₦airaland Forum

agaugust: we hear its a rumour, but angola has reputation for buying crazy weapons like ballistic Scud missiles.

i suspect the angola government may be doing its usual stuff...buy weapons they dont need, inflates the price, steal oil money in the deal.

typical african people.

The rumour started when Angolan navy officers were spotted at the port where the vessel is. Someone got excited and started spreading rumours.

agaugust: now this is real comedy.

the Seleka that was said to have 'raised white flag in surrender' is the one ruling and controlling the land in C.A.R, while the South African army that claims to have won the battle is the one sleeping in Soweto township with their wives under a blanket at home !

LOL !!!

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Let's us describe what they where fighting: Protecting their base,assets and weapons. Did they succeed?........CAR army was protecting Bangui but some of their soldiers changed sides. Soweto is better than most Nigerian suburbs,don't even try make it seem like a bad township way bad than its Nigerian counterpart.

NaijaPikinGidi: I made the comment below, and you end up proving me right:





"running is not an option,our soldiers are on the ground" ... Yet the same SANDF soldiers usenbolted from their base, abandoning weapons and military vehicles like antelopes running from a hungry lion. Zuma was pressured to withdraw troops ... is now your version for today, which is different from AndrewZA's version, FighterPilot's, MsauZA's previous versions.

The sooner you guys begin to talk straight we will continue to see and hear stupidity from you all.

Get your facts straight. The SANDF soldiers left the base after the battle not during the battle which would've meant running. The SANDF was positioning to strike moving equipment and company or more parabats to allow the CIC to have flexible options on whether to strike or withdraw but after pressure from shocked South Africans who didn't even know we had a training unit there plus ECCAS meeting,Zuma decided to withdraw sending more troops would've been interpreted as undermining the countries around CAR and ECCAS. Helmets and armed Gecko are not weapons. Nigeria left equipment too in Mali.

Henry120: This is why the widespread use of pick-up trucks by all armies in africa, south-east asia and south-america is risky business.

RIP to the commander and his fallen comrades.

Although pick-ups provide speed, manoeuvrability and ease of use, they provide no protection whatsoever. Infact troops sitting in them are mere ducks for target practice.

That is why in my opinion, without sentiments, the nigerian made "leopard ACB", combat support vehicle should be the vehicle of choice for all african armies.

beegeagle./2013/07/17/proforce-pf2-leopard-armoured-combat-vehicle-crafted-with-pride-in-the-federal-republic-of-nigeria-world-exclusive-photos/


Unlike the south-african GILA or casspir, the leopard ACB provides the speed, versatility and manoeuvrability of the pick-ups and enough protection against GPMG's and HE grenades at a cost-effective rate.


It is a vehicle in the class of the panhad VBL series, otokar cobra and should naturally replace the pick-up trucks in service of most african armies, whether in nigeria- south-africa - DRC or south-sudan. It is something african militaries should take advantage of. That video is heart-wrenching.



http://beegeagle./2013/07/17/proforce-pf2-leopard-armoured-combat-vehicle-crafted-with-pride-in-the-federal-republic-of-nigeria-world-exclusive-photos/

Not criticising your Nigerian vehicle. But Leopard ACD wouldn't have survived this ambush,cause Mamadou's car was specifically targeted in the convoy. Hit by a rocket first then followed by automatic gun fire,the enemy clearly had intel about the colonel who didn't have a military escort in that notorious road during the attack. Other cars in the convoy took the injured to hospital by the time this video was shoot. His bodyguard survived though...............MRAPS armed is the answer.

agaugust: No you wont be watching nigerian army artillery firing, south african army would be running back home like you did under fire from seleka

Read the story of a real brave soldier. And learn about the brave commanders who participated in M23's defeat,and stop calling the Tanzanians the ones responsible for M23 defeat. http://philmoore.info/blog/2014/1/death-of-a-hero

NaijaPikinGidi: At this rate, you are already useless in 2014. As you were!

