₦airaland Forum

Cohomology:
It seems Jonathan may be like the rest of the goats that have been selected as presidents of the failed state called Nigeria.

When Nigerians come here to talk about Nigeria as if anything makes sense in it I wonder.

Nigeria is INCAPABLE of progressing politically as presently constituted.

Jonathan would be a fool to allow himself to be killed or ousted just because Nigerians can't think or accept the truth.

All he needs to do is protect himself in office and rule for as long as he wants. That's all.

SapeleGuy:
Sahara reporters has stood by its story and named names. It's down to the presidency to disprove this article.

Nairalanders, let us strive to tell the truth all the time regardless of whether the person is from 'your side' or not. That is the only way we can move forward.


http://www.saharareporters.com/real-news/sr-headlines/6353-president-jonathans-140-strong-delegation-to-canada-sr-stands-by-its-story.html

lol! I bet you the 140 delegates would eventually play a role in the president's PDP presidential primaries.
That is how the game goes in Nigeria.
Frankly I would not expect probity from Jonathan. If he really wants to win next year or stay in office, there is no other way. Nigerians can never understand probity from him. Probity is alien to Nigeria at least at the very top; it just can't happen.

I have said it before and I would repeat it, if I were Jonathan, I would rule Nigeria for ever. Nothing will happen.
All you need is allow the stakeholders to eat. That's all.

I'm still waiting for that development plan for the Eko Atlantic City.

And I won't accept mere 3D images which even a novice can throw together using Google sketch up and CommunityViz software. I mean solid planning methodology answering development questions and phases of development , i.e. PLANS (not dreams ) and programming.

For the semi literate folks here, there is a difference between a plan and a vision. A plan has actionable information and data (dimensions), a vision does not. The closest thing to a vision (envisioning) is a perspective.

I bet you they would respond with more insults.

Quote from tpiah

anyway, @onlytruth

what gives you the impression the project is intended for run of the mill ajepako nigerians such as constitute 98% of nairaland?

Damn! How did I miss that yesterday? 

^^^

. . .yet another Youtube video. .

naija people sef. Na wa.

trueword:
If that infomation that he is claiming which would make the project not a fraud isn't available, why was the Eko Atlantic City team be at the Economic Summit in Lagos this year with a booth to inform investors about opportunities? I guess they are there to decieve more people on their project which supposedy has no plans. give me a break.

You two are just too much.  Which non-government projects in the world have ever costed  $100 billion?

Believe me I am really interested in this project. The $100 billion was my professional "gestimate". It could cost less, but certainly not $3 billion. The problem is that when no one can give you details of this type of project in Nigeria, a wise man would be advised to stay away.
I'm not out to diss anyone, just asking for actionable information.

[quote author=paddy_lo link=topic=469173.msg6284886#msg6284886 date=1277526521]U and Kobo are Dumb and Dumber . . I have asked u before and i will repeat it

where in the world has a land reclamation project cost $100billion dollars?

When was the last time JP Morgan,Wells Fargo and PNC bank came together to jointly finance a fraudulent construction project in a top American city?[/quote]Any Nigerian can put up a website and list whatever he likes claiming partnership or funding with any bank in the world. We've seen it over and over before.

You are a goat by the way.

trueword:
Did the developer tell him personally that the project will only cost $3 billion.  Someone that has even the slightest clue about the potential cost of a massive project like this will know that the nigerian newspapers didn't do a good job of accurately telling us what the $3 billion was for.

Don't put words in my mouth. Did i say that the people should not have details? No i did not. if you would stop having amnesia  I said that the info he is looking for is probably not online. If he is really serious why doesn't he take his investment team to the office of the project and ask for the documents he wants.  All companies are not the same. just because something isn't publisehd online doesn't mean they are not real and serious developers.

Excuse me?

[quote author=paddy_lo link=topic=469173.msg6284878#msg6284878 date=1277526194]@onlytruth

I doubt u are an investor,because most of what u rant on above have clearly been done before the Project reached this stage
For example the engineering works,levy/soil tests was done in the netherlands way before construction began

It is clearly shown there on the website

By the way no-one is begging u to buy into the project ok . . as u clearly cannot afford it
$3000 for a plot of land in Nigeria. .
u must be talking of zamfara not lagos[/quote]And you claim to know more about Nigeria than I?

I never said I was an investor (though nothing stops me from being one).

You want me to go to Netherlands to obtain project details for a project in Nigeria. Are you even thinking at all?

You don't have a clue about investor mindset.

