Abu Zola:

There are many things mentioned in the Quran that is absent in the bible. So how on earth can one copied a plagarized book, a book of contradiction and fairytale.


Fastidicious xtrian always say that the Quranic prophets or men of God were copied or rather stolen from the bible.
Simple Quest, why is Prophet Hud Quran 7:65-72, 26:123-140 and Prophet shuaib Quran 7:85-93, 11:84-95 absent in the Bible ? This again shows the superiority of the Holy Quran

'The Quran is truth from God' Quran 32:3

the prophets and other things in the koran (and not in the bible) are products of mohammed's imagination.

I was expecting an official thread on this subject. . . . .when do we get to vote on the moderator of the year?

wish u the same bro.

Habib16:

@poster, no be only sicker na sickler. Look at u, ure just a pathetic Slowpoke brainwashed slowpoke. I wont be suprised that ure a Real Pegan. Infact dnt let me speak the nonsence out of u today! I wonder how your parent would look like! Lol, not to talk about your family!! Bursted. Omugo, dadandindin, Omo-ale. I can never be suprised coz your Parent hav already give u out for sacrifice! for new year's ifa sacrifices dats y your speaking all this jargons Malu!

@all Muslims Pls dnt mind these Goats! They said that silent is the best answer to F*****l!

I am sure allah and mohammed must be really proud of u . . , . u made them both proud.

JeSoul:

Far from it Tudor. Infact I know you're very smart. It's just that you allow your intense aversion for religion and christianity to prevent you from being objective on religious issues.

GBAM!!!

P.S his staunch disgust for oyedepo makes him despise anything xtian.

IDINRETE:

I was also taught in my secondary school "that the sun stood still, " in a battle fought by some people. Also that a serpent and a donkey could speak.

ur teachers must have been wise men, .  . since there is no scientifically plausible reason to believe that the sun CANNOT stand still.
It would also amount to lack of intelligence to state that a donkey or serpent cannot talk. . .considering that some people also hear from invisible spirits.

If I were u, I would take the words of those teachers dearly. . .and most importantly they taught u that yorubas migrated from saudi arabia, they came with one of the 360 gods/idols of the city, they left allah behind. . .it was this same allah that mohammed elevated to a global idol.

So touching and even more touching is the fact that they were not miracle seekers but people contended with the love of God . . . . .I am deeply touched but cannot imagine this happening in todays churches.

JeSoul:

As usual, you miss the point entirely.

were u expecting Tudor to get the message?

manmustwac:

Congratulations Abuzola. Stands up and gives Abuzola a standing ovation We all know you worked very hard to earn the award.

Noetic Joins in the standing ovation

toneyb:

. Happy new year Noetic.

Same to u bro. . . how are u? u have not been posting much of late

for the first time in a long time. . . .Tudor is making sensible posts without insults. . . . . may we continue to see this AMEN!!!

Abuzola Congratulations . . . .I hope u win this award for many years to come.

IDINRETE:

Where is your proof of the Yoruba's ancestry link to mecca?

were u not taught in in secondary school?   ask olabs to enlighten u

woye77:

@noetic - i think we are both in agreement on the fact that free will and pre-destination go hand in hand though you seem to have missed my point concerning the issue of Judas and Jesus - according to John 17:12, it had to be someone but it wasn't compulsory that the "one" had to be Judas - Judas nominated himself for the role through his love for money. it could have been any of the twelve disciples but the devil could only find an ally in Judas that was why he (devil) used him

ok.

in the case of Jesus, he was aware of the prophecy that was foretold before he was born but he WAS NOT FORCED by God to follow the path of the prophecy. He could have chosen to go His own way but He deliberately choose to follow God's path for his life - God knew He (Jesus) would fulfil His mission on earth that was why He said 'this is my son, in whom i am well pleased' - The baptism of Jesus was to prepare Him for the task he was to fulfil

with or without the baptism . . . . Jesus could still have done as He pleased. u cannot excuse free-will on the premise of predestination. Just like there was a voice at the baptism of Jesus. . . the same voice has been speaking in the life of millions of believers daily. . .but many choose to go after their own flesh and do things of their own knowledge that contradicts God's will and purpose for them.

In the case of Samson, he fulfiled the will of God for his life because he managed to kill the philistines, he didn't leave Israel in bondage - Samson made mistakes but God still used him to fulfil his mssion

was the will/prophecy of God for samson just to kill philistines or to liberate his people? ,  . .was israel liberated after the death of samson? did the influence of the philistines diminish?

