₦airaland Forum

@Depilot
How credible is this your source? Who is this fyne face? _{anyway, pardon my ignorance}

Sidekick:
Now that he's in safe lands (according to Kobojunkie) can he please tell us who offered him $15million

I've been curious. Is it truely that bunkerer and looter Odili? (just a question o)

Kobojunkie:
Kai!!! ROFLMAO!!! That is a seriously naïve way to look at this. Come on, be real here. Do you really fear the Nigerian government when you are outside the shores of that country?

Every Nigerian abroad knows the Nigerian government cannot touch you once you are out of the country. Why do you think the politicians and everyone else in office runs abroad when they have gotten enough  of the money to pocket?

Abegi ! say better thing o jare!! Roflmao!!!

Kobojunkie, we are talking about ASSASSINATION (killing, criminal style) not ARREST or prosecution!!!

Even a small drug baron here can arrange that for any stupid, double-dealing, courier who runs to another country. How much more a whole state to an exposed target.

Kobojunkie:
I am not even here to present him as a worthy figure; for all I know, he could be guilty of the charge, who knows? But regardless of what you think of his intelligence, it is no reason to come up with what you have above as reason to demand he serve for a unproven allegations. Heck, I would say so far unsubstantiated because we still here allegations but not much offered up to show this man should come back, risking his life, for this.

I did not say the enboldened. I wrote

I really don't care whether Ribadu comes home or not or sentenced (okay I care about that one) or not. What I hate is people presenting him as worthy representation of Nigerian intelligence and as such worthy to be pushed for leadership position.

[quote author=Tudór link=topic=285423.msg4089128#msg4089128 date=1245950397]Define 'LEGEND' you morons. . .[/quote]You just confirmed what I said.

Have a nice life

He says he ran away because they want to kill him YET HE MAKES PUBLIC APPEARANCES WHERE HE IS. CAN THE PRESIDENT NOT AFFORD TO SET UP MACHINERY TO KILL HIM WHERE HE IS?

They say that the foreign authorities are hiring and honouring him and giving him jobs makes him very credible. THE NORTHERNERS SAID OBJ WAS A BETTER CANDIDATES FOR THEM IN 1999 WHEN YORUBA NATION SAID HE COULD NOT BE TRUSTED. Where are those northern leaders today. MUST WE CONTINUE TO ALWAYS TRUST THE JUDGEMENT OF THE WESTERN WORLD ALL MATTERS DOMESTIC TO NIGERIA?

I really don't care whether Ribadu comes home or not or sentenced (okay I care about that one) or not. What I hate is people presenting him as worthy representation of Nigerian intelligence and as such worthy to be pushed for leadership position.

That guy, Ribadu, (to me) has shown himself to be one of the most dump personalities that the Nigerian system has thrown up.

Imagine this purportedly intelligent guy says that his travail is the handwork of Odili: That Odili boasted that openly how the guy is to be ruined. Abi. That the man, Odili, stated the progression of events in the said plot. The ODE boy kept cool and refused to draw up a survival plan.

First in the series of, alleged, planned actions was taken (He was tactically removed by being sent to a school). MUGUN boy dey there they claim czar. Meanwhile the end story was (allegedly) already known him and all around him (and the Nigerian public). Yet this tactless guy (with the so called intelligent lawyers and friends around him) refused to take actions that would pre-empt his enemies, land him safely outside the police force and put his enemies on the defensive.

POOR POWERS-THAT-BE-MADE GUY probably wanted to die in police uniform. Now he's running around telling old story (they want to kill me). I wonder if the guy would have succeeded practicing law without the opportunity of the police.

IMAGINE WHAT HIS SITUATION WOULD HAVE BEEN IF THE GUY HAD RESIGNED FROM THE POLICE B4 BEEN DEMOTED (okay they regularised his rank). He would not have committed any crime buy taking the police force/PSC to court for their action without breaking any rules. He would not have gone ahead to disobey constituted authority. HE WOULD HAVE MORE SENSIBLE SYMPATHY THAN HE PRESENTLY DOES.

AND SOME PEOPLE WILL SAY HE IS PRESIDENT MATERIAL. SOMEONE WHO COULD NOT PLAN HIS OWN SURVIVAL IN POWER PLAY.