RIP Colonel Mamadou Ndala. Here's the video from the ambush site where the DRC hero which led FARDC troops along our boys and our Tanzaniana allies died.......Soldiers crying for their commander. GRAPHIC!!!! Don't watch if you're not used to watching frontline videos and horrors of war.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSmbYmYjvbQ&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DWSmbYmYjvbQ

NaijaPikinGidi: You mean a decision was taken by the so called ECCAS that SANDF must run away hard and fast in the battle with SELEKA? No wonder your President Zuma was building himself a bunker at Nkandla so he would be the last South African alive -- the very day SELEKA begins to hunt for the CIC of the SANDF. You all ran abandoning mission and equipment ... It's on record.

This is a joke. The SANDF chief clearly said it that "running is not an option,our soldiers are on the ground". SANDF was already building up a force around CAR from Rooivalk attack helicopters,Gripen fighter jets,parabats plus a mobile clinic in Uganda. Zuma was pressured by South Africans to withdraw our troops.

agaugust: No you wont be watching nigerian army artillery firing, south african army would be running back home like you did under fire from seleka

How about we speak facts on how during the battle did South African soldiers fight. The South African soldiers in CAR fought well 9 hours without giving up and surrendering. Nigerian artillery compared to South Africa's is a joke,the only guns which would be considered a threat is the FH-77.But this would be easily destroyed by the G6 which Nigeria doesn't a answer to.

agaugust: Nigeria is more than what you know. Nigerdock Shipbuilding Yard in Lagos is also fully equipped to repair Artillery guns, you didnt know that, I posted that here months ago.

Before there is need to replace an artillery gun barrel, a few thousands of shells would have been fired over a period time from one single barrel.

By the time Nigeria needs to replace or repair barrels of our 660 artillery guns at Nigerdock, South African army would have been deleted with about 1 million shells fired on your tiny 50,000 man army of glorified ANC bushmen hunters

.

Nigeria has old soviet era howitzer like the D-30 to count make up that 660 numbers,with a small number of modern 155mm howitzers and 120mm mortars(which is considered artillery by many). South Africa has a lot of howitzers in reserve like the Israeli G4 howitzer. The South African army had to replace many the barrels of the G5 after the cuito battle. Any 155mm howitzer that fires shells at a sustained rate in its maximum range will have barrels problems within 2 to 6 months.

agaugust: Ethiopia has a much smaller and less advanced defence industry compared to Nigeria, yet Ethiopia is ranked above South Africa in military power

Did you see the new made in Nigeria Gulma drone ? It is world class for its category/type.

.

That ranking is not based on fighting capabilities and what might happen if war broke out between countries on the list. It is based on troop numbers and equipment. Here are the few factors we should consider when ranking how strong a country is: 1.Technology 2. Politics 3. Defence industry 4. Economy 5. History(experience)....... Yes,I saw images of it weeks ago. But you can't say it is "world class" since we don't know it capabilities yet things like payload and sensors it carries.

agaugust: .

Angola to buy aircraft carrier ?

https://medium.com/war-is-boring/86c03ec9b21a

the aircraft carrier Principe de Asturias
https://www.elblogoferoz.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Foto1.jpg

.

Spoke with many military analysts and spotters. They're all saying it is a Spanish rumour,cause Angola needs patrol vessels than a aircraft carrier. Like one man said "without vessels to protect it a South African submarine can sink it easily,without any difficulties".

agaugust: If the South Africans accept that the strongest military in Africa is.... Egypt first, Nigeria second..we can then close this thread

.

Nigeria is not strong.1. If a military can't treat its wounded soldiers and relies on outside for that we call it weak. Cause soldiers with small wounds from shrapnel would die in a full blown war. 2. Without a strong defence industry to back it,even getting or fixing a 155mm barrel would be tough. Cause when they tend to over heat and "self-damaged" in high heat combat. When they're firing at a sustained rate for too long at the maximum distance.

