OKOATA:
Bros there’s nothing like hell, there’s nothing like an everlasting torment. It’s an hoax, a merciful and loving God won’t be that evil. The Bible says a 1000 years is like a day before God, so let’s say I spend 100 years that’s some hours before God so will I go to hell forever because of fornication? Bro once we die that’s the end, it’s an everlasting unconsciousness, it’s like when you shut down the CPU. God is love not evil so hell story is fake...

Lol let me guess you are a Jehovah's witness or probably subscribe to some of their teachings?

Lol Grupo ride on jare. I dey gbadun your vibes.

No offence but thus far the only proponents of religion I've noticed that still bring reasonable points to the table here is larride even if he still has a long way to go in breaking free from his indoctrination.

As for the rest of you religious proponents more work will need to be done on you before you can see things clearly.

But I'm glad we have made you guys stretch your thinking capacity beyond what you are exposed to on sundays at least.

larride:


Maybe I should have said “over 2000 years ago”.

Feel happy now?

Lol for the first time since yesterday, I commend how you quickly trashed that out. I wonder why some people like to focus on pedantic issues and avoid the main subject.

inrainbows:
i pity you people. Only God can change your hearts honestly because even in d bible he said he has given people like u into reprobation that u would continue to believe a lie. I just hope that is not the case. LISTEN! I HAVE WITNESSED THE SUPERNATURAL. I AM A LIVING WITNESS!!! DO NOT BE FOOLISHLY STUBBORN!

The muslim also pities you too cos according to muslims you are going to Islamic hell. Goodluck with that

Eagleboney:
Then why are scientists naming constellations after mythological creatures and beings ,if they do not believe in supernatural beings ,why should they do so??

So if a Christian bears Ogunkola it means he believes in Ogun?

Eagleboney:
Nice question ,
they don't believe In God cos they ve not seen him ,but blindly believe in bigbang theory and evolution ,as if they witnessed it

I have said over and over again that you don't need to understand big bang and evolution before you can see that the claims of the religions of today are not true. So the fact that you don't understand how these things work and you don't want to make efforts to does not make your religion right. As a matter of fact there are atheists before the big bang and evolution theory were propounded. So this your point is not strong.

Powersurge:


Before I say anything, I discovered that you people are more at ease demeaning Christianity, Jesus and so on. But very cautious of mentioning the possible tricks in Mohammed's religion. Obviously because of fear of been beheaded

I also discovered that as you post more stuff, you became more defensive and dogmatic. These are not the traits of good intellectual exercise. The aim is not to "defend" your stance as you doing or feeling there is not "sense" in others'.

Like I said in the NNPC post, when you truly know, you will be humbled in your knowledge. I will not based my views on philosophy. because it's a highly flawed way of reasoning; most of whose claims cannot be empirically established. But based on cognitive reasoning.

Now, let me start from the idea of creation:

It is true that almost every religion and tribe have their own version of creation. Most of which are not intellectually sound. But I will like to take it up from science. If you have going through scientific history of creation, you would understand that there are some suggestions that are purely guess work. Some even claimed life came from fire. Others said from mud. Now let's examine the most popular scientific believe of creation.

The Theory of Evolution stated that life evolved from one single cell (amongst other things). There are questions behind that saying that man have not been able to answer. Why was it that only one cell evolved? Why has no other cells evolved since then? Scientists have recreated the "supposed" conditions that led to the evolution. Yet they were unable to make the so called evolution possible. While it might be possible that life evolved as claimed by some scientists, it is too early to affirm this. Because science has not been able to provide prove that life truly evolved.

The idea of good and evil is purely a philosophical question which I will not go into. Because, like I said earlier, philosophy is a highly flawed field. It is obvious in the way you are passionately defending your stance.

