₦airaland Forum

chris365: a typical war tactic for SADF that was used during the bush war. while they retreated from the cubans, they laid mines to slow down the cubans from catching up fast. thereby giving the SADF more time to safely retreat. but what hapens when you push for an offensive? that's where the real battle lies. the battle of cuito exposed your weakness. after several attempts, you had to retreat and continue shelling from 40km (which is what you do best)... fight from a distance.

you can only fool a novice with the bush war nonsense. i studied it, so there's nothing you can tell me about it that i don't know

How many Cuban troops were deployed? Around 30 000 against 300 SADF elite warriors. The SADF totally stopped their advance and smashed them while they were retreating. Capturing cuito would have caused many casualties unless South Africa reinforced with more troops,artillery and tanks. But as the objective of stopping the advance was achieved,it was unnecessary to capture that town. South Africa learned a lot from that war,Nigeria has never had any war to learn from. Unless that civil war,which was "old school". A war of marching troops in columns. In a armour(tanks and artillery) warfare South Africa is more experienced than Nigeria.

chris365: look at this mr copy and paste. so you don't know the battle of cuito was after the lomba river? the battle at lomba river was squarely between FAPLA and UNITA. the Cubans were not involved. SADF showed up to support UNITA with the G6 artillery when they saw that they were almost defeated. guy, FAPLA retreated cos SADF bombed them with chemical weapons (please do your research). it was a battle FAPLA never prepared for.

bragging that you defeated FAPLA is like Nigeria bragging to have defeated Liberian and sierra Leonanie rebels. there's no difference.

here's are some quotes from a book i read about SADF advancement on cuito which was your real test.

"None of these decisive battles, which are recorded in great detail in the South African accounts of the war (irrespective of their triumphant distortions), are mentioned by Zhdarkin".

"At one stage of the retreat (according to Zhdarkin), they were even bombed with “chemical weapons containing poisonous gas,” against which they had no gas masks for protection"

"The most effusive praise was rightly reserved for the Cubans, without whom the author would not have survived to record these memoirs. It was the Cubans who had supplied them, fought and died for Angola, and forced South Africa to sue for peace after having allegedly destroyed most of their tanks and driven the SADF out of Angolan and back over the Namibian border."

the book is titled "Memoirs of a Participant of the Angolan War (1986-1988)" by Igor Zhdarkin

SADF had low casualties cos they used UNITA as cover while they shelled cuito from behind with the G6. guy, russia only sent advisers, not troops. if they had joined the cubans, SA would have been a wasteland by now.

cuba was inexperienced in conventional war (refute it if you have proof).

it was a war you "fought" not "won". so you should not brag cos i have many accounts of how cuba brushed SADF to retreat.

What destroyed the 60 out 70 tanks at the Lomba river? UNITA? NO,the SADF Ratels,G5 and G6 did. The Ratel ZT3 made its first kill during that battle. FAPLA was surprised,the element of surprise is widely used in any war. SADF's 32 battalion and 61 mechanised unit fought well in that battle. You should get Helmoed's books about accounts in the war. In some accounts today's deputy chief of the army was caught up in the fighting,while commanding his motorised infantry. Since you say Cuba was inexperience in conventional warfare,is Nigeria experienced in that? Have Nigeria ever fought against another country or enemy with paratroopers,motorised infantry,mechanised infantry,special forces,sappers(engineers) to equipment like Anti aircraft missiles,Artillery,main battle tanks,MRAPS,rocket launchers,armoured fighting vehicles,IFVs,fighter jets,supply trucks and recovery vehicles? To me the answer is NO,this proves your lack of experience.

agaugust: land mines CANNOT stop nigerian army, we have hundreds of Mine Resistant Ambush Protected vehicles, and we are manufacturing about 3 different types in nigeria so soon we will have thousands of MRAPS.

nigerian army is NOT Togolese or Congolese army....please s.hut up, and stop fooling around !

Have you ever seen a real MRAP? This "things" can't take on a land mine. Compared to Maraunder,casspir,RG31,Mamba and Buffel. South Africa is the best MRAP manufacture even the USA and the UK bought our vehicles for use in Afghanistan. And NO army will send soldiers in MRAPS to attack another army. Besides those vehicles are small and can't carry as many troops like the casspirs and Ratels(which the SANDF has over 900 of them). To fight another army cross a mine field you will need many IFV,Tanks,artillery,Supply trucks and many fighter bombers to bombard the enemy while you're clearing the mine field.

agaugust: the last war between Egypt and Israel ended in a draw/stalemate/no winner....but Egypt had the upper hand and almost defeated Israel until peace was negotiated....that is war history lesson for you.

today, Egypt has 400 F-16 jet fighters/Apache helicopter gunships, about 1.5 million soldiers, about 30,000 tanks/amoured vehicles/artillery, about 20,000 anti-tank/anti-aircraft missiles.

