₦airaland Forum

@~Lady~

You forget that it is how Christianity spread. There were those who held other beliefs that they thought were true, but with proof they came to believe. You still have only proved Christianity to be true to me.

Is this not the same way that Is.lam spread? Taking in for the most part those who are Pagans, christians and Jews! How do you figure that I am saying that Christianity is true? If I believe that, would I be a mus.lim? Is it not my disbelieving paganism, judaism and christianity that I am none of them, but a mus.lim?

I already told you that I won't believe anything that is said in the Qu'ran until you can prove that it is God directly that is speaking.

As I was reading Surah Alaq, yesterday, for my repose to you at that time, I came across a portion of Surah Alaq, which dealt with one of the Uncles of the Prophet (AS). That Uncle was a man named Abu Jahal (father of ignorance be cause of his unbelief). Below is for you and others to read about it: In itself was a miracle.

quote:Scolding of Abu Jahl and the Threat of seizing Him
Then Allah says,

﴿أَرَأَيْتَ الَّذِى يَنْهَى - عَبْداً إِذَا صَلَّى ﴾

(Have you seen him who prevents. A servant when he prays) This was revealed about Abu Jahl, may Allah curse him. He threatened the Prophet for performing Salah at the Ka`bah. Thus, Allah firstly admonished him with that which was better by saying,

﴿أَرَءَيْتَ إِن كَانَ عَلَى الْهُدَى ﴾

(Have you seen if he is on the guidance.) meaning, `do you think this man whom you are preventing is upon the straight path in his action, or

﴿أَوْ أَمَرَ بِالتَّقْوَى ﴾

(Or enjoins Taqwa) in his statements Yet, you rebuke him and threaten him due to his prayer.' Thus, Allah says,

﴿أَلَمْ يَعْلَم بِأَنَّ اللَّهَ يَرَى ﴾

(Knows he not that Allah sees) meaning, doesn't this person who is preventing this man who is following correct guidance know that Allah sees him and hears his words, and He will compensate him in full for what he has done Then Allah says by way of warning and threatening,

﴿كَلاَّ لَئِن لَّمْ يَنتَهِ﴾

(Nay! If he ceases not,) meaning, if he does not recant from his discord and obstinacy,

﴿لَنَسْفَعاً بِالنَّاصِيَةِ﴾

(We will scorch his forehead.) meaning, `indeed We will make it extremely black on the Day of Judgement.' Then He says,

﴿نَاصِيَةٍ كَـذِبَةٍ خَاطِئَةٍ ﴾

(A lying, sinful forehead!) meaning, the forehead of Abu Jahl is lying in its statements and sinful in its actions.

﴿فَلْيَدْعُ نَادِيَهُ ﴾

(Then let him call upon his council.) meaning, his people and his tribe. In other words, let him call them in order to seek help from them.

﴿سَنَدْعُ الزَّبَانِيَةَ ﴾

(We will call out the guards of Hell!) `And they are the angels of torment. This is so that he may know who will win -- Our group or his group' Al-Bukhari recorded that Ibn `Abbas said, "Abu Jahl said, `If I see Muhammad praying at the Ka`bah, I will stomp on his neck.' So this reached the Prophet , who said,

«لَئِنْ فَعَلَ لَأَخَذَتْهُ الْمَلَائِكَة»

(If he does, he will be seized by the angels.)'' This Hadith was also recorded by At-Tirmidhi and An-Nasa'i in their Books of Tafsir. Likewise, it has been recorded by Ibn Jarir. Ahmad, At-Tirmidhi, An-Nasa'i and Ibn Jarir, all recorded it from Ibn `Abbas with the following wording: "The Messenger of Allah was praying at the Maqam (prayer station of Ibrahim) when Abu Jahl bin Hisham passed by him and said, `O Muhammad! Haven't I prevented you from this' He threatened the Prophet and thus, the Messenger of Allah became angry with him and reprimanded him. Then he said, `O Muhammad! What can you threaten me with By Allah, I have the most kinsmen of this valley with me in the large.' Then Allah revealed,

﴿فَلْيَدْعُ نَادِيَهُ - سَنَدْعُ الزَّبَانِيَةَ ﴾

(Then let him call upon his council. We will call out the guards of Hell!)'' Ibn `Abbas then said, "If he had called his people, the angels of torment would have seized him at that very instant.'' At-Tirmidhi said, "Hasan Sahih.'' Ibn Jarir recorded from Abu Hurayrah that Abu Jahl said, "Does Muhammad cover his face with dust (i.e., from prostration) while he is among you all'' They (the people) replied, "Yes.'' Then he said, "By Al-Lat and Al-`Uzza, if I see him praying like this, I will stomp on his neck, and I will certainly put his face in the dust.'' So the Messenger of Allah came and he began praying, which made it possible for Abu Jahl to stomp on his neck. Then the people became surprised at him (Abu Jahl) because he began retreating on his heels and covering himself with his hands. Then it was said to him, "What's the matter with you'' He replied, "Verily, between me and him is a ditch of fire, monsters and wings.'' Then the Messenger of Allah said,

«لَوْ دَنَا مِنِّي لَاخْتَطَفَتْهُ الْمَلَائِكَةُ عُضْوًا عُضْوًا»

(If he had come near me, the angels would have snatched him limb by limb.) The narrator added; "Allah revealed an Ayah, but I do not know whether it is concerning the Hadith of Abu Hurayrah or not:

﴿كَلاَّ إِنَّ الإِنسَـنَ لَيَطْغَى ﴾

(Nay! Verily, man does transgress.) to the end of the Surah.'' Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal, Muslim, An-Nasa'i and Ibn Abi Hatim all recorded this Hadith. unquote.

And in Surah Ala'a, we see that God indicates that some people will not even accept guidance, even in the face of overwhelming evidences. I do not want you to fall into that grouping. But if it is the way you see yourself, then there is nothing I can do about it.

quote; from surah Ala'a
The Command to remind


Allah then says,


[فَذَكِّرْ إِن نَّفَعَتِ الذِّكْرَى ]


(Therefore remind in case the reminder profits.) meaning, remind where reminding is beneficial. From here we get the etiquette of spreading knowledge, that it should not be wasted upon those who are not suitable or worthy of it. The Commander of the believers, `Ali said, "You do not tell people any statement that their intellects do not grasp except that it will be a Fitnah (trial) for some of them.'' He also said, "Tell people that which they know. Would you like for Allah and His Messenger to be rejected'' Allah said:


[سَيَذَّكَّرُ مَن يَخْشَى ]


(The reminder will be received by him who fears,) meaning, `he whose heart fears Allah and who knows that he is going to meet Him, will receive admonition from what you convey to him, O Muhammad.'


