₦airaland Forum

@Manmustwac: England seem to warp the thinking of almost all of you africans on nairaland. Most of you are now atheist or agnostics. Man, I gave you Surah Iklas. Read it, you will know that He truly Physically exist. When He was indicated to be Visible to believers, in the day of Judgement, is that in your mind not physical, since the believers are going to be physical?

How about His Throne which are carried by Rows of Angels? Manmustwac, biko, go sleep. When you come to your senses, pick up Qur'an and read. If you ask any knowledgeable muslim about Allah's physical existence, and he denies it, know that he is a hypocrite. Allah is not like His creations, He is Unique and completely different.

@Blissfullynaughty: « on: Today at 11:07:27 PM »  

When ever I come to nairaland I sometimes come to the religion forum. I like the debates and the topics, I try to contribute whenever I feel I have something significant to say. I try as best as possible not insult anybody because I believe it achieves nothing.

Unfortunately, I can not say the same for a lot of people, especially Muslims.

Naughty girl. Birds do it, Bees do it. To say that only Muslims on nairaland is Insulting others, is a "blatant lie!" See I a a muslim, if you take my frank statement of observation as Insult. lol. Now we are getting to the meat of the discussion.

If I have ever come across a group of people who do not have good etiquette's when holding a debate, I would have to say it is the Muslims all over the world.

Then it must be the Muslims who fill out the house of Commons in England. If you ask me, they seem to be very rude, even to their Prime Minister! Have you ever seen them behave unruly before in the chamber?

I don't know wether, it stems from insecurity, or inferiority complex, I feel the only method they use to get there point across is to threaten others who dare to question their religion and polygamist prophet.

In the tradition of davidDylan: if you are not a muslim you have no right to speak ill about it. lol.
Now, is polygamy something you are against? Where are you from in Africa? Sorry, Nigeria? Even Igbo people can't boast that there is no polygamy in their culture. The Yorubas, which I am from is not always polygamous. And finally, not all the Muslim men are polygamous.

Muhammad (AS) served a very important marital example for all men. If one wee to follow Jesus, in this case, the whole of Christendon will be dead, by now. You will agree with me that Jesus can not be followed by any man in marital condition. And by the way, we love our Prophet, the Unlettered one, (AS), the way he was. Now whats your complaint; go get married, woman. Its fun. Make some babies and your parents will have grandbabies.

Unfortunately this problem seems to be consistent with almost ALL groups of Muslims (no names are necessary, I am sure we all know the way they behave - see all the death threats against Salman Rushdie, the Danish Cartoon saga, the destruction in Nigeria that resulted in the cancellation of the Miss World pageant).

Salman Rushdie even recounted his own statement. How unreal is that? he was like a skiddish guy, not even sure which way is up. And as I have said, the danish man, unless he was a Muslim, he had no right to criticise any muslim. Just the same way I am not criticising your religion. I may critic it, but that is different from Criticisng. One is honest opinion and observation, while the other is possibly lies. Which one are you practicing here?

It leaves me to think, that there is still so much that Islam does not teach you.

In your own word, give me a single example. lol.

You always talk about your Mohammed, but I put it to you that if a great number of you look at his teachings and conclude that he advocated violence and intolerance,

No muslim, in his right mind will reach the silly opinion that you put forward, as a conclusion of what the Nobliest of prophets taught! How can you honestly conclude any advocacy of violence and intolerance from him?

you need to jettison your religion and get a better one. At the very least,  I believe a lot of you need to go back to the drawing board.

You miss the mark, woman. So get back to the drawing board, yourself! lol. This woman must be a regular comedian. I need to get her to perform at the Improv!

Now, there is an almost identical thread vilifying chriatains that was posted on the religion childboard by a muslim almost two weeks ago [See https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=190941.msg3037948#msg3037948]. None of the moderators has seen it fit to delete the thread, lock it or ban the person who started the thread. Let us hope that this thread would be accorded the same respect.

If you were going to be consistent with the other thread, you should have posted this on Christian section.

NB - To the moderators, it is a well known fact that both of you are muslims, so do not try to pull the wool over anyones eyes by now locking or deleting that thread so that you can justify locking or deleting this one. Just leave both threads and let the debates rage on.

lol. So blissfullynaughty, how can you be naughty and be blissful at the same time?

Thank Allah. Your man was talking about the Christian god. I agree with him. Allah is the Existing God. Muhammad said that in the day of judgement, the believers in Paradise, as part of their reward, a thing separating them from the disbelievers who are being punished in hell, is that they will see Allah, as clearly as one sees a full moon in a very clear night.

Allah also says in the Qur'an that He will not look and He will not talk to the people going to Hellfire. Allah describes Himself as the Seer, the Hearer and Knower of all things. In the Qur'an He says that His arms reach all things and stretch to cover all. Muhammad (AS) always said about his Lord, when he swore; "By the One whose hand is the soul of Myhammad (AS)!"

There are many verses in the Qur'an which clearly indicate the existence of Allah: Allah talks to the Angels, then the Jinn who was Iblis before he became Shaitan. The Angels and Iblis heard His voice: about the creation of man the viceroy to the earth, which the Angels answered and expressed their concern about the evilness that may occur, again on earth; Surah Baqarah, verse 30 and few after it.


Allah spoke to Musa at the burning bush about the mission to Egypt, to warn Fir'awn, who was an unjust ruler, oppressing the tribes or nations of the Children of Israel. Finally, Muhammad (as) many contacts for 23 years with Malaika Jibril. He spoke to Jibril who confirmed that he was sent to Muhammad by Allah to Muhammad, who was by the first pieceof Qur'anic revelation "Surah Alaq, verses 1-5, became the Messenger and Prophet of Allah to mankind. In Surah Isra, we read the night transport of Muhammad from Makka to Jerusalem, where from Jerusalem, he ascended to heavens. He returned the same night by the same route to Makka.

The animal of transport was Buraq, tied up at the "wall", in Jerusalem, while he led 240, 000 previous human messengers and prophets, in Prayer, known as salah Ibrahima. Incidentally, Malaika Jibril was the only non-human among them who prayed behind him, in this prayer. Other persons behind him included our human father, the first man, Adam, Idris, Noah known for the flood, Ibrahim known as a true believer, father of all prophets after him, a personal friend of Allah, Musa who Allah destroyed Fir'awn of Egypt through him, Isa bin Mariam, the last Messenger/Prophet of the bloodline of Yakub, who was known as Israel.


