₦airaland Forum

osisi please keep it coming. , . . .I m loving this.



where are the mohammedans?

olabowale:
First, make the effort. I am already prepared to humiliate you. Then I want to see how the whole Yoruba christians fit Olodumare to God the Father!

Yet Eledumare, before Christianity crawled with its heavy hand to the land of my blood, is a word to mean their "God; Ceator." I wonder why your mind can't wrap around the idea that the Arabs, too, like every people except the atheist, and his kind, knew and accept that a Creator, Eledumare in Yoruba's pre Christians, Pre Muslims, existe?

What name did your pagan forefathers called their Creator, before Christianity entered the hearts of their descendants; you and those who are chritians in your bloodline?

Was Eledumare one of them? Now that you are christians, is Eledumare not acceptable to mean Creator in Yoruba language, any longer? In the long run, I beliee you will come to your senses.

I am allergic to incessant RUBBISH.

When I defeat u in this contest, will u give up worshipping the arabian idol called allah? YES or NO.

aisha2010:
i have a problem at hand i been dating dis guy for d past 2yrs now d problem is he's a christan and i am from a muslim home. he's nt ready to chage his religion we both loved each other very well. right now i dt have any muslim guy. pls nl, i need ur advice because i dt want to lose him and i dt no where to get a god fearing muslim guy.

have u ever thought about becoming a christian urself? do u delusively expect a christian to change his faith and relationship with GOD because of a woman? This is ridiculous. . . . .u need serious help.

wirinet:
I agree with you that a few Black Americans like Martin Luther Junior, Malcom X and a few other were able to challenge the oppression of the American Society. I do not deem their struggles as exactly being non-conformist, I would rather term it being conformist and brave enough to fight and die for that conformity. Let me explain further.
The concept that discrimination of Blacks by the American society was the main beliefs by almost all blacks in America since the slave period, and they had been various struggles among blacks against discrimination.  So the fact that Martin Luther King decided to fight discrimination was not a novel idea, the novelty he introduced was to Change tactics, from using individual and often violent methods to using an organized group (civil rights movement) and non violent methods (intellectually). It would have been thinking out of the box if Martin Luther King was white since it was unthinkable then for a white man to disbelieve discrimination.  Same goes for Mandela.


Nobody had said that an atheist is necessarily intelligent, i am sure there are lots of atheist with low IQ, but what you can not take away from the atheist is his ability to think beyond what over 95% of the world population think. When an atheist breaks the fear barrier and ask the radical question " who created God" and "what is God" and "where did God come from" Then to look for answers outside where you are told to look. Then come to your own independent conclusions.

Atheists to not have a guru or a master, they look for answers to their questions where they can.

My own examples of non conformists are Fela, Tai Solarin, Gani.

u wrongly assume that a christian has not asked himself and answered ur pertinent questions of "who created GOD?" and "what is GOD?". Christians have repeatedly answered this questions, to themselves and to atheists. u like other atheists have found these answers untenable but have refused to offer better alternatives. ur inability to proffer an answer and ur search for it does NOT make u an independent thinker.

To think that there is NO GOD and also not to have ANY evidence to back of this claim, is simply an attempt to exonerate one self from spiritual and moral , . . . atheism has NO link to independent thinking. There is no independence of thought in randomly assuming that there is no GOD.

Gani Fawehimi is a muslim and Fela is not an atheist. If according to u, these people are independent minded and non-conformists, then that proves that atheism has no link to being non-conformist. Atheism is a belief state like christianity, islam and hinduism.

[quote author=pilgrim.1 link=topic=284043.msg4029663#msg4029663 date=1245058019]That's alright. I was just wondering (rather bemused) about the one-liner.

     It would not be the responsibility of other people to 'prove' my own claim;
     because the claim is mine. It sounded to me like an atheist would ask me
     to 'prove' his own atheism - which is an almost impossible position to take.

     If I make a claim, it's my responsibility to 'prove' what is mine; just as it is
     the responsibility for another person to 'prove' his or her own statement.

    Perhaps the one thing that could be more helpful is to state what is your
    ontology and then invite a dialogue.  At the end of the day,  anyone
    (theist or atheist) may hear you out and draw their own conclusions, not
    necessarily 'prove' it for you or anyone else.

