₦airaland Forum

When we talk about Islamic consciousness then we mean creating Paradise on earth. As a vicegerent of Allah on earth, our ultimate goal is to create PARADISE on earth. What is PARADISE on earth? That is to create a balance society where there will be love, tranquility and serenity. Where there is 'contempt' 'and satisfaction'. Where every human being is cherished (irrespective of the spiritual leanings). This is by being 'God likeness', thus exhibiting Allah's attributes of Ar Rahman - The Mericiful.

Islamic views of Paradise and God are very unique to it. There is no comparison to anything the eyes has ever behold on earth. We must not put our own sentiments and or the concept of others to these. Paradise is in Heaven and the state of Allah (God) is unlike anything in the creations.

as a Christian, it is your job to spread,promote the Gospel. you don't have to be a preacher or pastor to promote 'anything'. end of story.

Could anyone blame the muslims who want to do the same, since they are they people of the last revelatin?

@Charlisco:

It is fruitless to try to share the Gospel with a Muslim who thinks that the Bible has been corrupted, since even if he was persuaded to reject the Qur'an, he would never accept the implications of the Bible until he was sure that it was authentic. Bear in mind that a Muslim believes every word of the Qur'an was written by God and brought to Muhammad by the angel Gabriel; it is no wonder that they see the Bible, written by over 40 men including a prime minister (Daniel), fishermen (Peter), a doctor (Luke) and prisoners (Jeremiah, Paul) over almost 2000 years as human and fallible in comparison. To compare the Bible with the Qur'an is therefore not to compare like with like. However, as we shall see, it is logically impossible for the Bible to have corrupted.

You will not be taking the statement of men, the writers of the Bible as direct words of God. Would you? In this simply observation, you will see that to claim that it is God's word, when actually it is coming from men, is a corrupted definition of presenting the Book. Further, we will see that the Catholic Bible has more Books and Chapters than the protestants. If this is not visual sign of corruption, the tell me what it is? You will have to agree that both can not claim to be perfectly matched, since the chapters are not the same and so are the contents. Which therefore is the real Bible: You will have to discard one as a fake, if you present one as the real thing! Then we will have many people being unhappy about this decision.

Then wait, the Jews who only read the first part of the bible, which excludes the later part, the New Testament, flatly disagree and rejects the later part. Hence, we will see 2 different parts, each one disagreeing wth relative verses from the other. A good example is the concept of God. While the OT of the Jews, states that God is One entity. The NT of the Christians, turns that same concept on its head by saying that God has 3 distinctive entities, coequal and dwells in Him. This is the reason for the concept of Trinity, an idea and word not clearly defined and not written anywhere in the Bible. You might say it is imported from outside of its pages, after Jesus was lifted up.

Yesterday, I waschatting with Ali Sina of faithfreedom.org. He was telling me that I will never be able to prove him wrong, and it will be as if one was to prove 2+2=5! I had to remind him that he never must have heard the speech of the christians about 3=1! He thought I was funny. But that is the reality of things. The Christians truly believe this idea, otherwise they will not be Christians.

I am praying that we all see the light of guidance and accepts it before we die. Amin.

Many examples that could be given but these can have the effect of building barriers rather than bridges. It is more productive to show the teaching of Jesus, to live it out in front of your Muslim friend and to ask him what would happen to society if everybody followed His priorities. When answering any of these questions try to avoid being distracted on issues of minor importance and keep looking towards the Cross, upon which oursalvation depends. A genuine Muslim enquirer will have many questions but most of these are red herrings and prevent him from hearing about the good news of salvation through Jesus' atoning sacrifice.

If anyone truly live out the teaching of Jesus, it will be interesting to see him/her gets married, respect the parents. Since these are not the hallmarks of the biblical Jesus. Come to think of it, the Christian population will dwindle to nothingness in a matter of 2 to 4 generations.

When I read about the beating of the wife, I often wonder, if the Christians are not thinking that wife beating was not the invention of the Qur'an. But it says beat them lightly. And the explianer of the Qur'an, Muhammad bin Abdullah (as), never beat his wife. So if we are to truly follow the example of the prophet, no one will beat his spouse, even when she deserves to be beaten. And any claim claim by anyone that the prophet beat his wife is false, based on what we know of his personality.

A brother asked if the accusation of the nonmuslims about the Prophet's marriage to Aisha is just about the age of Aisha or just about the differences in their ages? If it is about her age, will it be therefore different, if the husband is 1 year older or younger than her? If it is about the difference in age, will it be therefore different, if she is 20 and the husband is 70 years old or even older? In all of these, no one should forget that she was already engaged to be married and the marriage proposal was simply cancelled because of her father and family acceptance of Islam. Considering that her father and indeed his family, including Aisha entered Islam the very first year of revelation. It means that Aisha was alive, prior to this event. How old? Let say either 4 or 5 years old. We will see that by the time she was the wife of the holy prophet and before the consumation of their marriage in the 2nd year of Hijr, she was at least 19 years old. That is a big difference from 7 or 9!

The main telling sign or event is that she was previously engaged to be married, then the marriage proposal was cancelled because her family became muslims. We should now look at things from that point onward. No one can propose marriage unless there is a living body to propose to. Afterall, in those days there was no sonogram in order to know the sex of the yet unborn. If there is a sign before the modern time, Islam brought it. And Islam did not begin to give the indication about these things until later revelations and not the very first revelation of 5 verses of Surah Alaq, by which Abu Bakr and his household (RA) became followers of the prophet, in his new religion.

@Babyosisi:

someone in another forum put it this way.

Sure, Safiya, a young and beautiful girl of 17, was madly in love with the old, smelly and toothless Muhammad who was 60 years old

And much less than a decade, I will be 60 years old. And up till now, I have no cavity and I am definitely not smelly. Yet I am very inferior to the Quality of Muhammad (as).

I think your person who you quoted, thinks every 60 year old person smells like Bengay; its not like that with the prophet and his followers.