[quote author=paddy_lo link=topic=469173.msg6284861#msg6284861 date=1277525652]As far as i am concerned i have disproved his False claims. . If the most expensive reclamation in the world(The dubai Palms) costs $12billion

where does your pally get $100billion from?

Its funny u can excuse [b]his pulling his figures from his behind [/b]while u continue rolling and hitting your head on the floor. . lol

Just give it up,you and your sidekick are not making much sense with your mindless arguements tonite[/quote]You know you are a thorough ediot. I thought you had something in your head before. How wrong I was.

Keep deceiving the gullible.  

By the way $3000 can buy me a plot of land in Nigeria; a very good one at that.

@Kobojunkie

Thank you.

I was actually shocked that some nairalanders I previously had some modicum of respect for actually turned out to be airheads.  

Similar projects around the world have at least PDF documents detailing the planning and development methodology down to lot/plot level complete with figures -sustainability data (energy/power supply, water supply, waste management plans/greening), property sizes, building "envelop", intensity (eg area vertical/horizontal square footage or meters/lot), agreements, land use/ zoning,  density, traffic analysis zones (TAZs) based transportation planning, detailed yearly population projections up to 30 to 50 years into the future using cohort component analysis or linear regression modeling. Since the project would be entirely on reclaimed land, detailed or summary engineering soil/levy analysis.  

Even without financial plan details published, the above would at least tell the professionals that the project is real and well planned.
It is the professionals (investors consultants) that advise investors to move in or stay away.

Even if you don't publish, have it handy.
Put up shitty information, you get a shitty review from the consultants and the real investors would stay back, allowing fools to rush in.

Anyway, I'm out.  

[quote author=paddy_lo link=topic=469173.msg6284118#msg6284118 date=1277510589]U see the Building i showed u above. . Thats the Information centre in Lagos. .

Am sure if u go there u will get all the info u need. . .

The website is also updated regularly,so i dont know what u talking about
It has updates as of April 2010 on it

again this project like i told u is not about bragging rights.  .If u got money to spend
then go to lagos and buy a plot.  .if not stop throwing a tantrum like a baby. . .[/quote]Why are you determined to throw insults when none is necessary. I challenged you to post concrete data and you have instead resorted to insults. I don't want to add you to my list of Hediots on nairaland.

Why must an investor first visit Lagos before conducting a preliminary study on this project?
I would rather use the $3000 return ticket to buy a plot of land elsewhere.  

Meanwhile I'm out of this now. . .

[quote author=paddy_lo link=topic=469173.msg6284067#msg6284067 date=1277509872]@onlytruth

why not go to the website i gave u,and stop making a fool of yourself. . .

This project is being financed by First bank,Guaranty trust Bank and First city Monument Bank

see link again. . . .

http://www.ekoatlantic.com/about/aboutus_partners.htm

I guess those Nigerian banks,Listed on The Nigerian stock exchange are also trying to defraud u?

Finally how can someone defraud u,when u have not bought a plot there
or did u pay for a plot and werent allocated one?. . .u are funny[/quote]Believe me I have been to that website and more.  I have actually made phone calls, sent emails yet nothing came back.
I own a company that is involved in such projects and I was proud that one of such would come to Nigeria, but alas, I came out with nothing.  

Anyway, I would say this one last time.

And I must add that the most important thing about plans is the finance. You tell me that a project that should cost $100 billion is estimated to cost $3billion, I smell a rat.

What would cost $3 billion anyway? Dredging? Sand filling? Building the 7 meter hide sea wall? What exactly?

I am an AMERICAN and we don't do things based on someones statements. We must have facts, concrete facts, not dreams.

And I must add that the most important thing about plans is the finance. You tell me that a project that should cost $100 billion is estimated to cost $3billion, I smell a rat.

What would cost $3 billion anyway? Dredging? Sand filling? Building the 7 meter hide sea wall? What exactly?

[quote author=oyinda. link=topic=469173.msg6284012#msg6284012 date=1277508941]haba come on. what does fashola have to gain from making such stuff up?
and what do the foreign companies have to gain?

yea it will cost more than $3 bill. and paddy lo has already mentioned that that's only a small part of it.
i think lagos will be borrowing money for the project.

only an insider can post all those data your requesting obviously.  we can only post youtube videos and watch the optimists and pessimists post their replies. and u clearly know which band u belong to  [/quote]Fraud is very easy to spot.  

Similar projects around the world have solid information on them posted online so that investors can appraise them and make informed decisions. Why is this one shrouded in secrecy?

I suspect this is a mere breach front reclamation exercise being packaged and sold as something more.

The essence of plans is to have a complete vision of the project - a detailed vision. If the vision is incomplete, have can we know when we attain it?

