₦airaland Forum

mazaje:
What has this got to do with anything?


And your evidence that it was your god that stroke them to death is? . . . . . .I laugh, . What exactly is your god's will? Haven't you heard of stories about people who mocked allah and died because allah ''stroke'' them to death?

once again mazaje runs round in circle. . . . .but this time, I give up

This is quite false because If Christians do not fear death as you claim they will not pray or cry to their god to protect them when they are in trouble or when they come face to face with death. What exactly is the will of your god for martin luther? The way this god hypothesis is framed does or offers no real explanation for anything if some thing god happens to a person it the will be termed as the will of god, If something bad happens to the same person it  will also be termed as the will of god, so what exactly is this will of god and how come it is only apologist that always lay claim to this elusive will of god?

I mentioned TRUE xtians and not xtians by name like u once were.

viaro:
@neotic, my good friend, that is not true. Quite a few times while surfing the net on Lennon, search engines led me to Nairaland where several posters already posted the same thing. Here are a few -

[list]Do Yhu Know These Facts? - by Missy B

Top Earning Dead Celebrities  - by spikedcylinder

Mocking God? - by layi

I Do Not Believe in God - by kaylala

Pastor Adeboye Says Satan Planned 49 Plane Crashes - by Jungle Queen

What The Bible Says About Death - by Mamajama[/list]

I just thought you should know.

thanks . . . I am just seeing it on the forum for the first time though.

[quote author=Tudór link=topic=366383.msg5117656#msg5117656 date=1260885815]In other words human laws are well able to dispense justice hence we do not need that of christ. . .thank you.Hmmm[/quote]I am sure tudor is educated

. . .why was a 'dead' moses shining his 'dead' face during the transfiguration with christ on the mount?

He did not descend from heaven . . .did he? go read ur bible if u have one.

lagerwhenindoubt:
@Nezan,  you are soooo busted

Here are some men and women who mocked God :

John Lennon (Singer): Some years before, during his interview with an American Magazine, he said:  'Christianity will end, it will disappear.  I do not have to argue about  that. I am certain. Jesus was ok, but his subjects were too simple, today we are more famous than Him' (1966).  Lennon, after saying that the Beatles were more famous than Jesus Christ, was shot  six times. 

http://www.john-lennon.com/theassassinationofjl.htm

Unless you are saying rather than Smite people as he routinely does, he chose a rather elaborate scheme to brain-wash a good christian fellow into shooting his target,  very feeble argument there Nezan

Tancredo Neves (President of  Brazil ): During the Presidential campaign, he said if he got 500,000 votes from his party, not even God would remove him from Presidency,   Sure he got the votes, but he
got sick a day before being made President, then he died.

Well i will give it to him there, that is a classic smoting example that is reminiscent of the days of Pharaoh and Slave Israelites and the pestilence and smoting  of first borns (i love that word smite)



Cazuza (Bi-sexual Brazilian composer, singer and poet):  During A show in Canecio  Rio de Janeiro ),  while smoking his cigarette, he puffed out some  smoke into the air and said:'God, that's for  you.' He died at the age of 32 of LUNG CANCER in a horrible manner. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_HIV-positive_people
Guy,  the dude was bi-sexual and had HIV, he died from complications resulting from a poor immune system and opportunistic diseases,  this guy had it coming and God could care less if he was Bi-sexual or puffing smoke at him.  God is beyond that and can accept you as long as you are born-again. Nezan,  try to seek facts before posting


The man who built the Titanic After the construction of Titanic, a reporter asked  him how safe the Titanic would be,  With an ironic tone he said:  'Not even God can sink it  The result: I think you all know what happened to  the Titanic 

Again,  you persists in shallow arguments, it is a known fact that the Titanic, beyond the captain ignoring 4 Warnings of ice bergs or floating blocks of ice, the ship was never tested and it,  well read the full list of mistakes for yourself here http://thelongestlistofthelongeststuffatthelongestdomainnameatlonglast.com/how48.html

Marilyn Monroe (Actress)  She was visited by Billy Graham during a presentation of a show. He said the Spirit of God had sent him to preach to her. After hearing what the Preacher had to say, she  said:  'I don't need your Jesus'.  A week later, she was found dead in her apartment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marilyn_Monroe#Death_and_aftermath
Bon Scott (Singer) The ex-vocalist of the AC/DC. On one of his 1979 songs he sang:  'Don't stop me; I'm going down all the way, down the  highway to hell',  On the 19th of February 1980, Bon Scott was found dead, he had been choked by his own vomit.

