₦airaland Forum

toneyb:
Pilgirim1 is an interesting person and I have learnt a lot from here unlike you who makes an assertion and runs away when people tell you to come and defend what you have said.

Deep in your heart u know this is false.

[quote author=pilgrim.1 link=topic=284043.msg4071955#msg4071955 date=1245708190]If you only learn to tell yourself the truth, it won't hurt you. Have I ever argued any 'pink flower' with you? The hollow carping of your atheistic logic is more than the comedy that comes before it. But well done all the same.[/quote]welcome to Toneyb's world

javalove:
Salam Alykun

I opened up this thread so that we can discuss how affects what we do to earn a living.

I have a little problem

My company (Jajitech) has just been called for a contract by a company. This company deals in TV game shows(sports) where users from all over Nigeria can participate by sending text messages and at the end of the day, a winner is announced.

My task here is just to create a software that queries all the people that have participated and randomly pick a winner.

Please, I am sooooooooooo confused now as alot of money is involved and is it Islamic.

I have read somewhere that I can write the software for them that its Halal but i need more explainations and clearifications.

E sa nu mi . . e jooooo

Whaoo. I cant believe any literate could write this. with due respect. . . . . are u educated at all?

why not just resign if u think it is halal? wonders shall never end.

from this interview, he does not come across as a dumb guy. time will tell though.

bolicks:
Many people who call themselves muslims are notin but wicked sets of people. true muslims are peaceful and loving, if you do not possess any of the qualities, sign off and prepare for Hell. THE WICKEDNESS IN UR HEARTS WILL MET WITH THE JUSTICE OF Allah.

There is nothing like a true muslim being peaceful and loving, he/she is an ignorant muslim awaiting the wrath of allah.

allah has commanded muslims to kill, destroy, annihilate, exterminate and humiliate non-muslims (jihad). allah also asked them to behead, amputate and flog fellow muslims . . . . . .this is the true nature of allah . . , . .allah has finally ordained them all (muslims) to hell fire.

If u are looking for peaceful people, (by dictionary definition and not by propaganda) u dont want to mention the muslims.

Chrisbenogor:
I made the mistake of thinking you were an open minded person.

have u been following wirinet's posts?

He abandons debates, whenever his ignorance has been revealed, he then comes here to attack others. It just does not work that way.

I believe I am open minded, just have not seen anyone (atheist or evolutionist) who can prove his/her case.

wirinet:
What surprises me is Davidylans apparent ignorance of the basic theory of Evolution, I can understand Olaadegun and Noetic because of their lack of science education, but how do you place Davidylan's ignorance since he claims to be a Biologist. Is the Basic Theory of Evolution not included in your course study or you did not bother to study it.

How can a Biologist as questions like "How come the bacteria had not become multicellular in all the billions of years of Evolution?" So you were not taught the driving force of evolution?. Evolution never said that all specie of all organisms must evolve at the same rate and the same time. Factors such as Environment, Food and adaptation plays crucial role in Evolution according to the theory. You should know that some organisms even some mammals had changed little in millions of years. A good example is the Blue Whale, it had remained virtually unchanged in 65 million years. It is the only mammal known to have lived with the dinosaurs. Even if you do not believe in the theory due to religious convictions you should at least grasp what it is about, so as not to disgrace yourself among your peers.

I think your Religious fervor is conflicting with your scientific training, I think you should change profession.

ur knowledge of science is definitely legendary.

That explains why u ignorantly claimed that atheism is science. That also explains why u ignorantly could not answer ANY of my questions or olaadegbu's.

You are a "great" scientist indeed.

olabowale:
And as for those who believe and do good works, He will pay them their wages in full (Surah 3:57,).

does not relate to forgiveness. does not count.

Then, as for those who believed and did good works, unto them will He pay their wages in full, adding unto them of His bounty; and as for those who were scornful and proud, them will He punish with a painful doom (Surah 4:173,).

how does this relate to forgiveness?

And those who believed and did good works are made to enter the Gardens underneath which rivers flow, therein abiding by permission of their Lord, their greeting therein: Peace! (Surah 14:23, ).