[وَيَتَجَنَّبُهَا الاٌّشْقَى - الَّذِى يَصْلَى النَّارَ الْكُبْرَى - ثُمَّ لاَ يَمُوتُ فِيهَا وَلاَ يَحْيَا ]


(But it will be avoided by the wretched, who will enter the great Fire. There he will neither die nor live.) meaning, he will not die and thus be allowed to rest, nor will he live a life that is beneficial to him. Instead, his life will be harmful to him, because it will be the cause of his feeling of the pain of torment and various types of punishments what he is being punished with. Imam Ahmad recorded from Abu Sa`id that the Messenger of Allah said,


«أَمَّا أَهْلُ النَّارِ الَّذِينَ هُمْ أَهْلُهَا لَا يَمُوتُونَ وَلَا يَحْيَوْنَ، وَأَمَّا أُنَاسٌ يُرِيدُ اللهُ بِهِمُ الرَّحْمَةَ فَيُمِيتُهُمْ فِي النَّارِ فَيَدْخُلُ عَلَيْهِمُ الشُّفَعَاءُ فَيَأْخُذُ الرَّجُلُ الضِّبَارَةَ فَيُنْبِتُهُمْ أو قال: يَنْبُتُونَ فِي نَهْرِ الْحَيَا، أو قال: الْحَيَاةِ، أو قال: الْحَيَوَانِ أو قال: نَهْرِ الْجَنَّةِ فَيَنْبُتُونَ نَبَاتَ الْحِبَّةِ فِي حَمِيلِ السَّيْل»


(Concerning the people of the Fire who are deserving of it, they will not die nor will they live. Regarding the people that Allah wants mercy for, He will cause them to die in the Fire. Then He will allow the intercessors to come to them, and a man will take his groups of supporters and plant them (or he said (they will be planted) in the River of Al-Haya (or he said (Al-Hayah, or Al-Hayawan, or Nahr Al-Jannah). Then they will sprout up like the sprouting of the seed on the moist bank of a flowing stream.) Then the Prophet said,


«أَمَا تَرَوْنَ الشَّجَرَةَ تَكُونُ خَضْرَاءَ، ثُمَّ تَكُونُ صَفْرَاءَ، ثُمَّ تَكُونُ خَضْرَاءَ؟»


(Haven't you all seen the tree that is green, then it turns yellow, then it turns green (again)) Abu Sa`id then said that some of those present said, "It is as if the Prophet used to live in the desert wilderness (i.e., due to his parables of nature).'' Ahmad also recorded from Abu Sa`id that the Messenger of Allah said,


«أَمَّا أَهْلُ النَّارِ الَّذِينَ هُمْ أَهْلُهَا فَإِنَّهُمْ لَا يَمُوتُونَ فِيهَا وَلَا يَحْيَوْنَ، وَلَــكِنْ أُنَاسٌ أو كما قال تُصِيبُهُمُ النَّارُ بِذُنُوبِهِمْ أو قال: بِخَطَايَاهُمْ فَيُمِيتُهُمْ إِمَاتَةً حَتْى إِذَا صَارُوا فَحْمًا أُذِنَ فِي الشَّفَاعَةِ، فَجِيءَ بِهِمْ ضَبَائِرَ ضَبَائِرَ فَبُثُّوا عَلى أَنْهَارِ الْجَنَّةِ فَيُقَالُ:يَا أَهْلَ الْجَنَّةِ أَفِيضُوا عَلَيْهِمْ، فَيَنْبُتُونَ نَبَاتَ الْحِبَّةِ تَكُونُ فِي حَمِيلِ السَّيْل»


(Concerning the people of the Fire who will be dwellers of it, they will not die in it nor will they live. However, there will be a group of people - or as he said -( whom the Fire will burn due to their sins - or he said - (their wrongdoings. So, He will cause them to die until they become burnt coal. Then the intercession will be allowed and they will be brought group after group, and they will be scattered over the rivers of Paradise. Then it will be said: "O people of Paradise! Pour down upon them.'' Then they will sprout like the growing of the seed that is upon the moist bank of the flowing stream.'' Then, a man from among the people present said, "It is as if the Messenger of Allah used to live in the desert wilderness.'' Muslim also recorded this Hadith.


[قَدْ أَفْلَحَ مَن تَزَكَّى - وَذَكَرَ اسْمَ رَبِّهِ فَصَلَّى - بَلْ تُؤْثِرُونَ الْحَيَوةَ الدُّنْيَا - وَالاٌّخِرَةُ خَيْرٌ وَأَبْقَى - إِنَّ هَـذَا لَفِى الصُّحُفِ الاٍّولَى - صُحُفِ إِبْرَهِيمَ وَمُوسَى ]


(14. Indeed whosoever purifies himself shall achieve success.) (15. And remembers the Name of his Lord, and performs Salah.) (16. Rather you prefer the life of this world.) (17. Although the Hereafter is better and more lasting.) (18. Verily, this is in the former Scriptures) (19. The Scriptures of Ibrahim and Musa.) unquote.

You went from God was speaking to God speaking through Angel Gabriel, if this is the claim that you hold, you cannot dismiss the writings of the Torah or the Bible. It's funny how you mention inspiration from God. Meanwhile when we tell you that the writings are inspiration from God you dismiss it. SO now you admit that God actually inspires people to write.

I could not have been able to dismiss what is in the Bible, except that we see that even the Bible itself, sometimes have a verse and other times in the future just have the same verse as a footnote. I remember the Bible I used in High School, prior to 1970. But in the same school, the freshmen for 71 or 72 had a different Bible from the same Press, under the same name, but different editions/revisions! What I said by inspiration is that prior to Muha.mmad being told in the AlQur'an, the story of Moses and Pharaoh already happened. Moses was inspired in goodness by God, while Pharaoh was inspired to do evil, because of his heart of disobedience. When the story was being told to Mu.hammad, it was coming directly, word for word, through Jibril. I think you must now understand it.

The AlQur'an is therefore by this 100% from God. That is different from the Bible, which we can clearly see some of it are just from men: The Epistles of Paul and others are the very examples, which I am sure you can not deny.




[Quote]
I thought you won't believe in the writings that are inspirations from God[/quote]You simply amusing me now. I do not see how you could say this in good conscience. Inspiration did not come to Paul and people like him. Is this clear? If we look at how he bastardize d the 10 Commandments, we will see that that can't be inspiration from God. And Jesus, the servant of God, could never have left the earth, wile he obeyed the 10 commandments, but inspired somebody else, Paul to disobey it, while Jesus was right there on the "right side," of "father!"

By the way if you want to caution me to believe that it is from God, you must first prove that it is from God. Showing that the writings that came before it were corrupted does not prove it to be true. Show the authenticity before I can even try to believe anything from the book.

So if that is proven, what will be your next step? If I know that it is beneficial to you, then we can go into that very subject. And I have already encouraged you to begin a thread for this nyway. But if something smell funny, should we not say it has a foul odor? By saying this truth, should that be a reason for your stubbornness? Lol!

quote:From surah Alaq; is M.uhammad the speaker here, telling himself to put his own face on the floor? I am sure will not say that. You know better.
Amusement for the Prophet
Then Allah says,

﴿كَلاَّ لاَ تُطِعْهُ﴾

(Nay! Do not obey him.) meaning, `O Muhammad! Do not obey him in what he is forbidding from such as steadfastness in worship and performing worship in abundance. Pray wherever you wish and do not worry about him. For indeed Allah will protect you and help you, and He will defend you against the people.'

