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Pls take note


Matthew 23:1-3

1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not

inother words, do what i say or teach you based on Gods words & not what i do

The verse above will tell you that on the last day, no one will give an excuse of "it's my pastor that misled me, he was doing it so I decided to follow suit"

Paul said

1 Corinthians 11

1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

The keyword being "as he is of Christ or as he follows Christ" so if his actions are not Christlike, then you know what to do

BrotherJohn: Jocelyn and Wilson have been married for 16 years, in that time Wilson feels that Jocelyn has always been verbally abusive to him. It is as if she has verbal diarrhoea anytime there is an argument.

Anything and everything has been said to hurt him. Jocelyn on the other hand feels that it is her husband who is the bully and aggressor and she is always first to apologises every time they fight. She feels he is not the very forgiving type.

One day during an argument, Wilson hits back at her with a slap. Jocelyn was so taken aback and in that instant she remembers that her dad told her that she should never stay with any man who hits her because his own sister was killed by a violent husband. Jocelyn proceeds to call the police who immediately ordered Wilson to leave the house. It is now 2 months since Wilson left the house insisting that the embarrassment was too much and he doesn’t think there is a future for them.

Jocelyn misses him but she is afraid that once is more than enough, he could likely do it again. The family and church have tried to help them work it out but nothing seems to be working. There is a stalemate which means Jocelyn is left with responsibility of looking after 2 children. The first one seems to side with dad and is being rude to her, the younger child though largely confused seems to be on her side.

Is Jocelyn right?

What is the solution, divorce or reconcilliation?

16yrs just one slap & all these fuss!! our mothers took way more than this & they turned out well(I also know of some tragic/fatal cases)


Reconciliation is the way forward, she should take anti-purge pills whenever her verbal onslaught diahorrea wants to start, maybe that will calm the man & situation

DrummaBoy: ^^^^

It is responses like the above that keep the Osteen's in business.

Observe a more adequate response from that same link and think a little deeper on the matter:

How would you respond to a God like Osteen
describes if you were a Christian dying of cancer,
or you just went through a miscarriage, or your
16-month-old child just drowned? You’d want to
spit in face of such a God. Only when we have
met the biblical God, can we truly grieve and bear
the unhappy aspects of life in a fallen world as He
walks through those dark times with us (e.g. 2
Cor. 1:1-11 ).

Bible professor and author, Daniel Wallace ,
responded to Victoria Osteen's statement with
deep concern that her view is the symptom of a
much larger problem:

"Some of the most blatant narcissistic blather
ever to come from a pulpit can also be laid at
their [the Osteens'] feet. Not only narcissistic, but
also blasphemous. One has to wonder how a
megachurch in the buckle of the Bible belt can go
on and on without the congregants waking up and
smelling what’s being shoveled in their direction.
If Lakewood Church is any indication of the
biblical literacy, genuine devotion to Christ, and
fellowship of the saints of the American
evangelical church, we are in serious trouble."

"The evangelical church in America needs
corporate self-reflection and corporate
repentance. How we treat one another, how we
honor God, what our understanding of and
commitment to the gospel is, and how we
measure true success all need a serious overhaul.
The root problem seems to be twofold: the
marginalization of the word of God and the
‘buddyization’ of Jesus Christ."

Pls kindly answer the questions I asked?

DrummaBoy: What's your thoughts on this?

"I just want to encourage every one of us to realize when we obey God, we're not doing it for God—I mean, that's one way to look at it—we're doing it for ourselves, because God takes pleasure when we're happy. That's the thing that gives Him the greatest joy. So, I want you to know this morning: Just do good for your own self. Do good because God wants you to be happy. When you come to church, when you worship Him, you're not doing it for God really. You're doing it for yourself, because that's what makes God happy Amen?" (The congregation applauds) - Victoria Osteen.

^^^
That's the stupidest thing I ever heard - Bill Cosby.

www.crosswalk.com/blogs/christian-trends/victoria-osteen-takes-worship-of-god-to-new-low-it-s-all-about-you.html?fb_action_ids=10152623264883632&fb_action_types=og.comments&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=%5B711823402225978%5D&action_type_map=%5B%22og.comments%22%5D&action_ref_map=%5B%5D

If tomorrow you decide to stop praying to God or worshipping him, does that stop him from being God?? If No, then you'll see that it is you who it benefits & not God

He is God with or without you, so whatever you do, its for your own good. I guess that's what the thrust of the quote is all about

if you exercise yourself in Godliness who benefits, you or God

If you flee from fornication, who benefits, you or God

if you reject salvation, who looses? You or God??