NaijaPikinGidi: I wonder what you were fed in 2013. I hope 2014 gives you room to gain maturity in terms common sense and basic comprehension!

Happy new year my African brother. May "Cheneke" bless you with a brain this year,to bring maturity and facts into this debate.

Henry120: Happy new year people. Wishing you all a priceless 2014.

Happy new year my African brother. May this be a productive year for our profane filled debate.

agaugust: South African soldiers spent some years R.aping many young girls and housewives in congo DRC, you want me to repeat that source ?

.

Talking about the DRC sad news are coming in that FARDC brave commander has been killed in a ambush: Colonel Mamadou Ndala. He led FARDC troops in the August offensive and the current one.#SAD

chris365: like i said. unlike you, i state facts not fictions.

it's funny you talk of a year while the war lasted far more than that. lemme give you a reminder. i'm only going to post battles that involved SADF. enjoy

Battle of Quifangondo
10 November 1975
Decisive Allied strategic, tactic and moral Victory. Luanda was saved, the FNLA was destroyed, the South African invaders were forced to retreat.
When the fate of the Republic was in danger, it was this battle that changed the outcome.

Battle of Ebo
23 November 1975
Cuban tactical and moral victory.

A team of 70 Cuban soldiers ambushed an enemy armoured group.
They used a single rocket-launcher BM-21, that proved successful in the Battle of Quifangondo, together mortar’s, light, RPG-7’s fire and a single 76mm gun.
There was also a second group of 140 Angolans but they didn’t reached the battle in time.

The South-African and counter revolutionary UNITA rebels suffered massive losses thanks the difficult ground for their armoured vehicles.
6 South African Eland armoured vehicles were destroyed and 1 was captured intact. The enemy suffered a combined loss of 76 dead, even if the S.A. Propaganda admitted only 4 dead and 50 UNITA dead, another source admitted a number of 30 dead and 40 wounded between the S.A.
Also a little Recce aircraft Bosbok was shot down, with two SA pilots dead. Cuban sources counted the enemy losses of 80 or 90 killed, close to the admitted mixed S.A. – UNITA losses
During the battle only one Cuban was killed (named Juan Tamayo Castro) and other 5 were wounded.

Battle of Cuito Cuanavale
Aerial clashes in autumn of 1987, battle between December and March 1988
It was the decisive and definitive Allied victory, both tactical, Strategic and moral.
It was the biggest African battle after the WWII, nicknamed the African Stalingrad.
While there was a near peace’s agreement, both the two sides tried to arrive with the best results.
Curiously while the South African propaganda claimed that was not their intention to take Cuito, the massive use of their best equipment and men seem a bit contradictory, as their incredible, repetitive and failed effort to take the Cuban-Angolan positions. During the battle the defenders where 1,500 Cubans and 10000 Angolans while the South African were 4000 and the 8000 UNITA. Others number increase at 7000-9000 South African, 10000 of UNITA, 2000-5000 Cubans and 20000-18000 Angolans, other speak also of 40000 Cubans, Angolans and other African allied together.

A first stage of the battle was the aerial war.
In the Autumn of the 1987 the Cuban Air Force defeated the South African Air Force in a serial of air-to-air battle.


Battle of Tchipa
4 May-27 June 1988
The successful offensive of Cuban, Angola and SWAPO forces on the border line with Namibia
Decisive Moral and Tactical Victory.
After the Victory at Cuito and thanks the total Air Superiority our mixed forces attacked the enemy inside their occupied land.

google is your neighbor. endeavor to use it often.

