₦airaland Forum

Gombs: https://www.nairaland.com/1917847/proponents-touch-not-anointed#26584954



I also objected to the term 'proponents'

I don't want to start trading words with you!

image123 made it clear he wasn't a proponent meaning he doesn't use the term "touch not"

Proponents are those that support or propagate the use of something

so when did mbaemeka state that he doesn't use the phrase "touch not"

you only had a problem with the word "proponent" but it doesn't change the fact that you support the use of "touch not "

So again when did mbaemeka CLEARLY state that he doesn't use "touch not"

mbaemeka: ^^^

I was cautious about saying some things directly to you because I didn't want 'some fellows' to misconstrue it.

I clearly told you that I am not a proponent of touch not

but I am still aware about order in God's house.

Years ago I had a leader of mine ask me to write an exam for her because she was 'in the spirit' or something like that. Of course, I respectfully declined her request because it didn't sit well with my understanding of God's word. I also know enough to know that she didn't get any of such teachings from her 'Pastor'.

I said that to say this: that not everyone listens or hears at the same level while some others just come in to cause disunity even if they are already leaders. It is important to identify them early enough and keep away from them so as not be drawn in by their sins. Afterall, it is not all that are of Israel that are Israel.

During my foundation class I sat close to 2 girls that didn't seem interested in what the teacher was saying. They took particular objection to the aspect of speaking in tongues. They argued vehemently with the foundation school teacher, contradicting everything he said till they got up and left the place in anger. Shortly after they left, a friend of mine that had just recently given his heart to Christ pulled me to the side and told me some things about the 2 girls that caused no little ruckus on that day. Most of what he said are not printable or edifiable. I kept thinking to myself what name the church would have had if those girls remained there. It was either they got truly saved or they would have done more harm to Jesus' name. And every now and then such people will always come in and a few of them will conceal their intentions for a while before being found out. It does nothing to the teaching of their 'Pastor'. It is a regular occurrence in all good churches world wide. If you are in doubt, you can take some time off and spend it investigating. You would find a lot of things out many of which would do your soul no good.

That's why I took the option of only celebrating the good I see in the word and in others while eschewing fractious topics and people. Pulling down is easy but to build up, it takes a whole lot and I would rather be a builder than a plunderer.

I'm sorry, pls when did you tell me you are not a "proponent"?

Are you image123?

Becos he is the only one that stated that?

Image123: @nanny
There's no thrust whatsoever for me to ponder on from the article, i'm not a proponent of touch not my anointed. Sorry about that, i thought i made that clear earlier? So your defense for the holes in the article is that the writer is human? Really?
i've shared my views on areas i felt the article made no sense and i've also seen your excuse. Don't take it personal, i'm on your side. Come to think of it, even if I wasn't on your side? Don't take it personal. On the issue of fans, do you think Paul had fans in Corinth? You sound unusually shamefaced for a CEC BTW.

Pls accept my sincerest apology, I'm sorry I misconstrued your write up.

on the picking of holes part, I wasn't expressly referring to u though, it was more of a generic statement

for the shamefaced part, what can I say?

have you listened to pastor Chris's old messages, I mean messages dating back to the 80's & early 90's.

certain members of CE havent heard how pastor cleared grass when they where planning for a crusade or how they went preaching in the villages or how they were even pursued on one occasion or the persecution he face with school authorities

the messages then caused you to be sober, caused you to ponder about a lot of things, there is one message titled "try tears" oh oh

so most of those who were around in during this era, built on these old messages .

then came a generation who didn't have access to these messages, this is the resultant effect

So they are running with the present message without knowing where we are coming from


right from when I joined I had always noticed certain things that didn't sit right with me, but I told myself I was there to seek God & not lookup to man

The truth is this most of the folks you know who make "noise" with pastor said statements, haven't really sat down to study what the pastor said & why he said it! So you just find them running with it

sometimes certain circumstance will make them question their convictions while some don't get to experience these circumstances, so they continue in that state

[quote author=Gombs][/quote]^^^^ that's all you have to say to me, mere grammatical corrections, WOW

I have read the link posted by candour, I find nothing wrong with it in the sense that it lists the hallmark & achievements of the ministry

but what is puzzling is that it doesn't address the issue at hand

they caught someone stealing food, red handed rather than apologize or prosecute him, you embark on a long sermon of how the person has been donating food items to people!!

Is the donation the issue or that the person was caught stealing


the hallmarks attributed to the ministry & to pastor can also be attributed to Rev Anita, infact if the brethren in UK should roll out her dossier you will find out that it is equally rich


So this begs the question, if truly she has a rich dossier, did she make those allegations & why would she?

That ought to be the question

you have followed this woman all ur ministry life, you will agree with me u don't know a tip of what she knows, so with all of that, why do u think she will make such allegations


or are u saying those allegations were cooked up by the media?

Gombs: Ok ma, that link Candour posted from my earlier post, have you considered the content of the article too? I can guess your answer is to the negetive.

I haven't read it, I'll read it

Ma'am, i dd not say you said i worship my pastor, from the above write up, i simply asked you whether you too were of the same opiinion, a Yes or No would have been just fine

I won't respond to this, you will go on the defensive

Your response will be similar to what the Catholics normally say when they are accused of worshipping Mary. They normally say "we don't worship her, we honor her"

same thing ma'am, going over your post and some others here, one would think it's a session with journalist who are looking for a bad name to call a dog so that they can hang it.