How does this relate to a forgiving allah?

olabowale:
“Hold to forgiveness, command what is right, and turn away from the ignorant.” (Qur’an, 7: 199)

allah was talking to mohammed here. . . . ,  was mohammed a forgiving person?
any way this thread is about allah and not mohammed. . . . .so this verse does not count.

“But if someone is steadfast and forgives, that is the most resolute course to follow.” (Qur’an, 42:43)

This has no connection to allah, so does not count.

“control their rage and pardon other people.” (Qur’an, 3:134)

no connection to allah. Does not count.

“Indeed! God does not forgive the sin of ascribing partners to Him, but He forgives anything else to whom He pleases, and whoever takes partners with God has gone astray into far error”.Qur’an (4:116)

He does not forgive apostates . . . . .he asks that they be killed.
He does not forgive those who steal, kill or fornicate . . . . He asked that they be beheaded, lashed with strokes or amputated.
He does not forgive a restless wife . . . . .He asks that the husband beats her.
He does not forgive the jews or christians . . . .he asks that they be killed.

There are so many people allah does not forgive.

“Those who avoid major sins and acts of indecencies and when they are angry they forgive.” Qur’an ( 42:37)

This has no connection to allah. Does not count.

“The reward of the evil is the evil thereof, but whosoever forgives and makes amends, his reward is upon Allah.”Qur’an ( 42:40)

This has no connection to allah. . . .it does not say allah himself forgives. . . .does not count.

“If you punish, then punish with the like of that wherewith you were afflicted. But if you endure patiently, indeed it is better for the patient. Endure you patiently. Your patience is not except through the help of Allah.”Qur’an (16:126-127)

how does this relate to a forgiving allah?

“Let not those among you who are endued with grace and amplitude of means resolve by oath against helping their kinsmen, those in want and those who migrated in the path of Allah. Let them forgive and overlook. Do you not wish that Allah should forgive you? Indeed Allah is oft-Forgiving, most Merciful.”Qur’an (24:22)

This is the second time u are repeating this. dishonesty is not allowed.

This is an allowance from your Lord and His mercy [upon you. You must not take undue advantage from it. Remember that] whoever transgresses [in the implementation of this law] even after this [allowance], he shall then face an extremely painful punishment. And [the law of] Qisas is source of life for you, O people bestowed with understanding, so that you live your lives within the prescribed limits.” (Surah Baqarah 178 – 179)

we are talking about forgiveness. this does not relate to a forgiving allah. does not count.

why did it take u a week to finally respond? u went to consult ur islamic scholars right?

You have however redefined this debate. since u have been bold enough to produce some verses where allah "falsely" claimed to be a forgiving deity, I will also step up the game by producing verses that reflects deeds which contradict this dishonest claims of forgiveness,  . . . .Enjoy.


Allah DOES NOT forgive


A. No matter what your sin is, no matter how long/much u ask allah for forgiveness. No matter how devoted/faithfull u are to serving allah. Allah has said he will NEVER forgive ur sins. he has decreed u to hell fire.

verse 1
There will be no one of you who will not enter it (Hell).
This was an inevitable decree of your Lord.
-- Sura 19:71-72


B. If u are not a muslim. Allah does not want u to come to repentance. Allah is not ready to FORGIVE ur ignorance. Allah has commanded his faithfulls to kill you and he has promised them alone a place in his imaginary paradise.



verse 2: allah asks his faithfulls to fight and tax willingly and forcefully non-muslims because he cannot FORGIVE them.
You shall[b] fight[/b] back against those who do not believe in GOD, nor in the Last Day, nor do they prohibit what GOD and His messenger have prohibited, nor do they abide by the religion of truth - among those who received the scripture - until they pay the due tax, willingly or unwillingly. [/b]surah 9:29


verse 3: allah guides people astray and refuses to help or forgive them.

