₦airaland Forum

mazaje:
Two days. . . .How far now? How body, Hope you are good out there?. . . . . I missed you

Paul wrote under the guidance of the holy spirit based on what evidence?. . . . .  where you there when the holy spirit was guiding him or do you just accept the theory?


Very typical of my man. . . .what have all these questions got to do with anything? The Christian bible is a collection  of books put together by the catholic church. . .


Fair enough. . . . . You are entittled to your own opinion. . . .

I have honestly missed u . . . . , nairaland has been boring lately. . . .ur absence has exposed me to reading abuzola's posts

I have no evidence that the spirit guided Paul or the apostles. but one can always reconcile their teachings to the core messages of Jesus. The key word is BELIEVE. I believe that the teachings of the apostles and prophets as written in the bible was INSPIRED by God, . . . . .just my opinion.

mazaje:
Very typical of neotic to answer questions with questions. . . . .Do you have any evidence to show that paul and the mostly unknown writers of the gospels and epistels were under the guidiance of what you call the holy spirit?. . . .NO you don't. . .

His question which you refuse to answer is this.  . . . . Is it the same holy spirit which you claim to have influenced paul the same holy spirit that influenced the catholic bishops who voted to choose what should be considred the word of god and what to be discarded?. . . .The bible as we know it today is a product of the catholic tradition(because they made it what it is). . . .so were the catholic bishops under the influence of this same holy spirit you are talking about when they decided to cannonize what they believe deserves to be considered as scripture and what they felt needed to be discarded?. . . .If yes then why do you guys go around claiming that the catholics are lost?

very typical of mazaje. . . .to jump into a debate he has little understanding of

1. I believe I answered the questions myself. Paul wrote under the guidance of the Spirit. . . . . .its a leave or take case. whats ur pick?

2. The bible is a collection of spiritually filled books. what stops the catholics from collecting such books? whose responsibility is it to collect such?
FYI: The catholic bible contains more books than the protestant bible and different books by the others. It implies that it is each individuals responsibility to seek and find the truth. but the bible as we see it today contains the truth as depicted by Christ before His death.

agathamari:
nowhere did i say to disbelieve the bible as a whole. i refered to in many of my posts that it is to be seen as a referance guide on how to live a proper and spiritual life not a to do list. not to sit and say well the bible says this guy did this so this must be the way to do it. the message of the church has always been [b]love and peace[/b]though some people fail to see this message and take the book and its teachings to be a "hit list" of sorts of those who must be punished by man. why is it with you anyone who does not share your closed views is atomaticaly a satanist? where did i ever praise satan? where have i ever stood for anyone being accused without proof as a satanist? where have i ever said there is no god? now who isnt following the teachings of christ. ill ask again which of the bibles and which of teh denominations of christianity is the correct one since as you say the "spirit" had his hand in it? hey cant all be correct now can they?

While I dont understand the rationale behind such a personalised response to my post by u, which was initially addressed to someone else. . . .I will attempt to make a response.


1. while u (that also includes kunleoshob) keep insisting on peace and love being the core teachings of Christ. . . u miss several points.
the love and peace of Christ has no semblance with the world. what do u make of Jesus pronouncement in John 14:27. why did Jesus have to distinguish between His peace and the peace of the world?

2. where did both of u deduce the core teachings of Christ as peace and love from? was it not from the bible? why then is that same bible irrelevant and insignificant in determining the crux of Christ's gospel? . . .sounds like disguised ignorance to me.

It is a wonder that most pentecostals who see everything wrong with the catholics would swear and hold on tightly to the cannon of scriptures chosen and imposed on us by the catholic church which they so much despise.

ur generalisation is very unhealthy.
1. no one hates the catholics or anyone for that matter. several people might despise what the papacy stands for but no one hates any group of catholics.

2. the catholics have a more extensive version of the bible with more books . . . . .how did that skip ur attention?

3. the bible was not IMPOSED by the catholics. . .neither are its contents binding on anyone. the LIBERTY to choose what to believe/disbelieve still exists.

Deep Sight:
GBAM! This is soooooo apt!!!!!!

Noetic - Was the Holy Spirit guiding the Catholics in their decisions?

