₦airaland Forum

otipoju:
First thing I want to ask you is this.

What exactly is the Old Testament and what is the New Testament. What do they mean to you?

Let's start from this basic and educate ourselves as we proceed.

You don't need to ask. The Bible has everything about the Old and the New.

Did you read the Bible verse I typed? Read that and do more research? Ask questions when reading the Bible and the Holy spirit will guide you on the truth.

benji93:
I am sorry, but it's an error to say there were errors in the old testament. It's akin to saying God wasn't in his right senses when he established those laws. Although i certainly believe that the rules that apply may change from time to time, which is usually a function of humans and the perpetual love of God for us- We are addicted to flouting rules laid down. This is confirmed by John 3 vs 16. Now your last sentence is a serious error as well. You mentioned that the death of christ put an end to the lighting of the candles. We know that Christ died for the atonement of our sins, so it means anything that was previously done by the Isrealites for the atonement such as animal sacrifice is redundant.This doesn't even mean it's wrong to do it, but it means you are no longer bound to it. So the question is were the lighting of candles part of atonement? The answer is No. You definitely need to read your bible well. The lighting of candles was particularly part of worship. I would say though that the fact that the Isrealites did certain things does not mean we should do them. It was given to them as part of their covenant with God. So if you apply them you may not receive the blessings promised. However if the holy spirit directs you to incorporate so so so and so into your worship as part of a covenant which is the case in CCC, then as a member of that fold you must do it to reap the blessings thereof. And God in his infinte wisdom can reenact whatever rule, however he pleases in whichever dispensation. His thoughts are not our thoughts neither his ways our ways. God chose Abraham, and subsequently his decendants. Does it mean Abraham was the only one who worshipped God? We may never know cos there was no such discussion, unless the holy spirit reveals it. God does whatever pleases him. You can argue from today to tomorrow on what you think the bible is saying, and you are definitely within your rights to argue it, i nwhich case you may be partially incorrect. It's what you know. God uses people differently. He may use one one way, and another a different way. You all seem to think there's a well defined template for christians. No there isn't. There are definitely certain basic principles that a christian must abide by. And especially, if the Bible instructs you not to do something then you mustn't do it. The Bible is silent on some matters. But the fact that something wasn't mentioned in the bible doesn't mean it's wrong. So the statement that the Bible doesn't say you can do something doesn't mean it's wrong. That's why the holy spirit is important to our existense. If you are faced with issues not resolved definitivley in the bible seek the direction of the holyspirit. If the Spirit of God directs some people to worship in a certain way, so be it. May the spirit of God guide us.

You are speaking by your thoughts and reasoning matters based on just human reasoning but I spoke what God's word says.

Try read the Bible to understand what the Bible says for proper and better understanding of the position of the Bible.

Please, read Hebrews 8:7 to have a better understanding.

So, can you see that what you typed does not hold anything or reasoning?

Understand that there are many things to go with the Old when the new came into operation.

God uses people differently but does not go against what the Bible clearly has corrected. Holyspirit does not contradict the word of God rather He gives more understanding as to God's word.

Please, read your Bible well as you seem to operate on reasoning. When you dig deep into what God's word says you will have a better understanding.

I have not told you anything outside God's word.

blackboy2star:
My stand is Candle and Incense were mentioned in the bible and was never told is a bad thing to use...
According to the founder, that was what he was told to use and practice... IT can become a practice if you're told to practice it...
Jesus can operate in different ways using different means that mankind can't phantom... He used clay and saliva, He can instruct me to use snail saliva and mud also, does that make it occultic.

Candle and Incense were mentioned in the Old Testament and it ended with the Old.

Jesus never used snail and it becomes occultic if healing is gotten through animals. Christ alone is the solution

blackboy2star:
Instruction to each of his worshipers the way he wants it not a general law... Exodus 40:27 and also read about Aaron in Exodus... The book of Hebrew also talk about incense
Shalom

So, even all the others he gave wasn't a general law then?

Please, don't twist the Bible to suite your thought.


Point to me where in Hebrew, we are encouraged to keep using incense

babaolofin:
From my research, celestial members don't 'secretly' attend Pentecostal, mind the word 'secretly'. They attend without shame and restriction. Pentecostal don't want people to know or see them at Celestial Church. They come secretly when they have tough issues only to return to Pentecostal Church to give testimonies.

Your research was only carried out in your room.

