₦airaland Forum

roodest:
Nimshi! in which country do you leave where red changes thru amber then to green?!
mr man/woman, red changes directly to green!

People, Amber does NOT equal stop! RED does!
however, you have to be cautious, if the light changes to amber and your distance is the length of one or two vehicles from the light, you prolly oughta move so the guy behind doesnt kiss your ass, at regulated speeds, from that distance you would pass the light before it turns red.

roodest: na wah o!

Here, from a source that's quite reliable:

"In most countries, the sequence is green (go), amber (prepare to stop), and red (stop). In some systems, however, just before red changes to green, both red and amber are lit. It is customary for drivers to select neutral and/or use the handbrake at red lights; the additional phase is intended to give the driver time to select first gear or release the handbrake before the light turns green, but in practice is treated as an invitation to go before the green light is showing. Austrian, Israeli, and Mexican traffic lights use a flashing green 'prepare to stop' prior to the amber 'stop if safe' signal.

In the UK[2], New Zealand[3] and Canada[4], amber officially means 'stop (unless it would cause an accident to do so)' but in practice, is treated as 'prepare to stop'. In Russia, Serbia, Austria, Israel, and parts of Canada and Mexico, the green light flashes for a few seconds before the amber light comes on. The single flashing amber signal is used in the UK, Ireland and Australia at Pelican crossings. It is used in Serbia and the United States to mark places where greater attention is needed (dangerous crossings, sharp curves etc.). In Canada, a flashing amber light means "drive with caution" and is frequently combined with a flashing red light (meaning "stop" at four-way intersections. In many S.E, Asian countries (e.g. Thailand) a flashing amber light indicates a driver may proceed cautiously across a junction where signals only operate at busy periods."

If you've driven on Nigerian roads where the traffic lights're functional, it should be easy to figure which applies to the good/wonderful Nigerian roads.
.

Ukraine? Too dangerous at this time.

Many of the natives are pissed with the country; life is hard; and foreigners are easy targets.

With the prevailing conditions, a fellow with a dark shade of skin evokes little sympathy if killed by angry and /or disturbed youths. Not a pretty place at all.

http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/report/racism-on-the-rise-in-ukraine-20080710

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sayso:
"Is it a traffic offence to move when the traffic light turns from GREEN-to-YELLOW, and not RED yet?"

Please send your comments based on the NIgerian context.

Here's an answer from quite a good source:

" The sequence of traffic lights is red, red + amber (yellow), green, amber and back to red. Red + amber is a warning to get ready to go, but you mustn’t start moving until the light changes to green. Amber means stop at the stop line. You may proceed only if the amber light appears after you’ve crossed the stop line or when stopping might cause an accident. "

This applies in Nigeria.

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Current Exchange rates anyone?

I got the following from a Naija bank on 23 Feb 2003:

USD: 146
GBP: 213
EURO: 189

As of yesterday, a Bureau de Change gave a rate of N157 to the dollar.

Anyone's got exchange rate figures from other sources?

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emtar:
i agree with you on the fact that most of our financial institutions are about disengaging members of staff.

So the money generated during the shoreup of2005/06 has been spent by banks on flanboyant and liability assets.

now,i went to did research on stocks and i fond that one insurance has 28billion outstanding numbers shares.why?.

How much is the profit to make good dividend for their shareholders.

Nigerian govt should do something on this issue of high outstanding number of shares.i.e to plead for reconstuction

thanks.

Er, how will reducing the number of shares outstanding improve a company's fundamentals?? There's some advantage in administration, but share reconstruction (which is a fancy name for some simple arithmetic) isn't anything but that: share reconstruction; you may reconstruct the shares, but that's much less to say about the company itself.

And, the absolute value of the dividend isn't the important parameter; take a look at dividend yield, and other metrics as P/E, EPS and PEG.
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savesoul:

you'll hopefully return to give a report about what went down in Lagos.

First: it's a surprise you had to physically go to Lagos; your account coul've been credited with the missing funds, and you could've requested the details of the fraud to arm you against such recurring, in case you could've prevented it.

It'll be interesting to know if this was a job hatched by a corrupt member of staff of the bank.

Any unauthorised debits from your account must be investigated.

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naijaking1:
At 11.67, who knows when UBA will bottom out? Loading up maybe the only way to recoup loses from buying at 35 a couple of years ago.

Not quite that bad.

