pazienza:


I will still go with Edda position on this, it makes more sense to me seeing as edda is a neutral party in this, i believe OkeIgbo became lost in translation to Okigbo, and the Aros never cared, cos it suit they ego. Of course, there was some form of ethnic consciousness pre colonial.

I hope that thing on the Edda wiki page where some guy scribbled that "Arü Oké Igbo" means "Arü Òkè Igbo" is not the basis of this your argument. I don't see any evidence supporting your hypothesis that Edda calls Aro "Arü Òkè Igbo". Where is this written? In fact, why should Edda call Aro such when Edda also borders non-Igbo land? Are you insinuating that Edda was the first to call Aro this name and then everyone else followed suit? Your points don't add up. I still don't understand how people as far away as Onicha and Nkwere found out that Aro bordered non-Igbo-speaking territory and began calling them that as if they were the only people to border non-Igbo-speaking territory. As if the concept of Igbo as a nation even existed back then!

To me, it seems like you're trying hard to stick on to your belief. Fine. You already made up your mind long before this conversation started.

Obiagu1:

That's funny, who wrote that?
When did Ibini Ukpabi's name turn to Okigbo?

I nugo ife m gwalu I. Adiro agwa okenye ofu okwu ugboro ibua.

pazienza:


I would go with the Edda view, seeing as it made a lot of sense. Perhaps, as arochukwu grew and their power and importance grew too, Okeigbo began to take a new meaning,to suit their new found relevance, power and ego.

Saying this suggests that there was some sort of ethnic consciousness in this pre-colonial era. Besides, peoples all over Igboland referred to Arochukwu as "Aro Okigbo". How could Onicha known that Arochukwu was at the edge of Igbo territory? How did Ikwere know that Arochukwu was at the edge of Igbo territory? Isn't Ikwere on the edge of Igboland itself? Why isn't there an Ikwere Okigbo?

It doesn't make sense. Also, bearing in mind the significant role which Ibini Ukpabi played in Igbo affairs in the pre-colonial era, you can clearly see the most likely meaning.

Obiagu1:

It has always been known as OkeIgbo (Igbo boundary).
People never called it OkiIgbo/OkeIgbo (Great Igbo) from the way it is pronunciation except those that are reading it wrongly online.

Why do you act as if you know everything?

The name "Aro Okigbo" was what other Igbo peoples called Arochukwu because it was the home of Ibini Ukpabi, the highest oracle in Igboland; the physical location of Chukwu himself. It had nothing to do with Aro being at the fringe of Igboland.

Sonya4all, cheta na iwe nwanne erughi n'okpukpu.

Interesting thread.

pazienza: According to edda people, Aros were called Aro Okeigbo, because they were stationed at the boundary between the Igbos and Ibibios. Oke= boundary.

I don't think so (at least that's not what we Aro believe).

bigfrancis21:

Man, I must say that you're quite versatile in various Igbo dialects. Just the other day you spoke fluent anambra.

@You and Radoillo

I wanted to ask this since. The Dimitri guy who wrote the 'Standardization of Igbo language.pdf' article, is he actually a dutch/russian person? Or an Igbo man using a dutch/russian name as pseudonym?

I'm wondering this because his article(s) is overtly comprehensive and well-detailed to every bit of it to be written by an outsider. I'm just wondering.

I pick up what little I can whenever I can . Ugbuluka asuga m Owere, mana nnyafu asulu m Onicha, echi m ma-asuwa nni Aro.

I see Chinenye and Radiollo beat me to your question lol.

ChinenyeN:
Aaa. Wokhoro i chogha onye la i kpa nighinighi; la onwu kena i di sii ishi nmaa nma weee.

Whne ahu abugh whne m choro o. Whne ke m kaara gi bu la iji gh otu Ngwa nji di uto. Biko, ma agaa kwafu ukwaara....lol

Woko m, okwu gh ke o putara ngiri? I la-ekwu ka I magh la m mbu ejigbo wa afo. Igbo lile di mu uto l'ire.