Infact I have met several Cele members in pentecostal programmes who 'secretly' do this.

What testimonies? Don't be biased as I have also seen Cele members give testimonies in pentecostals and also say how they didn't get their miracles in Cele

blackboy2star:
Christ death settled all sin not cancelled the old testament... Should we now say real Pastors that God ministered to, too pray into a handkerchief for their congregation is FAKE? Since Jesus didn't talk about handkerchief...

So, are you saying we can still kill birds and other animals to attone for sins, practice an eye for an eye and tooth for tooth and many other practices in the Old testament?

Study the word of God to understand many things the coming, death and resurrection of Christ ended once and for all.

Like I keep emphasising the Bible should be the focus. Use of handkerchief should be one led by the Holy spirit and not to become a practice in Christianity.

Did you know the helm of Jesus' garment healed the girl with the issues of blood. Even Peter's shadow worked miracles. You MUST be led to do it by the Holyspirit but it MUST NEVER become a practice.

You will never see Jesus operating by same methods so we won't believe this is a practice or doctrine.

benji93:
Please be careful what explanation you provide for each activity perfomed in Cele. Your anology regarding the teaching of Jesus with respect to a candle iunder a bushel is nto quite useful. In that instance it was symbolic. The candles may not have been referring to the church. It may just have been referring to people lighting candles at night. Now the use of candles in worship is specific to Cele and in accordance to the direction of the holy spirit. Anyone can argue that could not have been the holy spirit. So many so called "christians" tell you that christians must live only according to the Bible. It's mentioned in John 21 vs 25 that Jesus Christ did so many other things- which may include the fact that he said so many other things to- that if they were written down the world would not have enough rooms to contain them. So when the holy spirit tells you to do something and it's not in the Bible, it would be foolish to argue that i won't do it cause it's not in the bible. So it ultimately comes down to this quesiton: Was that message of the Holy spirit? If the spirit of God decides to reenact certain rules in a particular fold or mandate that certain modes of worship, which may be ancient be specific to a particular fold so be it. The Naysayers may object and claim it's not biblical or unchristian. That's their problem. The ways of God are mysterious. May the spirit of God guide us.

No Sir, God is not the Author of confusion. His spirit, the Holy spirit will never contradict Himself (reference to His word)

Holyspirit will never go against God's word and create a new practice. New practices that contradicts the word of God CAN NEVER be given by the Holy spirit.

If you believed there was more to Christian practices then, the Apostles would have talked about them if they were omitted from Christ teachings.

blackboy2star:
You see why i said you should read your bible very well... Burning of incense and lightning of candle was never a general law then and if you think it was, show me the verse.

You should be the one to read your Bible as God gave the instructions for how the Candlestick stands should be and even incense burning. He gave every details on these.

Besides, the era of the first 5 Books in the Old Testament were regarded as Law.


To explain further, there are 3 eras - law, prophets and grace. We operate under the last - Grace based on the finished works of Christ.

blackmaine:
Religion is a scam

Religion could be a scam.

But being a follower or disciple of Christ has no relationship with religion

blackboy2star:
Meaning no more old testament abi? The same old testament that announce the coming of Jesus... Me, i believe in both testament...

All the best

I never said this. Here is what you should know, the New Testament wouldn't have occurred if there wasn't errors in the Old. You are to read the Old and find it's relevance in the New. If the New does not emphasise on it or explain further on it, then, it has provided an upgrade or what is called exchange of what used to be.

Christ death at the Cross settled it and put an end to the lighting of Candle on Candlestick stands and also put an end to an priest leading one to God. As the priesthood of ALL believers came to play just by the death, resurrection and ascension of Christ once and for all.

blackboy2star:
And the same bible talked about lightning of candle and burning of incense... read your bible very well

Do you know that the era of laws are gone and we operate under grace?

Do you realize that we no longer kill birds and other animals for the atonement of sins because Christ settled this once and for all?

Do you realize that the veil of the temple tore into two when Christ died, hence no more priest directing or leading one to God?

Do you realise that if the Bible wants that practice to continue, it will be emphasised?

See that it appears in the Old testament of the Bible does not mean that the practice should continue? If Christ wanted it to continue a better option of Him dying for us all wouldn't have surfaced. The Apostle would have continued the practice and would have been seen as an important part of our service to God.