Nezan. i am sure that you did not post this yourself. because it stinks with biased reporting and deliberate exclusion of the truth which is very un-christian if i might add. here is an excerpt of the official story

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bon_Scott#Death
[b]Campinas (IN 2005)  In Campinas   , Brazil a group of friends, drunk, went to pick up a friend,    The mother accompanied her to the car and was so worried about the drunkenness of her friends and she said to the daughter  holding her hand, who was already seated in the car:  'My Daughter, Go With God And May He Protect You, She responded: 'Only If He (God) Travels In The Trunk, Cause Inside Here, It' s Already Full ' Hours later, news came by that they had been  involved in a fatal accident, everyone had died,  the car could not be recognized what type of car it had been, but surprisingly, the trunk was intact. The police said there was no way the trunk could  have remained intact,  To their surprise, inside the trunk was a crate of eggs, none was broken.[/b]

Seriously!!! I mean SERIOUSLY!!! this has got to be one of the most played out religious hoax on the internet, even the brazilian authorities have come out to say they have no records for this guy, no families and definitely no record of this wierd-out accident NEZAN is posting about. It is a SIN to propagate lies

even google crashed when i tried to ascertain this fake fact.

  Christine Hewitt (Jamaican Journalist and entertainer) said the Bible (Word of God) was the worst book ever written.  In June 2006 she was found burnt beyond recognition  in her motor vehicle.


Now this is a really low blow for Christiandom. how can you insinuate that God sent a bunch of toked-up jamaican drug dealers to kill this woman? that is sooo. sick i mean even for christians.

http://www.jamaica-star.com/thestar/20060630/news/news1.html

And the moral of the story is,  never copy and paste without verifying

is the above not simply RIDICULOUS.

The OP made a post that illustrates the ill effect of mocking God, with the sole aim of educating others about the inherent dangers involved. All u have done is not to refute any of the facts but diminish the possibility those actions being of God. . . .a feat u failed at.

The imminent poser remains that what EXACTLY happened to God's liberty to do as He pleases. . . . . I hate hearing arguments influenced by illiteracy  

MyJoe:
It is neither a beautiful piece nor by Nezan. This is a rancid brew of outright lies, half-truths, tall contradictions, exaggerations and superstitions. I run a book editing outfit and have personally worked on more than one Christian book where this is pasted verbatim. It was compiled by someone – T D Jakes? Not sure. At the end there is an exhortation Nezan did not include that you should voice an 8-second prayer and send the message on. Obviously our Nezan realizes an insincere prayer is weightier than “mocking” God like Lennon did?

I if I were you, I would not make too much of it as its is author has. The Almighty God so thin-skinned he would do bolekaja with atheists just to prove a point? Someone has since asked why God waited 15 years to kill John Lennon. How many of you even know the context in which Lennon made those statements or the fact that he later apologized for them on American television to appease the fundamentalist American Christian gang? And, by the way, what about all the people that have "mocked" God and didn't die. Or didn't “mock” God but were shot – like Martin Luther King, Jr?

There’s a story the author of this stuff omitted. Madeleine Murray O'Hare, wasn’t it, who went out during a thunderstorm screaming a challenge at God to strike her down if He existed. Of course nothing happened to her. But she was murdered five decades later. God at work, abi? Include it.
Excellent piece. What I understand from it is that folks should pay attention to the more important things. Resorting to anecdotes to prove or disprove the existence of God is not one of them and does not work.

1. This piece has been in circulation on the internet for ages . . . but no one posted it on the forum. . .nezan did. . . .kudos to him for that.

2. again u speak with a vain and beclouded world view. it still remains the perrogative of God to do as He pleases. show mercy unto whom He pleases cos its not of he that willeth or runneth but of the Lord that sheweth mercy. What all of the above people have in common is their fame and willingness to openly mock God. This illustrates that they knew who God was and chose to disbelieve to the extent of publicly mocking Him. they would not be the first or the last.

3. quite unlike your distorted analysis. God is not a manual or text book that has a finite/limited or defined way of doing things. that explains why we say that His ways are numerous. So God's decision to strike one mocker today, another mocker 15 years later or to spare a mocker is not dependent on your flawed understanding of God, your preconceived notions or dogmas or your inherent misunderstanding of God's will.

4. again u goofed in the marthin luther king scenario. I ask u, what does the will of God entail? do u know if marthin had done all that God required of Him and His time was up?
True xtians do NOT fear death. . . . .for death is described as an ENEMY of Jehovah and the last enemy to be destroyed.
true xtians learn to submit and live by the will of God. . .do u know the will of God for martin?

[quote author=Tudór link=topic=366383.msg5116899#msg5116899 date=1260880122]The way you consistently lie and misrepresent me is sinful, isn't it?
Why bother with constituted authority and the human judicial system since according to mr easy logic the judiciary of christ the the ultimate in perfection.