Nay, the wrong-doers (merely) follow their own lusts, being devoid of knowledge. But who will guide those [b]whom Allah leaves astray? To them there will be no helpers. surah 30:29


verse 4: allah wants to kill and amputate everyone cos he cant FORGIVE them.
surah 5:33 "The only reward for those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that[b] they will be killed or crucified,[/b] or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom, "


verse 5: why cant allah forgive idolators and bring them to repentance?
quran 9:5
Slay the idolaters wherever you find them.


verse 6: even though allah has condemned his own faithful and devout ones to hell, he still wouldnt forgive the unfaithfuls.
SURA 2:39: But they who disbelieve, and deny Our revelations, such are rightful Peoples of the Fire. They will abide therein.

verse 7: why is allah so unforgiving

SURA 2:191: And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the[b] reward[/b] of disbelievers.

verse 8: why is allah is an unforgiving deity? he spares no one. why must allah encourage his followers to return evil for evil?
SURA 2:194: And one who attacketh you, attack him in like manner as he attacked you. Observe your duty to Allah, and know that Allah is with those who ward off (evil).

verse 9: is allah an unforgiving deity?
SURA 4:89: They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them


verse 10: is allah is both unforgiving and unpeaceful?

SURA 4:91: If they keep not aloof from you nor offer you peace nor hold their hands, then take them and kill them wherever ye find them. Against such We have given you clear warrant.


verse 11: allah is so unforgiving that he has his own set of punishments compared to the ones he gave his followers.
Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn ‘Abbas, who said, “Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, ‘Don’t punish (anybody) with Allah’s Punishment.’ [i.e., only God can burn someone with fire in hell.] No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet [Mohammed] said, ‘If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill  him.’” Volume 4, Book 52, Number 260


verse 12: why does allah unforgivably kills with rage?
Qur'an (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them"



verse 13: why did allah tell mohammed to do this?
Bukhari (52:260) - ", The Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "

verse 14: These are the group of people allah CANNOT forgive, so he asked mohammed to kill them all.
Bukhari (83:37) - "Allah's Apostle never killed anyone except in one of the following three situations: (1) A person who killed somebody unjustly, was killed (in Qisas,) (2) a married person who committed illegal sexual intercourse and (3) a man who fought against Allah and His Apostle and deserted Islam and became an apostate."


verse 15: why is it that when ever allah cannot forgive, he resorts to killing?
Bukhari (84:57) - "[In the words of] Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"

verse 16: do u actually think that allah is capable of forgiveness?
Bukhari (89:271) - A man who embraces Islam, then reverts to Judaism is to be killed according to "the verdict of Allah and his apostle."

verse 17: allah has repeatedly sowed the seeds of unforgivable nature from himself to mohammed and to other generations of muslims. This nature has resulted in killing in the name of discarding allah.
Bukhari (84:58) - "There was a fettered man beside Abu Muisa. Mu'adh asked, 'Who is this (man)?'  Abu Muisa said, 'He was a Jew and became a Muslim and then reverted back to Judaism.'  Then Abu Muisa requested Mu'adh to sit down but Mu'adh said, 'I will not sit down till he has been killed. This is the judgment of Allah and His Apostle (for such cases) and repeated it thrice.'  Then Abu Musa ordered that the man be killed, and he was killed. Abu Musa added, 'Then we discussed the night prayers'"


verse 18: allah also asked that unbelief should never be forgiven. why allah? why?
Bukhari (84:64-65) - "Allah's Apostle: 'During the last days there will appear some young foolish people who will say the best words but their faith will not go beyond their throats (i.e. they will have no faith) and will go out from (leave) their religion as an arrow goes out of the game. So, wherever you find them, kill them, for whoever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection.'"


verse 19: another evidence of allah's unforgiving attitude.
Bukhari (84:58) - "There was a fettered man beside Abu Muisa. Mu'adh asked, 'Who is this (man)?'  Abu Muisa said, 'He was a Jew and became a Muslim and then reverted back to Judaism.'  Then Abu Muisa requested Mu'adh to sit down but Mu'adh said, 'I will not sit down till he has been killed. This is the judgment of Allah and His Apostle (for such cases) and repeated it thrice.'  Then Abu Musa ordered that the man be killed, and he was killed. Abu Musa added, 'Then we discussed the night prayers'"


verse 20: olabowale, do u actually think allah is capable of forgiving?
Bukhari (84:57) - "[In the words of] Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"
MORE VERSES TO COME.

if allah forgives, why does he ask u to behead and amputate offenders? whats the essence of sharia law, if allah is a forgiving deity?

do u have an example of ANYONE allah forgave in the koran?