Its much of a writing to grasp in one shot. If I complain about your presentation beiing too long, believe me, it is verry very very long by other peoples standard.

And as the answer to the challenge of the Quraish clans of Makka, to proof the prophet of the noble soul, Muhammad bin Abdall (AS), and the moon was split into two. It was sighted by Makkans and people who Allah had designed them to see it, outside Makka. The people who saw it were near and far, alike. It was not limited to the Arab bloodlines, too.

Anyone, who disregards or changes any part of the Qur'an, whatever that part is, is as bad as not being a muslim, in the first place. Therefore, if a man says and a following accepts that he is a prophet after Sayidina Muhammad, such a people have disbelieved.

If a person says any thing in the Qur'an, eg Jihad (struggle of all its kind, as Allah has stated it) is not acceptable and dead for ever, as if the future is already known to the speaker(s), such a group are just as bad as if they never have accepted Islam. Nothing in the Qur'an that is meant for man in general can be abrogated, if it was not abrogated by Allah, or an explanation from His Messenger (as).

As bad as the word "Jihad," is disliked by the nonmuslims, muslims should not disliked it. Jihad has many parts to it. The greatest of them is the one of the heart. That we all engaged in, daily. But even the physical battle (war; struggle which they accept as the only Jihad) is essential, in its place and times. Allah says in His Book that muslims should fight as a single unit. However not all of the muslims will in the battlefield all at once. Some will not have to go unless it be necessay, but all have to agree and commit to the war.

So a group that simple says that it renounces Jihad at all cost, is like a society that when it is invaded and threatened to be killed or worst still, oppressed, it does nothing. That is not a normal reaction of normal people. Islam is a religion that provides the best of the instictive quality of normal people.


A muslim who says that Jesus (as) was not lifted to heavens, is in disagreement with the Allah in that process of protecting and preserving the life of Jesus. How can such a person or group be worshipping Allah as true muslims if they say that Jesus died after he had lived his years, post crucifixion attempt. Allah is very specific in His book in the matters what human beings should know. He is also specific what human beings should not know. His messenger (as) was also specific about all the explanations that are essentials for muslim lives.

Therefore, a person who is providing the meaning of Alif, Laaam, Miiim, for examples, where they are the verses of the Qur'an, is going beyond what the Messenger and his Lord have said about these lettered verses. No human should know more than Muhammad. He, alay salaam said that the best his his generation, and then next and then next. If a man is a later date person to Islam, he can not be better in quality and pure knowledge than even the least of the 3 generations. And even the best of the generations can never be compared to the messenger, who is their master, their prophet, their professor and tutor. Yet Prophet did not not know the meaning of Alif, Laaam, Miiim, or any of the lettered verses of the Qur'an.

A group could not be stranger than this. The five pillars could be practice, with the essetial foundation of disbelief. Afterall the hypocrites or munafiqun are from the ranks of Muslims, and not from the ranks of dibelievers; the Mushrikun and the Al kitab.


@Littleb: My Sheikh, good job. May Allah reward your effort.

The guy who is the host of faithfreedom.org where the "flick," of bad eating manner video is posted, has a challenge for someone to disprove him, about his many assertions about Prophet Muhammad (AS). Please take note that the name of the guy, who claims to be an open enemy to Islam is "Ali."

Below, is the text of my letter to him, in order that he may learn the honest process of throwing a challenge. Unless it is a challenge that was not don't with sincere intention, it is then that you can be the judge and jury.

Quote
Challenge to Mr. Ali Sina.‏
From: abbass hamzah (lfhb_maw@hotmail.com)
Sent: Mon 6/23/08 6:15 PM
To: faithfreedom2@gmail.com

Ali Sina: I think its appropriate that I call you that, if you dont mind. I need to remind you that "Ali," the name you bear with pride, is an Islamic name. You should therefore, since you are an open enemy to Islam, change your name. Otherwise, you are practicing first class hypocracy, in my book.

I say in my book, since you are the one who sets the rule in your challenge to disprove, the many accusations that you made against Prophet Muhammad (AS), on your website. See, I did not hide my religious identity. Unlike you, you should not bear an Islamic name, if you hate Islam this much. Please do not hide behind the claim that, oh, its an Arab name. No sir. You can't claim that since the Christians of Arabia, do not bear it, and I have not heard a Jew of Arabia bearing it either.

But what really brought me to challenge you so that you need to truly proof your empty claims, which is easier for you to do behind a keyboard of the computer and your setting the standard of what is defeat or failure in argument with you, is your posting a documentary of two fully Hijabed women eating spagetti meals publicly at an outdoor bistro, somewhere in the street of Europe. I definitely know that those were not muslim women. Probably at worst they are men or at best women who are planted to make Islam look bad. Well it did not work. We in Islam know better. I think you forgot that we cultured the whole of Europe from Spain, the seat of knowledge and the civility for Europe for many centuries.

But in the words of late Johnnie Cochran: If it does not fit, you must acquit. But in the proper Islam sense of Justice; the burden of proof is on the accuser. You have accused, but you have proven zero. Empty rederic does not wash in proper human settings. The fact is that you claim that what you have said is correct, without any fallacy. Well without even going too far, I can see that you overlooked many things and see the fault in your thinking.

To truly be sure that you are a man of your word, that you will give the 50,000 USD to anyone who can meet your challenge, you will have to do several things: one of them is to have an independent referee and custodian/escrow agent or trustee who will have the money and not you. The reason is that i do not trust you. This is in case that a person meets and exceeds your challenge, you will have to be true to form to give the reward. Now, I just use the protocol of Islamic justice to educate you where I am sure you are deficient, in your playing judge and jury on your forum.

But when you invite people and throw down such a big gauntlet, you just have to walk the walk and talk the talk, Mr. Sina. One have to be honest if there is a true intent to proof a point. All a muslim has to do is to prove that any of your accusation is not 100%. Your empire is finished. No one have to spend that much time trying to demolish you to the ground. A removal of a brick in your house of salt is enough.