In Surah Najm, we read what Muhammad saw in heaven, in this night. Allah, in addition from giving him the 5 daily Salah for the Muslims, also gave him the last 4 verses of Surah Baqarah. This four verses was given in the Makka period, yet Surah Baqarah is a Madina Surah. But when you read the surah, from the beginning to the end, every verse fit with what was before and after it. Finally, this night, process of tashahuud in Salah was formed as a greating of praise of Allah, from Muhammad to his Lord, the Almighty, and the respond of the Merciful to honor His Messenger.

Maybe the Christian can not tell you what their god is, Surah 112 completely describes who and what Allah is. Huxley read it. Study the Qur'an, because your finally success or lack of it depends on it. Have you watched the video about Jeffrey Lange, who was an atheist, now a muslim?

Make Y! your home page Yahoo! recommends the new Firefox 3 Easily build a web site with Yahoo! Web Hosting. Yahoo! SearchWebImagesVideoLocalShopping
MoreAnswersAudioDirectoryJobsNewsAll Search ServicesAdvertising ProgramsDisable Search AssistSearch:
No suggestions. Please begin typing your search query.Search Assist: On | Off

Popular Yahoo! PropertiesYahoo! Home My Yahoo!
Nov 12, 2008 Page Options Color:Ocean Tangerine Violet Oyster Grass Pink
Switch to narrow layout

Want more ways to customize
your home page?
Try My Yahoo! »
Answers
Autos
Finance
Games
Groups
HotJobs
Maps
Mobile Web
Movies | TV
Music
OMG
Personals
Real Estate
Shine
Shopping
Sports
Travel
Yellow Pages

More Yahoo! Services
Small BusinessGet a Web Site
Domain Names
Sell Online
Search Ads
Featured ServicesDownloads
Health
Kids
GeoCities
Mail Plus
Y! International
Featured NavigationFeatured Entertainment Sports Video Nov 12, 2008
Surfer meets whale
An Australian kitesurfer describes his too-close encounter with a whale's tail. » What it felt like

See the biggest animal on Earth Find more about kitesurfing Kitesurfer gets wailed on by a whale's tail See LeBron's sweet dunk from just inside foul line A spokesman known as the 'Barack Whisperer' Bailout price tag now $3.5 trillion and rising » More:FeaturedBuzz
News NavigationNews World Local Finance In the NewsAs of 3:45 p.m. EST
• Disheartened Wall Street plunges for third straight session
• Poll: Public seems willing to wait for promised tax cuts
• Obama team expected to resolve Bush aide testimony dispute
• Iran test-fires precision missile that could reach Europe
• Government releases list of top five toy hazards for holidays
• Researchers find brisk walk can curb chocolate cravings

• Teen seen as reincarnated Buddha emerges from Nepal jungle

This event reminds anyone of anybody in the past? This young man is alive, presently in Nepal. he was reported to not have eaten any food for years. He once sat under a tree without moving for 2 years?!

He looks handsome, with ruggedly chiselled face. Long hair and lean frame. I am not surprised they think he is their god, too. The madness of disbelieving people. Its been happening for 2000 years now or even before. (The stupids always claim that a god is always walking on earth!).

» More:NewsPopularElection '08Markets:Dow: -4.3%Nasdaq: -4.4%Yahoo! FinanceReal-Time Quotes:

@Pilgrim.1: « #192 on: Today at 11:37:03 AM »

@KunleOshob,

I asked you to check and confirm the vacant assertion from justcool; but before you come back with another excuse, here's something to help you for starters:


Quote from: KunleOshob on Today at 11:06:36 AM
Is that not so very obvious the man has proved this by showing us several other versions that used the word "you" it was only KJV that omitted it and we already know that KJV as numerous translation errors

This is how that verse reads from where all those other "versions" derived their translations -

John 5:39

ερευνατε τας γραφας οτι υμεις δοκειτε εν αυταις ζωην
αιωνιον εχειν και εκειναι εισιν αι μαρτυρουσαι περι εμου

I am certain that Jesus speech in John 5;39, was not original made in Greek, but either Hebrew or Aramaic, since his primary audience was "Children of Israel." So give us this verse, John 5;39, in that exact original language. Can you?

I hope you can fish that out. Greek will not cut it, standing in place of still a spoken language of a vibrant people; the progenies of Jacob. (lol; I do miss you, sometimes. The same way I miss my dear friend Osisi). Am sure you always have your religious guard up.

@Cayon: I am not offended in the least. I was taking advantage of my Nigerians, in Nigeria, in America, and those who came here to do business with me, not knowing that they had fraud in mind, in the first place.

At least, you now believe that he is an improved man. I guess he was a born muslim. As I have said before, your father is more likely to be an Ijebu man from his family name, that you gave in much earlier post. I am an Ijebu man, too. And so is that dude named davidylan; lol. I think Seun by his Osewa last name must be Ijebu, too.

Ijebu is a yoruba subculture. Now, just imagine yourself as a muslim woman. Do you think you will be a better daughter, to your mom? An improved person in general? This is part of what is good about Islam; conscious improvement in behavior, morality, etc. One becomes more conscious of the Creator. One becomes more humble, with greater humility and humane.

If you see a muslim who is evil, he would have been more evil if he were not Muslim. If you see a non-muslim who is good, he will be beeter if he were a muslim.

@Bastage: Surah Al Rahman in the Qur'an, Verse 33; "Oh you assembly of Jinns and men!, if it be that pass beyond the zones of the heavens and the earth, then pass! Not without authority shall you be able to pass!"

And yesterday Nasa declared this about a mission to the space:

Phoenix R.I.P.: NASA says Mars probe is dead
Dust, fading sunlight lead to mission’s end, though team will keep listening

By Andrea Thompson
Senior writer

updated 5:38 p.m. ET, Mon., Nov. 10, 2008
The end seems to have finally come for NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander mission at the planet's north pole, scientists said Monday.

"At this time we're pretty convinced that the vehicle is no longer available for us to use," said the Phoenix mission's project manager, Barry Goldstein of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif.

"We knew this would happen eventually," Goldstein added.

Mission controllers lost touch with the lander on Nov. 2. That was "the last time we actually heard from Phoenix," Goldstein said. The spacecraft has been studying the arctic surface of the Red Planet for just over five months, since landing there May 25.

During the course of its mission, Phoenix scooped up samples of the Martian dirt and subsurface water ice at its arctic landing site and analyzed them for signs of the planet's past potential habitability. Phoenix touched down on the northern plains of a region known as Vastitas Borealis. The area is at a latitude on Mars equivalent to that of northern Alaska on Earth.