Don't you think that the question of the WHYs. That resonate throughout your posts might be flawed as well? Look at this scenario. A father refused to use his car to send his child to school. This child would have to walk long distance everyday. Sometimes the father also carries some of the child's school mates to school but not his own child. This child would have blisters and injuries, yet the man would not allow him to go to school in his car. Now, do you think the WHYs of the child and the WHYs of the father would be the same? The child would be asking why from his owing position of knowledge. The father would be asking his own WHYs from his own position of knowledge. The child's WHYs would obviously condemn the fathers action. Whether the father is right or wrong is a story for another day.

Coming to prove. If I asked you to prove that you were born, you would probably go and bring some bunch of documents for me. Which could be doctored. You cannot have CONCRETE prove that you were born. Everything that you would provide as a prove could be doctored. But if your brain is enhanced in such a way that you could go back in time to see how you were being giving birth to, then you wouldn't need to prove to anyone that you were born.

I have seen a man on whom cutlass were used. The cutlass was bouncing on his body like when you are using cutlass to cut tyre. I have seen a pastor stretched his hands towards a flower vase before. The vase vibrated continuously until it fell and broke. I have a friend who stumbled into a Christian crusade and was healed of asthma. A man was shot at a close range several times without a single penetration.

There are lots of grey areas. Like if these things are real, why can't they be used to do XYZ? Like I said, prove is in the realm of senses. And it's based on knowledge.

I could write zillions of article on this topic. But to preserve space and to save myself time. I will stop here.

Until there are empirical proves of Big Bang Theory, Evolution and all, it will be exercise in error to say emphatically, that the spiritual is not true. Because as religious folks have not been able to prove empirically that God exists, so has science has not been able to prove emperically that he doesn't exists.

Yes maybe you should also start beheading people over criticising your own religion so that when your parents and kids criticizes your religion you can also behead them. Oh sorry Christians have already done this in the past like what they did to Galilee and I know you are proud of that. It was called the dark ages and where did it lead them? Please you can actually raise a movement and reenact that method so you can take us back to the dark ages.

OKOATA:
You are right, believe is a personal thing from the religious to the atheist etc. The way atheist carry religion matter tire me especially xtian matter. Look at that capslock guy always jumping and hating on xtians. Let people choose want they wanna believe. Me personally am not even religious anymore. What I do is meditation every day and personal prayer. I spend about 30mins to meditate and pray daily. I so much believe in it. I do believe in God but am not religious. I don’t go to church at all.

Hahaha. That image is so apt.

larride:


So you believe that aspect of those books and the other parts are outlandish claims?

Don’t you think it’s absurd you asking me to prove something that happened over 2000 years ago? Where is the logic in that?

Ok thank goodness you can't prove that. At least we are both on the same page that you can't prove it. So you are in no way different from the brainwashed people that bomb innocent souls every now and then in the name of what they can't prove but "just belive"

larride:


When i say most of these people arguing here don’t understand what they are arguing about, they think it’s a lie.

There’s nothing that stop you from being a scientist and also believe in God. Your belief is a personal thing and only you can talk about your own personal experience/belief.

"Your belive is a personal thing" say that to those that brainwashed people bomb their families every now and then in the name of their belief.

NuissancePolice:


There is no way to verify the authenticity of the image. Why are all these things always found in outer space and not on earth where people can verify?

In the end, these people are just out to make money off you. See the last portion of the same website where you retrieved the image from.

Hahaha another horse crap designed to corner the gullible.

larride:


Do you agree he exist? Let’s start from there.

Well some religious books says so so there's a possibility a guy called Jesus once existed somewhere but no those outlandish miracles attributed to him are horse crap. Goodluck to you in proving otherwise.

helpedboy:


The bolded isn't correct, bro. Theism or otherwise (atheism) doesn't border on religion. Its total preoccupation revolves around the existence of GOD or otherwise.

theist
/ˈθiːɪst/
Learn to pronounce

noun
a person who believes in the existence of a god or gods, specifically of a creator who intervenes in the universe.
"I am a hardcore theist and the person most close to me is my God"

adjective
denoting or relating to belief in the existence of a god or gods, specifically of a creator who intervenes in the universe.
"most atheists were were raised in a theist tradition"

Theism. Belief in the existence of a divine reality; usually referring to monotheism (one God), as opposed to pantheism (all is God), polytheism (many gods), and atheism (without God).