If you'd bought & held 1000 units of UBA in January 2006, you'll today have 2,250 units @ about N15.20 average
If you'd bought & held 1000 units of UBA in January 2007, you'll today have 1,875 units @ about N18.77 average

These numbers have neglected inflation but show that stock splits ('bonuses') and dividends do matter when finding current average prices.
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Nice to see people helping out here.

However, you could obtain transfer instructions directly from your bank, complete with details of correspondent banks. Sometimes, correspoondent bank details may change, so it's good to check with the bank.
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savesoul:
Nairalanders,
Thanks for your Advise and support, and for those of you that doubted me , i pray the same thing happen to you.

I got a call from the GTB Head Office this morning that the Criminal has been apprehended. i am dressed up now to go to the GTB head office, but i wanted to inform you guys about proceedings, i hope everything go well. i will be back by evening.

One more thing I will make sure i get a picture of the criminal and put it on nairaland so we can all see his ugly face

It's good to know the issue is about sorted; but we need to get to learn from this. savesoul: you could help out with the details.

1) Is the fellow a GTBank member of staff? If yes, which Branch? The Head Office?
2) How was the fellow apprehended? Did the police get involved?
3) The unauthorised transfers from your account were made to two names; I had opined that these two names must be GTBank accounts; could you confirm this?

Cheers.

[quote author=frank_ike link=topic=127591.msg3169222#msg3169222 date=1228202340]1) i want every nigerians to smile especially Nairaland subscribers, that is my reason of being here, Mark my words,
2) the bearish trend will continue till January.
3) In january there will a great bullish trend,
4) if u want to know the date that d market will rebounce in january, believe me i will give u the date
5) My friends out there, i suggest you buy shares betwee now and jan , th.
6) I repeat, bullish trend in january, i love u all[/quote]Hi! You probably mean well, so I've left out the part where Jesus Christ is being confused with stock trading. Let's get down to brass tasks (to coin a phrase).

a) in item 3); bullish trend for which stocks? All stocks? There're many stocks on the NSE. Name 10 stocks that you anticipate a bullish trend for.
b) you claim that your investigation have been scientific; what methods have you used?
c) if b) above is correct, do you then recognise that investigation and prediction are two different territories? Your investigations may have been correct, but predictions require a different sort of wizardry.

In any case, giving you the benefit of the doubt, why don't you lay out your scientific investigations?
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Martian:
The FBI said they were clean, so they should have been alllowed to board another flight.

Yeah, the FBI said they were clean, but the pilot and airline have the last say. Anyone who's been on a flight that had some trouble could perhaps recall the sense of anguish that would hang on for the duration of the flight. The pilot and airline have the last word; the FBI (and CIA, if they like) could go swallow some sand; since when have they always got it right? The rules are clear: behave yourself and muzzle your mouth when going on a flight; if the pilot feels the hint of any insecurity, you're off the flight. Of course, you may sue, heck, you may even win; but you aren't doing that flight. It's the pilot's plane, and he decides who stays on board.
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blissfullynaughty:
A few years ago (and this is the truth), I was almost not allowed on a Continental Airline flight from London Gatwick to New York, just because I had insisted (rather forcefully) that I had to have seats by the exit (those seats have more leg room). They booked my flight and gave me the seats, but on the day, you need to see the way I was treated. I was searched thoroughly (they stopped short of stripping me o). Then when they finally checked me in, I was told that i was not being given the exit seat. When I asked what seat I was allocated, I was told a seat would be allocated to me at the gate (in all my years of travelling, this was a new one). At the gate, they refused to give me a seat until the last passengers had gotten on the plane, then they gave me a seat as far from the exit as possible, in the bleeping middle row (I guess they wanted to make sure that if I had anything or plan or accomplice, it would be hard to carry out the plans). To add insult upon injury, when I was returning, I was pulled aside again when I showed my passport and ticket and searched again (told to sit down, lift up my legs etc). . . I was mortified. Again, my exit seat was taken off me and I was allocated some other obscure seat. Needless to say that that was the first and last time I ever flew with Continental Airlines.

Interesting, and informative story. The airline should be thanked for taking note of unusual requests. Too bad it was not convenient for you, but you'd want another bad guy who'd want an exit seat to be treated the same way; it's quite the reasonabel thing to do.

The airlines were within their rights to take them off the flight but they had no right not to let them on another flight.