Phoenix successfully completed its mission objectives at the end of its three-month primary mission in August. The mission's cost was ultimately about $475 million (up from the $420 million for its original three-month mission).

"NASA's gotten what they wanted out of this mission," said Doug McCuistion, director of the Mars Exploration Program at NASA Headquarters in Washington. He noted, however, that Phoenix's "demise is a little earlier than we'd hoped."

Touching Martian water
Phoenix's big finding was to confirm the presence of water ice under the surface dirt layer in the northern plains. Phoenix "fulfilled dreams of touching Martian water for the first time," McCuistion said.

It also found that the dirt at the lander's location was more alkaline than the soil sampled by the Mars Exploration Rover missions (Spirit and Opportunity) closer to the equator. Phoenix's measurements also unexpectedly turned up signs of perchlorate, a possible source of energy for any potential life that could have once graced the Martian surface.

Phoenix's science team will now begin a thorough analysis of all the data received from the lander, said the mission's principal investigator, Peter Smith of the University of Arizona in Tucson.

"Phoenix has given us some surprises, and I'm confident we will be pulling more gems from this trove of data for years to come," Smith said.

The mission was "definitely the thrill of my life," he said.

Diminishing power
The lander's power supplies steadily diminished in recent weeks as the sun dipped toward the horizon with the approach of fall and winter to Mars' northern hemisphere. Phoenix went into its inactive safe mode briefly on Oct. 28, when a dust storm obscured the sky and limited the amount of sunlight hitting the lander's solar arrays. Phoenix restarted once the sun came up the following day.

For the next few days, Phoenix lost power or "browned out" at night, then woke up again the following morning when sunlight hit its solar arrays. Mission engineers tried to turn off any unnecessary instruments and heaters to keep the batteries alive, but "we were unsuccessful in keeping the batteries from browning out," Goldstein said.

The team was planning to send new instructions to the lander, but "unfortunately that high condition of dust lasted for some days there" and kept Phoenix from operating, Goldstein said.

The sequence of events that led to Phoenix shutting down was "exactly play-by-play what we anticipated doing," Goldstein said, though they came about three weeks earlier than expected. Mission engineers had originally hoped the lander would last through the end of November, acting as a weather station and using its camera to photograph the change of season.


Phoenix has effectively ended all science operations, though the team will keep listening for any signals from the spacecraft relayed through NASA's Mars orbiters for three more weeks, until the start of solar conjunction (when the sun comes between Earth and Mars).

The sun goes down about 5 minutes earlier every day at Phoenix's location. Come April 1, it will set completely beneath the horizon for three months. The sun won't be high enough in the sky to generate enough energy to power Phoenix again until at least mid-October 2009, Goldstein said. He thinks it's unlikely that the spacecraft will re-awaken even then, due to the damage done by extreme cold and carbon dioxide ice over the coming months.

Though no one on the team expects that Phoenix will once again live up to its name and rise again, there's always the "hope that the vehicle will surprise us again," Goldstein said.

© 2007 Space.com. All rights reserved. More from Space.com.

@Bastage: « #89 on: Yesterday at 07:11:58 PM »

Quote
The difference been the creationist and evolutionist is simple; belief in God Who creates.

No it isn't.
The difference is that an evolutionist takes a look at scientific evidence and makes a logical assumption.
A Creationist, on the other hand, gets his "evidence" from a Book of Fairytales and then completely defies logic and understanding.

You need to read the Qur'an where God the Almighty said He created mankind. Then He puts forward scientific statement about creation: "and We bring everything out of water." For a man with good thinking, and great knowledge there should be reflection about the fact that everything contain some amount of water.

No wonder you might have felt that you are related to fish; thats a poor man thinking. Low mentality. Unlike the creationist.

@M_nwankwo: « #90 on: Yesterday at 08:44:51 PM »

@Olabowale
If you agree with the three scientific points I raised above, then you have no more reason to dispute that the human body (not the spirit or soul) decended from an ancestor that are phylogenetically related to modern day apes. I have consistently stated that the process of evolution was and is an expression of the will of God in material universes. Thus evolution is not a process dictated by adaptation/selection alone as some of my fellow biologists may argue but a manifestation of the will of God. It is the laws of God that brought evolution into existence, it is the same laws of God that guides evolution, it is the same laws of God that create the enviroment for adaptation and selection of genes, it is the same laws of God that determine speciation , etc. Science have investigated this matter.

Is it possible that science could be wrong in its assumption that only evolution is at play, and not creation, when it comes to the physical composition of say man? You have gracefully admitted that science is immature in its present splendor to us any understanding of spirit/soul. I will therefore take the position that the knowledge of science, today points to immaturity, hence a good number of scientists cling to evolution.

Thank God that it is not all scientists in this camp of evolution concept. We must also recognize that God has more knowledge, and His knowledge is absolute and superior than humans. God said that He creates. I wonder how then that you argue about this statement of god about Himself, while you claim that you believe in His existence? You must either not believe that He exists, or you do not believe His, which is the only reason you believe in evolution, a concept that has not been proven with complete certainty by "mere humans!"

However science is unable to investigate the spirit and it is this spirit which is a breath or creation of God that is the missing link. Evolutionary process prepared the body which the spirit can enter during the process of incarnation. The radiation of God or for better understanding the energy from God which resulted in physical matter has cooled off to such an extent that it is not possible for these energy to crytalize into physical forms in an instant, they have to undergo development and part of this development is what scientists refer to as evolution.

You tend to limit the power of God to only a time, in the past. You seem to believe that God does not have a significant power, even today. This is not the God that I worship, as a muslim. God is always powerful and humans are limited in knowledge of God, and all that He creates. Scientists are still discovering things on this earth of ours. There will always, till the end of time things to learn, otherwise, knowledge would have been complete and nothing to learn, at all.

Incarnation? I will not comment on this.




[Quote]
I never said that Jesus and his Father are incapable of creating. I have only stated that in the material worlds, the energy of God that constitute matter have cooled off that this energy can become forms through development. Matter in its different forms is not a direct creation of God but were subsequently formed following development. The urge for development is an intinsic property of all the priomordial elements from which matter formed. Thus human body, animal bodies, planets, solar systems, galaxies and inded the entire universe formed as a result of union of these primordial elements over millions and billions of years. Thus the material universes and the creatures inhabiting them are after effects of the power of God. Sure the came from the radiation of God but albeit indirectly.


