₦airaland Forum

rhektor:
Must you comment at all? I have observed that you jump from thread to thread to diss Yorubas let me ask you what is it that keep you killing yourself from within whenever you hear or think of Yoruba? This thread is not about Yoruba but you find a way to tie it around Yoruba. My guy try give youself a break this is 2018.
Happy new year brother

2019, you meant?

googi:
Olu17,

Do you think the Hebrew pay attention or care one bit about Yoruba reorientation into Hebrew or Arabs for that matter.

They just see Yoruba and Igbo fighting of who is more Jewish as wannabes because of their success.

In the case of the piety you attributed to Hebrew, neither the Africans in Israel or Palestine would agree with you. Not even people like the wife of Tony Blair in Europe and America.

Indeed, it is such piety in the face of their attrocities that keep Africans down.

Do you know the capital of "organ transplant"
market locally known as rituals in Nigeria?

First, Yes, because we alI know the Israelis care about seeking out the darkskin Hebrews before being reoriented and assimilated into the larger family of the Abraham Race as it has been written in, ‘ Isaiah 11:11 (The Israel Bible) And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord will set His hand again the second time to recover the remnant of His people, that shall remain from Ashur, and from Mitzrayim, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.'

But the Yoruba won't accept such assimilation unless the Israelis accept the information as regard part of the linguistic, Ifa-Ephod,etc before the unification of the Race. I know this because the modern day Israelis are looking for the opportunity to really verify any inscription in Africa or anywhere else which is inspired by Early-Hebrew related alphabets or writing.

If you remember vividly, the Ibo stock of Eastern Nigeria were visited not too long ago because some scholars of Ibos and other sympathisers claimed that Ibos were descendants of Eri or Nri,which has been properly identified as Eri by Hebrew linguists. Unfortunately, the Hebrew linguists found no Semitic or early Hebrew inscription in INSIBIDI writing nor in Iboland,even with the so called sign of David was rendered as no good evidence to proof their claim.

The most interesting aspect of this research is that the dna was not the basis for the visitation by the Israelis researchers but inscription of early Hebrews if they, ‘part of the lost tribe of Israel really existed in Eastern Nigeria but yet to be found. Perhaps, Ibos will make a good case if they have such within their grip.

On Yoruba case, this is what was said of Opa Oranmiyan by Ayinla Ogun whom you probably know as the Reverend Samuel Johnson, the author of the seminal The History of the Yorubas , described the curious arrangement:

“The nails are arranged in such an ordered manner as to render them significant. First, there are 61 in a straight line from the bottom upwards at interval of about 2 inches on either side in midline; and next, at about a distance of 4 inches on either side of this, and from the same level on top, two parallel lines of 31 of the midline. Then in the space between these three rows of parallel lines, and about the level where they converge, is found the most conspicuous of the carvings...”

The Opa was carved of granite gneiss. That’s the first mystery. Obviously Oranmiyan and other yoruba ancestors had technological knowledge before they could carve the structure out of granite. Infact, the European explorers who examined the Opa were of the opinion that it could have been made in the first millennium C. E.

Unlike Egyptian obelisk, the Yoruba obelisk Oranmiyan lacks a pyramidion – the g electrum at the top of an Egyptian pyramid it has a unique design. Dennett in 1910 “Near the centre of the pillar a horn and axe are carved. Above these figures forty-five c headed nails in three rows had been drive the stone, on one side of it ten, and on the other side is eight, while below twenty of these curious still remain.”

Johnson however writes:

… it tapers to a point, and has upon one face several spike nails driven into it, and carvings as of ancient characters. The nail arranged in such an ordered manner as to them significant. First, there are 61 in a straight line from the bottom upwards at intervals of 2 inches in midline; and next, at about a distance of 4 inches on either side of this, and from same level on top, two parallel lines of 31 each running downwards and curving bel meet those of the midline. Then in the between these three rows of parallel line about the level where they converge, is found most conspicuous of the carvings.

Fatunbi, commenting on the Oranmiyan obelisk writes, “There is the image of a trident made iron spikes on the obelisk,” but Williams and their 1998 article do not pay much attention to the nail design on the obelisk, they just write one side of the staff are some faded carving in explicably there are some nails driven into it and it is glaring that there are discrepancies in observations of Dennett and Johnson Oranmiyan obelisk. The total numbers of nails seen on Oranmiyan obelisk by both of them do not tally apart from fact that where Dennett sees “horn and Johnson sees “ancient characters”- Resh Yod. The fact that one sees horn and axe the other sees “ancient characters” does mean that the characters engraved on the Opa Oranmiyan are not hieroglyphs – but Resh and Yod. Commenting on one of the characteristics of hieroglyph writings Siculus writes:

“Now it is found that the forms of their take the shape of animals of every kind, the members of the human body, a implements and especially carpenters’ tool their writing does not express the int concept by means of syllables joined to another, but by means of the significance objects which have been copied and figurative meaning which has been improve upon the memory by practice. “


I am sure you know the yorubas were not Egyptians as some people thought on this forum because unlike Egyptian obelisk, the Yoruba obelisk of Oranmiyan lacks a pyramidion – the g electrum at the top of an Egyptian pyramid has a unique design Dennett in 1910.

