₦airaland Forum

Joagbaje:
As much as i don’t agree with muttleylaff post . But he didn’t do wrong . It’s allowed to quote from a post the area of your interest or concern . He doesn’t have to quote entire post just as you are not under obligation to quote entire chapter of the Bible but the verse or the line of your interest

Thank you brother, sir.
That was very kind of you.
For the record, what we agree on, is a lot more, than what we might disagree on, in posts.

MizMyColi:
Hi Muttleylaff,

I think I'll just let these rest.

It would seem you are privy to some knowledge I am unable to thoroughly decipher from your posts.

Of course, I understand your post at face value
You say there were two trees in the garden...
But the bible does not give that impression
So, if I pondered more on it, then I am setting myself up for inevitable confusion.

Perhaps, speaking in clearer terms and maybe referring to an account of creation you get this knowledge from might help

The LORD God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground
--trees that were pleasing to the eye
and good for food.
In the middle of the garden were,
the tree of life
and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil
- Genesis 2:9

Dont be too hard on yourself,
we all, including myself, have knowledge gaps

Sarassin:
I missed your later edit

You're making it sound like it is an elaborate edit
The pressure of time made me mistype a carefully thought out remark
My mind conveyed "I was talking of those body jerking movement moments, even after death"
but my finger typed "I wasn't talking of those body jerking movement moments, even after death"

Correcting wasn't to was was the edit

Sarassin:
I think this is a very weak “get-out” clause.

“get-out” clause indeed
You know me better than throwing an underhand ball
You almost made me bring up the look-at-you Idi Amin laughing gif with this your laughable “get-out” clause line

Sarassin:
According to the Genesis monologue of creation God made man in the likeness of God,
that statement in itself tells us everything we need to know.

Then God said,
"Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness .
They will rule the fish of the sea, the birds of the sky, the livestock, all the earth,
and the creatures that crawl on the earth.
- Genesis 1:26

Man was created in the image of the Godhood,
so Sarassin, in effect, Man is a visible representation of the impression of the Godhood
The likeness is continuum. Why is it continuum?
It is continuum because Man, out of the box, was not made perfect, like God is
Man, was created and set on a journey to perfection

Man, is an innovation of the Godhood
Genesis 1:26, as regards to intent, tells everything, we need to know

Sarassin:
In Gen 1:31, you have validation that God looked at all his creation and declared it Good.
There is no room for manoeuvre here, we have Man in the likeness of God, declared as Good

God looked at everything
Looked at all His creation and saw that the stage is set
so therefore declared, very good.
We're good to go, we're ready for action
Let the action begin!
Let's see man faithfully reflect or give a true picture of the Godhood

Sarassin:
You wrote about Man’s Fall from Grace and the disorder that followed.
I do not quite see it that way,

Trust me, if you manage to locate, a good vantage point, you quite easily could see it that way

Sarassin:
If we understand the “Tree of Life” as the original writers intended, then this soon becomes clear.
The “Tree of Life” is the transposition of the properties of celestial planetary attributes to humankind

Sure,
but to be worthy eating off it, one will first, have to pass the test

Sarassin:
If we say that Eve metaphorically speaking ate of the Apple

For the record and benefit of others, it wasnt an apple,
but never mind that, as I know what you mean

Sarassin:
and that she imbibed knowledge and that her actions precipitated God to cast both his prime creations out of his Grace,
we are then positing that God intended that his creation exist in a state of perpetual ignorance, akin to that of animals,
in my view that is an intolerable position given that we are told that God man made in his own image
and gave man dominion over all other forms of his creation.

Man's knowledge can go beyond his experience
The acquistion of knowledge doesnt all have to be experiential
so the price of knowledge and/or experience didnt necessarily have to cost Man anything
People are known to learn from others experience

Sarassin:
Clearly, it was always intended that man by his primacy above all else bar God,
would have knowledge and awareness of his own spirituality.

That's why an alternative tree, equally interesting, was present, alongside, in the garden's centre

MizMyColi:
Hello dear,

Please pardon my barging in.
Your discussions with muttleylaff are a pleasure to read.

