7
4. Gripen

.

Dude you're a comedian. Those other jet have canards to enable them to make tight turns. Besides your Nigerian F-7 have a radar that covers around 15km-20km. Now here's a little scenario that would play out if the F-7 was to meet the advanced: The Gripen detects a enemy craft at round 115km. The pilot will weigh his options whether to engage or not and other stuff like does the plane still have enough fuel for the dogfight. Then if decides to engage: At high speed enemy craft on radar screen he blasts into the F-7's 15km-20km radar covered area. The F-7 will detect an incoming enemy plane,from there the pilot will drop his tanks(Thee F-7 carries three fuel tanks in superiority roles+2 missiles) and try get a lock on the enemy. By the time he does this the Gripen will be within visual range and firing its first missile causing your pilot to take his plane into evasive manoeuvres against a 5th generation missile coupled with the Cobra HMD with no luck the F-7 will be shot down!...This scenario will play on and on........Regarding the A-Darter it is scheduled to enter service this year. I'm sure training missiles are now delivered we are just awaiting SAAF to publicly reveal it maybe in the April-May air force demonstration. TOTAL AIR SUPERIORITY OVER NIGERIA.

chris365: At this time sir. I will start addressing you as an ignorant buffoon.

Nigerian military has no SA military vehicle in it's arsenal. We buy top range not low range.

Springbok only plans to open a plant in Nigeria. And so far it has only been a pipe dream.

I know your type and yours is just worst. Fake soldier

South Africa produces top of RANGE armoured or MRAP vehicles. Nigeria's troop carriers or MRAPs don't come any close to South African vehicles like the Nyala,RG-31 and Marauder.

scipher: last time I checked springbok is an animal name in Afrikaans

So?

Augustine Again: am coming back for your head big time, its time for me to post other peoples debate and comments on other international military threads/forums like nairaland and see how an F-7 jet will demolish F-16 jet or a careless F-22 stealth raptor.

just let me finish attending the special program in the church today make i no become pagan..Lol, i will come back for that your coconut head tonight before i go to sleep. you dis papa ajasco !!!

.

The F-7 will shot down a F-22? What a foo.l!!! Go ask Iranian pilots what happened when they tried to intercept a USA drone on a reccon mission in the gulf. Your F-7 won't even detect the F-22 5km away!!!!!!!!!!!! The a single Gripen can shot down the entire Nigerian F-7 fleet one by one.

rka1: WHITE ELEPHANTS .

South African stadiums are used from Rugby,soccer and other events. The next week will see the ANC party hold an event in (Nelspruit) Mbobela's famous "Giraffe" stadium.

rka1: Man (boy) are you deluded or what? If China produces inferior weapons, why is the WEST afraid of China (including the US)?

If you are big brother to us, why is our economy now bigger than yours? By the way, Nigerians also invest in SA as do other countries.

USA has shown China on many occasions who's the man. Last year they(USAF) flown the B-52 bombers in China's new defence zone near the disputed islands with Japan. They're only "afraid" cause a war between the two would result in a nuclear exchange. Both the USA and China are still in some at war. You confuse influence and military the west is afraid of China's growing influence not its military.

scipher: we've shown interest in many hardwares even Brazilian made . buh, do we have any SA made hardware currently? nah ..they're useless ....I do, however, want us to buy the Brazilian tucano light trainer jets.. would be great for the North East operations but we only showed interest

The ARHLAC prototype will soon be making its first flight,the first African designed soon to be produced craft. Useless? Go ask the USA military how South African MRAPS helped reduce casualty numbers from IEDs.

chris365: Please name one SA vehicle that Nigerian military uses. Just one. You this fantasist.

RG-31. Fantasist with facts!!!!! Shut up Nigerian.

agaugust: fool, the world from equator down to southern hemisphere contains only about 20 of about 150 countries of the world ! and nigeria is not among those below equator countries, means your dominance excludes nigeria, egypt, algeria, libya, morroco, ethiopia, ghana, and all arabia/middle east, all europe, north and central america, and 99% of asia.....almost the whole world

you thought you were praising your self....fool !!

.

South Africa has a bigger defence industry than any African country. Nigeria,Morocco,Ethiopia,Ghana and Egypt included. Nigerian police have even shown interest in the Springbok A2 vehicle from DCD. Our army has no Nigerian vehicle in its vehicle fleet but Nigeria has a few South African made vehicles. THE BEST,BADDEST AND BIGGEST IN AFRICA.

rka1: You mean with all the under utilised white elephant stadia you have after the world cup?

What stadiums are used for concerts,rugby and other sport matches in South Africa?!?.... LIES AGAIN!!!!!

rka1: So what is your problem then? You first said we are not industralised, now you are quarelling over SA investment in Nigeria. Are you worried you will be overtaken? Oh! sorry, you already have been by Nigerias economy.