Up to the point of inquisitions, torture of heretics and sale of indulgences to forgive sins? And the Holy Spirit was guiding that same barbaric lot in selection of scripture? ? ? ?

u are joining three different issues together here. . . . .please learn to be objective.

was the scriptures written by Paul and the apostles without the guidiance of the spirit?. . . .No.
was the scripture preserved for hundreds of years without the guidiance of the spirit?. . . .No.
so what EXACTLY is ur point?

agathamari:
now your truely showing your own ignorance

what sort of rubbish is this?

u personalised a response I gave to kunleoshob and u dare accuse me of ignorance?
did u read ur read ur response to my post at all? was my primordial post addressed to u?

muhsin:
Must you comment to this thread?

when did that become ur prerogative?

agathamari:
nowhere did i say to disbelieve the bible as a whole. i refered to in many of my posts that it is to be seen as a referance guide on how to live a proper and spiritual life not a to do list. not to sit and say well the bible says this guy did this so this must be the way to do it. the message of the church has always been love and peacethough some people fail to see this message and take the book and its teachings to be a "hit list" of sorts of those who must be punished by man. why is it with you anyone who does not share your closed views is atomaticaly a satanist? where did i ever praise satan? where have i ever stood for anyone being accused without proof as a satanist? where have i ever said there is no god? now who isnt following the teachings of christ. ill ask again which of the bibles and which of teh denominations of christianity is the correct one since as you say the "spirit" had his hand in it? hey cant all be correct now can they?

is agathamari the same person as kunleoshob?

KunleOshob:
As usual the popular NL culture of derailing threads and turning it into personal attacks has reared it's ugly head here. This thread was primarily created to discuss Gnostic christianity. I started it beocs i was hoping i might gain some insight into what it was all about since they have a different view of christiainity from mainstream christianity and they are as ancient as the catholic church. I am also curious to know the contents of the books/ gospels they use an the reason why the catholic church rejected them. As i have repeatedly said on this forum i really don't believe in any denomination or sect of christianity as they are all man made creations and most of them have even departed from the core teachings of christ. But that not with standing i thirst for more knowledge of christ which i believe is not limited to the catholic cannonized bible which has been editted by the protestants[b][@noetic[/b]: was the "holy spirit" involved in the editting as well?]. It is a wonder that most pentecostals who see everything wrong with the catholics would swear and hold on tightly to the cannon of scriptures chosen and imposed on us by the catholic church which they so much despise. I would always continue to encourage all christians to focus on christ and his true gospel that is the koko in the bible and that is what makes us christians. Every other thing in the bible is ancilliary to this and might not necessarily be useful as doctrine for us today. With that said i would like us to return to our discusion on gnostism. Any takers

It is quite easy for u to use an escapist tactic , . . . . .

when did u start being dishonest?

Deep Sight:
Ok, let us return to it. . .

did i unsettle a nerve?

what difference would my experiences make to u?

Deep Sight:
Noetic, recall that you yourself stated that in those posts you were "setting a background". . .You talked Isaiah, Before Abraham was, I AM, ETC.

You did NOT address my verses.

I addressed ur first two verses and was on the third. . . . . .did u not see it?

Deep Sight:
Oh please Noetic, notice i rated you very highly? So don't resort to lies.

If you visit the thread you will see that you promised to be right back to conclude what you had started, but you never returned!

I have already made 3 posts to address many of ur concerns on that thread. . .yet there was no response form u.
I simply left the thread cos twas obvious that . . . . ,

I cant stop thinking that this thread is ridiculous

fellis:
Why is noetic pretending to be an intellectual by starting a thread like this? Here is an idea for you thread starter, start one of those 'intellectual and deeply thought out' threads that you miss. Start one yourself instead of just complaining.
And moderator, unban Abuzola with immediate effect.

just humour urself.

Deep Sight:
HOW DARE YOU SAY THIS?

DAVID WAS ROUNDLY ROASTED IN THAT THREAD TO THE EXTENT THAT HE TOOK TO HIS HEELS.

YOU ATTEMPTED SOME FEEBLE REDEMPTION OF THE "JESUS IS GOD" CAMP, BUT FAILED TO ADDRESS ANY OF MY VERSES.

