₦airaland Forum

@asamuel: Who invaded Iraq? Muslims? Who are the Iraqis, for the most part, nonmuslims? You are sincere, or just talking because you want to be involved in conversation?

Did you ever heard of George Bush talking about Crusade? With him, it is not political, but religious. You should google and watch the video of "The Christian missionary atrocites." You do have conscience, I believe, if you are a human being. I may also be mistaken here.

@asamuel: Allah is the Lord God that Jesus declared to his audience as being their and his own Lord God. Now as per your disingenously asking about your offense, for starter doesn't the Bible say you can not serve God and Maamor? So when you serve God and then Jesus, as you will not deny that you pray through Jesus as intercessor, you have made Jesus as your maamor, retuctantly.

You can not serve God and Jesus and of course Holy Ghost. See your offense, now.

@asamuel: You tend to speak as the Oloolu supporters will speak. In the decades passed, the muslim cleric/daa'i known as Ajagbe mo keferi, unmasked the Oloolu masquerade of Ibadan. The lukewarm muslims in Ibadan, the natives I mean cried out against it. They forgot that they were Muslims. And Islam is always more than native heritage. They forgot that they will not be buried and judged as Ibadan people, but as muslims.

Shame on them, then. But this was over 30 years ago. I hope they have asked for forgiveness from their Lord God Allah the Almighty. I hope that the Ibadan people have become better muslims ad not the wishy washy brand of Islam that we see majority practice in Nigeria.

I am from Ijebu Ode and my mother is from Owo. I would if given the opportunity destroy the Agemo evilness that the Ijebu Ode call cultural identity. (Davidylan, you heard me!). Agemo can do nothing, so does any masquerade, anywhere.
Afterall, Jesus your lord and savior said by himself he can't do anything. He has to get power to do from my Lord God who is also his Lord God.

Come to think of it, Jesus and I depend on the same Lord God!

@Davidylan:

Wow . . . the crucifiction was a rite? they thrust a spear in His side such that water and blood gushed out,

From big deep wounds, do "Water" gushes out? Ever? Is this one expression not indicative of the many 'fabus' we find between the covers of the Bibles. You are a scientist, what gushes out of open wound could be call water separate from the blood that is usually the product that comes out? As I read the water and blood gushing out, I envisage a water running out in the same way it shoots out when fire hydrant is turned open. Do you feel the same vibe on this or whats your take on it? Please explain.

We pray in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, is prayer a rite?

When you make this prayer in the name of your lord Jesus Christ, who are you making the prayer to, Dave?Jesus or someone else? Who exactly, by name and not by title? Jesus is a name and Christ is a title. I want the name first of who you are praying to when you make that prayer in the name of your lord Jesus christ. If you like you can provide title and description after giving me a name.

2. Its not a prescription- there is a baptism of water (that of John) and a baptism of the Holy Spirit (fire).

David, you seem to be inconsistent, in your descriptions of the two Baptisms. When you spoke about that of the water, you provided the entity who performed the baptism. But when you spoke about that of the spirit, you did not speak about the person who performed this one. You just wrote fire. Why? What role did fire play in the Baptism of the holy spirit? Who perforemed it and what form of fire are you talking about here? Please provide full details.

Interestingly, I would like to know which of the two, water and holy spirit baptism, is greater? If a person receives one instead of the other, what correlation does it have to Salvation in relationship to the person who received the other? Is the performer of either of the baptism greater than the one whom he performed it on? Let me give you a better understanding of my question: if a pastor performs a water baptism on a church member, is the pastor greater than the church member? If another pastor performs a holy spirit baptism on another church member, is that pastor greater than the church member who just got the holy spirit baptism? Which of the two pastors is greater and which of the two people who got baptized is greater?

@asamuel: By Allah who is truly Akbar, your experience simply show us that while you were muslim, you knew nothing about Islam. If you did, you would have known that illicit sex is completely forbidden. You must have been surrounded by bad muslims that no one didn't tell you anything about the evil of it. Allah says in His book, the AlQur'an karim that no one should come close to illicit sex.

If you think that Christianity is the only way to make people have good morals, then you are still naive about the real world. Unfortunately, all over the world, the larger percentage of Christians thinks that sex is always good, regardless of when it is even illicit. They indulge in it even with the cross dangling from their neck while on their chests.

Pre HIV era of New York City, you have what was known as bath houses, where everything goes. This is why most people infected and the notables who died from the AIDS complexes were Christians, rather than muslims. I am not saying that no muslims died of AIDS now.

For good illustrations, Hakeem Olajuwon, played in the US NBA professional basketball league. There is a steady stream of women running after the NBA players. These women are called groupees. Yet, Olajuwon, a Yoruba man I must mention was an exceptional among the men. Why, he did not participate in the sexual debauchery of orgies without end. The late Will Chamberlain boasted of bedding up to 10, 000 women and we see what free sex have done to Magic Johnson. My boy Okafor, is young in charlotte's raptors, he can not say that he is not participating in the almost free sex that is part of the frings of NBA!

Why was Olajuwon able to mentain his almost prestine image? It was simply because he was a muslim. So asamuel, to be ascribing your new found sexual morality to Christianity is without sound merit.

@asamuel: Jihad is struggle against all types of evils. That include the one that may be in your heart. Also against jinn and man and yourself. It may also involve the physical fight or spiritual and moral fights.

Now, go. Take the advice of Babs787. When you have tried your hand at educating yourself, then come back and ask good and thought provoking questions. We will, InshaAllah be here to educate you as muslims. You did not know it when you were a muslim. Now you wanna know it when you are a christian.

I know about crusade. I hope you will be strong enough to talk about it as we go along.

@asamuel: Please explain Mark 12 verse 29 to us. When i read it, I got the feeling straigh away that Jesus was saying to his listeners, that he has the same Lord who is One God as them, whom he also worships. And that Lord which is God is One. This destroys Trinity. Or at least points to the fact that Jesus is not part of the Trinity.