I didn't open this thread cos I want to call names, check my posts on the WOF thread

I'm not a mouth piece as I have NEVER gave anyone info about ministry activities, addressing allegations and such, if did, it was already made public by the church itself. Now, are you disturbed I'm doing a fine job refuting claims against CE online? but come on, who gave folks the right to be the persecuting counsel of CE online? If you did the same thing, I'm sorry, what i do here is far far different from what you did, i have a vision, purpose and a goal, and yeah, I review them and see the progress made. for example, the ROR page has had ROR daily, i knew the number of views it had daily before i took it up, and i know the number of views it gets now... you have no idea the testimonies and thank yous i get.

Yes, you act as a mouth piece you don't see it cos you are involved in it but an outsider sees it

It's akin to someone whose mouth has an odor, it usually takes another to tell him. That's what I'm telling u

You see, most folks around where i stay don't know i'm from CEC, they get to know, not by how i speak or look, but on how i refuse negative talks and dressing

Don't get me started on the bolded

Paul said, "Be ye imitators of me", etc... I've listened to more than 300 Pastor Chris' messages, add that to T. D. Jake and Kenneth Hagin.

Paul also said follow me as I follow Christ, the operative word being "as I follow Christ" & not just to follow

So if I see any unchrist like attribute, should I still follow

As for messages, In the era of audio tapes, I had more than 200 cassettes, not counting the ones I borrowed or the VCD's & DVD or MP3's I have

By the way, threads that hit on churches and pastors don't make folks agnostic and atheists, right? ok o

They do but the blame will fall on the defaulters & not on the exposers

If they didn't default, it would not have been an issue

If they defaulted,repented & not sought a cover up, it would not have been an issue

so what causes men to give up is not just the fact that something went wrong but the magnitude of what went wrong, how long it has been going on & the manner in which it was handled

check churches in the US, when a minister admits his faults & repents & remorseful. It doesn't really generates much dust but when he doesn't, it usually generates much dust & it is this type of action that turns men away from

In my friends story, if the pastor had profusely apologized to the church for the embarrassment he brought to the church & for not paying my friend & his crew, even an unbeliever will be moved by such humility & repentance

Rather than ponder on the thrust of the article, some folks are busy picking holes in the articles

Why won't there be holes, is the article not written by human?

mbaemeka: The church immediately returned the Generator to Sheraton and life moved on but Oremosu who didn't do any research thought it wise to include it in his/her write-up.

I hope the quote below will address ur last paragraph, he said according to his knowledge, it wasn't a statement of certainty


Q1. Cite a newspaper publication where "the Church" returned the generator?

If there is none, how do u expect the public to know that it was returned? Even if there is one, the man said "according to the best of the knowledge"

The ministry was just glad to receive the money and to my knowledge, never paid it back

Image123: @nanny
Interesting article by Oremosu. However, it's shoddy how the writer arrived at a conclusion that Oyedepo was bigger than Jesus Christ in Winners church. No need to wonder how stuff would play out with Oyedepo if daughter of a Senator or some other prominent member of society came to him in front of everybody forming witch. Ask them in covenant university. Ask them how able Oyedepo is.
On Peter and Paul, Peter was wrong, Paul was right, Peter took to correction. Very simple.No need to autosuggest the writer's DAYDREAM it is only a dream. Also according to 1Corinthians, Paul and Peter also had fans, no be today. Otherwise, interesting article.

I'm amazed that this is all you could could get from the writeup

On the issue of fans, aren't u ashamed to use such word with respect to the church

Is this the premier league, so one can call u a fanatic then!!

Here is what your bible has to say to you.

1corinthians3:3-7

3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

Gombs: sahara reporters are not reliable folks, over the years they incredibly outdid drummaboy aka WinsomeX, Goshen and Candour in dishonesty, a feat that is superbly legendary on NL. (Gombs, 2014)

putting them up as source is damning, besides these, the writ was just too long. Thanks anyway.

but do you also think i worship my Pastor? why and how did you reach such conclusions?

firstly, Sahara reporters was the platform in which the article was submitted

Secondly I added the writers name, I didn't do a search on him, I haven't read any of his previous article & I doubt if he is a staff of Sahara reporters

So this has nothing to do with the platform but rather the content of the article!!!


This will shock you, this is my 11th year in Christ embassy, I don't know the level you have gotten to but in our words "I'm a son" in the house

as to your last paragraph, I won't say much
Q1. when did i accuse you of worship? can you make a reference implicitly or explicitly?

Q2.Why are you on the offensive/defensive, I only invited you to get your thought on this subject but you have almost taken it as though you are the one being accused

gleaning through all your post one will think you are the PR of CE,

Q3. Who made u the mouth piece & defender of CE online, several years ago, I did the same thing but over time I understood that the important thing is about defending Christ & not the ministry, so now I don't bother myself, I know most of the accusations against CE & I also know the responses brethren give

(for others info:when you see similar explanations from CE members, it's not that we are taught what to say, it stems from the fact that we all listen to one source, it more or less from the mindset we have come to have, hence the similar responses

That being said, it will shock you to know that some of the things the brethren say or do are not known at the top, if not correction would have long been made)

someone once told me she didn't know I was a member of Christ embassy, I wasn't offended but I would have cried if she had told me she didn't know I was a Christian, h fortunately for so many the reverse would have been the case

Q4. Have u so passionately defended Christ the way you defend the ministry(before u answer this know that all your post on NL can be studied) I want u to consider the answer carefully & don't just scream YES

the thing is that most of us haven't started asking ourselves serious questions, hence the drama