    Just my observation; no offences meant. [/quote]I think the OP is simply drawing a sketch that leads to asking the question: what is the ontology of Jehovah GOD? since the atheist believes there is no GOD.

Not a bad idea, since it is to help the atheist demonstrate a little understanding of the subject (GOD) of his beliefs/disbelief (atheism).

I was not mocking u, I was only laughing.

You seem to assume that the atheists on this forum are intelligent or knowledgeable. To the contrary, they . . . . . ,  . .


They CANNOT answer ur question and will only insult u or attempt to change the topic. Atheism is disguised foolishness aimed at hiding one's ignorance of pertinent issues pertaining to life. Atheists, as evidenced on this forum, continue to hide under the spectrum of independent mind and science, none of which is alien to religion.

I have been on this road before, and I can confidently tell u, that the most vocal atheists on this forum are not worth engaging in an intellectually driven debate. They enjoy noise making.

wirinet:
@ Poster

Yes i love the way you summed it up. It is extremely difficult for blacks to be an atheist. This is due mainly to our traditional root and history. As you have said, our educational system - both traditional and modern does not encourage independent thinking.

In our traditional societies, the pronouncements of elders are not to be questioned, especially by the younger ones, so naturally we were not taught to think outside what we were allowed to think. We still believe today that the words of our elders are words of wisdom, and is the most effective tool used in religion. That is why their authoritative figures carry such appellation as elder and father.

Also our current educational curriculum does not encourage independent thinking. God help you if you question your lecturer or teacher about a subject he is deemed an expert. We are taught to "return to sender". Give the lecturer everything he taught word for word and you are sure of an excellent grade.

The same thing affecting religion also affects other aspects of our lives, especially the political arena. |A president or governor cannot condone dissenting views, so all meetings at taking critical decisions are just endorsements of the presidents/governors wishes, if you dare to raise questions, you will suffer the Atiku/Pedro treatment.

Same also goes on in our offices, you never challenge the decisions of you boss, if you do not want to join the unemployment statistic.

I think anyone able to develop an independent mind up to becoming an atheist in our society will have a really difficult time in school, office and gatherings, because he will not conform.

What does an independent mind/thinking have to do with atheism or religion?

Martin Luther king, a christian opposed conventional christianity and made waves of reforms that popularised pentecostal ism. The likes of Nelson mandela, Mother theresa, Raila Odinga, MKO Abiola, Ken Saro Wiwa et all have over time stood up for what they perceive as injustice in their own societies. These are black people who lived in predominantly black communities. They stood up for what they believed in and fought for it. Their position/independent mindedness had nothing to do with religion or atheism but individual convictions.

All over the world, people of all societies have lived in boxes that limit independent thinking, including slavery and anti-women discrimination, none of which is immune from atheism. People have stood up based on human needs and challenged the status quo.

To falsely identify atheism with independent thinking is disguised foolishness. cos independent thinking has to be rational, coherent and logical. whats the rationality of a belief that cannot be defined and substantiated?

While religions have dogmas that have no place in the intellectual circuit, atheism CANNOT however be likened to independent thinking because of its prevalent and inexplicable dogmas and irrationality.

Independent thinking is good and should be encouraged, but atheists should NEVER be mistaken for independent thinkers. They are as irrational and dogmatic as the religion subscribers they antagonise. Atheism has NO connection to independent thinking or intelligence.

olabowale:
@Noetic « #47 on: Yesterday at 11:48:26 PM » After this, I will not respond to you, because you don't have manners and capacity to think.
Its your mouth. Say what you want, rightly or wrongly.


I wonder what is the main essence of the Christian Bible, except to say that Jesus is part of the trinity and a savior? Yet it is voluminous! At worst, I had copied the style of the Bible; long and meaningless rhethorics! I am in good company, I will say.


Ridiculous like the Bible where 1 plus 1 plus 1 is equal to 1.


Shameful exampe! Are you married to a girl? Why the heck you are think about her, after Jesus "don lay down the Kricking law" against it? You see, you have committed fornication by your thought! No salvation for you. Your heart is filthy!


The psychoanalyst is at work, in2009 dealing with a 6th Century issue! Smart man on campus. The liar is the denier of truth; you, noetic!