﴿وَاسْجُدْ وَاقْتَرِب﴾

(Fall prostrate and draw near (to Allah)!) This is just like what has been confirmed in the Sahih of Muslim on the authority of Abu Salih who reported from Abu Hurayrah that the Messenger of Allah said,

«أَقْرَبُ مَا يَكُونُ الْعَبْدُ مِنْ رَبِّهِ وَهُوَ سَاجِدٌ، فَأَكْثِرُوا الدُّعَاء»

(The closest that a servant can be to his Lord is when he is in prostration. Therefore, make abundant supplications (i.e., while prostrating).)'' It has also been mentioned previously that the Messenger of Allah used to prostrate when he recited

﴿إِذَا السَّمَآءُ انشَقَّتْ ﴾

(When the heaven is split asunder.) (84:1) and

﴿اقْرَأْ بِاسْمِ رَبِّكَ الَّذِى خَلَقَ ﴾

(Read! In the Name of your Lord Who has created.) (96:1) This is the end of the Tafsir of Surah Iqra' (Surat Al-`Alaq). Unto Allah is due all praise and thanks, and He is the Giver of success and protection against error. unquote.

(See that not every very starts with "say," above. Yet you can identify that M.uhammad is not the speaker.) Right?

Showing me the writings of the book and explanation of it, proves nothing to me. I have a literature book and I can explain the story but that doesn't mean that the book is historically or remotely close to historically correct

Except that your literature book has no spiritual guidance, etc. I wonder why you are not asking the same questions about the Bible? But if you are seeking the truth and you refuse to accept it when it is presented to you, who is at fault, then? If nothing will mean anything to you, aren't we just beating a dead horse here? Until you are willing to look at things with clear objectivity, then we are just playing Pacizzi here!





[Quote]
I thought that the Angel Gabriel was telling the story and God was speaking through the Angel. Now the words don't come from the angel?[/quote]Where did I say otherwise? Hello, woman! AlQur'an, is 100% from God. All of it through Angel Gabreil (Malaika Jibril) to M.uhammad, except the last 4 verses of Surah baqarah, which M.uhammad got from God directly, during the night Journey to heavens and beyond and back, in a single night. That is now settled. Right?




[Quote]
How did Khadijah know about All'ah when All'ah was not known at that time? This was the beginning, certainly he hadn't told Khadijah about All'ah yet until after she was done consoling him.
Won't this then mean that there was an entity called All'ah before the revelations came?[/quote]What is the name of God the Creator, in Bini language, from the people who are Animists? Then Christians? Then M.uslims? Are they different when they speak Edo? In yorubaland, we call God the Creator: Oluwa, Olorun, Eledumare, etc. All yoruba speakers know that you are talking about the same God, and not Jesus, or idols or whatever! Those names were there before Christianity, Is.lam entered Yorubaland. Same with A.llah the Almighty. The Arabs, before I.slam orChristianity or even Judaism, knew that A.llah stands for the Lord God the Creator. There is no reason to change the name that is proper for him, and He calls Himself that, just because some pagans used it! Afterall, the christian Arabs and the Jewish Arabs call Him the same nme: A.llah.




[Quote]
I thought muhaaamad didn't know Christians and that all this was new to him? If he knew Christians doesn't it mean that he must have heard the scriptures and didn't understand them? Therefore leading to his own path of understanding, Isl'am.[/quote]It does not mean that, woman. You are now grabbing for straws. The truth is that your suggestions are very weak and one will simply ask you, wouldn't the Jews think this is the case with Jesus and their very reason for ignoring him? That and many others, which include their disbelief. The same that the Jews and Christians, etc are exibiting toward M.uhammad?




[Quote]
(I fear that something may happen to me.) Khadijah replied, "Never! By All.ah, Alla.h will never disgrace you. You keep good relations with your relatives, you speak the truth, you help the poor and the destitute, you serve your guests generously, and you help the deserving, calamity afflicted people.'' Khadijah then accompanied him to her cousin Waraqah bin Nawfal bin Asad bin `Abdul-`Uzza bin Qusay, who, during the period of ignorance became a Christian and used to scribe the Scriptures in Arabic. He would write from the Injil in Hebrew as much as All.ah willed for him to write. He was an old man and had lost his eyesight. Khadijah said to him, "O my cousin! Listen to the story of your nephew.'' Waraqah asked, "O my nephew! What have you seen'' All.ah's Messenger described what he saw. Waraqah said, "This is An-Namus whom Al.lah had sent to Musa. I wish I was young and could live until the time when your people would drive you out.'' A.llah's Messenger asked,


This is all in the Qu'ran? I thought only God spoke in the Qu'ran?[/quote]Did you read my saying that the above is in the AlQur'an? You are almost behaving like Dubya ad Dart Badder; If you repeat it enough they will begin to believe it. I leave my statement whic you responded to intact, so that people and you can revisit it, again.





[Quote]
How could he have already been rejected by his people before he even started speaking to them? How could he have suffered if his messengership had not even been announced?[/quote]Just the same way the protestant argue that you, a Catholic is not a Christian! You see a problem here? There were presidents where prophets suffered. So the man was able to predict all of these about the future of M.uhammad. And by the way, Mughirah, predicted him as a prophet, when he was a little boy on a journey with his Uncle to Syria. The journey was aborted because they feared that the Jews in Syria will recognized him, even as a child and tried to kill him!

The cousin was not a Christian. He would have dismissed any possibility of Muhaaamad being a prophet. If he was a Christian, he would know that there would be none after Christ.
I know he wasn't using another Bible. The existing Bible is the only one to have come. In the Bible Christ warned against false prophets and let us know that there won't be any other person who would lead them to God other than himself. (Don't give me the crap that the Bible is corrupted, it is the same Bible that the cousin must have read, how come he didn't mention what the Bible said?)

But the outcome is different than what you suggested, above. Today, M.uhammad is a personage revered the world over. The US Supreme court has his personage as one of the few on the facade of the cour house. Brooklyn Public library or the Museum on Eastern parkwayhas his name as No 1 of all important persons among 100 of the world. By the way Jesus or Moses was No 2 while the other was No 3. Is Isla.m the dominant religion in America? No! Yet they find Mu.hammad to be the most appropriate man to be No 1!

My darling, who is the "another Comforter," promised by Jesus? Further who was the "Former Comforter," that lived before the promise of another one? It is very clear that the former and the another can not be the same "Comforter!" Therefore how many Holy Spirits as Comforters are there? Please give names and don't be stingy! If the another came during the speaking of the tongue after Jesus left, what did the former do, before the another came?

If I wager with you, the 100 USD you promise will not be enough as my winning prize! Money is not my problem and not my trial, either!

Sheniqua, Imhotep, etc, rally around your sister to resolve this matter! Am waiting.

@~Lady~:

My dear do not come up against the history of the Church, you will fall short. Eye witnesses dear, are more reliable.

This is how we know it is true.