when I did "cut and paste" your Brothers became mad,saying "we should state facts Mr cut and paste" here's what the outside world not from SA nor Cuba said about the battle of cuito:.........
"Chester Crocker, who was the U.S. Assistant
Secretary of State for African Affairs during the
Reagan Administration, said that: "In some of
the bloodiest battles of the entire civil war, a
combined force of some 8000 UNITA fighters
and 4000 SADF troops not only destroyed one
FAPLA brigade but badly damaged several
others out of a total FAPLA force of some 18
000 engaged in the three-pronged offensive.
Estimates of FAPLA losses ranged upward of
4000 killed and wounded….Large quantities of
Soviet equipment were destroyed or fell into
UNITA and SADF hands when FAPLA broke into
a disorganized retreat... The 1987 military
campaign represented a stunning humiliation
for the Soviet Union, its arms and its
strategy. ... As of mid-November, the UNITA/
SADF force had destroyed the Cuito Cuanavale
airfield and pinned down thousands of FAPLA's
best remaining units clinging onto the town's
defensive perimeters.""

chris365: thanks to the tanzanians and UN for covering your as5. you should have proved all that in CAR

Facts only please: ON which front or battle did the SANDF members stand behind Tanzanians?. In CAR SA soldiers fought well it was politics that resulted in the withdrawal. General Solly Shoke clearly said "Running for us is not an option,our member are on the ground".

[quote author=drag_on]Do you know snipers were considered cowards not long ago? of course that is another debate. The job of a sniper is to remain UNSEEN shoot and scoot/ reconnaissance. That is not going to end wars quickly, as you said, the towns were taken by FARDC/FIB. 300 meters is indeed standoff if the person is hiding/ camouflaged so as not to be seen(sniper).Do you think you would be alive as a regular soldier 300 meters from an enemy base?[/quote]Snipers can effective like taking out enemy's most effective and feared Commander. 300m is not a stand off distance a normal assault rifle can hit targets at 300mm. Without reccon missions by SANDF special forces+Oryx helicopters the fight would've been tough. FIB? I thought you said Tanzania did. You clearly have no idea where the battles took place and who was doing the fighting. Answer this: who trained Colonel Mamadou,the men who was commanding FADRC.

chris365: is this supposed to be a joke? when have you ever presented facts here other than your plenty fictitious imaginations?

i see how my facts have got you running away like a scared horse. don't talk trash if you can't back them up. thanks

Tell me what part of my post is false,then correct me. Not just screaming you're wrong without saying what part of my post is wrong.

[quote author=drag_on]And are your Snipers FACING THE ENEMY? or is it a "Stand off " engagement.?[/quote]They faced the enemy in the Northern front where a Tanzanian soldier was killed,this is also where a SA soldier got shot in the thigh. It was during this time M23 reported of Twitter that they were now battling TZ and SA soldiers on the front they were pushed and ran to defend Bunagana. Stand off? You call a 300m a stand off?........SANDF special forces are highly trained infiltrating bases is what they do best.

chris365: The fact is not far from the truth. Notice how they fled from CAR only to rush in to fight behind Tanzania and UN?

Weakness successfully hidden. But only to the ignorant

Let's talk facts please. About how the soldiers operated/fought during the battle if you're going to say run provide us or just tell us on which engagement area did SANDF members run. Cause saying a withdrawal is running I can too say Nigeria ran from Mali.

[quote author=drag_on]I am sorry to inform you,but from that data a Browning Machine Gun from the Vietnam war(1967) has a longer range kill than your sniper.Really,nothing Special there.
Who said Tanzania led the forces? It was the Congolese Army with Front-line help from the Tanzanians.you guys did mortar, sniper and re-con work, with the occasional launch of your choppers.[/quote]Let's take this back to the August fighting,when FARDC fought on two fronts. Who stood behind each FARDC battalion?..........Any 2km sniper kill is special. Reccon work behind enemy lines disrupting their supplies and destroying their command structure. Behind each FARDC battalion stood a Tanzanian and SA company,while mortar teams and artillery were bombarding the Kibati hill. Destroying the tower on top of it. Ask DRC people or journalists how the bombs fired by SANDF mortar teams were whether they were normal or what,investigate that and come tell us your findings.