PS: the reason a Christian should go to church or worship God isn't because of what he stands to gain or benefit but because that's the reason he was created, to worship & give glory to his maker. The beautiful thing is at the end of the day, it is him who gets blessed!!!

You are still posting, not one single thing predicted here has happened!!


Based on a prophecy I know that describes USA during the end-time tribulations, I can say that the main cause of the famine will be serious drought, coupled to the ongoing wars. The world economy will collapse and demand for oil will reduce drastically. Based on the American prophecy,I think the total collapse of world economy will be in July 2014


Chuck divides the Judgment into a three year progression. We will assume the Judgment will start in the year 2014.It will progress into an enemy occupation of America lasting seven years. At the end of the seven years, the occupying armies will be driven out.

Weatherwise the year will start with a very rainy spring.On June 9th it gets very hot and no rain with resulting crop failures

The stock market will start its fall in July and will result in one half the people being out of work with great inflation and coupled with food shortages, starvation will start

Once the 144,000 end-time Israelite evangelists are sealed in April, the angels that hold the four winds of the earth will release the winds. They will harm the land (earthquakes), the sea (tsunami caused by earthquakes) and the trees (drought--leading to famine). By April we will know the locations of Christian Israelites in the world, as the 144,000 evangelists arise


I haven't forgotten what u said about Obama, waiting for December to come

shdemidemi: You didn't have to twist Paul's words to justify what you probably don't understand in another book. He was not speaking of commanding anything to life in that book, using such chapter for such purpose will be adulterating and playing down the essence of the chapter.


My bro.. The four gospel books are not doctrines written primarily to you and I may be if you start to understand that bit, things will be clearer. These were books, Apostle Paul never saw before he started his ministry. The church as it is today was not built on what Jesus told the disciples but on what He said after His resurrection.

The four gospels are not the New Testament, they are the link between the old and the new. The New Testament kick started in full throttle after Christ rose, this brought about the dispensation of the Holy Spirit.

Jesus spoke to His disciples, He gave them power to wrought miracles as proof to unbelievers and doubters that they were backed by God. Does God need to prove Himself today? No. The bible is more than sufficient.

From a Christian perspective, we were not the audience at the time Jesus was speaking these things. We can learn from everything that was said and written but they can't be practiced as if they were statements addressed to the church for practice.

If anything must be practiced today, we must learn from the doctrine of Grace which accepts, take and trust God at His Word.

Bro, no man will make a mountain move today, we must stop the deceit and start dividing the word as instructed by scriptures.

wow, you're really a dispensationalist

There is a statement that's comes to mind "God has so many kind of kids"

if God doesn't need to prove himself how then can u show him to the unbelievers? by telling him stories from a book? Will that convince him? if Paul made this statement & u believe that the Christian should practice only what happened post resurrection of Jesus, what then should the present day Christian do & say?

1 Corinthians 2:1-4

1 And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.
2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
3 And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.
4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power

should the present day Christian preach only in words or should the demonstration of the spirit & power follow?

mbaemeka: As per "God considers the heart more important than the words spoken" there could be no greater lie than that. Surely, what is to be spoken must first be believed in the heart first but (you will not experience the reality of it) until you speak it forth. Paul said with the heart man believes unto righteousness but you see he would never experience the SALVATION until he uses his mouth (Romans 10:9-10). That's what Paul taught us and Jesus had made references to it earlier when he said- If you believe in your heart (without doubting) and say with your mouth to the mountain- Move! it will.

God my dear, considers the heart first above everything

Mat15:18

8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

italo: 1

alentyno: 2

syncan: 3

pls ur posts has nothing to do with this thread, this is akin to derailing

This thread is about word of faith & not the catholic canon or dogmas

Thanks

DrummaBoy: 1

Thanks

shdemidemi: of course you are in the world, i guess you wanted to say you are not of the world.

You ain't immune to world challenges bro, like Paul told Timothy, he told you this too -
2 Tim 1
8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;

Salvation is of the soul. Your flesh is still of the adamic nature and subject to the elements of the world. The rapture will get us new bodies that will not be subject to any corruption.