And jehoovah or Yahweh or Jesus the god did not do better, either. I think he did worse. Take a look at the OT; Where should I begin? I am sure you will be trying to shamelessly put a spin on it.


Ignorance is your first, Middle and last names, if you consider that it is written in the Quran that more people will be non Muslim, that there are muslims at any given time! Other people who can deal with your ignorance, somebody who has your time (not me) will rspond to you more elaborately.



Woody Allen married a younger woman. Mia Farros' adopted daughter named Soon Yii. Adoption is what you say with your mouth in your desire. There is no blood relationship. None whatsoever. Are you familiar with adoption? Obviously not, since you don't know that there is no blood relationship!

But I want people to read your nitial question in the previous post that waranted by response, that you just gave this wishy washy half stepping sleep walking of an observation as a response. Allah cancelled adoption by Muhammad's marriage to Zainab. That was the process Allah chose.


Moses and Muhammad died naturally. They were not hanged. They both married and had children. Their people accepted them as their leaders, etc! And is an idol in heaven, since Muhammad (AS) went to heaven and came back? If it was an idol that is in heaven, then know that Jesus as he is in heaven is with idol, too. Your words, man. I am just repeating your dilutional statement to darn you. Just maybe your conscience or consciousness may be awaken! You are a strange man. And Yoruba produced all kind. You are a "one of a kind."


And Eloi is what now, if Jesus is God, according to your statement above? Are there more than One God? If Jesusi God, then he must have called on an idol while on the cross! You never cease to amaze me.


Have you had sex, man? You must be married to do it. Otherwise you are a great sinner by fornicating! Which slave he slept with? I remember discussing this issue with $Osisi. I said that the whole of Makka tribes offered their best women. He turned them down. He was a virgin until he married twice married older woman. He did not accept proposals from women, who offered themselves to him, in Madina. What a shameless sexual person can do that?

You need help, man. May Allah give you conscience, first, so that you can stop lying this badly. Many people don't think with their head and mind! They get all worked up with raging emotion.



True to form. You did not disappoint me. I told the NL people to watch for your chickening response, and you did exactly that on a Q!


If I do, whats your wager? I will let you choose.



Reluctantly, just to darn you, I am game.


{quote]
For every koranic verse u produce that preaches forgiveness, I will produce 5 that does not. deal?
Am sure I didn't since you worship 3 gods and say to me that its One God. Nothing in your mind is actually a reality. How could I have answered any of your questions? I worship 1 God. You worship 3. Its the number game. 3 must be more and probably srong than 1, wont you say?


I was already determined not to respond to you, until you throw this challenge of Mercy and its opposite. I will be waiting to see what you do. I will start with Surah Fatihah, and I want you to show me how many non-forgiving verses. We will move on to Surah Baqarah, and methodically provide a tabulated list of verses in each chapter. When you are the loser in this challenge, I hope you will do the best thing for people like you?

As usual u keep running in circles.

So when eventually I defeat ur misconceptions about koranic "forgiveness", will u give up ur worship of the idolatry arabian allah?

olabowale:
@Noetic: Do you play in the circus? Are you are escape artist, because you have mastered the sillly process of thinking that you are the only one who is right!

Now the difference between you and Abuzola is that one of you is asking probing qustions, sincerely! You are not that person! You can't read diddly about Arabic Quran and you dont know Jack about the Original Aramaic revelations, since none exist any longer.

What you now based your "fate" in in your faith is the never revealed "Bible" and its formulation using greek (heindoism), passing as reality. This is completely false.Now what do you have to say? Please defend your Bibeli, ogbeni okunrin!

This is ridiculous.

What does ur rubbish post above have to do with the illiterate and brainwashed-like questions abuzuola asked?

No educated person will objectively analyse the life of mohammed and the sacred teachings of allah, and remain a muslim.

olabowale:
@Noetic2: « #11 on: June 11, 2009, 11:58 PM » 
Good and the best of human qualities. If he was angry, he was not obnoxious. When correcting you he was not harsh. A very good story in Madina to illustrate my point;
A man walked into the mosque in Madina, while the Muslims were still in the company of the Prophet, after Salah. They were to the side of the mosque, when this ignorant man came and took out his manhood and urinated in the front part of the mosque. While he was still doing it, the companions who were there wanted to stop him and probably get vexed with him for doing it and particularly in the presence of the Noble prophet.