[quote author=drag_on]You SANDF was the support Force not the Main force(Tip of the Spear).The Congolese and Tanzanian Army did most of the Fighting.The Current Sniper range record belongs to the British Soilder in Afghanistan,that, is the CONFIRMED record,others are mere claims.

http://kitup.military.com/2010/05/brit-makes-record-sniper-kill-in-afghanistan.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_Harrison_(sniper)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longest_recorded_sniper_kills

notice the range of your soldier.[/quote]The SANDF special forces where ahead of FARDC and FIB. Destroying their(M23) command structure,remember when the story of how one operator approached a M23 base and killed their commander with a accuracy international rifle?......FARDC was the tip then FIB companies behind this companies were Tanzanian artillery. But after M23 was defeated in the towns of Kanyamahoro(Southern front by "FIB&FARDC),Rumangabo(Western fron by "FARDC",Kiwanja(Northern front by "FIB&FARDC),Rutshuru(Northern front by "FIB&FARDC) they didn't put up any resistance they left a few men to fire their rifles and run like when their final strong hold Bunagana fell.... On th sniper issue I didn't say it was the longest shot ever but it is one of the longest shots holding the number 6 spot. The only sniper on the continent with a confirmed 2km kill. On which front did the SANDF stand behind Tanzanian troops? Cause behind the FIB troops were artillery the FIB troops were the "buffer".

[quote author=drag_on]Your General refused to Comment on the story,so it is not a verified story.
Give us sources,that is standard practice.
Where in the world did an Armed force engage another in a high threat environment in a CONVENTIONAL war, and score ZERO deaths. LMAO only in South Africa.[/quote]The man heading SANDF's joint operations Lieutenant General Derrick Mgwebi. Didn't accept nor comment cause it is not a SANDF mission but the UN's. Besides no defence force really puts out there its special forces operations. The M23 was separated to fight on three fronts North,South and West. What are you denying that the SANDF engaged the M23?

[quote author=drag_on]Why should i disprove what cant be proven/verified? have you heard of the words lies/propaganda?
Give us credible sources.
The onus is on you cause you are the one making the claims.[/quote]Credible what?.....Aren't you Nigerians the ones who claimed the 2km sniper shot by an SANDF operator fake? Which I gave you many sources?............Just tell me which part of my post is wrong,then I can correct you. Only FARDC fought on the "western front" the hottest battle being that of the town of Rumangabo. Tell me where my post is wrong and correct it with your "facts".......TODAY Mike...ZA is spitting fire!!!!!!

[quote author=na_chris_be_dis]yet more lies from just your saliva. no evidence. just spits. shame of a nation with too many ignoran and fake interpreters.

this is why m23 lost support. dummy

US Calls on Rwanda to End M23 Support
m.voanews.com/a/1707924.html

threats and pressures from world powers.

I thought your coming back was from rehab. you seem to be getting worse than before. too bad[/quote]Answer this. When did Rwanda stop supplying the M23?.

[quote author=drag_on]pls drop a link, all talk no substance.[/quote]Link for what?...@Richieboy reported live during the battle+my other sources. You can dispute what I'm saying by telling us what happened and where.

[quote author=na_chris_be_dis]as I am not fond of spitting like a lama(mike_za) senslessly without proof, I'm going to answer your questions with credible fact.

The Battle of Cuito Cuanavale and the Nuclear Option

For six monthsthe SADF threw everythingthey had at the town [Cuito Cuanavale]. In December1987,1500 Cubans joined the defenders.
With the full powerof the SADF aimedat Cuito Cuanavale, Cuban, Angolan and SWAPO forcesprepared for a counter-attack.Fifty thousandCuban volunteers wentto Angola to help the fight.
Angolan and Cuban MIG 23 pilotssweptthe South African Air Force from Angolan skies. But SADF artillery superioritymeant they couldstill rain 20,000 shells onto Cuito Cuanavale every day.
In major battlesin January, Februaryand Marchof 1988, the South Africans failed to take the town. Campbell claimsthatat thispoint,press-gangedblack SADF soldiersbeganrebellingand SA presidentP.K. Botha flew to the front to stopthe military commandcollapsing.