No problem there. It shows how the BIG BROTHER(South Africa) is helping the smaller brother(Nigeria) to get up. Economy? Pssfffffff. China is the second biggest economy in the world but we know they still rely on Europe for weapons. We again know Russia can defeat them without usage of nuclear weapons. 1. Britain produces better weapons than China 2. France produces better weapons than China. 3. German produces better weapons than China 4. Spain produces better weapons than China 5. Italy produces better weapons than China. 6. Israel produces better weapons than China. 7. South Africa produces better weapons than China 8. Sweden produces better weapons than China 8. Finland produces better weapons than China..............The list is endless......Your copy masters can be defeated by the USA too.

rka1: As I thought, relying on the net.

Yes,cause your weapons have never been tested in real combat. South African made or upgraded weapons performed or are still performing well in Iraq,Afghanistan,Angola,DRC,Algeria. ALL OVER THE WORLD........Sources in the great lakes region are reporting Ugandan armed forces are moving tanks and other heavy equipment by tank transporters to the South Sudanese boarder. THINGS ARE GETTING WARMED UP!!!!!

NaijaPikinGidi: Not so fast my boy!

Airforce:
26 Gripens with 6 competent pilots? That's an Airforce with no force! It's a dead one, against a highly mobile and battle hardened Nigerian Airforce with surplus pilots capable of flying our range of airframes! Nigeria holds the edge!

Navy:
No need. Agaugust has given a fairly good insight! Submarines will be useless against a Nigeria Nigerian Navy. Four frigates, three submarines? you only think NNS Aradu? What can your slow crafts do against an existing array of Nigerian Navy ships http://www.navy.mil.ng/Ships , fast moving Shaldag and Manta boats, and our due to arrive stealth ships that you failed to highlight? I am unable to speak beyond this . However, this thread holds info that paints a tantalizing picture of the capacity of our Nigerian Navy to sink whatever floats in the name of your SA Navy.

Army:
This is a no brainier! Come stand in the way and we'll show you exactly how our "eastern weapons" kill and destroy enemy forces with lethal marksmanship! Our war records and battle wins speak volumes. Your SANDF will get a resounding beating from a better and regularly tested NA. The rest of your talk is as usual child talk.

I expected something more empirical and not this crap you dumped on yourself.

Lies and insults again. Your navy can't and will never defeat SAN,your fast vessels moving can be easily destroyed by the main gun fitted on the frigates. Regarding air forces a single Gripen can shot down all your F-7 jets one by one which are blind. The Gripen has a better radar and EW gear.......................Your demonstrated his stupidity and proven that without the help of fighter jets your navy will run and hide its vessels....................Army: what marksman ship are you talking about? The SANDF has demonstrated it has sharp shooters in the DRC. When they dislodged the M23 close to their base in Munigi. Besides your mechanised columns will be reduced to burning steel while the smell of human waste fill the skies by air strikes. Investigate how accurate where mortars in the DRC and how deadly accurate where the G5 and G6 guns in Angola. Show us where artillery and mortars where accurate and deadly at long ranges. NO AIR FORCE NO VICTORY.

rka1: And how do you know this? Were you present when weapons were being tested?

Information about weapon systems is available on the net. Just google all the Nigerian made weapons and compare them with others from their class.

chris365: You dont know these south Africans. They can lie and lie more when they are discovered.

Since it seems like this debate will be filled with lies and insults without facts. I think it is about time we introduce a "scale" which we're gonna use to weigh this two countries(Nigeria and South Africa). Now here are the facts: For a country to win or be effective in a war all the arms of its armed forces have to be up to date or modernised navy,air force and army.............First air force: A. Nigeria has 12 F-7 jets for superiority+plus other trainers for ground bombings. B. South Africa has 26 Gripen fighter jets+other trainers for ground bombings..........In terms of air superiority South Africa holds the edge...............Second Navy: A. Nigeria for sea combat role relies on a single old frigate armed with SAM and ASM. Proof of Torpedoes has been seen,though it can be armed. B. South Africa for sea combat has Four valour class stealth frigates which are armed with SAM and ASM. They have torpedo tubes but are not armed with those.+ 3 heroine class diesel submarines this are armed with torpedoes if needed the SSM can be installed. One at sea,one at dock for training crews and one undergoing maintains or repair this is done not to lose total submarine capability..........South Africa holds the Edge again in the sea................ Third army A. The Nigerian army is armed with weapons from eastern nations mostly like the T-72,BTR-3U,T-55,D-30 and 81 mortars...Troops number in their hundreds of thousands. Without Trucks,MRAPS or similar vehicles this army is not that mobile. Training standards are up fro debate. Again wounded troops are sent abroad for treatment. B. The South African army is mixture of forces with great experience SADF,MK,Transkei DF,Ceikai DF,Venda DF,Bophutatswana and Inkhata self defence forces plus other forces which I didn't mention. This Brings knowledge from both sides of the bush war from guerrilla to conventional warfare. Armed with mostly South African made weapons mostly almost reaching their mandatory retirement age like the Ratels and Olifant MBTs.....Small number of troops around 60 000. Training was adapted from the SADF........... Result: debatable......................No troops will advance without aerial support. What we've learned in the past decades is that he who owns the skies will win............... Overall results: without any outside help or interference South Africa defeat Nigeria. But both countries are far away from each other and both can't sustain a division size battles that far away from home. Unless they meet at some countries where both countries back their side. Like right now in South Sudan: example, South Africa backs the white army and Nigeria backs the juba government.