I await your response.
unquote

Muslims, males ad females are alway, I repeat, always in the fold of Islam. This is a fact. A way that guides from before birth to after death.

Brother Belloti, masr haba. Welcome back.

Just to emphasis the important of Islamic process of defense, with having to fire a shot, or wilding a sword/machete or even a thread against anynoe: Some of us are familiar withmany websites which are against islam, in the wake of Post 911. A popular one is hosted by a man named Ali Sina.

One would wonder if he hates Islam so much, why retaining Ali as his name any longer? His remaining to be known as Ali provides a window to all of his hypocracy. But I will have to share with all a process which a wise muslim brother has used to challenge him, without been obtruse and offensive in any way. You see, Ali Sina has a challenge that he will give anyone who can provide a proof to dispute his many accusations against Prophet Muhammad. He said he will provide a 50,000 USD winning price to whosoever can prove him wrong and he will shot down his website, too. But he was the one that sets the agenda and determines what "proof," means here. You see he has become the prosecutor, the witness, the judge and the jury. In short no one can win with him.

So our brother wrote him a very effective letter, thought direct, but not accusatorily offensive. In short, he called Ali Sina a liar, without actually utterance of the word. below is the test of the letter:

quote
To: faithfreedom2@gmail.com
Subject: challenge
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 19:57:32 +0000

Wow, just happened onto your website with the $50,000.00 challenge. Man do I need 50K to go to Hajj. That would be sweet. So, I was thinking, how can I defeat this guy. He has everything down to a science. He has even wrapped the Muslims arguments to 2.

Then, I thought, wait, those two arguments are the same once that secularist non-Muslims use. For example, I recall the great atheist mind Richard Dawkins explaining away how atrocities of the past are relative bcause people have a certain tolerance for what they consider atrocities from generation to generation. So, for example, what Hitler did is bad but its relative to what others did before him. So, the war in Iraq might be an atrocity in the general sense but truthfully speaking, its not so because it does not surpass what Hitler and the use of smart bombs etc. So it does not rub us the wrong way as say the use of gas chambers. Anyway, I then thought against using that approach because it gets us nowhere.

Now, as for debate I finally realized that Mr. Sina can never be defeated because of the standard that he has set for the debate. First I have never seen proof that this 50K exists, so I assume it does not, and Mr. Sina can always simply resort to saying "you have not proven me wrong" even if he was. See, its simply an exercise in futility. How do you defeat a man whose arguments are based solely on his own opinion of the facts and not on some generally accepted standard. There is no set standard by which to even judge this useless and utterly wasteful and tired debate. I dont even know if you ever were a Muslim, as you claim. Possibly a trick. I know it sounds like ad hominen but how much more ad hominen is it than the attacks against the Prophet. I know, I know, silly Muslims are complaining and not answering the question. Perhaps then you should answer my challenge.

I will give you $50K if you can prove that any of the allegations you claim against the prophet is correct. I will give you one year to do it and I promise you will be unable to defeat me. Even if I offer you $50,000.00, which I am doing right now.

I will be waiting.

Mustapha. unquote. (Ya Mustapha, may Allah accept this effort of yours. And count you among the true believers. Amin).

Now this is a very effective way to put someone in reality check, without ever being offensive. For the burden of proof is upon the accuser. I do hope that we take some wisdom from Islam, a religion that is not just merely the 5 tenets. But the first tenet Laa ilaha ilallah consist many level of over 70. The list of it is taking obsticles off the pathway, etc in order that no one or creation is harmed by it.

@Babs78 and Mukina2: may Allah the Almighty give you the goodliness of your efforts. We in Islam needs to be reminded of our duties and obligations to the Almighty and His deen. This effort, in the religion extends to beyond the people in Islam itself. It includes animals and all kinds of creatures; nature itself.

Our religion is a reminder to ourselves and one another. Strength is not when you utilizes your power, it is the utility of it at the right time. This include never to use it. If we are not tolerant towards our friends nd those who are not friendly with us, how do we copy the quality of our prophets then? Was it not the prophet who gave general amnesty to the Makkans when he entered it, victoriously. An event predicted before hand in the Qur'an? Was it not based on this that Umar Khattab (Farouq) entered Jerusalem and respected all the people and their religions? was this not the bases of the reminder of Umar to the muslims in a campaign, where he reminded them of their obligation to do good. That Allah may defeat them by the hands of disbelievers if they do not practice justice?

Please let us be just and be merciful to all, if we expect mercy from Allah.

Salaamualaykum, ya Muslim wa Muslima

As Salaamualaykum, wa Rahmatullahi Ta ala  wa Barakatuhu. Brothers and Sisters in Islam, we do know that Allah sends His Book, The AlQur'an after He has sent His Explainer of the Book, Prophet Muhammad (as) to a society of man. He the prophet has become full matured, at age 40, the age where no one can claim ophanage.

We should therefore begin, for a ourselves and others the quest of understanding the Qur'an better, via its Tafsir. I hereby pick Tafsir ibn Kathir for this effort. Please know that this is not the only known tafsr. If you wish to contribute through other Tafsir, please state your source and contribute for the presently discussed verse or if you start a new ayah, let us provide the tafsir of Ibn Kathir, before you move to another verse.

May Allah the Almighty God, rewards everyone of us with the good of it. Amin.  

                                     Surah Fatiha: The Opening Chapetr of AlQur'an Karim.

                                        The Meaning of Al-Fatihah and its Various Names


This Surah is called Al-Fatihah, that is, the Opener of the Book, the Surah with which prayers are begun. It is also called, Umm Al-Kitab (the Mother of the Book), according to the majority of the scholars. In an authentic Hadith recorded by At-Tirmidhi, who graded it Sahih, Abu Hurayrah said that the Messenger of Allah said,


(Al-Hamdu lillahi Rabbil-`Alamin is the Mother of the Qur'an, the Mother of the Book, and the seven repeated Ayat of the Glorious Qur'an.). It is also called Al-Hamd and As-Salah, because the Prophet said that his Lord said,

('The prayer (i.e., Al-Fatihah) is divided into two halves between Me and My servants.' When the servant says, `All praise is due to Allah, the Lord of existence,' Allah says, 'My servant has praised Me.')