So many topics have been created on this same issue. We don't allow several threads that are very similar to each other. Simply search 'osu' in the Nairaland search bar to find/read a thread. I might be forced to lock this thread if you don't find a way to differentiate it from the others. I apologize for the inconvenience.

If I understand correctly, you want to know if I know what the literal translation is.

"m di" - "do I usually"
"iri" - "eat" or "consume" or "share"
"la whne gh" - "from you" or "from what is yours" or "depend on you".

In Izugbe it would be: "adi m mbu erinara gi". And if someone were to ask me that [in Ngwa], I would reply [in Ngwa] "Unh-unh, i digh eri la whne m, kama o so gh, I bia ta anyi rijuo afo m'o I hafu"

Pharoh:

It could have been a case of blanket targeting everyone from the east by claiming they were all igbos. Now out of curiosity, you did not mention the people of the midwest been targeted after the counter coup, so why were they not targeted as well?.

I don't know much about that. What I do know is that after the overthrow of Aguiyi-Ironsi's government, people started murdering Igbos (from both sides of the Niger) throughout Nigeria and the government turned a blind eye. I'm not even in this debate. I just had to say something about that disturbing statement you made. For the meantime, I'm still making my way through Chinua Achebe's "There Was A Country"...

A friend sent it to me. It was produced in 1949. I don't know if there others like it, but if I come across any, I'll be sure to share them.

ChinenyeN:
My ears..

Anyway, Odumchi, I don't know if you remember or not, but a while back I had a certain Ngwa idiom as my signature [m di iri la whne gh]. You supposedly called an "expert on Igbo dialects" about it and she couldn't decipher it Well, at 5:50 of the video, Enwernemadhu actually uses the expression. Listen to it. Who knows. Maybe after all this while, you might have picked up a thing or two more about okwu Ngwa and could possibly figure out the meaning.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPbgMDBWtDE=em

I remember lol.

I actually understood what he said, though. The problem is not really that I don't understand Ngwa; it's that I don't understand/I'm not familiar with your orthography. Most of the time I don't even know how to pronounce these things you write. I've watched this video several times and each time I understood almost everything they said, except for a few idiomatic expressions and words here and there.

In Standard Igbo what Enwernemadhu would be:
"Aga m eri na gini mere?" It means something to the effect of: "I'd rather starve than concede weakness".

No be so?

Interesting.

Uproot their authority.
Appoint a local representative.
Teach them our government style.
Teach them our language and culture.
Give Western education.
Make them compete amongst themselves.

The British were wicked.

I came across this film and thought I should share it. It's in the Udi dialect of Igbo.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYJBjxWN95U

Pharoh:

Please i will like you to provide a proof of this annexation and now to reply your comment. The declaration of biafra included ibibios, ekoi, ijaws and other smaller non igbo groups. Now looking at what led to the declaration of biafra, we could trace it to the fact that igbos were being killed up northern Nigeria and not those other groups who were included in the original declaration.

The war didn't happen so long ago that we should be confusing things like this. Easterners in general were targeted. It just so happened that the Igbo had the overwhelming majority of the population of the East, so most cases of violence directed against Easterners were against Igbos.

Radoillo: Thanks

It might not be a coincidence; Awka might have picked up certain usages from the people they worked among. Other people might have picked from them as well; I really can't say. (We might have picked 'wa' from Agbaja, and 'iwo' from Abiriba...It could equally have been the other way.)

Uma and akparamagwa aren't used in Awka. Agwa is used - 'One can say, 'Ele I shi akpa agwa'. 'The way you behave'.

Ele in Awka and ele in Bende zone might derive from a common source, but it appears both dialect areas use it differently.

As an Aro man, I was half-expecting you to disagree with the account that the founder of Aro-Ndikelionwu was an Awka slave boy (adopted and raised as an Aro man)... the way Nri priest has been contesting some of the things i said concerning Nri-Awka relations...LOL

Thanks. This is really interesting.