So, please be clear: is it that you believe in God but not in religion? Or you disbelieve both?

Cheers, man.

I disbelieve both and it has already been established that this meaning as given by this dictionary and some other dictionaries has lost the original meaning due to the influence of early Christian in the build up of dictionaries. You can check this link for more clarification of this point
https://www.atheists.org/activism/resources/about-atheism/ and better still hop into that thread for religious discussions so we don't derail this thread.

Shadon007:
Much of life may seem uncertain, but look at what we can count on day after day: gravity remains consistent, a hot cup of coffee left on a counter will get cold, the earth rotates in the same 24 hours, and the speed of light doesn't change -- on earth or in galaxies far from us.

Did God design the laws of the universe - Photo of mathematical equations on a blackboard to illustrate the mathematical consistency of natural laws.How is it that we can identify laws of nature that never change? Why is the universe so orderly, so reliable?

"The greatest scientists have been struck by how strange this is. There is no logical necessity for a universe that obeys rules, let alone one that abides by the rules of mathematics. This astonishment springs from the recognition that the universe doesn't have to behave this way. It is easy to imagine a universe in which conditions change unpredictably from instant to instant, or even a universe in which things pop in and out of existence.

Richard Feynman, a Nobel Prize winner for quantum electrodynamics, said, "Why nature is mathematical is a mystery...The fact that there are rules at all is a kind of miracle.

Ok how does a universe that obey rules prove that your religion is correct. Or do you reject religion also? So I know how to attack your points.

Shadon007:
Much of life may seem uncertain, but look at what we can count on day after day: gravity remains consistent, a hot cup of coffee left on a counter will get cold, the earth rotates in the same 24 hours, and the speed of light doesn't change -- on earth or in galaxies far from us.

Did God design the laws of the universe - Photo of mathematical equations on a blackboard to illustrate the mathematical consistency of natural laws.How is it that we can identify laws of nature that never change? Why is the universe so orderly, so reliable?

"The greatest scientists have been struck by how strange this is. There is no logical necessity for a universe that obeys rules, let alone one that abides by the rules of mathematics. This astonishment springs from the recognition that the universe doesn't have to behave this way. It is easy to imagine a universe in which conditions change unpredictably from instant to instant, or even a universe in which things pop in and out of existence.

Richard Feynman, a Nobel Prize winner for quantum electrodynamics, said, "Why nature is mathematical is a mystery...The fact that there are rules at all is a kind of miracle.

By miracle. I'm sure he meant this figuratively not literally.

larride:


It seems you just want to keep going in circles. I sincerely don’t have that time.

There are thousands of records that support the facts that Jesus truly existed and at a certain time was crucified on the cross.

Ok does that also mean he had virgin birth? Does that also prove he performed outlandish miracles and does that prove that he rose from the dead? Does that prove that he raised Lazarus from the dead?

Well as a Nigerian doing a fully funded PhD abroad after your masters in Nigeria might not be entirely a waste especially in a field like Computer Sceince or even Engineering because after the PhD you can always get jobs in tech firms abroad. Which is an Avenue to move to greener pastures. Also masters is not a waste because it boost ones point in getting Canada Permanent residency. If you are sure you can get this and have no interest in ending up in the academia, then acquiring a PhD becomes a personal thing. I think there some international jobs like OPEC, UN, World Bank and so on that also have a masters in their requirement. If you also have passion to work there.

You might also argue that Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg have no Bachelors degree let alone PhD or masters but since you haven't gotten to their heights yet I see no reason why you shouldn't consider getting them as a stepping stone. In fact, the most successful person(in terms of money) from my class today dropped out in year three and has currently founded his company that is doing well. So I understand this line of thought.

Thanks Nuissancepolice for the justice you have done to this discussion. What lots of the proponents of religion here fail to realize is that most of what they know about what they identify as God immediately crashes when they take out religion. It becomes an hypothesis that has no logical basis. Being able to isolate the concept of God and religion also helped me in bidding farewell to religion.