Al-Fatihah was called the Salah, because reciting it is a condition for the correctness of Salah - the prayer. Al-Fatihah was also called Ash-Shifa' (the Cure).

                                             The Meaning of Al-Fatihah and its Various Names


This Surah is called Al-Fatihah, that is, the Opener of the Book, the Surah with which prayers are begun. It is also called, Umm Al-Kitab (the Mother of the Book), according to the majority of the scholars. In an authentic Hadith recorded by At-Tirmidhi, who graded it Sahih, Abu Hurayrah said that the Messenger of Allah said,


(Al-Hamdu lillahi Rabbil-`Alamin is the Mother of the Qur'an, the Mother of the Book, and the seven repeated Ayat of the Glorious Qur'an.)


It is also called Al-Hamd and As-Salah, because the Prophet said that his Lord said,


(`The prayer (i.e., Al-Fatihah) is divided into two halves between Me and My servants.' When the servant says, `All praise is due to Allah, the Lord of existence,' Allah says, 'My servant has praised Me.')


Al-Fatihah was called the Salah, because reciting it is a condition for the correctness of Salah - the prayer. Al-Fatihah was also called Ash-Shifa' (the Cure).


It is also called Ar-Ruqyah (remedy), since in the Sahih, there is the narration of Abu Sa`id telling the the story of the Companion who used Al-Fatihah as a remedy for the tribal chief who was poisoned. Later, the Messenger of Allah said to a Companion,


                                                          (How did you know that it is a Ruqyah)


Al-Fatihah was revealed in Makkah as Ibn `Abbas, Qatadah and Abu Al-`Aliyah stated. Allah said,


(And indeed, We have bestowed upon you the seven Mathani) (seven repeatedly recited verses), (i.e. Surat Al-Fatihah) (15:87). Allah knows best.

                                               How many Ayat does Al-Fatihah contain


There is no disagreement over the view that Al-Fatihah contains seven Ayat. According to the majority of the reciters of Al-Kufah, a group of the Companions, the Tabi`in, and a number of scholars from the successive generations, the Bismillah is a separate Ayah in its beginning. We will mention this subject again soon, if Allah wills, and in Him we trust.

                                           The Number of Words and Letters in Al-Fatihah

The scholars say that Al-Fatihah consists of twenty-five words, and that it contains one hundred and thirteen letters.



                                                    The Reason it is called Umm Al-Kitab


In the beginning of the Book of Tafsir, in his Sahih, Al-Bukhari said; "It is called Umm Al-Kitab, because the Qur'an starts with it and because the prayer is started by reciting it.'' It was also said that it is called Umm Al-Kitab, because it contains the meanings of the entire Qur'an. Ibn Jarir said, "The Arabs call every comprehensive matter that contains several specific areas an Umm. For instance, they call the skin that surrounds the brain, Umm Ar-Ra's. They also call the flag that gathers the ranks of the army an Umm.'' He also said, "Makkah was called Umm Al-Qura, (the Mother of the Villages) because it is the grandest and the leader of all villages. It was also said that the earth was made starting from Makkah.''


Further, Imam Ahmad recorded that Abu Hurayrah narrated about Umm Al-Qur'an that the Prophet said,


(It is Umm Al-Qur'an, the seven repeated (verses) and the Glorious Qur'an.)


Also, Abu Ja`far, Muhammad bin Jarir At-Tabari recorded Abu Hurayrah saying that the Messenger of Allah said about Al-Fatihah,


(It is Umm Al-Qur'an, Al-Fatihah of the Book (the Opener of the Qur'an) and the seven repeated (verses).)

@Davidylan: Am smiling. I have a thread for proof of the prophethood of Muhammad (as). I hope you will contribute by asking good and thought provoking questions. I hope you will not be unreasonably malicious in your post and will stay on point. Thats how to find out the truth.

Oh Muslims, male and female, contribute and make propagation of your religion. Invite people to it, by good manners and excellent deeds. Your responsibility is just the invitation and the making of muslims, is Allah's alone. It reminds me of a story of an american white, who became a muslim, even though the Arabs he had known for many years did not invite him.

He was in the company of muslims after his conversion, and he greeted an arab in the following manner, "AS Salaamualaykum ya kafiri!" The Arab was shocked nd asked why would this white American muslim called him kafiri? The American said to him: Even though you have the truth, you kept it for yourself as you came to us. It is your not inviting us to this noble religion, that my forebearers did not know about it. And they died not knowing anything, not having the chance to acept or reject.

We should not let anyone have the right to say that to us. The history of the righteous forebearers in Islam is what we should follow. And not the greed and the selfishness of those who keep this religion to themselves. God Almighty Allah will protect us from all our open and secret enemies. Amin.

We thank Allah, the Almighty God Who alone truly creates. The importance of Suratul fatiha could not be emphasiszed enough. There is a story, where sayidina Ali bin Abitalib (RA), was in the company of the muslims. It was after Salatul Isha. As they gathered around him, for the explanation of Bismillahir Rahmanir Rahim, he began with Ba (the fisletter of the Bismillah. He did not finish the explanation of it, until the Ahdan of Salatul Subh, at fajr time was called.

We should now move to Surah Baqarah; The longerst Chapter of the glorious Qur'an. The Surah, Chapter 2 discusses many and all details of Islamic disciplines. First, there are 286 verses, having the most important single verse and as well as the longest verse in all of Qur'an. The first verse are simple but unexplained 3 single letters of alif, Laaam, Miiim. Only God Almight alone knows the meaning. This is an indication that the human knowledge is limited and only God alone has complete knowledge. (We should also ponder that if it has been a human mind that penned this masterpiece, it will be unwise for that mind to pen a thing he himself does not have 100% complete knowledge of every part of it). We will leave the first verse, having these 3 letters alone along with the other verses in AlQur'an, like knowledge of the Soul, as Allah is the only One who has the knowledge of them. (We accept them as the Prophet himself accpeted them.And if we we find any further explanation(s), leading to the prophet, we will embrace them without any reservation).