Egypt is the strongest military in africa, anybody that says a different thing is a born fool from his m.other's womb

see photo of E-3 Hawkeye....Egypt has 8 Hawkeyes. Egypt will wipe out all south african airforce from long distance....they Egytian army will invade and occupy south africa untill you kneel down and beg them for mercy

https://rlv.zcache.com/e_2c_hawkeye_poster-r0d3b954064c9410196abe17786b9fce6_wv3_8byvr_512.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iLS6sFD9d4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoNha1hUQ8w


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIkpUW83uTc


[size=16pt]the strongest military in Africa is Egypt[/size]


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Egypt didn't have the upper hand. Cairo was about to be captured and the USA flown supplies like the TOW missiles to the Israelis. Remember the battle of the Chinese farm? Israel centurion tanks were headed to Cairo. And Israel was fighting Syria on the Golan heights at the same time. It is fair to say that the Israeli tank crews held their own,despite being out numbered. Their gunnery skills were good,they could hit Egyptian tanks before they can get close to return fire. How can you lose a war,with the T-66(with lasers targeting systems) and modified T-55 tanks against numerical inferior centurion tanks. Which didn't have night vision capacities,while the enemy had the advantage of massive numbers,technology and the element of surprise. The only reason is your soldiers are ill trained and bad commanding tactics from your Generals. As of today Egypt relies on aid from the USA and Qatar,without it their equipment would "rust" like the 200 fighter jets strong Libyan air force. And they still can't take on Israel tanks from the Merkava to Sabra main battle tanks.

chris365: please stop using the bush war to justify your military ranking cos it was a war you fought for too long against an inexperienced military and didn't win.

i posted proof of how SADF was pushed back from their offensive on cuito (the only offensive they ever made) and were further pushed back to retreat. how is that something to brag about? no one doubts your capabilities to build weapons, but we are saying that your military is not up to it.

countries like Ethiopia have fought wars and won against colonial invaders, against powerful eritrea etc but we still underrate them. Uganda fought a full scale war against many nations who backed Tanzania(would have won tanzania alone) so why should you be bragging about a bush war you didn't win?

Nigeria only came close to a full scale war with cameroon of which they chickened out. aside from that, we have had small skirmishes with our neighbors and occupied small portion of chad before we were asked to withdraw. (i remember buhari commanded the artillery unit).

but we showed our might in major peace enforcements that the west were afraid to intervene in, fought the bloodiest civil war against an army that was backed by france and other african countries including SA and won. that's enough to make you sh*t your pants.

you can't claim to have military knowledge and not know that any country under sanction if not being blockaded, can still get arms secretly from any country willing to sell especially if there's a pact with such country cos war is good business for arms dealers. e.g russia continues to supply arms to syria after being sanctioned

point is... yeah you fought the bush war..."fought" not "won".... so until you are able to win any conflict, you don't have permission to use the bush war to justify your military ranking.

even egypt has a better war record than SA (at least they defeated libya).

You've only read about 1987-1988 battles(operation hooper and parker). But you should read about the battle of bridge 41. Regarding experience I can say Nigeria is not experience. If you're going to say the USSR and Cuba were inexperienced. With Cuito we all know what happened: The enemy rushed south with tanks,vehicles and artillery. Nigerian army has never destroyed more 60 tanks,which the SADF did in the Lomba river. Nigerian artillery men have destroyed air fields,tanks,fighter jets,air defence systems,APCs and large numbers of infantry. Remember 3000 elite SADF warriors faced more than 2 brigades,but pushed them back to cuito. Besides we all know SADF trained 11 000 infantry for a blitzkrieg offensive. What I'm saying is just because Nigeria fought rebels and won,doesn't mean they can fight. They've never faced a well equipped army like Cuba. They've never been to what I call FULL BLOWN or an ALL OUT WAR(tanks,artillery,infantry from paratroops,motorised,sappers"engineers" special forces and mechanised units,fighter jets,rocket launchers and supply trucks. Winning against rebels doesn't count.