Even your lying faith recognises humans are capable of according justice and we need no magician in the sky to help. . . .what does that say about religion?What the fuadck is noetic talking about? [/quote]blah blah blah. . . .  .I can always expect u to twist ur arguments anytime u are caught out  

Christ judgement is eternal and determines ur fate at eternity. . . .human judgement is for here and determines the pathway of ur definite life.
why is this reality so obscure for u, tudor?  

Are you now saying that during the era of the law there was nothing like eternal life /after life and every dead soul remained dead?

Noetic. . . .noetic. . . .noetic. . . .ha!!

yes bro, every soul that died before the coming of Christ remained dead. . . oyedepo should have taught u that  

There is hope in trying to make the world a better place for your fellow man and future generations rather than doing good because you want to be rewarded by a dead carpenter with white robes and the boring job of singing praises for eternity like a retar.d.

A man who does good for the sake of humanity expecting no reward is a NOBLE MAN. A far cry from the selfishness promoted by religions. How many religious people will do good if they learnt there was no eternal reward whatsoever?

We have our very own judicial system right here on earth and its far more effective.

What is so perfect about a judicial system that allows hitler or ethnic hutus to continue slaughtering people. . . . .infact the allied nations and the UN shouldn't have intervened but waited for the judicial system of christ (the best of all) and allow hitler and the genocidal murderers run riot until everybody is dead then christ can come judge us all. . . .how daft is that?

1. The way u twist analogies to suit ur dogma is fast becoming uninteresting.
Since according to ur post u believe that Christ would one day return to judge the world. . , .then u should also abide by His word that commands that all men submit to governing authorities romans 13:1.

2. And quite unlike ur false innuendos. . . . .during the era of the law, people lived and did good in honour and service of God, yet there was no promise of eternity awaiting them.

@ Nezan
beautiful piece.

P.S I hope our own resident mockers would learn.

TV01:
Sorry sir, doctrine is not dereived on a "makes sense" basis or based on a "strong argument" - be that on the seeming merits of the case, or the force with which it is made.

This is irrelevantly dogmatic. Tithing is biblical. . . , and there are also biblical precedents. The bone of contention is whether or not tithing is a compulsory injunction.
No its not. . .but does that make tithing criminal. . .NO.

At best. But if properly understood, one would realise it misses the point - so much so as to be pointless.

on what basis is the above made?
Tithing by Abraham reflects honour to God. is honouring God now a pointless venture?

Perhaps one of the biggest errors/untruths in Christendom. The gospel does not require money to spread. Although, religious - or any - organisations require money in order to survive, grow and dominate.

Needless to say, the error above is to a great extent supported by and tied too the deceptive teaching around tithing.

God bless
TV

You have no understanding of the inherent truths in xtianity or a relationship with God. There is nothing that u have that should be so scared for u, that u cannot honour God with.
That explains why God demanded Isaac for sacrifice and Abraham obliged.

Tithing remains optional. . . , but all saints MUST honour God with all that they have.

@ Mazaje

I laugh Grin Grin. . . .Flawed human reasoning eh? And your evidence to show that your god has a superior reasoning capability that is greater than that of humans is?. . . . .Human's have flawed reasoning capabilities yet it is ONLY humans and their flawed reasoning capabilities that this god uses all the time to execute his perfect will that is flawless? This all-powerful god who is alleged to be the creator of flawed human is also TOTALLY dependent upon flawed, puny humans and their flawed reasoning to carry out its every wish. It is they who burned heretics and killed infidels and persecuted unbelievers on its behalf, who conducted its "holy wars" to spread its worship or tell others about his will, who convert pagans, build churches or place of worship, hospitals and schools, use their flawed reasoning to find out everything they can about the earth and universe, Use their flawed reasoning to explain to each other how this god supposedly created the earth and the universe and try to explain it to themselves. This all-powerful creator god can do absolutely nothing except work inside people's heads and on their minds which is full of flawed reasoning to execute its wishes. We have never seen it do anything else on its own beside relying on the flawed humans are their flawed reasoning to do everything for it.

ur argument holds no water.

1. God's ability to influence His creaton should not be difficult to understand if one acknowledges that He is the creator. what should be the relationship between a creator and His creation? besides what do u understand by the will of God? how does God's will for man on earth become "sacarstic" for involving the same man who is the beneficiary in the process.

2. how does God depend on humans? all u have said are a desperate recount of anti-God atheistic choruses. . . . .God's design was/is for man to have dominion and live in a sin-less world, thereby having a relationship with His creator. what do u understand by dominion?

3. would it not be ridiculously inept for a creation to be as a intelligent as his creator? can u, mazaje, make a better version of urself?
This explains the rationale of a human with flawed reasoning abilities and a super-intelligent God.