All what you know about your religion was passed to you by someone that offered you no proof. The only thing they did was to also present you with a holy book that was definitely written by humans that contains knowledge that can't stand in the face of logical reasoning and modern discoveries. You don't question them but you can question the believes of other religions that have exactly the same model as yours with no logical background but just different contents. You see the irony?

You find it difficult to accept "I don't know yet" as a satisfactory answer but prefer to insert non-testable answers like "God created the universe, humans and the likes" in so so manner because someone wrote a book that says so in no-testable manner. Rather than go with scientific knowledge whose process was also used to develop the medicinal knowledge we have today that is far better than whatever your religion has to offer in terms of healing. The same process that was studied to bring about all the technology you see around you including the phones or laptop you are currently typing with.

One doesn't even need to understand the concepts of big bang, evolution, relativity and the likes before you understand that most of the religions you see around you can't stand in a modern society. Religions that encourages and outlines how to carry out slavery, religions that justifies killings of people that don't accept your religion and you fail to see that those that bring this up were not inspired by a divine being like they falsely claim rather motivated by their selfish interests. A religion that claims its early founders performed miracles publicly but are always quick to evade being asked to perform similar miracles today in public glare. How don't you see that these things are made up? Just how?

NuissancePolice:


I have never seen any single miracle by anyone but I have heard claims of people receiving miracles. A few of my friends claimed to have had supernatural encounters but I later discovered they were lies. Infact the most recent one was recently medically treated of the hallucinations he earlier had purported to be visions. I honestly wish I could find any iota of sense in all you wrotr. All I see is one who is so entangled in indoctrination.

Although you did not touch any of the 10 issues that was the original aim of the thread, I appreciate your engagement with the thread.

Its indoctrination bro. It might be tough for him to engage in a honest intellectual discussion due to indoctrination but hopefully, someone with an open mind will be able to learn from these arguments.

larride:


I really do not need to read past that first line. Every other thing that followed is a poor attempt at criticizing what you really don’t understand.

You really do not understand what Christianity is.

Christianity is a way of life. The disciples were first called Christians in Antoich because the people there noticed that their behavior is like Christ. Christian means Christ - like. The Bible recorded that Jesus Christ went about doing good. The greatest commandment he gave to us is - LOVE.

I cannot speak for other Christians as Christianity is meant to be a personal relationship with God through Jesus. I will not be the judge of what I do not know but the Bible says “Search all doctrine and hold on to that which is true”.

Cheers.

I am sorry you haven't achieved anything other than arguing in circles.

larride:


So you agree with me that your brother doesn’t exist because I never saw him? Right?

No offense taken whatsoever.

Yes I agree. I don't have a late brother so no offense at all I understand it is for the purpose of this discussion.

In similar vain you agree that Jesus doesn't exist right cos you have never seen him?

Route99:

. It's complicated.

Lool ok oo

larride:


Good that we are getting somewhere.

1. You have seen a lot of Pastors that have done miracles like Bishop Oyedapo, Pastor Adeboye, Oyakilome and the likes but you will still question their miracles, therefore this miracles have to happen directly to you before you can believe it. I have seen my Pastor heal a lame man on wheelchair, I have seen a Pastor pray for a woman that has no womb for the fruit of the womb and God sustain a pregnancy in her.

2. What’s to say you will not start to question my own personal experiences once I share them?

There are some called into the ministry of deliverance, some into the ministry of intercession and some into the ministry of teaching. We have function with the capabilities that the Holy Spirit has given us. Have I prayed for the sick and he was healed? Yes. Have I turned water to wine? No. In my 200l, we were preparing for drama night and our rehearsal were vigil every Wednesday and I have Statistics class every Thursday morning by 7am. Have I prayed for the class to be rescheduled to another day and the class was rescheduled to Sat? YES. Have I tread on serpent? No. Have I slept on scorpion unknowingly while in the Uni and I was not bitten? YES. There are lots of personal experience that I have serving this God.