As it now Ribadu will continue to be a "vagabond" (okay, refugee) some years to come.

I however wish him well. I don't want him in jail nor dead. But he should just stop this making the nations image worse. H e should keep quiet and work on his future, at least income is already guaranteed for him.

[quote author=Tudór link=topic=285423.msg4087226#msg4087226 date=1245935884]Wrong! All i'm saying is a human being is unworthy of the 'living legend' badge whe he's done absolutely NOTHING to distinguish himself and is also a THIEF. Simple.[/quote]It is foolhardy to join issues with you. You are obviously TOO BLIND to ever see reason if it were a mountain right in front of you.

Go check out the meaning of the word LEGEND, then you will probaly see how irrational you are showing yourself to be.

You don't need to be on his side, all he needs is for some people to be on his side. People who believe he has achieve something.

@poster
You can go ask a doctor to put you in coma. Or go do something drastic that will make you faint (go into coma). you can hit your head on the wall, fast continously for like 3 days then go climb a treadmill and make it go fast (this will surely make you pass out). I pray you come out of the coma.

WHY WORRY ABOUT AN EXPERIENCE THAT IS INEVITABLE WHEN, I'm sure, YOU ARE YET TO FULLY EXPERIENCE ALL THAT IT FEELS TO LIVE?

KunleOshob:
Well i must report myself again to this forum, i was in "church" again yesterday i attended the church petres_007 invited me to last week and i must report again it was really a breath of fresh air. Infact for the first time in a very long time i was actually looking forward to going to church and in attending it i was truely blessed. I was able to learn a lot unlike before when i found a lot of loop holes in the shallow dogmatic sermons which now pervade most of our churches. One of the reasons i wanted to stop going to church was becos i wasn't learning or gaining any thing but with crown bible church it is really different, here the truth is not only being spoken it is being practised. With that i might just rescind on the decision i made at the beginning of this thread and become a regular member of this church. Once again thanx to petres_007 for extending me the invitation.

THIS THREAD CAN NOWW BE CLOSED. Kunle don't come back complaining. I'm sure you will still find "unchristian" behaviour among members in this new church soon or later.

_{THERE WILL BE NOTHING AS A PERFECT CHURCH UNTIL THE COMING OF THE LORD}

Imagine, for a moment, that I'm a non-Nigerian regular visitor to this forum my opinion would be:

The ZEAL and PASSION with which a number of "forumites" (of different religious persuation) pursue anti-Adeboye discussion means there is something peculiar about the man. He must be great: either as a (nigerian) "superstar pastor" that a lot of people love to hate, or a controversial religious fellow who a "few" love to justify/defend.

Then I decide to do a little research. I check wikipedia for Adejare Enoch Adeboye and find the link

"* Redeemed Christian Church of God
This man, Enoch Adejare Adeboye who was then a lecturer of Mathematics at the University of Lagos soon became involved in the church. , "

So I click the link, and I see the story of a church (which I have heard a lot of), RCCG that started to experience explosive growth after this former university lecturer (a Dr. in Mathematics) took over as leader.

Then I ask more questions (objective) about the church and find out:

THE CHURCH HAS A UNIVERSITY THAT IS ONE OF THE MOST EXPENSIVE IN NIGERIA.

SHE HAS SECONDARY SCHOOL THAT IS EQUALLY EXPENSIVE.

SHE HAS AN ACTIVE PRISON MINISTRY THAT PREACHES TO AND PROVIDE FOR PRISON INMATES.

SHE HAS A HUGE REHABILITATION CENTRE/HOME SOMEWHERE FOR EX PROSTITUTES, JUNKIES & EX-CONVICTS

HER VARIOUS PARISHES ('WHICH HAVE A LOT OF "NOT PERFECT" EXCESSES') RUN ONE HUMANITARIAN PROGRAMME OR ANOTHER INCLUDING ORPHANAGES HERE & THERE (and most of these are non discriminatory in any manner).

SHE ALSO RUNS SKILL ACQUISITION CENTRES.

SHE, & HER PARISHES, HAVE PROGRAMMES THAT FEED THE POOR.

SCHOLARSHIPS HAVE BEEN AWARDED HERE & THERE

HOSPITAL BILLS FOR VERY EXPENSIVE TREATMENTS HAVE BEEN SETTLED FOR EVEN NON MEMBERS.