I hope this addresses your issue

Only if the eyewitnesses are truthful in their recounting the stories to the hearers, who must also be truthful, so as not to add or change anything to or from the stories. We do not have that in the Bible. Since the New Testament is what we are writing about here, we see a lot of gimmick going on. We see a lot of fallacy and we see alot of jumping into conclusions without any logic.

2. Before the council the gospels matthew, mark, luke,and john did not exist

They did, they were written about 35-40 years after the death of Christ. They weren't written in 325 AD. They were compiled into a book to make it easier and official, but they weren't written then. History has proven this.

Lets take the lower number of years to present an argument here. This was just the number of years that I left high school. I can not even remember all my high school buddies' names. The street i used to pass through for all those 5 years, I can not remember them. Was Jesus ministry not a mere 3 years? Is the number of years i spent in high school not more than 3, whereof, I could not accurately remember the exactly all the events that happened in my life.

Even a shorter time period will dull the memory! Ten years ago I left a city that I loved very much, and my ability to describe the city is not as good as my first year that I left the place. You must know that the longer the passes on an event, and without putting the details down, when it was just happening, the more it fades into the memory and becomes a thing forgotten. This is the case with your Bible. one liner will not do. And you can not just defend the indefensable with just trust me. It will not wash.

3. We do not know the author of the gospel

We do know the author to be God, we do know the writers to be Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. The writers let us know that it is them and history of the Church lets us know too. There were those that were surrounding them at that time and they knew about the writings and used the writings even before 325 AD.

How do you know that the Author was God? Is there a verse in the bible that testifies to this? There are many verses in the AlQur'an that let us know that God is the Speaker. He Himself states it. Please stop trying to come up with a conclusion that has no logical process of observation. Am asking you to stat a separate thread for our discussion about the AlQur'an. I hope you will do it.

@~Lady~: Please note that my effort to proof the authenticity of AlQur'an, being 100% words of God, and, 0% word of anyone else, including Mu.hammad, and or Angel Gabreil, is a very rigorous task. It simply means that I should try to analyse every verse of the AlQur'an to you, confirming that no one chapter, verse, word or letter is from anyone. This is exactly what I am doing.

Thank God that you are younger, and, has your full life ahead of you. I pray that I will be around for a long time, with the other Mu.slims, males and females, who want to contribute to this effort. In the process, my prayer is that you receive and others like you receive guidance. I also pray that the hearts of the mus.lims become firmer and stronger on this way (deeni hanifan). Amin.

My first thought is to open a separate thread on this subject matter. But I do want you to open the thread, yourself, since you are the one who throws out the challenge; Normally, Isla.m calls for the one who denys to carry the burden of providing the proof of denial. In your case, since you are seeking the truth, it will an exception.

A word of caution; I repeat again that all the contents of the AlQur'an, the 114 Surahs, everything, is from God. Which means anything spoken by anyone, eg, the dialogue between Moses (as) with Pharaoh (Lanatullah), was inspired by God. And it is God who reiterated it to Prophet Mu.hammad (as), was not there, in form of a story.

Let me quote the very first revealed verses of the AlQur'an, a mere 5 Verse (and at that time, this was the AlQur'an), to whet your appetite, but to get you thinking about this glorious Book. I hope you will have a lot of questions. We will treat them as you present them. God willing there will be alot of eye opening for all.

From Surah Alag (The Clot; as in a stage in the gestation period of man).


quote;
The Beginning of the Prophethood of Muhammad and the First of the Qur'an revealed

Imam Ahmad recorded that `A'ishah said: The first thing that began happening with the Messenger of All.ah from the revelation was dreams that he would see in his sleep that would come true. He would not see any dream except that it would come true just like the (clearness of) the daybreak in the morning. Then seclusion became beloved to him. So, he used to go to the cave of Hira' and devote himself to worship there for a number of nights, and he would bring provisions for that. Then he would return to Khadijah and replenish his provisions for a similar number of nights. This continued until the revelation suddenly came to him while he was in the cave of Hira'. The angel came to him while he was in the cave and said, "Read!'' The Messen- ger of Allah said,

{Please note that he seemed to have been cultured for what was to come to him, later in life. This above is a very direct proof}.

«فَقُلْتُ: مَا أَنَا بِقَارِىء»

(I replied: "I am not one who reads.) Then he said, "So he (the angel) seized me and pressed me until I could no longer bear it. Then he released me and said: `Read!' So I replied: `I am not one who reads.' So, he pressed me a second time until I could no longer bear it. Then he released me and said:

{You will see that the Angel was getting his attention. Getting him to focus on what is inevitable. The Angel was not bent in hurting him. Further, his honest declaration to the Angel shows that could have been able to put a masterpiece like the AlQur'an together, because he did not have the Academic qualifications for it}

﴿اقْرَأْ بِاسْمِ رَبِّكَ الَّذِى خَلَقَ ﴾

(Read in the Name of your Lord who has created.) until he reached the Ayah,

﴿مَا لَمْ يَعْلَمْ﴾

(That which he knew not. )'' So he returned with them (those Ayat) and with his heart trembling until he came (home) to Khadijah, and he said,

«زَمِّلُونِي زَمِّلُونِي»

(Wrap me up, wrap me up!) So they wrapped him up until his fear went away. After that he told Khadijah everything that had happened (and said),

{Please see that he was very concerned and confused; Just the same way Moses was after the incident of the "Burning Bush". I hope you know that Moses was a prophet? Just imagine if there was a group of people who believed, in whatever they believed in, and Moses came with something different from their belief. Wouldn't these people, who thought that they are on the "truth," which Moses is now saying that they are wrong have the same exact opinion as the Christians have of M.uhammad and the Mu.slims?}

«قَدْ خَشِيتُ عَلَى نَفْسِي»

(I fear that something may happen to me.) Khadijah replied, "Never! By All.ah, Alla.h will never disgrace you. You keep good relations with your relatives, you speak the truth, you help the poor and the destitute, you serve your guests generously, and you help the deserving, calamity afflicted people.'' Khadijah then accompanied him to her cousin Waraqah bin Nawfal bin Asad bin `Abdul-`Uzza bin Qusay, who, during the period of ignorance became a Christian and used to scribe the Scriptures in Arabic. He would write from the Injil in Hebrew as much as All.ah willed for him to write. He was an old man and had lost his eyesight. Khadijah said to him, "O my cousin! Listen to the story of your nephew.'' Waraqah asked, "O my nephew! What have you seen'' All.ah's Messenger described what he saw. Waraqah said, "This is An-Namus whom Al.lah had sent to Musa. I wish I was young and could live until the time when your people would drive you out.'' A.llah's Messenger asked,

{Pay attention to the prerevelation character and quality of the Prophet. You could not have imagined a better man on earth, but definitely among his people. The Christian man, Waraqah was able to identify that this man, has been chosen as a Prophet/Messenger. He was able to predict the future reactions of his people about him; the same that major prophets/Messengers suffered before him. Weren't Jesus, Moses to name a few and even their father Abraham belied and berated, etc, in a way that you know that their community did not not like their effects on the statusquo of their times?}

«أَوَ مُخْرِجِيَّ هُمْ؟»