Someone wrote the above earlier

Galatian4:1-4
1 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.
3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law

in the light of ur post & the above quote, can u explain what Paul meant with the scripture I quoted especially the bolder part & the following verse?

Still expecting answers to my previous question

shdemidemi: Because we do have things called 'signs'. We don't pitch our tents at the signs when traveling, they only help to navigate us to our destination. In this case, creation of the church was the mission, and the miracles were the signs leading the people to the truth.

Paul did not ask anyone to try what he tried, his teachings was centered around God's grace. He never encouraged any new revelations or supernatural experiences like he had, rather he warned them to stick to what they learned through him. Titus will automatically become a false teacher if he adds his personal experiences to what Paul had taught him. In other words, any personal experience will remain personal and not a standard or an addendum to the word of God.




The job of the Holy Spirit was to teach us the truth- that was done through doctrine

His job is also to store in our heart(soul life) the truth that we have learned.

At the initiation of the Holy Spirit, gifts were given. We know from the history of the Jews and by the Word that the Jews only believe in signs, these signs were given so they will be of no excuse. Even with the signs, they refused the message which happens to be the main essence for miracles.

Jesus never said the present christian will have these powers, He was speaking to His apostles at the time. I think we must realise that Paul was not just making up words especially in that book of Romans where he explained what it means to be a christian and who a christian really is. He was actually a mouth piece of the risen Christ. I believed him when he said he was taught by Christ(risen) unlike the rest who learned through Jesus(earthly).

things are a little bit clear, but in the quest for further clarification

1. Should present day Christian act on James instruction in the face of sickness

2. Do u believe in speaking in tongues for the present day Christian

3. Those gifts of the Holy Spirit was for the apostle not for the present day Christian

4. If Jesus empower the apostles to go teach all nations & gave them those power how will the present day Christian preach the gospel without such empowerment

thanks, I await answers

shdemidemi: The epistles represent the actual doctrine to be practiced by christians.

Herein lies my confusion, if I'm to practice the doctrines why can't I emulate Paul with respect to the snake bite & other things


you still haven't explained what Jesus meant & the application of the gifts of the Holy Spirit in the life of the present day Christian

Jesus said lay hands on the sick, they will recover, you said the sick should go for drugs

James said we should call the elders to pray for the sick

Do u now see my confusion

pls shed more light on this

shdemidemi: like you have rightly quoted, countless supernatural miracles and experiences happened in the past before the bible(doctrine) ever became available. There were countless signs from Genesis leading to the gospel of Jesus Christ. We must come to the knowledge that the stories written aforetime aren't written to be practiced but were written to show us the different dimensions of God.

@ the bolded, do you mean old testament times or the acts of the apostles, including the epistles or what

If you or me get bit by a snake today, it is only logical for us to seek medical help else we die.

so if i decide not to seed medical help and look up to God, i will die

pls can you then explain "in my name they shall lay hands on the sick, they shall recover and also the gifts of the spirit, especially the ones that talk about the miracles and healing

i really need to understand this, i haven't heard it in this light before

can i as a christian, walk in the miraculous the apostles walked in?

check 1 kings 15;11 properly, you might have quoted wrong.

thanks, i did quote wrong

Candour: Actually while this is not an attempt to glorify abuse (its just inevitable that every action bears its real names), it's necessary to correct your impression about Martin Luther. The great reformer insulted the popes and other RCC leaders more than whatever abuse they receive now. See examples

"Great thieves go Scott-free, as the Pope and his crew."

"False preachers are worse than deflowerers of virgins."

"The Pope is a mere tormentor of conscience. The assembly of his greased and religious crew in praying was altogether like the croaking of frogs, which edified nothing at all."

"Since then your sere Majesty and your Lordships seek a simple answer, I will give it in this manner, neither horned nor toothed. Unless I am convinced by the testimony of the Scriptures or by clear reason (for I do not trust either in the pope or in councils alone, since it is well known that they have often erred and contradicted themselves), I am bound by the Scriptures I have quoted and my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and I will not recant anything, since it is neither safe nor right to go against conscience. May God help me. Amen."