It's best you ask yourself such questions urself before unpleasnat circumstances will force you to, that's the reason someone pointed it out in this forum that some folks have turned agnostics

They never asked themselves questions, they never sought to know if they were still in the faith(whether they were still following the book)


It had to take an unpleasant event to wake them to the truth & they felt angry, deceived etc and had to give up completely

Some persons might not understand where I'm coming from & I won't be surprised if u don't get me too


I hope this one isn't too long for you too & also hope u'll see the spirit I wrote this

PS: pls don't give me the epistle of I'm a rebel or I'm not truly a son or its not about the number of years etc I know the drill

Gombs: ^^
Too long ma'am, the link sahara reporters didn't help matters. Good afternoon

Don't get you, is it that the link is broken or what?

If its too long, visit the link, it will be properly formatted there

The Anointing And The Anointed - Modern Christianity’s Curse by Adetoye Oremosu Sep 28, 2014


The word 'anointing' is probably the worst word that has been introduced to the Nigerian Christian’s vocabulary in recent years. Like the word ‘gay' that used to mean ‘merry' and now means 'homosexual', ‘anointing' has been infused with new and inferior meanings. Anointing used to refer to the power of God at work to change lives and bring men closer to God by his miracles or judgement. And the anointed was the vessel through which God accomplished these works. The vessel was never really that important because God used sticks (Moses’ rod), animals (Prophet Balaam’s donkey), as well as people. It was his power that was important, not the vessel. However, in this modern era of Christianity, the anointed has gained significantly more prominence over the anointing and has begun to Lord it over the people of God. The anointing now stands for the ability to make money from, entertain, manipulate and/or bully church members and communities to submit to the will of the so-called anointed leader of a congregation or denomination in the name of God. It is experienced as goosebumps, excited exuberance, gyrations and screams in service, falling under the power, beautiful aesthetics, highfalutin words, and prophetic blessing or cursing. For example, an unentertaining choir will most likely not be considered anointed and any church experience that gives congregants ecstatic euphoria is considered very anointed. Really?! People seem to forget that Pharaoh’s magicians performed the same miracles as Moses with their sorcery. And much like ‘gay', the nouveau Christianity welcome the new definition of the 'anointing' and it’s new ‘anointed’ carriers as an accepted way of life.
I wonder at times if we haven’t seen people falling out at a Michael Jackson concert? Haven’t we felt goosebumps listening to Whitney Houston or some other musician sing an inspirational song? Have we not heard secular/non-Christian speakers make accurate predictions about the future? Are these people anointed because they create these effects or do these things? Many Christians will answer, yes. Therein lies the problem. Nigerian church leaders, the new class of anointed, have attracted and cultivated a gullibility in their followers that world-class illusionists and hypnotists should take heed to learn from. Be sober, be vigilant, be cautious at all times for your enemy, the devil, roams around like a lion seeking whom he may devour. Watch and pray. These are Bible admonitions given to Christians, but many are too busy defending the anointed while the enemy continues to steal, kill and destroy in their lives.


It would seem like the more anointed a Pastor is, the more money he is expected to have. The thinking of many pastors is summarized in this scripture, ”a poor man’s wisdom is quickly despised”. The interpretation often given to scriptures like this is sometimes baffling. Statements like “no money, no respect” which has defined our society’s way of life arise from it. This aside, how about Jesus? Was he rich in his earthly ministry? Matthew, Mark, Luke and John show us that he had influence and his needs were met as he trusted God to meet them but he did not have wealth, neither did he merchandise his power or teachings like his so-called messengers now do. In fact Paul said, Jesus was made poor for our sake. The concluding part of that scripture says that we through his poverty might become rich. Let me quickly make a point here before the prosperity preachers start frothing at the mouth. Was Apostle Paul (the man who wrote this scripture) rich himself? Was Timothy, his protégé rich? Remember the warning Paul gave to Timothy about Christians whose motive is to get rich. He said, many have wandered away from the faith because of it and have pierced themselves with many sorrows. He further tells Timothy to teach those who are rich not to be proud and not to trust in their money. Paul must not have heard about the new “if you’ve got it, flaunt it” gospel. James said, “listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming on you…You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter. You have condemned and murdered the innocent one, who was not opposing you.” “The son of man has no place to lay his head”, it was said about Jesus. This is how rich Jesus Christ, the Father of Christianity, was. I use the term “Father of Christianity” because every pastor is ‘Papa’ and a “Father in the Lord” today. If they are indeed in the Lord, Christ, they would obey him, but are they? The love of money is the root of all evil, yet many congregations are taught to love money, seek money, and celebrate money every Sunday morning. Trust these new anointed men of God to reinterpret scripture for us. Hypnotists take note.