The next 4 verses with the first actually describe the believers, the group of people who would recite the first surah Fatiha, in prayer. (Remember tht this Surah fatiha, is a complete prayer. And the rest of the Qur'an is an answer of that prayer, providing the proper course to be charted for full acceptance of the prayer, in order to receive complete Mercy, by the Will of Allah from Him, alone).


(I) Begin with the Name of Allâh WHO is Most Loving and Most Merciful



1. Alif-Lâm-Mîm (Aliflâmmîm -- these letters are called prefixes, muqatta’at, only Allâh, subhaana wa ta’aala, Knows the meanings).


2. This (Al-Qur'ân) is the Book of Allâh there is no doubt in it. It is guidance for those self-restraining people (Al-Muttaqûn)


3. Who bring Faith in an unseen (Ghaib), establish prayer (As-Salât), the provisions WE (Allâh, subhaana wa ta’aala) have given them, (they) spend from it,


4. The Book (Al-Qur'ân) which has been revealed to you (Muhammad sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) and the Books which were sent down before you (they) bring Faith in all of those, and have Faith on the Day of Judgment.


5. Such people are on the Straight Path from their Râbb and they are going to be successful.

These five verse gives a complete in a nutshell, overview of what a believer, a muslim is to be, in quidance, belief, worship and deeds of action. In due time, we will see the differences between this group (may Allah count us among them. Amin), and others as disbelievers (people of other religions), and the hypocrites ( a group of muslims who just say it by their tongue, or in public, but their hearts and in secret, are completely the opposite. may Allah not count us among them. Amin)

As I was preparing for Friday prayer, this morning, the last verse of Surah Kahf came rushing to my mind. The chapter is a chapter that is recommended to be read on Friday ( a period that begins at sunset on Thursday and ending just before the sunsets on Friday), in order to protect oneself against the influence of the Devil.

The last verse in question, starts with "Say," a word indicating a commandment from a Superior to a subordinate. The content/ message of this verse is simple: Muhammad is commanded to tell mankind that he is a human being, who receives revelation that God is One. And who ever hopes to meet this Lord of all, should noble deeds and should associates nothing in the worship of the Lord.

It dawn on me that I need to discuss with my friend, ~Lady~, concerning are misstatement and clear the cobbweb, that may hav lingered, because of the fact that Muhammad does have a different statement about many thing stated in the Bible.

~Lady~, you have stated on one had had if, Muhammad, was ever a prophet, he was a false one, because of the different view points that he has about God being One, instead of Trinity concept. This statement has many facets to it. But it is clear that this is where you draws up your conclusion an infer that a fake prophet at best he was. Really what you have stated is that he was never a prophet. Fake and never really are the same thing.

But in your statement, you have suggested that I need to proof his prophethood to you, without ever using anything from the Bible. This in your opinion should be the essence ad a beginning of our dialogue, whereby there will be clarity of direction. I have listened and heard you and hereby accept your challenge. I ask God Almighty, who we have both acknowledged His existence in our different way guide us in this effort.

I advise you to ask me questions and present any challenging statement as we progress along. Anyone who wishes to participate is encouraged to do so. Maybe in the process, we may be enlightened and better our presently held positions.

@Poster:

Lets du it like a game. I ill post mine, i mean the most torching part of Bible passage that interest me most .

Who is like unto thee, O lord, among the gods? who is like thee, glorious in holiness, fearful in praises, doing wonders.
Genesis 15:11.

This would not be Jesus being spoken about here, as Lord even among those who may call themselves or be called god by others. Or would it?

@Imhotep:

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Quote from: Negro_Ntns on June 02, 2008, 08:05 PM
Imhotep,

Good day to you. For someone who is well read, I find it hard to comprehend that you will say God is darkness in our five senses. I do not want to believe you actually meant it in the way I perceive it.

God is darkness TO our five senses.


Quote from: Negro_Ntns on June 02, 2008, 08:05 PM
A part of me suggests that you idolize God and revere Him in His Eminence so vast that no sense (touch, smell, earing, taste, sight) can fully comprehend. Hence the use of that metaphor in your statement. If this were the case, I would agree with you.

Yes, [barring extraordinary revelations] , touch, smell, earing, taste and sight CANNOT fully comprehend God. That is why faith is always needed.

Imhotep, it seems to me then, that no one on earth has ever seen Him. I know that a verse exist in the Bible that declares this special condition of God. Many verses verses do the same in the AlQur'an about Allah, the name of God in Arabic. In this respect we agree. Even the Atheist and Agnostics agree with us. It is this very reason of them not being able to capture or verify His being within the 5 senses that they concluded that He does not exist. So far w are alright.

But here is the difference, while the Muslims believe that He is never seen at anything by anyone n earth, the Bible turns around and make claims that He has been seen in forms; in a unique form when Moses saw His neck. In other settings as just ordinary human when He was in the company of His Angel to visit Abrahim to announce the birth of Isaac. The angels proceeded to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah. He started the fight as Himself and ended it as Angel all in one single wrestle with Jacob. Then of course the famous one, Jesus being Him, as well as being His son while he is being His prophet, all the while being a child to Mary/son of man.

If these two camps of ideas are 180 degrees to each other, I ask you then which one is correct? Why is there not a disclaimer about the incorrect one? We do not have the same condition in the AlQur'an or for that matter Hadith that explains the verses of this Book. But when ever we have something that changes, it is always in progression to purity of faith. The earlier condition is always abrogated by a newer condition. The newer condition is always better, or similar in a way, but never a denial of the earlier existed condition.

But in this case with the Bible, the fact that the verse says no one has ever seen God, simply means that it completely opposes and denies every and all possibilities of sighting before, during and after this verse was stated as a matter of fact in the Bible.