The sole purpose of existence is to recognise the will of God and live according to the will of God. Religion is however not synonymous with the will of God. God created us without a religion but by his words and we can only be saved by obedience to the words of God. We are in the creation of God to find supreme happiness and radiant joy. The language of God in creation is the will of God. If one wants to know his creator then he or she must understand the language of God and live accordingly.[/quote]What is the purpose of being saved, since if you remember there is no punishment, no hellfire? What are you going to be saved from?

Jesus, the son of God has already summed up the will of his Father when he declared "Love God with all your heart and love your neighbour as yourself". He or she who is able to live according to this supreme commandment will find his way to heaven, the kingdom of God. This commandment is also the irrefutable yardstick to access the right kind of faith in God. If we follow this commandment, we will never hurt our neigbours through words, actions, thoughts, motives etc. The earth will be an earhly replica of heaven where the will of God reigns. Stay blessed.

The will of God reigns on this earth right now. God has given every man the will to be goood or otherwise. To obey and worship Him, or otherwies. Is there a need for a awesome to have a son? Who is the wife of God? I know who the mother of Jesus was; Mary, both of them are humans. God declares that He is Unique in every way. He has no parents and He is not a parent of any.

@Huxley: « #88 on: Yesterday at 04:12:59 PM »

If you accept those three points as being true, what implication does that have for your understanding of life? Surely it must mean that at some point there were NO humans and that humans and the near descendants are the offsprings of close relatives to chimps.

Your argument is half true. There was a time that there was no human. Thats what creationist believes. Afterall, to be created in this case means that at a time before that, what is created was not in existence. Again, my understanding of life, since I am a creationist, I do accept that all things have a common elements from which each is created from. But they are created, essentially unique and independently from one another.

So even though all things are made of water and earth, that does not mean that each evolves from any other. So a greasely bear is not from black bear, or brown bear or polar bear!

So human is not from Chimp or dog! God craeted each in their uniqueness. Its like a line of different polymers. They are not derivitives from each other. They have different qualities, etc and their may be overlapping infinitesimal commonalities, but they are independent of each other, on the whole. God, the Creator shows His Unique Power here in the way He creates.

So your god created the human lineage from common relative of chimps and humans? What else can those three points imply?

No. You assumption is wrong. The three points imply not what you assume, but that they have common Creator. Thats the major point. A minor point is that the created things have a common material(s) from which they are uniquely made from; earth and water.

you didn't answer my questions. or maybe you did, but i missed it?

@M_nwankwo: When I read your assertion that Jesus is son of God, am always amazed by it. Please could you give a good intellectual argument how you arrived at this? I read above how you derided Olaadegbu that his argument is what he heard from his "local Church" which he is passing up as creation, instead of healing.

While I agree with you that there is a difference between creation anew, which is what I as a creationsit believe, even though all created things have a set of commn elements, from which they are created. These common element are mainly soil/earth and water, but each creatd thing have a different formular or composition agregates of each, hence it is no surprise that you will find commonality of elemental compositions between two opposite created things. For example you have persuaded us with your argument that;

1. That the human chromosome 2 came about as a result of telomeric fusion of two ape chromosomes and the presense of a vestigial centromere in human chromosome 2.
2. The presence of pseudo genes in humans whereas these genes are active and in the same location/orientation in the genome of apes and some other mammals like dogs.
3 Identical retroviral DNA sequences in the genome of human and chimps.

Since all of these three above and much more are true, can you then argue that man, Chimp, dog, etc are exactly alike? If you can not, then it may be better for you to look at their unique differences and realise that it is the differences that may point to creation instead of evolution.

One thing I will give you though, unlike the atheist or agnostic, is that you do believe in One God, even though your own god has a son, since you believe that Jesusis his son. My question to you then is this, if Jesus and his father, your god could not create anything, but things evolved anyhow, what is the purpose of either one of them? And do you see a reason for a religion, or obedience to a God and definitely, is there a day of Judgement in your future?

Why do any good, except as a humanist, since you do not see the value for a god, an obedience to this god through a religion and a day of Judgement? What things evolved from, the very original thing that evolution start with, who created it or how did it come to existence, if there is no GOd who created it, in the first place and gave it the evolutionary elemental changes to take place in its right time, if I am to go by your argument?

Finally, my simple observation of your argument against Olaadegbu, even though I am not a christian, and do not believe in a God with a son, rather a God who is uniquely independent and separate from what i call created, and Jesus happen to be a created in my own view, aren't your argument from a local church source, which is hat "Grail Message" is to me? And long time before Grail Message, just as before (Muhammad and Jesus and Moses, (as)), there were knowledge about God, and no knowledge about a son of god. Or can anyone bring out any from Adam or his wife or children?

@Cayon: Off topic question: Since your brother became a muslim, have you noticed any "personal improvement" in him? I mean how he behaves and interact with the whole family and people at large? He must be a better person, am sure. Showing a greater quality of human to human, and infact all creations relationship, kindness and a softer heart.

Do you find him a bettr brother now, or is he worse than before he became a muslim?

@Justcool: « #161 on: Today at 12:13:49 AM »

@Olabowale
This thread is not about comparing the Bible with the Koran. Why turn every thread into a religious war? The fact the Bible is not perfect does not make the Koran perfect! Please take the Koran out of this thread!
Start another thread about the perfection or the purity of the Koran and I will give you my take on the Koran. Just be sure you can handle the Truth, before you start the Tread!

This thread is about religion. And it is spelled Qur'an. Your hypocracy is well known, by your writing K instead of Q! There is no religious war from me. I am having a dialogue with Pilgrim. She is not saying that am at war with her. I know that I am not.

Please tell us where Qur'an is not perfect; I want verses and chapters. But Qur'an is in Pure Arabic. Unless you are a specialist in this language, then you will have a very weak argument to present. My understanding of Qur'an is not from the English or Yoruba interpretation of what the writer thinks in his knowledge means, wen translated in these languages. For example in Surah Fatiha, vere 4 reads in Arabic; "Maaliki yaa umi diin". Maalik means King, Master, Owner, etc.

You will see that an author in his language can only chose just one. yaa umi diin means the day of Judgement. So you can see that in the reading of this simple verse, in arabic, a reader will have the complete meaning in his mind.
He will know that Allah is not just the only King, but also the Only Master and Owner of this very day. Now tell me you see impefection in Qur'an, again?

If a Christian says there is imperfection in his/her Bible, I have to at least from the face of it agree with that statement, since i am not a christian.

If a muslim says that the Qur'an is perfect, I now challenge you to read through it, and give me one essence of imperfection. This is a challenge to you. Please dont take it as a religious war, because it is simply a challenge.