Nevertheless scriptures do not condemn Christians to poverty rather they suggest that riches or lack thereof should be irrelevant to our walk with God, rather than this place of prominence that it has taken in our worship. Jesus said, “Be careful to guard against all forms of greed, because even if someone is rich, his life does not consist in what he owns.” Apostle Paul said, "I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want”. However, our new anointed pastors will teach "5 secrets of prosperity" and "10 steps to your financial freedom" but the secret of being content in every situation of life, Never! How can you talk about lack? It is a curse, isn’t it? Paul must not have read that memo that’s why he would dare suggest learning to be content even when in lack. It is unfortunate that many Christian ministers are compromised; collecting money from drug dealers, scammers, thieves, and corrupt government officials who come to give “tithes” and “prophetic offerings” to their anointed men of God. Using these monies to build schools and giant auditoriums do not make the gift any more holy than the ill means by which they were got. You may remember some years ago when Lawrence Agada, a senior cashier with Sheraton Hotels and Towers paid Christ Embassy N39 million in the name of sowing seed. How the cashier came about such money while his salary from the hotel was ostensibly his only source of income was not the church’s concern. The ministry was just glad to receive the money and to my knowledge, never paid it back. Before we criticize this ministry as being uniquely bad, let’s be aware that this is not only common practice but has been raised to level of epidemic in churches around us today. Pastors have become the new “babalawos” of modern thieves. They proclaim blessings in exchange for gifts. Prophet offering! It’s a nice scam that’s paying its proponents big dividends. This is not so much a new phenomenon as a reincarnation in a new Christian order. The Italian mafia and some Catholic priests have historically had a similar relationship for several generations until the recent purge attempt by Pope Francis.


A more amazing phenomenon and a case study for future hypnotist and illusionists is that congregations will defend their ‘anointed’ men of God even with evidence of impropriety. Anointed men/women of God may misappropriate church funds and the congregation whose funds have been spent on personal gain will be the first to fight you for speaking up. Church members will tell you "I don’t care what they do with the money. My part is to obey God. Let God deal with them”. Interesting! You can see how God has been dealing with them as they build bigger houses, travel round the world at your expense, live in 5-star hotels, give expensive gifts to their girlfriends, buy new cars and jets, while you can hardly pay your child’s school fees, right? All these despite the fact that many of these pastors have no other jobs. Have you heard pastors brag on their pulpits that they don’t need their congregation’s financial gifts. I’ve noticed that many full -time pastors who dare say such things have milked their member’s money and contacts for several years prior and long enough to build and establish theirs and their spouse’s businesses, so now they can brag. However in an interesting twist, this reverse psychology, seems to inspire their congregation to give to them even more money. These gullible congregations and their anointed men of God definitely deserve each other.
When a pastor sleeps around, the usual attitude and responses from faithfuls are “Who are you to speak about it?” “Leave him to God.” “He’s God servant. God will deal with him.” And the all time classic “Touch not his anointed.” They continue to say this until it’s them, their sister, daughter, wife, mother, or friend that the Pastor has seduced/impregnated and then they sing a different tune. How very spiritual indeed. An anointed man of God may sleep with church members and get away with it as long as he’s still perceived as being 'anointed'. By the way, whatever happened to Biodun Fatoyinbo’s robust response to the sexual allegation by Ese Walters. I must have missed it. After writing this, I’m expecting the usual threats, curses, unsolicited advice and warnings about my daring to talk about an “anointed man of God” in this manner or my insolence at referring to an anointed man of God without his title. By the way, true respect is earned, not automatically given or even demanded. That’s another thing this hypocritical culture needs to learn.


Have you noticed that the more recognition a man of God has, the bigger his church congregation is expected to be, even if he is a crook. If a pastor has a small congregation, he must not be that anointed. It’s as if the crowd around him is an indication of the level of his anointing. So there’s an unholy drive for church growth by all means. How dare a pastor of a small congregation speak up against the teachings of one with a bigger congregation? The half-brained and generally accepted reasoning among church goers is that he must be jealous of what the bigger pastor has and so should shut up without them even analyzing the merits of what was said. So the truthiness of an issue is now determined by what the more influential man of God says it is. How interesting! Furthermore, pastors of large congregations are quick to quote from the Acts of the Apostles that when the anointing came on the church, many people were added to the church. However, they forget that Jesus was sometimes without a large congregation and he, unlike them, had the anointing without measure. Remember when Jesus told the crowd that they had to eat his body and drink his blood? Everybody left him except his true disciples which were few in number. Think about how many people would remain in Church if the pastor ever told the truth that corrupt officials, scammers, and fornicators would not inherit the Kingdom of God, no matter how much prophet offering they brought to him. You can’t buy your way into heaven. Funny thing is that congregations might actually point to their pastors as the most guilty. I will go further to talk about John the Baptist who when he was losing his crowds to Jesus and his disciples asked him about it said, Jesus must become greater, I must become less.
Somebody should tell that to some church people like Winner’s chapel members who call on the "god of our Father, Bishop David Oyedepo". A church where the Bishop is increasingly getting bigger than Jesus Christ himself. That’s why he’ll slap a young girl who claimed to be a “witch for Jesus” and otherwise intelligent people would think it’s ok. Sure, it’s fine as long as the witch is an unsophisticated, semi-educated girl from Imo State. I wonder how this would have played out if she had turned out to be the daughter of a Senator or some other prominent member of society. Here’s a litmus test: take the name of Jesus in vain or curse in Jesus’ name around many Winners (indeed many Christians) and they may not notice and some may go as far as frowning. But you tell the truth about their anointed Prophet’s unbiblical conduct or proclamations and get ready for hell. It’s an interesting phenomenon where the messenger is honored more than his master, isn’t it? To be fair, this illusion is not limited to Winners Chapel. Or should we talk about T. B. Joshua who may have inadvertently murdered over a hundred people by the collapse of his church building. He then tries to pull the wool over everyone’s face that it was a UFO or Boko Haram’s fault. Abracadabra! Now you see me, now you don’t. Welcome to Illusionist 101. He would mostly likely be acquitted of any wrongdoing by whatever pseudo-investigation is conducted by the Nigerian government. Nicholas Ibekwe’s recording of T. B. Joshua’s press briefing may shed more light on tactics being adopted. But really, so the god of Bishop David Oyedepo answers prayer differently than God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. We need to investigate this god further. The god of Bishop David Oyedepo does the impossible. It gives you children even though you don’t have a womb. It raises the dead. It gives you wealth beyond your imagination. It even gives Oyedepo power to curse anyone that dares criticize his words or actions and it comes to pass. Very interesting! Remember Pharaoh’s magicians? Just saying