HER DOCTRINE ALMOST EXCESSIVELY INSIST ON TITHING AND "OFFERINGS".

THERE ARE ALSO A LOT POOR AND INDIGENT MEMBERS IN HER FOLD (especially in Africa).

SHE (RCCG) IS A HUGE CHURCH WITH LEGENDARY GROWTH RATE ALL OVER THE GLOBE.

ETC, ETC, ETC,

And there is no way you the man Dr. ENOCH ADEJARE ADEBOYE from all these acheivements. And among the things I find is the fact that RCCG was one bungalow low population church when the man took over. That, to me, means that the man is a great leader and empire builder (assuming he/we arrogate it all to human capacity).

So now an opportunity came when some local media houses advertised the name of this man among those they want to honor as living legends. How on earth will any of his followers and beneficiaries not vote for him above anyone else (and by the result of that poll, he probably has more people having positive opinions of him than anybody else in that list).

Then you ask is it the fault of the followers that their leader was nominated by the orgainsers? Is the man fault that his followers, and admirers voted for him (they were in the majority)? NAY!

Why is there this much unbridled hatred by such number of "forumites" here for someone who has done the little bit that he believes in to better the lot of himself and others. (Check every thread on Adeboye as subject. they quickly run into pages)

It is in fact the depth "baseless" indignation displayed towards the person of Pst (Dr.) E. A. ADEBOYE by some members of this forum who that usually will write posts passionately in favour of a better Nigeria nation that is saddening. These posters would easily pass for people who will work hard hard to make the nation "good" (its not good yet). But is with this level of intolerance and bitterness for anything that has to do with one man?

Imagine, for a moment, that I'm a non-Nigerian regular visitor to this forum my opinion would be:

The ZEAL and PASSION with which a number of "forumites" (of different religious persuation) pursue anti-Adeboye discussion means there is something peculiar about the man. He must be great: either as a (nigerian) "superstar pastor" that a lot of people love to hate, or a controversial religious fellow who a "few" love to justify/defend.

Then I decide to do a little research. I check wikipedia for Adejare Enoch Adeboye and find the link

"* Redeemed Christian Church of God
     This man, Enoch Adejare Adeboye who was then a lecturer of Mathematics at the University of Lagos soon became involved in the church. , "

So I click the link, and I see the story of a church (which I have heard a lot of), RCCG that started to experience explosive growth after this former university lecturer (a Dr. in Mathematics) took over as leader.

Then I ask more questions (objective) about the church and find out:

THE CHURCH HAS A UNIVERSITY THAT IS ONE OF THE MOST EXPENSIVE IN NIGERIA.

SHE HAS SECONDARY SCHOOL THAT IS EQUALLY EXPENSIVE.

SHE HAS AN ACTIVE PRISON MINISTRY THAT PREACHES TO AND PROVIDE FOR PRISON INMATES.

SHE HAS A HUGE REHABILITATION CENTRE/HOME SOMEWHERE FOR EX PROSTITUTES, JUNKIES & EX-CONVICTS

HER VARIOUS PARISHES ('WHICH HAVE A LOT OF "NOT PERFECT" EXCESSES') RUN ONE HUMANITARIAN PROGRAMME OR ANOTHER INCLUDING ORPHANAGES HERE & THERE (and most of these are non discriminatory in any manner).

SHE ALSO RUNS SKILL ACQUISITION CENTRES.

SHE, & HER PARISHES, HAVE PROGRAMMES THAT FEED THE POOR.

SCHOLARSHIPS HAVE BEEN AWARDED HERE & THERE

HOSPITAL BILLS FOR VERY EXPENSIVE TREATMENTS HAVE BEEN SETTLED FOR EVEN NON MEMBERS.

HER DOCTRINE ALMOST EXCESSIVELY INSIST ON TITHING AND "OFFERINGS".

THERE ARE ALSO A LOT POOR AND INDIGENT MEMBERS IN HER FOLD (especially in Africa).

SHE (RCCG) IS A HUGE CHURCH WITH LEGENDARY GROWTH RATE ALL OVER THE GLOBE.

ETC, ETC, ETC,

And there is no way you the man Dr. ENOCH ADEJARE ADEBOYE from all these acheivements. And among the things I find is the fact that RCCG was one bungalow low population church when the man took over. That, to me, means that the man is a great leader and empire builder (assuming he/we arrogate it all to human capacity).