When you are through with it, I will send another verse to you, for explanations. I need understanding from you about your Bible Verses. They are straight forward reading and that is why i find it difficult to accept that Jesus said that he is god of any form.

Come on man. You have a lot to answer to me about. I need a lot of education about your Bible. You seem to be the man to do it.

@~Lady~:

Just because you don't believe does not make it untrue. Atheist don't believe in God does that make him untrue?

You are also suggesting that SeanT12 should just believe, whereas she want explanation that the mind can grasp. Please explain Trinity, which is not in the Bible. And you will see how it will defiles all other Biblical verses that will work against it. Please try to do it. I want you to keep Mark 12 Verse 29, in mind, which actually rails against trinity. At least Mark 12 verse 29, will give us the inkling that Jesus is not one of the Gods of the Christians. Considering that Jesus was saying that he, included with his audience have the same Lord who is One God!

I am standing downtown in tallahassee in florida and I tell you that I saw a goat on the side walk posted next to a red car, does that mean that a car was not in front of the red car?

It is not conclusive that there was a car in front of the red car. If there was, you would have told me that it was, since you mentioned the red car, while talking about the goat. Goat and car are not likely to relate together in downtown tallahassee. But another car is in direct relationship to the red car. If it were there to give us a full and robust picture of the unusual scene, you would have mentioned it. At best if i were to give you the benefit of the doubt, outright, is that there are many cars or one car in addition to the red car. That is because were are familiar with the situation of car traffic in downtowns of cities like tallahassee! A goat? Neehh!

Same thing with God! It will be unusual for any thing that is not God to be usurping the Position of God. And unless those who are less are given the authority, they truly don't have any.

But then, looking at the conditions of the christian godheads: it is funny that two are together, but the third is not mentioned to be present!

This is not the belief of Christians but you own belief. They are not separate.

If the christians don't share this belief, then they are saying something that they do not believe in the first place. That is not good. How can three not be separate and different from one? Please help me with accounting or actuary behind it.

This is your understanding of the issue, however it is the wrong understanding of the issue. Just because you believe it to be this does not mean it is this. Get it?
You believe that Jesus is not God, that doesn't make it true that he is not God. You give examples based on how it is you see it, but how yous ee it is actually wrong. You give examples on the wrong belief. Try giving examples on the right belief.

I get it. lol. Explain it to us babe. I wanna see how you will use verses from Jesus directly to make your case, in the face of overwhelming evidence, of verses from the Bible itself! Try me.

@SeanT21:

but then again, i read a part in the bible that says that Jesus sits at the right hand of God. This got me to believing that the trinity do exist.

My Pastor says the trinity do exist.

can i get some explaination about this?

My dear sis, if your pastor can show it to you, then he is lying to you. And please don't believe the gabbly gook that Backslider is giving you. he just tell you to believe. He is actually telling you to believe in blindness. There is no human reasoning to it. And there is not spiritual reasoning to it, too.

Just imagine the verse you quoted: there are only two entities sitting. One always have the position. The other just came to sit on the right hand of Him. What happens to the third? If you don't have the third, thn, there is no trinity!

Interestingly, how is it possible that the Three are One, when each is a full and separate entity? Let me make it interesting for you. If in a corporation, you have three co-chairpersons, because they own the company equally. Now when the three of them are acting, we can't say that its one person or one owner that is acting. What you have is that no one of the three has a higher position because of their co-ownership.

However, if we have a situation where one of them overrides the other two, then, the true ownership dynamics is not co-ownership. But the true ownershi belongs to the one whose authority overrides any other at all times. In the case therefore, of God and jesus, the One that is Owner of Authority is God. Jesus does not have any authority before god, except as a servant/messenger/prphet/slave and mere mortal. There is no Trinity, therefore.

@Davidylan, ~Lady~, etc:

So we turn to the bible,

"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and I will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."

If the Christian claims that Jesus is God and not a mere prophet, this verse found in the bible, can never apply to him, or can it? It has to apply only to mere prophet, and no more than a mere prophet. Reasons;

God promised to raise them up a prophet and not another god on earth, or a son of god, etc along with just being a prophet! God also said that He will put His words in his mouth, so that he shall speak unto them his listeners all that He God shall command him, only. And nothing more than that. Here we should be very attentive to who will be commanded here. Of course, God will and can not command Himself, in a subordinated position. God is never lower than God. So the one commanded should be not God, but a mere man, a true subordinate. G

God can not put His word as in position of command to show inferiority of Himself. He has to put His word in the mouth of an inferior being/entity, a slave and a servant. A mere messenger that must never refuse order. And he can not say what ever was not commanded him. Never! He has to say exactly, word for word, exactly what was put in his mouth to speak and commanded to regurgitate.

You see I did not touch the brethren and onto like thee parts of the verse. I do not want you guys to escape this choke hold in my clampping down on your ability to play Hoodini!

Now tell us, if Jesus was a mere prophet? Tell us if Jesus as god could be commanded by anyone, especially his equal or himself, as you were trying to insinuate by John 5 Verse 18, that he is equal to God? Tell us if Jesus did speak only what he was commanded and nothing else, especially when no one can command God? And of course that Jesus was always god, according to you. The saying that once saved always remain saved will apply as well on his claimed godship. He could not be god and then not be god at sometimes. It just does not make any logical sense. It goes to that very fact that Babs787 was saying about him exhibiting inferior to God, but 100% human prophet and ordinary man qualities. Please explain how your god Jesus will fit being commanded and be controlled by the God that is universally understood, in the verse of the Bible, above.

@Davidylan: You are correct. I meant to write father. But of course, since we were talking about God, and father is almost unimportant in this argument, you can see how I miswrote, therefore ending up in its place with God.

