₦airaland Forum

mazaje:
What evidence exactly? You have NEVER persented any evidencve to show that the god you talk about exist at all, all you do is offer special pleading and point to the existence of other things as evidence for the existence of your god but the problem is that what we see around are evidence for environment NOT evidence for your god. . . .your god has clearly defined attribute written in the bible and that we do not see around at all. . . . .even christians do not agree on the BASIC nature of who this god you talk about is and that is a FACT. You talk about evidence but you never talk about if your god is detectable. . . Is your god dectable? Do you detect him because he is there or because you have been brought up and indoctrinated to detect and believe in what is not there?

If this god you guys talk about is detectable, shouldn't everyone who detects it be able agree about its properties? It should be as simple as agreeing about properties of gravity, no?

Why would there be need for 35,000 different christian denominations each fighting with each other over meaning of ancient text to show that their god exist?

true indeed.

its a case that God has been substituted in ur limited understanding for environment. Its amazing that many of us can still distinguish between the hands/work of God and the ontology of an environment. it would be fun to know how the environment kick started life and what EXACTLY preceded the environment. I await ur answers in deep breadth.

Do you have any evidence to show that there is an old man in the sky? Which part of the sky does he reside in? How come your old only exist ONLY on the pages of ancient text? The worst problem for christians and other religionist is that your bible(koran etc) are all there for people to read and any body that reads them know that they are exactly the thoughts, wishes, mythologies, fantasies of OTHER MEN who wrote down their history and geneologies according to their world view and understanding of things nothing more. . . .You have NO evidence for a jewish old man floating in the sky all you have are your own assumptions and the assumptions of others that have been indoctrinated into you as a result of emotion, social and societal upbringing. . .

.

the above is irrelevant to the discourse.

I have asked u to show any reason why life as we see it today does not require an intelligent being to exist.

The day you provide a single scientific evidence to show that your god exist is the day some of us will begin to take you as a serious person. . . .

please permit my sarcasm. . . but the above is gullible.
what other scientific evidence do u require? is reproduction or the photosynthetic "tools" (including the sun and rainfall) not verifiable?

There are millions of young earth creationist that believe that the world is about 6000 years old. . . .So the question is why would your god allow some of the people that believe in him to believe that the earth is about 6000 years old when its not? The problem is that your god is just not there and every body is self projecting himself as god using the bible and the assunptin that the god it talks about is true to create their own world view. . . .Why do christians not agree on anything? We have young earth creationist, those that believe in a global flood and those that don't and each of them use the bible to support their postulations. . . .Why all the confusion? Even the basic nature of the christian god is not even agreed upon by christians themselves? What does that tell you? It tells me that the god you guys are trying to sell is just not there. . . .

1. what happened to God's liberty to do things as He pleases. The last time I checked, u were not compelled to post on this forum, u did so at ur own liberty.
So if God inspires men to write words of wisdom and salvation and also inspires men to teach such words, . . . why do u have a problem with the liberty of God?

2. almost on every thread u sing about how God should not be this or that. . , . . ur position reflects ur individual and personalised definition of God. unfortunately ur understanding of God has been rebuffed severally to be untenable. . . . . yet u keep . . . . .

manmustwac:
What evidence do you have to prove that intelligent being created the World?

how many evidences do u want?

based on the premise of alternatives. . .we can start by saying that there is NO basis to assume/believe that the earth as we see it is a random occurrence or a product of evolution/bigbang.

with that in mind we can look at evidences from every day life , . including
a. reproduction. the ability of man to reproduce and not to evolve can only be credited to the art of creation.
b. time. the notion of time is interesting . . . it is more interesting to know that time as we know of it has a beginning. the beginning points to a period in time when life kick started.
life as we know of it today is of an intelligent form. . . . .it would require a more intelligent being to create an intelligent life. the complexity of species rules out the possiblity of all species evolving from a denominator. the diversity of all living things buttresses the notion of an intelligent being to see through the beautiful visualization of life as we currently see it.
c. evolution. it is very disturbing that man has "stopped" evolving. why do all men die and not evolve?
d. biblicel/creation notions. The intelligent being who created the earth stated His case in the bible. It might intreast u to know that most of these claims recorded in the bible in antedeluvian age are verifiable in this new era of scientific knowledge.
the photosyntetic nature of the gardden of eden, the irrigation, cultivation and general farming modus operandi for the garden, the art of creating light et all . . . .points directly to this.

u might want to look at this thread where I answered all ur posers already: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-299040.0.html

What has Athiesm got to do with Faith? You don't even know what the word faith means. I got on a train last week i picked up a discarded newspaper i was reading an aricle about a russian hunter who stumbled across some bones that turned out to belong to a dinosaur that went extinct about 250 millon years ago. Thats what i call facts evidence and simple logic to believe that its true not faith

what is this? did I write in russian?

if atheism has no connection with FAITH. . .what EXACTLY is ur evidence that suggests that there is no God.