YOU BOTH SHOWED EXTREME ESCAPISM IN THAT THREAD, AND THE THREAD IS THERE FOR ANY OBJECTIVE OBSERVER TO DRAW HIS CONCLUSIONS.

Once I began to give analyses of the verses, .u took to ur heels. . . .

Deep Sight:
^^^ ANSWER HIM NOW, NOETIC!

And also explain why the words in KJV 1 Jn 5 v 7 have been expunged from all modern versions of the Bible!

Explain!

thou hypocrite. I did not translate any of the versions from theor original texts as such I have no explanation.

why did thou run away from the David interview thread. . .was thou scared?

KunleOshob:
@Noetic
Within the context of your belief in the inerrancy of the bible as a whole how do you reconcile the following verses?

Jeremiah 8:8:

8 “‘How can you say, “We are wise because we have the word of the Lord,”
when your teachers have twisted it by writing lies?
New Living Translation (NLT)

Jeremiah 8:8:
8How can you say, We are wise, and we have the written law of the Lord [and are learned in its language and teachings]? Behold, the truth is, the lying pen of the scribes has made of the law a falsehood (a mere code of ceremonial observances).
Amplified Bible (AMP)

You might need to read the chapter from the beginning for clearer understanding.

Let us be clear. . .what are we talking about?
A. the inerrability of the bible ?
B. The inerrability of bible translations?

KunleOshob:
What most people fail to realize is that the bible is not one book and can not be treated rightly as such. Firstly you have to realize that it is a collection of books put together by fourth century christians in their understanding of what they considered as scripture. Also you have to realize that prior to this compilation christianity had existed for at least 300 years and they never used the bible as we have it today, even then they practised a much purer form of christianity than the diluted version handed down to us today by our mordern day church fathers. The teachings of christ also appear in at least 30 other gospels[gospel of thomas, mary magdalene, of truth, of Judas, of barnabas e.t.c] not cannonized in the bible by the catholic church and several other historical records of the first century roman empire so limiting your knowledge of christ to just the cannonized books is allowing your self to be put in the box the early church fathers designed. As i told you in a previous thread you have to scrutinize and critisize your faith before you can truly describe yourself as a believer, if you just believe for beleiving sake or for the fear of hell or the prospects of heaven then you have missed he road. You have to understand this true gospel, appreciate and believe the teachings by practicalizing it before you can say you are of christ. It is not about the bible but about the spirit of christ. The bible merely keeps a record of it.

while u are entitled to ur opinion. . .permit to say this.

1. The canonisation of the bible is NOT an excuse to disbelieve the bible. The bible itself is a collection of ancient books collected together to educate the latter day christians about their faith. There were several books and for several reasons several others were excluded from the bible.
what u have failed to establish is . .  . .if the bible as presently constituted does not represent the views of Jesus Christ? , . . .does the bible as presently constituted stopped being the word of God? does it need any other book or books to establish its inherent truths? is there a huge contradiction between the non-biblical and biblical books?, . if so, do these differences bother on the core message of salvation and divinity of Jesus?
unless and until u answer the above questions. . . . .u usual road-side argument of discrediting the authorship of the bible does not hold water.

2. By stating that the bible was put together by fourth generation christians based on their understanding of the scripture. . . . .you completely dis-acknowledge the work of the spirit.
Are u suggesting that the holy spirit and subsequently god had no say in the writing and collection of the books of the bible?. . . is this not a far betrayal of the ontological profile of the holy spirit as proclaimed by Jesus Himself?

3. u have repeatedly spoke about "the true teachings of Christ" and u have also repeatedly called them LOVE.
I put it to u (with all due respect) that u have NO understanding of the core message of Christ with regards to LOVE.
Christ's understanding of love is not the usual picture u paint. Christ position was
A. a case of either for God or against God. . .  .then
B. love this God whole heartedly and now love ur neighbour. This is the basis of my saying that u CANNOT serve satan and claim to have LOVE. that form of love is unacceptable to God. and in this context I do not refer to satanism but to anything unChrist-like including atheism, islam, hinduism and buddhism.