We have become men worshippers, haven’t we? Worshipping E. A. Adeboye, Umai Ukpai, David Oyedepo, Chris Oyakhilome, T. B. Joshua, Matthew Ashimolowo, Kenneth Hagin, Kenneth Copeland or any other celebrity pastors out there. I’ll be surprised if I don’t get cussed out by some people just for mentioning the names of their god - excuse me - anointed man of God, here. “You shall have no other god besides me”, the Bible says. We are to “serve God without respect of persons”. Isn’t it ironical that these so-called anointed preachers will actually teach their congregations this but will expect this same congregation to respect their own opinion more than the Bible’s. These anointed men will even go as far as to teach that God’s leading in your life and even your conscience is subject to their spiritual guidance. Some will teach this directly and still others will invite another ‘anointed’ celebrity pastor to teach this to their people to give it more weight and make it seem like it’s not just their own opinion. Church members are further taught to fight people who criticize their anointed men of God and like heedless sheep they fight when a cross word is spoken about their Bishop but will not even flinch when the cross is disparaged.
If Christ is not the center of your Christian worship, you are not a Christian. Period. You may be a Redeemer, a Deeper Lifer, a Winner or whatever moniker your congregation is known by but certainly not a Christian. Let’s stop deceiving ourselves. The scriptures say, “looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith”, not looking at an anointed man. The scripture doesn’t even say looking unto Jesus through your anointed man. The man of God is a servant, not a boss! He’s a tool that God uses and is not to Lord it over you, even if he’s so anointed that he floats in the sky.


As anointed as Peter was, so much that his shadow was healing the sick, Paul called him to order in a way that would have caused a scandal in today’s churches. Furthermore it was on a matter that would have been considered trivial. Peter had retreated from eating with the Gentiles in Antioch for fear of the Jews who came from Apostle James in Jerusalem and many Jews followed his example including Barnabas. So what?! But Paul seeing Peter's duplicity publicly accused him of being a hypocrite. I sometimes daydream of how this would have played out if it was David Oyedepo, Chris Oyakhilome, Chris Okotie or other ‘great’ Presiding Prelate or General Overseer in Nigeria who was in Peter’s place. First of all members of their congregation would probably have accosted Paul and asked him how he had the effrontery, and audacious temerity to talk to a General of God like that, especially one of Peter’s revered status. The anointed man of God would probably also have preached a sermon and written Paul through his Communications Director. He would have asked Paul where he was throughout the three and a half years of Jesus’ ministry on the earth, when he, Peter, was learning how to do ministry directly, unadulteratedly from the master, Jesus Christ himself. He would have told him how he was one of the few who witnessed Jesus’ earthly ministry from the beginning to the end; how he was one of only 3 other human beings who were with Jesus at the Mount of Transfiguration, who saw Moses and Elijah and heard God’s voice boom, “This is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased: hear ye him”; how he, Peter, had walked on water just like Jesus and how many people did Paul know who walked on water. He would have told Paul about how he had attended a wedding where he witnessed Jesus’ first miracle and was one of the last to see him ascend to heaven. He would told him how he was one of the 3 inner circle members of the 12 disciples who later became Apostles. He would have made Paul feel that he did not fear spiritual authority by not realizing that when Jesus was ascending to heaven, he left him, Peter, in charge of the church. But he didn’t, because in spite of all of these great spiritual experience he had, in that moment, Peter was a hypocrite and was leading the Church astray by his actions. So rather, Peter humbly accepted the correction of a nobody; a man who had been a persecutor of the church; who had never met Jesus before he was crucified; who had no title or position in the church administration. For Peter, the truth was bigger than his ego. Someone needs to teach this to the many tin-gods, with over-bloated sense of self importance, who mount Nigerian Church pulpits every Sunday.


Just for a moment, if you are old enough, think back to what Christianity looked like before these words ‘anointing’ and ‘anointed’ became common place among Nigerian Christians and tell me that Christianity has taken a turn for the better. I don’t smoke or do drugs but if you think Christianity has, I’d like to try whatever it is you are smoking or sniffing so we can hallucinate together. Let’s leave all this anointing nonsense and let’s get back to what Christianity is about, reconciling the world back to God through the preaching of repentance from dead works and acceptance of the redemptive work of Christ on the cross of calvary, so that he, Christ, can return to take his own. Finally, if your pastor’s opinion has a bigger sway on your life than what the Word of God actually says, you need to snap out of the hypnotism is all I’m saying. So now, how many fingers am I holding up?

http://saharareporters.com/2014/09/28/anointing-and-anointed-modern-christianity%E2%80%99s-curse

Jarus: Frankly, job scams should be easy to bust by any decent graduate, especially those by those hare-brained Nigerian job scammers.

Imagine someone calling himself NNPC H.R Manager sending you an email from Gmail account and asking you to call one Dr Oke? And some people fall for that! C'mon.