Considering all you wrote up there,
could you please address the question of why God put that tree and made them aware of it.
If He knew they would eat it, and become "lesser" why put it there in the first place.

I'm not sure I've seen you address this before,
but I'll really love for you to because I wish to gain fresh perspective

I am sure LoJ and Sarassin dont mind you barging in an open plan thread
MizMyColi, about the why.
One word?
Either choice of word, from the next immediate two words below
Forethought or foresight

Sarassin:
Hello MizMyColi, I am sure muttleylaff will not mind…

The question you asked is a conundrum wrapped within an enigma and an age-old one at that.
But it is in itself diversionary, in other words it is the wrong question.
We say God said “let there be light…” and God said “let the waters be separated..”
and that these things happened as God intoned
but the exilic priests who compiled the Genesis accounts at the time of Ezra
also realised that the allegorical models of the “Tree of Life” were in fact a blueprint of creation.

Therefore, it is not difficult to work out the rest

Sometimes, when questions asked, have complex twists or complicated turns
their answers, actually, are simple and short

MizMyColi:
Is like my head is spinning; D

I earlier alluded that, it's strongly evident, that there were "situation problems"

This encouraged the Godhead to propose creative efforts to solve the "situation problems"

Man, is the start of the solution, not just only to solving that "situation problems" but also to meet a need

Man is NOT happenstance, rather is the product of a well-thought-out plan
hence the earlier reference or use of necessity is the mother of invention

MizMyColi:
May I request that you go deeper?
Perhaps on another thread...

Please...

Move deeper in the garden, to see that, there actually were two trees, set in the middle of it
One, symbolises freedom, obtain and eat from, the other symbolised restrain, abstain and not eat from
One symbolises God's knowledge and experience, the other symbolised Man's knowledge and experience
One symbolises dependency on God, the other symbolised independency from God
One symbolises life, the other symbolised death
One symbolises healing, the other symbolised hurting

profolaolu:
Kindly use ur life for something meaningful, U are like a dog barking at the moon

Werent you warned about making thoughtless and reckless total disregard for the truth bile remarks

profolaolu:
Pastor Kumuyi has never or will never force anyone to pay tithe,
if he calls his followers robber for not paying tithe which he had never did or will he ever do,
because he condemn sin and never the sinner, he is right because Malachi said it.

Try search on YouTube, to see, if he called members not paying tithes, robbers or not

profolaolu:
Where do U see a mandatory ecclesiastical tithing?

From Kumuyi's DCLM teachings

profolaolu:
some people are just useless and reckless in life just trying to pull people down

Please refrain from again, throwing up this thoughtless and reckless total disregard for the truth bile remark

profolaolu:
By the grace of God I am a District Youth leader/Rep in Deeper Life
and has stop for paying tithe for about 2½ years no one queries me nor stop me from preaching on Thursday,
stop been miserable and follow the just cause

Exactly, stop been miserable and follow the just cause

Meanwhile Kumuyi, for your information, like he's done on record,
wouldnt mince words, in calling you, a robber, for not giving a mandatory ecclesiastical tithing,
and further will tell you, that for about those 2½ years till now, you are stealing, for not giving the mandatory/obligatory 10% of your income

LoJ:
Hello friend,

First off, I wish to apologize for a mistake I made in my answer

Apology is unnecessary and unwarranted
You actually inadvertently and without making a mistake, answered

LoJ:
What I meant to write was, the story is either esoteric/allegory or fantasia.
English is unfortunately not my first language

It was a hypothetical question
Thinking of the question, in hindsight, I should have made it a binary one

LoJ:
Second, I do not claim to have all truths.
It is perfectly okay if you believe I don't know, or I am ignorant

I don't feel fazed by people who ask questions.
It's those, with one cop out of an excuse or the other, who refuse, that I become suspicious of their motives for not wanting to give answer(s)
It gets me wondering or thinking what's he trying to hide and/or whats he trying to hide from

LoJ:
The best I can utter here, is my perspective, which may hold water or not

Whether it holds water or not isnt part of my remit
I am interested in your perspective
I am curious to know how you see, what you've seen, if you saw anything and will you see
That's why, as a starting point and potentially, for further exploration, I roped you into that question I asked

LoJ:
I greet you warmly. I hope you are fine.