Chrisbenogor:
This is not still about evolution, just tell us why you want a muslim to drop his religion, you have a quote asking why people are muslims, how is christianity better than Islam?

I have that quote because of the dishonesty of the most vocal NL muslim. . .olabowale. There are two threads that already deal with his issue.
"why I am not a muslim" and "is allah a forgiving deity?" both threads can be found in the islamic section.


This thread is all about u and ur evolution. So tell me why evolution is true (by answering my numerous questions on evolution) so that I can dump christianity.

Backslider:
if you read what i said when i posted

It seems as if you did not read this post

Well the above represent a phenominal Contradiction and Olabowale was not in denial of this.

The hadith must never contradict the Quran but the above does.

Can you tell me why?

If not it is either Bukari was a very big Liar or the quran is a Fraud.

I will have more but if you give me an answer on this i will be very happy.

Your observation might not be far from reality.

Chrisbenogor:
@noetic
Can you tell me why your religion is right and why others are wrong?

You can start by telling me why evolution is right and also answer my questions, so that I can dump my religion.

dalaman:
What EVIDENCE have you provided? How can you use non scientific word as your scientific evidence for an event? Polstrate fossil is not even a geological(scientific) term.

You, mazaje, toneyb et all NEVER knew thought that polystrate fossils was not an acceptable term until u SHAMELESSLY looked it up in wikipedia.
If u did, u would not have asked me to prove my statement, u would have told me as soon as I listed them to huxley that polystrate fossils are not acceptable.

You cant come here and start blowing hot air.

dalaman:
You are just a know nothing and block headed troll. You copied someone else's arguments that have already been discredited by scientist and geologist. Stop saying that they are your claims because they are not. You copied the it almost word for word from the link provided on talkorigin.

I did not google up any resources, I only copied and pasted the scientific evidence that disproves the Noah's flood from talkorigin they posed it to the guy whose work you copied and asked him and other proponents of the Noah's flood to refute the scientifically, which they couldn't.


This is what you said.

Why are you now back tracking? Did you visit all the creationist websites and found nothing to copy and paste?

This is free comedy.

u have just admitted what we all knew. u SHAMELESSLY copied and pasted. I did NOT, yet u keep claiming I did. You are being dishonest.
Can you: point out what in my post I copied and pasted? you cant. . . . . .you are so dishonest.
I have repeatedly told u that there are free anti-plagiarism software's online u can use to trace any content to where it was copied from. . . why not use that to trace my points.

If I refute ur copy-pasted claims and answer ur questions, where would u get ur next refutal from? google? wikipedia? talk-origins? where?


For the sake of fairness and since u believe u are an expert in evolution (and would not have to SHAMELESSLY) copy-paste, why dont u debate evolution. . . . .why are u afraid of evolution?

bindex:
Is this not the same fool neotic that said this?

Are you completely stupid? what kind of a block headed and know nothing airhead are you?

You have the option of not responding to my posts. I dont remember ever responding to urs.

olabowale:
I hope you are educated. And even though I promised not to respnd to you, I need to remind you that you said for every verse of goodness, forgivingness, mercifulness, etc from the Quran, you will bring out 5 verses of injustices/unjust punishment.

I hope that you know that an Entity Who called Himself Merciful, Gracious, Beneficient, said it all. There is no mention against His name that He is Unjust, and practices Injustice.

In all, you have not brought a single verse to show any injustice or unjust punishment by Allah. And Abuzola had provided a verse stating that Allah wrote for Himself in a Book, that His Mercy is ever overcoming His Anger. Finally I do not want to talk to you about anything since your dishonesty is overwhelming: a single verse you have not produced, regardless of $Osisi's irregularity of producing Biblical verses from not "the Gospels", as if the agreement was to say "Bible have more so called mercy than the Qur'an." If I were to stoop low as to counter her, I will bring statements not only from Qur'an, qualifying the Mercifulness of Allah.