Slideboom in 2011 notes that around 300 the ancient Egyptians had ways to write numbers. They made one vertical line for on vertical lines for two, and so on up to nin ten, the Egyptians made a U-shaped mark 100, the Egyptians drew a coil of rope, a 1000 they drew a lotus flower. They used as to show 10,000. In the Oranyan obelisk, the shaped for ten and the double U-shaped for twenty are not shown while Resh and Y shown on the obelisk.

I am sure you know that the Semitic - Hebrew were the one known with ‘Resh and Yod' in the early years because the alphabets were discovered in 1905.


Secondly, the Yorubas have not fought over being identified as Hebrews with Ibos at any time because our history and tradition aren't linked together as some people always think on this forum.

Thirdly,kindly pay no attention to whatever any one think or say either in Europe or Tony Blair's wife as such opinion dies a natural because archaeological, historical account point to the Black Jews as being Real . Beside the old testament made mentioned of these things and the commandment was to bring these people back as part of the Israelis,who had been dispersed or migrated to different part of the world before and after 500BC



Cheers

baby124:
Lol. On my own side of Yorubaland it’s the same as theirs. I already explained that clearly but you are still arguing blindly. You know better than their Ekiti family?

Kindly read some information on twin from a twin too in Culture / Re: Traditional Yoruba Names And Their Meanings by BTT.




Cheers.

Happy new 2019 in some hours from now in Gregorian calendar year, to the following people and the ones I cant recall their monikers. Wishing all of you good health and bountiful success :
brodalokie, goodnessme1, Aaya, Ennyforeal, minasota, ZianaJordana, OlaoChi, Moorish, Yinxies, 2mch, Kira290, MetaPhysical, 0balufonlll, Obalufon, BabaRamota1980, absoluteSuccess, Dominicanese, Mztarstrechy, Tamarapetty, lovelygurl,Christistruth00, Hati13, ib0221, mascotblaze, jupiterx, KingSango, Konquest, rhektor, isalegan, Bibi294, ibkkk, dassy65, aljharem, MrMaestro, tosyne2much, nisai, Henrydone, dasilver20, MadamT, naijalander, malvisguy212, Malolu, Born2Breed, wurabecca, Mobilia, seunowa, Benite, deomelllo, 2prexios, babydioku, adeboizy11, Florblu, bossy512, dumie, Neozy, Leriebloom, Dollyak, pweetiedee, NegroNtns, farotimitajudeen, dealslip, ghostofsparta, chkil0, Auntielinda, fanficgirl, ihatebuhari, Sammy07, NNVanguard, tripplephi, souloho19, Lawlahdey, lx3as,totit, arinze2015, T8ksy, disumusa, Mathano, gentlegenius, adebisiema, LadyAnn,Metroescobar, tammie24, virud, Nostradamus, ehissi, yinkusbabe, kbams241, sagebiz, IBGigs, Doller2




Cheers

baby124:
My Ekiti/Ondo twin friends who I just asked their name confirm that the Kehinde name is fully omokehindegbegbon. Is Ekiti and Ondo not Eastern Yoruba?

As long you can't capture the meaning of the name but claiming your Ekiti twin friend say so, just showed you didnt do much research on how the name was derived as if your friend are the only born to be twin. Beside, your friend being twin, has nothing to do with his interpretation of the meaning of the name. Despite Ekeindegbaegbon is referred as the usurper,kindly verify the reason To-aiyè-wo is called Taiye Lolu!

As I had mentioned earlier, omo is a name that is used often among Yorubas. So do research on the meaning of,‘ omo' before you this claim of yours which is actually incorrect because you say Ékéìndègbàégbón or Ékéìndègbàégbón is wrong, which only exposed your understanding of Yoruba names,its diminutives and meaning.



Cheers.

baby124:
Ejire’s panegyrics below does not specify a name, they just praise the circumstances of their birth. This is the Ejire Oriki below:
Oriki Ibeji:
Ẹ̀jìrẹ́ ará ìṣokún.
Ẹdúnjobí
Ọmọ ẹdun tíí ṣeré orí igi
Ọ́-bẹ́-kẹ́ṣé-bẹ́-kàṣà,
Ó fẹsẹ̀ méjèèjì bẹ sílé alákìísa;
Ó salákìísà donígba aṣọ.
Gbajúmọ̀ ọmọ tíí gbàkúnlẹ̀ ìyá,
Tíí gbàdọ̀bálẹ̀ lọ́wọ́ baba tó bí í lọ́mọ.
Wínrinwínrin lójú orogún
Ejìwọ̀rọ̀ lojú ìyá ẹ̀.
Tani o bi ibeji ko n'owo?

The traditional names for twins in Yorubaland are Taiyewo and Omokehindegbegbon aka Taiwo or Taiye and Kehinde.

Well, I am familiar with oriki Ibeji as you do. And the traditional name you tried to describe as Taiyewo and Omokehinde is not the actual way the archaic Yoruba call the twin because everyone is omo this or omo that person in each family one represents. So the way you portrayed it isn't the way I learned it.