I am loyal, I greet you warmly too.
I am fine, believe you are faring better

LoJ:
Hello all.

I wish to share with you this controversial passage of the Bible, and how I got to experience its depth.

But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety - 1 Timothy 2:15

Please, the floor is yours

Deprofessional:
Mention one blessing that tithers receive which non - tithers will never receive.

orunto27:
Abraham's Blessings!!!

lonikit:
say another tin or u explain wht u mean here

Goshen360:
He WAS ALREADY blessed BEFORE TITHE ....
what u have to say about that?

orunto27, you see, Abraham was at least already seven times blessed before meeting with Mechizedek to give him tithe
so which Abraham's Blessings are you trying to grab hold of?
Like lonikit said, explain what you mean by "Abraham's Blessings" here

sexy74:
correcting doctrines at the late stage, what of people that was mislead like my father.
He mislead them with his doctrine and made most of them lose their esteem and dignity juts because they where trying to adhere to a doctrine.
There will always be a doctrine now or verse to justify all that was done then.
This is medicine after death.
Sincerely he is one man of God I have respected .

Like he once said:
"Before I leave, before I leave, I mean before I go,
I am going to remove EVERYTHING I SET UP,
that I thought will help Deeper Life
and make us holy, make us santified, makes us deep, make us deeper,
and I see it's not making us deeper and shallow
before I leave, I'll UPROOT ALL OF THEM
and present to you a pure church before I leave ... "
I hope he gets to correct the doctrine of mandatory, obligatory ecclesiastical tithing, as soon as he possibly can or at a later stage.

Codeofconduct:
Contrast of complexity, at the bolded

On the contrary.
Can I live life for you?

The, strangely compelling "got to have that knowledge of good and evil" is still here, literally ever present
so much so, that many dont necessarily draw knowledge from others' experiences to gain wisdom...
Many just have to do things, their way
So, reiterating, life, quintessentially, is an experience

Codeofconduct:
Please educate my Ignorance:
Why do bad things happen to good people

Keeping it short and simple, because all currently live in an imperfect world

Codeofconduct:
and why do the seemingly extreme "lefts" seem to bend the laws and walk freely?

"bend the laws" is not exclusive to extreme "lefts"

The nature of the "walk freely" illusion is that, when you see through it, it disappears.
Need I say more?

Codeofconduct:
A little sailing full of hope crashes...

We are sailing, we are sailing
Cross the sea, we are sailing, stormy waters to be near Him

We are flying, we are flying
Like a bird, cross the sky, we are flying, passing high clouds
To be with Him, to be free
Oh Lord, to be near You, to be free

Codeofconduct:
Yet the boy falling from the sky seems to have a sweet sailing

Aye,
the boy falling from the sky actually is having a sweet sailing, with a parachute as his Savior

LoJ:
Hello friend,

I can't answer the question

My dear, other friend than Sarassin, but you unwittingly have already answered
I never had you down as the kind that spoilsports anyway

Remember I wrote:
Reply with a brutal and honest answer
or "I cant possibly tell you/I dont know, I wouldn't know" answer

so your "I can't answer the question" response is OK
You played your part well
Your answer was adequate, your response was able enough for me to see
Extending the question to you, was out of courtesy, you being the OP

LoJ:
because, I dont believe in the literal interpretation of the story of genesis.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves, playing up the field, OK?
I have no recollection of asking about belief in a literal interpretation of the story of genesis.

LoJ:
justs does not make rational sense

One day, it will, make rational sense

LoJ:
The story is either esoteric pure fantasia.