(Reply to the Diet of Worms, April 18, 1521)

You can see more at
http://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/29874.Martin_Luther?page=4

There is no way you won't ruffle feathers or exchange words whenever you try to challenge entrenched doctrines because humans are wired to resist change and truth and would do so violently. Not all change is good however which is why in my early posts to you, I encouraged you to do a diligent study alongside and judging from the website on church deception which you posted, its very obvious you're taking it seriously. No one has it all but there are fundamental errors that hit at the foundation of the christian faith e.g "that Christians are gods and have the same faith and creative ability as God" which should give us concern.

Every error no matter how 'little' is bad and every doctrine must be rechecked in the light of scripture.

Cheers

thanks for this, but what has become of the lutheran movement? are all their teaching correct based on Gods word?

cant someone else also step up to insult them based on their wrong doctrines?

we know in parts, we should try to correct in love and most importantly pray for the erring ones be it pastor or laymen

BabaGnoni: ^^^
Everyone apart from you, can tell the Shakespeare wasn't for you or about you
so I wouldn't know about been in a literature class

Anyway, you can see, the 21st century miracles inclusion statement was deliberate
(i.e. you too noticed, I knew it's hard a truth to swallow,
which is why you unearthed and/or exploded the evidence trail I left on that post)

Do you really feel like slapping the daylight out? Is slapping still in vogue?
Ah, I think I know where such slapping once happened and now can guess how this inspiration came up.

who then was the shakespeare meant for or what was the use? you were responding to my post, so what was i supposed to think

please provide the link of the evidence trail you left, maybe i missed them

I'm not a member of LFC and i don't listen to his teachings

Please provide the quote and link about the below allegations you made:
- your attitude is one of "take what i say or leave it, don't ask me questions"
- its one of i know better than you and i have come to show you your errors, accept it and don't question me
- everyone who doesn't seem to agree with you or your line of thought has missed it in your own judgement

I'm sure you did comprehension exercises in school, after reading an article or essay and you are asked to state the tone of the writer, i hope you do know that the tone of the writer is gotten from the general writeup and not a particular line so you asking for a link is akin to asking for a line in an article that tells the tone of the writer

same thing with determining the thrust of an article, it cannot be deduced from one line but from the feel of the whole writeup, thats how i came about ur attitude too

shdemidemi: @mbaemeka

I think the misconception we have as a church today is mixing our biological life with our soul life.
Genesis 2
7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.


A man is made up of the combination of these two, meaning a man is not complete without a soul life neither is he complete without a biological life. Our biological life is linked directly to the world, it responds to medicine, hence science keeps unraveling whatever is connected to our biological life. On the other hand our soul life is linked to God, it responds to true doctrine and nothing else.

Therefore, when a christian fall ill, it makes biblical sense to go by the way of medicine (medicine isn't from the devil). Therefore any preacher whose teachings are rooted and directed to the biological life is most likely a false teacher.

Acts 28:3-6
3And when Paul had gathered a bundle of sticks, and laid them on the fire, there came a viper out of the heat, and fastened on his hand. 4And when the barbarians saw the venomous beast hang on his hand, they said among themselves, No doubt this man is a murderer, whom, though he hath escaped the sea, yet vengeance suffereth not to live. 5And he shook off the beast into the fire, and felt no harm. 6Howbeit they looked when he should have swollen, or fallen down dead suddenly: but after they had looked a great while, and saw no harm come to him, they changed their minds, and said that he was a god.

paul was bitten by a poisonous snake, he didnt go the way of medicine but got healed divinely


1kings15:11
11And, behold, the acts of Asa, first and last, lo, they are written in the book of the kings of Judah and Israel. 12And Asa in the thirty and ninth year of his reign was diseased in his feet, until his disease was exceeding great: yet in his disease he sought not to the LORD, but to the physicians.

so can you explain why it was pointed out that Asa turned not to the lord but the physicians and just incase you want to say that this is the old testament, as in it doesn't apply to the christian, kindly explain what paul meant in Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

so what are we to learn from this Asa case(pertaining to his health issue)

when martin luther went against the catholic church pointing out the 75 thesis, was that how he insulted the leaders of the day, where is the lutheran movement today and in how many areas have they also missed it or are you telling me, the lutheran movement has all of its doctrine correct

I was a roman catholic and i left there 18years ago, i know the catholic church has a lot of wrong doctrine but never for once have i called the pope or the priest false teacher even though alot of its teachings are wrong

Now you people have arrived, you know who has the anointing and who doesnt have the anointing, calling pastors name, men and women you didnt call, if a pastor is erring, isnt it your duty as a christian to pray for that one? with all the the ranting on the media on the COZA scandal, what came out of it? did the pastor drop dead? did the church growth suffer? God has a way of dealing with his own

cant you show the truth without insults and calling of names?