He, the prophet (AS) stopped them and tell them that they should let him finished. He informed a companion to get some water and throw it on the whole wetted place. This will dilute the urine and make the place acceptable again for salah. After the man had finished, he called the man to simply informed him that Masjid is used for 3 things; Salah, Reading Quran and Remembrance of Allah (Dhkir). This is the highest level of humaneness. He did not shame the man privately or publicly, but just civilly pointed to the man, without saying what he did was wrong, by not including urinating inside the masjid as one of the things it is used for.

I can safely state that u are an ignorant and uneducated person.

did I not ask u not to resort to long and meaningless rhetorics?

If I were the prophet and there was Aisha, yes. Why; read the ahadith that discussed it. The prophet saw Aisha twice as a gift to him, in his dream. Dream of prophets are always true. It is revelation.

Now am assuming that Aisha was 9 years old in the second yeatr of Hijr in Madina. When was Aish born; before her father became muslim or not, which was the first year of Islam in Makka? And there was Islam for 13 years in Makka before the Prophet and his companion (RA) Abu Bakr (the Bill Gates of Makka before Islam) went to Madina.

Now, I am intersted in younger women. If I live in a society that 9 is the minimum age of maturity, you bet, since my action will not be unusual for my cultural norms. In Africa 15 is more matured for the most part 21 of USA and the West. Yet 18 is the legal age in America. People marry well younger that the age of 18, you know. Your idea is not sound. Should we judging Makka and Madina of over 1400 years ago by the standard of New York City or London of 2009? In the days when makkans used to fight generational wars, it will be expected that people grow fast and die young, too. The Jews are still saying that the age of maturity is still 13 years to this day. Yet there was a time that 13 years old poeple were still in Elementary school, in Nigeria. Today, people as young as 15 are already High School Levers. Should we judge the 13 years old boy or girl of 1950 as retard because in 2009, 15 years olds are preparing to enter the University?

This is ridiculous.

when u think of a girl repeatedly before u sleep, u are bound to dream of her. mohammed cannot hide under this figment of lie. mohammed was simply infatuated to a 9 year old girl, and since allah approved all forms of evil including, beheading, amputation and endless killings, it wasnt hard for allah to allow mohammed sexually assault a 9 year old girl.

what are the qualities of a prophet? is mohammed a prophet? did he perform any miracles? did he make any prophecies?
This is a raw display of ignorance.

Uhh! Muhammad (AS) did not have a son who reached teenage years before death. All his daughter, except Fatima Zarah (RA) died before him! What are you talking about? Go read man and stop eating uo lies that they feed you!

Are u denying that mohammed snatched his adopted son's wife?

Moses killed people because Allah/Eloi said so! Whats the difference? Command is Command, man. Its I hear and Obey! (And I will not even talk about Jesus' intent to fight, except Allah did not permit him. Why would any purchase of Sword be necessary except there is a purpose for it?Considering that it was so important that you have to sell your few cloth to purchase a single SWORD!).

whats the basis of comparing moses to mohammed? And for ur information, Jesus NEVER knew allah.

allah is an arabian idol, JESUS is GOD.

Whats animal like sexual appetite, if we factor in David, the father of Jesus (Check your Jesus geneology) or Solomon who had 700 wives and 300 concubines? So that you dont accuse me of avoiding your question, which is all that you say, consider a man who has such supposed "animal like sexual appetite" should not stop at just whatever number he stopped; 11 or less. He would have married all the virgins and pretty women in town. Come to think of it, the Makkans offered him such a deal, so that he can stop attacking PAGANISM! Surprising that he turned it down, instead, but sticking to his Mission of Monotheism! What an animal like sexual appetite that didnt live up to its billing!

what explanation do u have for his animal-like sexual appetite, that allowed him to SHAMELESSLY sleep with common slaves?

And you did not give an example of such a nation. I will be looking forward to know which nation or people he fought unprovoked! And Moses a prophet who Allah/Eloi spoke to personally fought people all the way to "Israel, the "Promised land!"" Should Muhammad who looked up and resembled Moses fail to do so? I will still be expecting the name(s) of the "unprovoked nation(s)."

Watch hm, guys. Noetic will not be able to produce one in good conscience. I doubt if he has good conscience, though.

This is ridiculous.