Honestly, it seems you have a particular dialect in your mind which is Oyo as the main yoruba dialect which is wrong because there is never a SUBJECTED Yoruba dialects but differences in accents . In other word if you think Kehindegbegbon is correct then you are unfair sir because all the dialects speakers still maintain their dialects even if they do speak with Oyo accent, which is done mostly in cities.In effect,it is incorrect for you to claim you know Keinde meaning as you make us think you are the only one that's familiar with such name because people can decide to call their children's name according to the archaic means of pronunciation which is eminent in many ways people write out their names.

Before taiwo became diminutive in nature ,it was described as ,‘ Omo -to-ko-to-aiyè-wo(the one who firstly tasted life ). While Kéhindè/Kéindè was; omo- e -ke-in-de-di-egbon(gba-egbon)-( the one who came from behind to become the older/usurper). Mind you gba (take/collect in this context) or di-da (becomes in this context) can be used interchangeably. So therefore Ákeindé/ Ékeinde/Ékeyinde/ÉKehinde mean the same thing as Kehinde which is a gradual diminutive of the name.

Finally, we have to be open-minded because Yoruba language is broader than the way we think, which is the reason I have discovered many words which many might think we Yoruba borrowed these instead of few being shared through contact while these people were the ones that have Yoruba words as loaned words in their lexicons.




Cheers

baby124:
It’s omokehindegbegbon. Nothing like ekehinde that I know of. This is a name well known to me.

If you say so. But such as omokehindegbegbon is not in Yoruba's Ejirè's panegyric. Beside this, I hope you know oyo Yoruba was not the oldest Yoruba dialect. Infact, Eastern Yoruba dialects remained the oldest and many other affiliated olders dialects.


Cheers.

baby124:
Kehinde is not Ekehinde but omokehindegbegbon. That’s the full name which means the child who stayed behind while Taiwo was sent to explore the world is the elder. The last to be born of twins is the older twin in Yoruba culture.

Well, it may seem right before you but it is ekeinde or Ekehinde gbegbon and not omokehinde gbegbon when it is being used as a panegyric by the people to praise Keinde or kehinde as a spite to showcase who is older in terms of Yoruba interpretation of twin.

In fact, twin praise is indivisible. And Omo is a universal word for a child in yoruba context ,be it noble birth,slave birth,servants,one that's brought up etc in Yoruba lexicon.So let us not over flog the meaning...

lawani:
but it is clear enough that ancient hebrew is kemitic egyptian, the sun is aten in kemitic egyptian. Since hebrews lived in Egypt 400 years they acquired that language. A pharaoh was named Akhenaten just thesame way people bear akinogun or akinosun nowadays

I don't think so nor do I agree to such insinuation because the language do look alike but the early Hebrew developed differently with a different God who wasn't a man nor related to any man. The same way Yoruba's Almighty God is and was seen as not a man in any form.

And Akhenetan's meaning may not necessarily mean the same as the early Hebrews or Yoruba's Akinogun or Akinitan because cognate of such is called False Cognate, being the reason that they sound alike but different in meaning. In fact , Aki/Akim is an old Semitic name which is said to mean ,‘hero' and not only related to Egyptians or Kemitic meaning.

googi:
I do not want to incite hatred against those that conquered Africa but we refused to learn that Bible and Koran stories are domination tools as a blueprint for the rest of the world to follow.

Any deviation from it is "uncivilized", so African with our huge complex fall in line and model our culture according to theirs.

This discussion, fight or argument between Egypt and Hebrew is embarrassing to say the least. It is not about the DNA, the first language, culture and people that come from Africa but the other way round.

The atrocities committed against the natives from Americas, Asia and Africa to enforce these have faded in the minds and brains of the victims. No wonder they cry against China for persecuting foreign religions which ironically can never measure up to their lynching and collateral damages still perpetrated as smart bombs today.

So what is new about their new elected leaderships voted for by over 80% of their highly religious RAS lot?

The greatest misdeed of many of us is simply classification of all, the new slogans of white people. So ,it is unfair to lump people who desire to rule over others for selfish reason and religious reasons and those who want to guide the world through their knowledge of one God,which is by a choice. Clearly, if you don't now this, the tradition of rituals, Masha, Ameyn etc are all Yorubas. It is unfortunate that the Assyrians and Persians are the one teaching us our history and reconstruction of our language..This is where we've missed it .


Contrary to your believe, the Hebrew at no point fought for selfish reason nor the Yorubas but survival of the fittest. And before such fight is embarked upon, Ephod — IFA is consulted . And as at today, the Hebrew don't control the world but the Assyrians, Romans, Persians. In fact, the hebrew hid their religious knowledge until Jesus directed the Hebrew to preach the knowledge of one God. Kindly verify before you condemn everyone. Do you know the Hebrews were the most killed and oppressed ethnic Race? Do you also know Britain is an Assyrian kingdom? Kindly do research on it

lawani:
When the hebrews escaped from Egypt they were speaking kemitic egyptian but in Canaan they lost that language to a semitic tongue. We are speaking kemitic egyptian today and we got it from egyptians not hebrews. When the Egyptian empire fell, the Egyptians trekked down here

1. If you claim we speak Kemitic, why is Orun(Sun) not in Kemitic lexicon but presence in both Yoruba and early Hebrew? And Yoruba of today still held strongly to many Hebrew words

2. Why is ba not in Kemitic lexicon but appeared in both Yoruba and Early Hebrew?

3.Why is Yoruba sculpture classified as Middle East. origin?