Please explain. I permits you to use all means of instruments/tools of exegesis. But it must apply to both camps of sighting and unsighting in the same form and strength. Please apply "Sola Scriptura." I will like to see how these two camps of ideas come togethr to mean the same thing.

@KAG:

Same way other fictitius beings and items are falsified. That I can't see the back of my neck is a silly reason to conclude that the boujie (lol) monster is in my closet. Look, I don't mean to be rude, but you make some of the worst arguments fort the existence of gods that I've ever seen.
[/quoe]

You don't wanna be rude to a man, but God means nothing to you? You see why my arguments about the existence are some of the worst to you now? A mind that is devoid of the existence of the Creator will always seem to think itself very enlightened, until it realizes that it has made a mistake all along, at the time of death.

Pharaoh thought that he was god. He even boasted and ask is minister of works to construct a structure so that he can climb up to heaven and confront Moses' God. The minister was just as bad, because he could have told him that it is structurally impossible to construct such a structure. But he dubiously told Pharaoh that he will find nothing in heaven. But we see that he Hamman had been to heave before he made such a foolish statement to Pharaoh. But when Pharaoh was dying he was now acknowledging the God of Moses, the God he had thought so little of, just before.

Well God preserved his drowned body for other future generations to see. Go and make your own research, KAG and stop all this fake pride and arrogance. You were born by a mixture of sexual fluid of man and the product (egg) of a woman. You were in her stomach until you came out of her. Then you were helpless for a long time before you became this strong man. And if you live long on earth you will go back to being helpless at very old age. Then finally you will die and be buried or cremated or thrown away as if disposed and unwanted or being used for medical experiment.

Regardless of your chosen way, I guarantee you that there is a day of Judgement, whereby you will be recreated and ypu will recognize yourself as this very man who I am writing to. Then you will be judged. Now do you want for a harsh condition or a condition of ease? You will have to choose this based on your own hope.

@Cuteness01:

ONE THING YOU PPL MUST KNOW IS THIS,,SOME OF THESE ARABS;- FROM WHOM You GOT THE ISLAMIC RELIGION, KEEP ON AS MUSLIMS 'COS THEY WILL BE KILLED IF THEY DARE TO CHANGE TO ANOTHER RELIGION .my friends actually tell me,u know,,,when i tell them about how we always ve religious clashes in Naija,,,he tells me "any muslim who does not acknowledge christianity,and judaism as true,,,is very stupid"

Ask your arab friend to show you, in Qur'an and or in the Hadith, where Allah and or His Messenger (AS) acknowledgement of Christianity and Judaism as true religion. When he can not, know that he is being hypocritical with you all along. If he can then bring us the information.

My lady, I think you can post here anytime you want. You should post here and I and others will like to know your finding from this arab friend of yours. First, Islam is not for arabs, because not all arabs are muslims and not all muslims are arabs.

Finally, tell your arab friend that a muslim had told you that islam got to Africa (Ethiopia) before it got to Madina. Then surprise him that Makka is in the greater Continental Africa. And there are many tribes of africa (Yoruba of Nigeria is one of them), that can trace its origin from or to the vicinity of Makka.

@Olaadegbu: Thanks for your translation. But you should notice the tone of the poster. His tone of reverence to the Almighty. If he, the poster had been from a culture where there clear thought of intonation when you respect and when you are not, it will seem that it is a plural "Pronoun, eg you, as in the Kile." But we know that this is how we talk to our elders. Henc it is no wonder that the poster uses a second person plural, in a definite majestic tone. Kudos to you people.

@KAG: Your limited knowledge about the world, and the physical and visual issues, of our days are all signs of your inefficiency to even begin to realize that you just did not appear on this plane, by accident. If you organize your life to wards a goal that you set for yourself, then know that Someone has designed you to have those instinctive impulses to at least want to accomplish that very lofty goal that you set out to accomplish.

Your kind of persons have argued so irrationally about things that are invisible: God the almighty, all His Angels, other spirits that we call jinns in Islam, Hellfire and paradise, and yes, indeed heavens, all the 7 layers of them. The lowest of the heavens, is an envelope for all that science will ever discover and even there will remain something undiscovered till the day the earth will perish.

How then, do you continue to tell us what is unseen, especially, when science is still just at the fringes of discoveries. Please tell me if you can, can you see the back of your neck, without anything to aid you? When you can, then come back to tell us how. As a matter of truth, post it on Youtube and let us view it for validity. I am very confident that you can never see the back of your own neck or the part of your face and neck before your shoulders. Thats even in frontal part of your body, withput you using anything as aid and you do not even have to do any gymnastics.

If you can not see any of these part of your own body, how do you then hope to disprove the existence of God, or discover him, when you fail to even discover your own self?


If you use mirrowr to see these hidden part of your body, then know that the mirror to see God is this whole world itself. Start by looking at yourself about the purpose of life. Why are you here on earth? Is there a reason that you human instead of other things that you see or not seen?

@Pastor AIO: OKare. Gbere. Omo Oduduwa. I have a throw back on the Alawiye and the Awo Rerin era.

Nigeria should copy from the west in what the west have done in goodness.

@Imhotep: Kini iwo ogbeni yi nso? O tun ti bere awa wi e. So tell us what you mean by deeds? Will it include twisting words? You know the meaning of Olabowale, without any interpretation, right?

@Texazzpete: Imhotep is one of those people. I need to recognize.

@~Lady~:

"I will shower you with love and affection."

So will I be receiving two different things or will I be receiving the same thing? Will I be showering you with love and then separately be showering with affection? Which one comes first?

You know that love and affection mean the same thing. WE really don't have to interprete here. You know it. And I know it. But holy spirit and fire as elements of baptizm are two things because of the conjuction, "and," and they are not the same thing. The spirit is not a visible element, always while fire is visible and it even has a tell tale signs: Smoke, heat, brightness, etc.

lol. Efeosa, you ae doing an overkill in your presentation. If I go by the sentence, love comes first. But you are affectionate with the person that you love. That is the easier way to have the affection as well. When it is affection that comes first, it may take a longer time to develop love because love is more emotional. I think this love and affection thing is done and over with. Lets leave that alone.