So when you talk to me, think. Finally, you don't need me. The Muslims can do great job about Qur'an against your false claim, which you have not been able to substantiate. And my coming to Christianity; On one hand you have not proven a single thing against Allah. On the other hand, I follow the religion of Isa bin Mariam, Musa bin Imran,  Ibrahimhanifan.

It is you I should ask why haven't you recounted on te 3 gods?! Again, good bye, because you only waste my time. And I could be fishing.

I am educated, that explains my consistencies.

I am not interested in abuzuola's comments or whatever his name is. Neither am I interested in the mercy, grace, beneficience and compassion of allah. The issue is FORGIVENESS

You produce one verse that shows allah forgives, I will produce 5 that show he does not.
why is this so hard? why are u so dishonest?

But statements from Hadith, which is in the level as "Gospels" (prophet stamements), the statements of the Sahabas, like that of Acts of the "Didciples, excluding whatever Saul/Paul said: statements from companions/followers of prophets. I will bring statements from the Tabihin, which will be equal to what Paul is saying; followers of Companions and disciples.

This is ridiculous. Did allah write the haddith? I am not interested in the haddith since it is not the book of allah.

All the verses you are to produce must come from the KORAN.

Chrisbenogor:
Abeg make I go sleep, you and Abuzola are just clones. You believe there is a daddy up there that hears our thoughts and is peverted enough to want to know what we do when we are naked, he believes there are 72 virgins in paradise waiting for him.

did u make ANY point?

whenever u feel confident enough to defend evolution, please call my attention.

Chrisbenogor:
I really do not think you are in as deep as david is already, that is why I was pointing out to you that your belief in Noah's story is as absurd as Abuzola's belief that the moon came down. You towed david's line on the whole evolution thingy and you are towing his line here again, do you really think for yourself at all, oh by the way if you have ever taken any vaccine that would be evolutions principles being applied.
Cheers.

whats the meaning of all this crap? I have repeatedly discredited the evolution LIE based on several posers I have raised which NO evolutionist has been able to answer till date.

why EXACTLY do u have a problem defending evolution?

Chrisbenogor:
And you kid yourself that you don't just talk.
Evidence of a global flood is one way to try and prove that Noah's story might be true so far there is none and that is even going too far, how did noah build the ark? give us a simple model of how you will go about it.

why do u keep ranting about noah's flood, when NONE of u was competent enough to refute the evidences produced?

why do u also have a problem defending ur evolution beliefs?

dalaman:
Please make sure you honour your words and provide scientific refutations for them. I don't want to wait for you in vain.

do u have a problem understanding simple english?

have u EVER refuted my claim from ur own knowledge? u SHAMELESSLY use googled up resources to antagonise my statements. So y in God's name should I ever answer ur questions? its called intellectual laziness on ur part.

There are atheists like KAG, Tudor et all. . . . .who debate using concepts that reflect their understanding, if and when they raise these questions u came up with, then I am bound to answer. why would be interested in encouraging ur ridiculous habit of using stolen write ups to refute my assertions?

Chrisbenogor:
Refuting claims in a book I am reading that Jesus did not say so, is that reason enough?

No its not. one wonders why u spend so much time on a book u dont believe in.

u should be searching for the evolution missing links.

Chrisbenogor:
Like you had understanding of those you used in the first place.

now u sound vey foolish. can u prove I copied from anywhere? did I not answer all posers raised to me?

where is ur evidence for evolution?

Chrisbenogor:
See I actually read the way mazaje whipped your ass, as an engineer though what I am more concerned about is how the story is not plausible, like how the ark would not be able to survive if we are to take anything in that story at all. Is that all you have got or theres more to come from your creationist websites?Heeheeeheeee you know say me I no sabi all those you and mazaje them plenty plenty posts insulting each other, I don big pass that for nairaland, no be Noah start this story eh? na you bring evolution put inside the gist.