Failing to take Cuito Cuanavale with over 9,000 soldiers even after announcingto the world thatCuito Cuanavale had fallen; losing its superiorityin the air; and facedwith mutiniesfrom the black troopsof the pressedganged battalions,the operationalcommandof the SADF broke downand the presidentP.W. Botha had to fly to the war zoneinsideAngola. Botha, it was later revealedhad flown in to intervenein a disputeamong the South African military highcommandon whetherthe apartheid army should use tacticalnuclear weapons. Botha decidedagainst the use of nuclear weaponsbecauseat thattimeapartheid South Africa was a pariah state.
www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread588726/pg1[b]

as I am not fond of spitting like a lama(mike_za) senslessly without proof, I'm going to answer your questions with credible fact.

The Battle of Cuito Cuanavale and the Nuclear Option

For six monthsthe SADF threw everythingthey had at the town [Cuito Cuanavale]. In December1987,1500 Cubans joined the defenders.
With the full powerof the SADF aimedat Cuito Cuanavale, Cuban, Angolan and SWAPO forcesprepared for a counter-attack.Fifty thousandCuban volunteers wentto Angola to help the fight.
Angolan and Cuban MIG 23 pilotssweptthe South African Air Force from Angolan skies. But SADF artillery superioritymeant they couldstill rain 20,000 shells onto Cuito Cuanavale every day.
In major battlesin January, Februaryand Marchof 1988, the South Africans failed to take the town. Campbell claimsthatat thispoint,press-gangedblack SADF soldiersbeganrebellingand SA presidentP.K. Botha flew to the front to stopthe military commandcollapsing.

Failing to take Cuito Cuanavale with over 9,000 soldiers even after announcingto the world thatCuito Cuanavale had fallen; losing its superiorityin the air; and facedwith mutiniesfrom the black troopsof the pressedganged battalions,the operationalcommandof the SADF broke downand the presidentP.W. Botha had to fly to the war zoneinsideAngola. Botha, it was later revealedhad flown in to intervenein a disputeamong the South African military highcommandon whetherthe apartheid army should use tacticalnuclear weapons. Botha decidedagainst the use of nuclear weaponsbecauseat thattimeapartheid South Africa was a pariah state.
www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread588726/pg1[/b]

as I am not fond of spitting like a lama(mike_za) senslessly without proof, I'm going to answer your questions with credible fact.

The Battle of Cuito Cuanavale and the Nuclear Option

For six monthsthe SADF threw everythingthey had at the town [Cuito Cuanavale]. In December1987,1500 Cubans joined the defenders.
With the full powerof the SADF aimedat Cuito Cuanavale, Cuban, Angolan and SWAPO forcesprepared for a counter-attack.Fifty thousandCuban volunteers wentto Angola to help the fight.
Angolan and Cuban MIG 23 pilotssweptthe South African Air Force from Angolan skies. But SADF artillery superioritymeant they couldstill rain 20,000 shells onto Cuito Cuanavale every day.
In major battlesin January, Februaryand Marchof 1988, the South Africans failed to take the town. Campbell claimsthatat thispoint,press-gangedblack SADF soldiersbeganrebellingand SA presidentP.K. Botha flew to the front to stopthe military commandcollapsing.

