Nannymcphee's Posts
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jdilight:Pls can you give me 3 New Testament scriptures that admonishes us as Christians to Tithe Paul introduced Christianity to the gentile world, how come he didn't teach them to tithe? you insist that the church will be spread through tithing! the Catholics don't have tithe as a doctrine, neither is it contained in their dogma/canon law! How come they have spread throughout the world? If tithing is this important, we ought to have numerous examples in the New Testament |
Gombs, I'm lost o, since you're using a PC, kindly open Midas touch II thread, take your time post all the chapters there, then provide the link here, so that folks can continue from that one it's just a suggestion |
BabaGnoni: |
BabaGnoni:It was a rookie mistake indeed, I only extracted that becos I wanted to get your attention & since it was attributed to you Another reason was, I believed you made that statement considering the "heresy's" you had put up there, I found a lot of those things strange & wrong, so it wasn't difficult for me to believe you could say such. though I still don't agree on some of your point like "greater works" & "these signs shall follow them that believe... Not being for present day Christians etc" Now I have a better understanding about "quote" |
WinsomeX: @nannymcphee, did you quote BabaGnoni or you simply provided a statement under his name following the accusations leveled against him by Bidam and mbaemeka? Please, be honest about this; we will all stand to give account of our words before God one day.There is no need for the "honest"line, why should I lie I initially quoted mbaemeka, then singled out the line & quoted BabaGnoni, to get his attention he responded by writing alot of stuffs, I called crap & only gave scriptural backing for the first question I asked in mbaemeka's post He also added this By the way, fabricating a quote which is non existent on this thread and/or nowhere said or found on itSo I'll take it that this line was in response to the eve slept with the serpent since he answered the other question Read thru the page Gombs just referenced, you will see everything I think it will be helpful if BabaGnoni, should come out & clear the air, once & for all Did he ever make such statement? Even if he didn't, is he of the opinion that eve slept with the serpent? If the answer to both question is NO, then it beats my imagination how such accusation can be made against him |
Gombs:You have already answered me, I wasn't ok with ur response, responding would have derailed the thread. though I asked if I should create a separate thread. |
Gombs, I haven't forgotten about the questions I asked about CE. I just want you to be done here before I pick that up again mbaemeka, Image123, I want to know your stance on firstfruit taught by Hagin? |
Gombs:I have been silent since because of the bickering. It is too much, one can even get lost, this thread was supposed to be on the Midas touch & maybe the subject of prosperity not covered by the book. Gombs you are still of the opinion that the so called "anti WOFers" have problem with giving(because of the bolded part) you are wrong & I stand to be corrected, I give, I believe in giving & also believe that love should be one's motivating factor. My stand on the Christian giving is summarized in 2 Corinthians 9. I have also seen from scripture how God intervened on behalf of men as they gave sacrificially & how he also moved without them giving(eg extension of hezekiah's life & miracle oil with the widow) Striking a balance between the above lies on the leading of the Holy Spirit & not some man made formular At this junction, I want to call on WinsomeX vooks Candour BabaGnoni Lobeez shdemidemi & all the "anti WOFer's to state their stance on the Christian giving, so that we all know where we stand on the subject for posterity sake Thanks |
WinsomeX:yes i did, you're the one who didnt reply |
WinsomeX:Pls have you gotten the book |
pickabeau1:https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/ |
Gombs:My brother, why you dey fall my hand na? Hagin says first fruit isn't about money in the NT Testament!! Why then do you give money as first fruit?? |
[quote author=Gombs][/quote]Calm down, it appears they are joking with you or they didn't understand what you said awaiting answers to my questions |
@Gombs by the way some present day Christians now say that: giving to the poor is just lending to God, that God will pay back but without interest, i.e its more profitable to give to ministers/church than the poor)The above quote was by me in the thread that gave birth to this one, compare it with Hagin's quote below(mind you, I didn't write the above then as a result of Hagin's book but as a result of the prevalent belief system in my church) It grieves my spirit to hear that there are some ministers teaching—or at least giving the impression—that giving to them personally will bring a greater blessing to the donor than giving to the poor or supporting the local church's ministry to the poorThen compare it with yours ( by the way some present day Christians now say that: giving to the poor is just lending to God,that verse means, God will pay for the one who couldn't pay back, not that the borrower is lending to God. that God will pay back but without interestDoes the above make sense to you? i.e its more profitable to give to ministers/church than the poor)you are funny ma'am... thanks for the laugh |