And your evidence to show that this god is capable of preventing evil is?. . . . . .

on what authority and in what capacity do u dismiss the millions of testimonies all over the world?

What about Natural evil like Volcano, earth quakes, diseases, tsunamis, mudslides etc? How were they created by men? As a father its good to teach your son lessons about decorum but will you stand and watch a building collapse on your child even when you have the ability to stop it? Will you stand and watch a stray bullet kill your child even when you have the ability to stop it?

1. they are the prophetic words that reveal the events of the last days. . .read mathew 24.

2. on one hand u claim there is no God, on another hand u accuse Him of the evil in the world. Let me use this medium to shed some light on these issues.
A. there is nothing called EVIL. . . . .evil is a word used to describe the absence of God's will and presence. once Adam and Eve sinned, death/evil entered the world. . they were exposed to the naked world and its inherent "realities". Sin is also simply the disobedience of God's commandments.
If u dont believe that Adam and Eve's sins is the source of evil as we have it today. . then u should not also believe that there is anything called evil.

Ok so your god made a consious choice not to prevent the evil that befall on his beloved children eh? Interesting. . . .

u keep missing the point.

The major ontological attribute of any living being/entity is the liberty to make choices. why is God's liberty to make His choices a subject of concern to ur analyses.
We do know according to the psalmist that the thoughts of God are very deep. . . . . .that way a true xtian learns to submit to the will of the father.

Your child will definitely wonder why he should call you father if he truly knows that you have the ability to stop a stray bullet from hitting him as a result of a shooting that has nothing to do with him or stop a building from collapsing on his head but refused to do so despite you claming that you love him and will always protect him. . . .Dense indeed. . . . .

considering David's initial response. . . . I find ur response here irrelevant. I think the choices here are straight forward.

Epicurus was not even arguing against the christian god, He was arguing against the existence of the greek god/gods as described by the proponents of that god hypothesis. . . .And amongst the attributes of these god/gods were the promise to protect people from evil if they believe. . .So the question is of what use is a god that promises to protect people but fails? Even your bible makes a taller claim by promising people protection. . . .It even says that people that believe shall drink poison and not be hurt, snakes shall bite people and nothing will happen to them. . .That is not what we see around no? So of what use are all these promise of protection believers bandy about when the evidence seen around contradict their claims and hypothesis?. . . .

This is both escapist and of no effect.

1. from the OP, we can deduce that the context of the quote in use here is for God and not the greek gods as u would have us believe.

2. ur theological understanding of protection is deeply flawed. what protection did God promise? protection from what? how does God's will relate to this promise?
mazaje, faith issues are not subjects related to rocket science.

@ Deepsight

I feel for u. . .ur soul must be troubled.
This is probably the 100th time u are bringing up this Ghandi issue.

KunleOshob:
It is clear that any pastor that twists/manipulate scripture is fake, hence any pastor that preaches the false and herectically greedy doctrine of compulasry tithing must most definitely be a FAKE.

is this a joke or what?
cant u see that u are pushing this tithing thing too far? . . , . . . . . . , there is a lot of sense in the pro-tithing argument too. tithing remains an optional thing. . .but every xtian must be financially commited to the spread of the gospel.

mazaje:
You don start abi? . . . What's up my man haven't been seeing you on the blog these past days. . . Hope you are good?

lol I am cool, been very busy lately. how have u been? . . . . hope u are doing well?

mazaje:
The statement highlighted above is very false. . .The modern Cargo ship measures between 275 and 335 m there is a very great difference between 275/335 to 157(Alleged size of the Noah's ark). How exactly can 125,000 sheep size animal fit into a ship of that size? . . . .By the way some one tried to make a ship the size of the Ark described in the bible and with the same dimensions but the problem is that it did not float. . . .

can a modern cargo hold 522 railroad box cars?

KunleOshob:
@explosive
Tonyet has a way of reading his bible up side down whilst panel beating it to suit pre-conceived notions.

so kunleOshob is the same person as Explosive . . . .I laugh in hebrew

@ OP

islam is the only religion u are allowed to kill for allah, marry 4 wives, practice paedophilia, tighing and terrorism . . . . .and allah still puts u in hell.

wirinet:
It seems you do not assimilate what other people write before responding with your pre-recorded response. I have told you again and again that the total volume of water on earth is constant since after the formation of the earth and all the free hydrogen combined with all the free oxygen to form water. If you want to increase the total volume of water on earth, you will have to manufacture it by bringing  in free hydrogen and free oxygen and combine them.
Seeding does not manufacture H₂0 from O₂ and H₂, it only changes the state of Gaseous water (water vapour and clouds) to liquid water. I honestly cannot explain this any further. If you still do not get it, then too bad.

if u still dont get the logic behind my argument on the water question. . . then I cant help.