Also pls note afflictions are not from God -they are from the devil but sometimes God may choose to ALLOW (please note the word "allow" them in order to achieve a particular purpose e.g. allowing Jesus to be hanged on the cross

Nope. . . . this is called biblical ignorance.

If u saw my last post . . , I used two key words "Affliction" (which was in quote) and believers

1. Jesus said that the hair on the head of the believers are numbered, He also said that blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness sake, And apostle Paul said that all things work together for good for those who love the Lord. This implies that by spiritual cognizance a TRUE xtian is immune from demonic or satanic attacks. but these attacks do happen with the seal of APPROVAL from God,  to strengthen believers,  .it also explains the establishment of victory in all of such battles from the word of the Lord. The case of Job would make a good case study.

2. I specifically used the word believers in my last post to signify their spiritual ownership as not of the devil but of God.

3. I specifically put the word Affliction in quotation marks to exclude man made and self inflicted afflictions.

4. It was God's will that Jesus be beaten badly that millions of future believers would be healed by His stripe. It was God's will that the church be afflicted with persecution and deaths to put to test the faith of believers.

5. God is the Lord of hosts. and that includes the hosts of Heaven and Hell. . .the hosts of darkness and light.

Chrisbenogor:

You guys are all over the place, IMO both concepts really do not make much sense when fused together, my question goes to noetic though-- So Judas had no choice but to betray Jesus, would he still be punished for that?

I am not the owner of heaven or hell, . neither do I preside over the judgement of men. . . .as such I CANNOT tell.

IDINRETE:


Your claim that history has it that Yoruba came from Meccas is flawed. Can you back up your claim from just one single Odu Ifa that supports that assertion that Yoruba claim from Mecca. Albeit I concur that there are similarities. Ifa did not come from mecca. To your own understanding, they might look alike, however Ifa does not need to be assosciated with quran inorder to be valid.

spare us this fairytale. . . . . .the yorubas have an ancestry link to mecca. I am not surprised that islam is linked to idolatry, after-all allah was also an arabian idol.

justmoore:

silly man! May almighty Allah forgive you because you do not understand what you are talking about. You are talking about the Holy Qur'an what about other religions, better don't talk/start what you do not understand, because I do not know your age that you are talking as if you were there.
If you are to talk about anything better do enough research before you mention what you do not understand. Please! if you are confused ask questions, you'll be enlighten.
Once again, may almighty Allah forgive you for this you've posted and don't dare you post another one in respect of this! ok?
Stay bless

can anyone make sense from the above? this is simply DUMB.

hubreality:

"For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." Matthew 18:20. Yes this gathering will be in my church, Christ Embassy.

since u dont reflect the works of Christ. . . . am I wrong to say Jesus does not come to ur midst at CE?

hubreality:

Where will you be at 31st December night? As for me I love and will cross over to 2010 in God's presence. Where will you be?

do u mean Christ embassy? is that the presence of God?

@ KunleOshob.

1. I do appreciate and support your rigorous and genuine clamour for the TRUTH in the teachings of the gospel in churches as u have repeatedly championed on this forum. I must confess that your rich analyses have been very educating. My criticism is stemed from deep concerns that just as u antagonise others now. . . others have come and also antagonised their predecessors. .  . they have gone ahead to form ministries that became worse off compared to the ones they "rebelled" against. This explains the many ministries in Christiandom today.

2. The dogmatic approach to many xtian subjects makes it refreshing that analyses are being made in a Godly manner to educate the brethren on the subjects of God's word on this forum. . ,  . . . I may not say it often. . but u are doing a great job here.

3. You need to understand the opinion of God on false teachers. It is God's will that false teachers exist, it is God's will that they do all that they do and grow within the church, It is God's will that they deceive as many people as they can ,. . . . .this is simply deduced from
a. mathew 13:24-30 . .  . . . lay particular emphasis on verse 30

24Jesus told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.

27"The owner's servants came to him and said, 'Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?'

28" 'An enemy did this,' he replied.
      "The servants asked him, 'Do you want us to go and pull them up?'

29" 'No,' he answered, 'because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them. 30Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.' "

also read Matthew 13:36–43
b. mathew 24:5
5For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

c. mathew 7:21
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

A_K_O:

@OP, no be only you wey tire. . .
Permit me to reply: Jeremiah spoke God's mind on false prophets in his book, specifically here
23:16 This is what the LORD Almighty says:
       "Do not listen to what the prophets are prophesying to you;
       they fill you with false hopes.
       They speak visions from their own minds,
       not from the mouth of the LORD.