(Will they drive me out) Waraqah replied in the affirmative and said, "Anyone who came with something similar to what you have brought, was treated with hostility and enmity; and if I should remain alive till that day then I would firmly support you.'' But Waraqah did not remain. He died and the revelation paused until All.ah's Messenger became sad according to what we were told. Due to this grief he set out a number of times with the intent of throwing himself from the mountain tops. However, every time he would reach the peak of a mountain to throw himself from it, Jibril would appear to him and say, "O Muha.mmad! You are truly the Messenger of Al.lah!'' Therefore, his worry would be eased, his soul would be settled and he would return (down from the mountain). Then, when the revelation did not come again for a long time, he set out as he had done before. So when he reached the peak of the mountain, Jibril appeared to him again and said to him the same as he had said before.'' This Hadith has been recorded in the Two Sahihs by way of Az-Zuhri. We have already discussed this Hadith's chain of narration, its text and its meanings at length in the beginning of our explanation of Sahih Al-Bukhari. Therefore, whoever would like to read it, it is researched there, and all praise and blessings are due to Al.lah. So the first thing that was revealed of the Qu.r'an were these noble and blessed Ayat. They are the first mercy that A.llah bestowed upon His servants and the first bounty that All.ah favored them with.

{The clarity is as certain as the daylight is, in that God is using Jibril to strengthen the heart and the total person of M.uhammad, the Messenger of A.llah. Why would the Angel continually appear to him to strengthen him by not allowing him to jump off the cliff and end it all up? Does that remind you of an event in the Bible? Jesus and Satan interracting together? In the case of M.uhammad, it is he and the ArchAngel of AlRahman.}


"This was the First of the Qur'an revealed "


﴿بِسْمِ اللَّهِ الرَّحْمَـنِ الرَّحِيمِ ﴾

In the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.

﴿اقْرَأْ بِاسْمِ رَبِّكَ الَّذِى خَلَقَ - خَلَقَ الإِنسَـنَ مِنْ عَلَقٍ - اقْرَأْ وَرَبُّكَ الاٌّكْرَمُ - الَّذِى عَلَّمَ بِالْقَلَمِ - عَلَّمَ الإِنسَـنَ مَا لَمْ يَعْلَمْ ﴾

(1. Read! In the Name of your Lord Who created.) (2. He has created man from a clot.) (3. Read! And your Lord is the Most Generous.) (4. Who has taught by the pen.) (5. He has taught man that which he knew not.)


My dear, I will be waiting to read your repose. In the shortest time possible, we will have that thread to have a full dialogue about the AlQur'an.

@~Lady: You are finished and now I can respond?

100 USD? lol. When you are won over, all I want you to do is accept Is.lam. And be benefitted.

@~Lady~: Good afternoon. We just had a down pour. Quick and was over with, a reminescence of mother Subsahara Africa rainfall pattern. I love it. I made a prayer. (Oh All.ah, the goods that come with this rain, give them to me and all musli.ms, and, prevent all evils that come with this rain from reaching us. Oh Alla.h, the goods that will come after this rain, give them to me and all m.sulims, and prevent any evil that will come after this rain from reaching us; Amin. My darling, we have prayers for all and every occasion. Isla.m is a guide from cradle to grave).

4. Seth was another son to replace Abel, so let the breeding begin again.

But there was not a breeding, except with Adam and Eve; 2 sets of twin births, 2 males; cain and Abel and the primary intended wives, before the first death and first slaying of mankind. So areyou refering to the "breeding begin again," based on this or something other than this? Please explain. I do not feel like taking you to task on guess work presentation, you put forward, above.

How are you, anyway?

@Poster: Bible as a Book/Holy Book/Book of Guidance, is full of confusions and contradictions. Anyone who study it, without the usual snapshot in time (not relating portions which are treating same subjects, in order to draw the proper conslusion/inference), you will arrive at more questions that clarity of ideas.

Thats why you must study the Alqur'an to arrive at proper and viable conclusions.

Everything in creation was created before Adam. dam being in the exact form of modern man. And Adam was not a derivitive from some "human like being," as the evolutionists would want us to believe. Just like Lion is not from Tiger, nor tiger from Lion, or Panther, etc, so Adam, the father of man, was not from anything before it, except that Hhe was created from admixtures of (different textures and colors) earth and water.

I do not have to remind you that Eve was created from a part of Adam, that was removed from him (the bent part). Both Adam and Eve were created outside paradise. It was after Iblis, who became satan showed pride and arrogance over Adam whereby he refused to obey the commandment of God to bow down to Adam, that Eve was created and both husband and wife, entered Paradise. (And to Olaadegbu; All worship is forbidden, except what God commands. This is what I was telling you about the commandment of God, in another thread).

When Adam and Eve were seduced to go the near a tree in Paradise which they have been warned not to approach, God sent them down to earth, out of paradise. God also barned and barred satan from refusing His mercy (this is why the mu.slims curse Satan, everytime his name is mentioned or when is experiencing some temptations; Audu billahi minal Shaitani rajim. Saitani lanatullahi alal Kafirin).

Adam and his wife, Eve had a set of twin sons; Cain and Abel. Then they had another twin birth, which are females. The two brothers were to take from the two sisters, brides for themselves. The choice of bride was by supplication to God. (We mus.lims offer a similar supplication, called istiqarah to get clarity of each and every engagement of our lives). Abel was to marry the prettier of the two women, because his prayer/supplication was accepted, while that of cain was rejected on the woman and other things. (Come to think of it, Cain is a popular name among the Christians; why?). cain killed his brother, Abel. The first burial of man therefore was that of Abel. The first murderer among man was Cain.

Later a single child, who happened to be a male was born to take the place of Abel. You see the presidence of an older woman being married by a younger man was also set by this relationship. Further, Adam and Eve had additional 18 sets of twin birth, where by each male was able to select a female from a twin birth that was not his.

In all Adam and Eve had 20 twin births and a single male child birth. The surviving children were 40, and they lost a child in their lifetime. This is why you may have as much as forty people resembling one another on the surface of the earth at any given time.

But the children of the children of Adama and Eve, now the generations of cousins to one another, took spouses among themselves. This is how the creation, known as man begin to multiply. To say that there was a group of people created separate and apart from Adam, then Eve and their son, Cain to a wife from these different human group created, is simply a lie.

Please pick up the Alqur'an and read. Then adore your Lord God, the owner of the Thrown Supreme.

@4Him: I am laughing at your repose. You are like a riot, with a response that leads to nowhere. I can help you, David. I never will give up on you. (Gba bee; lol).

Inna lillahi wa inna ileyhi rajihuun. (From God we come and to Him is our return). Allahumma arham, fagfrili ( May God forgive his sins). Allahumma saluka Jannah (May All.ah make him people of paradise.

Death is an inevitable. It will come to all of us; no one will escape it. This is another reminder.

@4Him:

On the issue of original sin, you are wrong when you say it can never leave you. Lets use an analogy; as a male you automatically inherit your surname . . . you didnt give yourself. BUT does that mean you can't go to the law court when you turn 18 to have your name changed? Of course you have that right.