Why do you say this? Does this mean it's ok to be concerned about the safety of the first flight and not the other? It was correct for the airline to have refused to get these passengers on board any flight until they were satisfied the passengers posed no danger at all; and, then, it's the right thing to do to apologise when then the airline was mistaken. Always better to err on the side of safety than be sorry; always.
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Bastage:
It is very unlikely that the people jailed for saying that they have a bomb in their luggage when asked if they have anything to declare are potential hijackers either. But they're still jailed.

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/2006-02-22-bomb-joke_x.htm
http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2001/09/26/story13476.asp
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-112361515.html
http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-6771588_ITM
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0CE1DC1539F930A15751C1A96F958260&sec=&spon=
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2004/jan/21/britishairways.terrorism
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0CWU/is_/ai_n14818196
http://gothamist.com/2008/04/21/mentioning_a_bo.php
http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/gan/press/2005/11-07-2005.html

The list goes on. I can literally find hundreds of these incidents and none of them are Arabs or Muslims.

Excellent list; informative for those who don't know and those who're prone to shout "religious discrimination".

More stuff that'll get you kicked off a flight, whatever your religion:

1) http://www.portlandtribune.com/news/story.php?story_id=32068
2) http://panasonicyouth.buzznet.com/user/journal/104473/man-kicked-off-australian-flight/
3) Jewish man removed from airplane for praying http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2006/09/05/qc-hasidicprayeronplane.html
4) Preacher’s Wife Kicked Off Plane http://www.onlinetravelreview.com/2005/12/21/preachers-wife-kicked-off-plane/
5) Man kicked off plane faces sentencing  http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P1-145642594.html
6) http://www.wsbtv.com/news/13664685/detail.html

As you'd see, the attendants/airline could even be wrong; they'll apologise later (see item 6; there's a good hint). Stupidity has no religion; when you're on a plane, or even before then, be careful. No one's going to allow you on a flight if you pose even the hint of a threat.
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Too bad; but it's better to be safe than sorry; apologies to the family.

Look, you don't have to be Muslim to be kicked off a plane for this sort of discussion; just try it someday; even if you're Jesus Christ, the airline 'll eb doing God's good safety work to kick you off a plane for thinking aloud about where to sit, especially, when you casually mention words like crash and nasty words like that.

Note: some flights are free-seating, and passengers are allowed to choose where they sit. That said: anyone discussing aloud a crash of a carrier they're on ought to be kciked off the place, whatever their religion.
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[quote author=*osisi* link=topic=214635.msg3303591#msg3303591 date=1231101442]Yousef, 30, said he realized the true nature of Hamas and radical Islam during a stint in an Israeli prison. He renounced his Muslim faith, left his family behind in Ramallah and converted to Christianity.

"Islam is not the word of God," said Yousef. "If you want to be offended it's your problem. But you know something? Go study. Think for a second that I might be right. So wake up, look at your path, see where you're going. Are you really going to heaven with 72 virgins after you kill yourself and kill another 20 people?"

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,475226,00.html[/quote]Anecdotal 'evidence' which proves nothing.

Now, he'll be target of equal-opportunity hatred by the Jews and Muslims.

And, by abandoning his family, he has effectively renounced his new-found Christian faith. The very Christian on here could surely find the relevant scripture.

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JJYOU:
more a take away without missing than mistake. it happens especially when paying cash in large amounts. cashiers take the money and record lesser amounts

It is for this reason that you must take a very good look at your slip before leaving the bank - and before leaving the cashier; this is your proof, and once you've delivered the cash, the slip becomes a substitute for it. Whatever the amount, make it a practice to always keep your slip safe.

And, here's more: attempt to encourage your business partners to go cashless as much as is possible; let them send a cheque, or let them sign on to your bank's online service. It's a long road, but we'll get there.
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pwin:
[b]Platinum Wealth Investment club was introduced by Platinum Wealth Investment
Networks - RC: 703098 in order to provide our investing members with
interesting investment opportunities.

We strategicaly Invest our member's funds into:
- ForEx Trading,
- Foreign Pennystocks,
- Media House e.g. News Print, Printing Press,
- Wireless Internet Service Provider (Wifi), telecoms,
- Banking which in returns, turn over your Investments via 200% within 30
working days maximum.
- REIG Programs (Real Estate Income Gain.)
- Mutual Funds
- Segregated Funds e.t.c.