@Huxley: « #83 on: Today at 01:10:01 PM »

For his time Darwin was quite advance in the way he viewed the human "races", even more so that many of the theologians of his generation. He was strongly opposed to the slave trade and showed great respect when dealing with Africans. In fact, he writes fondly of an African taxidermist in Scotland that he had the pleasure of meeting. This article gives a thorough exposition of Darwin's position.

No one says that an atheist could not be humanist. This is what Darwin have exhibited, in the above, by his kindness, and concern especially about the "unprevileged people." Afterall, he sees himself, exactly as another human being. We also agree that he was not a theologian, otherwise, he would have believed in the existence of a Creating God, instead of his evolution hypothesis. I say hypothesis, because no non-creationst has proven it beyond any doubt that things claimed by creationist to have been created by God, came into existence through evolution from another completely different and distinct thing.

And theologians are not always kind people. The difference been the creationist and evolutionist is simple; belief in God Who creates.

I think compared to today, the standard of behaviour have advanced, but Darwin personally was well advanced for his time.

I agree, whatever his private beliefs, politics, etc were, none of these are determinants on the truth or otherwise of the theory of evolution by natural selection.

What makes natural selection possible? If it is nature, then how did nature come about? I mean nature that is relative to the survival of things, that came about in the natural selection of "evolutional ideas," versus how another thing perishes and unable to survive the activities imposed by the sudden and unnaural condition they are exposed?

Finally, if Darwin is well advanced for his time, could we then use the same argument to determine that there are still some ideas, that may occur in Theology, presently, that many, especially the atheists may not be able to understand because they are just "well advance" for this time we are living? There is no doubt that whatever knowledge we have now, however we think of it as the apex of advancement, it is only relative to this time and will not be the apex of knowledge of the well distance future.

In 2000 years to the future for example, the present day knowledge may be compared to what was elementary school knowledge of the 1950s.

I was told last night about Dr. Jeffry Lang's google/Youtube video about his leaving atheism for Islam. I think you need to watch it, under the video title; Math Professor Muslim. For me it is an interesting piece.

Forget theology: look at the Bible itself, in its purity, if you can find it. Then compare it with Qur'an, in Arabic which is readily available, around the world. Interestingly, over a million people alive today commit the Qur'an to memory. And many more a greater portion leading to almost 100%. then there is still more people, in degree of memorization. Even my mother who at her old age became muslim, must at least know by now how to recite Surah Fatiha, in Arabic. Plus i might say, other short surahs; Iklas, etc.

Thats what you need to examine. Not theology. The Children of israel, in their yashivas try to their Torah, whatever they think is original, including the talmuth, and others, are being committed to memory, in order to preserve them in originals. Do you have this in Hebrew, or Aramaic about the Bible?

@Pilgrim.1: You seem not to get it; is arabic Qur'an not the Qur'an you used for your Salah, etc? In Yorubaland, with all the beauty of that language, at least to me, have you ever heard an accepted recitation of Surah fatiha in Yoruba before?

let me help you; even in an event as ordinary as child naming event, has the yoruba reciters broken to "Ni Oruko Olorun, Alanu julo, alajipele eson"; Bismillahi Rahmanir Rahim? That right there will show you that when you speak about the Qur'an, it is in Arabic alone. That is accepted worldwide, and right from the time of the Prophet himself (AS).

Now use the same datum for the Bible; give me a Bible in the original text and language from the time of Jesus, or any early generations. Say from the time that the Lord of Jesus lifted him up to Himself; alive in body and soul?

The first thing I would like to ask is this: is your ‘Christian’ faith a Biblical one or not?

If Christian faith is soly Biblical, then Trinity is dead. Interestingly, you aluded to "errors" in many versions. Would therefore the faith of any person based on that "Bible" not be erronous? There is no way you can have a purity, without errors on an idea that its premise is precipitated on "Error!" At best the idea will have just the same amount of deficiency in the same degree as the amount of errors in what the idea is formatted upon.

And by the way, I am not bashing the Bible or Christianity. I am just reading your piece and responding to it, as it is appropriate. I know you will acuse me in a quick New York minute.

@Pilgrim:

I don't worship the scriptures; also, I've said clearly that even before my conversion, I was well aware of the translation errors in many versions. BUT, errors in translation is not the same thing as asking that certain portions of Scripture be removed altogether! In my replies, I had pointed that same thing out and two other issues: (a) the implication of his summations; and (b) what exactly are the books he regards as authentic in the Bible. Rather than point us to these, it was a glib response that was offered.

Errors in translation and asking that portions of scripture be not present in the Bible are not the same things. These two distinctions should not be difficult to see, no?

Before one can admit that something is erronous, one must have in hand what is correct, in order to make such a bold claim. How did you arrive at the "translation errors in many versions?" Is there an original without any error?

I wonder how a person can see very clearly, by your own admission above, that there are "errors" in many translations, yet still find the strength to enter into what is not "without error," head first, unless you can show us, a pure and error free translation or original?

Did you go into this new religion because of the promise that a god will carry your burden from you, or something relating to this effect, since your former religion, Islam preaches "individual responsibility of deeds?"

If you were aware of these errors before conversion, I wonder how long your first introduction to the Bible, before you left Islam? A week, a month, a year, while comparing the two, reading them for understanding and differences in their position on any subject matter? Please entighten us, if not at least me.

Offtopic; I know. I just thought this might help us to reflect upon the passion of the people who claim to believe in God. Every group is defending what it holds dear. Even the docile monks can raise cane, sometimes.


Monks brawl at Christian holy site in Jerusalem
Buzz Up Send
Email IM Share

Digg Facebook Newsvine del.icio.us Reddit StumbleUpon Technorati Yahoo! Bookmarks Print By MATTI FRIEDMAN, Associated Press Writer Matti Friedman, Associated Press Writer – 1 hr 57 mins ago AP – Israeli police scuffle with an Armenian monk next to the site traditionally believed to be the tomb of …

Slideshow: Rival monks brawl at the Church of the Holy Sepulcher JERUSALEM – Israeli police rushed into one of Christianity's holiest churches Sunday and arrested two clergyman after an argument between monks erupted into a brawl next to the site of Jesus' tomb.

The clash between Armenian and Greek Orthodox monks broke out in the Church of the Holy Sepulcher, revered as the site of Jesus' crucifixion, burial and resurrection.

The brawling began during a procession of Armenian clergymen commemorating the 4th-century discovery of the cross believed to have been used to crucify Jesus.