Well don't tell me that the Earth is 250 million years old or 4 billion years old. According to biblical calculations the age of the earth can be estimated by taking the first 5 days of creation (from earth’s creation to Adam), then following the genealogies from Adam to Abraham in Genesis 5 and 11, then adding in the time from Abraham to today.

Adam was created on Day 6, so there were 5 days before him. If we add up the dates from Adam to Abraham, we get about 2,000 years, using the Masoretic Hebrew text of Genesis 5 and 11.3 Whether Christian or secular, most scholars would agree that Abraham lived about 2,000 B.C. (4,000 years ago).

So a simple calculation is:

5 days
+ ~2000 years
+ ~4000 years
______________
~6000 years

this is not rocket science. . . . .just tell me how many years lie between genesis1:1 and genesis 1:2?

abuzola999:
Quran 19-

71- there is not one of you but will pass over it (hell), this is with your Lord a Decree which must be accomplished

72- Then We shall save those who used to fear Allah and were dutiful to Him and We shall leave the sinners therein to their knees (in hell)'

note: over hell and verse 72 says Muslim will be saved from it

why would u trust allah to remove u from hell. . .when he forcefully/knowingly placed u there in the first place?

abuzola999:
May God 4gve u, ok where is the verse, show me, am going to refute it now simple as that

are u blind? read my last posts . . . .

abuzola999:
U are too dull, how many times have i refuted your dumb statement.

1. I am smarter than mohammed and allah combined together.

2. u have NEVER refuted it. how can u refute the words of allah? read surah 19:71

michelin89:
@ Debo

[b]Why do Christians assume that anybody who doesn't believe in God is a fool and actually call you a fool? [/b]That's a childish behaviour. If you can't stand a logical confrontation with me, back off instead of trying to pull me down with insults on my intellect because it clearly shows you lack it instead.

The bible says so in more than 2 places that those who hold such view as ur self are fools. whats the fault of a xtian in reiterating such a biblical view?
aside from that. . . . .objectivity ensures that u are able to stomach contrary opinion. and also when did foolishness or ignorance become an insult?
to be foolish or ignorant is a compliment. . . I only take offence when the person who calls me a fool is not wiser, cannot profer wisdom or the person who calls me an ignoramus is unable to educate my ignorance.

So my dear. .  .A FOOL says in his/her heart that there is  no God.
My wisdom is derived from the evidences (obtained on comparison with the alternatives) that there is a GOD.

abuzola999:
'Don't they know that whoever opposes and shows hostility to Allah and His messenger (Muhammad), certainly for him will be the Fire of Hell to abide therein. That is the extreme disgrace'

Quran 9:63

whats the difference? since all muslims would also be in hell . . . . . .
and morover what happens to thise who show hostility to others in the name of allah and mohammed?

JeSoul:
No Deepsight, remember, he is free!

manmustwac. . pls come and defend ur freedom. it has been challenged by deepSight and Jesoul

manmustwac:
@jagunlabi
i disagree with you because i don't reason that we athiests reason inside an ideological box. The walls of the box have been knocked down the moment u stopped believing in religious dogma. So your reasoning has no boundaries, there are no walls. Its the the theist who believes that an old man created the planet 6'000 years ago who reasons inside the box. And the box is 6000 years in lengh and 6'000 years in width according thier beliefs.

Lets get some things straight. . . . . . .

1. Atheists live in an ideological box. This is simply because in the face of all evidence, they have ruled out the possibility of an intelligent being creating the world. This is called a DOGMA. this is also rather unintelligent as we all can see that the chances of "things" being as they are now without an intelligent old man in the sky are one in infinity.

2. atheism is also a religion. depends largely on ur understanding of a religion. . . .a religion is simply defined by faith. the subject of atheism is the disbelief in the existence of God, this simply requires FAITH as there is no scientific, intellectual or logical evidence that supports this assertion.
So we can infer that an atheist is a religious person who lives in a religious dogma that denies the existence of God, without any scientific knowledge, but based solely on the premise of FAITH.

3. where in the bible did u deduce that the earth was created 6,000 years ago? for all we know. . .there was a time-gap between genesis 1:1 and genesis 1:2
. . .so where did u get ur assertions from?

davidylan:
1 Samuel 16:6 ¶And it came to pass, when they were come,
that he looked on Eliab, and said, Surely the LORD'S anointed
is before him.