So now an opportunity came when some local media houses advertised the name of this man among those they want to honor as living legends. How on earth will any of his followers and beneficiaries not vote for him above anyone else (and by the result of that poll, he probably has more people having positive opinions of him than anybody else in that list).

Then you ask is it the fault of the followers that their leader was nominated by the orgainsers? Is the man fault that his followers, and admirers voted for him (they were in the majority)? NAY!

Why is there this much unbridled hatred by such number of "forumites" here for someone who has done the little bit that he believes in to better the lot of himself and others. (Check every thread on Adeboye as subject. they quickly run into pages)

It is in fact the depth "baseless" indignation displayed towards the person of Pst (Dr.) E. A. ADEBOYE by some members of this forum who that usually will write posts passionately in favour of a better Nigeria nation that is saddening. These posters would easily pass for people who will work hard hard to make the nation "good" (its not good yet). But is with this level of intolerance and bitterness for anything that has to do with one man?

Me think that the issue is being belabored.
If the govt wants to tax income from books written by Pastors and ministers why should that become a reason for the church to go to court? I may sound naive, but I thought govt taxes only the profit of a transaction/business and not the gross? If the answer is yes (which I know to be the case), then all the writter-Pastors/ministers need do is show the books on their publishing (or is it writing) ventures. If the writing is a non-profit venture the books will show it and there will be no need to go to court.

Same goes for tapes. If the tapes/cd/dvd are produced by individuals then taxing the profit should not be a reason to go to court by any Pastor. If, however, the church is the one producing them, then the leaders only need to point out to the authority (and convince it) how the venture becomes a "charity".

This whole thing is about the christians' conscience. A lot is wrong with "christian" practice (not christianity). Priorities seem to be misplaced.

Many ministers of the word are earning millions from their publications! Where is the example that is being laid for followers to follow?

Krayola:
Every religion has its nonsense. I can write you a very long post about the "evils" of Christianity, but that is pointless.

Evils of Christianity or of christians

Krayola:
Evil is a relative term. . . human sacrifice is wrong, but so is torture and forced conversion, slavery and the destruction of cultures and civilizations around the world, by christian authorities, in the name of the Christian God. . . the same people that brought us this Christianity that we embrace so eagerly.

Sincerely (or is it Objectively), are these part of christian doctrine or that of the their main symbol of reverence, Jesus? My answer is no. If you think I'm wrong (or biased) go read their scripture (the Bible) over again and see if there is a single place where he (Jesus), or any of the Apostles ever taught forced conversion and all such as you have mentioned. In the contrary I read of instruction to disciples to vacate any place where they are not welcomed.

Those who " brought us this Christianity that we embrace so eagerly" as you called them were more of businessmen than missionaries. There were really only very few christian missionaries (my opinion?).

I referred to practices that are part and parcel of a religious practice then and now.

Krayola:
Now my last post was me letting you know my opinion of you. YOu made several posts on this thread that suggested that the people who come here to share whatever knowledge they have, however misguided you might feel it is, have some kind of ulterior motive and are misleading people by trying to glamorize a tradition that you find appalling. But that says more about u and your biases than it says about the people that have been posting here.

Strictly your opinion though. However let me state that I did not at any time state that anyone came into this thread with a motive to mislead anybody (though there might indeed have been). I don't know where you (and Pastor) got that from.

When I wrote about the treachery in the PATH of religious/spritual researches/inquiries I did not have the limited resources avilable on this thread in mind (I in fact did not refer to it at all). That path/field is far beyond this thread and that you know.

Even at that I did not, in any of my post, discourage studying/investigating any religion. I will, in fact, not. I only stated the things inherent on the way. I don't know where you got your own deductions from

Krayola:
I have asked a lot of questions and I have received answers. . whether or not i agree with the answers is one thing, i do my own investigation, but i never suggest the people that spend their time sharing what they know are somehow trying to deceive me, or just peddling wrong info. . any religious person, that assumes to know peoples motives is a phony. There is a reason why Christ asks us not to judge, but that seems to be all that you are concerned with and no one here is going to put up with that.

I'm almost forced to say "ikan ni kaun" you and pastor.