3. If you want to probe the Bible, then you will need to go on a personal journey of self discovery. If you want to test the validity of God, put your trust in him and ask him to show himself to you. You will get your answer.

Please can your Pastor heal Ayefele so that we can know it is not staged. Because that is what they all are. I don't care the Pastors you call. I know they'll tell you it is God that is doing it. But that is just the simple modus operandi of scammers, charlatans and snake oil sales man. It works for them and people like you end up believing and inviting people and they make more money from offering and tithes and buy private jets. They do charities too to have a greater stronghold on the weak masses so that even if someone's eyes open the followers would descend on him. How is this business model lost on smart people. Just how?

Please don't let me choke with laughter. You have healed the sick before? Wow. Why don't you go to the hospitals and save people their monies by healing them all. Oh you will say it's not you but its God that does the healing right . Or have you joined the crew of snake oils sales men?

Route99:

I never stated a particular religion.

Ok I'm sorry. Are u an atheist? I want to know what side of the divide you fall on.

Route99:

I never stated a particular religion.

Ok are you an atheist? I want to know what side of the divide you fall in. I'm sorry.

NuissancePolice:


The bolded is a classical example of the fallacy of appealing to ignorance. It is like asking you to prove to me that I don't have 1 billion dollars.

The onus is on you to provide the proof.

Bro honestly. I don't know why these people don't want to do engaging arguments.

Route99:
Why use scientific knowledge to disprove the existence of God portrayed by various religions? Science is based on material proof and religion is based on faith. You may not accept the idea of 'God' or religion, but asking for material proof deprives religion of it's core concept (faith).

I think the argument of God's non-existence is hinged on the premise that material science is all there is to life. Some of your fellow humans believe otherwise.

Why don't you belive in Islamic teachings? Or Hindu?

pes2019:
Since you use scripture first:

The first scripture here, man has been told what will come through acquiring several knowledge. It makes them questions God.

Question : At what point did you become atheist, we're u born atheist?

God is all knowing God, he knew that this will come up at some point in time so he said in Romans 1:22 & 25
KJV:Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
25: KJV:Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. . Base on research and proclaimed reality, why couldn't a developed country as China foretell the coming of coronavirus bro.
Plz be foolish so to be wise my brother.

1 Corinthians 1:20-21
KJV:Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21
KJV:For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.


It already foolishness, having the wisdom of this world, because it makes us question the existence of God, it took years for man to conclusively tell the rotation of earth round the sun, but the big question is can man ever stop researching, it's capital no, because in God's creation you can never know it all, man die trying to find it out, the documented knowledge is passed on to his group to continue but yet the earth remains, and inconclusive the research becomes.
Before we hear about 9 planets but now it's more than that, isn't that enough to acknowledge the existence of God.

Note: With the knowledge of all scientist put together, they can't fathom the existence of earth nor God, bro there are so many abandon research work, pls take up one. Bible call them

Psalm 14:1
NIV:The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.”

1 corinthians 3:19-20

NIV:For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: “He catches the wise in their craftiness”;

NIV:and again, “The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile.”



Jeremiah 9:23-24
KJV:Thus saith the Lord, Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches:

24
KJV:But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the Lord which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the Lord.[b]2 thimoty 3:7 KJV:Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Ok fine you have succeeded in quoting the bible all through and demonstrates that you are arguing in circles.

The first question is why should I treat the bible better than a fictional book?

larride:


Your late brother never came to my house before, so he doesn’t exist. Beautiful.



I said Jesus is REAL and he Exist. I’m not doing his existence. It is both of you that are denying his existence. So bring proof that he doesn’t exist.

At least you say that my late brother never came to your house therefore he doesn't exist. By extension, it follows that Jesus doesn't exist since he never came to your house. I suppose we can proceed from here? Oh and by the way. This is not supposed to appear like a fight but an intellectual discuss so forgive all my attempt at making it appear like one. I admonish you not to make it appear like one also.