What I inherit is more that just his family name. I inherit his traits as well. Everything in his bloodline. Just the way that my children will inherit it from me. Lets take the case of Michael (Jacko) Jackson, to illustrate the issue for a better clarity: regardless of the many plastic surgeries, his makeup remains the same. A proof of it is his children. They did not look like the new Mickie, but the old Off the wall album and the previous Michael jackson of the Jackson 5 fame.

The right to change your name therefore, according to you, does not truly erase your being part of the family name. Considering that when the family reunion is held, there will not be any allowance for your new name, which you only "adopt." Adoption means strangeness but not originality.

So it is with original sin, as soon as we were born into the world we inherited (NOT sin persay) but the very nature of sin. We inherited a weak flesh, prone to be disobedient, prone to error and unwilling to yield to the things of the Spirit. But Christ came and through His blood we are now "legally" able to change our surnames from "son of man" to "son of God".

So your "not sin persay," is truly saying that there is no original sin. It is meaning that no one inherited "original sin," put prone to be sinful afterward, when one is able to commit sins. Why don't you say that in the first place, but instead gives us the running around with your (Jiving) claim that we are not sinless, even as a new born baby? To have the tendency to sin, is not the same as being a sinner. Big difference. Now that we have established that at best, Jesus was here to shoreoff your "tendency to sin, since there is no original sin inherited," may I ask you if there is anyone you know in history or on nairaland who this Jesus effort have covered 100%? Anyone of you sinless? If the answer is no, then you have been playing with wrong idea, or Jesus role was wrongly exagerated or he was a total failure in that prophesy to "protect you," from ever committing sin.

Christ went to court on our behalf, His blood paid the price for our sin and thus through Him we shed that nature of sin to become clothed with God's own nature.

If Jesus went to court, it is obvious that he was not the Judge. Please who was the Judge? That Judge must be different and also Higher than Jesus. You have proven to me that God is Higher than Jesus, in your above postulation. But I want you to say it again? Who is the Boss of the other, between Jesus and God Almighty? Did God ever called Jesus God or a Higher title? Did Jesus ever called God a lesser title, or called God Jesus or any other, except that God is God the Lord of Jesus?

Does that mean we will never make mistakes again? No, just like a few people will still associate you with your father's old surname, so will your flesh still be prone to temptation.

David, I was checking my shoes to see if the doodoo that you are flinging all over the places is rising for that I can take. I smell the fowl odor though. Your never ever be able to get away from committing sins/mistakes shows that the petition of Jesus was not accepted completely by the Judge. If it was accepted at all. If there was any petition at all. what we see here on the Nairaland is enough to show that the christians with all their "Jesus," have not been able to shake off the sinning nature of man more noticeably than the m.uslims. The atheist and agnostics are not fairing worse, either.

Will you now accept that if Jesus had made the effort to defend you and the outcome is as there was never a defense mounted, you probably made a false claim on him or he failed terrible in his effort, because you are still guilty?

@Sheniqua: Please reconcile these two conditions for me;

Lord have mercy on your miserable servants

Report to moderator Logged

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
still a lover, never a fighter

From the above, you are a "Servant," when you are praying. The time you truly show that you need God/Lord. But you are always a Child, when you are just making a statement, but not praying.

Are you not just praising yourself as a "child," when you truly can not substantiate it? Will this not be called "True Lie?" Darling Sheniqua, how can you be a daughter in time of ease and change to be a servant/slave in time of need? Except that you are truly a servant and that you are not a child.

Al.lah the Almighty says that why does He punish them (those who say that they are children of God), when they sin (afterall, they experience hardship on earth and hell is created to punish the guilty souls). My dear, protect yourself and those whom you love from the certain punishment of God. Speak the truth, and not fallacy.

@Poster: Its a good thing that you were very specific about the two people (Esau and Jacob), who you felt that your Bible verse, above referenced. Note that this verse of the Bible, was revealed long after the birth of the Uncle of the two men, the same uncle who is older than their father, little brother Isaac.

Then I wonder how the Christians, through their surrogate fathers/overlords, the Jews, Ishmael (Sayidina Ismail) the elder could have been taking to be taking a second place to younger Isaac (Sayidina Isiaq)? It is not possible, except if your Christian/Jew God is always been partial to the younger, from time. Then you will have to show us many examples, vis a vis from time, that fit Ismail/Isiaq relationship conditions, and at the same time others tha fit Esau/Jacob relationship conditions.

@Olaadegbu: As long as you are also willing to take off the double opague christian glasses, and look at the Al Furqan, the Qu.r'an, for what it is; a Book of complete blessing, generous in guidance.

I am sure you can answer a question for me: Did God Almighty ever at anytime, addressed Jesus as God? Who always address the the other as God, without the usuall quibbles, please; God or Jesus? Please if you say jesus, i will need to see proof; Book, chapter and verse. If you say God, i will give you the benefit of the doubt and just take your words for it. I don't wanna trouble you, too much. (I said your "words," yet you are not those "words."

Then help me reconcile this; If Christians have inherited the "original sin," from Adam and shall definitely die, how come everytime, christians always say that they are blessed and highly favored? How can a soul carry the two extremes at the same time? These are negative and positive, and they will cancel each other out.

When you say that you are blessed and highly favored, who is it that blessed you and highly favored you, while the original sin still remain on you, as a stain? How can you with this stain that can not be removed from you can you then say that you are blessed and highly favored? Are you telling the truth or you are just making up things, a good condition for yourself, knowing fully well that it is far from the truth?

Oro wa o.

@May kelly:

@olabowale , How does your God wash away/clean your sins, or are you sinless?
Do you believe that you yourself is god?

I am not sinless and I can never be God. However, my Merciful God, the One Who forgives all sins, simply forgives me any of my sins that I sincerely repent to Him on. How do I know that my sins are forgiven? When I have opportunity to commit the same sin and I fear God the Irresistable (Al Qahar) and walk away, not committing it, whether in secret or open to anyone. God also bring people, brothers in the faith to guide/guard me away from such a possibility of committing sins. God in His Mercy says He will even forgive the sins of the future. Yet you have not committed it. How? He provides you away out of it, before you commit the sin.

There is a prayer that we mus.lims make which goes something like this; Oh God separate me from my sins as East is separated from West, Wash me clean of my sins as white garment is washed clean of stain and purify me with ice, snow and frost. Another prayer is this: Al thanks belong to you Oh God. All praises belong to you Oh God, All Dominions belong to you Oh God, All soverignity belong to you Oh God. Cancell all my sins and protect me from further sins. Let me do the deeds whereby you will be pleased with me an count me among those who you favor. Another prayer: Oh God, all the goods that your Prophet (AS), ask you to give him, please give me also. Oh God, all the evils that your Prophet (as) ask you to protect him from, please protect me also from them. Now these are just few of the ammunitions from evil and sure ways of seeking mercy from the Only One who has the sure Ability of it.

Please answer this and I will tell you where OUR LIVING GOD called my SWEEET JESUS CHRIST, THE SAVIOUR OF MANKIND GOD.