Wow, I thought the tempers had been cooled, what happen na? @Gombs, pls what is your understanding of first fruit as explained by Hagin? The concept of firstfruits is not used in the New Testament in reference to financial giving. There is not even the vaguest hint of it by any New Testament writer in reference to money or the support of ministersThe above is Hagin's words, what do you understand by this? based on the above quote, why should I as a Christian give firstfruit(my first salary, first business profit) since they are monetary? |
Gombs:Try pasting it into Microsoft word first, highlight maybe 6-10 lines per time That's how I did mine, there was no repition Though it wasn't a smooth process, it kinda of lags |
Gombs:Aren't you using a PC, why the typing? just copy & paste, it's easier that way |
@Gombs, thanks for your response, in due time I'll respond your your reply. let me allow you continue or should I create another thread for that? This is a faceless forum, I just want to know how old are you(?no offense intended) |
My position on first fruit I see it as a thing of honor & not compulsion. lord this is my first profit for my business or salary & I'm giving you half, quarter or everything or whatever amount you see fit It could be at the beginning of the year, middle, quarter or anytime u set It could be your first proceed from the house you leased out, anything & whatever that is the first of that thing you want to give to God. Eze44:30 And the first of all the firstfruits of all things, and every oblation of all, of every sort of your oblations, shall be the priest's: ye shall also give unto the priest the first of your dough, that he may cause the blessing to rest in thine house. The above scripture is what's used to preach first fruit on why it should &must be dropped on the hands of a minister. In my opinion, this has no relevance to the NT Christian I also believe that I can take this first profit or salary & use it in setting someone up in business or pay school fees It's more or less, lord thanks for giving me this job, I'm using this funds to help someone get a job/setup business just as you have given me. To me that's honoring God too CC:openmine |
My position on tithing similar to that of first fruit, I also see it as a thing of honor. it will bug me if I receive 100 from God & I can't give him anything at all at the end of the month, I check what I spent on myself & check what I spent on charity & ministry. It has to be commensurate, if it isn't, It pricks my heart I'm not of the opinion that it must be 10%, it could be more, it could be less but becos there is a mention of 10%, in the scriptures. I'll peg it at 10 Bottom line for me, end of month give something back to God as an act of worship, honor,adoration & thanksgiving after giving this 10%, do I rest on my oars or give more, it depends on the need & how buoyant I'm at that point There have been times I didnt give my tithe for that month or any ministry need for that month, I don't really like such be becos I see it as indiscipline cos I didn't give excuse for other things but when it came to that of God, I'm giving excuses CC:openmine |
@Gombs I'm grateful to God that our nerves have come down, things are a bit calm. I saw ur points & also the things you listed that are being practiced in CE. remember I'm still there, I'll give my position on tithe & first fruit but just want to ask(no offence intended) in CE, we practice 1.giving to get 2.naming your seed 3.hundredfold return 4.debt breaking/money multiplying anointing I don't agree with all Hagin wrote in that book & I also know u might have ur own disagreement but what's your take on these 4 points I raised above, am I wrong or I'm exaggerating? Do you agree with me that once there is challenge in any area of our life, the first response any CE member will give is "have u sown seeds?" yes we pray but without the seed aspect, any leader will tell you it's not yet complete Am I correct to say that it's a shame to say you don't have in CE & that we are taught & encouraged to live a live of wealth & opulence? am I correct that there is too much emphasis on money, giving, Patnership in CE? What's your take on "miracle money"(lol, you know what I'm talking about), in your opinion is it biblical? with all the "too much money" u know na, "too much grace" how come the ministry still has needs, sometimes owe staffs salary, still have uncompleted church projects, owe for rhapsody etc Will you agree with me that the needy/poor in our midst(pls don't tell me we don't have them) are "sometimes" neglected, but there is much emphasis on inner city & regions beyond or sending bibles or relief materials to folks that are far away Gombs, I'll appreciate if you give answers with explanation & invite others who are in house to answer this, maybe I'm the one missing it These questions are not meant to cause strife & they are strictly meant for anyone in CE on this thread, I'll appreciate if this request of mine is honored. Thanks |