. . , there is a lot to say . . . . . .but i reserve further comment.

jagunlabi:
Hah!Look who is talking!Noetic(of all people) is looking for threads that "raises intellectual posers and provokes deeply thought out debates".Aren't we forgetting something?This is a RELIGION forum and and only shallow my - religion - is - better - than - yours threads get opened in here.In this forum, where religious folks form about 99% of the crowd, what do you expect?It is all oneupmanship business here,my friend.Deep thinking?Religions like christianity and islam make people to be extremely shallow in their thinking.People who only try to promote and force their religious ideologies on others cannot be expected to indulge in deep thinking debates.To them, it is a sheer waste of time.They just want their respective religions to be accepted as the one and only truth, and that is the end of that.What depth of thinking do you think that requires or can provoke?Let me tell you, NONE WHATSOEVER.So what is all this talk about a dearth of deep thinking threads?Are you not a christian?Aren't you also involved in the religious propaganda actions of running other beliefs down just to upgrade yours? When was the last time that you opened such a thread, noetic?Will you quit being a hypocrite for once.

I can only laugh.

P.S none of ur assertions about me is true.

@ Deep sight

ur diagram is not self-explanatory . . . . .how about some additional notes/analyses?

KunleOshob:
If i am moving closer, it must be in the direction of the true gospel of our lord and saviour Jesus christ. However most people just like to stereotype christianity and put everyone in a straight Jacket. Let me make this clear my christian faith remains resolute and is based strictly on the gospel of our lord Jesus christ. As a christian i do not accept 100% of the contents of the bible as doctrine becos it was mere men that decided which books they want to cannonize and they might have by ommission or commission ommited or included what they should't have. I have based my beliefs on the core teachings of Jesus christ which is basically Love for God, love for fellow men and doing unto others as you would want them to do unto you. That apart we were called to live an exemplary life. Any thing i find not compatible with the teachings of christ i reject wether it is in the bible or not and that is the same attitude i would use to scrutinize Gnostic teachings which is claimed to be derived from christ. I am quite certain that the catholic church witheld a lot of sacred / inspired writings from the bible and kept it for their own use for reasons best known to them. I might be mis-understood but i am on a journey to know and understand the teachings of christ better irrespective of what the early catholic church decided to cannonize oin the bible and as such mould the christian religion. Today it is quite obvious that a lot of practises contrary to the teachings of christ are now being practised in our churches and christianity as standard practises.

I am tempted to ask: . . . .

Since u think that the bible is a watershed of what it ought to be, by omission or commission. how and where did u deduce the teaching of Jesus Christ as love?

muhsin:
Thanks, brother Abuzola, for continueing with the thread in my absence. May Allah reward.

who has allah ever rewarded?

agathamari:
For anyone who is Buddhist or similar religion. a place to talk openly and freely without persecution

does this mean other hell-bound religions?

Hello obvious . . . .howdy?

lol . . . I think huxley is tired of having his ignorance exposed all the time

But on a serious note . . . this is really sad. even u (Pastor AIO), u are yet to bring up ur usually well thought out debates and opinions on any thread lately. This section has lost the spark. . .abuzola is now king

With so much time on my hands today. . . I decided to browse through the religion section, only to realise that there is NOT a single new thread that raises intellectual posers and provokes deeply thought-out debates. all we have are bashing and opinionated threads . . . , with no room for intellectual and rich debates anymore.

is the religion section dead? where are the principal actors?

bawomolo:
kunle is moving closer and closer. hmmm

I concur.

panel beater

alakori

chamotex:
Na my wife u dey follow talk like that?
Respect yourself

bros no vex.

but multiple husbands is allowed.

tubabie:
Nah


@Noetic
Waddup?

where have thou been?, . . . I have missed u terribly . . .I am cool . . whats good?

@ post

YES ooooo . . . . I find that profile bobby irresistible.

Ogaga4Luv:
[size=13pt]tpia you again. . . Ok. im coming, wait for me!.[/size]

I expected ur e-mail. . .but u refused to mail me. were u afraid of me? why?

you need to expunge olabowale from ur list of "saints" . . . . . , .