4. Why is the Ooni sculpture holding a ram's horn and not present in Kemitic world?

5. Why is Opa Oranmiyan not Kemitic hieroglyphs but Early Hebrew alphabet called Resh/Reish and Yod/Yud?

6. Have you read that Bantu parted away from Yoruba over 87,000 years ago on genetic study?



Bro, it s not about being distinct from rest Africans but Who were the ancestors of the Yorubas which has always been the puzzle. Lastly verify my question very well with evidence nd not opinion to counter them all.



Cheers

bluke:
u said no but gave a more detailed analysis of what i said.
oduduwas presence changed the language fro which other ethnic groups got theirs, pls do away with this linguistics issue.
the ugbo of ondo were from old, are u saying they speak like other yoruba groups.?

I never said , Oduduwa and followers were not migrants but clearly state that Ugbo were the first set of migrants with no kingly status but council of leaders, spiritualists, Herbalists,warriors etc from which one is appointed as head, even if there is sensationalism by different writers to present ILEIFE as very organized which was not true before the arrival of the new people who were educated in the ancient scientific knowledge. And at the arrival of Ooni, (a title existed before Yoruba land in Nigeria) ,through descending via Ora Hill in today's Yoruba Land in Nigeria) . These new people settled down in the midst of the older settlement and a Priest-King emerged.

And on the language, what I am saying is that their language were related and prototype even if there were modification via accents. The Oyo was a later formed kingdom,

lawani:
what I want you to realise is that ancient hebrew is thesame as kemitic egyptian which Yoruba is

No sir, they are not because :

1. The Egyptians didn't exhume the dead but only Yoruba and Hebrew.

2. Egyptians mummified their kings,unlike Yoruba and old Hebrew that don't mummify

3.The Egyptians had an image of God with a man as havingbram's horn unlike Yoruba and Hebrew who had a formless God

4.The Egyptians do not wear caps like rabbi's cap unlike Yoruba and Hebrew

5. Egyptians do not pour water on the feet of a bride about entering her husband's home unlike Yoruba and Hebrew.

6. The Egyptians have no culture which make the younger ones prostrate to older man as a form of salutation as Yorubas did and do and old Hebrew did .

As you can see Yoruba aren't Egyptians but lived in that land while traveling through down to the forest zone in West Africa. In fact, go verify what was ‘one(1)' called in old Hebrew.



Cheers.

bluke:
the ugbo people of ondo state still speak the old yoruba language known as ede ife (ife language)
the current oyo yoruba were the migrants that changed the language. that could be related to hebrew or asiatic language.

No sir, because they spoke related language. The difference between Oyo dialect and the rest Yorubas is that Oyo's dialect stretches the lexicons while most other dialects retained the archaic pronunciation though with little modification as migration from one base to another.

If you read what I posted that quoted, you will realise that whatever language these people spoke was overran by the migrants group,if you use the hypothesis that is involved in linguistic analysis of a community. Invariably, the migrants groups had more multiple birth than the first settlement. Such names as Usere-Oba-m-akin-Oba-t'ala-(Osan)gangn are names found in Semitic language even if some meaning aren't cognate.

Take for instance, the Opa Oranmiyan is said to be an inscription in Middle-Eastern Letters that archeologists have accepted as corresponding in sound to “Oranmiyan”( Reish/Resh and Yud/Yod).

If Opa Oranmiyan and Ogun stone are said to be connected to Middle East, doesn't it show who they were? It is as simple as ABC. In fact, the inscription on the Opa Oranmiyan by the grace of Élédáà can be interpreted.

lawani:
but what are you saying? What we speak today is it kemitic egyptian or ancient hebrew?

Linguistic analysis of of a language of a community; Dominant, Subordinate and Monolingual

A typical profile of a speech community (A— Cushitic/Kemitic) in contact with another group (B—Yoruba/Hebrew), is that if ( A— Cushitic/Kemitic) is dominated by (B—Yoruba/Hebrew), the language of the community then change from monolingual (A—cushitic/kemitic ) to bilingual (Ab—Cushites/Kemitic & yoruba/hebrew ).This mean that (A—Cushitic/Kemitic)becomes dominant,while B— Yoruba/Hebrewb becomes subordinate). If AB— Cushite/Kemitic & Yoruba/Hebrew ( A—Cushitic/Kemitic and B—Yoruba/Hebrew becomes equals ), then it becomes aB— cushitic/kemitic & Yoruba/Hebrew( A—cushitic/kemitic subordinate ,B—Yoruba/Hebrew becomes dominant) i.e If Both language are spoken on equal basis based on the contact of the former group and new comer group to the community, it then becomes (‘A'—Cushitic/Kemitic ; the older community is a subordinate while the new comer group ‘B'—Yoruba/Hebrew; becomes dominant and finally to monolingual B—Yoruba/Hebrew

These three types of bilingualism may be described as,’ ‘Supplementary '( AB—Cushite/Kemitic & Yoruba/Hebrew ; in which B— Yoruba/Hebrew is only an occasional ,‘Hilfssprache', for specific purposes).