Pastor AIO:
And on the topic of human sacrifice Jehovah accepts human sacrifice well well. Ask Huxley to acquaint you on the topic.

I won't bother . I have seen some of the fellow's post: he's too passionate about his atheism (and anti christianity), to be objective enough to point out the most obvious reasoning on the bible passages he quotes.

Krayola:
mowire. . . with all due respect you have contributed nothing to this discussion.

Very nice (ref: bold words)

Krayola:
Go Fukc yourself!!! .  no one here is impressed!!!

What contradiction. (Tells a lot about your character)
How "juvenile" you are is made very obvious, my student friend.

Krayola:
no one here is impressed!!

Yet again I say: Not all readers are contributing to this thread. Anyway I did not set out to impress anybody, rather I wanted answers to question are pertinent to the majority of Yorubas who do not agree with/understand/wants to know (what) the ifa/orisa religion

I thought that those who are adherents of that religion, who know all that it involves (and that obviously does not include you Krayola) will gladly answer those questions, that I asked, and any other question on areas that easily cast aspersions on the ifa/orisa religion convincingly.

Any reasonable Yoruba man (African, for that matter), would like to know why he should follow/practice the religion of our fore fathers. Most of these people that have been referred to in this thread as misled know far more about christianity/islam than they know about this religion of Yorubas/Africans; all that is well known (not what is written) are the evil practices involved in this religions that are being potrayed as the better choice for them than the ones they presently adhere to.

You, Krayola, obviously do not possibly understand why your parents prefer christianity to the Yoruba religions, or any other religion in the world (I hold nothing against your quest for religious knowledge).

Most of us know very well that the practice of human sacrifice is still part of the Yoruba oro festivals, and ifa priests have always been part of these festivals. They still are!

In the face of this, answering the questions I asked would have probably shown the light in the ifa/orisa religion. If there is any.

As for all these notion that this thread is about world religion: I think people should go and read tega's initial post.

People should be ready to answer questions so that everyone will know what our traditional religions have to offer. Then we will all know if the "westerners" who are now attracted to the religions have any real substance to pursue or they are just being misled by the same instinct that has led a large number of them into bestialty (an abomination in Yoruba land).

annyplenty:
It seems you like making references to some elders as the basis of your posts. who are the elders you always refer us to ask? can you please mention some names. besides that some people you refer us to are elders doesnt not mean they will be an authority on the topic of IFA that we are discussing. the age of methuselah might not have something to do with the wisdom of solomon. I will suggest that if you might want us to take your references so serious, decline from referring us to elders. instead make reference from the words of IFA directly or you quote an history of the religion you might know.

I thought you will understand that reference to elders in this kind of thread will mean those who had been practising ifa (or any other yoruba traditional religion) before you. Custodians of the tradition/culture.

annyplenty:
the age of methuselah might not have something to do with the wisdom of solomon.

I don't see how that will apply in this case. Except you want to start a revolution and reinvention of the religion. (An ifa protestant group will be interesting to look out for )

annyplenty:
I have answers to all your questions and even some more you have not asked but will like to know the motive behind yor inquisitions before taking you up.

Not all yet.

Pastor AIO:
(accusing fingers point at the likes of Awolowo although I don't know enough of his shenanigans to join in the accusations).

Off the mark again! Awolowo cannot be refered to as an elder in this matter. The man was a rosicrucian and christian not and was not known to be an ifa adherent (not even a religious researcher)

What I referred you to the "elders" for is the history of the likes of sango, ogun (a drunkard king turned god), even sonpanna. This were not gods anything (according to Yoruba history, untwisted).

@Pastor AIO,
The above is for you. (I think you should know that though)

What's really upsetting you? You entered the thread like someone who knows. I did not quote the Eji ogbe for you. You did like someone who knows ifa enough to take on questions. Besides my question was directed at you from the onset.

Here's my first post:

Mowire:
For the uniformed mind who might have been reading about all this ifa stuff, it is an interesting discovery that the religion is so "advanced".

But to all you ifa students, initiates, and prosilytes (ope the spelling is right), please let us know the following:
1) If obatala is the creator, then who is Olodumare?

2) Who and what is Ela?

3) Who is Oluorogbo?