I wrote an article on the subject last year or so: http://www.jarushub.com/5-ways-to-identify-fraudulent-recruitment-arrangement/:

Kindly check your link

Kindly help me check

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Thanks

kindly move your "akparakpo" to another thread

I once had a leader who will tell you that if he insults you & you dare insult him back, you are insulting the anointing of God upon his life

The proponent of "touch not" usually end their statements with

judge not!!

you heap curses on yourself/generation

watchout 5yrs from now etc


WHY WHY WHY


Yet Jesus had this to say

Luke9:54-56

54 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?
55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
56 For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them.And they went to another village.


Who then are we following?

Gombs: Why are you now drinking panadol for his headache? PM him to keep updating details about his life. I[b]'ve handed him to the devil[/b], except he does the needful...you won't understand, so no need!

You also wrote the above in response to your being questioned about the curse

Q1. On whose authority did you hand him over to satan?

I guess you took a cue from Paul in

1corithians 5

1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.


If u can take a cue from Paul & hand someone over to satan why can't I take a cue from Paul by correcting a pastor when he does wrong just as Paul corrected peter?


I'll ponder on what u asked me to but u didn't answer my questions o, on my last post

Gombs: That's their level of knowledge, mature sons don't. Meanwhile if you insult minsters of the gospel for whatever reason, you walk in a curse, not that God cursed you, you walk out of blessings with/by your words and/or actions.

if you insult minsters of the gospel for whatever reason, you walk in a curse not that God cursed you

But you cursed someone for misconstruing a minister's statement(names withheld) as quoted by candour

Gombs: Point for me in the OP where he said she is no longer a woman of God...if not, and if u can't, I curse you!

Below is the person's response to u

Demainman1:

So if you curse me what will happen? Will i die?

I won't curse you, Pst Chris has already done that by making you one of his slaves!

then here is your response

Gombs:Watch how your life goes henceforth! Unless you turn from what you said here... except I'm not annointed of God!

You also offered this explanation when asked about the efficacy of your curse

I pray like a priest and speak like a king.

We've had our differences on NL, not just u and Kunle n d rest... but never have I invoked a curse... irrespective of worse words folks said in this thread, I didn’t... His own came from my spirit, and twas NOT from anger. My hands were shaky as I typed out his curse.

If he does not turn from what he said here in sincerity to God, he shall remain so.

Many who spoke against Men of God walk under a curse and they don't know it...but I pronounced him cursed for reasons I won't tell you.

Q1.pls can you help me put things in the right perspective?

Q2.Why couldn't you act according to the admonition Jesus gave to the disciple who wanted to call down thunder in Luke 9

54 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?
55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
56 For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them.And they went to another village.

Gombs: Sorry Ma'am


That's their level of knowledge, mature sons don't. Meanwhile if you insult minsters of the gospel for whatever reason, you walk in a curse, not that God cursed you, you walk out of blessings with/by your words and/or actions.

You just did the same thing now, just that yours is subtle.

The verses I mentioned to u, did u see where curses where mentioned!!

Gombs: I didn't bother ma'am... in all those, Jesus was reported not firing back or threatening or such. How many times have you seen T. B. Joshua, Oyedepo, Oyakhilome, Hinn, Copeland, etc... how many times have they threatened their accusers or rained brimstones on them?

Furnish me with examples if you have any.

I'm anticipating someone asking 'so Jesus and Those you mentioned are now same' or 'so, they are your Jesus now?'

I told you before, no mentioning of names!!

Are you telling me present day Christians don't lay curses on those who speak ill of christain ministers?

nannymcphee: 1peter 2:23

Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously

the verse above is talking about Jesus

Luke23:33-34

33 And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left.
34Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

Acts7:59-60

59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
60And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

Luke9:54-56

54 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?
55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
56 For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them.And they went to another village.


The verses above shows the New Testament practice, where then do we get the present day practice of calling fire & brimestone on those that criticize ministers ?

those that use the story of Miriam or the prophet who command wild beast to devour those kids or even Ananias & sapphira seems to forget that we are in a dispensation of grace & mercy.

If peter had informed sapphira about her husbands demise, before he spoke, she would have told the truth & her life would have been spared. Christians today do worse than what Ananias did & nothing happens to them.

maybe I'm getting it wrong, but seeing the pattern Jesus laid & with verses I listed above, I ask again why do Christians lay curses on folks who criticizes ministers or even insult them?

Still waiting for answers to this

Gombs: Let God judge the man, not you or your friend. Does two wrongs make a right?

but your friend thought testimony time was far better, no?

aha, at least now there was an explanation..the first post you had earlier suggested the pastor did not even want to see them.

I'm amazed at your response! My friend tried all avenue to get across to the pastor but could not, they were bared from entering the office complex, that's why he chose that extreme step

see na! Someone..was that someone a senior staff? if yes, does he or she work with finance department? why didn't he call the Boss of that firm? My point here is that there is obvious communication glitch... a whole lot

There is no glitch, the company is a small company owned by the pastor

You see it so, because you wanted me to see it from your friend's perspective, remember, everyone is right in their own eye. you didnt hear the Pastor's side of the story, did you?

What's his own story, he is the owner of the company, the client has paid him & he had refused to pay his workers

you claiming he lied based on what your friend told you, for Pete's sake he may have called a cleaner or security man he knew working there, for it is against company standard t give information to "strangers" especially went money payments are involved.