The Greeks objected to the march without one of their monks present, fearing that otherwise, the procession would subvert their own claim to the Edicule — the ancient structure built on what is believed to be the tomb of Jesus — and give the Armenians a claim to the site.

The Armenians refused, and when they tried to march the Greek Orthodox monks blocked their way, sparking the brawl.

Police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld said police were forced to intervene after fighting was reported. They arrested two monks, one from each side, he said.

A bearded Armenian monk in a red-and-pink robe and a black-clad Greek Orthodox monk with a bloody gash on his forehead were both taken away in handcuffs after scuffling with dozens of riot police.

Six Christian sects divide control of the ancient church. They regularly fight over turf and influence, and Israeli police are occasionally forced to intervene.

"We were keeping resistance so that the procession could not pass through , and establish a right that they don't have," said a young Greek Orthodox monk with a cut next to his left eye.

The monk, who gave his name as Serafim, said he sustained the wound when an Armenian punched him from behind and broke his glasses.

Father Pakrat of the Armenian Patriarchate said the Greek demand was "against the status quo arrangement and against the internal arrangement of the Holy Sepulcher." He said the Greeks attacked first.

Archbishop Aristarchos, the chief secretary of the Greek Orthodox patriarchate, denied his monks initiated the violence.

After the brawl, the church was crowded with Israeli riot police holding assault rifles, standing beside Golgotha, where Jesus is believed to have been crucified, and the long smooth stone marking the place where tradition holds his body was laid out.

The feud is only one of a bewildering array of rivalries among churchmen in the Holy Sepulcher.

The Israeli government has long wanted to build a fire exit in the church, which regularly fills with thousands of pilgrims and has only one main door, but the sects cannot agree where the exit will be built.

A ladder placed on a ledge over the entrance sometime in the 19th century has remained there ever since because of a dispute over who has the authority to take it down.

More recently, a spat between Ethiopian and Coptic Christians is delaying badly needed renovations to a rooftop monastery that engineers say could collapse.

And I just finished my Isha prayer. Your understanding can take it. No worries. lol. Bi asha awon badan; Oo bami nbe. You are feisty tonite. the big time player of game of ignorance is none other than lady pilgrim.1 herself.

lol; another broken record gimmick.

@Pilgrrim.1: « #20 on: Today at 01:21:57 AM »  

Quote from: olabowale on Today at 01:17:03 AM
@Pilgrim.1: « #11 on: November 07, 2008, 02:16 PM »
The questions were not just about corruptions of man on the religion(s) what is entrusted to him from God. Kunle asked about the descendants of people who he assumed worshipped the One God before Abraham, and them later worshipped by the Israelites. And if such religion(s) that were pure but after the corruptions still managed to remain, even up to now, or at least to the advent of Christianity?

Interesting that you observe that Christianity may have been corrupted. Please tell us if there is a sect of Christianity that survives all the tormoil of man's influences, and still pure, as "Christ" would have left a religion and hoped that people after him would have worshipped?

Could there be from God a more than one pure religion, that He would accept worship from man, at the same time? Could you assume that Judaism is still pure, if it was what Moses brought from God, while at the same time Christianity is pure if it is what Jesus brought from God?

All your effort is to discredit Christianity. This attitude of hypocrisy was why I examined Islam and dumped it. The questions Kunle asked have been answered and he did not disagree thereto.

Everyone can see your "good answer (lol)" to my statement above. I do not have to discredit Christianity. And hypocrisy is not coming from me. Everyone who know me will tell you where I stand. I am sure when you find a religion that promises you that there is no judgement day, because none can promise you that you will not die, you will "examine Christianity, too, and dump it" If one observes you enough, the traces of not wanting to be spiritually resposible is why you dump Islam for christianity, since you "think" that Jesus will bear your day of Judgement burden.

Quote from: olabowale on Today at 01:17:03 AM
One should wonder if El is not part of Eloi that sounds like what came out in the crying out on the cross? But interestingly, one should note that Jehovah and Yahweh, the names that Jews and Christians want people to accept as the Lord my God's name, do not be derived from the names of persons listed above.

My quick comment is this: Emmanu el seems to have the same underpinning as the other names. Yet, none of them is construed as god incarnate. Praise of God as a name is stronger than God is with us.

Muhammad did not know the God worshipped by the Jews - that is why the Muslim hate continues till this very day.

Yet Muhammad (AS) proposed the worship of a singular God, who is complete in every respect and not sharing His Majesty with any. Is Allah in Arabic not equal in meaning to Olodumare of Yoruba "The Only God", while it is equal and sounds like Eloi, instead of Yahweh or Jehovah? Unless you are a great linguist in Arabic language, then you will see that you have no argument.

Quote from: olabowale on Today at 01:17:03 AM
Blind leap of fate. Has we see, there was nothing leading anyone to a sudden change of Lord my God becoming lord Jesus Christ! You see a corruptive game in play, without any doubt. The game is stale.


There are over 72 sects in islam which have also corrupted Islam. Are you the only ignorant Muslim oblivious of that fact?

I never denied the 72 sects. But you do remember the 73rd sect as the sect that will never enter hell? Or dont you? But the irony of all of this is that you will note that in that very hadith, the whole 71 sects of Jewish (yahuud), and, the 72 sects of Christianity (nasara) will enter hell, without any having the same mercy as the 73rd sect from Islam, on the day of judgement.

Infact, they will not even in the long run have the same mercy from Lord my God as the 72 sects of muslims in hell, who will be forgiven, in as long as they were not Munafiiq. And we know that the Mushrikun were already counted among the inmates of hell. I don't have to repeat them since we are talking about Alul Kitab. And being people of the book does not mean people of intelligence. If that was the case, Judaism would have been the only religion and Christianity would never have been a relation that ever existed. lol.

Aburo, Oo tii sun ni dayi. O daaro. lol.

@Pilgrim.1: « #17 on: November 07, 2008, 10:33 PM »  

Quote from: olabowale on November 07, 2008, 09:19 PM
My darling Pilgrim.1: KunleOshob's question above, should be easy for you to answer. Please answer it and don't beg the question. He wants a direct answer from you. Your docking this question does not fit the quality of a religious pundit, like yourself.

If Mr Kunle has not seen my answers, he clearly would have said I didn't answer to his questions on the Bible and the history just as he had asked. I have answered those questions:

        https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-190428.0.html#msg3052436

He raised the issue of what books are included in the Bible and referred to the "other thread" - I have also been to that thread.