Thanks for the verses, now let me do the conversion to units i could understand;
1 cubit = 0.51562metres from http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_meters_in_one_cubit

Therefore the dimensions in metres is 154.686 length, 25.781 breadth and 15.4686 height.

In comparism the legth of the Titanic was 269m, breadth was 28m and height was 10.3m

Given this dimensions it is impossible for the ark to accommodate members one family not to talk of all the species of animals on the planet then.

your posers have been answered here:

A cubit is the distance between an adult's elbow and tip of the finger, generally 18-inches. Most Hebrew scholars believe the cubit to have been between 17½ -21½ inches long. This means that the ark would have been 450 feet long, 75 feet wide and 45 feet high if the 18 inch cubit was used. If a larger cubit was used it would have been proportionately longer.

The displacement tonnage of the ark, which is the weight of water it would displace at a draught of 15 cubits, would be more than 22,000 tons. By comparison the U.S.S. Salem, a 716-foot-long heavy cruiser commissioned in 1949, has a displacement tonnage of 21,500 tons. The ark's gross tonnage which is a measure of cubic space (100 cubic feet is one gross ton) would be 15,100 tons. The ark's total volume would have been 1,518,000 cubic feet. This would equal the capacity of 569 modern railroad stock cars. The standard size for a stock car is 44 feet long and a volume of 2670 cubic feet. This would make a train more than 5 ½ miles long. The floor space for the ark would be over 101,000 square feet. This would be more floor space than 21 standard college basketball courts. By comparing the measurements of the ark it is easy to see that it would be comparable to today's ocean going vessels. It was probably the largest vessel of its type built until the late 1800's when metal ships were first constructed.

The ark was built on a 1:6 ratio (50 cubits: 300 cubits). The science of naval architecture reveals that the most stable ratio for an ocean going vessel is 1:6. All modern day ocean going vessels use this same length to width ratio. It is estimated that the ark could easily have survived even the largest of ocean waves. If the ark were equipped with a dragging stone anchor, it would have been properly positioned to meet any size ocean wave. The design of the ark would have made it almost impossible to turn over.

source: http://www.biblestudy.org/basicart/sizeark.html

and here:

Size of Noah's Ark
The measurements provided in Genesis are in cubits rather than feet or meters. A cubit in the Old Testament is approximately 17.5 inches long. Another measurement to consider is the Egyptian Royal cubit which is 20.65 inches. As mentioned earlier, Moses is credited as being the author of Genesis. Since Moses was educated in Egypt we should consider the Egyptian cubit, as well as the Hebrew cubit. Hebrew common cubit = 17.5 in. Egyptian Royal cubit = 20.65 in.

Ark Measurements Cubits Hebrew Cubits to ft/m Royal Cubits to ft/m
Length 300 437.5 ft (133.35 m) 516.25 ft (157.35 m)
Width (Beam) 50 72.9 ft (22.2 m) 86 ft (26.2 m)
Height 30 43.75 (13.3 m) 51.6 ft (15.7 m)

The ark has the same cargo capacity of a modern cargo ship. The above figure shows a comparison with a 550 ft long cargo ship. The ark had a volume of 1.4 million cubic feet and a gross tonnage of 14,000 tons. This is the equivalent of 522 railroad box cars. The ark could have carried over 125,000 sheep-sized animals. Interestingly, there are less than 18,000 species of land animals alive today. Also, the average size of most animals is less than that of a sheep.

source: http://www.genesisfiles.com/NoahsArk.htm

OLAADEGBU:
My beloved brother in Christ, the idea of a lucifer flood came from the gap theorists who try to put the fall of Satan in this supposed period.  What they don't realise is that any rebellion of Satan and his angels during this so called gap of time in Genesis 1:2 contradicts God's description of His completed creation on Day 6 when God said it was "very good" (Genesis 1:31).  What these Gappists don't realise is that if all the angels were a part of the original creation, as Exodus 20:11 indicates and Colossians 1 seems to confirm, then everything God had created by the end of the sixth day was "very good."  There could not have been any rebellion before this time.  So Satan must have fallen some time after Day 7.  For more details check this link below:

Gap theories

thanks  

manmustwac:
well[b] i believe that religion has a role to play in our spiritual bankruptcy[/b] because the masses have resigned themselves to fate and believe that only god can solve africa's problems. Faith and the motivational messages from our pastors give the masses the strengh to endure their suffering and makes them think of the next life in Heaven.

is this not a meaningless self-contradiction? is religion and spirituality not interconnected?
u cannot however place the failure of visionary leadership at the feet of religion alone in africa. . . . , are all africans religious people? are there not more religious people in america than in nigeria?

interesting thread. . . , .watching for updates

C2H5OH:
why are you taking snide shots at igbo people like that

Banom and Aloy-Emeka must not see ur post

wirinet:
How can the total volume of water on the earth's surface triple without the need for extra water coming in?
What has seeding have to do with the total volume of water (ice, liquid and gaseous) on the earth's surface. As i stated earlier the total quantity of water on earth is constant.
Seeding is used to condense water vapour in the atmosphere into liquid water( rain), it does not manufacture water from its constituent elements.