7 But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.

GBAM!!!!!! GBAM!!!!!!! GBAM!!!!!!

suzy:
what can a lady do to stop guys from approaching her even when they know she is hooked to some else

guys walk up to u cos u either dress SLUTTY or give encouraging looks.
Guys can be attracted to u and stare. . .but will only take the step once there is a hint of a green light, . . . .except of course u are lying.

JeSoul:
That your "ideological box" may be bigger is of little to no consequence. It's about quality not quantity.

You may have more "headspace" and "wiggleroom" to fit in a smorgasbord of assorted beliefs or lack thereof, but what is it worth if they be of empty of soulful conviction, puffed up but impotent, characterized by an absence of true life-changing power?

We need to lose this false mentation that implies the more you allow in, the better of a human being you are.

chei. . . . .I cant believe this post captures the atheistic ideological box? 

little wonder atheists can die at the word of any scientist . . .   , ignorance and dogmas could be easily disguised.

Ibime:
hehehehehehe. . . . wetin I no go see for NL

exactly my thoughts

Deep Sight:
^^^ Oh, wicked, you, Noetic.

Quick math.

Reconcile these:

"Before Abraham was, I AM".

And -

"The father is greater than i am". . .

"I ascend to my father and your father, my GOD and your God". . .

"Eli Eli. . . _{(allah, allah)"}

when u isolate verses to make an argument . . . . .the above is what u get.

where do u stand? . . . .are u suggesting that the bible is full of contradictions?

Deep Sight:
That shows one of two things -

Either

1. That it is clear that scripture contains massive contradictions OR

2. People are not reading scripture with a compound approach.

Neither is complimentary.

number 2 probably best explains ur approach and use of the scriptures.

[quote author=Okija_juju link=topic=355592.msg4977629#msg4977629 date=1258933857]@ Noetic

Nice to hear from you after so long. I see you are still on the christian high.  [/quote]

mazaje:
No be small thing ohhh. . . .

No mind neotic na that thing wey dem dey call holy ghost wey every sect get him own version wey dey shak am. . . . .

lol

naijababe:
@mazaje
I believe in one God the creator  who created universal rules which all that is created follows. I don't susbscribe to the notion of the absence of evidence = evidence of absence.

This God u believe in. . . . .what does He expect from u to him? what do u expect from him?

naijababe:
I am not given to long post and I am not an atheist but a deist. If  u are really interested here goes the long post I didn't want to write.
I grew up in a family where Islam was practised well, went to Madrasah, read the qu'ran and all. By the time I was 16 I picked up the Hijab and attended Islamic programmes like it was going out of fashion. By the time I was 18 I was interested  in existing only for allah and his prophet. Spent a fortune on Islamic literatures in my quest to be a better muslimah. The doubts started when Islam before and after Hijrah started to unfold and the events after the death of Muhammed proved to be the last straw. Because the idea of not believing in organized religion was alien to me at the time I gave up Islam for Xtianity after almost 2 years of discontent with my faith.

This does not add up. at least not from me.

u left a religion for the other. . .why?
a. did u believe allah was the same person as Jehovah at the point of conversion?
b. what were ur expectations? since u "rationally" became a xtian? were ur expectations met?
c. what substance was missing in the islamic faith that led u to xtianity? what was missing in the xtainity faith that u found in atheism?
d. is ur quest for spiritual insight fulfilled in atheism?

Deep Sight:
^^^ @ Naijababe - once we do not sucscribe to orgarnised religion, but still accept the existence of God, they label us as confused.

I think we are free and true.

very misinforming.

1. xtianity is not a religion.

2. even the devil accepts the existence of God. the question is are u on God's side or the devil?

3. what are u free from? and whats the truth u claim to hold?

P.S atheism is synonymous to ignorance.

Ogaga4Luv:
[size=13pt]noetic15  i have always known you right from when you're Noetic and Noetic2 or something like that , you see i dont waste my time on yahoo to start sending messege without control. . . .i think at first you've got something to discusse and now you want me to mail you.

man,honestly speaking you're always free to be friend and if incase you have something to share with me, then you should kindly mail me. i dont love responding to mails that doesn't mean seriousness.  I cant tell you now if i'w respond mail you but i have already store the contact.[/size]

have u forgotten so fast? . . . . u were going to give information about witches and how to overcome them?. . . and also talk about how God does not help to overcome them.
u promised the poor dude who opened a thread on the subject. . . . . u also refused to give this information publicly. . .so i asked that u e-mail me the solution.