Mihzwhitesutana:
Sometimes we need to understand the Bible is vast and the truth therein are limitless. I used to argue it too before till I came across Psalms 18:28 For thou wilt light my candle: the LORD my God will enlighten my darkness.

Another verses I know off hand is exodus 27:20 which says: “You shall charge the sons of Israel, that they bring you clear oil of beaten olives for the light, to make a lamp burn continually.”

Remember also in Matthew 5:15 when Jesus Wass discussing how a Christian's life should be, he said, "Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house." For him to have mentioned candles that means it has been in usage even before the Orthodox Church

The Bible has only one meaning which is the Author's intended meaning. Jesus' message on Candle has only one meaning which is let your light shine.

NovusHomo:
How come he has not joined them on the xpressway to heaven?

I tire o.... His father is like the usual bus conductor who will call passengers but will not continue with them on the journey.

Some people just type lies just to support their beliefs. The man is definitely a Cele member codely supporting his denomination.

babaolofin:
The Church is very legendary. There may be Parishes that are bad, but the pure and real Celestial Church established by SBJ Oshoffa is legendary and special from Amen Church. That Church can never die.

If care is not taken, about 70% of white garment churches members will become celestial church members in the next 20 years, it has started already.

Many Pentecostal members secretly belong to Celestial Church.

The same way many celestial members secretly attend pentecostal programmes. So, don't be one sided

blackboy2star:
Read your bible well, you will see where they lit candle and burn incense to pray to the Creator of Heaven and Earth...

The New Testament came to explain, exchange and upgrade what was found in the Old Testament. Candle lighting was in the days of the law but Christ came to make some corrections with his life by provision of grace.

Built2last:
Luke 11 from verse 2.

If He told you what to do. Why introduce what He didn't tell you. You introduce it and justify it by saying He never said we shouldn't light candles for prayers. Jesus said love little children. He didn't say you should not kill them. Have you been killing them because He never mentioned it

That's a wrong way of twisting the Bible just to justify your position. Thou shall not kill is clearly spelt out in the Bible. Remember, Christ came to preach even love. Does love include killing?

Lighting candle should have been upheld or upgraded by Christ if there was any importance to it. Also, if per chance the Bible didn't include it in any of His teachings, the Apostles should have taught about this.

If you knew the relevance of Christ death you will realize what His death settled once and for all

Mihzwhitesutana:
Show me where Jesus said we should not light candles for prayer. Are you aware Catholics too use candles

That Catholics use candles does not mean it is the standard. The Bible remains the standard for all Christian practices.

sensisosu:
I have not judged or say anything bad about other denominations. Everyone should believe whatever They decide to believe. Esin baba o gba omo la (religion of a father does not save the child)

This is a better conclusion. I never said you judged too. I only called your attention to what also happens in Cele too since you talked about the pentecostals.

aremuforlife:
Anybody can do that, that is why i said you need to verify the fold you belong to.

I can't do that. So, don't say anybody can.

aremuforlife:
Do you have any proof?
Your types are those that condemn the old testament and appraise the new testament. Celestial church of christ are transparent, you will see what they do and how they do it, except if you are at they wrong fold.

Just the way a big cross is placed in a small bottle or narrow neck container?

aremuforlife:
You failed to understand what the op meant, but choose to believe what you want to believe. You left denomination to another, you dont need to condemn them but leave them with their God.
There is a designated angel assigned to you while in the fold, when you left the fold, the angel will also depart from you.
Ccc
C&s
Are not churches without path, they have doctrines to be followed, they have rules and regulations to be followed, they have do and don't.

Please, where is this in the Bible? Biblically, every individual has his or her own guardian angel and it is not a function of any church. There are angels that oversees churches but no angel will leave an individual except if such backslides or denies Christ.

sgogungbe:
Any one who judge celestial church is judging it base on what he or she as hard about it, the church is one of the few churches I stand to worship God in. Omo oshoffa ni mi

Is Oshoffa God? I expected you to say Omo olorun ni mi? Nothing of such guarantees heaven.

sensisosu:
Thank you.. the public needs to be sensitize.. the same holier than thou Pentecostals have pastors with questionable characters.

Take away: Matthew 7:1 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged.

Well, this is biased. You of all people should know that Cele is not an exemption in this.

They believe since they are the last boat, they are the only acceptable denomination while the pentecostal are referred to as 'Amen' church. Isn't this a biased and unbiblical act?