What is the alphabet between V and X called?
How do you pronounce this alphabet, that's after V and before X?
Why aren't you pronouncing it literally, why aren't you pronouncing the way it appears or looks?
Why not saying double-V, instead of double-U?
Just because one doesnt know the rational sense behind pronouncing W, the way it is pronounced
doesnt mean the story of alphabet is esoteric pure fantasia

One doesn't try to understand everything
because sometimes, things are not meant to be understood but rather to just be accepted
Besides, if one can't make sense of certain things, that is perfectly OK
because the minute one gets to know, then one will have to deal with the truth of the sense

There is nothing esoteric about W or any pure fantasia behind pronouncing W
The rationale behind pronouncing W, as Sarassin, wisely and likely will say, "... remains there for those who know how to seek it"

Sarassin:
Yah, I think I can safely say I have been that goat several times over, but then nature instils in us it's very own survival mechanism, which is of course...fear

No, wasn't talking about that, fear wasn't even showing on my radar.
I WAS (<<note edit Sarassin) talking of those body jerking movement moments, even after death.
It's, as if, it's a struggle, to not, let go of life
Yearning for life, in a kind of way.

Sarassin:
And then we have ourselves a problem. We say God, the Divine is perfection a priori and that the creation of a perfect creator cannot be anything but perfect for the purposes of the creator. This of course is the very basis of Tantra

Ah ha, but everything else, individually, was called good, except for Man.
Each stage of creation, God looked at it, and said, it was good
God must have known something, for staying short of saying the creation, Man, was good.
Man, only, as part of the whole creation, was seen to be good

Disorder, soon replaced the goodness, after Man's fall from grace

LotusFan:
Solving a problem? Just like Einstein with E=mc2 ??

Nah, a lot far simpler than that.

The Creator let's Einstein be the nerd

LotusFan:
I think you misunderstood Me.

I meant an "experiment" of the creator, not us humans.

I didn't in the remotest misunderstand you.

I believe strongly the Creator is solving a problem

Humans are NOT happenstance, hence the earlier necessity is the mother of invention.

The Creator IS NOT experimenting with humans
Humans are part of the solution package
Two for the price of one.

LotusFan:
This makes life itself a highly complex science experiment

Life is not a highly complex science experiment at all.
Life, quintessentially, is an experience
Life is what you make it and/or make of it, no one can make it for you‎

Sarassin:
My premise is that life yearns for life, with no other pre-qualification other than to perpetuate itself

Have you lived the moment of feeling how a fowl/cow/goat/ram struggles to live life during and after holding it by the neck and snuff life out of it with a knife?

The gyrating and sporadic kicking is testimony that life yearns for life.
Even though, it's being sucked of life, it's fighting back for existence of life and to continue living

Sarassin:
My view also is that man derogated from the “Tree of life”, but it remains there for those who know how to seek it

Well, if you want to put that way, then I suppose, I can live with that way of thinking

Sarassin:
Alright MuttleyLaff, I will play..

Yes, I would proceed with the creation of Man, but being the sporting "Omniscient" being that I am and given the all-encompassing Love that I have for my creation I would take the awful and terrible decision to deny "oneself" fore-knowledge of the acts of my creation within pre-determined parameters.

You're kicking the play too quickly far away in the field there, probably over shot.
Give me an hour or two to resume back here, I've got this thing, that right now, needs my attention.

Sarassin:
Hi LoJ, Very interesting.
Existence is experience and there is unity in experience.
When we talk of the Word (Logos) the raison d'etre in its truest sense in which all things are one,
it then obtains that opposites are necessary for life, but that they are unified in a system of balanced exchanges.
I believe that our perception of life should be viewed as an ongoing process governed only by the law of change.

Life in itself is a yearning for life, it is neither intrinsically good nor bad,
our experiences are the fire that burnishes the river of gold that is our soul.

Life in itself, now, is a yearning for the original life.

The yearning for the original life, began after Man's eating of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil
The yearn of Man for the original life and to live forever, was stopped by preventing Man access to the tree of life.

It is true, life, in the beginning, did NOT, start either intrinsically good or bad
The original life, was just life, life that was neither intrinsically good nor evil

Sarassin:
It is one of the precepts of Buddhism that all of life is an illusion,
I find that a very fatalistic outlook, for me it is more apt to state that “Man’s aspirations” and “desires” can be illusory in nature.
Our aspirations (or lack thereof) define us, therefore we say that “men are unaware of what they do when they are awake and are equally forgetful of what they do when they are asleep”.