Now I get ur point. u are very dishonest. Mazaje did not make a point on his own, neither did he refute anything I said.

Now I can categorise u as one of those who just debate for talking sake.

davidylan:
lol how many times has this piece above been recycled now? the original writer shld be suing for copyright.

u took that from my mouth.

dalaman:
Polystrate fossils is not a geological(scientific term) so I don't even understand what you are saying, you said you have scientific evidence for the Noah's flood and then you use unscientific terms as your evidence?  . You did not even show that the copy paste from talk origin were wrong. By the way you also shamlessly copied and pasted from the link provided on talk origin because you used the writers words all most word for word. The arguments were not even yours.

I went through the link from the talk origin site, they refuted the "scientific evidence" you provided go ahead and disprove their own scientific evidence here are just a few of the scientific evidence that disprove the Noah's flood from talk origin.

How do you explain the relative ages of mountains? [/b]For example, why weren't the Sierra Nevadas eroded as much as the Appalachians during the Flood?

[b]Why is there no evidence of a flood in ice core series? Ice cores from Greenland have been dated back more than 40,000 years by counting annual layers. A worldwide flood would be expected to leave a layer of sediments, noticeable changes in salinity and oxygen isotope ratios, fractures from buoyancy and thermal stresses, a hiatus in trapped air bubbles, and probably other evidence. Why doesn't such evidence show up?

How are the polar ice caps even possible? Such a mass of water as the Flood would have provided sufficient buoyancy to float the polar caps off their beds and break them up. They wouldn't regrow quickly. In fact, the Greenland ice cap would not regrow under modern (last 10 ky) climatic conditions.

Why did the Flood not leave traces on the sea floors? A year long flood should be recognizable in sea bottom cores by (1) an uncharacteristic amount of terrestrial detritus, (2) different grain size distributions in the sediment, (3) a shift in oxygen isotope ratios (rain has a different isotopic composition from seawater), (4) a massive extinction, and (n) other characters. Why do none of these show up?

Why is there no evidence of a flood in tree ring dating? Tree ring records go back more than 10,000 years, with no evidence of a catastrophe during that time.

How does a global flood explain angular unconformities? These are where one set of layers of sediments have been extensively modified (e.g., tilted) and eroded before a second set of layers were deposited on top. They thus seem to require at least two periods of deposition (more, where there is more than one unconformity) with long periods of time in between to account for the deformation, erosion, and weathering observed.

How do you explain the formation of varves? The Green River formation in Wyoming contains 20,000,000 annual layers, or varves, identical to those being laid down today in certain lakes. The sediments are so fine that each layer would have required over a month to
settle.

This is ridiculous considering  that u googled it up, without having any understanding of the terms used.

I have no problem answering ur questions, but where would u get the refutations from? google? wikipedia? talk-origins?
u have repeatedly displayed sufficient ignorance on this subject, I d rather we debate a subject u are more comfortable with.

dalaman:
Evolution is just a believe that scientist are struggling so hard to find evidence for. Noah's flood is also a belief that has no scientific evidence so they both have no difference because they are both assertions that rely mostly on belief with little or no scientific evidence to support them.

As for evolution u are right.

But for Noah's flood remember that neither u, mazaje (the geologist ) nor toneyb could refute these scientific evidences that support the existence of noah's flood . . . . . .except for the SHAMELESS copy-paste from talk origin.

what exactly do u believe, since u are not a fan of evolution?

Chrisbenogor:
I was not even after a debate your psychic mind should have told you that.

what EXACTLY were u after?

Chrisbenogor:
Sadly that is  not the point of our discussion, how is the story of Noah a fact, where is the evidence that supports it?Yeah I know since the evolution

You cannot sweep ur evolution under the carpet. I think it is pertinent u begin to produce ur evidences now.

As for Noah's ark, u can start from here: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-279215.0.html

You need to define who is corrupt? and what constitutes corruption?

I am honestly indifferent to both the federal side and the militants. cos I cant believe the militants have so much influence without some federal conspiracy. I also refuse to believe that the militants are pro people like they claim.