KunleOshob:

@AKO
Thanx for that response but i would like to give three more biblical damnation depicting the mind of God on false prophets

Jeremiah 8:8-10:

    8 “‘How can you say, “We are wise because we have the word of the Lord,”
      when your teachers have twisted it by writing lies?
    9 These wise teachers will fall
      into the trap of their own foolishness,
   for they have rejected the word of the Lord.      Are they so wise after all?
   10 I will give their wives to others
      and their farms to strangers.
   From the least to the greatest,
      their lives are ruled by greed.
   Yes, even my prophets and priests are like that.
      They are all frauds.

Titus 1:11:
11 These false teachers must be silenced, because they are turning whole families away from the truth by their false teaching. And they do it only for money.

2 Peter 2:3:
3 In their greed these false prophets will make up clever lies to get hold of your money. But God condemned them long ago, and their destruction will not be delayed.

I did not not ask for God's opinion on FALSE prophecies, , . . .I asked for His opinion on FALSE TEACHERS

hint: why not search the words of Jesus as recorded in the NT.

Knight1:

@noetic
I believe you know that God has no evil plan for anyone, he has not destined anyone for failure or evil so everybody gets an equal chance. Remember Judas also performed miracles and all that when Jesus sent them two by two, he was not destined to betray Jesus, he chose money over Jesus, exercising his freewill.
As for Paul, immediately after his encounter, you have the following as the scriptural basis

"But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: " (Acts 9:15).

1. depends on what u mean by evil. in Isaiah 14:10, God boldly states that he refines His chosen ones from the furnace of affliction. this shows that 99% of the "afflictions" we go through as believers has the signature of God. . .to prepare u to be the general God called u to be. He also said in psalm 34 that many are the afflictions of the righteous but the Lord delivers Him from them all.

2. whether Judas loved money or not. . , the dude was helpless. Judas was living a life foretold thousands of years before he was born. the inactions of Judas was far beyond Judas. The life of Jesus shows that HE chose carefully every step He took, just to fulfill the word of His father. . . . . . .one can state that there was a spirit from the Lord on Judas that made it inevitable for Judas to betray Jesus.

3. but Paul had the choice of not going. Rome at that time was the world's super-power and had expelled all jews. Paul's going to Rome was a suicide mission. . .just like peters decision to flee the prosecutors until the Lord appeared to him and he turned back to be killed for the sake of the gospel.
The point is that . . . .while predestination is a creed/plan of God, there is the influence of man to determine what can be and what cannot be. . this is called free-will. They go hand in hand and are NOT mutually exclusive.

woye77:

@noetic15
there is a link between free will and pre-destination - God gives us free-will but just like knight1 stated, if you are pre-destined to do something, your decisions will fall in line with the will of God - Jesus had a choice of NOT dying just like you stated BUT God knows everything so God already knew HE WOULD choose to die on the cross - so Jesus had the free will not to die, but God knew He would choose to die - as in the case of Judas, God already knew he would make the wrong decision - it wasn't as if he was condemned to betraying Jesus but God had already given him the free will to make his decisions and once he had chosen to betray Jesus, there was nothing God could do to change that since God allows us free-will

1. you have failed to establish any link between predestination and free-will. Jesus lived His life very very very conscious of the things that have been foretold about Him. Jesus did so many things, just so that the word that preceded his birth by thousands of years could be fulfilled. This simple fact IMO establishes the fact that Jesus could have lived a seperate life than the one ordained by God. This is also applicable to every human being.

2. Your understanding of the Judas story is deeply flawed. please re-read John 17:12. is there any way u can prove that Judas could have refused to betray Jesus?

3. The existence of free-will does not negate or contradict predestination. They go hand in hand. take a look at the life of samson. . .he was predestined to liberate israel from their oppressors. . . . .his predestination was announced in form of a prophecy before his birth by an angel. . . . .samson was born when israel was in bondage. . .he died and also left them in bondage.
how do u explain this predestination that did not work out as stated?

Pastor AIO:

I'm not insinuating anything.  What I've written is very clear, live and direct.  

Jonah and the Whale is the story of Pisces (yes, the astrological sign).  

Forgive my inability to gasp ur point. . . . . does ur post answer YES to my question?

Pastor AIO:

The fact is that almost every other story in Genesis can be found in the mythologies of other peoples all over the world. These mythological patterns are not to be taken as history yet they are true in a different sense.

The writers of the old testament were well aware of what they were doing. They were not trying to lie to people or pull wool over their eyes. They simply were not writing history per se. They knew that the story already existed in sumeria and other places. Furthermore their readers, or listeners, knew that these stories existed already too. What you've got to think is 'what do the stories symbolise?'. What are the writers trying to say?