Dont you know the atrocities the church committed during the dark ages with and in the name of God, isnt the church still standing today with alot of reformation?

we know your type, you claim to correct an error, you start up ur own church or house fellowship or whatever you choose to call it, years later you go into oblivion or deep into some many errors

continue you hear, continue

BabaGnoni: https://s14.postimg.org/3w0e6gk3l/nope_Not.gif

"Let me see some more.

The purpose you undertake is dangerous.
Why, that’s certain.
'Tis dangerous to take a cold, to sleep, to drink;

but I tell you, my lord fool, out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.

The purpose you undertake is dangerous,
the friends you have named uncertain, the time itself unsorted,
and your whole plot too light for the counterpoise of so great an opposition.

Say you so, say you so?
I say unto you again, you are a shallow, cowardly hind, and you lie.
What a lack-brain is this!

By the Lord, our plot is a good plot as ever was laid,
our friends true and constant—a good plot, good friends, and full of expectation;
an excellent plot, very good friends.

What a frosty-spirited rogue is this!"
- Shakespeare's King Henry IV 2.3

Nope, not doing any of the sort, sorry to disappoint

You were warned, earlier on this thread, page 10 to be precise, not to be sucked in by mbaemeka's cunning and deceitful nature:
(i.e. "... I sure and sincerely hope you aren't taking heed of mbaemeka or paying any attention to Image123..."
https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/10#25250431)

You were warned because of mbaemeka's "fight tooth and nail" style of posting
This bad habit makes him to disturbingly descend into the gutter for cheap below the belt assaults
Make no mistake, from the onset, his mission and purpose on the thread were to be 100% vindictive and personal
To post that which is irrelevant and unconnected to the thread.

Sincerely want to believe you haven't descended that low as mbaemeka in his concerted attempts
(e.g. like him doctoring or falsifying quotes among a bunch of other things)

mbaemeka seems to have a leave of work or something of the sort,
so with this much time to burn, decided to run through the thread like a bull in a china shop

By the way, fabricating a quote which is non existent on this thread and/or nowhere said or found on it
(i.e. no link of the quote is anywhere on this thread)
is tantamount to taking a sly sip of gutter water offered by mbaemeka

mbaemeka is leading you down a road, to begin a journey you aren't prepared, ready or capable to go

Do you know why mbaemeka repeatedly calls out your ID?
Well, for starters, he is bad news and not good for your health
He has sensed or figured you will take his juicy and tantalising bait.
The moment, you nibbled on the bait and get hooked,
the next item on his plan, is to reel you in, to play Russian roulette.
He is playing a potentially lethal game with you.
I will advise that you carefully take his "weapon" down from pointing at your head,
safely turn it away from you and gently hand it back to him,
then climb out of the gutter where he's at and stay way clear of him.
Out of danger, we pluck safety.

PS: About "The law of God - Eat of every other Tree bar the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil"
Refer to Deuteronomy 8:3 and Matthew 4:4 for more details on how a law or command is constituted

CAN YOU IMAGINE, A LENGTHY PIECE OF CRAP TO A SIMPLE QUESTION

you just touched a nerve!! if you never made that statement or if what i asked wasnt true, a simple no would have sufficed but rather you are posting images and Shakespeare, am i in a literature class?

haven't i made my motive clear enough that i want to learn, i dont know mbaemeka from adam and here you are writing all sought

you keep making reference to the bereans and here i'm asking question and all i get is this

your attitude seems to be akin to the same preachers you bash ie you fault them cause you say they cant ask them questions but here you are reeking of the same thing

all the questions i have asked where backed with scriptures but your attitude is one of "take what i say or leave it, dont ask me questions"

you still havent answered me on who Jesus was referring to when he said "these signs shall follow them that believe, in my name they shall lay hands on the sick......" because you said its not for the 21st century christain. i'm sure in your mind, its take it or leave

so how are you different from the people you are faulting

if i could see you face to face, i would have given you a piece of my mind arrrrgggghhhhhh

i think you all should close this thread and point everybody to www.deceptioninthechurch.com,[virtually everything has been covered here] so that we will know where you are getting your info from, rather than all this almighty revelations you seem to be sharing"

your attitude DISGUSTS ME!!! its one of i know better than you and i have come to show you your errors, accept it and dont question me

everyone who doesnt seem to agree with you or your line of thought has missed it in your own judgement