But since I mentioned babs787 writing, you should have been smart enough that the old man intended to write father, and not God. But your seizing up on this chance of my writing God, instead of father is like a windfall for you. David, it still will not change my question; Are you not warned by the Bible not to call anyone father on earth, since you claim that your Father is in heaven? And the last line on my pice actually pointed to father, David. This shows that you are not honest when you dialogue. It should not be all wars and any means necessary. lol.

And David go search the internet, if you are still unable to see a sunset by the water. You will see that the surface of the water is not clear any longer because of the dying light being not enough to penetrate the liquid object. Water normally distort the penetration of light anyway, so there is no wonder that the water looks murky/muddy at sunset.

@Davidylan: Stop these nonsenses. You call God your Father, though without any cogent proof. God called Ibrahim His friend. But we know that it is One God that is being spoken about.

So you see, father to some, Friend to few, but definitely Lord God to all. Whats the big deal that you can see beyond this father label that you can't prove. Listen, is it not in your Bible, as Babs787 pointed out that you must not call anyone on earth God? Did you follow the injuction? No, you didn't. So how am I going to believe what you say therefore, even when you support it with Biblical verses?

I did not see a sincere commitment from you based on the fact that you do call somebody on earth Father.

“a great LovePeddler”

John Hagee fits the profile of Great LovePeddler, more that the Catholic Church. These Televangelists should be ashamed of themselves.

@Ndipe:

For those who deny the Trinity, read this Inspirational Verse

Isaiah 48:16

16Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

Read the link below for the explanation.

For you who denies that God Almighty is One and therefore claims trinity, by your denial, read John 5 verse 18 with a follow up with Mark 12 verse 29. And if you can see the differences between them and what you have quoted, you need to know in your heart that some verses are lying, and there is no way around the blatant corruptions.

When two friends are taking opposite sides on an issue, definitely, one must be wrong. Now Ndipe, group of Biblical verses is wrong? That is your problem. Now let me tell you, since John 5 Verse 18 tells us that the Jews considered Jesus' statement as blasphemous, it tells us that they never have heard anyone saying he is son of God before, hence claiming to be equal to God. This then opposes any explanation of trying to fit Trinity into the Old Testament. It just doesn't work.

Ndipe, am waiting to see you wearing jilbab. Igbo people are now turning to Islam. You will not be first, my man.

@Davidylan: Tell me in your writing before bab's response to you above, why are the jews trying to kill him; because they belived he was God and therefore telling the truth, or because they deemed himas liar in his blasphemous speech, hence they were intending to rid their society of a liar?
Again did they see him as a truth teller or liar by this very claim of being "equal to God?" I do not think that his good deeds on sabbath is enough to make the jews wanna kill him. But his statement which they construed as saying that he is considering himself equal to god is. Pleas tell us which one is the reason that they wanna kill him? You must bear in mind that they even were ashamed when he told them about forgiveness in the case of the woman accused of adultry, so it will not be surprising that his good deed on sabbath is a way to show them kindness on that day, too.

What was he showing them in being declaring himself to be equal to God, except blasphemy? Afterall, the Jews believe that God can not be seen by human and still live to tell about it. You better be ready for your Jilbab, Dvaid, if you can't explain yourself. I know you can't.

@ Babs787: Alhamdulillah ladhi adaana Islam (I am thankful to Allah that my way is Islam). David you must answer the incompleteness of your earthly God. Leave the non_muslim authored Dictionary definition of Jihad alone. The muslims know the truth. Its in the Qur'an and hadith. Its like Ragu Spagetti sauce; its in there. Where is your in your Bible? Thats the Trillion Dollar question.

@Davidylan: I know am hypocritical. So I need to do better about Islam. But what is amiss in your case is that you just did not see why the Jews, in John 5 verse 18 were up in arms against Jesus? The truth is that they considered Jesus to be blasphemous in speech by claiming to be equal to God by his statement that God is his Father. This in itself point to us, that if anybody before Jesus ever claimed that god was his father, such a person will be saying something to the effect that he is equal to God. This is why the Jews God upset. If such a claim did not mean such a thing as being equalto God, the Jews would never have gotten so angry with Jesus, that they are determined to terminate his life.

Further, were a speech like that ever been made to indicate any other meaning than what the Jews took Jesus supposed statement to mean they would not have so shocked at his strange statement. In other words, David (Omo Baba "Nuga of Ijebu Ode), the Bible part of the old testament is being contradicted by John 5 Verse 18. This verse is actually saying to us that no one before Jesus had ever said it and was not challenged for saying something blasphamous. It seems though by the surprise that Jesus ever dared to say something like this indicated to any keen minded observer that it was never have said by any one before what was claimed to have been said by Jesus. This truly terminated as false all the verses that alluded to son/children of God in the Old testament.

We then have to agree that John 5 verse 18 completely disagrees with the thought that Trinity or multiplicity of God head9s) ever was accepted by the jews. While John 5 Verse 18 agrees with Mark 12 verse 29, where jesus let us know that he was a slave servant who worshipped the same Lord God as his audience or primary followers, we never will notice that that very verse serves as an iconoclast to any verse claimed to have been attached to him and all the post ascension verses that alluded to him being part of and or equal to God, in any form. This verse smashed into completely useless pieces the idea of Trinity.

Where is this woman called osisi? She needs to wake up and put on hijab and kimar. The days of humanitarian Doctors are not gone, yet. (Courtesy of Dr. Ekpo Eyo!).

@Olaadegbu:
How do you deal with John 5 verse 18, which indicates to us, that such a phenominal was unknown to the jEws before this specific verse?

How do you now deal with Mark 12 vesr 29, where Jesus himself, from his own mouth delares that Lord God is One and he Jesus is not that Lord God, because he serves that Lord God, just in rhe same exact way he is encouraging his audience to serve that Lord God?

OmoOba, Oya. Explain ya sef.