Actually, I don't disagree with anything in particular regarding the account of the founder of Aro-Ndikelionwu being an adopted slave. I find it quite plausible, in fact. We Aro people have always been in the numerical minority and we have always been conscious of this fact. Our ancestors openly adopted slaves and foreigners and incorporated them into their families and bloodlines so as to grow exponentially in number and influence. So it's nothing out of the ordinary. Nri-Priest is an Anambra Nri supremacist. You can't discuss anything concerning Igboland with him without first accepting Nri as your lord and savior.

What an excellent and informative thread. A breath of fresh air. Who knew that wild elephants once roamed the Anambra plain, or that a people had developed a hunting culture in pursuit of these creatures?

Radiollo, I don't know whether it's a coincidence or if there's a legitimate explanation for this, but some of the elements of Awka dialect which you explained mirror those found in dialects in my area (Bende zone).

?Central Igbo – otu (English: Way/Manner)
Awka – ele [In a sentence: ‘Ele I shi eme omefu adụrọ mma’ or ‘Ele I shi eme omefu amaagara.’ Means ‘The way you behave is not good’ or ‘Otu I si eme omume adịghị mma’ in Central Igbo]

Communities in my local government (Arochukwu, Ihechiowa, Okobo, Ututu) use 'ele' but in a slightly different manner. We use it to either mean 'way/manner' or in comparisons and it replaces 'ka' in Central Igbo. 'I di ele nwami/nwonyinye onhu' means 'you look like that woman' in Ututu dialect.

Your use of 'nne' is also very similar to how we use 'nnaa', which is pronounced like 'I gaa' (you did not go). There are many ways we use 'nnaa' and its exact meaning often fluctuates based on context. However when someone says something worthy of agreement, we either say 'o nnaa' or 'owei', whereas a Central Igbo-speaker would say 'o eziokwu'.

Also, since 'omefu' means 'behavior' in Awka, do 'uma' (behavior/habit) 'agwa' and 'akparamagwa' (character) exist in your lexicon?

Nwonyeke, I vakaala nvaka! (You have tried)

Let's have this on the front page.

This is Igbo Izugbe (Academic Igbo). Look at how mechanical it sounds! It seems as if even the newscasters were having difficulty speaking it. A language is supposed to flow out of you.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnA2_ayexiQ&sns=em

hardbody:

Where I come from, if the 'Aju Mmai' has not been dropped in the proper number at the right places, in generations to come, if daughter of the woman who today is married off in the east comes to get married, for any reason back home, they will first conclude teh 'Aju Mmai' process of all the mothers ahead of the present daughter before they commence her own traditional marriage. Essentially, if people want to marry offshore, they had better be sure that all their generations going forward should not come home for any marriage celebrations.

Further, when a child of such a marriage comes home, it is not out of place to hear people poke fun at him/her by asking, where did they drop your mother's 'Aju Mmai'? Such a question simply implies that the mother was never really married.

Where I come from (Arochukwu Kingdom), it is a very big deal. All my cousins that got married abroad, had at some point in time or another come home to complete the marriage proeedings (call it rituals if you like) in the village. I guess we are strongly rooted in matters of this nature and culture for us is sacrosanct.

Now whether the expenditure is justifiable, i am in no position to explain. However, as for those raising issues of security, i believe all Nigerians walking the streets are all dead.

Nwanne, o nnaa.

lawyer:

So are you saying if I love my ibo fiance to death and both our families are based in Lagos, her father has a family home in Lagos, all our friends and relatives are in Lagos and it would save us a couple of Thousands or Millions if we choose to do the Traditional marriage in Lagos in her father's compound with all the families of the couple there, No traditional wedding should take place again because we didn't go to Owerri to do it? I should break up with her because I am degrading the cultural custom of an Ibo traditional marriage? If I spend all the money to do party in the village, transport everybody to the village to break kola nut and after the wedding I cannot feed my wife because I have satisfied the cultural rites in the village, will that make sense to you?

The marriage is traditional for a reason and you must celebrate it according to the customs of her people's land. If you know that you cannot carry out the traditional marriage the proper way, then don't do it or wait till you can! Do not degrade another man's culture because you find it more convenient to do things your way. Simple.

deadie:


The op has a valid point, and you don't. It is unfortunate that some people (like you) find it ok to degrade our culture but will defend their religious rituals to death. As an instance, people now use Italian wine (my cousin had to because her religious husband believes that drinking palm wine is a sin!) instead of the traditional palm wine. And people like you will probably support it. Will you agree to the use of palm wine for your holy communion? Over your dead body I hear you say.