My friend called his friend who is an accountant in the clients firm, who confirmed the pastors company had been paid

your friend... No matter how you see it, taking a microphone in church to complain about a debt and asking the congregants to join him beg their pastor to pay him is not justifiable in any way.

He didn't complain, it was testimony time & simply stated the facts, no commotion was caused, it was at that point, the visiting senior pastor told them(my friend & his crew) to see him after service

i'd be frustrated especially if i know the monies were held for no cogent reasons..but should that make me go to the church and announce that their pastor refuse paying me? of all sensible ways of getting the debt paid? aren't their elders in that church he could first complain to? aren't there christian bodies in that state hew could write to? did he pray about it? He should have gone to the press na! He did the job with the Pastor's company, NOT the church!

Excuse me, why did the pastor Barr them from entering the office complex.

A pastor that could lie to a senior pastor?

What then can the elder do who is under the pastor?

Excuse me, i have worked for 6momths & you refuse to pay me, you want me to write to Christian bodies & pray? Wow

Did he threaten to sack your friend? this is a new detail o

He didn't, I only used that to buttress what's happening in other circles

for disregarding the presence of God in the gathering of brethren. If the governor was sitting there in the congregation, would he have gone to the front with a microphone to announce the said debt? He can't... He'd not dare.

Yes he would have!! Gods presence was not disregarded, it was the pastor that disregarded the house of God.

1peter 2:23

Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously

the verse above is talking about Jesus

Luke23:33-34

33 And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left.
34Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

Acts7:59-60

59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
60And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

Luke9:54-56

54 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?
55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
56 For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them.And they went to another village.


The verses above shows the New Testament practice, where then do we get the present day practice of calling fire & brimestone on those that criticize ministers ?

those that use the story of Miriam or the prophet who command wild beast to devour those kids or even Ananias & sapphira seems to forget that we are in a dispensation of grace & mercy.

If peter had informed sapphira about her husbands demise, before he spoke, she would have told the truth & her life would have been spared. Christians today do worse than what Ananias did & nothing happens to them.

maybe I'm getting it wrong, but seeing the pattern Jesus laid & with verses I listed above, I ask again why do Christians lay curses on folks who criticizes ministers or even insult them?

Gombs: Now, I don't have full details, maybe your friend didn't do as they agreed, but if all conditions are met, and the pastor refuses pay (highly unlikely), then cops gotta get him, that's nafter all means has been exhausted.

This story is not nollywood or "them say", the job was offshore & the company was owned by the pastor, find out from folks who work offshore, the moment u hit town, ur alert come in,

my friend held his part of the bargain

That is soooooo wrong and God would not be pleased at such. There are order in God’s house, your friend could have met an elder in the church quietly, he disregarded the church and the office of the Pastor, not the man, but the office.

If my friend disregarded the church & office of the pastor, what about the pastor that went against Gods word that talks about paying workers their wages & being truthful & honest?? Didn't the pastor dishonor God, the church & his office? (I hope touch not will not apply here)

What was his gain now? Proving the pastor is 'wicked' or 'evil'? to what end? Folks sha. Don’t forget, maybe you didn't have the full details, the pastor might ot be aware of the debt, if he were, maybe there was a breach of contract, if there wasn't, you can’t conveniently tell me someone worked for you, and you deliberately withheld pay for no reason at all

The long story I skipped was that, there was a visiting senior pastor from headquarters that Sunday, he told them they should see him after service

The pastor claimed that the client had not paid, hence the delay in payments

My friend called someone from the clients firm who worked with the account dept, the call was placed on speaker & he confirmed that they weren't owing the pastors firm

He should go beg God...you need understand something, the church of God DOES not practice democracy, you don't always have freedom of expression and 'rights'... what happened to humility? Patience? Endurance? Love? Etc even if the pastor was wrong, what happened to his Christian morals? Who was he like in the Bible?

I'm shocked at ur responses, u left the pastor & focused on my friend, who is in a better position to walk in the light of the questions u asked above? The pastor or the lay member

Let me borrow ur words, what happened to the pastors love?

What happened to the pastors Christian moral?

Who has the pastor acted like in the bible?

Why did the pastor order the guards not to let them into the office complex?

why did the pastor lie that he was being owed?

At the end of the day, who brought shame to the body of Christ? The pastor or my friend?


I'm earnestly waiting for the answers to this questions


I hope u won't feed the me the "touch not"

My friend did not cause commotion in church, he simply stated the facts, that he had worked without pay & they should join him in begging the pastor to pay up

I hope u earn a living, how will be like for u to work 6months without pay, with a wife & kids?

I don't know where u live, in Nigeria here, some companies owe staffs salaries for months & still threaten them with sack should they decide not to come to work

So why should a Christian business owner practice this? Not to talk of a pastor!

so what exactly should my friend beg God for?

Gombs: All... we are to judge none, touch none, not by mouth, pen or however

Q1.Kindly explain what Paul was addressing in 1 Corinthians 5:12-13


12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”


Q2.where do you get this notion of by pen or by mouth? All the verses preceding the "touch not my....." talks about assault or physical harm

Define the word 'crime' ...because, they said Chris Oyakhilome commited a crime too.... but if you find him breaking traffic rules or give bribes etc...Arrest him, you are doing your job! Make sure you don't do the arresting in the church!

pls don't bring in names so that the thread won't be derailed.

Why can't I arrest a pastor in church when he has broken the law?