1. You have not established why the flood would require extra water. your submission is based on the assumption that 1.36 million-trillion of water as found on the earth is not sufficient to cause a global flood based on the present state of the earth. your assertion and assumption is false. First we know from biblical submissions that the earth at the time of noah was a glorified village without the development it presently has. Given the state of the earth at time of noah there was enough water to flood the entire earth.

2. u ignored the point made by citing seeding. The seeding technique that manipulates rainfall is a testimony to the other limitless techniques yet unknown that can manipulate rainfall.

3. if u claim that there was a global flood. . .where was the boundary of the flood? how was it determined?

Please can you educate me on the exact size of the ship?

Good u asked. . ,  .  Genesis 6:14-16
14Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.

15And this is the fashion which thou shalt make it of: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits.

16A window shalt thou make to the ark, and in a cubit shalt thou finish it above; and the door of the ark shalt thou set in the side thereof; with lower, second, and third stories shalt thou make it.

I want you to explain how plants could survive being submerged in water for so long.

what stops plants from surviving?

@ OLAADEGBU

In 2 Peter 3, the coming judgment by fire is likened to the former judgment by water in Noah’s Flood. A partial judgment in Noah’s day, therefore, would mean a partial judgment to come. This was not referring to any pre-adamic Flood that they called Lucifer Flood.

where did u get the idea of a pre-adamic flood or a lucifer flood from?

viaro:
@noetic15, it's alright to disagree with my position; afterall, even Scripture recognizes that believers can disagree on a number of issues having to do with interpretations of certain texts to understand our world and experiences (see Php. 3:15 - 'f in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.')

So, when I state my position on these things, what would make for more cogency is for my fellow discussants to look at what was said, examine my questions and objections, consider the case set forth in my defence, and show me where wrong inferences were made. That is what I have done with posts by OLAADEGBU, modupe01, and a few others on this question of YEC/YUC.

Indeed, I would have loved to show you the deixis of the Genesis narrative, but of what use would that be since you have already written it off as impossible? It certainly would be a waste of time - both yours, mine and our readers - if I were to take up that point at anytime for your consideration. That was why I left it there in brief and invited OLAADEGBU about it this way: "Theologians are no strangers to the deixis of Biblical documents as well other ancient writings. That's a point I'd be glad to expatiate on if need be - just ask." Since he prefers posting obvious lies about volcanoes from HMM instead of using his own God-given intelligence, I concluded it would be a waste of time as well to pound the deixis of Genesis at his door.

point noted.

Yes, I am a Christian, but not one who likes to put words in God's mouth and make statements on His behalf that He did not commission me to do.

I've given hints as to why a global catastrophe would mean that you would not be here today: environmental dynamics. The way YEC/YUC argue a cataclysmic global flood for Noah is amazingly (and brazenly) shallow! A combination of tsunamis, earthquakes and volcanoes happening simultaneously around the world for several days with such fluidity of a global flood would wipe out even those in the Ark! Noah's ark would simply be match sticks in such an environment. Anyone who understands even a little of environmental dynamics would have no problems understanding why you, noetic, would not have been here today.

I would go through ur submissions as soon as I am able to . . , , and will let u know why I agree/disagree with ur position on these.

toneyb:
This statement is FALSE. Do you know what Hydrodynamic sorting is? Hydrodynamic sorting proves hands down that the Noah's food NEVER occurred. Unless you wish to change the law of gravity, if you mix fossils and sediments with water, certain things have to happen. Lots of geological evidence regarding hydrodynamic sorting proves that a global flood did not occur.

with due respect and no offence intended, . . . ur submissions are meaningless unless u explain how the concept of hydrodynamic sorting dismisses the case of a global flood.
I could as well say that . . .have u read the book of Genesis, the book establishes the case of a global flood.

wirinet:
There are numerous scientific notions that dismisses the case for a global flood

I would love to be educated. . . . why not list them out.

. One i have already put forward that no Christian is ready to answer is, Where did all the extra water come from?