What EXACTLY did the inhabitants of mecca and medina do to mohammed before he waged war against them? He killed them simply because they refused to elevate a local arabian idol called allah, its wife allat and 3 daughters to a GOD status.

Among all the 360 idols around Kaaba, etc and the arab lands and tribe at large, no one of them "gods" is called Allah! Go study. The Arabs knew Allah existed as an Invincible and never to be represented "Deity/God. Surah Fil (The Elephant) incidence demonstrated t, without a single doubt. And this happened before Muhammad (AS) was born! Read, man and stop being so uninformed!

allah is a local arabian god who had a wife and 3 daughters.  Can u produce ANY historical evidence excluding ur koran, to suggest that allah was not a local idol elevated by mohammed?

Read the Quran and you will see many verses where forgiveness is mentioned. Forgiveness is a real option in Islam, you know! Now that we have set the stage for the many "unfair punishments" that you listed above, could you tell me if any of the old prophets before Jesus practiced any of these, for the same or less offense, in degree that what Muhammad did?

Lets have a deal.

For every koranic verse u produce that preaches forgiveness, I will produce 5 that does not. deal?

If you don't know then I will ask you to wonder what prompted the Jews to bring the "prostitute" to Jesus for judgement? She is a prostitute, which means that she is not married! A married woman will never be stoned to death, in Islam!

Finally, only to amuse myself and hopefully to awaken your coscience; After Jesus saved the woman from being killed for adultery, was there a woman or man with the Israelite community who died for the same offense? Didn't Jesus say that he came to uphold the Laws and the Prophets?

Where is the congruency between upholding the laws and the prophets and turning around to legislate against the most Important Prophet to the Children of Israel's code of sexual conduct? Lets think just for a moment, where the honesty of saying and acting upon it is, here?


Which one of his daughters are you talking about? Give me name or names, please. I want to learn from you, if you know anything I dont know! And knowledge is not by age. And Islamic knowledge is not restricted to the muslims, only. But Iman of Islam is!



I did, already. Now consider the "aloo apa gbe" of the yoruba culture. It is long and full of information. Thats how people talk. People give many instances to support their intended statement. Learn that, so that you may use it in the future.

all of these are meaningless semantics. You answered NONE of my questions.

SeanT21:
Black and Atheist sounds like an oxymoron.I think we all have noticed that there are a few black atheist.Blacks around the world,especially Africa and the US, seems to all be religious.All the blacks I met believed in a higher power. I never knew there was a thing known as "BLACK ATHEIST" until I came across some on cyberspace.An atheist Jamaican friend once told me that being an atheist in Jamaica is very depressing.They look at her with disgusted looks on their faces when she explains to them her beliefs.They even go as far to insult her and use words like "lost", "satanic", etc.

"Going To church" in the black community is more like a tradition.Everyone is entitled to do so.For all my years living in the US, I have not heard of a black Atheist. I think the reason that there are so few African American atheists is because African Americans, in general, have a stronger sense, of community and being associated and attached to their communities and families. This of course can be a good thing in certain situations, but with the religion thing, they don't want to question their belief in God because they don't want to think of themselves as different than and therefore less attached to their community and family.

In Liberia and everywhere across Africa God is everywhere. Phrases like "Thank God", "God is Good", "The Devil is a Liar", "Praise God" are commonly used.Even witchcrafts belive in God. In My country Liberia, If U dare insult Jesus or God, U better hide in the tree. These people will literally murder you with their words.

Why are BLACKS IN GENERAL such huge believers in GOD? Is it because of Whites who brought christianity with them to africa that some africans deemed it the "White Mans religion"? Did White Slave owners force Christianity on their slaves?? Was Christianity in Africa before the whites arrived??

As for all the Nairalanders out there that are Atheist, what reactions do U get from Blacks in general??

Enough has been said about what drives religion, but the question now is what drives atheism? whats the basis of an atheists beliefs?

At least on nairaland here, atheists have been repeatedly engaged in debates/discussions to clarify their beliefs, NONE of them has been able to do so. Is it safe to state that atheism is driven by ignorance and deceptive illiteracy? The answer cannot be far fetched.

It is impossible to see reason with an atheist, because of his ridiculously baseless and ever changing beliefs. An atheist questions religious beliefs (for alleged dogmatism) which is a norm within the intellectual circle, but when this criticism on its own becomes a belief (atheism) then it has to be properly defined to be understood.