4) How do these two above relate/compare to Jesus

5) If worship of sango , for example, truely predates christianity and islam, why then does the oriki of sango contain verses that indicate that he was versed in Islamic prayers and the quran? Remember that most of the Yoruba orisas are of similar age.

6) What is the place of human sacrifice, still being practised in Yoruba land for their oros (deities), in your ifa morality?

No one should really be in the dark to the fact that all the authors (so called authorities) of the ifa literatures of today are most of the very very recent age who are fighting a purely cultural battle and not necessarily a battle for the TRUTH.

I am looking forward to all the possible verbal attacks. _{I AM A NIGERIAN and YORUBA}

You may go through all your responses and mine fro that point on.
Much of your outburst even indicated that you missed the point of the posts.

For example: "Where in my post did I say that the study of ifa will lead to atheism?" Please go through my posts and quote it. ( Name calling was so convenient for you inpite of your wrong interpretations).

You see, my friend, I was not wrong when I said "the path is trechearous, ladden with false judgements, illusions, confusions and the end result can be frustration which has led many to foolishly (no apology for the word) deny that there is a Creator (GOD)." You are probably my best proof.

I think your judgement is questionable and your ability to correctly reason out what you read undependable. Your conclusions can't but be wrong.

Its going to be a long weekend in Nigeria. Have a nice weekend.

Meanwhile those questions I asked are still waiting for answers!

NoFearNYC:
obviously the poster is just joking

Agreed

@Pastor AIO,
Quite a wonderful display of rage here! (strong enough to physically ruffle me).
But I wil try not to tow same line as you. And in the same "grand standing" tone, I dare say such outburst as you have done, and feeling behind it, is responsible for harm that some of those you now call (Yoruba) orisa caused in their time. _{GO ASK THE ELDERS THE TRUTH, THE HISTORY.}

Somehow, I feel that you are totally incapable of reasoning out properly on what you read. Well that's what see from the way you have interpreted some of my comments.

Have a great evening.

Ladies and gentlemen the purportedly cloned number is 07037723390. This is an off-the-shelve number. Nothing special about it (it will not possibly have any security tag).

All you need do to stop the gov from being able to to use his phone while you use the same number is be close enough to him to know 3 phone numbers that frequently calls, note how much credit he loaded into that phone most recently (that should be easy to guess, =N=1500.00!). Armed with these information, get yourself a new mtn sim card, go to the mtn website and do an online welcome back application claiming that you lost your line (07037723390, the govs' line!) and in about 24 hours ignorant govs' number on his sim card is blocked and the same number is activated on your new sim card (48hrs max.). Very easy !!!!

Even easier is if you're in his employment and you could lay your hand on the sim certificate of the line, just call customer care, claim that your phone been stolen or just lost, give them the puk number and the other info above and Mr govs' line is blocked quickly and the number 07037723390 is activated on your new sim in about 48 hrs.

The above can only become impossible if the "cloned" line a post paid one.

You see there is no need abusing yourselves over this subject.

If the poster is serious, here's my piece of advice:

There are 3 types of witchcraft in todays world: (i) The evil disease type which african spread to their offsprings so that they can harm someone close to them all destroy the person they give it to. This is the type people get from vegetable soups and sweets: When you eat that poison you start to have dreams of being in places where human flesh are eaten, and all that sort, and flying. (ii) authentic African (okay, Yoruba) type: Here someone who is already an initiate will take you physically to the group and you get initiated. However since, @poster you said you want witchcraft power to fight people (Africans) who you allege are evil, you may be walking into a big trap as the people you are going to meet work in a horrifying network style, and you may be carrying a mark from your "enemies"! You may come out worse for it! (iii) The oyinbo man type of which the wicca group is one (and about the biggest) of them. Here to be effective you are essentially trained to become an occultist at the end of the day (forget all the literature gist on the this type). But by the time you have come into full knowledge as a witch you will probably not fin it necessary to wage war on members of your family, they will most likely not be able to influence you. You will even have possessed enough ability to do considerable harm to an innocent person yourself!! However, because of your seeming haste to have powers you will probably have RAN MAD (I MEAN MAD AS OS CRAZY, INSANE) irreparably trying invocations you do not know how to handle, before you could become a full fledge witch. Better still you could be dead earlier on, killed by some infernal power (demon) that you had invoked in ignorance, trying to memorize some invocation.