I am very disappointed in your use of Mountain of fire. It is just a name of a church. I really thought you could do better than that.

I am disappointed in myself too. It shows that I am just an ordinary person who needs God guidance, always. But you know that when the church choose a name like that, while their whole objective is to run away from Hellfire, one needs to take a critical look at the wisdom behind it. Its in the same light I see Babangida who calls himself evilgenius. How can a musl.im attaches evil to his own identity? You will see that it is odd. I call it hypocracy, which is worse than outright disbelief.

The Holy Spirit and Fire are synonymous.

Don't lets go there again. I will tell you my opinion, when next we talk. I am grinning. Knowing you, that will not be soemthing you would not have objection to. But remind me, please.  



@[Pastor AIO]
And of the people are some who say," We believe in Allah and the last day", but they are not believers.  They think to deceive Allah and those who believe, but they deceive not except themselves and perceive it not. -

Surah Al-Baqarah 8 and 9
[quote][/quote]God talks about the hypocrites among the musli.ms.  

@favcom: My man, I was pointing out to anyone what they call Jesus. But I was saying in that verse that Jesus was taliking about the hypocrites in christianity, whom he was condemning. Just the verses of Surah Baqarah above quoted by Pasto AIO. God condemns the hypocrites among the muslim.s. Thats  fact. there should not be a fight about that. You see me agreeing with the Pastor AIO. The verses are direct to the topic. What one needs to do is to ask, am i one of these hypocrites? That should be the starting point.

@Texazzpete: Ol boy, no one restricts you from taking a peep. You can even respond or start a thread in there. I have friends in the general section, which you call Christian. When they tug on me, i respond back to them. 4Him and ~Lady~ are just two gender examples.

@~Lady~:

Olabowale my name, among the yoruba is not a name that needs any explanation or a further strange and indirect look at it. I use my name as an example of what is direct

I don't know what Olabowale means you have to interpret that for me. Since interpretations are not necessary, would you please let me know the meaning of Ikponmwosa.

Babe. Read my entry. No Yoruba person will ask the meaning of that name. You are not Yoruba by birth, by language and in mannerizm/culture. You said it, even though the Binis can in good conscience say that their bloodline and the yoruba bloodline has the same umbilical cord, in recent history.

I take it that Ikponmwosa is a name in Edo language. However, am not a Bini person and I do not speak the Edo language. But am sure the elders of the Bini people will have no problems with the name. They would not need an explanation or interpretation. This is the reason that I ask: why would anyone need an interpretation of a simple and direct sentence in a language that the have a good mastery of? If I replace verse 29 of Mark 12, fro m Jesus to just a common name, and God to Boss of a company and Lord to Chairman of same company, you will not have problem saying that the speaker, the common name is a worker and also a subordinate of the Boss who is also the Chairman. This is look at it as plain as possible, without any religious hang over.

Seeing is believing right? So does God exist and have you seen him? Everything must be in the physical right? Where is God in the physical?

I remember that you told me that you are stubborn. I see the traces of stubbornness in you. You can't hide it. But God gives all indication of His existence. All you have to do is to observe and even in yourself there are signs that God exists. But if you believe that God is not in the Physical, how then are you taking jesus to be God? I am sure there are verses in the Bible that says he is god and there are others that say he is lord. Is there any verse that says that he is god and lord at the same time? But we see that Jesus himslef says that he and his listeners in Mark 12 verse 29 have the same Entity who is bothe their God and Lord. Now, who should we believe; Jessu or others who wrote verses in the Bible going against what Jesus himself said?

@~Lady~:

Why does every verse in the Qu'ran need and explanation? Is there any verse in the Qu'ran that doesn't need an interpretation?

No. Not every verse or even chapters of the AlQur'an needs explanations. For example Chapter 112 does not. Chapter 109, does not. They are very direct. Even the first chapter does not. And many more verses does not. The verse commanding covering up of body does not need any explanation at all. Every woman knows what are the instruments of attractions among her body parts. You don't have to interprete when God says that He is One. That He does not have a progeny. That He was not a progeny of anyone. Which parts need interpretation? Zero, because they are very clear. Thats what you find among the muslims.

Dude in any language, an interpretation or explanation is always needed or else you won't understand. It is not just for religious works. This sentence I write to you needs to be understood by you, your brain explains and interprets it to you, and that is why you are able to understand what I am posting.

But what my brain interpretes and explains (your opinion now based on your writing above), is exactly what you write. My brain will not tell me One is Three. One is One and definitely different from three. If I say to you that I am bearded, you will not have to interprete it to mean a clean shaven man, or just a person with moustache or a side burns. Beard is beard. It is the hairs on the lowest part of the head. I just pin point the place hair is supposed to be to form a beard.

Don't forget I posted a question of how is the Word of God separate from God himself and the muuslims had to "explain" to me how it means the word be and it is.

God said Be so it Becomes (Kun is Be, a command. Fa is so the springing in to action. Ye kun; it Becomes). This short statement, Kun fa ye kun does two thing; It tells the believers how immediate Allah's command manifests as soon as it is given. Then it negates the claim of any out of place and incorrect statements by others about creations and any process of creation that they may find unique, hence a special claim is attached to that creative process and what is created by it.  Since you are a christian and you can read "Be and it is," but yet want to put a slant to it or just not accepting it, it is the only reason you asked for explanation. Just the mere reading of it gives you the complete jist of it. Remember God said that He but only commands, when He decree a thing to happen. Then He said His command is Be and the thing happens as in the it is part.  A seeker of truth, without preconcieved notions will read it exactly the way it is.

I know your voice, because of your words that I have heard, but I havenever seen you. Thus it mean that when I hear your words that you are hear with me, physically? Of course not.

Quote
If you don't or there are, how do you interprete Mark 12 verse 29, talking about Jesus saying that oh my people listen, your God and my God, is but just One Lord! It denies anything more than 1 entity. Then we move to post Jesus verses where the postulation of of other people's 3 godhead was presented. If these two verses are interpreted, there is no way that they will mean the same thing. Please lets have a good conscience about this.