I FEEL LIKE SLAPPING THE DAYLIGHT OUT OF YOU!!!!



that you said the following

but if you're referring to taking authority, stepping or trampling on snakes and scorpions etc (i.e. Luke 10:19 or Mark 16:18),
well, then you're in for a shocker because those verses are not meant for or addressed to 21st Christians
shdemidemi this meat is too tough for some to chew, your comments on this is needed desperately here please

and

Except Jesus is on Earth again, one won't see a sliced off ear or cut off leg put back on
Putting back limbs, recreating limbs etc will happen as miracles in the medical arenas

you ought to be flogged for these statements, this is blasphemy

this was enough for me to run away from you but i felt we know in parts and there are things i can learn, so let me go on but now i have to run

BabaGnoni: Eve slept with the Serpent

pls is this really true? I like to know about this, u know some of us still hold on to what we were taught in Christain religious studies, it was u guys thst gave me another insight about the Tower of Babel

mbaemeka: I am getting bored. If I see anything worth responding to I might.

The law of God- Eat of every other Tree bar the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Towel of Babel- is mythical

Eve slept with the Serpent.

Medical improvements in Hearing aides and attachments for eyes and legs is what Jesus meant by those who believe in him will do greater miracles.

Paul called himself a wretched man.

Jesus calling the blaspheming Jews Gods then later he is allowed to say not you.

Satan is easily god over the world and Christians are subject to him till we get to heaven.


Hahahahahaha hahahahaahahahaha...and more and more ludicrous statements and lies.

Pls who said the bolded & can I get the link to it?

nora544: You forgot Adeboye who told his followers that he need money that he can build his new big church and that it is mandatory to build this church.
he is not better than oyedepo and pst chris and all the other ones.

You're missing the point, I'm not here to make comparisons, the Man you just mentioned talked about the building project during a camp meeting, ie he was talking to his members

What the disclaimer means is, u won't find them asking for funds from non ministry members or from avenues not restricted to their congregation

Some folks hearing about this project, will begin to setup Facebook pages, bbm, what app etc to solicit for funds

This is what the disclaimer is for & the objective of my post was to point this out & not on whether the practice of soliciting for funds from the members was wrong or right

Image123: David Oyedepo Ministries International Inc says
CAUTION!!!
Please know that this ministry or the Bishop or
Pst. Mrs. Faith Oyedepo will NEVER ask you to
"sow seeds", or "give to an orphanage" or pay
into an account.

This is not a lie please, this disclaimer is for people who watch or know them via the media, Internet, tv etc

The reason being certain people duplicate their media pages & solicit for funds, every major ministry has such disclaimer too

It doesn't mean they don't talk about sowing seeds in their churches. To buttress my point, have u heard bishop oyedepo or pst Chris, soliciting for funds on Facebook or ur local tv?

You only find that within their service as explained by one of the posters

OP & co, I hope I haven't derailed this thread o!! Nor be my fault, I nor wan lost!!!

Candour: God's promises are not subject to confessions for them to work


They're promises from God that held true whether the audience believed it, confessed it or not. Reading the scripture would boost your confidence to face the challenge and expect deliverance, not change your reality. Its the promise their in that has that capability.

Firstly thanks, I'm grateful for all ur replies, they are rich & lengthy. I'm sure it took some of ur time

pls can u throw more light on the above quote, if there are helpful links kindly provide them too

On a personal note, how do u pray?

If u found urself in the situations I gave in my post, how will u pray or go about

You said Gods word will not change ones reality but give someone confidence to face a situation? pls explain

Phew!!! 9 solid years!! How do I begin the reconstructive surgery??

I have loads of questions

Candour: .