@Gombs, as listed in chapter 6, can you kindly list the ones you have been practicing? I recall you telling pickabeau1, that "in your church they dont boast"(i recalled this because if you could tell her you folks dont boast, you should be able to also say which one your church practices ) kindly list those that are being practiced in your church Thanks PS:welldone, I know it wasnt easy to post all of that, the little I did wasnt funny. the highlighting on that particular pdf file isnt smooth |
Gombs: PastorKun: Luke 23:11Pls in this context who are those that dressed him? Dressing him:who did the dressing? vooks:With the above, u mean u still cant see? Well I understand what's going on, because pastor did not say, you're confused despite the fact that all I have written & others have quoted is written black & white in the scriptures Only God knows what would have happened if, we didn't quote the verses. the verses & explanation are so clear, see why I pray for light & scales to fall off from ur eyes If pastor had taught this, you'll be screaming rhema & talking about it If u can't get this, this matter is simple comprehension, how then can u get other things Whether it was rags or not, they would still gone ahead to share it, in fulfillment of the scripture |
Gombs:John19:23-24 23 Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took his garments, and made four parts to every soldier a part AND also his coat now the coat was without seam, woven from the top throughout. 24 They said therefore among themselves, Let us not rend it, but cast lots for it, whose it shall be: that the scripture might be fulfilled, which saith, They parted my raiment among them, and for my vesture they did cast lots. These things therefore the soldiers did. Jesus garment was torn into four parts & shared amongst the soldiers, it was the coat that was not torn, that's what they were referring to. They didn't want to tear the coat hence the casting of lots. but the garment was shared. Check the italicized line Oh thanks for the insults, unfortunately I'm not dyslexic neither I'm I twisting scriptures |
[size=14pt]Jesus Wore Nice Clothes[/size]here again is a statement that people throw around without looking at the scripture, just because a minister said it. the reason they gambled for his coat was in fulfillment of scriptures and not because of the quality of the clothes Psalms 22:18 (AMP) They part my clothing among them and cast lots for my raiment (a long, shirtlike garment, a seamless undertunic). [John 19:23, 24.]) (ASV) They part my garments among them, And upon my vesture do they cast lots. (CEV) They took my clothes and gambled for them. (KJV+) They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture. (LITV) They divide My garments among them, and they made fall a lot for My clothing. (YLT) They apportion my garments to themselves, And for my clothing they cause a lot to fall. so whether or not the clothes were clean or dirty or stinking, they would have still casted lots and have it shared, SO THAT THE WORD OF GOD MIGHT BE FULFILLED Would Roman soldiers cast lots for the tattered and torn rags of a beggar or the shabby, worn clothes of a poor man? No, of course notAs for the above, this word will come into play MEMORABILIA 1: things that are remarkable and worthy of remembrance 2: things that stir recollection or are valued or collected for their association with a particular field or interest serial killers are known to do this and they dont pick that which is most expensive besides what benefit will a shredded piece of quality designers cloth material of a condemned criminal be to a roman soldier? bottom line: Jesus garment was torn and lots were casted for it, for the sole purpose of fulfilling scriptures |
pickabeau1:Just get the ebook & study at your pace, rather than waiting for it piece by piece below is the source link vooks:this is the link, the size is about 4.58mb |
the reason why we are in this state today is because the pentecostal circle has taught the minister infallibility "the pastor cannot be wrong in what he teaches" so when you question any teaching, you are then asked who are you to question such? what do you know? are you saying you know more than so and so? when a ministers teaches wrong, people have a hard time believing its wrong, how could he be wrong, this man that has done great and mighty works(I have a video showing the great billy graham saying "JESUS ISNT THE ONLY WAY", A lot of folks will not dispute that simply because of the mans record, afterall when it comes to issue of altar call, i dont think anybody beats his record. I didn't want to comment here but i'm forced to [size=14pt]Was Jesus Homeless?[/size]the above quote is irrelevant, the scriptures never showed that the any of the prophets were homeless or didnt have a place of abode(whether its outright ownership or rent). whats important is that they had a place to sleep. if the disciples had houses, why will Jesus be homeless? People who use this point to buttress that Jesus was rich because he had a house normally use it to describe ownership and not tenancy. Jesus was not a pauper, neither did he live a live of penury, he had his needs met supernaturally and for crying out loud he was a carpenter(so he wasnt without skill) BUT never did he for once live in OPULENCE as the present day church will want all christian to live in As for this How does someone have his "own town," his "home town," and his "own city" unless he lives there? And how does he live there unless he has a place to live?people that live under the bridge can also say this, afterall should they travel and are returning to that town, the above is what they will say |