The point is that it is not compulsory to do a traditional wedding. But if you choose to, then it is proper to do it the right way. It is my business when it involves my culture as I am against its degradation.

Thank you. It's shameful how so many people are open to the degradation of their traditional marriage customs, some even considering it "not necessary". Can you imagine? Your own people's marriage traditions (which have been practiced since time immeomorial) are no longer necessary, but the white man's wedding is now more important? Inferiority complex at its worst.

Some may say that it's none of my business how people choose to conduct their traditional weddings, but it is my culture and therefore involves me. What we're witnessing is the degredation of culture and cultural customs; any person concerned with the integrity of his people's cultural values will speak out.

Personally, I find it funny when people conduct so-called "traditional" marriages (which oftentimes are not traditional in in any way, shape, or form and are simply parties in which the bride and groom are dressed in lace or ankara) overseas instead of going home [to Nigeria]. I understand that sometimes there might be financial constraints and all that, but that doesn't negate the fact that [to me] it's such a weird idea. I mean, isn't the idea behind marrying someone traditionally supposed to be fulfilling the marital customs of the woman's land (speaking from the Igbo perspective)?

Speaking from my culture's perspective, a traditional marriage is a social event in which all of the head members of the bride's family formally "hand away" their daughter to the groom's family. These marriages are always performed at the compound of the bride's parents and follow the rules and regulations of the bride's land and end with the long procession of the groom, his new wife, and his people, back to their home. With this in mind, I'd like to seek your opinions on this issue? What do you think about "ovaseez marajiz".

bigfrancis21:



I'm totally in support of dialect preservation. It showcases the beauty and diversity of the Igbo language. A historian's count of Igbo dialects was over 800. I don't remember the man's name.

Modern Igbo-language musicians use more of central Igbo in their songs. The ilk of Osadebe, Morocco, and other great musicians sang purely in their native dialects. But the trend currently has changed. Sonny Bobo's Owerri songs employs substantial central Igbo, not exclusively Owerri. It is quite rare to find a purely Owerri native song. Flavour n'Abania from Anambra combines both Anambra + central Igbo. And so on. The modern trend nowadays has changed. And I fear that in some years' time, it will be hard to find musicians singing purely in their native dialects.

You're right. There's definitely been a shift - at least among musicians from certain areas. At the same time, a handful of musicians like Bogar Bongo, Koko Nwa Jesus, Shama Melody, Chijioke Mbanefo (Osadebe Jr), and Saro Wiwa are still trying to keep the dialect tradition alive. I'd say that if the trend continues, the only place where artists would definitely still be singing in their raw native dialects languages would be in Delta. Anioma artists are trying.

As for my signature, let Radiollo take a guess first.

Afam4eva: But how can anyone expect people who live in cities like Aba or Enugu to maintain the dialects of these places. These cities are cosmopolitan and are filled with Igbos from every length and breadth and Central Igbo tends to take pre-eminence in such places. What we should be striving for, is to maintain our villages and small towns because those are the places where our dialects can be preserved.

The reason we know about the Romans and other ancient peoples today is because they were smart enough to leave written records. Without these records nothing would be known about their history, culture, or language. The same goes for the Igbo. The earlier people realize the danger and vulnerability present in leaving their cultures and dialects unrecorded, the better. In creating records (whether digital or textual) of every aspect of our lives, we will be saving a wealth of information for future generations because, whether we like it or not, things change. Today's Igbo dialects probably sound nothing like they did in the year 1850. Unfortunately, we will never know. Why? Because our ancestors had no means of recording them. We, the generation of today, should take advantage of our blessings.

bigfrancis21:

Odumchi, Anambra gi dikwa great!

Daalu so. O buro obele ife lol.