‘Complementary'( AB—Cushitic/Kemitic & Yoruba/Hebrew ; in which the two alternate according to important functions in the speakers lives),

and ‘Replacive'(aB— yoruba& Cushitic/Kemitc; in which A— Cushitic/Kemitic has become only a language used with older people while B— Yoruba/Hebrew fulfils all the important functions). Another set of terms might be inceptive, functional and residual,when these three types are seen as historically ordered in a transitional bilingualism.

Invariably, the Yoruba language is old Hebrew,even if there are borrowed words from other groups. Thus the formula above is the way Yoruba language invaded Ibira land,Edo,some Tapas,ibos, etc that mixed with Yorubas through bordering towns.


Note: The book written by ‘Einar Haugen,Ecology of Language', will be helpful.

lawani:
so because Shepherd is in our vocab it means our people were nomads? The ugbo are called omo atorunwo, children of those who landed from outer space. Even the Bible in Genesis talks of people landing from outer space

Shepherd staff is Opa Ashe in Yoruba land. Hence Yoruba were nomads but not in the form of the ones you see today which you see among Fulanis. The nomads are the ba alawos, princes, warriors, citizens etc. In fact, the old Hebrew didn't rear animals as you might think inform of wandering about like the herdsmen but take them to places for feeding and stray them back to their base for another time.

Ato'hun rinwa is not about Coming from the outer space but a distant land. Unfortunately, it is a derogatory word used on some uncultured strangers who want to lay claim or feel superior to the indigenous people that owns the land the strangers lives.

The giants you mentioned are not specifcally about outer space people but born giants on earth by people who were Godly but became wicked . Have you not seen in the days of Jesus when he said, ‘You are gods'. Is this different from the son of gods? So, If you read the Bible in the context of literature book, then you will interpret it from the angle of bestseller but if you can read it carefully and understand the Bible from the spiritual angle then you will see it as a sacred book and its figurative speech will make a meaning to you.


Cheers.

bluke:
no bro
u have half caste

No sir, three generation of darkskin person can't be called black or half caste anymore but white because it is only the first generation that can fit properly to half caste. Hence some white yorubas in Americas etc. In the same way a white skin person either man or woman married into a dark skin family will become a darkskin after three generation e.g the late Bob Marley's father was a white man but today,the descendants of Bob Marley are darkskin people.

lawani:
what you refer to as ancient hebrew is kemitic egyptian which is what yorubas speak today by over 50percent of vocabulary . Hebrew is a new group by far junior to yoruba

Your are absolute wrong because the last word I shared isn't a LEXICON FOUND IN EGYPT . In fact ,Oru(heat) emanated when Yoruba ancestors appeared in IRAQ (OR/UR of Mesopotamia) before migration took them to the land of Ai(Aiyè).Let me inform you that the Yoruba ancestors arrived the land of Kannan and captured it. Hence they intermarried with the earlier settlement of people of they captured

lawani:
since people landed from outer space our people have been living in towns under Kings, there was no time our people followed cattle about like the bororo do today. We were never nomads

Well, No sir, because the Yoruba ancestors who developed the idea of survival theory through their invention knew the complexity of the world. Unfortunately you and others underestimated the word of ‘SHEPHERD' . DÁ ÉRÁN is an ancient Yoruba word and without yoruba ancestors being Shepherds,such lexicon will not emanate. Beside, advanced knowledge of ancient Yorubas made them domesticated some animals during the olden days. Have you suddenly forgotten this idea?

Infact when the Yoruba ancestors were domesticating animals and rearing them ,others didn't realise there were difference between the hunting and rearing. You see ignorance has made a lot of people see things with over spiritual eyes because there is nothing like people from outer space. In fact the most archived information in Ifa Corpus does not have anything as outer space of Yoruba people but migration information.

lawani:
kemitic egyptian is ancient Yoruba language, it is not a matter of loan words. Heritage and not dna determines who we are, this is why we now have white Yoruba people in South america

lawani,ancient Egyptians weren't one ethnic group but an empire like today's U.S.A , Old Russia, where different ethnic group lived for one reason or the other.

Let me make you see yourself as the ancient Hebrew man with this word lale(night). The well interpreted early Hebrew language by unbiased western Hebrew linguists who dedicated their time to the knowledge of reconstruction of early Hebrew.


The revelation is that no other group speaks this early Hebrews and ancient Ishmaelites in Africa except Yorubas ....

lawani:
People came to join the Yoruba people but there was no time the Yoruba were nomads from the inception of time to the present moment. There is no such account in our oral history or in the Ifa corpus. The Yoruba were never nomads

Stop it Sir. The ancient Yorubas were nomads. Being nomads has nothing to do with barbarism. If you doubt, why remigration outside of ILEIFE? Ponder over it.

lawani:
I mean we are indigenous to West Africa by I believe over 70percent of our dna. The people that mixed with us were egyptians not hebrews

Are you looking for dna to support your view? If yes, then , you have missed the point because yoruba dna carry different dna pool. Let me ask you four simple questions:

1.Did all the words I have posited are loanwords of Yoruba people? And kindly explain your reasons.