Our Start-Up Capital by Intending Investors in our Program starts from
minimum deposit of N200.00.

The company is giving hope to Nigeria citizens, especially the Young School
leavers, The Undergraduates, the Graduates and the Unemployed
Nigerian Youths. The company is partnering and affiliating with many other
companies based abroad to eradicate unemployment in Nigeria and
eradicate Poverty in West Africa and Platinum
Wealth Networks is their agent here in Nigeria.

If you want to know more about the Investment Program to build Credibilty,
contact platinumwealthinvestments@gmail.com or call Mr. Smith on 07026199024.

SAY "NO" TO UNEMPLYMENT IN NIGERIA.

Platinum Wealth Investment Network
We contribute our part to make Nigerians Rich.[/b]

Er, he wrote N200.00

That's low enough, except that 10,000 graduates buying into this makes that N2,000,000; that's a quite handsome sum.
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savesoul:
a) Where's your GTBank account 'located', i.e., your primary branch? 

Ogbomosho

b) Do you have an account officer? Yes/No.

Yes

c) What's the narration for the N155,000 debit? (see "Remarks" in the GeNS notification)


Transaction Notification
==========================
Account Number             : ***-*****-*-**-*
Transaction Location       : PLURAL HOUSE
Description                : TRANSFER BETWEEN CUSTOMERS
Amount                     : 155,000.00 Naira
Value Date                 : 23-DEC-2008
Remarks                    : TRF FROM ******** TO ADEMILUYI
Time Of Transaction        : 02:01:12 PM

d) What's the narration of the N256,000 debit? (see"Remarks" in the GeNS notification)

Transaction Notification
==========================
Account Number             : ***-*****-*-**-* 
Transaction Location       : PLURAL HOUSE
Description                : TRANSFER BETWEEN CUSTOMERS
Amount                     : 256,000.00 Naira
Value Date                 : 29-DEC-2008
Remarks                    : TRF FROM ********  TO SANGOKEYE GBENGA (PAYMENT FOR FLIGHT TICKET)
Time Of Transaction        : 10:55:27 AM

g) Were both debits from your current account, or your savings account?

Savings Account ( My Hard earned savings  )

e) What's the "Translation Location" and "Description" of the N155,000 debit?
f) What's the "Translation Location" and "Description"of the N256,000 debit?

Both Debits took place at Plural House ( GTB Head Office )

Make una Help me oooooooooo

Based on the details you have supplied, we could make the following conclusions:

1)       The transfers were effected from GTBank Head Offcie at Plural House
2)       No, no one has forged your signature via a cheque for these transactions, you could rest easy on that.
3)       No, no one has hacked into your online bank account for these transactions; you could rest easy on that.
4)       The implication of the above is that your claim of an unauthorised transaction on your account now carries a very heavy weight. It will be very difficult (read: almost impossible) to prove that you made the transaction or that you had anything to do with the transaction; this is very important.

There may be other questions based on how this proceeds, but this is what I will recommend you do asap:

1)       Make a call to your account officer at your primary branch; ask them to block your account immediately until all this is sorted out.
2)       If you are anywhere near your primary GTBank branch, go right there with printed copies of the transaction notifications.
3)       If you’re not near your primary branch, no problem; go to the nearest GTBank branch to you with printed copies of the above.
4)       Make sure you have on you adequate identification as the account owner (this is not really necessary; your name and presence should do)
5)       Ask to speak with the operations manager wherever you are; if at your primary branch, your account officer should be your first contact; if your account officer is unavailable, then you ask to speak with the operations manager.
6)       Here: it’s quite certain that when you present the details of the transactions, and after they access your account to view the narration, they would either contact Plural House and kick off the process of refunding your money (provided the essential details of this matter are not beyond what you’ve provided here).
7)       *** Note1: It may be difficult, but try not to sound angry; some sadness is fine, but anger isn’t. also: make sure you don’t shout; this is important. Don’t do anything to attract attention in the banking hall; if you’re getting worked-up, take a breathe deeply; make sure you don’t blow up.
8')       *** Ask for the business card of anyone you talk to. If they don’t have one, ask for their full names; don’t forget. Confirm from them their GTBank email address. Don’t forget.
9)       Bonus info: ask the GTBank people to confirm that Sangokeye Gbenga and Ademiluyi are GTBank account holders.