This is why you lack the mystery of Christ. I honestly don't know how else to explain it to you, since you want to see God as three in Christianity, but he is not. It's cool.

Efeosa. How do you give up so easily? Is it because you can never in good conscience see how the two can mean the same? If you read them the way they are, the oppose each other. If you interprete them, they are bound to disagree. There is no way clear glass and pure water can become the same thing. My dear Efeosa, it is not for you to accept the unacceptable. When you become an accountant, God willing, I will give you a condition that will be unreal and ask you to resolve it. It will be difficult to do.

If I give you a million USD to hold in a safe deposit box and never to pledge it for investment and never to do anything with it. If after a year, I ask you to give me my funs back, but then I said it must be three million USD. Definitely, you will ask me how that is possible, even though, I have sent surrogates around your office saying that its three mil from the moment I gave you the money. If they tell it so much that you hear it, you may only say to those who are your associates that the surrogates are liars and that people will know the truth when the time comes. It will not be unusual that you say to your close associates that you may confront me for the truth, if they hear it directly from me.

Saying God is one of the three is even worse than this scenerio above. Afterall we are both humans, and friends. Please think about it. You dont have to take my terrible approach of telling you the truth, for you to reject it outright, without any thorough thought about it. We are friends and sometimes friends need  to be brutal in speech, as long as it is the truth. I am not saying that I do not have softness about me. I truly have and you have witnesses that am a good listener. When you want me to just listen I will. When you ask me for truth, I will tell you. It is you who needs to take it.

@~Lady~:

You and I both know the context in which you made your statement and it is very evident when you stated that Jesus condemned people in this very religion.

Muhamma.d (as) condemned musli.ms, too. He said that there will be 72 divisions that will go to hellfire, while only 1 will not go. No mus.lims hears it from anyone outside Isl.am, and the Musli.m get bent out of shape. Rather the musl.im will say this is a reminder for me to not be from the 72 that will go to hellfire first, before going to paradise, or remaining permanently in hell. The AlQur'an condemn the hypocrites among the musl.ims. It says this people will even have a punishment worse than just plain outright disbelievers. You are too sensitive. No wonder you have not taking away anything from our conversation. You gling to much to what is unnecessary.

Tell me that you were not trying to make implications about the Christian religion (this has been your very goal)
So no matter how subtle you make your statement, the underlay is still the smae. You are making a mockery of Christianity.

You need to stop putting words in my mouth. You don't know my heart. I am not a christian. I am not a Jew also. Neither religion do I want to practice. Why? They do not follow the light of the prophet they claim to follow for guidance. Prophets receive revelations. Prophet says exactly what comes to him of what is revealed to him. Prophet explains to his community of every revelation, in words and actions. The community is expected to follow him, step by step, but not deviate from him as when they make up their own different ideas up.

If the Children of Israel had followed the revelation of Moses, they would have found all the signs on Jesus when he came. They would all have followed him in one sweep, as they did with Moses out of Egypt.

If the combined followers of Jesus had followed the revelation of Jesus, they would have found all the signs on Muhamm.ad when he came. They would have followed him in one sweep, as they would have earlier followed Jesus, without the post Jesus slants.

You should know that I have many Christians in my life. I am hoping that they change though. But I am not forcing them. I want them to change because they found I.slam to be sound, and not because of me. Any christian who knows me will tell you that am not shy to speak my mind, but am tolerant to the religion of Christianity.

Yesterday, a Jewish friend, almost a father figure to me called and he was telling some situations with him. We then started talking about fasting. I had to tell him about the fasts of the Children of Isreal. How Moses fasted 40 days, instead of 30 days. The same tradition that the Christians adopted. Jesus did not start the fast of 40 days, but he was only following in the tradition of Moses. Incidentally, it was this 40 day stay on the Mount Sinai that was the window of opportunity for the "creation of a god," by those people who wer just be rescued, without any of their lives being perished, while a well oiled military and their "supreme commander, Pharaoh," perished! Now do you ever think that I did not tell this Jew the truth? I did. And I pity the late Lance S. Adler who just died a week ago. He was my Lawyer for 8 years. I wished I had known Is.lam then. In all the times that we spent together, I would have challenged his heart to the true worship of God. How Moses worshipped and instructed future generations to do.

Efeosa, this is what i am doing with you. I thought we were friends. I think you had your thoughts all along. You asked me questions about Is.lam I gave it to you straight. I said again tht whatever Muha.mmad said, if it is not clear is what is followed. For example, God said make Salah. But there were no instructions of the many rakah for each. Mu.hammad gave the full details, in speech as in the ahadith and in action as in the sunnah. No one can come later and say, well i want the early afternoon prayer to be different from what Mu.hammad established. This is guidance. Allah reveals. Muhammad explains.

@Ayinba1: As Salaamualaykum wa Rahmatullahi ta ala Wa Barakatuh.
Divorce is a very terrible thing. But does happen.

What the man is doing is actually against Islam. However, is that a common practice of this man? Has his wife been advicing him and warning him against evils like this? Since we know the importance of marriage, being considered half of the deen, the woman need to be sit her husband down and discuss the issue.

She needs to reminds him of the evils of this type of behaviors. Then if he is not listening, she should go to the parents of the husband to request that they need to talk to the husband against evil. She may not even tell his parents, but to simple encourage them to advice and encourage him to doing good deeds. It will be necessary to hide hisshame, unless everyone knows about it already.

She should never as long as she is married to him, stop advicing him about doing things and make halal money. If all fails then she needs to get the two of thm to talk to a knowledgeable person, who is very pious. It is after she had exhausted every chance to keep the man honest and he is obeying God that she can begin to contemplate divorce.

And if she insist, based on just that she does not love him anymore, she may have to return the whole dowry. Read the case concerning it in Qur'an and ahadith about divorce.

I ask God to make them better people and good family who will love each other for the pleasure of God.