If you are the only ignorant muslim on the forum, others have seen it so many times it is hardly necessary to prove the fact.

lol. At least am not the smart person, who will not answer a direct question. I also see that you are too sensitive. I am hoping you will just answer questions, instead of telling us stories. I don't have stomach for any.

@Pilgrim.1: « #11 on: November 07, 2008, 02:16 PM »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: KunleOshob on November 07, 2008, 12:42 PM
@pilgrim.1
I checked out you references and they check out, but the question still remains who are the descendants of these people today? What religion are they practising? I asked this questions cuase i read of other ancient religions in the mesopotanian area that date back 6000 years( aroud the time of genesis) that have certain similarites with the Judaism and christian faith. My question is could it have been the same religion that was later corrupted into other religions? After all even the children of israel attempted to also corrupt their faith by worshipping idols while Moses was on mount sinai. This is how religion get corrupted.

@KunleOshob,

Perhaps the query was not actually to find out if indeed there were people besides the Jews who worshipped the same God as did Abraham. I long suspected that was where you were going, but did not want to anticpate you. All the same, let me point out something to you:

Whatever God has committed to man, he has always corrupted - it doesn't matter whether it was Judaism, Christianity or any other faith. By "any other faith", I presuppose the understanding and revelation that people had back then before the emergence of Judaism and then Christianity. But although this is troubling to a lot of Christians, I don't have any problem with that fact.

The questions were not just about corruptions of man on the religion(s) what is entrusted to him from God. Kunle asked about the descendants of people who he assumed worshipped the One God before Abraham, and them later worshipped by the Israelites. And if such religion(s) that were pure but after the corruptions still managed to remain, even up to now, or at least to the advent of Christianity?

Interesting that you observe that Christianity may have been corrupted. Please tell us if there is a sect of Christianity that survives all the tormoil of man's influences, and still pure, as "Christ" would have left a religion and hoped that people after him would have worshipped?

Could there be from God a more than one pure religion, that He would accept worship from man, at the same time? Could you assume that Judaism is still pure, if it was what Moses brought from God, while at the same time Christianity is pure if it is what Jesus brought from God?

Why and How?

Because in the first place we have noted that there are people knew and worshipped the same God as did Abraham. But let's go back long before Abraham - to Genesis 4:26 - "then began men to call upon the name of the LORD."

Now, hang on a minute or two. If men were calling upon the name of the LORD as far back as such an early period, what then are we to make of this? Granted, some Bible scholars understand the verse to read rather as "men began to call themselves by the name of the LORD" - that is, they gave names to their generations as derived from the LORD. Examples?

One possible understanding of this is the idea that certain people at that time appended the name of God to their own names, such as -

■ Mahal'ale-el (praise of God) - Gen. 5:15

■ Methu'sael (man of God) - Gen. 4:18

■ Mehu'jael (smitten by God) - Gen. 4:18

'El' is the simple derivative of the word or appellation "God", and it was not strange to find people naming their kinfolks by appending 'EL' ('God') to their names. This culture was not just for a season - because it continued even after the Flood. That is why we find Daniel was named "Belteshazzar, according to the name of my god" (Dan. 4:8.)

One should wonder if El is not part of Eloi that sounds like what came out in the crying out on the cross? But interestingly, one should note that Jehovah and Yahweh, the names that Jews and Christians want people to accept as the Lord my God's name, do not be derived from the names of persons listed above.

My quick comment is this: Emmanu el seems to have the same underpinning as the other names. Yet, none of them is construed as god incarnate. Praise of God as a name is stronger than God is with us.

However, before Abraham, we now several people knew the LORD God - only, as you noted, they corrupted the worship of that God. It is not different even today - whatever has been committed to man's trust in the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, man has corrupted. But it doesn't mean that man cannot know Christ in spite of all the corruption. We can know and enjoy fellowship with Him: for that is why God gave us the Scriptures.

Blind leap of fate. Has we see, there was nothing leading anyone to a sudden change of Lord my God becoming lord Jesus Christ! You see a corruptive game in play, without any doubt. The game is stale.

@Pilgrim.1: « #8 on: November 07, 2008, 10:28 AM »

Hi Kunle,

Actually, I believe that there are references in the Bible that some other people apart from the Israelites were worshipping the same God as Abraham did. Off my head, let me name just a few (I'll double-check later and perhaps add some more, correct me where I may be wrong):

■ Melchizedek - Genesis 14:18-20

There is no doubt that Melchizedek's pronouncements of "the most high God" points
to the same affiliation that would make Abraham recognize that he worshipped the
same God.

And during the time of Abraham and Melchizedek, there could never have been a people known as Israelites. Israelites, a name known for the collective children of Jacob (a man renamed Israel because of his tussel with an angel of God), must have come much later. Considereing that the generation of Prophet Joseph, and his siblings will be the first people to actually be accurately named. If they are great grandchildren of Abraham, then Abraham could never be called an Israelite!

■ Jethro - Moses' father-in-law and priest of Midian (Exo. 18:1)

The Biblical narratives point me to the fact that, though he was not an Israelite or
one of the priests of Israel, he yet worshipped the same God as they did. How?
Well, first he recognized God's hand in their history and rejoiced in it (Exo. 18:9);
then also he called God by the same covenant name that was familiar to them in
their redemptive history (Exo. 18:10-11); we see him also offering burnt offerings
to the same God, and he had fellowship with the elders of Israel (verse 12).

Belief in One God was not limited to these people. Prior to the birth of Isaac, in the journey of Abraham and sarah to Egypt, one will see from the interraction of the Phraoh at that time, that he believed in One God. His simple request to Abraham to supplicate to his Lord and then giving him Hagar in marriage are both proofs.

I am sure that the Bible accused Abraham, a man declared as His Friend of adultery. Even the Pharaoh of the period of famine, when Joseph was the treasurer believed in One God.

■ Balaam - a prophet who knew the LORD, Numbers 22-24

It would seem clear that Balaam knew and communed with the same God that was
know to the Jews. The only problem was that he abused his gift - the gift of prophecy
and was consequently punished for it. However, several times before that, he had
clearly pronounced that he would consult with the LORD (Num. 22:8 -
"as the Lord shall speak unto me"; and when he would initially not succumb to their
requests, he declared: "I cannot go beyond the word of the LORD my God,
to do less or more."

A person who says he cannot go beyond the word of Lord my God, to do less or more, if true to his word, should not abuse the gift from God on him. There is a problem here, if one simply observe the fact that the two ideas are incongruent!

@Huxley: I wanted to post the below for your enjoyment. I guess there are still a load of living things, materials yet undiscovered. Some of those things that are already extinct, may never have been known, undiscovered by man. I am very cetain that there will be things alive now, yet undiscovered and may end up being extinct continue to exist, and never come to discovery.