So if you still want to become a witch go try the oyinbo type (there's a lot book/reading work involved) and BEST OF LUCK

_{IF WERE U I WON'T TRY IT}

@Pastor,
Funny to see that you were upset with the questions. But someone just made an attempt to answer the same questions.

If you felt any subconscious chill (scare) inside you as a result of the manner of my posts so far thatts too bad. To scare anyone was (and is) not an intent. Rather asking one like you, who seem to posit to know much as to try and elighten others, questions as have done so far (and I will still ask more so long as this thread runs) should just ordinarily have "nugged" you a little to go a step further in your "research/study". As you can see, those questions have answers. You see even the best of teachers even deploy similar technique so that their students are able to make well informed decisions at the end of the day: he will be convinced why he should continue on the same path as his master or take a different path.

And I did not say that the study of ifa can lead to anyone becoming an atheist.

I am no adept but I know I have read some of the materials you are now reading and come into some of the knowledge you now have much earlier than you. Your answers could have refreshed my memory and definitely given more information to those who are interested in following your thinking/thought.

@annyplenty,
4) How do these two above relate/compare to Jesus.

I dont understand your question.

The above is your response to one of the questions asked. Are you aware that the is circle (I don't want to call them council) of Yoruba, cultural, thinkers who have commisioned a group to invetigate the correlation between the story of Jesus and Ela/Oluorogbo phenomenon; to see if the traditions refer to the same person or equivalent personalities. According to some respected Yoruba literature the Oluorogbo/Ela story is one yet to be fully understood (the traditions do not seem to agree on the story of Ela being the same as Orunmila)

As for the verse of sango oriki that indicated that he practiced part of the Islamic "ways", I cannot begin to dig that up for you. Let any of the well versed adherents recite the oriki to you and you will here it said (or an adept ifa priest can even recite the sango orikis for you). There is even a point where he is refered to as as of having Nupe linkage.

@Krayola,
Yes I am religious. As to what religion, I'm sorry I will rather keep that out for now on this thread. I was born of a methodist mother to a non particularly religious traditional blacksmith whose own father was a well revered ifa priest in his area of influence of up to 4/5 communities in his own time. I was never involved in the worship of ifa because my father did not put anyone of his children in the know of what he knew and did not practice (he in fact forbade anyone of us from ever being initiated into such, even as adults), but as will be expected of any traditional blacksmith in Yoruba land, he did his own bit of ogun worship. And I have travelled the path of "truth seeking" in my own little way to draw my own conclusions.

Impressive display of comprehension of what has been taught and read by you student contributors to this thread (particularly this page). But the search for truth, which some of you are subconsciously/innately doing, goes beyond these studies of world religion; the path is trechearous, ladden with false judgements, illusions, confusions and the end result can be frustration which has led many to foolishly (no apology for the word) deny that there is a Creator (GOD). A lot travellers end up introducing ideologies and interpretations that were never  part of the original belief/practice and thereby delude themselves.

For the ifa adherents in the house, please educate me:

1) What is the position of ifa on the hereafter?

2) What does ifa say about the here after for evil doers (thieves & robbers, murderers, etc, etc)?

3) Does ifa consider "sexual promiscuity" as evil?

4) Who came first between Orunmila and the other orisas of the Yoruba race?,

@ PastorAIO,
Tell me, pls, of the Ela that begat the Oluorogbo (or may be the other way round)

The I ask: How does ifa react to the human sacrifice to oros that is practiced in Yoruba land? After all there is no oro festival that is held in Yoruba land that does not involve ifa and ifa priests.

Thanks, again, midas02.

@komekn,
nice to have your input. In fact my interest was inspired by that company plus a closer contact with the American vans.
I will get in touch when the time comes. I even learnt that the ford parts are not really that difficult to come by.

@sultaan,
I forgot to ask you: this your baby here, is it SWB or LWB Exteded? Cos if it's SWB it may not be able to take the 4th row of seats and still leave ample leg room that is one of the advantages over the toyota hiace version we have here in Nigeria.
And on a lighter note, @sultaan, what exactly are you waiting for; are you thinking that the price is gonna start rising?
If you are going to sell that van better let's have your price or some of us are going to get it straight from the states!