Believe me I actually did a study on this project with high hopes, was actually bragging about it to friends here in the states only to be thoroughly embarrassed when I came up with nothing.
Nigeria is a very funny country. We don't know how much we embarrass ourselves.

^^^

You are still posting Youtube videos. Since when did videos make for detailed planning and development plans?

I challenge you to direct us to a website or a brick and mortar building where to obtain CONCRETE DATA on this project.

FL Gators:
I'm impressed by the way Fashola presented his project.

A lot of thought has been put into this, I can tell.

I did a special study/research on this project and I can tell you that for now it is all dreams, dreams and no concrete data and plans. The most shocking information I got was that the entire project would cost about $3 billion. When I got to that stage I knew something was seriously fishy somewhere because there is no way this project (if implemented as being presented) would cost less than $100 billion.

I challenge anyone with concrete financial, statistical, demographic and planning data or sources of data to post them here.
I bet you there are none.

OP

Why are you trying to deceive people here? Why are you posting a three month old news -stuff that happened even before Jonathan was made the substantive president?
What is your intention here?

Here is the original news:

11 March, 2010 05:29:00

MMA OGU, EMMA OKEREKE, OWERRI and KALU OKWARA, Lagos

Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) chieftain, Senator Francis Arthur Nzeribe has urged the military to stage a coup if it thinks the environment was ripe for such.

Nzeribe who said he believes that Nigerians have committed acts that could bring soldiers back in government in the past 10 years of democracy, described the performance of the three arms of government the legislature, executive and judiciary as a tale of woe.

In a press briefing yesterday in Owerri, Imo State, Nzeribe said Nigeria has entered into a constitutional trap that will prove difficult to come out from.

"The nation’s relation with the military is precarious. We do not want them to stage a take over. Yet we keep on committing the same acts that make coup plotting a profitable venture. My position is that the military should strike if they think the environment is ripe for that. Who are the people turning the screw from the background? We talk of the cabal. Which cabal? The bubble will soon burst", he said.

He said Nigerians are experiencing fatigue and apparently getting bored with democracy and heading consciously and unconsciously towards "what we know better to live with: Military dictatorship."

Citing some examples, he said: "Dr. Goodluck Jonathan was proclaimed Acting President through a fiat by the Senate. Isn’t that a precedence that may haunt us in future, even when cognizance is taken of the amendment of the contentious section 145 of the constitution?

"Only last week, we witnessed another shocker. The Federal Executive Council suddenly dropped every idea about debating the President’s illness, a function that it is constitutionally obliged to carry out. And we are clapping our hands. My humble view is that we have entered into a constitutional trap which may prove difficult to come out from. We have inflicted a fatal injury on our democracy".

Nzeribe therefore described the praises on the military for protecting our democracy as blackmail.

"Which democracy do we want military to protect? Does it not worry us that the same military we were abusing only 11 years ago, we are now praising to high heavens not for going to war and excelling but for agreeing to look the other way while we fornicate with the innocent democracy. For how long will the military take all these praises for doing nothing?

"How long will soldiers accept praises for merely sitting by and watch as their old relatives are kidnapped in their villages and they are asked to pay ransom. Why don’t we negotiate with the military over this spate of insecurity in the country? Why cant we take them into confidence on some of the issues at stake? In those days it was fashionable for politicians to say that they should be allowed to make mistakes and correct themselves. I am afraid that argument is no longer reasonable. Do we still have room for mistakes?’’, he asked.

He said that we have bastardized, crippled, slaughtered and despoiled democracy and in the process corrupted the judiciary and now attempting to corrupt the military by showering praises on them.

He said while waiting for the burble to burst, Jonathan should carefully source young, tested, resourceful and committed men for constructive engagement in the pursuit of his challenging task.

"Our democracy has been fatally wounded by our very selves. We need to go into a period of introspection. But for now, let all hands be on deck to give the Acting President full support and to pray for the full recovery of President Umar Musa Yar’Adua."

Meanwhile, political parties, including Action Congress (AC), Citizens Popular Party (CPP) and All Nigeria Peoples Party (ANPP) yesterday condemned the call by Senator Nzeribe for the military to take over the government in view of the current leadership crisis rocking the nation.

National Publicity Secretary of the AC, Alhaji Lai Mohammed, while condemning the call, dismissed Senator Nzeribe as a non-democrat, who does not love Nigeria.

He said: "In a nascent democracy, mistakes could be made and be corrected because it is a learning process but for anybody to call on the army to come and take over power means that person is not patriotic and is not a democrat.

"We do not support that the army should take over because they have their constitutional duty of protecting the territorial integrity of the nation.