@~Lady~:

dropping books from the Bible is not plagiarism or corruption. Plagiarism is taking the original and formulating something else and taking credit for it. They don't take credit for anything and did not formulate any other ideas from it.
Plagiarism is what Muhamad did with the Qu'ran, he basically took the stories and ideas of the Bible and turned it into something else and then took credit for it. But to have full claim he claimed that the original books have been corrupted. That is the ONLY way the Qu'ran can hold as authentic.

I am sure if I took out 7 chapters from your book accounting, and Title it as complete, you will tell me that that is not true. The author of the text will tell me that that is not true. He will tell me that I just simply did not have a full document to successfully solve accounting problems. If I call this new book accounting textbook, in the latest version, all accountants and the original author of the textbook will declare me as a plaigerist. This is what the Protestant Bible is to the catholics'.

Now let us observe the Qur'an in the same light of accounting. There are elements in accounting principals, anyway. Account issues will have to include some valued goods and receivable, etc, which have to include balance sheet of cash and valuables. There are also expenditures for goods and services. If a new theory is developed and produces a more detailed process with thorough efficiency at the daily problems of account problems, could this new ideal process be claimed by old and arcace process to be a plaigarized copy of itself? Hardly because the essence of accounting involves trading/commercial.

These are common elements to the theories, old or new of accounting. The story of mankind, prophets, creations, death and judgement, etc are all common to any text of religion books. Just the same way that the Religion of Judaism will falsely claim that you the christians lay claim on some of their issues and personages. This is the same false claims that you both are now claiming against the muslims. Interestingly, nither of you remember that Ibrahim (as) was from Iraq. Iraq is a muslim society. Definitely not a Jewish and/or Christian society. If anyone were to lay claims on Ibrahim (as), a figure that will definitely points to the truth, before him and after him, it will be the Muslims. Afterall Ibrahim was not a Jew nor a Christian, but an Hanifan, Musliman. Are the prophets before and after him in a differenet religion from him? The answer will be no.

Well see it would be easier if Christ was just a mere mortal and didn't have the powers that he has. But seeing that Mary herself knows very well who her Son is and she praised him too, you can't compare her to any regular mother who has seniority over her son. No one can have seniority over God. Again the passage did not say that he dismissed his mother oh no, it only points out that Jesus proceeded to use that as an opportunity to show who his true family is. You cannot dispute that after he said this he didn't go to his mother's aide. I showed you a passage where he obeyed his mother.

Your statement above begged the questions that could be raised by John 5; 18. I will post it below where first it destroys the any idea that anyone ever called God his father, prior to what the post Jesus New testament Bible writers claimed that Jesus said. It also destroys the possible assumptions that Jesus could ever be equal to God. Please read the below quoted verse;

Jn. 5:18 For this reason the Jewish leaders were trying even harder to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was also calling God his own Father, thus making himself equal with God.

This verse confirms to us that the Jews/Children of Israel finds Jesus supposed statement shocking to the point of blasphemy. This is because such an utterance was not familiar to them. They actually then say that the mere claiming of sonship to God is actually equating himself to be equal to God. It clearly shows that no prophet has ever claimed that for himself or at anytime for his audience. You will therefore see that what was claimed written in the Old Testament about childen and father between Israelites and God is a lie. If it is not then John 5 verse 18, above is a lie. Either way, some part is a lie. Woman, I was going to keep John 5:18 till I need to use it, but just have to force my hands!

2 Corinthians 13: 14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost


These two verses right above, then to the Jews are not correct by their view in John 5 Verse 18. They do not accept Jesus to be son and the trinity that could be deduced from Matthew 28 verse 19, is also shot dead. We will therefore see that Jesus had no superiority over his own mother, whose womb he was incubated in for as long as God allowed him in ther. The woman whose milk he nursed on and gained his strength. The woman who trained him. Jesus was not arrogant, and you know it. What I did before was to point out the unfortunate mindset of the Bible writers, not being consistent, in their supposed revelation. How can a person who was to display the best of character for all diss his mother like that!

Except my child is not God himself. Besides it was already professied that the blessedness of Mary would be challenged by the true blessedness.
Mary knew what was up. She allowed it to happen and was the starter of his ministry. The first miracle that Jesus did, Mary asked for it.

See. You just agreed with the Bible writers about the dissing of Mary by Jesus. But I first raised it, using disrespect or disregard, instead of your usage of the word challenge, you got up in arms.Well, what would he be challenging her about? Was she against him in any viewpoint? When you challenge a person, it means that you find them lacking. Even if I find my mother lacking in anything, I will still have to tell her in respectful manner. In all the three times that spoke to my mother about Christianity, there was never a time I did not do it when it was only the two of us and I never raised my voice, nor did I ever persuaded her more than necessary. In other things that my mother had done that I did not approve of, I never at anytime tell her when there is a soul but always the two of us.

But the Qur'an commanded us not to break the ties of bound between us and the womb that bore us. This is inclusive of everyone. That also included Jesus, etc. No wonder that Jesus said in defense of his mother as a babe in the cradle that he was never to be over bearing and or a source of discomfort to her. But your statement of challenge to Mary by Jesus above truly brings up your initial question of how did he serve as a discomfort to her. You will see that the Bible said challenge. When you challenge a person, they feel emotional discomfort. It simply means that you put the person on the defense. Jesus did not do that to his mother. It is the Bible writer who writes what is not true.

Finally, if we then talk about those who speak in honorable terms about Jesus, you will never find anything more truthful and honorable than what the Qur'an says about Jesus.

It let us know that he was not God, because God would never exhibit human qualities. Even the Angels do not exhibit human qualities. Yet they are also creations and very inferior to God!The fact of the matter is that the Qur'an reminds us that Jesus would never go against the Will of his God. The Qur'an teaches us what Jesus taught his disciples that God is Lord Supreme and he is One and diffrenet from him, Jesus His creation. Read the descriptions of the work of the "Another Comforter," baby.