The average depth of the oceans today is approximately 4km. For water to cover mount Everest of almost 8,900 m or 8.9km, we would need almost twice the quantity of water we have on the earth oceans today. Now the total amount of water on the earth is constant, and hydrological cycle is relatively stable, meaning water from the oceans evaporates and later falls back on earth in the form of rain and snow. The snow sometimes accumulates in the frozen ice caps of Antarctica and arctic. Even if all the snow at the ice caps should melt, it would raise world sea level by less than 5meters. So where did the extra water come from?

ur question is based on the premise that there was a need for extra sea water. . . no there was none.

We understand by scientific injunction that rain falls by water held in the atmosphere by means of precipitation. We also know that rain is created by a process called seeding.
Rainfall is also HEAVILY dependent on the temperature prevalent at the said season. Given the three notions above. . . . .the possibility of a flood filling the earth is amazingly alarming.

Also when u consider that seeding is a new technology used in advanced countries. . . . it begins to highlight the limitless possible sources of rainfall our limited understanding cannot gasp.

Also after flooding the world, where did the extra water disappear to. Since water cannot leave the earths surface, where did the water go.

and why is it impossible for the biblical account of the water drying up to be impossible?

Also these people do not understand the shear quantities of species on the earths surface. The total number of species of birds known today is about 9,000. The approximate number for insects is over 750,000. And a guess of the total specie of mammals is about 3,500. Snakes number more than 2000. And we have not even added the hundreds of thousands of animals that have gone extinct.
So how is a single ship able to cater for the shear number of animals? Even the titanic was only able to carry 2,340 people.

did u bother to check the size as stated by the bible?

Then there is the question of how the animals were able to feed and drink water. Maybe extra rats and lizard was brought along to feed the cobras. and extra goats were brought in for the two lions. What of hygiene, how were they able to answer the call of nature.

Then what about the plant? why do you people not provide answers as to how Noah was able to preserve plants, because the flood would also wipe out plants.

please read the biblical account before making submissions. . . . the bird that was let out eventually found a tree to rest on. . .implying that plants survived the flood.

viaro:
@OLAADEGBU,

As earlier, I maintain my solid belief in the Biblical declaration that there was a Noahic flood; but even so, I also believe that such a narrative be understood within the context of its deixis - which is reference to 'the personal, temporal or locational characteristics of a situation'. Theologians are no strangers to the deixis of Biblical documents as well other ancient writings. That's a point I'd be glad to expatiate on if need be - just ask.

Please let's not get confused with your sweeping generalizations. If the flood was "God's judgement on sin" as you supposed, you should be asking yourself why sin was not eradicated at the time of Noah's flood but has survived down through history to this day! Is it not remarkable that Noah and his family fell into sin the very moment they came out of the Ark?

I disagree with ur position here and would like for u to educate my ignorance concerning the submissions above.

1. the explicit biblical language that supports a global flood CANNOT be excused on the premise of linguistic deixis. The biblical narrative was clear about a global flood.
if the flood was not global, then it means that biblical chronological analogy of man traced to Adam is not true? who then is the father of all men?
ur assumption that the flood was not global is probably based on the assumption that the entire earth was was as developed as it is now. . no it was not, it was simply a glorified village.

2. God's intent was NEVER to eradicate or expunge sin from the world. This is because sin was NEVER manufactured in the first place. sin is a product of disobedience. disobedience is a rational choice by humans. . . . . .as such we have to pay the consequences of such sin. "The soul that sinneth will die". the purpose of the flood was to punish the souls who sinned. u simply overcome sin by living by the commandments of God.

My dear friend, you should look at the reference to the 'locational characteristics of a situation' - the deixis of the Genesis narrative and its application in Jesus' statement in Matthew 24:37-39. It is inconceivable that He was looking at a global catastrophy when He declared that the flood came and 'took them all away', and we could discuss this if you may, and try to expound upon the meaning of 'all flesh'.

There is nothing in the statement of Jesus that suggests a local flood. . . except u are infering a nihilant meaning here.

So here, you could at least see that you really have no clue how far reaching a local flood flood can be, talkless of the far reaching consequences of a global catastrophy. If you understand environmental dynamics, a global catastrophe would quite simply mean you would not be here today. More than that, the word 'flood' is often taken for granted by many people who do not realize that they can be caused by various environmental factors and not only by rainfall. It's good that you even mentioned 'volcanoes, earthquakes and tsunamis', but we shall see just what it is you're yapping on about.

ur submission above summarises ur position on the flood IMO.

1. There is NO scientific notion that dismisses the case of a global flood. . all we have are assumptions that hold no credibility since the evidences are not allowed to speak for themselves.

2. The statement in bold is disturbing. That statement limits the ability of God. . .are u a xtian?

mavenbox:
@noetic:

Thanks.

u are welcome. ur posts were rich just like olaadegbu's . , . . .my submission is from my own understanding and is as such not a final authority.