Christ the Solid Rock I stand, All other ground is sinking sand

I want you now to quote directly, with references where God Almight Creator called Jesus God. There is Only One God. Now you will prove to me that there is more than One God! It will become gods/Gods, if its more than One. You know that.

Just this afternoon, when i got out of Jumu'a, I was telling a friend about this dialogue with you. He said you will never comeback with a yes and a veriable support.


This is the same case with how christian will talk about Original sin that they inherited from Adam. And you know you can not wash it away, since you will die anyhow. And at the same time always claiming to be blessed and highly favored! I ask who blessed you and highly favored you, all the while being a being with original sin around your neck and you never stop committing sins, both big and small, consciously and unconsciously. How do you carry these negative and positive in your body at the same time?

Its like have God and Devil in the system at the same time. Very starnge.

My darling May Kelly; How you dey. How body, woman. Enjoy your week end.

@Davidylan: Spice it up, man. You can do it.

Look, let me help: I was just talking to an associate. A major christian man. He was telling me that he was blessed and highly favored. I kinda reflected just this once, back to the arguments/debates on Nairaland. Here on Nairaland, the christians always reinforce that humans have inherited "Original sin," from Adam, our father.

I am saying to myself as I listen to this guy, and of course you David (Aburo tio fe pe mi; Its okay and don't worry about it. I just want to point it out to you), Sheniqua, etc, that how do you cope with this duality;

On one hand you have original sin that will never leave you. On the other hand, you are highly favored and blessed.

How can these two; Negative (the sin that you inherited) and, blessed and highly favored (your own claims without telling us who is the one that blessed you and highly favored you, regardless of your evilness)?

Please help me on this one! Where are the christian pundits: Imhotep, etc, etc, etc.

@May KellY: I am laughing because you got jokes. But am still confused because when I asked you the question, it was not about how many gods you have. I just simply asked you to tell me, if you can't, it is also okay, but be sincere; Do you know from your reading of the Bible, if God called Jesus god/God, at anytime? Simple yes or no should be enough. But if you feel like explaining, then do that afterwards. But to do the Mambo dance is not what i want you to do, first. Maybe later. But not before answering yes or no, to my question.

lol.

@~Lady~: If "gospel" means the "truth," then a single "untruth" found in whatever is called/assumed "gospel" will actually nullifies such a "gospel," from actually standing the test of gospel/truth. Will you not agree? If you are then saying that the New testament is truth 100% because it is dubbed "gospel," then the Old testament (Taurah and Psalm) would not be truth, either, since it is not called "gospel!" But you have it in your Bible, that is the Old testament, which completely disagrees with your "gospel/new testament" in many ways. I will now ask you, here and now; Is the Bible a complete truth then? Is Moses and David books when they disagree with Paul and acts of apostles part of the Bible, the post Jesus part of the "gospel" can be agreed upon as false or what?

You live in the USA: You will agree with me that truth is a very subjective thing. You know it and I know it. And just because the Qu.r'an is not called "gospel," an English word does not mean truth can not be called other than being called "gospel." The Qu.r'an is called Furqan, Kitab Al Karim and many others. each one of the names in Arabic points to absolute truth, a standard that no other book can ever reach.

I do not think from what Frizy is saying about the Barnabas gospel, he has taken it as 100% truth. No Mu.sli.m believes it like that. Just like no Mu.sl.im will say that there is no single truth in the Bible. What Frizy said as i read his opinion is that he believes that Barnabas gospel is 1000% is truer than the canonical gospels. Either was, the truth 100% is AlQur'an Karim.

@ May Kelly: In heaven, right, who will call the other God? God or Jesus? Or rather, if you are timid to answer directly, then how many Gods will be in heaven on that day you are talking about; One, two, etc? Which One, if there is only One that will be called by the other(s), God? Jesus will be called God by God and the Holy ghost? Everyone will call the other(s), God? Only God will be called God, by Jesus and Holy ghost, etc? What, woman? You are a big girl, don't give me little girl answer.

Except mine is more of a sign of love and endearment. I am not doing it to make you have an intermediary between you and God. Am actually doing it to improve your relationship with God. It will afford you to talk to Him, directly and be bold enough, not to ask for a third party. You know that three is not a company. Its a crowd.

You are a very funny, not in the hahaha way, woman. Listen to me anyway and accept my spiritual invitation. It will be good for you. I will also benefit from it.

A man once asked me if I could be guaranteed Paradise, would I accept death right away, as to say right now? I said no. The reason I would want to extend my earthly life to probably 200 years (and only God knows how much more I have), is not because of the worldly acutremen and felicities. But because in good health and mental faculty, I will love to talk to many people about the Undying and Unwary God. You see my Paradise can wait. God willing, I will get there. But I would love to be a catalyst for many not to end up in Hellfire.

That includes all, known and known. And finally, if USA were to decide to financially penalize me for inviting anyone, especially you and others to One Glorious God, that God will give me the means of paying the fine. Even if 9ja were to adopt that system, I will not stop when i begin to live in it.

And Sheniqua, be ready. I may just decide to make my home in Owerri or some other place, far from the Yoruba enclave. All is for Al Rahman.

@May Kelly:

My dear this God you call, is Greatly than you can imagine. You are living today because of JESUS CHRIST but not because of the last prophet who died and did not resurrect.

Jesus has nothing (Zero, zilch, nada, etc), to do with my being alive, here and now. The Only One is God Almighty All'ah, my Creator has everything to do with my being alive. Jesus could not even keep himself alive, at the crucial hour. As a result of this weaknesses, your Bible told us that he begged, and his prayer was rejected. He asked his followers to prepare for war, which they eventually lost, because Jesus was captured. He put up a weak defense before the Judge and was sentenced to die on the stake/cross. He was punished, tortured all the while to the place of execution. He showed bitterness, since he could not even forgive the thief who did not give him the recognition he thought that he deserved. He showed the littliest of faith, really unbelief or no faith at all asking God why he was forsaken. All of these are from your Bible. Defend each of them. You see that he said God (Elie/Eloim, etc and not Aba, father or partner, etc)?

But please you have avoided my question, again: Did God in heaven ever called Jesus God (another God; am making it very easy for you to understand), at anytime? Please try to answer yes or no, this time around.

Christ is the only God the Son that you can only pray in his name and but not in the name of any mortal man.

I guess the so called unbelievers, eg, Hindus (the nation of India), Buddhists, Taoists, Shintos (nations ofJapan, Taiwan, South Korea, even China), who do not recognize Jesus are just not successful? I guess Israel as a nation is not a successful society, since they do not even care for Jesus son of Mary from the house of David? While at the same time they use the star of the same David on their national Flag? Can you sincerely say that Jesus has anything to do with the successes of these people? Success on this earth has nothing to do with belief or disbelief. Finally, Jesus has nothing to do with the success of the hereafter of anyone alive today. Calling Jesus what he was not will lead to hellfire!

USE common sence because God did not create you to be a ROBOT hence you were given a free will right from the Garden of Eden.