Top 10 new species
Only the coolest, weirdest — and deadliest — made the list
5/11


ASU / IISE

7. Xerocomus silwoodensis


This new mushroom species was discovered on Silwood Campus, a campus of Imperial College, London, although it is also found elsewhere (two additional sites in England and one each in Spain and Italy). The discovery of a new species in one of the most intensely studied floras in the world, and on the campus of a leading education center for biologists, illustrates how poorly species are known.

@Kermamod: « #41 on: Yesterday at 05:18:45 PM »

Nothing wrong with being alagidi. Ekiti ni mi after all.

Oraa. Oya oo. I have second cousins who are half Ekitis. (Iyin Ekiti, is where their mother came from).

and you wont be hearing about a conversion to Islam on my side any time soon, Alhaji

And this one we are having about the late young girl (ra), is not about Islam?

My question still remains, why should she be forgiven? what was her sin/offense?

A person does not have to have committed any sin to be seeking forgiven of Allah. The very sign of reverence to Allah includes humility, humbleness, and the quality of non-arrogance in seeking forgivenss when there is no offense committed yet. When a person does not commit a sin that he/she has planned to commit afore hand, that a person was forgiven by the fact that Allah protects the person from the sin. Thats forgiveness of offense which was not committed.

Muhammad (AS) used to seek forgiveness and performed long Salah and Ibadat (worship). His wife, Aisha (RA) commented why he prayed so much, when Allah has committed to him that all his sins, even those in the future (meaning they were not even committed yet), are forgiven. Muhammad (AS), responded, in humility to the honoring of his Lord, in a humble voice to his wife " shouldn't I be a grateful servant to my forgiven Lord?"

Muslims are encouraged to fast on the day of Hajj (Arafat). The reward of this fast is espediatiation of 2 years of sins; one of the past year, and the other is the year ahead. Kemamod; few years ago, I read a book titled; Islam their way. The book contained speeches of people who reverted to Islam, from other religion. One of them said that if he knew a muslim before he reverted, he might not have taking Islam. What he meant was that if he had looked at the behaviors of many muslims, who are "behaving Badly," he would never have entered the rank of Muslim.

However this man recognized that Islam is different from Muslims. This is the way I feel about Islam, separately from Muslim. If I did not feel this way, and if I did not know the difference from Islam and muslims, i would have never have spent all my life in it. I would not have invited my mother to become one at 80+ years. And then my young wife. Karmamod; awee, the door is open for you, too.

My darling Pilgrim.1: KunleOshob's question above, should be easy for you to answer. Please answer it and don't beg the question. He wants a direct answer from you. Your docking this question does not fit the quality of a religious pundit, like yourself.

@Karmamod: « #32 on: Yesterday at 11:14:36 PM »

Quote
May Allah the Almighty forgive her and make her from th people of Paradise.

forgive her for what

Whats wrong in my prayer for her? Aburo. Rora. I will make the same prayer for you now. Even though, in my book you are a disbeliever. But I wish you well, at the same time. I would love to hear that you revert to Islam. Alagidi ni e.

Muhsin: a person who is not married at the time of committing illegal sex, can not be stoned to death. I hope you know that from Qur'an and Sunnah. It is regardless of what the marital status was before the act. But it singly depends on what the status is when the illicit sexual act was committed.

The minimum witness you will need, and each as a single group must actually see the private organs connecting together is 4. You can see that this is a very serious matter, as the 4 "undoubting" witnesses will have to at their 4th swearing, each call the curse of Allah on his/her person, if he/she was not telling the truth.

Finally, if the accused denied the accusation by the fourth swearing call the curse of Allah on his/her person, then the accused will hve to let go, and not be punished. The community does not have the right to punish such a person, if thy are actually practicing Islam in the pattern of the Prophet (AS).

Interestingly, the witnessing of the four individaul witnesses, will not be acceptable, in the future, in anything because their accusation did not hold in the first place. You will see why people should not be sure of what they see, even if they were sure that they see it, since it is a matter of life and death of thers, and possibility of dishonoring oneself!

Allah loves forgiveness and preservation of lives. This is why we should not be quick to insist on taking lives. You must have heard of the prophet's (AS) efforts in many ways of trying to preserve the lives of the womann who came that she wanted the judgement against adultery. Even before the pregnancy was showing. But the prophe (AS) hoped that she would have changed her own mind, in a ll the leeways that she was given, going back and forthm as she returned many times to the prophet. Finally she was punished after her child was independent of her particular presence.

You will also remember about the man who in dialogue with the prophet (AS), was assumed by way of excuses to spare his live to have not really had "private part conjuction with the woman." Finally, when he wa being punished, he was reported by the Sahaba (RA) to the prophet that he said he did not commit adultery, because of the pain of the stoning. The prophet (AS) told them that they should have stopped and left him for the judgement of Allah in the day of judgement.

In the above, what I find is that a presidence was set by the prophet (AS), that even during the punishment phase, if a person declares innocence, the punishment in "stoning" should stop. Unlike the foolishness of what some communities are doing today, the prophet did not wrap the persons alive, first and partially bury them in the grave, o that they can not escape.

They were giving the full capacity, to "un and cry out!" When that little girl in Somalia said she was not going and did not want to die, she should have been left alone! She should have been allowed to return to he family and leave her case for her Creator!

Finally, not every woman is Aisha binta Abi Bakr, zaujati Rasul! (She was seen in two dreams as a gift to the Prophet). I know that there is no established age of reaching puberty. Everyone is different. At 13 that girl may not have been matured. She might not have been married. And if she said she swore she did not commit adultery, even if her status was married woman, she should have been left alone, hen she said dont kill me!

Islam is not a blind religion. I know. My bloodline, in many generations are muslim. mercy in islam is cherished more than punishment. Those who hope for the mercy of Allah should also show mercy on young, the poor, the noninfluencial, etc.

I wonder what Nigerian Muslims have done with the Muslim elites who are reported to be practicing Komulut, or stealing, defrauding, and evils that affect the masses?

So Pilgrim.1 knew she was that "leopard!" And she couldn't hide a lick of it. Pilgrim ooo. I hope you are enjoying Birmingham, because am sure enjoying NYC! Sometimes at your expenses. But am not glouting. Omo mi sha nie. The reason I respond to you though is my defense of Islam while you try hard to malign it: No place in Qur'an is Christianity honored as "intelligent People" as you wanted to lead us believe yesterday!