The OP is a rich piece, I recommend to everyone.

@ mavenbox

@Olaadegbu: Many days I wish I could have more than 24 hours, there's always so much to do and so little time (besides wasting a good part of it on this new addiction: Nairaland). So why should God in his omnipotence be limited by this same 24 hour day?

The way I understand those Genesis days is this:

Each "day" started when God decided to continue the work.

Each day ended immediately God saw that it was good. Then Night came.

On the 7th "day", it started when God decided to take a break as a symbol to mankind that rest is important.

When he was done resting, the seventh day ended because its purpose was done.

God was not limited to 86400 seconds, which by the S.I. units is the duration of 794243384928000 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the caesium 133 atom Huh Undecided Undecided

Hey, man, give the Creator some credit!

This is VERY different from man's experience, where the day ends without your control, and whatever you didn't get done will be shifted to the next day.

There are clear indications of nature-control methods like this in places where Jesus, sent of God, interacted with nature. He stepped out onto water, and the water had to hold him up, it didn't consult the laws of surface tension first of all. He spoke to the winds and the waves. He told his disciple to get a coin from a fish's mouth and the fish HAD to swallow the coin (maybe from a fisherman's leaking pocket?) and position itself to be caught.

Nature aligns itself with God's plan, God does not squeeze into nature's box.

u did quite well on this thread until u got to this post.

1. The bible was written for man's comprehension and so was the creation of the earth. A day in genesis 1 is simply 24 hours. God was not limited to 24 hours but He conciously chose to do each piece of work and how each was to be made in 24 hours. God could have spoken man to existence. . .but He chose not to.
the first thing God did was to define what a day means right after declaring that "Let there be light". . why then would God not work by His own definition of a day.

2. ur information on the age of adam is FALSE. u can argue that by sinning, Adam was destined to die. . .but u cannot argue that the garden of eden of was a timeless zone. Far from it, the age of adam is known from the point of creation to the point of birth of seth. 130 years, . . . Gen 5:2-3 does justice to that.

3. Adam was the first man to be made, but there was a pre-adamic era. The bible was clear about this that the earth became formless and void because lucifer had rebelled and fallen. That explains why I believe that Genesis verse 1 and verse 2 did not happen simultaneously.

4. Based on the knowledge we have. . . . .the age of the earth is not far from the assumed.

Horus:
When Indian people come to England or any European country, they build and open Temples or shrines. When Chinese people come to England or any European country they build and open Temples or shrines; But when African people come to England or any European they build Churches and worship the images of their former slave masters. The Indians and Chinese have unity amongst themselves , they also have a good economy , Chinese is going to be the next super power ,forget America. These countries India and China have also gone nuclear , they worship their own images (their ancestors) who work for them. The Europeans have religion, however, it does not stop them from working together. They have european union (which is the european community = common unity). But black africans are still fighting and arguing over a religion that does not belong to them. Many Nigerians for example will not work with you if you have a different religion. It was many years ago that Bob Marley sang emancipate ourselves from mental slavery , yet our people are still mentally enslaved. We are the only species on earth that will side another species against their own. You will not see a Chinese person side with a Hindu against another Chinese, neither will you see an Hindu side with a Chinese against another Hindu. You will not see a Cat side with a dog against another cat, neither will you see a dog side with a cat against another dog. You will not see a rat side with a cat against another rat, neither will you see a cat side with a rat against another cat. We black are the only species on the planet that will side with another species, be it Asian, Caucasian or Arab against their own. When will we realize we have been tricked with these monothetic religions of Judaism, Islam and Christianity?

this is simply RIDICULOUS . . . .what has the differences or similarities in religious/spiritual beliefs got to do with success or failure? what is the connection between a vision (for an individual or nation) and its religious beliefs?. . . . . . .there is NO sense in the above post.

Pastor AIO:
This is from a thread made Ages ago in the political section by Manmustwac about a problem that I think has a strong basis the spiritual corruption in Africa.  I wrote the following.  I am curious to hear any feedback on the idea.
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=125328.msg2132143#msg2132143

I dont see anything in what manmustwac has said as posted in the OP that suggests that africa suffers from spiritual bankruptcy 
All that was mentioned was a lack of foresight/vision on the part of those who held powerful positions in the continent. what has that got to do with religion/spiritual beliefs? 

why do people post very long OP's . . .why?

debosky:
So I should mark you down in the NO category?

I have come across the news story, but a few emails cannot change independent sets of data held by other scientific bodies.

Yes. . . I belong to the No.

But that indictment involves most of the power brokers. . . , scientists in UK and US. that should tell u something?