@~Lady~

If I show you where it is in the Bible what will you give me? (I don't have my Bible with me, I am at work, so I'll put it up when I get home)

If you can show it to me, then make your demand. InshaAllah, I will meet it. If you can't show that it is a general thing for all, then I will make my own demand and you have to oblige. Deal?

But interestingly, I want you to know that they Jews find it offensive and blasphemous enough to want to kill Jesus by his merely claiming to be son of God. What does this show, it simply shows that the Jews never used to hearing anyone or group calling themselves or being addressed as son or children of God. If they did before, they would have taken it as a known quantity when it was said in the New Testament that Jesus said it. I submit to you that it is either that the Bible writers imported children of God statement into the Old Testament, or that the part that opposes the possible position that anyone can claim to be son of God, in the New testament is false. One side has to be lying.

So get ready to dress up like a muslim woman. Edo and indeed is very familiar with Islam. I am eager to welcome you to the fold.

Jn. 5:18 For this reason the Jewish leaders were trying even harder to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was also calling God his own Father, thus making himself equal with God.

Is this verse a clear endictment against those persons, who said, in their earlier and many arguments to prrof to us that God was known as father by the Jews? Please read the text, again and decide for yourself. From the tone, it is very obvious that the Jews found the claim by Jesus to be a son to the God they know to be childless as blasphemy.

I remember some individuals who argued this point of father and son relationship and in so doing made claims that their Bible is opposing them on. The Bible itself, here and now opposes itself. Now tell me did the Old Children of Israel Prophets, eg Moses, etc, called God their father? Did the Children of Israel called God their father? Are the children of Israel, aka, the Jews suffering from cronic amnesia by their finding Jesus to be spewing blasphamous things, by what the New testament writers claimed that he said his relationship was beside being an elect of God in prophethood and messengership to his nations?

Can anyone now see that the Bible itself supports and witnesses for Muhammad bin Abdallah, the unlettered prophet and messenger (as)? Where are the people who claimed that they left Islam because they find it and its last prophet to be false? Have they shamely returned back to Islam? Which position is true when an entity takes two completely opposing positions to each other on an issue? How would you know which position is probably likely to be true? You check the texts of both of them, with what was the prevailing knowledge before the two statements were made. In this case, from the above verse, we see that the Jews were angry that somebody is now claiming to be son of god, when such a statement was never made before, by anyone or any group. If it had ever been made, there would never have been any reason for the Jews to be upset and find such a statement to be blasphamous.

Then you check the statement made about it from the latest witness, who seems disinterested and having no obvious gain from the controversy in the first place. WE check the veracity of the character of this entity to know how upstanding he is within the circle of those wo knew him. We see that Muhammad (as) was nicknamed the "trustworthy," by the Makkans. And his followers were certain of his statement in honesty that they were not ashamed to recite the verse essence of denial of Jesus and God not being related as son and father, but only as messenger and God, respectively.

Glory to Allah who has raised Muhammad up and gave him the religion of islam, dealing in natural moderations. I am grateful to Allah Who had made me a Muslim.

@Davidylan: Lol. You make me laugh. You are too much. My God is the Lord and God of Jesus, son of Mary.

@asamuel:

Of course, nobody pray to go to hell, but if you face the wrong way and you call it straight, your sickness has no remedy.

Explain yourself, man. How do you mean and how are you sure that you are not the one heading in the wrong direction? The mere fact you hang your responsibility to beliefand work for your own salvation, instead of relying on another soul, speaks to the essence why you may be the one who is lost, but just don't know it. This is a wake up call for you.

@Davidylan:

- How does this answer the question? Is allah regarded as Father? Since he is CLEARLY not who then is this Father that we are told FROM THE VERY VERSES YOU QUOTED that the Comforter is to proceed from?

Yes the bible refers to God as Father . . . is it not one of the sore points in islam that allah has no son and thus CANNOT be regarded as a father?

Is there more than One god? If there is not, then you mislabel Him as a father. The Muslims call Him Allah, His propher name, they say. But whatever you call Him or don't, the reality is the reality. He is One and does exists in His purity, and fullness, always. So your semantic undertone does not change His Unique quality. But Allah is God to American Muslims, when they are talking to their non muslim family members. So your argument to separate Him and exclude Him as not being Allah is very weak and unacceptable. So He as Allah does not have son. But he is still the Sender of All Prophets and Creator of All things.

lol look at the subtle deception . . . some christians don't say anything EVERY born again child of God knows that the comforter refered to in the bible is the Holy Ghost . . . it is clearly expressed in the bible as the SPIRIT OF TRUTH.

And the speaker of truth, "Spirit of truth," does have enemies. Many will see his truthfulness as affront to their understood and accepted standing. Is this not what Muhammad did not the fallacies of son/father, trinity and statements which were falsely ascribed to God, then His prophets?




[Quote]
more subtle lies, the verse says nothing of the sort.[/quote]David, why don't you assemble all the verses that deal with Comfoter and we can see who has been playing fast and loose. It will be clear to all that the Comforter was nothing different from a man. It was an entity with flesh bone and blood. Someone whose voice was heard.



[Quote]
- I've already debunked your baseless claim that the comforter is a new creature. The bible says nothing of the sort and frankly your quran has no predictions of any comforter.[/quote]Whats a comforter, but an entity that provide comfort? Is a comforter not a thing that relievves, makes easy and reduces pain and brings joy and pleasure. Even a type of bed spread is called comforter. Is there anything that brings relief than a prophet to his followers? In the second to the last verse of Surah Taubah, we read how Allah says that Muhammad, as a prophet is so concern for the human and as such as a means of forgiveness and mercy to them. Is there anything more comforting that a process of spiritual satisfaction and bliss when one is assured of forgiveness?

- That the Holy Spirit has been in existence since the creation is no news please read here - 1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Read your own confession, david. From your own mouth, right there in your Bible, you quoted 3. We all know that three is a multiple of 1. Then all of a sudden, you turn around and say three is now 1? Please prove it mathematically. No don't even do that, use Logic here.