Failing to take Cuito Cuanavale with over 9,000 soldiers even after announcingto the world thatCuito Cuanavale had fallen; losing its superiorityin the air; and facedwith mutiniesfrom the black troopsof the pressedganged battalions,the operationalcommandof the SADF broke downand the presidentP.W. Botha had to fly to the war zoneinsideAngola. Botha, it was later revealedhad flown in to intervenein a disputeamong the South African military highcommandon whetherthe apartheid army should use tacticalnuclear weapons. Botha decidedagainst the use of nuclear weaponsbecauseat thattimeapartheid South Africa was a pariah state.
www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread588726/pg1[/quote]I'm not asking you to copy and paste a bunch of stuff. I'm asking in which Battle was the SADF defeated by Cuba during the 88-89 operations and who lost many men and equipment. Everything the SADF had? Are you crazy South Africa had 6 nuclear bombs which could be dropped from the Canberra and Impala. Everything they had? Only 16 G5 guns were deployed(A single battery was 8 guns back then not 6 of today). Less than 50 tanks were deployed. ON WHICH BATTLE?!?.....WHAT HAPPENED AT THE LOMBA RIVER?!?.

[quote author=na_chris_be_dis]as I am not fond of spitting like a lama(mike_za) senslessly without proof, I'm going to answer your questions with credible fact.

The Battle of Cuito Cuanavale and the Nuclear Option

For six monthsthe SADF threw everythingthey had at the town [Cuito Cuanavale]. In December1987,1500 Cubans joined the defenders.
With the full powerof the SADF aimedat Cuito Cuanavale, Cuban, Angolan and SWAPO forcesprepared for a counter-attack.Fifty thousandCuban volunteers wentto Angola to help the fight.
Angolan and Cuban MIG 23 pilotssweptthe South African Air Force from Angolan skies. But SADF artillery superioritymeant they couldstill rain 20,000 shells onto Cuito Cuanavale every day.
In major battlesin January, Februaryand Marchof 1988, the South Africans failed to take the town. Campbell claimsthatat thispoint,press-gangedblack SADF soldiersbeganrebellingand SA presidentP.K. Botha flew to the front to stopthe military commandcollapsing.

Failing to take Cuito Cuanavale with over 9,000 soldiers even after announcingto the world thatCuito Cuanavale had fallen; losing its superiorityin the air; and facedwith mutiniesfrom the black troopsof the pressedganged battalions,the operationalcommandof the SADF broke downand the presidentP.W. Botha had to fly to the war zoneinsideAngola. Botha, it was later revealedhad flown in to intervenein a disputeamong the South African military highcommandon whetherthe apartheid army should use tacticalnuclear weapons. Botha decidedagainst the use of nuclear weaponsbecauseat thattimeapartheid South Africa was a pariah state.
www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread588726/pg1[b]

as I am not fond of spitting like a lama(mike_za) senslessly without proof, I'm going to answer your questions with credible fact.

The Battle of Cuito Cuanavale and the Nuclear Option

For six monthsthe SADF threw everythingthey had at the town [Cuito Cuanavale]. In December1987,1500 Cubans joined the defenders.
With the full powerof the SADF aimedat Cuito Cuanavale, Cuban, Angolan and SWAPO forcesprepared for a counter-attack.Fifty thousandCuban volunteers wentto Angola to help the fight.
Angolan and Cuban MIG 23 pilotssweptthe South African Air Force from Angolan skies. But SADF artillery superioritymeant they couldstill rain 20,000 shells onto Cuito Cuanavale every day.
In major battlesin January, Februaryand Marchof 1988, the South Africans failed to take the town. Campbell claimsthatat thispoint,press-gangedblack SADF soldiersbeganrebellingand SA presidentP.K. Botha flew to the front to stopthe military commandcollapsing.

Failing to take Cuito Cuanavale with over 9,000 soldiers even after announcingto the world thatCuito Cuanavale had fallen; losing its superiorityin the air; and facedwith mutiniesfrom the black troopsof the pressedganged battalions,the operationalcommandof the SADF broke downand the presidentP.W. Botha had to fly to the war zoneinsideAngola. Botha, it was later revealedhad flown in to intervenein a disputeamong the South African military highcommandon whetherthe apartheid army should use tacticalnuclear weapons. Botha decidedagainst the use of nuclear weaponsbecauseat thattimeapartheid South Africa was a pariah state.
www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread588726/pg1[/b]

as I am not fond of spitting like a lama(mike_za) senslessly without proof, I'm going to answer your questions with credible fact.