2. Do Yoruba people in North and South America have absolute dna link with Yoruba in West Africa? If not ,do you now understand what location and intermarriage could bring?

3. Who were the ancestors of Yoruba with such strong immune system that carries 8% ghost dna not found in other people in West Africa? Teach us what we don't know.

4. Who were the Yoruba ancestors in west Africa that had knowledge of keloids to the extent of having panegyric for it ? Kindly share

Lastly, donot underestimate the Yorubas because the Yorubas you are from know who is who amongst them, even at the deepest intermarriages that had lasted 100s of years.


Cheers

googi:
Olu 17,

As usual, thank you very much for all the information you always provide, not only on this topic but over the years.

Sometimes I wonder where we disagreed.



I am sure you must have heard or read that Oduduwa brought a staff, a crown and some markings on his body to prove that he was returning home. But I also realize that these are mostly oral history which is not enough for many of us.

At the same time, I can rely on your scientific reference to come to the same conclusion you did as quoted that Yoruba (Africans) came back home from Egypt, Sudan, Ethiopia or Mesopotamia.

There were always people in the rainforest. If these are the people Oduduwa met, it does not negate the claim by people like Prof. Abimbola that the world started from Ife.

My point is that various locations of Ife to the present location is closer to the origin of man than Egypt or Israel Africans love to cling to.

Again, with all respect.

I heard what you had heard about Odudua,as regard his, staff,Cockerel, crown, which I have studied so keenly to realise these things aren't limited to the Yoruba worldview but the world at large. In actual fact,there has been limited knowledge by the inventors of different version of Western Nigeria's ILE IFE because of the oral account known to us isn't enough for us to accept these versions that has so many flaws . Although these different version narrators have been helpful because there are information that has been helpful in diagnosis of Yoruba history from migrants perspective.

Part of the storyline,was that the Oduduwa group's descended through the HILLS and their Lexicons such as Ikan(ekan-one), Ora,Ra,Ira,etc are also not only used in Yorubas West Africa located land but significantly used in Egypt and Ancient Hebrews land-Middle East. As you can see,Yoruba people oral history narrators can't claim Oduduwa and group as being aboriginal to West Africa because it doesn't match!

Once we all realise that even the Yoruba is not located directly under the equator, so certain claim that weather affected the archeological buried earthenware, can always be put on hold because such information is not true which has always made the Western Researchers looked at the information being provided on Yoruba history as inconsistent from Yoruba historians perspective.

On the close proximity of the first place of mankind has always had its leeway because the oldest fossil humans has always being around Tigris and Euphrates rivers; Ethiopia-Mesopotamia. The reason not farfetched being through archeological finding on the bones of humanoids found in these vicinity knock off the local claim by Yorubas. In fact, oral accounts says Yoruba gave birth to white ancestors through a lineage in ILE IFE.

As far as I am concerned, honesty and hard work is what we all need in unraveling this myth and the oral account that has become tough for a lot to unravel especially by the scholars that could not match the reality and the corresponding myth. As radical as I am, dealing with reality is always my school of thought on this our national Yoruba's worldview.

From this storyline of Oduduwa as stated orally as descended from the Hill fit in into the Ivri people; a people that descended through the Hill people( English's reinvented word as Hebrew),which sometimes ,it is called ,‘pass over'.

My question to the people that have read books from the perspective of Yoruba historians or historians are:

1. Can two different group of people be different but have same philosophical approach toward ‘HILL' ? Yoruba and early Hebrew uses ‘Hill', figuratively for God because it shield through the God's protection.

2. Can Urim and Orum(ela)be the same root word without being from the same proto family and language ?

3. Do you know ‘ Aré' - ‘Zare'in transliteration is the word for crown in early Hebrew?

4. Do you know Àdè does not mean crown in classical Yoruba but Àré ?

5. Do you know Àdè was associated with crown due to development of Yoruba language and its connection to royal through the method of wearing it by king(s)?

6. Do you know IshèÒtà became collapse/diminutive into Òtà is corrupted word for satan in English ?

7. Do you know the staff which Ooni carries was carried by early Hebrew which represent Shepherd and Royalty?

Below is a screenshot of Lamed alphabet that signify staff of authority with its pictograph.

Trust me Sir, all these above are same words with Early Hebrews...

Cheers

KingSango:
The royal class of East Africans were extremely tall. Oduduwa was said to be over 8 feet tall. The Ife people were shorter in stature. Oduduwa brought with him the staff of Queen Sheba, still kept in Ife, which was how come he was received so well. That was until the waves started coming and friction begun with the two groups. Peace was only made when Oduduwas people joined the Ogboni which originated in Ife.

Quite an assertion but which ethnic group in that East Africa came with such tall powerful personnel and his migrants colleagues that brought civilization to this part of West Africa?

Which East African ethnic group use the word ‘Orisha' or ‘Risha'(ancestor) which is a closely linked name with Yorubas ?

Which East Africa ethnic group use ofo/onfo(fly) as found in Yoruba language?