Ebe obuna ndi Igbo jelu fa ya-agbaba mbo mekalia ndi nwelu ana. Nya ka eji kpo ayi "Obialu mba ka mba". Eze, chili ora gaba n'iru. Ana m eche inu na onye Igbo dolu oche onye isi obodo Ghana.

ame2010: The inquiry into ikwerre names and their meanings is beneficial if used for the sole purpose of informing the readers. It will also serve a good purpose when ikwerre words or names are used alongside igbo names to indicate similarities or none thereof. We can analyze those words and upgrade our vocabularies in the different dialects that constitute ikwerre and igbo languages.

All of igbo and ikwerre dialects can be grouped into one language, namely ikwerre language or igbo language. This may come to you as a shock since no one ever has the the neutral ground. Has it ever occurred to you that the igbos could be descendants of the ikwerres. and that migration may have gone northwards. Now is that a terrible thing to say. All Inquiries into history should start from admission of the individual parts that make up the whole and not the other way round.

I must inform you that what I claim in this little note is not an established fact. I am not a historian and not qualified to inform others on this subject. As an ikwerre son, I am tired of hearing one side of the story expressed everywhere. I agree with most of the voices that claim the ibos and the ikwerres to be one, and that the ikwerres rejection of kinship with the igbos was for geopolitical gain at a time in nigeria when the few ikwerre leaders were asked to choose between having an ikwerre nation or be part of an igbo nation that was losing a war. It was also a result of their historical experience in dealing with the igbos that they arrived at isolation from the ibos.

This is the shock I referred to earlier. THE IGBOS ARE DESCENDANTS OF IKWERRE. How is this remotely possible? We were taught in History that the first settlers stay close to source of water. They will fight for generations to protect their location. the community will continue to expand to less fertile regions. If the ibos who have always claimed to be brave warriors were the original settlers, they would have driven the ikwerres into the atlantic ocean and laid claim to what is presently and has always been and will forever be IKWERRELAND.

My deduction from all of these is that both ikwerre and ibos are one. There is an extensive proof to this in our common language, and that that language could be igbo or ikwerre or even the igbo spoken in Onitsha or asaba. Just because you have a larger population does not mean you are the main tribe and all others are descendants. Check the population of Egypt today and compare that to Nigeria. Let us be happy that we have more that unite us as we continue to travel this path of history. We may not agree to where we came from, please let us agree to where we are going.

THE OPINION EXPRESSED HERE AND THE POSITION TAKEN ARE MINE AND MINE ALONE. THEY ARE ONLY THE OPINION OF AN INDIVIDUAL
MY NAME IS AMEWHULE and igbo variants are AMAEFUNA, AFANAMEFUNA, AHANAMEFUNA, AMAEFULE AHAMEFULE which in both culture signify continuity.
Ask any ibo or ikwerre they will tell that continuity is ultimate objective in these cultures. May we continue to have male children. check out the names; HANACHOR, HANETU, WOKEKORO for ikwerre and IHEANYINACHOR, IFEANYINACHOR are for ibos. I am sure there are more of such names on both sides that signify the continuity of the family.

The problem is that you're referring to the Igbo as if they are a single people, instead of recognizing that just like Ikwere is unique there are a multitude of unique elements that form the Igbo identity. There are dozens of peoples that form the Igbo identity and Ikwere is was one of them. Comparing Ikwere to Igbo is like comparing a catfish to all the species of fish in the sea. Your argument would've been more plausible if you were comparing Ikwere and Ngwa, or Ikwere and Urata.

About the origins of Ikwere: the general migratory direction of a number of Igbo peoples was southward, away from the Niger-Benue confluence and towards the coast. The Igbo Ikwere communities in Rivers have been archeologically and historically proven to be younger than the communities in the hinterland. A large portion of Ikwereland was populated by waves of immigrants from Mbaise, Urata, Ngwa, and Arochukwu, who moved southwards in search of farmland and trade routes.

Your names aren't all that strange. There are Igbo communities that answer: Kalu, Heoma, Nmerengen, Nmerenini, Okoko, Wali, Wogu, Ehinze, Ukpabi, Kanu, Obasi, Kemji, Ivi, and etc.