A few notes: this appears to be straightforward based on the transaction details; your money will soon be with you. And remember: don’t surrender your account details to anyone online. If this matter isn’t sorted, or if you do not receive the assurance that your money will be refunded, then report back here; the next stage of recovery will be activated. But knowing the good GTBank people, I’m close to being certain your money will be refunded with apologies.

Cheers.

korodo:
but MTN N100 recharge cards in bulk at the rate of N30 per card. minimum purchase is 500 units.
07041131292

kgold:
guy you are a thief and if u continue like this you shall die in 2009, stop it segun ogunbairo
look what goes around comes around. if ure doing a good biz then y is my email id not credited since 23rd december. a thief will see death, watch the way i will get to u, because all ur details in oceanic bank i will get .SURPRISE I WORK AT OCEANIC . EXPECT DIASTER

kgold: details incomplete. Er, did you pay some money into this fellow's account?
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MyPeace:
another wahala with UBA, l recently paid in 30k into my a/c. could you imagine my follow Nairalanders that only 20k was credited to my a/c. How do l got to know, u may ask. l withdrew some money from my account and the wrote my balance as usual. Am not yet a millionaire , so l have my balance even when am sleeping . l went straight to the customer service desk and complained that the bal they wrote is not mine, she cross checked her system, still the same. l told her the last payment l made was 30k if thats the case my bal shoud be so so and so. she asked me whether am sure of the 30k, and ordered me to bring the payment slip. Thank God l still have the thing in my office, l rushed brought it and gave to her, after all said and done, they apologised and wrote my real balance. So you got to carry your balance for head ooooo

You did right by having the payment slip with you. This may have been a mistake on the part of the bank teller. All's well that ends well. The lesson shouldn't be forgotten: always have a record of the transaction.
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ehie007:
I even got a N100 naira debit in my firstbank account for requesting for passbook, passbook wey i no request for, i will go there this monday and rake for them, even if its just N100 naira, if i don't rake they will then start deboting large amount from my account, hope its not a cheap way for them to make money if not,

You did the right thing.

It is important to question any unauthorised deduction/transaction on your account; no amount is too small.

Your situation isn't impossible, but it appears you're not answering questions necessary to help with your problem. First off, a warning: do not reveal your account details in an open forum; your best shot at solving this is with GTBank. Some of these questions ahve been asked before; they're repeated here; the objective is to obtain some information and guide you toward a solution.

1) Are you still able to log into your GTBank online account? If Yes, then log in and change your password.
2) Also check your email address of record with GTBank; your GTBank log in details are vulnerable via email; they could have been compromised via email.
3) Contact your GTBank account officer; this should be done at the branch at which your account is being administered from.

As an earlier comment said, no online banking system is completely fool-proof. GTBank have tried to limit unauthorised transactions on your account by having some checks in place:

4) Email notifications are sent as soon as transactions are posted to your account; the SMS alerts may be late.
5) The narration of the transaction will give the names of the two GTbank accounts involved in the transaction.
6) Online transfers could only be made to pre-registered GTBank accounts. This is important in understanding what's going on with your account. The amounts you've indicated appear to be quite heavy for an ATM scam/fraud. To withdraw N256,000 (I'm assuming this amount was withdrwan in a single transaction) isn't as straightforward as it may appear at GTBank. The smae goes for the first amount of N155,000; the recipient account must have been pre-registered by the account holder. . .

As you should have seen, quite a number of people are interested in solving your particular issue, but without the important information, along with you answering some basic questions, that'll be difficult. Of course, it's not inappropriate to afford a problem the benefit of doubt. If you do want people here to help, some questions need to be answered:

a) Where's your GTBank account 'located', i.e., your primary branch?
b) Do you have an account officer? Yes/No.
c) What's the narration for the N155,000 debit? (see "Remarks" in the GeNS notification)
d) What's the narration of the N256,000 debit? (see"Remarks" in the GeNS notification)
e) What's the "Translation Location" and "Description" of the N155,000 debit?
f) What's the "Translation Location" and "Description"of the N256,000 debit?
g) Were both debits from your current account, or your savings account?

All these info should be in the GeNS notification sent to you.
.

1) Whcih GTBank branch is your primary branch?
2) Do you have an account officer?
3) Do you have access to online banking?
4) What is the exact narration of the debits to your account?

You couls ask a million questions, but it's only the questions relevant to your case that do matter.

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No son, all ain't well with Nigeria.