This is what I quoted as a response to mock Ali Sina in his statement to me about how impossible to have 2+2+5! I had to remind him to take a look at the christians with their even more weird 3 all of a sudden being 1!

David I permit you to use any thing that is logical to you as means of illustration. And wait to see where we will break every one of them.  By the way, what happened to Sheniqua? Oh, Doctors are always on call. Dr. Sheniqua in emergency. lol. Thats on PBA system.

We don't insist . . . Matthew 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

And the title of this prayer is not father, but "THe Lord's Prayer!" NOw explain how the title and the body are not corresponding to each other? It reminds me of the voice is that of jacob, but the body is tgat of Esau. You know that was deceit, right?

Ye sons of belial . . . you have cried, threatened others with violence, grovelled and cried for your own little forum. Wert ye to turn that priviledge as an avenue to run down our own belief in the hope that no one will appear to challenge you hypocrites?
[/.quote]

When I read your piece yesterday, that the Muslim section will soon capitulate, I laughed. I told myself that soon enough, the christians will be tripping over themselves in the hope of mounting a "Crusade," against the muslims. They will be trying to safeguard their bloodletting belief system. I welcome your coming over. I think this is good for all. But who is this belial? He is from Ijebu Ode? My father is from Ijebu Ode and his name (ra) was Hamzah. My man, if I see a belial, i will tell him that you are looking for him.

But David, you rae just begging the questions all over the places. I had hoped that you will give us the full gamut about the Spirit Comforter. You just capitulate and did not even approach the subject. I need details men.

Yours to you and mine to me.

Is there a Biblical verse that has something like your quote, above? Or you plagiarized it from Surah Kafirun in the Quran? Lol. You have helped in the comic relief department.

@Davidylan:

madam you are merely decieving yourself. Sorry to respond to this post and i appologize but this is sheer hypocrisy.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Madam cherry-picking the bible (that i earlier claim is corrupted when it suits me) to force-fit spurius tales:

1. This comforter is coming from the Father . . . which Father? Is allah a father?
2. This comforter is the Spirit of Truth . . . was mohammad a spirit?
3. This comforter testifies of Jesus . . . didnt mohammad reject Christ death and crucifiction?

David, it is the Christians, who for the most part insist God is their Father. Such insistance, does not make it true. And it is that very essence that God sent the noble prophet to correct, the mislabelling as father instead of God the Creator, the multiple head of godship, instead of One full Unique God and many others, issues.

If we are to take your argument about the spirit, we will have to conclude that this spirit is not in human form. Right? Therefore, tell me how the spirit performed the functions that the Comforter was to perform? I mean the teaching, the reminder and the glorification? Please do tell us how the spirit did it, unless he was in a human form, since what Jesus did was all in hum form? If this another comforter spirit is not in human form, then Jesus in human form was not a comforter, as well! You will see that your argument is very wishy washy as we go along.

Testimony does not not have to be false either. The truth is that Jesus did not get killed nor crucified. This is consistence with what Muhammad said of him in the Qur'an. And by the way my argument is all directly from Qur'an. If we turn to your Bible, we will see that Jesus prayed in Geshemane that he did not want to die. If his prayer was accepted, then he did not die. This will be consistence with the statement in the Qur'an.

If his prayer at Geshemane was rejected, it will show that he was not a prophet, because God never rejected any prayer from any prophet before Jesus and not any from Jesus and not any from Muhammad, the only prophet who came after Jesus. Only false prophets have their prayers rejected. God did not allow any prophet to make a prayer and then does not grant the prayer. So if Jesus prayed for Comforter, whom he described to be a speaker with audible voice, and a teacher of new information and reminder of what Jesus taught earlier, please tell us how you will claim that this Comforter is a spirit, without any Form?

Is it not that everyone, human has a spirit? Are we not all from Adam? And could anyone claim that Adam did not have a Spirit breath into him? David I am waiting for you to debunk this, when we have overqhelming description of this Spirit/Comforter, as human rather than formless spirit. Are the messengers of God to Humans not always Humans?

@asamuel: Wearing Cap is not a requirement in Islamic prayer, salah. However, just because the people, meaning the muslims get upset when caps are removed, does not make it right nor wrong. But there is something called decency. That should always be exhibited, in all cases. Even when you are angry, your anger should be in moderation. You should be of decent character.

And please, enough of your attaching islam to the northern nigeria alone. It shows that you disregard all of us who are Yorubas, and others from the south and muslims. Your disregarding us shows that you lack the sensitivity that takes to actually understand what could make a people unhappy. The Egbas have a proverb, that goes something like this; Ewo ni ti arabadan niwaju ile Shodeke? There are places and times that befit somethings. We shoul always search for the best pace and time for all our doings.

And you may dislike islam. It is just too bad. Islam is here to stay and we are not into popularity contest.

@Noetic

u need to specially address that to d musli.m brethrens.
did the xtians ever protest the davinci code, that called to question the conventional basis of the xtian faith: NO

islam as a religion and muslims as worshippers have failed society and morality

Noetic, the Davinci code, was written by a person who is traditional assumed to be a Christian. I know many websites by people of arabic/persian, and traditinally assumed muslim cultures, who write against Islam, unjustifiably. One of them is Ali Sina, who am presently debating with.

Your claim that islam and Muslim have failed society and morality, are without merits. If a person practices islam without the out of islamic culture behavior, you can never find a better asset to the society he lives and the morality he exhibits. I remember my classmates who were in Islamic school, when it comes to academics, how they demolished us, the others who were not in islamic schools.

I have a Doctor cousin, who is in DC area, presently. Her siblings said that they knew her academic prowess by her interest in Qur'anic reading. The sister who was not as intensed as her did not quite succeed like her. And the brother who did not like this program is the one who is least amongst them. Morality, tell me what is better than a law against stealling and the jurispudence to carry out its penalty? Is evil deed, eg the Scam coded 419 as intensed by Senegalese or Guinea Conakry people as it is with the Nigerians. Say the Yorubas, since I am a Yoruba man, no one can accuse me of being ethnically biased and for sure am not a self hater.