I was simply interested because of the RIDICULOUS assertion u made that God does not help in such instances. All I wanted to do was to refute ur BASELESS claims and ensure that the poor dude does not believe u.

abuzola999:
'Do those who disbelieved think that they can take My slaves (Angels, Jesus, mary, Ezra, sun, etc) as gods besides Me ? Verily, We have prepared Hell as an entertainment for the disbelievers'

Quran 18:102

who is banning abuzola?

Abuzola u need to stop pasting koran verses on every thread. . . .its called spamming.
why not open a special thread where u can dump ur verses. . .then if and when we want to read we will go to the thread.

Chrisbenogor:
Since when did religion and reason start mixing?

the moment atheists started attempting to rationally explain their "conversion".

Ogaga4Luv:
[size=13pt]Notic15 i wasn't afraid of you.so sorry i didn't respond you because i didn't get it. you can please do me a favour by sending me another mail?.[/size]

my e-mail addy is noeticnairaland@yahoo.com I will be expecting ur email.

naijababe:
Islam to Xtian was quite tough cos I suddenly  became a defender of that that I had been taught to abhor. I recall many sleepless nights and was almost going mad. I left Islam in my quest to be a better muslim, the more I learned, the less appealing the faith became. At first Xtianity appeared to be next obvious choice until jehovah proved to just as bigoted and monstrous as allah

this sounds more like bitterness.

u have not given ONE single logical/meaningful reason why u changed from islam to xtian then to atheism. sounds like u were looking for a fast miracle for a malady. (no pun intended)

KunleOshob:
It's is ok to criticize crooked politicians but when he critisizes crooked practises in the church and crooked pastors he as crossed the line. Please note that some pastor as better maketing skills which translates to a larger congregation does not mean greater or more annointing, for all you know none of them might even have an ounce of annointing. As per every body in Otta being happy with bishop Oledepo, i beg to disagree, we have some of his former students at Covenant University on this forum like Tudor who are mostly very up set with the way the bishop exploited them.

Spot on . . . , GBAM!!!!

how does one even measure anointing. . .its definitely not by church members?. . . .
. . . . I have heard unconfirmed stories about oyedepo's occultism many years ago. . , . . .bakare's points may not be far from the truth.

Krayola:
[size=13pt]"When your intellect conceives of God, do not permit urself to imagine that there is a God that exists as depicted by you. For if you do this you will have a finite and corporeal conception of God, God forbid. Instead, your mind should dwell on the affirmation of God's existence and then recoil. To do more than this is to allow the imagination to reflect on God as God is in Himself and such reflection is bound to result in imaginative limitations and corporeality. Put reins therefore on your intellect and do not allow it too great a freedom, but assert God's existence and deny your intellect the possibility of comprehending God" 16th century kabbalist Moses cordevero[/size]

This is both impossible and impractical.

The concept of the imagination has its limits and capacity. its infinite status is defined by its finite components/subject, . . . . .in this case God.
God in the imagination/intellect of man is bound to be definite and finite. It takes revelation and spiritual insight to gasp the aura of infinity or the divinity of the spiritual realm and God.

muhsin:
Did I say this?

do u not understand simple english? how about using a dictionary?

muhsin:
I can't wait to read that.

how many times have they been addressed already?


@ OP: another ridiculous thread.

@ bawomolo

dont be evasive. , . .I am looking out for ur response. and whats ur view on homosexuals?

@ manmustwac

it would be nice hearing ur views in an elaborate tilt. I would be popping in my bits. . .not to argue or compliment ur points. . . just to understand and see our divergent views.

@ Deep Sight.

Nice thread, but ur OP is overtly sarcastic and unnecessarily exaggerated.

Joagbaje:
The above is pure lies and fantasies. . . , otherwise what is the basis of your assertions?. . the source of your misinformation?

If youre not yet covinced after reading my post there would be no reason trying to convince you.it only means one thing. You dont have the facility yet to understand truth and i will put you in prayers. The bible answered it all in Titus 3:9
But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

u ridiculously made baseless assertions and attempted to rope the bible into ur self conceived ignorance. . , . all to no avail.