NaijaPikinGidi: Tell your military school teachers that they taught you rubbish! Now it's clear why you guys talk like kids. You still have not shown reasonable basis for your previous comments! Suegbe! Bush war is easy and UN soldiers are yet to complete battle in DRC or fully dislodge and disarm the M23? Tell your teachers to stop teaching you nonsense!

The bush war was never easy. Nigeria has never fought a war like the bush war. A war of tanks to artillery. The Bush war allowed South Africa to develop systems fitted for the African battle space. This is the reason why SAAF asked SAAB to "South Africanise" the Gripen a bit. It is the same reason why the Badger Vehicle will be built in SA with Denel weapons and LMT armour. Nigeria buys any systems it thinks will operate well in Africa. I once said this before that a mine fields can stop the 150 000 strong Nigerian forces. Giving time for another country to call up reserves,armed them and head straight to the front lines to meet the enemy. Or bring up to operational standards some non-operational systems like tanks and armoured fighting vehicle.

NaijaPikinGidi: Rumor peddlers will be treated as such. The insults are those from an empty skull. Never he has the opportunity to redeem himself whenever he provides evidence to back up the rumour. We all know the drill therefore Mike..ZA must comply no matter how much insults he spits out with his fangs!

He just told you Hinds were used. Why don't you ask him for proof?. And I only spit "venom" in return never on the offensive.

chris365: this reminds me of how a whole arab league (with qatar, saudi, UAE and egypt that have better weapons and airforce) had to beg the west to send their own soldiers to fight in their back yard. something that a lesser equipped and ill funded African Union will never try.

i'll have to agree with you on this one.

so the legit list should be Nigeria,.....everyone else

If we are going to rank Africa's armed forces. 1. It shouldn't be about countries' armed forces only we need to look into the politics of the countries. 2. The stability of the country(militarily and politically) 3. We should look into the economy(countries need money to fund wars,in a last resort military constructors might be paid big money to fight for a country). 4. Security of the countries (If you're gonna go on a full blown war of tanks,fighter jets,artillery,APCs and supply trucks your country must be secured from terrorists,armed groups and hostile nations) or else while your army is out defending your nation,some group or terrorist group might grab the opportunity and open a second front at home with devastating results. 5. Arms supply( A country need to get or procure arms quick quick,with spare parts and maintaining systems),getting arms from the black market might mean your country will only buy small arms and these can be threatened by special forces on sabotage missions. 6. Allies(Say a country is hit with sanctions,allies will be needed to procure arms and spare parts) Like Kenya and Sudan. And resupply the country in war secretly with fresh troops. Just to mention a few.

Uyi Iredia: Whose ? And pardon my ignorance but why were they there

Unlike your brothers,you're asking nicely. Here then: The South African company(ATE) upgraded Algerian Hinds to super hinds. During the hostage drama in that Algerian oil complex. Attack helicopters were rumoured to have been used to destroy "technicals" with hostages. Though some people say it was tanks not helos. But hinds were flying above that complex,that's a fact.

Henry120: What I meant was their are many spoof accounts operated by people who have no connection whatsoever to al shabaab, claiming to speak for the group. I did not say al shabaab has many accounts.

Can you give me the handles of the fake ones you know?

NaijaPikinGidi: Stay with the rumours!

Bloody Nigerian there were images of super hinds flying close to the complex.

Underground: By the way, based on the sheer quantity and qaulity of equipment, personnel and battle experience, I would say the Egyptian military is way ahead of its counterparts...Just my opinion though...And I am Nigerian by the way

Do South Africans have a similar website in the mould of NL? I wonder what that would be like

First 1. Egypt will always be ranked below South Africa,Ethiopia and Nigeria. Because they have never proved them selves in the battlefield. Equipment won't raise their rank,because they had superior equipment during the Yim Koppur war like the T-62(with night vision capabilities,Israel centurion tank crews had to use NVG to find targets during the night),portable anti aircraft missiles and anti tank missiles(like the deadly wire guided Sagger missile). But Egypt was badly beaten,Israel cut through their flanks to capture or threatened Cairo. Second. 2 Their soldiers can't fight all over Africa(sub-saharan africa to be specific),they're trained for desert warfare. We all know what happens when desert commandos try to fight in the sub-saharan. We saw it in Uganda when Libyan commandos were easily defeated. Third 3. Like Israelis would say "Arabs can't fight".

Henry120: The algerians are crazy. They don't differentiate between hostage and hostage taker. Simply get your MI-35p and blast everybody to smithering.