And please I don't want anyone to come with that dry excuse that the devil knew what God was trying to do so he went back in time and planted fake copies of bible stories in other lands around the world.

That's like saying that the movement for democracy in nigeria was unaware that there was a country called the USA whose political system was called Democracy. No, they were following the pattern of the USA.

The writers of the bible were aware of sumerian and Akkadian myths and they deliberately employed them.

are u insinuating that the biblical version of "events" is a myth?

tax collector

Zodiac61:

It never ceases to amaze me, the gullibility of a lot of people. So, one poster had a healthy baby. So what?? People who do not believe have healthy babies everyday. One poster successfully graduated from university. Congratulations!! So have many other persons without the input of some imaginary being. Someone bought a new car. 

My question is, what has any of the above got to do with god??

Look at the alternatives, the country continues to move from crisis to crisis, hospitals are effectively non existent except for the well-off (pastors and the like). The education system is in  shambles and poverty rules supreme.

What did god do about the poor uneducated masses this year?

This is simply DUMB and RIDICULOUS.

The questions should rather be, what has it not got to do with God? when did people loose the liberty to believe what they want to?

KunleOshob:

Well some of us have consistgently pointed out and written about the fraud going on in christianity today, i write not becos i am proud of it but becos i am deeply ashame and pained at how christianity is being rubbished today and used to exploit people when the christian message is about giving hope to the hopeless and helping those in need around us. Unfortunately, itis our christian leaders who are supposed to lead us aright that are at the helm of distorting the religion. Fruadsters abound in the religion today and some of them are really very convoincing and that is why it would be very diffcult to get the deluded worshippers of crook oyakhilome to see the light. Even Jesus warned that the very elect would almost be deceived how much less the lost souls in all these business centers parading themselves as churches. My advice to all christians is to genuinely seek christ by reading his direct teachings in the bible and abiding by them. You don't need any pastor to tell you the truth.

Let me interrupt you at this point. permit me to ask you. . . .what is the mind of God concerning false prophets?

Knight1:

@pastor AIO
Based on understanding of the scripture and not spurious reason.
Example
1. God predestinated that one of the twelve will betray Jesus, thats a predestinated purpose, however it was not that it had to be Judas, could have been Peter, James, Thomas etc but the choices Judas made i.e love of money that made him the son of perdition

I disagree with your line of argument. can u dispute the fact that Judas was specifically created to betray Jesus. . . . . .such that regardless of his desires, he would still betray Jesus?

2. Apostle Paul was predestinated to carry the Gospel to the heathen, however left to his choices,he probably would never have come close, what happened? A divine interruption occurred that changed the course of Paul's life.
So we are free moral agents, but at some specific situation where God has something particular to achieve, you decisions will just fall in line or divinity steps in.
Based on Scripture.

The above has no scriptural basis. It was not until Paul became a Christian that the Holy spirit asked that he and barnabas be seperated for the Lord's work to the heathen. How then did u come to the conclusion that Paul was predestined for it?
was barnabas predestined to fight paul? was barnabas also predestined to take the gospel to the heathen, why then did he back off?

easylogic:

Predestination and determinism are not the same thing.
Very few Christian theologians beleive that christianity preaches predistanation.Its simply a construct of Evangelists.

God may have a plan for you,but it does not mean that we are predistined.We can choose not to follow God's plan.The theme of free will is all over the bible.

Therefore pointing out the incompatibility of Freewill and Predestination in Christianity, is a strawman.

The above is false. God boldly asserts in jeremiah 29:11 that He has a plan (predestination) for man.

woye77:

@pastor AIO - i agree with knight1 - we have biblical examples e.g. joseph the dreamer was destined to be prime minister of egypt and it came to pass - Jesus Christ was destined to die for mankind and it came to pass - also Judas was destined to betray Jesus - just like knight1 said

u miss the points by a wide margin.

1. Joseph was not destined to be prime minister. His brothers were only destined to bow to him as depicted in his dream.

2. u also forget, that Jesus had the choice of NOT dying.

3. what u fail to do is to construct a meaningful link between predestination and free-will. . . .they are NOT mutually exclusive.

Abu Zola:

The promise of Allah is true just like he prophesized the birth of jesus and the ruin of Israel and it came to past so was how he prophesized the globalization of a single religion which is islam

do u know I missed u so much?

tell umaru to first give his life to Christ

all we are saying . . . . .ABUZOLA PLS COME BACK

Nairaland has been boring since ur absence. The likes of Deepsight, mavenbox, Jesoul et all have been bombing us with big big words and arguments . . . .we miss ur usual dose of unlimited comedy.

congrats muhsin