Thanks, wonderful exposition, earnestly waiting for ur response to the answers(2posts) I provided for ur questions


Truth be told though, these are things I have believed in for a long time, it will take awhile before I readjust, but I'm up to it

Candour: .......

still on the negative confession

I'm from benin city and there are two common prefix to names here OSA(GOD) and OBA(THE OBA) and other local deities

names like igbinedion(i take refuge in edion[a local diety])

igineogun(i take refuge in ogun[a local diety])

ogunmwentin(ogun has power)

ogunkpolor(ogun is mighty)

you also have same variant but with osa(which means God) eg igbinosa or igbiniejusu(meaning i take refuge in God or jesus

now whenever anyone who bears this name is called, by answering to the call you are affirming what the name says, when a christain who professes that Jesus is lord of his life is called because he bears such name(either because thats his surname or his name or out of ignorance) whenever he answers to that name inst that confusion?

do you think his life will be straight?
James 1:8
A double minded man will be unstable in all his ways

one minute he professes that Jesus is lord of his life and the other minute he responds to his name being called which actually means "ogun has power"?

will the effect of such confusion be seen in his life?

Candour: .......

Do positive confessions have effects on Christians?

YES


if i might ask whats your definition of "positive confession"


Do they also have effect on non Christians


YES and NO


I dont know what you term as Positive confession, but to my understanding of this subject it is speaking forth Gods words, not in order for me to believe the word but an affirmation of what has been said concerning me as a child of God

hebrews13:5-6
Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

so that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me




so my definition of positive confession is saying what God has said about me in his word, so based on the above verse, because he has said, i can now boldly say

how do you explain joel 3:10
Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong

whoever or whatever this situation was referring to: why should the weak say they are strong?

if i was traveling across the sea(should my boat capsize) or found myself in an inferno or robbery, as a christian i begin to speak forth

Isiah 43:2
When thou passest through the waters, I will be with thee; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee: when thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned; neither shall the flame kindle upon thee.

2timothy1:7
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind



what do you think will happen, will my faith be built up or will fear well up in me?


the above is the reason i said they wont work for non-Christians because these promises weren't made for them but on the other hand, there is this generic law that seems to be working in the world/universe (this has been extensively captured on page 1 or so, napoleon hill and co on the power of positive thoughts), it is this one that will work for the non-christian

Candour: .......

Do negative confessions have effects on non Christians?

in my opinion YES


Does it matter that those God spoke about at Babel where immoral pagans? Or simply because the episode is in the bible, we can appropriate it as Christians?

in my opinion, it doesnt count in the sense that whether or not they were pagans, God spoke his observations and it was a generic one regardless of their state, so in today whether it is the bornagain or the unbeliever whatever he sets his mind to accomplish that he will accomplish(there are limitations though eg the sovereignty of God, the right to to use or appropriate what ever he wants to do eg the unbeliever has no business laying claims to the promises meant for the believer i.e put on the whole Armour of God-thats for the believer not the unbeliever)

proverbs 21:13

Whoso stoppeth his ears at the cry of the poor, he also shall cry himself, but shall not be heard

this is a generic word, it covers every man on earth, its not specific to the christian but to everybody, it is in this same light that i view the statement that God made with respect to the tower of babel

Gen11:6
And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.

is the above not a daily proof in the lives of men, any group, association that is united usually ends up achieving what they have set out to achieve!!

trustman: 2 Corinthians 5:21 Contemporary English Version puts it this way:
"Christ never sinned! But God treated him as a sinner, so that Christ could make us acceptable to God".


My complete post is as follows:


First, let’s look at an Old Testament prototype – the Day of Atonement (Leviticus16) and indeed all the other animal sacrifices. The animals involved did not become the sinners. They were only ‘imputed’ with the sins of the people. The animals died the death the people deserved even though they committed no sin directly.

On the cross, Jesus died for our sins. In other words he died the death we all deserve because "the wages of sin is death" (Romans 6:23). He paid the penalty for every sin ever committed. He was treated as if he was guilty of mankind's sins. The sins of mankind were judged in him on the cross. That is the sins of mankind were charged to the impeccable humanity of Christ. That DID NOT MAKE him a sinner. He remained holy all through.

That is why i said again:

In addition, the One mankind sinned against is God not the devil. God did not and still does not owe the devil any payment. Therefore to claim that the devil was in anyway involved in the resolution of mankind's sin problem is completely unfounded.