Some rumours claimed they used the South African(By ATE) upgraded super Hind.

Henry120: They threatened south africa? Does south africa have troops deployed in somalia? You know, you are lying right? There are many spoof shabab accounts on twitter, their main twitter handle has since been suspended by twitter.

It was suspended over the weekend after claiming responsibility. Al Shabaab doesn't have many accounts.

NaijaPikinGidi: MiguelMi6, now you can obviously see the levels of stupidity that some folks on the SA side bring to the debate! In maintaining your neutral stance can you mention how many Nigerians have made baseless comments? Now compare with the SA commentators! Mike..ZA, CraigB, FighterPilot, and Ghanaian surrogate and spammer-in-chief AwodwaGyanOniwe lead the pack! Now because you have spoken out to all to maintain decorum ... you are getting some typical Mike..ZA insults? The Provost Marshall road won't be easy ... but hang in there.

You know I'm open of a fair debate. Until you bustards bring up insults. Since you agree with this: "Let's talk about military stuff"

gst101: some questions pls. What informs research in military institutions? What and what is taught to students in military academy? What is researched into before a new fighting skill/tactic is developed?

Lessons can go from peacekeeping to full blown war tactics. On what is researched I'm sure,but manuals are written by officers. Remember when that Iranian General or Colonel said Iran was going write manuals that the US military will read.

Henry120: Anyone noticed , since the start of the siege on the kenyan mall, @craigB has suddenly disappeared from nairaland. My thinking is that Craigb might actually be among the attackers currently corned by FN SCAR-H wielding kenyan special forces in the westgate mall. I just can't phantom why he forgot to carry @mike..ZA along

As for @fighterpilot, when infant terrible, julius malema comes to power as the president of "zuid efrika", he would be shipped to mumbai to meet his ancestors

Kenya is receiving help from Israel and the USA. And oh Al shabaab threatened Uganda and South Africa on Twitter after the attacks.

Fighter Pilot: The Denel's seeker 400 heavily loaded with two mokopa missiles on a battle mode.

http://www.uasvision.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Denel_seeker_400.2.jpg

What's good is that Denel will be developing impi missile for the Seeker 400.

MiguelMi6: I want to believe this is a military discussion/debate thread and not a thread for national criticism of sectors @kwame.tut on nigeria's educational system.Is this part of the discussions here,I really need to why such an irrelevant article should be introduced here as an attribute to the arguements against Nigeria.

You must be a Nigerian newbie. Your brothers resort to insults,joke and irrelevant posts if they can prove something. I have been asking this bustar,ds to show me how Nigerian armed forces were gonna destroy SANDF's long range artillery pieces.

Henry120: Ok. If that would make you sleep well this night.

Nigeria will buy Denel systems. And the SANDF will train your officers,in the near future.

chris365: i think you would rather prefer Nigeria remains in the dark. So what's killing you now is that we are stepping into the light after decades of military rule.

Why don't you wait till the missile program is finished. Cos last time i checked, SA didn't build umkonto or whatever in 1 or 2 years.

After this it is only right to rewrite the list again 1. South Africa 2. Egypt 3. Algeria s. Nigeria. By the time that missile program is finished,South Africa's Denel Marlin missile will be ready for sales.

chris365: and did we ever tell you our defense industry is bigger than yours.

Even your common sense can't deny
hat for a young and new defense industry, Nigeria is coming of age.

Or is it the thought that's killing you?

The thought that is killing me is: Nigeria is still twenty years behind South Africa in military technology. South Africa defence companies can develop systems to deal with any obstacle in Sub-saharan Africa. While Nigeria will have to take a lengthy process to procure new systems. And oh your brother was telling us,how Nigeria has possess missile technology better than that of our country(South Africa).

Henry120: Nigerian airforce drones.

1) The top photo is the isreali made aerostar drone. nigeria bought 3 for use by the airforce air-maritime group

2) The second photo is a nigerian made drone. We have so far built 3 models of the drone, named "amebo". Amebo is a word in pidgin english which means "snitch". The drones were designed by AFIT (airforce institute of technology).

The airforce institute also designed a bomb disposal robot. The program is still under development.

Denel is now putting missiles on our Drones,while you're still test flying yours.

Henry120: You are talking bull-crap. The nigerian president has/ did not neglect the north in favour of the south. Equal opportunities/ attention is giving to all region. However we acknowledge that we have in the past made mistakes, and are determined to correct our failures of the past.