I strongly believe that there was a problem situation
and the necessity being the mother of invention, is the start of the solution, to solving that problem situation

Now, please indulge me, Sarassin and reply with a brutal and honest answer
or "I cant possibly tell you/I dont know, I wouldn't know" answer
Here's the question:
Knowing yourself, knowing who you are, knowing who you be, knowing what you are
if you, for sake of a discussion, at the beginning, you were to be the Omnipotent and Omniscient
and having gone through all the permutations of eating the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil
will you, still go ahead with the idea of creating Man?

Sarassin, I believe and trust you to spot and recognise a merism and/or synecdoche when you see one

PS: Where are my manners. I'll like LoJ, too, to give a honest response to the question

godisgood200:
What causes antispamboad to ban someone?

Algorithm

@Emmanystone
Sorry the finicky antispambot has hidden your post and probably slammed you with a posting ban
Thank you for reaching out to assist that brother

danvon:
Awareness you could say the Pharisees were raising awareness then he's a hypocrite that's what he is whatever religion he believes in it's not Christianity

The Pharisees are and/or were raising awareness to themselves.
Everything they did was always about them.
Whatever they did, it's always self, centred about or around themselves.
It has to be a case of or about how pretty they look
Had to be a case of how greasy and straightened their hair looks

Everyone knows that there's no, I, in TEAM
but I was and always has to be in the Pharisees' TIM

The Pharisee aren't a team player, the and any awareness, for that matter, has to be about them and never a second party
If there should happen to be a second party, then that second party needs to be run down and looked at in disdain

Freeze has raised an awareness to a cause, and not to himself
He is done it, so to provoke and/or encourage others that it could be done

Talking, afterall they say is cheap
so here is a man, who simply, is walking the talk

Freeze could be likened to the Samaritan who helped the victim who was injured and left on the roadside by robbers to die.

A priest and Levite passed by before the Samaritan but neither rendered help to the injured and robbed victim

frank317:
S e u n is already blessed

Bless/blessed/blessing is relative

S e u n sure is blessed and is being a blessing to quite a lot of so many people our there.

frank317:
he didnt need ur God to blessed like u are suggesting...
he is not asking ur God for blessing

No one has said he needed God to bless him.

frank317:
he is just asking to see him

He will see Him

frank317:
Let ur God just prove himslef...
is that one hard for ur God too?

God doesn't have or need to prove Himself to anyone

It is not hard, just that, it's obvious that granting this wish in the manner he wants it to be, isn't on God's agenda.

The ecclesiastical tithe goose that lays the golden egg is about getting being cooked

Seun:
I believe that the story of doubting Thomas was fabricated
to address people like me who would not believe in the resurrection of Jesus due to the lack of evidence.
It simultaneously suggests that
(1) the evidence actually existed, and
(2) that believing without the evidence is somehow superior. What a clever way to avoid having to provide evidence for a highly unlikely claim.

“I believe I can fly”

“I won’t believe you unless you fly in my presence.”

“Last year, I had a friend named Thomas who doubted my ability to fly, just as you do.
He was so embarrassed when I flew in his presence, that he had to kill himself.
He should have just believed me without asking for evidence.
And so should you, by the way.”

https://i57.tinypic.com/34sp9j4.gif
wirinet, you see, told you.
Did I not say, it wont make a difference?

wirinet:
S e u n is also asking for proof, same way Thomas asked for proof.

He can ask,
however he actually, is blessed believing without necessarily asking for proof

wirinet:
How do you or Jesus know it will be a wasted and futile effort?
You mean S e u n would still doubt Jesus if he appeared to S e u n like he did Thomas
and ask S e u n to feel the spear hole in his side?

He is better off believing without asking to feel the spear hole in Jesus side
It is a leap of faith exercise, if anyone, so decides and want to jump
It's carte blanche wirinet