If atheists cannot explicitly state and present evidences to support their belief/position, then they are just as ridiculous as the religions they criticise, cos atheism has NO connection with science. Atheism is based on faith and hope that there is no GOD.

The average black man has no business being an atheist, cos He believes in the existence of GOD, just like an atheist believes in the non-existence of GOD.

babs787:
@Noetic2



It is because you are not intelligent enough to read the truth


Yes very disappointed at your not comprehending my post. You asked for the reason, I gave you in which you asked another question and I provided response but you seemed not satisfied. Na wa for you, how you manage pass for your school sef?

please read ur post again. can a non religious person, make any meaning out of it?

I dont understand why after 10 pages:

1. there is still no scientific or intellectual evidence as requested.

2. none of the opening post questions were answered

3. pilgrim allowed huxley to successfully divert the topic and digress the thread.

olabowale:
This woman dont even know when to stop peddling her lies. Woman rest abit. Ndo. Daa lu.

your heart is as hard as stone. thou pathetic slave of allah.

[quote author=Túdor link=topic=282790.msg4022982#msg4022982 date=1244905324]Quote from: Jatador on Today at 01:24:53 PM
Hmmm! Muslims will burn in hell forever too



isn't it unethical and unislamic to be partial? abuzola procllaims christians are going to hell forever and his post isn't deleted. meanwhile jatador just repeats the same thing and its quickly erased. . .

who am i kidding. . . .what did i expect from muslims[/quote]that is simply called ONLINE TERRORISM . . . .what they cant do to u physically (terrorise), they do it by their ridiculous inactions.
from lagosboy to pilgrim to jarus . . . . all are a bunch of HYPOCRITES, who keep denying the EVIL deeds of islam.

are these deeds not revealed in their inactions as moderators?

[quote author=Túdor link=topic=283362.msg4023096#msg4023096 date=1244907357]look here, i'm not ready to get banned for the third time today! let it be at least one month before i start thinking how to twist my username. . .

several times on this forum the likes of davidylan and noetic have shown you the contradictions in your koran,each time you return with senseless voluminous epistles. this isn't a quaranic school where we chant over andover again. . . Alhaji i no fit shout![/quote]u mean the mohammedans have been harassing u again?

When will these guys realise that there is something called freedom of speech.

bawomolo:
I'm too complex to be comprehended.  You just can't understand me no matter how you try.

Have faith in me and stop being a doubting thomas.

thou has made no sense.

whether Abiola would have made a good president is an ambiguous one. But the truth is that the annulment denied this country a fresh and good re-beginning. An Abiola president would have made all the mistakes obasanjo made between 1999-2007 and we would probably have overcome most of these problems by now.

Abiola remains a democratic symbol, good president or not.

bawomolo:
because i'm God to you niggas 

who is GOD? what is HIS ontology?

bawomolo:
says the Islam basher. now back off.

why should I? . . . .thou ignorant atheist.

bawomolo:
i was dealing with a point osisi was trying to make. i'm not looking for proofs from the bible.

Would you drop the bomb on nagasaki if you were a pilot?

why do u keep recycling unintelligent questions?

why not think deeply and ask a thought provoking question?

why should i believe this crap of a LIE?

if there is a "real" bible, what stops allah from producing it?

in other words terror is another name for muslim. . . .right?

and what EXACTLY did u state there? you are so pathetic!

you have not said anything intelligent enough to warrant a definite response.

cant u see the way i stated my case on the opening post. I am disappointed.

@olabowale

please answer the questions I asked u in #11 and stop all this long stories.

what do u understand by christianity?

huxley2:
Did you not see the definitions I gave above?

yes i did. did u state the basis of both atheistic beliefs?

do u have a reading and comprehension problem? if according to u, atheism is not science, what EXACTLY is the basis of ur atheistic belief?

huxley2:
Pardon me, but is that the question of the thread? What is wrong with you? Please, stick to the question of the thread or incur some caustic insults which I shall save until you try to derail the thread again.

U said atheism is not science. fine.

The question is, if atheism is not science, what then is it? (from ur perspective). is that too difficult to answer?

I believe all ur questions/concerns on that thread have been addressed.