Hi @tkb417. Can see you are online. How are you? won't be here too long now: my gen is about to exhaust the petrol in it.

Is it because Nigerian are (rightly or wrongly) looking forward to the downfall of the next man that the majority of commentators to this post so far have wholly accepted the report in the post and are jumping into judgement?

We should really wait and see if there truly is a presidential enquiry as claimed in the post, at least if the story is true that should become public soon.

The documents posted cannot possibly be authentic: that 3rd document would always carry hologram/watermark images which neither photocopiers nor scanners will eliminate completely, ditto for the other two. Our government docs/lh are no longer this plain ( the 1st does not even have a logo).

Common people, gullibility/foolishness should have limits around here!

Pastor,

Can't give much of response now. Burnt enough gas running gen here.

However, when you start to study all of the story you should not be suprised to see a lot of manipulations geared towards making things acceptable.

the Oluorogbo in question, for example, is not the Moremi's son version. Really there are different versions to all the Yoruba orisas origin.

Tomorrow may be.

@sultaan,
The 2002 3500 I found here in the market is going for 2.2m naira and has 15 passenger seat capacity (i.e 4 rows of seat), no room for load though.

Ordinarily any buyer wants to look at the option between that and an "equivalent" ford which is going for 1.4/1.5m naira.

My question.

How many seats do you have in this? How much do you have in mind?

For the uniformed mind who might have been reading about all this ifa stuff, it is an interesting discovery that the religion is so "advanced".

But to all you ifa students, initiates, and prosilytes (ope the spelling is right), please let us know the following:
1) If obatala is the creator, then who is Olodumare?

2) Who and what is Ela?

3) Who is Oluorogbo?

4) How do these two above relate/compare to Jesus

5) If worship of sango , for example, truely predates christianity and islam, why then does the oriki of sango contain verses that indicate that he was versed in Islamic prayers and the quran? Remember that most of the Yoruba orisas are of similar age.

6) What is the place of human sacrifice, still being practised in Yoruba land for their oros (deities), in your ifa morality?

No one should really be in the dark to the fact that all the authors (so called authorities) of the ifa literatures of today are most of the very very recent age who are fighting a purely cultural battle and not necessarily a battle for the TRUTH.

I am looking forward to all the possible verbal attacks. _{I AM A NIGERIAN and YORUBA}

@Poster!
Are you a paid agent or just a misguided, ill informed too-lazy-to-think person?
How did El-Rufai become so reputable in your eyes to be capable of been a good president? You probably never heard of NITEL and Pentascope, AP and Okocha: those were controversial and fraudulent transactions (privatisation) handled by El-Rufai.

How did that guy even made his money? He had been a civil servant/public officer all his life (talk about not being corrupt).

For those who may be blind: This El-Rufai/Ribadu for president was probably an OBJ/El-Rufai/Ribadu ultimate agenda (believing Yar' Adua will not make a 2nd term & remain a loyal OBJ boy).

Am I speculating? Okay. Check the course the guy decided to enrol for immediately he left ministerial office!

In my opinion anyone proposing a president who have no record of effective private/corporate acheivement in the next 20 years does not have good idea of what Nigeria really needs. We should keep all these set of people whose only working experience is the corrupted Nigerian public sector out the presidency/governoship of this nation. They have done enough harm already.

Again midas02, you've done well on this. Thank you very much.
Next task is to determine the availability of American van parts and good mechanic in Lagos. I think I will be at Ladipo for that.

@sultaan,
I think putting even 4 passengers on the seats will bad enough business idea in today's long distance transport biz in Nigeria. 5 sitting is not worth thinking about, except you're running intra city.

@tkb417, I will check out your e-mail shortly.

Thanks midas02,
Answers are:

1) 2005/2006 model, 15 pax
2) 3.3m as at last check (tokunbo), 2.4/2.6m (off lease Nigerian used)
3) Chevy 3500 costs 2.2/2.5m (2002 model)
4) Non
5) Correct.
6) Executive (4 seater on last seat for the chevy/ford)

I'm looking forward to your assessment.

QUITE A REPULSIVE THREAD (POST)!
THE MOST REPULSIVE I HAVE SEEN IN MY FEW DAYS ON NL.

THERE ARE SO  MANY EMPTY HEADS HERE SEEKING ATTENTION

exactly my point. coercion not consent