Am using common sense. I guess this is why am asking you questions, yet you have not been able to answer any. Who is robotic, now? And by the way where is the location of thegarden of Eden? Do you know what becomes of the "Forbidden" tree? I mean the Christians/Jews/Biblical Apple tree? And what tree leaves did they cover themselves up with, when they discovered that they were "Naked?" Apple tree or what?

Our GOD is not man. Apply Heavenly Wisdom then you will see that God has 3 attributes. olabowale did not limit God to man, God is greatly that you can imagine.

I am a earthly man. I am given earthly wisdon; the senses! Since I am not limiting God to man, I am certain that I am correct to say that God was never a "man" at anytime. But it is you who said there was a man who used bathroom, eat, drank, slept, tired, etc and was a weakling as a child, who you called god. Therefore, it is you who need a good spiritual intervention to understand God. Just because somebody did not have a father does not mean that he created himself and therefore god! I guess when cloning truly begins to be a norm, then you will have too many gods of christianity running around in many forms. Come to think of it, they are now cloning many things now, including animals and plants.

YES.

BIBLE RECORDED JESUS AS GOD THE SON.

You continue to be very evasive. I did not ask you about son of god. I ask you directly if God ever called Jesus God or even small god? Don't give me a song and dance. Woman, I need a direct answer.

@May Kelly

Use Common sence, would GOD have to tell you not to put your hand in fire the answer is no.

I did use common sense, as you have suggested. Yet, I can't see where God the father called Jesus son of Mary, God. Please direct me to it, without the usual song and dance. If you don't, I hope some reasonable Christian(s) can come to your aid. If I wait long enough, without a clear cut answer of either yes or what is likely, no, then I will conclude that you and others like you are just playing footsie with all your suppositions and claims.

If you are bold enough to say yes, then verses to buttress your answer should be provided.

And God did tell me not to put my hand (part of my body) in the fire, by His warning me to save myself (my whole body) and my love ones from the fire (Hellfire). The way to save myself from this fire is not to worship three distinct personalities all role in to a god! The way to do that is not to reject the last prophet and the Book that was given to him, by God. I can give you a thousand and more ways and yet i would just have began to scratch the surface of the essence of our conversation.

~Lady~: I thought I answered the question that nagged you so terribly, about Messiah. The Messiah for Children of israel/Jews/Israelites was Jesus. The prophet to the world did not have to be titled, Messiah, does he? The prophet/Messenger to the whole world in one single shot was M.uhammad. I hope you can now rest easy.


Unless your desire is for Frizy to answer you, directly. Otherwise, I am sure you will rest wasier now.

I will answer your request about the authenticity of the Qur'a.n in the morning.

@Sheniqua: My original question was never answered by Olaadegbu. You may now try it, before another round od trampoline/gymnastics; Did God called Jesus, God, at anytime? lol.

Now for further illustration about what you failed to see of what is contained in the Qu.r'an; When the children of Israel complained to Moses that they desired to eat other foods than manna and quill, the provisions that God had provided. Moses had an audience with God whereby he petitioned their complaints. God said to Moses to tell them to God back to Egypt or enter any places that they wish to find what they want. Since they missed the Egyptian's Beans (foolmudamas; Frizy I hope I got the spelling right. I never like that food with humus, etc), and all the onions and other vegetables, etc. God gave them a sarcastic or mocking answer by telling them to go back to the western part of Egypt, where they had just been freed or enter any land that they wish.

You see when God gave such an answer, He mocked them for their deceit. Its also in the same light as when said in many part of the Q.ur'an that the disbelievers should be given the news (a forewarning, a good news that may make those with good heart reflect) of the punishment or torment of hellfire. For those who hae any fear of God, when they hear something like this, they begin to take a second and critical look at whatever they are doing. And make proper and right adjustment.

When a person who reads about "Comforter" to come after Jesus, if the heart is not diseased, the person should ask what is a "comforter," in this context? Since there was a qualifier as in "another" to describe the future "Comforter," it is then encumbered upon the heart to ask what did the previous Comforter do? Who was the previoys comforter and his nature and duty, etc. So, lady who was the previous comforter; man or what? Was this previous comforter in existence and had gone before Jesus, or was he at the same time as Jesus, or was it Jesus? Did Jesus know the former/previous comforter? And whats the different between the former and future Comfoters; duties, human or what, etc, etc, etc?

If you wager with me, you would have lost long time! lol.

Am waiting.

@Sheniqua: You miss the point of what the Qur'an says. Since I know that you lov gymnastics so much, I will use the tumbling effect to illustrate this issue.

If a person is pretending not to know how to do a handstanding, and you see that the body is like the body of someone who has practicised a lot on the floormat, one may try to smoke her out of pretension by asking a question that is direct and technical to the etiquette of gynasium and gymnastics. It really therefore to coast somebody who is bent on hiding the truth to be shamed to coming out with absolute and the complete truth. I know the gymnastic bit is not lost on you.

Now M.uhammad went to a rabbi who was reading torah portion on his dying son. He, M.uhammad in the company of his companion asked this rabbi, in Madina to speak the truth my God who sent "the Original and unaduterated Torah" that M.uhammad was described in the "Torah." The rabbi said no. His dying son then said that he swore by Allah that Mu.hammad was in their book. By this testimony the prophet told the mus.lims to prevent the rabbi from caring any longer for their brother in faith. Though, the dying person is still a son to the rabbi and still an ethnic Jew, howeevr he had became a Mus.lim by his "words." Come to think of it his words did not become him, but a means of knowing what he was about; a believer.

In this case, his "word" carries his inner intention. His "word" was his messenger. Thats what prophets are not God. thats what each messenger was. God's "word' was His promise, commitment, Messenger or Message.

For anyone to interprete a dream, (Jospeh interpreted many dreams, Jacob interpreted Josph's dream, Abraham interpreted his own dream), the dreamer must narate the dream. Dream interpreter can not interprete dream, unless and until it is narated.

Hopefully, somebody will be given wisdom to be able to interprete your dream for you. But you will have to narate it first.

@May Kelly; Answer my question, directly with either yes or no: Did God ever called Jesus God, at anytime in the Bible?

As much as the christians attach so much importance to the person of Jesus, as they had called him alll kinds of names and bestowed on him, all kindsof titles, it has not changed the fact that if a person simply believes in Jesus and disbelieves the God who had sent him, such a one will end up in hellfire. The contrary can not be proven, as it is God, according to the Bible that anoited Jesus and not the other way around! Each time, no one can prove that Jesus is higher than God. At best and that is a fallacy, the christians claim that Jesus is equal to God. But at all time, it is easy to proof that God is higher and greater than Jesus. There is no time that anyone can proof that God is lower than Jesus. The worst that can be done, which is also a fallacy is that God is equal with Jesus.

And those fallacies, as stated above will lead to hellfire. Now proof to me that God called Jesus at anytime God. Also proof to me that God also called the Holy spirit God at anytime. Please be very clear in your Bible, when you draw up inferences that we can easily pull down on its face.

@Olaadegbu: If you post a verse, then watch me skew it, with or without the opague glasses. I simply ask you to post it. Again, I ask you did God Almighty called Jesus, God, at anytime, at any place in your Bible?