By killing each other and I'm who does that. South Africa made mistakes in the past,but you don't see religious militants bombing cities.

agaugust: those 2 countries are not world powers and both have ZERO modern war experience, they can buy what they wish and dream about

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How many countries bought the B2 spirit bomber,how many countries bought the F22 raptor,how many countries bought the challenger 2 tank,how many countries bought the C5 galaxy transport plane,how many countries bought the Tomahawk missile,how many countries bought the Rafaele fighter jet,how many countries bought the Archer 155mm howitzer. This weapons are seriously good,but operated a few countries. Weapons purchases involved politics. And armies buy systems they can maintain.

agaugust: i posted nigerian NNS Aradu Otomat missile test results early this morning, go back to page 781...fool

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Test by whom? Not Nigerians right?

agaugust: their is only one DENEL CIWS gun on a whole valour frigate, and it is located at that one single side....how will it stop an anti-ship missile coming at its back, front, or the other unprotected side of the warship...or 4 NNS Aradu Otomat missiles coming the same time from all 4 directions ?

does your brain work ? or you are a policeman talking on a military thread/forum ?

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The Umkhonto missile is the first line of defence against missiles and aircrafts from all directions. Let's play video games then: While firing her four Otomat missiles against SAS Amatola,the Nigerian warship NNS Arandu was sunk by a South African submarine's torpedo. Rescued sailors from the sunk warship praise and thanked the highly trained SAN sailors.

agaugust: Otomat has radars and sensors, the command and control officer that launched the missile is not a fool, his NNS ARADU has 180km range DA-08 air search and track radar screen, once he sees valour frigate launch Umkhonto missile, he guides the missile to descend to lowest sea skimming 2m level to avoid any enemy defense.....i have sank your expensive valour warship and wasted your government`s money....fact !!

find a new topic to argue with me...you lost this one

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You play video games too much. The Valour class Frigates are stealthy. Any missile will be shredded into pieces by the Denel dual purpose gun.

agaugust: 1961 SAM-3 missile shot down 1999 american air force super modern stealth jet fighter in Bosnia war. fool

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Sad enough,is that you don't know the story behind that shooting.

agaugust: .

i have read and analysed that your source many times many months ago, thats where i got information that Umkhonto was ONLY tested against a slow speed aircraft sea skua drone UAV...nothing else was tested.

Umkhonto missile has NEVER been tested against any sea level anti-ship missile, America does not buy weapons based on claims by a marketing manager of s company like DENEL posting a weapon claiming it can do what it has never been tested to do.....south africa is a land of fools indeed

i know much more about real life battlefield operation than the DENEL marketing manager trying to sell Umkhonto missile with a false claim that was NOT tested in reality....DENEL is just looking for money desperately....they will get south african navy valour frigate sunk with a false mis-leading claim of 'all-round' protection that was NEVER tested till today...FRAUD

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The USA has bought a lot of SA(Denel made weapons). Are you saying the finish navy is lying?

agaugust: i dont get deceived by DENEL marketing managers' sales strategy to claim what Umkhonto missile has NEVER been tested to do, DENEL tested the missile at home and abroad ONLY against a slow speed sea skua drone UAV and other aircraft UAVs, NEVER tested against a sea skimming missile with sea hugging near water speed of about 1,200km/hr like nigerian Otomat missile.....soweto fools

i follow world standard principles of military combat, i dont follow the words of a DENEL marketing manager who does not know how real war is fought....i dare DENEL to show me where they tested Umkhonto SAM against any other enemy missile to prove Umkhonto as an anti-missile missile.

we in defense industry DO NOT accept weapons to do what they have NOT been tested to do...we dont live by assumptions or guessing...it leads to failure on battlefield and death of many soldiers who were misled to believe they are well protected. fact !!!

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The Finnish navy tested the Umkhonto missiles their drones. Show us where Nigeria sunk a ship,to prove your missiles work.

agaugust: show me source to prove the above claim...Umkhonto missile is a surface to air missile, NOT surface to surface that will hunt after an Otomat anti-ship missile that is skimming sea surface almost touching the ocean waters....fool.

show me source that says Umkhonto missile is designed and tested against a sea skimming anti-ship missile like Otomat...show me source !

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The Umkhonto missile was tested against the Skua target drone. Under that condition(sea skimming). Valour class is also armed with Denel dual purpose gun,which can be used to destroy in coming missiles at the range of 6km.