A friend of mine worked for a Pastor of a well known church(name withheld) . him & his crew were owed for 6months, no pay

The pastor gave instructions to the security guys not to allow them into the office complex, they did the job offsite, they tried all they could to get his attention to no avail

So one Sunday, they all decided to go to his church, the pastor didn't notice them, unfortunately for the pastor he was the first to speak during testimony time, my friend took the mic & narrated everything & that the congregation should pls join him in begging the pastor to pay.

long story short, the pastor paid them the next day.

question: Did my friend do wrong by going to the church to do this?

^^^^^
Thanks, still waiting to hear the view of those that use the phrase

Gombs,mbaemeka,joagbaje, Drummaboy, winsomex,shidemidemi

Pls I'll like your opinion

1 chronicles16:17-22

17 And hath confirmed the same to Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant,
18 Saying, Unto thee will I give the land of Canaan, the lot of your inheritance;
19 When ye were but few, even a few, and strangers in it.
20 And when they went from nation to nation, and from one kingdom to another people;
21 He suffered no man to do them wrong: yea, he reproved kings for their sakes,
22 Saying, Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm

for those who use this verse as a line of defense when accusations are laid against a MAN OF GOD!!


Pls I will appreciate answers to the following questions

1. Who was God referring to in this verse

2.Does this verse cover all Christians who are anointed or its strictly for MEN OF GOD

3. If its not exclusive to MEN OF GOD alone, how come its not used when a Christian who isn't a leader is being slandered

4a.As a Christian police officer, If I catch a MAN OF GOD committing a crime, should I arrest him or turn the other way becos of this verse??

4b. As a Christian police officer, if the use of excessive force is required to restrain a violent MAN OF GOD, should I use such force or let him continue his attack

(For Q4a & b, i ask becos the verse says do the prophet no harm)

5a. As a Christian judge, should I recuse myself from a case involving a MAN OF GOD

5b.As a Christian judge, should I free a guilty MAN OF GOD

(For Q5a & b, I ask becos proponents of this verse, usually say leave judgement for God who called them)

PS:pls don't tell me a MAN OF GOD can't be violent or does no wrong, because we have had case where some did

pls don't also tell me that no genuine MAN OF GOD Will do those things, that is not the objective of my questions

Kindly provide answers based on the scenarios presented.

Thanks

Eyop: The 1st link is preferable than the 2nd. Though both have exterior defects which will require some touches because i noticed rust. The prices too aren't the same but in all,mechanical aspect of it matters and i do hope you have someone that will inspect that for you before you purchase.

Thanks, someone will go check it, this weekend

I was wondering why the second one had that mileage considering the year

Pls can someone check these links & tell me which one to pick

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/mississauga-peel-region/c230-mercedes-benz-c-class-2000-elegance/1011346266?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true



http://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/mississauga-peel-region/2000-mercedes-benz-c-class-sedan-buy-or-trade/583058551?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true


Thanks

I want to believe we are all educated. If someone says in ABC ministries they do so & so during service, the onus rest on ABC ministries to ignore the accusation or give a statement as to whether its false or true & if true, to give prove or show the order of service/how their service is being run

Gombs,mbaemaka,jogbaje etc I know you guys ain't PR For CEC, it's either you ignore these allegations or tell the whole world the various stages/phase a student will pass thru in the healing school, from registration to finish.

If you had done the above, i believe clarity would have come in & more intelligent questions would have followed!!

PS: being a member of CEC, I'm sure u know it took sirjohn alot of balls to have opened this thread while still being a member & also making it official by writing to the pastor, I'm very sure explanations weren't given to him(at most he was told "the matter is too high for u"

If good explanations were given to him, I'm sure he would've provided such explanations here.

someone told u the headings are fake & u're here providing the very same videos he is calling into question, aren't u fueling his suspicion, if u had provided videos of behind the scenes or a follow up videos of those that got healed, maybe 3 yrs post healed experience that would have solved the whole thing

Pls stop responding or do the needful

I'm a Christian and this is my submission

Proverbs 22:15

Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him


Proverbs 23:13-14

13 Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.
14 Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.

Proverbs 29:15

The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame.

PS: these verses do not in any way support extreme actions, beating till marks & scars are acquired, rubbing pepper on body parts etc

Rod of correction could also refer to verbal correction, after all the book of proverbs contains words of wisdom spoken from a father to a child(David to Solomon)

kandiikane: Madam one slap should cause such fuss because that one slap opens the floodgates to many more slaps and batterings. Your mothers may have turned about well in your eyes because that was the image they wanted to portray.


Both of them should sit down and discuss their issues. Their dislikes and try to work out solution. They need to meet each other halfway. The man seem to have alot of pride and ego and he needs to bring it down a notch, that is his wife and not his mates in the streets. The woman needs to find her inner calm when she feels she is about to get angry and the man should stop provoking his wife.
If with all these years they cannot sit and reach such compromise then I guess they are just done with the marriage. Every woman is different, just because you can endure physical violence in your relationship doesn't mean another can.

I'm not a proponent for assault/battery but common, based on the piece, this is the first time in 16yrs, thats things turned physical, meanwhile it is the lady that has been verbally abusive. So give the guy some credit, just one slap & it didn't degenerate to a beating.

She called the cops so who is at the receiving end now, is it the man or the woman? Everybody is so focused on the slap & nobody is talking about the verbal abuse the man has been enduring, of which I'm sure those verbal torrents of insults are usually the triggering factor of their fights