The Battle of Cuito Cuanavale and the Nuclear Option

For six monthsthe SADF threw everythingthey had at the town [Cuito Cuanavale]. In December1987,1500 Cubans joined the defenders.
With the full powerof the SADF aimedat Cuito Cuanavale, Cuban, Angolan and SWAPO forcesprepared for a counter-attack.Fifty thousandCuban volunteers wentto Angola to help the fight.
Angolan and Cuban MIG 23 pilotssweptthe South African Air Force from Angolan skies. But SADF artillery superioritymeant they couldstill rain 20,000 shells onto Cuito Cuanavale every day.
In major battlesin January, Februaryand Marchof 1988, the South Africans failed to take the town. Campbell claimsthatat thispoint,press-gangedblack SADF soldiersbeganrebellingand SA presidentP.K. Botha flew to the front to stopthe military commandcollapsing.

Failing to take Cuito Cuanavale with over 9,000 soldiers even after announcingto the world thatCuito Cuanavale had fallen; losing its superiorityin the air; and facedwith mutiniesfrom the black troopsof the pressedganged battalions,the operationalcommandof the SADF broke downand the presidentP.W. Botha had to fly to the war zoneinsideAngola. Botha, it was later revealedhad flown in to intervenein a disputeamong the South African military highcommandon whetherthe apartheid army should use tacticalnuclear weapons. Botha decidedagainst the use of nuclear weaponsbecauseat thattimeapartheid South Africa was a pariah state.
www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread588726/pg1[/quote]I'm not asking you to copy and paste a bunch of stuff. I'm asking in which Battle was the SADF defeated by Cuba during the 88-89 operations and who lost many men and equipment.

[quote author=drag_on]All South Africa did in the DRC was of a 'stand off' nature' to prevent casualties. Reconnaissance, Artillery,snipers, radio, helicopter Gunships; against M23 that could do next to nothing in response. That is why you had just 4 wounded and you got no glory for your participation.That is why Tanzania led your Forces, they got all the glory and regional influence.They fought alongside the DRC Army. Tell me, What town did south african troops capture and hold during the conflict? You fought an Army equiped with mostly Artillery and few pockets of NVG troops and you are ranting. All you did was behind Tanzanian and congolese troops. SMH.[/quote]How was a South African soldier shot on the thigh?.....South African didn't deploy artillery only mortar(long range mortars) teams. So now you're accepting that SANDF snipers are deployed? They operated in front of all FARDC&FIB soldiers. South African troops during the last offensive operated along side our Tanzanian brothers in Northern and Southern fronts. The most heated front being the North where major battles took places in Kiwaja and Rutshuru this is where Tanzania lost one of their junior commanders. On this front were FARDC and FIB(SANDF&TPDF) pushed,M23 causing them to ran from there to take defensive positions way from the town of Bunagana. In desperation when defeat was inevitable and FARDC+FIB were pushing them towrds Uganda they cut down trees claiming they're trying to "stop tanks",while their president crossed into Uganda in huge car convoy.

agaugust: south african bush war pilots flew Impala and Mirage jets, NOT Gripen and Hawk jets.

even your current Gripen pilots are not qualified except 6 men. so how can old retired Impala and Mirage jet pilots qualify to fly your Gripen to bring in some Bush War 27 years ago experience with ancient outdated aircraft they flew ?

they will crash your Gripens on ground during take off, they wont even get airborne

.

Answer this: How many Gripens were deployed during operation Uxolo? From Limpopo,Gauteng,Eastern cape............SAAB trained six pilots that's where your confusion starts from............Lessons from the bush war are taught to new pilots,soldiers and sea men. Lessons from both sides of the war.