As for the rest of your post i hope my complete initial posting above should have put it in proper perspective.

how do u explain Galatians 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree

How was he made a curse for us?

I checked about 13 translations for 2corin5:21, they all said "he was made sin"

DrummaBoy: Forgive my answering this late. I was hoping to post after trustman whose post you quoted. I have a quote from a website that answers your question directly. I will paste the quote here but I request that you go to the link and read the whole article. The discussion was on Jesus Spiritual Death:

One must distinguish between what is
didactic (meant for instruction, and in
this instance: biblical doctrine and
theory), and what is narrative as in the
example of Matthew's account of Jesus'
death. When Matthew records the words
of Christ, "My God, My God, why hast
thou forsaken Me?" (Mat. 27:46) he does
this as the account to what transpired
before the eyes of witnesses, and not as
a teaching on the atoning work of Christ.
In his book Did Jesus Die Spiritually?,

Hobart E. Freeman writes,
What are we to make of our Lord's
statement "My God, My God, why hast
thou forsaken Me?" First, this cry of
despair was not merely spontaneous, but
Jesus was well aware that He was
reciting a quotation from a prophetic
passage, Psa. 22:1. King David first
uttered these words in the midst of
suffering trials. But these words also
have an application to the Messiah, as do
numerous other Old Testament passages.
[Hobart E. Freeman, Did Jesus Die
Spiritually? (Warsaw, Ind.: Faith
Ministries and Publications, n.d.), p.
39.].

I would advise one read Psalm 22 if
not entirely certain what its content is
for personal clarification.
Psalm 22 is entirely prophetic, having
reference to the crucifixion of Christ.
Jesus truly in agony in Psalm 22
identifies Himself as the One of whom
the prophetic Psalm spoke. Such
prophetic statements are foreordained
expressions to fulfill the Old Testament
prophets predictions.


An interesting but flawed illustration
used by many Bible teachers to describe
the separation between Father and Son
is the picturesque explanation of how the
Father had to turn His head from His
Son when the sins of the world were
dumped on Him. Psalm 22, however,
repudiates this illustration by stating
that exactly the opposite happened; the
Father did not turn away from His Son,
but looked upon Him with care.
" For he hath not despised nor abhorred
the affliction of the afflicted; neither
hath he hid his face from him; but when
he cried unto him, he heard." (Psa.
22:24)

Please take your time to read Psalm 22 and see what the author above is saying. Verse 1, where he exclaimed why has God forsaken him, was the anguish cry of a suffering man. It all looked as if God had forsaken him. And don't we feel so too in our sufferings? But alas, verse 24 gives us the clear picture: "... nor has he turned his face away from him. When he cried he heard him." God was with Jesus, like he is with us, all through his stay on the cross. If he said to us "I would never leave you nor forsake you," he would then have been lying to forsake Jesus even if it was for a moment on the cross.

www.deceptioninthechurch.com/word-faith2.html

Wow, I need time to digest these, I haven't heard it from this angle before

Candour: Thanks sister, I still believe however that the discussion will be better suited for the end of this presentation so as not to stop the flow of this thread. It will be a discussion where we get to look at it from each other's perspective.

Also I would want to wet your appetite and that of therealMcCain by adding to his original focus. He wanted to know

If negative confessions, statements e.g I'm barren, I'm a failure etc have effects on Christians based on the scriptures you quoted.

I'll add the following

Do negative confessions have effects on non Christians?

Do positive confessions have effects on Christians? Do they also have effect on non Christians

Does it matter that those God spoke about at Babel where immoral pagans? Or simply because the episode is in the bible, we can appropriate it as Christians?

Its a discussion brethren. Pls think about them and let's discuss them together.

Cheers

Thanks I'll answer them soon

trustman: WoF teachers' theory about the cross is that when Jesus died on the cross he became "sin" and was imputed with Satan's nature, abandoned by the Father

DrummaBoy: ...

2corinthian5:21
21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him

I have been taught that what separates the unbeliever from the believer is their nature. The sinner has the nature of sin which is of the devil while the Christian has the nature of Christ.

Does this verse not show or prove that Jesus became sin for our sakes i.e that the sin of mankind was laid on him


Mark15:34
And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Wasn't Jesus abandoned by God at this point?