"For we know, Senator Nzeribe is seeking attention, having been forgotten for a long time. So, Nigerians should ignore him and his call."

In his own reaction, the National Chairman of the CPP, Mr. Maxi Okwu, said Nzeribe was a demon of democracy in Nigeria and should be condemned by all right thinking Nigerians.

He said it was the same Nzeribe, through his Association for Better Nigeria (ABN) that scuttled democracy in 1993.

"Military rule is out of fashion and Nigeria’s experience in military rule is that from General Aguiyi-Ironsi to General Abdulsalami Abubakar, the labour of the nation’s heroes was completely destroyed. Generals Ibrahim Babangida and Sani Abacha unleashed the greatest damage on the nation," Okwu said.

While enjoining the military to reject the call, he acknowledged that certain mistakes had been made, stressing that it was the duty of Nigerians to democratically correct those mistakes and forge ahead.

Also reacting, the Director of Publicity of the ANPP, Chief Emma Enekwu, while flaying the call, said the military should be concerned with the constitutional role of protecting the territorial integrity of the nation.

"Military take over is to draw Nigeria backwards that is why nobody talks about that globally.

"Democracy is thriving all over the world as nobody wants to go back to the dark days of military rule and so we do not support Nzeribe’s call for military intervention," Enekwu said.

http://www.champion.com.ng/index.php?news=29021

Moderators please lock this thread.

FL Gators:
Well, I'm not shocked. What a shame.

The Ohakim guy is a scammer.

It is like we say in my town, "whenever a dibia wants to scam his unsuspecting victim, he requires him to obtain and bring along -as part of the ingredient of ritual- the stomach of the tiny yellow ant called 'danda'. "

FL Gators:
ROTFLMAO!!!! Oh dear!

Yeah. I bet you if these morons are made to face this type of caning say everyday for about 6 months while in jail, they would be reformed beyond recognition within one year.  
We should have a "chastisement chamber" in jails built specially for them.

Befitting punishment


[flash=560,430]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxt9zwkUKFM&hl=en_US&fs=1&[/flash]

FL Gators:
I hear that sjeezy8 recently took a trip to Lagos.

I'm crossing my fingers that . . . anywaz, pray the judge goes easy on him sha

I won't put it past that guy.

I swear this is the best punishment for these guys.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxt9zwkUKFM

mens dept:
Yes indeed, you hit the nail there, but suppose that the election was rigged? PDP would know what to do, and in fact they did what was in their political strategy: To seed governor house to APGA in Anambra.

Afterall, why tip the boat when Obi can only do a little here and there. PDP still effectively controls Anambra and includes in it's rank a Compromised APGA. But let's see what happens next year.

Last time I checked the governor was implementing his APGA manifesto and his ANIDS, none of which are PDP products.
Let me tell you, PDP is being tolerated in Anambra state, not the other way round. People are not just fed up with PDP, they are militantly opposed to it.
If you say that the PDP controlled federal government allowed peace to reign in Anambra by allowing peoples choice, you would be correct. But don't make it seem as if Anambra folks are PDP lovers.

mens dept:
@OnlyTruth


Well what can I say. At least your response is well thought and actually makes some sense

However, how long will Igbo people use the Biafran Experience as the reason for their decline?

You say Igbo people have done self help. I guess you are saying Imo+Abia people funded and built their own airport and it's functioning and  In Onitsha you'll find many Igbo doing marveloussly' well despite the pollution and overcrowding situation.

But that could not have happened unless you had some form of good leadership (i.e. Mbakwe, Obi). Even now, there are those who want to be "given opportunity and positions and a fair playing field".

But this is Nigeria/Africa, and nothing is given for nothing, especially when your leaders/people are more interested in managing instead of their right to civil life.

While observing the body language of Igbo politicians these days, I must say that they have improved in many ways.
For starters, they are mainly calm and working in the background, which is why the PDP chairmanship thing came and passed without much noise about it.
When Ralph Uwechue ascended the Ohanaeze presidency, one of his biggest criticism of Igbo politicians was that they talked too much and bickered openly. He frowned at it and recommended a rather quiet, subtle and behind the scenes approach to politicking in Nigeria. He was right.
That is why it is incorrect to interpret Igbo lack of noise on the political scene as a sign of lack of direction.