Its not that I dont understand ur jejune and misplaced points, . . .its just that they hold no water.
what should I or anyone be convinced of, from what u have said? did u personally know oshoffa? were u there when he founded the church?
u come off here to present hear-says as fact and in ur foolishness think that readers are as stupid as u imagine, . . . , . .all u have presented above holds no water. . . please try again later.

huxley:
Absolutely NEVER EVER NEVER reverting to any form of superstitions. I have been away from NL for many reasons. Suffice to say, I have been thinking about new perspectives of dealing with superstitions, religions, irrationalisms. I have been doing plenty of research in a bid to find a new "voice" or new way of addressing the issues that could be more relevant to modern religionists and people interested in investigating myths/religions/superstitions. Further, I have been thinking about ways of making scientific rationalism and philosophy more accessible or amenible only Africans. To this end, I have been spending plenty of my spare time researching areas such as:

The metaphysics of Culture
Spread of Religion as a meme
Neuroscience - how the brain is materially affected by cultural behaviours such as learning, deprivation, ascetism, etc, etc
Moral philosophy
African religions

Over the last few months, I have been accummulating a respectable bibliography of books and materials on these subjects. SO most of my spare time has been taken invested in trying to give this research some shape and structure. So I shall be dipping in and out of NL and time permits.


One interesting observation - When the atheists are not on NL, the religious mice come out to play, with their hands on each others throads. Not only are there these inter-theistic fights, the overall standard of discussion takes a nose-dive. Looks like this speaks well of the demeanour of the atheists.

blah blah blah

the same thing happens when opinionated xtians ignore the forum.

olabowale:
@Na2day?: « #71 on: Yesterday at 09:53:17 PM »  our back and forth reminded me of what Imam Ahmad said about if he were to argue with 2 different classes of people;

1.  arguing with an intelligent person, he the imam will win him over, because the man will reason with intelligence.

2.  arguing with an unintelligent person, he the man boldly declared that he will be defeated by tjis man, because the man will never reason lacking
     intelligence, he dugs his heels in deeper and becomes emotional, never changes his position regardless of the obvious weakness. na2day?, you
     have won. However, my responses are to the larger audience; if christ was lord of lords, king of kings, can you show us the remnant of his rule
     and kingdom, where and which kings he was a king of, and how can he deny this very position of royalty of his own people, when he was merely
     accused, capitulating before the roman ruler? As this man called christ was hung, the Bible said he cried out in his semitic language; Eloi or Elohim
     meaning My God, My Lord or My Creator. Look at Eloi and Allah. Pronounce both of them and hear the very close similarity instead of the Yahweh
     or Jehovah, both a name that Jesus never dignified his Lord with, except the Singular "Eloi/Elohim!"

Olowo of Owo, Ojomo of Owo, Olubadan of Ibadan, Oni of Ife, Awujale of Ijebu Ode, or Oba of Lagos, or any royalty in africa or the Queen of England have domain
of their royalty, a place where they rule from, which is their palaces, with thrones. Show me something of these that Jesus had, and not just empty rhetorics!

so according to this self defeating analogy from ur imam . . . . .u are certified intelligent and have subsequently won the debate.
allahu akbau

viaro:
Hi all,

For some mysterious reason, issues like this seem to draw out comments from me, as evidenced by one of my first posts on Nairaland. There's hope, people. .  there's hope. I see something playing out here. Some have called it the 'law of diminishing returns'. . others say it's 'seasonal'. But what am I all about?

Well, it should not surprise us that this situation was inevitable. Even where people talk about ordinary things away from religion, there's a point where boredom creeps in and nothing interesting comes up. I see that as a 'necessary' antecedent to a renaissance. . one that brings new things to the table for discussions (with the old inbetweens as side attractions). The question now is: how many here are willing to betake themselves to thinking deep and drawing out from the riches of their treasures to share with others? Rather than remain on the same page of noting the problem, could I join others in making suggestions that would move us beyond the present pale?

Here are a few I've been thinking about recently:

        * Death is NOT Final!

        * Can Anything Come Out of Nothing?
           Has Science Found Answers Yet?

        * Are We Alone In The Universe?

        * But What About Those Questions That Science Cannot Answer?

        * How Do We Answer To Strange Phenomena?

Good people, my apologies that I have not really had the time to start off these topics. .  they've all been in the pipeline, but just when I was thinking of having myself the fortune of some free time in December and January, something came up that will limit my aperance on Nairaland! (somehow, things often come up, don't they?)

What do you think? Can we revive this board and see some fresh insights? I know we have all noted the problem. . but I'm instigating a move beyond that now. We should not sit back with toothpicks like well-fed party invitees who smile as if there's nothing more to chew on. Oh c'mon. .  the party's only just begun!

God willing, in the next few days, I'll try to make those suggestions above into threads and all are invited to share their perspectives. Even if you're merely an observer, please come in and warm the place (but no verbal infernos, please).

This topics will make a great discourse. . but topics alone dont make a good discourse. . . .and as such it would be more fun if the renowned "great minds" do not ignore these threads when constituted.
. . . . . I eagerly await these threads.