Which East African ethnic group have Ogun (warrior) in their historical setting as seen in ancient

Which East Africa ethnic group in East Africa had a knowledge of migrants outside their shore ?

On the Ogboni issue, it is a relatively modern unification of the distinct groups as a result of the disunity amongst Yoruba. It was formed for a reason.

googi:
Well, sometimes reasonable people do agree to disagree respectfully.

What is it that disqualified West Africa as part of the old world from being the original birth of Yoruba but new world far away full of hostile people that drove them away; is their original birth place.

I would have thought that the Oloko, Aromire and Tokunbo were great adventurers, traders and seamen that explored new world but never forgot their way back home.

Didn't Oduduwa present some three proofs to demonstrate that his people were originally from Ife?

Yes, you do have a strong case on disagreement amongst wise ones to agree based on mutual respect.

And as for the disqualification of West Africa as the birth place of the old world is basically on radio carbon and other facts such as fossil, habitation of these places even with claims that didn't pinned many ethnic groups to West Africa as their foundational birth place of origin.Even people who use genetic study through researches via dna which claimed Yoruba descendants have E3B and V12 male haplotypes, etc. Most Geneticist say that the haplogroup E3b (M35) seems to have come from East Africa but from there was carried to the Near East, then to North Africa and Europe. Today it is commonly found in such places as East and North Africa, and the Near East around the areas of the Mediterranean.(http://www.hebrewigbo.com/scientific.html) E3b  -   These were some of the first farmers who spread across the Mediterranean (http://noel.mcn.org/GeneticMigration.htm)

E-M215 and E-M35 are quite common among Afro-Asiatic speakers. The linguistic group and carriers of E-M35 lineage have a high probability to have arisen and dispersed together from the region of origin of this language family. Amongst populations with an Afro-Asiatic speaking history, a significant proportion of Jewish male lineages are E-M35. Haplogroup E-M35, which accounts for approximately 18%  to 20% of Ashkenazi and 8.6% to 30% off Sephardi  Y-chromosomes, appears to be one of the major founding lineages of the Jewish population. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_E-M215_(Y-DNA)) V12 haplotype - E-V12 Found in Egypt, Sudan, and other places. Has an important subclade E-V32 which is very common among Ethiopian Oromo, Borana Oromo from Kenya and Somalis. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_E-M215_(Y-DNA))

This sub-clade of E-M78 is the one which appears to have split from the others first (it arose ca. 13.7-15.2 kya. According to Cruciani et al. (2007), E-V12 likely originated in North Africa. Undifferentiated E-V12* lineages (not E-V32 or E-M224, so therefore named "E-V12*" are found at especially high levels (44.3%) in Southern Egyptians, but also scattered widely in small amounts in both Northern Africa and Europe, but with very little sign in Western Asia, apart from Turkey. These E-V12* lineages were formerly included (along with many E-V22* lineages in Cruciani et al.'s original (2004) "delta cluster", which he had defined using DYS profiles. With the discovery of the defining SNP, Cruciani et al. (2007) reported that V-12* was found in its highest concentrations in Egypt, especially Southern Egypt. Hassan et al. (2008) report a significant presence of E-V12* in neighboring Sudan, including 5/33 Copts and 5/39 Nubians. E-V12* made up approximately 20% of the Sudanese E-M78. They propose that the E-V12 and E-V22 sub-clades of E1b1b1a (E-M78) might have been brought to Sudan from their place of origin in North Africa after the progressive desertification of the Sahara around 6,000–8,000 years ago. Sudden climate change might have forced several Neolithic cultures/people to migrate northward to the Mediterranean and southward to the Sahel and the Nile Valley. The E-V12* paragroup is also observed in Europe (e.g. amongst French Basques) and Eastern Anatolia (e.g. Erzurum Turks). (http://www.thefullwiki.org/Haplogroup_E1b1b1a_(Y-DNA))

From the above researched work, it showed some migrants moved out of Africa to Middle East for greener pasture and conquest purpose through a form astrological knowledge and somewhere along the line,t the Yoruba ancestors dominated these lands through their unique revered knowledge and parted again from these people when other competitors had acquired close knowledge of Yorubas. Thus the hostilities arose out of the complex knowledge that these new world order acquired that made them more into adventurism and weapon production,which made Yoruba ancestors left these lands to regrouped but with an everlasting footprints.

Oduduwa's case you mentioned isn't as it seems from within Yoruba land because the name Dhu Nawas appeared, in the ancient Arabia in Medina as a Jewish King. And there are too many linguistic connection between Middle East's Ancient Hebrews than the Arabs with Yorubas. Furthermore, name of the man that founded the dynasty that has sustained the ILE IFE was not Oduduwa but his own ancestral forebear. The orikis(panegyrics) of Oonis are key to breaking this codes because certain names and words are found in Midday East lexicons, such as the Ancient Hebrews,Aramaic Arabs,Egyptians. Paradventure you want to share the three proofs you are referring? Kindly share these three proof because I can't understand what you meant.After all,we Yoruba didn't fall from heaven.

Note:
@lawani, I hope you can see we arent indigenously to West Africa but due to adaptation and weather affected the Yorubas. If the Yorubas are under a climactic condition that's more friendlier, the Yorubas would have a different dna that's closely linked to that environment.