The link I provided contains what BabaGnoni pasted in the post before this, it also contains a critique of other false teachings by Hagin that he didn't correct That being said, we should focus on the correction on the prosperity message, maybe there are other corrections(I don't know) I earlier stated it that everyone seems to be getting it wrong in one area or the other interpretation of scriptures also has to do with your level in Christ, Paul said when he was a child, he spake like a child & when he became man, he put away childish things Imagine what ones interpretation of the scriptures will be as a child, it is my opinion that though we have same Holy Spirit but our interpretation of scriptures will never be the same because we are different level of walk with God God told Moses that his fathers(abraham, isaac etc) knew him as elshaddai, but by my name Jehovah was I not know to them, I can say that a new aspect/dimension of God was being introduced to Moses yes everything has been made plain to us in Christ but not all will take out time to search it out, some are graced in the area of teaching & exhortation. Etc I wasn't there when hagin wrote his book, neither was I in the meeting & I cannot arrived at the conclusion that it was done with an sellfish motive. We should learn from this correction by him while we seek correction on his other teachings from other minister Paul said we know in parts(inspite of the fact that we have the Holy Spirit) |
please take out time to go through this link http://kennethcopelandblog.com/2008/11/11/rev-hagins-previous-rebuke-of-copeland/ |
vooks:this is the link, the size is about 4.58mb
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[size=14pt]Firstfruits[/size] Many years ago, there was a teaching on firstfruits, which went back to the Old Covenant under the Levitical Law. It focused on the fact that the firstfruits were brought to the priests personally, and that these Old Covenant priests represented a type of present-day fivefold ministers because they were anointed. A serious problem develops when we begin referring to fivefold ministers as priests. Making a New Testament application of Old Testament technicalities violates every principle of Bible interpretation, especially when there isn't a single New Testament usage of the word "firstfruits" in the context in which it is being preached by some ministers. The concept of firstfruits is not used in the New Testament in reference to financial giving. There is not even the vaguest hint of it by any New Testament writer in reference to money or the support of ministers. [size=14pt] Tithes[/size] I've heard preachers try to hammer Christians by quoting from Malachi chapter 3 saying that they are cursed if they don't pay tithes and give offerings. Obviously, this is not correct. While the people of Malachi's day were under the Law of Moses, the New Testament plainly declares that Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the Law (Gal. 3:13). Does that mean that tithing is no longer valid? Not at all. As I said in the last chapter, God's people were tithers four hundred years before the Law, and Jesus reaffirmed the validity of tithing in His teaching. In the only recorded instance of Jesus' referring to tithing, He said it should be done! But there is no curse today for not tithing. We are free from the legalistic requirements of the Mosaic Law. Is there any other consequence? Yes, if we don't tithe, we limit ourselves from receiving the blessings God has promised those who pay tithes and give offerings by faith. |
[size=14pt]Is Giving to the Poor a Good Investment?[/size] It grieves my spirit to hear that there are some ministers teaching—or at least giving the impression—that giving to them personally will bring a greater blessing to the donor than giving to the poor or supporting the local church's ministry to the poor. Again, these individuals imply that because they have a "special anointing" like Jesus, they have a gift—a Midas touch—to multiply money back to the donor and impart great blessings. Some of these ministers actually suggest that there is not much blessing in giving to the poor by quoting Proverbs 19:17:"He that hath pity upon the poor lendeth unto the Lord; and that which he hath given will he pay him again." "That's not too good an investment," they say. "Giving five dollars to a poor person is a loan to God, and He will pay you back five dollars. You get back just what you 'loaned' to God. But if you invest that five dollars in a ministry with a 'higher anointing,' you can expect a multiplied return." |