It's a falling house of cards; only the deluded would think otherwise.

Of course, Lagos State's turning to be a different place, as we soon expect one other state to be, a model for others to follow.
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Backslider:
Now do the math: 2(for earth) + 4(for nourishment) + 2 (for heavens) = 8 days; and not 6 days

The above is a dispaly of ingnorance, and a failure of imagination; by the elematary math student that is.
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In 2009, Nigeria will experience a lot of ups and downs.
I see bloodshed. There is going to be political riot.
Many religious crises will take place.
Some monarchs will die in South-south, Southwest, Southeast, and an emir from the North will fall sick seriously.
We also need to pray and rescue a one-time governor from death.
There is going to be changes in Central Bank of Nigeria.
Some banks will face a lot of crises.
Some banks are going to do re-branding and change of name. They will also change their logos.
NNPC will face a lot of crises, and next year will witness a lot of scarcity of petroleum products.
Diesel and cement price will rise. We will witness food crises next year, whereby people will have money yet they will not get food to buy.
Bread price will go up, and house rent will also go up next year.

Federal Government will re-adjust civil servants salary.
Lagos State Civil Service Commission will witness problem next year.
Some Permanents secretaries will be retired next year in the state. The same thing will happen at the federal level.
Not all the senators and House of Representatives will finish their term.
Senate President and the Speaker of the House of Representatives will face a lot of problems.
There is going to be coup against Senate President and Speaker, House of Representatives next year.

With all due respect, none of all the above qualifies as predictions.

It's lots of talk; no prediction.
.

Where are these man's predictions for 2008?

Hadn'the said OBJ shouldn't seek a 3rd term if he valued his life? OBJ is alive and well; he was last seen at Imogun day talking boisterously, just as OBJ does.
.

Look, these aren't predictions worthy of publication.

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Chrisbenogor wrote: In biology, evolution is change in the inherited traits of a population of organisms from one generation to the next. These changes are caused by a combination of three main processes: variation, reproduction, and selection. Genes that are passed on to an organism's offspring producethe inherited traits that are the basis of evolution. These traits vary within populations, with organisms showing heritable differences in their traits. When organisms reproduce, their offspring may have new or altered traits. These new traits arise in two main ways: either from mutations in genes, or from the transfer of genes between populations and between species. In species that reproduce sexually, new combinations of genes are also produced by genetic recombination, which can increase variation between organisms. Evolution occurs when these heritable differences become more common or rare in a population.
*source wikipedia
Do all parties agree to this definition?

Chris, this exapnded definition is fairly accurate. The part: "Eevolution is change in the inherited traits of a population of organisms from one generation to the next" should be about accurate enough for the purpose of this discussion. Were we to get quite precise, we could go with the definition of a basic biology textbook for evolution as "any change in the frequency of alleles within a gene pool from one generation to the next."

I doubt that people using "evolution", especially the religiously inclined, think of evolution this way. The next step will be to ascertain that this definition is understood. The definition is one thing, it's understanding is another; it is simple, yet not trivial.
.

I can define evolution as I've been using the word in a sentence with less than 2 lines on this page. My experience has been that many using the word have no idea what it means; I suspect that you - unfortunately - may belong to this class. It's worthless having a discussion about evolution with anyone who couldn't understand a precise definition of "evolution". And, no wikipedia; a basic biology textbook will do.

Hi everyone: to begin a discussion of evolution, you ought to be able to precisely define it; the definition is an aid to understanding any reasonable discussion on the subject. And, while at this lees-than-20-word definition, try not to be bored.


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davidylan:
The "definition" issue is a red herring to avoid the question.

It isn't.

What's your working definition for "evolution" as you have been using the word?

The definition of "evolution" is the faundamental to this discussion; what did you mean when you ahev used it? A few sentences will do and put this to rest.
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davidylan:
That has nothing to do with me. I'm simply asking a direct question . . . [color=#000099]what is the evidence for evolution if you believe it exists?

How do we intelligently discuss "evolution" is we don't have a common definition of "evolution"? This is fundamental. A common definition of the most important concept in the exhange is a first step to reasoned discussion.

davidylan:
If you think it doesn exist and God does not then how did we get here? Irrefutable proof please.

Step by step, eh. There's no leap to "God does not exist"; whether God exists or not is - strictly - irrelevant to this discussion of evolution. The proof I called irrefustable is for evolution. Clarity David; clarity.
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