Cheers

lawani:

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hebrews lived in Egypt for four hundred years speaking kemitic egyptian. Celts in Britain got their language changed to English by Germanic migrants but they remain 70 percent Celtic by dna. Same is true of Yoruba. We are west african

No sir, because West Africa isn't a tribe or an ethnic group. If it is by light skin,the Hebrews won't accept the falasas-Beta Israel ( black jews) as ancient Hebrew. You see,the most intriguing aspect, is that the history of Hebrews that left Soudan were over 300,000 in population. And these people left around 500 BC etc before other migration took place.

lawani:
[code][/code]ancient hebrew would be kemitic egyptian which is the ancrstor of modern Yoruba but that does not make Yoruba hebrew

Well, what I have shared has been as a result of grace of God but know it that the ancient Hebrew lived in Egypt for over 400,000+ years according to biblical information and archeological evidence testified that ancient Hebrew lived in the land of kemet. And if ancient Hebrew group lived for such years in Egypt , wouldn't such people understand part of Egyptian language? If you understand this, you will realise that the Yorubas are not from Western Africa origm

googi:
Olu17,

I have no doubt that you are a well informed scholar.

But trying to ram Jewish or Arabic basis by anyone as the descendants of Africans is horrifying.

Solid scientific, especially genetic and archeological evidence point to middle of Africa. Unfortunately, you and others are reversing it in your claims despite the fact that most of you are highly informed or educated.

I am yet to see an Arab or Jew that formulate as hard as some us do to link their language or base to Yoruba, Igbo or Hausa.

What is wrong with us?

You see, the Jews are the ones that are the one looking for lost tribes of Israel. And it has been documented on books , journals written to such effect and these information litters the Internet even from the site of Hebrew people's history. So it is quite funny that you feel that something is ‘wrong with some of us' as you have stated it.

The Falasas-Beta Jews don't speak the ancient Hebrew language but today they are in Israel land. Funny enough the ancient Hebrew language was discovered in 1905 ,so it is a relatively new knowledge to even the whole world because the spoken language in Israel was Roman-Latin-Greek influenced and not ancient Hebrews. Mind you, some historians had said Yorubas once lived with Between Egypt and Ancient Hebrew...This was a times even the Siniac Hebrew alphabet had not been discovered.

The British explorers knew that the Yoruba were Hebrew, but they kept mute because, there was miss in the link of Yoruba history. And the missing part of the history is what the historians,archeologists,linguistics are looking for to seal this Yorubas connection. Clearly, the liars or the ignorant amongst Yoruba are the ones denouncing this claims. The Oranmiyan hieroglyph/pictograph is an Hebrew inscription, which is the reason I will make my instructor to interpret it unless it is not it is not an Hebrew written word. In fact, it is the simplest interpretation by the grace of God

lawani:
wadai in central African republic is ife oodaye and it is older, ife in igala is older too. We still have many ifes like amadzofe and mawufe in Ghana and etc of the gbe people

IFE in Wadai ? I have would prefer you share such link because I haven't come across such except people who came through IFA's-AFA practises. I know Ouidah (Wydia ) in Bénin Republique and it is fÔn group territory and their language isn't intelligible to Yoruba language's speakers. And every other Ife was after ILE IFE in Nigeria.

bluke:
pls i need an ecopy of infakul maisuri by sulthan bello. will appreciate your assistance, thanks
canonbj66@gmail.com

I am sorry I don't have it in full but a pdf .The journal I got was a pdf through Jstor. Perhaps, you can get through: https://www.google.com/url?, https://www.google.com/url?q=http://digitool.library.mcgill.ca/thesisfile75991

lawani:
fossils don't keep well in West Africa because of the climate and there are many ife sites scattered across West Africa. The present ife is not the most ancient one.

If you say so although I disagree because fossil human found at Iwo Eleru wasn't exposed for its radio carbon date not to be verified. And I hope you know that the word ‘Oru' (heat place/land ) was not firstly used by Yoruba ancestors in West Africa but in Middle East, which is with saame meaning in middle East and its precise location was in modern day , Iraq before migration of these people took them to Ai(Àiyé) and otther places in Ancient Israel. If you have location or places in West Africa that has same cognate with this Yoruba word,kindly share.Though there are people who claim to bear such name in Nigeria but the meaning is different.


Cheers

Since you have mentioned shifting of location of ancient ILE IFE, then, kindly post ILE IFE that's older than ILE IFE of Nigeria in West Africa

Africaman:
Oh okay. I was just reading and following the arguments. I probably need to re-read the whole thread.

Here's one more link from the bbc: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14947363

ciao

"[The skull] has got a much more primitive appearance, even though it is only 13,000 years old," said Chris Stringer, from London's Natural History Museum, who was part of the team of researchers.

"I do not think that these findings add anything new to our view," said Prof Clive Finlayson, director of the Gibraltar Museum, who was not connected to the study.

The view of Prof Clive Finlayson clearly says it all about , the finding because the fossil human as primitively looking as it is doesn't have a match with other places with over + or - 200 thousands years of existence within Africa or Middle East..


Thanks anyway,