Elvictor:
don't quote me without knowing why I replied that way, I am not against the probe by National Assembly. Amaechi has challenged them to make the documentary public, but how on Earth did they approve it without going through it properly and now coming to haunt what they agreed on earlier, don't you see those greedy dogs in that house are looking for cuts the way they usually get from NDDC.

If you go through the video, you will realize that it wasn't about looking for cut but considering National interest. Amaechi on the other hand was not ready to be transparent as possible. Rather, he resolved to blackmail and using projects to be carried out to paint the house bad against the masses. Why was he trying to avoid questioning by diverting questions that involved him to the minister of finance? Should the Minister of Finance be the right person to say the span of the project Amaechi's ministry is overseeing?

Besides, if you watched that video you will understand that both parties are aware that Chinese government releases funds to the contractor directly with the Nigerian government not touching a kobo. So, tell me where the act of looking for cut is applicable to this?

How can a minister go to the house to tutor the chairman and committee members what constitution says? The Chairman had to put him in his place by correcting his wrongs and also letting him know they have every right to enquire about details.

Tell me if in anyway there was call for secret meeting in the video you watched which may suggest seeking for cut? Everything was done in the presence of the press. Amaechi fumbled.

We need to ALWAYS consider national interest in matters than bringing in sentiments or performance in any case. That a person performs does not mean he is not prone to errors too.

Elvictor:
you are very dull and uneducated, am a Rivers man and Amaechi is the best governor of Rivers State, come rain come sun. he has done what no governor has done in Rivers State, so. go accuse your God forsaken State Governor

That's not the yardstick for National matters. Thinking this way is really wrong. The same way Fashola was seen as a super governor but didn't deliver up to expectation when he had 3 ministries merged as one to handle.

National interest is the major here not Rivers interest. If you watched the interview by the National Assembly, you will know that everything done on that floor was on National interest sake and has nothing to do with being a governor from Rivers or an APC member.

May God help us in this country for us to take National matters above any other form of interest

The Minister now receives signals from China but when asked if he was involved in the agreement, he claimed ignorance of this and passed everything to Minister of Finance. Claiming he was only involved in signing agreement with CCECC.

Now, he has signal receiving antennas from China. Na wa o....

This government keeps trying to appear nice but in the real sense keep deceiving us.

DaddyMorenike:
hunger dey catch me man of God. I need money pastor

Go and work. That he is a man of God does not mean your daily bread is in his hands. Stop ridiculing yourself all in the name of typing something.

This is one of the many reasons Nigeria is not making any progress.

NaijaRoyalty:
Not worth all the paparazzi

The money isn't directly from his pocket . He only did what he was voted to do.

No big deal

Yes, no big deal but he deserves the needed attention because amongst others he stood out. So, it is a big deal in the Nigeria we find ourselves today

DuBLINGreenb:
Nice gesture

I hope they are all functioning properly

They are not. Kindly travel down to Borno to repair them.

Someone did a good job rather than appreciate and stop at that, you still had to end it with this.


One of the many reasons Nigeria is the way she is till date

Sofistcatdmoron:
Ibo tribe always make Nigeria proud,
Unlike hushpuppy tribe

Remember, Invictus Obi is one of your people too. A Senior and professional in the game.

Slawormir:
Damnnnnn niggarrr
Isoright




Ogbeni must government subsidies every fuckkking areas of our life

We nor just want pay for anything for this country

Please, stop this.

The pandemic itself has a negative impact on the masses and when the government is expected to rise in such occasion to reduce this impact, she failed in carrying this out.

Do you know what Lagos State generates on her own? Don't you read on the pages of newspaper how resources are looted in Lagos? If the government do a 50-50 arrangement just to reduce this impact is that too much?

Salaries have been slashed and many businesses have been affected by the pandemic with the government inflicting more pains.

Tell me what this government has comfortably provided for the citizens. Please, name some for me without any issues attached to them then, I will agree with you on your point.

aguizm:
Oga be sincere to yourself, does it take a whole year to renovate a building? We the masses are the problem of this country, see the way you people are twisting facts just to defend a girl because she is the VP's daughter or because she is from your tribe.

I am neither on her payroll nor happy with the way this silly government operates.

Back to the matter, even if I dislike this present government and how deceptive they are, without any meaningful positive impact to the country as a whole, they was nowhere in her post where it was clearly stated that she supervised construction of a building. Why not be objective on this matter.