@Landis:

DISAGREE.

YORUBA lands belongs to YORUBA culture not christianity or islam.

Based on this, they must have respect for what they meet on ground and not abuse it.

why can't Saudi allow them build church in Mecca to prove they respect others?

why can't US allow them build Mosque at back of white house to prove they respect others?

We should not take this crap from ANY religion.

The only way anyone can argue that Masquerade is originally indigenous to Yoruba culture, is if it could be argued that Yorubas came with it from whereever they came from. And Makka is a sanctuary where no disbeliever must enter. So to advocate that Churches be built in it, is more radical than me coming to your home and claiming ownership of all that is in there! We should therefore realise that just because a thing was existing before another, it does not necessarily means that it should continue to hold presidence. Reason: It could be a bad thing and the newer thing is better, because it has sound morality. Thats what Islam is to disbelief. there are some cultures that should be thrown out, long time. masquerading is one. Another is the bethrowal of late father's very young wife by a son older than her. this is a bad tradition for a son to sleep with his father's wife. A woman holding the same position as his mother with his father.

what are you writing?

I said the MUSLIM are 99% from NORTH. They should be sent back to their place. I did not ask them to be sent to Saudi Arabia.

So your comment is INVALID.

They can do all sorts but if they attack 'YORUBA cultural heritage'; thats attack  on our IDENTITY AS YORUBA.

Then they will get what is coming to them!

I have news for you. Islam is not Northern Nigerian religion. It is not even Arabian religion. I am a Yoruba man. I have a rich history of Islam in my blood. Many family generations, in Islam. Have you heard of Ijebu Ode, Abeokuta and other Yoruba enclaves. All these places are Islamic. So your statement above is without merit. Evil things should not be considered as Yoruba culture, hence should not be protected by any law.

However, I disagree with the rash and emotional outburst of the "Muslims." I think they should have sent an emissary to the other side to address their concerns.

Initially I was just going to my main man, Davidylan and then, I saw all the people claiming to be on the side of the masquerade. Is any of you from the family where they carry masquerade? I also want you the nonmuslims to tell us, if you are Christians. In truth, does Christianity support masquerading? Are they not in conflicts?

Masquerade, as a word or idea means pretension. No wonder the masquerader is always unidentifiable. Truth in worship of One God should be able to be victorious over fallacy, like Masquerades.

@~Lady~

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I've been thinking of it for the past year and some months. Looking at my situation, God may be hinting that I turn and serve him fully.

Even though you did not tell me why there is an order that practices celibacy, I do not want you to do it. I don't want all that prettiness, being a woman and some more to go to waste. The brain and all, must be transferred to some progeny, offspring(s)! LOL. And by the way there is no where in the Bible you can show me that you don't have to marry. Serving God means obedience to Him, alone. Now tell me how depriving yourself of the chance of being a mothe will mean that you are in a full trottle up to serving Him?

Don't misqoute the Bible dear, he never insinuated that he did not care for his mother or his family. His mother was with him until he took his dying breath, when he rose, and when he ascended. His mother was with the apostles too when the Holy Spirit came upon them at pentecost.
When his family asked to speak to him, he didn't dismiss them saying that he didn't care for them, he only affirmed that those who do the will of the Father is his brother, sister, and mother. Basically his true disciples, but no where in there does it say that he doesn't care for his mother or what it is she had to say. Clearly he did when he turned water into wine. His mother requested it and he did as she requested. She directed the servers to do whatever it is that Christ told them to do. This shows authority.
The Protestants don't care for her because they think don't view the Bible in full view but from a narrow view.

And i know about the protestants, already. First their plagiarism of the catholic Bible, but dropping about 7 Books from it. It is their way of saying that they are independent? Now thats dishonesty, considering that they criticize the Catholics, without any shame. I guess I am partial to the catholics since many of my friends are.

Now, tell me what you will say is the underpinning sentiment of that verse from the bible about Son and mother, if the son was not jesus and the mother was not Mary? Lets take it out of the Bible. Lets just say for a moment, its an interraction of dialogue recorded in a novel. What would you say the son is to his mother, when he addressed his audience like that, knowing fully well that his mother was waiting to have an audience with him?

You do know that it is the unimmediate response of President Bush, who was still reading my pet goat that in the earlier days of 911, that he was so satired all over the place.

This story of not responding to mother's call, immediately reminds me of Juraij, in one of the 3 children who spoke in the Cradle. I think Jesus and the child in Suratul Buruj is the third along with the child in the story of Juraij.

Allah says in the Qur'an to obey ones parent, until if they ask you to disobey Him. This points in the same line wha Jesus of Islam said in the Qur'an about his mother. In the case of juraij, he was praying and it was then his mother called him. He did not come out of prayer, and he made his prayer long. But his mother was angry as she had called him thrice. So she prayed to God that this son of hers who was so holy, but ignored her call, because he was praying for his eye to see prostitute. Please bear in mind that this man was very devoted to god's worship, and it was almost impossible for him to perform illicit sex.

But the mother's prayer was accepted by Allah. in time a prostitute had a child. So the society asked who was the father, the child said Juraij! This was horror. So thy went to bring juraij, who confronted the mother and child. He was so angry that i think he tapped the child hard who spoke that he was ordered to say it, so that juraij's mother prayer could come to pass. Kindness to mother is always to be in speech and deeds, both in public and private.

How did he cause pain to his mother? How did he disrespect her?

Wait until you have your own child. Lets take a scenario. He is with his friend on a summer evening. They were all sitting on the stoops. And you and friends are walking out to catch some movies. So you were trying to get his attention. but it was his friend who noticed instead. That friend had to tell him that his mother was trying to tell him something. But how would you feel if he says "Oh, who is my mother and family? You my passe are. Afterall, it is you guys that make not not feel lonely!" Now thats a thing to reflect about.