@mens dept

I don't understand what you meant by "In the case of Anambra state, a compromised and weak APGA was actually "given" the governor slot". If I'm not mistaken, HELL would have broken loose in Anambra if anyone dared rig that election.  
Lots of community organizing and mass mobilization went into that election. If you doubt me, let's hope that Jonathan sticks to his promise to organize a free and fair elections next year. Let's see who among the current thieves would be returned to office.
It is a  no brainer. Thieves never won elections in any part of Igboland, even council elections. All the ones that "won" those elections actually stole them.  

mens dept:
@OnlyTruth

and what is your "solution" on this thread 


The thread statement was " If we must respect the zoning arrangement, then we can as well divide Nigeria"

If we must respect the zoning arrangement, why cant we ensure that leaders are held accountable. If we divide Naija why cant we ensure leaders of those "countries" are held accountable.

You divorce one girl because she spent so much of your money, only to be single and spend more than you can afford to, dosent make sense.

Imagine a useless Orji Kalu ruling in the new Biafra, only for Anambara folks to start mess, or Rivers people fighting and all, because we separated from Naija without fundamentally changing our mentality first.

So how would an Orji Kalu find his way to Biafran leadership? How would he even win a local government election in Biafra when the system would not be designed by his Hausa/Fulani allies?
Mind you that a Professor in the caliber of Charles Soludo lost the gubernatorial election in Anambra state.
You seem not to recall how we chose our leaders in the past. My people say that "it is only a foreigner that does not know the man with scrotal elephantiasis. All locals and kindred know!"

mens dept:
@OnlyTruth


It would be arrogant for me to say I have the answer to Igbo/Nigeria problems. I don't and in fact it would take more than my mere words online to generate that an EPIC CHANGE. So I won't like many here claim to be an expert.

But what I have in the meantime are opinions, and to begin the so-called 40 years of domination in the East is a cheap way of concluding the Igbo plight as of today.

Are Igbo people the only people in Nigeria to fight and lose? What about in throughout the World (Germany, Japan, Mexico, Vietnam)?

Stop blaming Nigeria for all your woes when some of your people are more interested in speaking Yoruba, business contracts, etc., instead of attending OHANEZE meetings that at the end of the day will issue a useless COMMUNIQUE.

There doesnt have to be an Igbo assasination of an Igbo by an Igbo to say our leaders love each other. There's political/economic/social assassination and prostitution happening there in your LGA, and it doesnt have anything to do with the War Victors. When in Abia, OBJ asked us about Orji Kalu, and said people should not be asking him (OBJ) about funds, but their governor as to what he's doing with the federal allocation+NDDC change, what happened to the Inland Port Project, Aba Roads, etc.

Look, I would be naive if I expect you to say here exactly what you would do for Ndigbo if given the chance (assuming you are interested in doing something in the first place, criticism is always cheaper ), however, even at that, your general attitude towards this "problem" can advise a discerning mind of your true intentions.
I have seen too many Igbo who are mostly interested in demonizing their own people and still turn around to claim to be better. This is a public (worldwide) forum , and things you say here are VERY IMPORTANT. I weigh my choice of words here very carefully.
In my book, one of the biggest enemies of Ndigbo are those who come here to open their mouths too wide. Believe me Ndigbo are not really the worst self defeaters in Nigeria. If we were, we would not have survived the civil war and still be where we are today. Most, if not all of our achievements in development -social, economic, infrastructure and education, are products of self help. Mind you we have caught up with even those who never saw a bullet in their region.
When you say the civil war has nothing to do with our plight today I marvel at that level of naivety. Everything we lack in Igboland today is as a result of the civil war we lost -International airport, Water port, River Niger bridge, federal government roads and other facilities. Igboland has been turned into a land of scavengers. So, reducing our plight in Nigeria to mere political positions is really glib.
I don't care if we never hold any elective office; just give me what others are enjoying without fighting a war over them.

mens dept:
For some of you guys that just speak without thinking, you will find that sentiment can be a dangerous thing

The zoning arrangement was in fact a popular tool used by leaders that be to rule Nigeria without rocking the boat. OBJ used it in the 70's to double promote YarAdua to have a "Muslim" deputy. IBB the same with Ukiwe, Abacha as well, till the present date.

Of course it is not in the constitution proper, but obviously part of Naija's history. What is also part of our history is that all the states that some of us are bragging about are creations of MILITARY DICTATORSHIP (except for the former MIDWEST REGION made in a "democracy". Now with all the mess, we have managed to sustain all of that with 6 zones, in which the major parties have agreed that positions should be rotated, even at the state level where in IMO STATE, ORLU zone is fighting OWERE and OKIGWE zones for who should be governor lol.

So breaking up the country because we have six zones doesnt erase our problems. We need good leadership and courageous men and women.

So we should stick to zoning and continue infinitesimally? Abi

Why not zone your family and do rotational head of household too?