My dear. think about it.

quote:
JESUS CHRIST: WHO IS MY MOTHER?
July 13, 2007 in Believe It Or Not, Bible, Christian, Christianity, Church, Deceivers, Deception, God, Heaven, Hell, It's Not Too Late!!, Jesus, Jesus Christ, News, Out From Rome, Personal, Politics, Spiritual, Spirituality, Writing by soulrefuge

There is a very interesting portion of scripture in the gospel according to Matthew. In this passage of scripture, the Lord Jesus Christ showed us that he did not elevate His natural family above His spiritual family. Here is the passage:

While he (Jesus) yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him. Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother. (Matthew 12:46-50)

Jesus was informed by someone that His mother (Mary) was outside with her other children and they wanted to speak with Him. Jesus then took that opportunity to show the people that His spiritual family were those who did the will of His Father. Jesus specifically asked the question “Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?” and then He answered His own question by stretching forth His hand toward those who were sitting before Him, those who were listening to him teach. Jesus took that opportunity to make it clear that not even His own family (in the natural) were to be elevated above those who followed him and did the will of the Father. Every single person has the opportunity to join the family of God by believing in Jesus Christ. The Lord Jesus Christ is not a respector of persons and this passage of scripture has made that very clear. I became part of that very same family of God when I was born again of the Spirit in 1989. You can read my testimony on this blogsite or you can listen to the audio version at THE ONWATCH RADIO PODCASTunquote

This is different from the Jesus of Qur'an who specifically declared that he was made never to be a burden, a disrespecter, or source of anguish for Mariam, his mother. We see that in no time in that verse or its explanation/interpretation below it from the above Bible quote that he attended to her. It was ignore, ignore and ignore as if it is business as usual. Thats the Jesus the Muslims know.

@~Lady~: For starter, Jesus did not marry. And this is the reason we have nuns, monastries, fathers, and the head of the church himself, the pope is not married.

My darling, am happy you are not taking that route.

Then we should not forget that Jesus was told in a gathering once, that his mother wanted his attention. His response was very simple and direct that it is obvious that he did not care for her and did not pay too much attention to her demand. Could this be the reason that the protestants don't really care too much for her person? The mother of their lord, the vessel that carried their salvation?

Musical Instrument will include strings and percussions. But there is a certain drum that is not forbidden. I think its name is doof, its like tamboorine, without the metals. It gives a beat to the songs. But songs that is in the praise of Allah and talking about Islam is not forbidden. Just like no all Poetry is forbidden.

Afterall, the recitaion of the Holy Qur'an itself is very musical, like a sing song. This reminds me of the ahadith where during the day of Id oframadan, Id Fitr, some people from Abasha, Ethiopia began to sing in the courtyard of the Mosque in Madina.Allah's Messenger did not let anyone stop them from doing it.

I read a book about marriage sometimes in the past, where the singer was singing in the praise of the groom and his family. The prophet (AS) called the singer to stop him and instead change the tune to praising Allah and great talk about Islam.

Islam is easy and we shoul not make it difficult, while at the same time we should never make it so easy that we bring new things to it as if to completely forgets its good nature and begins to practice as we want. This is why we are the middle nation in moderation, never to go into any extreme.

May Allah forgives all of us. Amin.

I wonder what happens to the topic; Muhammad in the Bible? All I see is the convenient shift to other personage, Jesus (as). But we read from a quote above that Jesus was a prophet like others before him and specifically the only one after him, Muhammad (as).

Jesus claimed that he judges and does not by his own power, but by instructions from the one God. Same is Muhammad. Sometimes I read a person claiming that the prophet of Allah was a prophet, but a fake one. I asked myself then if this person was ever playing witha full deck of cards. The reason is that you can not claim that you take somebody as a prophet, but at the same time as a fake prophet, since the word fake sincerely means "not!"

A maker such a statement has already gone against the first part of saying the prophet was a prophet, by the use of the term fake afterwards. Within the same argument, the presentation of opposing arguments for the same issue are presented. We then see if there is honesty or true knowledge in that kind of argument.

It is as if I say that i believe that a person is a woman and then just turn around and say that she is a fake woman! Would it not have been easy to say from the get go that I do not believe this person is real, based on my knowledge of what a woman is? But interestingly, what is the physiologigal acutremens of a woman from a man may be unnoticed in a young girl who has not developed them yet. or even a tom boy, or an active woman, who hides her charms.

For you to determine what makes a woman a woman, you have to completely know what women dont have, but common and essential to men. In other words, how can you define Prophet muhammad (as) as fake, when he has met all signs of prophethood? I guess that since he says that God is not the father of any man, and no prophet claims being a son of God, and that Jesus was not god, did not die and was not crucified, i guess these are the means of the enemies arguments.

But we see that Jesus himself agrees with prophet muhammad, long before in the bible, proclaiming that he himself, jesus has the same God, Lord as his listeners, when he declared in Mark 12 vesr 29.

@Stimulus:

Quote from: mukina2 on February 01, 2008, 07:05 PM
O servants of God, there are many reasons why we should fear.

Just a question: what does it mean to 'fear'?

It means that one is contrived and at the same time conscious of the consequences of the evil action done or about to be done. hence, the result is to be ashamed of it and the fear is etched on the heart and it is felt so much as if it is written on the face. By so doing one will never forgets the evil deed and the effort is therefore taken to consciously avoid its repeat, ever again. But when one fears Allah, one does not run away from Him, because everywhere is within His reach. But one runs to Him for safety and protection, whereby one seeks forgiveness and repentace is offered to him alone. And if He will, He grants repentance and forgiveness, without any spilling or offering of blood, be it animal's or man's.

Now thats true forgiveness that you do not have to buy, or somebody or thing is the conduit for it.