₦airaland Forum

y'all mofos were laughing at the Americans for developing a copy of the RPG... well, its finished... and its glorious!

- Service life of platform increased
-- American version:1000 rounds
-- Russian: 300

- New effective range: 900m
-- Russian effective range: 300m

- New ambidextrous pistol grip (Russian version right handed only)

- New lightweight version: 3.5Kg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsh4ESxR2iw

Who is laughing now

bidexiii:
Hmmmmm......

I see turkey changing positions......

Sooner or later the turkey will not allow the United States to make use of its air & ground space, there relationship with the United States is going sour especially over the US disagreement to release the mastermind of the coup.

How am i changing my position?

Henry240:
Turkish troops are NATO troops, whether you like it or not, that's a fact.

They are not representative of NATO training, and what few NATO standard men they had were fired in the purge

Turkey has fired hundreds of senior military staff serving at NATO in Europe and the United States following July’s coup attempt, documents show, broadening a purge to include some of the armed forces’ best-trained officials
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_57fe20abe4b0e9c70229e93d

gottfried21:
Same way U.S Navy seals "advising" in Syria are wearing PKK patches

Those are just regular Americans who just joined PKK

US operators only work with YPG

America doesn't like Communists

Henry240:
It's a NATO army.

Yes.

Because after 15 years of combat in 2 different countries and over 2 million men deployed we know that NATO troops frequently abandon equipment on the feild

Turkish conscripts do not represent Western professionals

Stop trying to equate the two. It's pathetically transparent.

andrewza:
http://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/detail.asp?smallarms_id=377


Says made from surplus.


Surples ammo is just old ammo. There are plenty of companies that make all kinds of 7.62mm ammo of all kinds of grade.


PMP actually makes ammo and i know our old ammo is either shot up, sold or disposed. We may not produce accurate rounds for mass production but a DMR does not need that. It is not a sniper rifle.

You can hit a target at 600m with a fal with out much change. The round is prety accurate


USMC are moveing tge M249 to company level the M27 is moving to the squad level IAR


en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M27_Infantry_Automatic_Rifle


It a stupid move in my book that they will regret

Lol that's the same source I was basing MY argument on

To my mind surplus just means standard ammo, perhapse not the correct use of the word, but you know what I mean. Fact remains, you will have to buy specialised ammo and neither RSA or big has the budget to do so (apart from SF)

I know a DMR is not a sniper rifle, it's a marksman's rifle. But 600m is still a tough shot for a semi auto and the FAL simply doesn't get the MOA unless it's a brand new build. Sure, If you are bench shooting it's no problem... But out in the field? No Bueno!

I didn't know about the M27... Thats just retarded... Marines: first in, last to think

andrewza:
The EBR are made drom surples they not new builds.


The M14 had tge same issue's it still gets the job done and why will it fire surpless ammo. 7.62 nato is still in production world wide.



That prety much all you need. Itva marksmen rifle not a 2000m sniper rifle. You typcaly shooting people in range of the assult rifle maybe out to 500m.


Again some see the SAW as usless idea and the IAR is not dead. Even use 50 round mags to make a R4 in to a IAR the USMC use a IAR. The brits droped there IAR because it could not do suppressing fire.




There is no such weapon that does it all good enough.

Yes, the EBR is a new build - basically any source will tell you this (hence the EBR designation, the surplus ones have another designation that I can't remember).

They are also using M118 "special-ball" not M80 ball (surplus) as ammunition.

As for surplus, the problem is that we (and Nigeria) will not be buying tailor made ammunition, we will be using surplus stocks. The idea is that you use a rifle that is accurate enough that you can burn surplus and still get a decent MOA.

Yeah, EBR is designed for ~600m. M.O.A of 3 is a huge adjustment for 600m hence the problem with the FAL. At 600m you are dealing with an MOA of <6 on the EBR, at the same distance you are dealing with an MOA of 18 to 36 on the FAL


Pretty sure the USMC uses the m249 for SAW. Interestingly lack of supression was the major flaw with the BREN as well... Too accurate for its own good.

tdayof:
Read carefully again. chinese standard OEM laws means the product is Chinese.

So you are saying the JF-17 and FC-1 are one in the same?

Odunayaw:
if it could hold its own since 2015 without being a pain in d patella
then who cares if the poles abandon it

If the Ak47 could hold its own since 1945 without being a pain in the patella then who cares if it's abandoned

Shoot for the stars. Be ambitious.

Henry240:
You make the Galil in South Africa and call it the R4, it doesn't mean it's not a Galil, it is still a Galil.

Apples and oranges

Do you think Chinese companies would let Pakistan make money off their IP for fun?

It's not Chinese. Deal with it.

Henry240:
Dude, give it a rest. The guy who uses it confirms he is okay with it. He also confirms his mates share the same view. That's all that matters.

We already have the FAL in huge numbers. Adding polymer and a scope would improve general efficiency and outlay instead of simply discarding them.

For SAW, the platform is already uniform, with units taking in more modern and lighter variants but all still chambered in the usual 7.62x39mm.

Pictured below.

1. Still confirmation bias, he hasn't handled anything else to compare it to. If you had been driving a 30 year old beetle you would think a 20 year old VW polo was just fine

2. PKM is a GPMG not a SAW, RPD and RPK are 7.62 SAWs both are obsolete.

3. Accurized FALs are only a stop-gap solution. Most military grade FALs get an M.O.A of 3, at best, (realistically we are talking 6) their bolt assemblys are too tight, free-floating the barrel doesn't help because of the piston and then there is the fact that most barrels have had thousands of rounds through them - they will never be tight enough for accuracy. To truly accurized it you would have to have a skilled gunsmith spend hours and hours on each individual gun.

Henry240:
Nomenclature, the JF-17 is a Chinese plane, we all know this.

No, it's Pakistani

Hence it has a different name and is sold by a different company

Odunayaw:
rest this sh1t
u would pay for the rifle right?

the army picked what is tested and trusted

The army held trials for the beryl?

Because the pols are in the process of abandoning it (FB MSBS)

gottfried21:
I read somewhere(I think it was Defenceweb and a few other sites) that Zimbabwe is also interested in acquiring the FC1 "fighting Dragon"

They can only afford to feed their soldiers one or two meals a day

Not going to happen

Henry240:
Deathmachine has cleared this one up. He said himself as well as his colleagues are satisfied with it.

The FN-FAL should go to that role of DMR.

Confirmation biase, hence irrelevant

One platform, multiple roles, means logistical superiority and simplified training practices. Would you also like different guns for the carbine and SAW role?

Henry240:
@Deathmachine, probably must have fired the rifle, he's probably the best person on here to give a verdict on the weapon.


We don't use the BREN either, besides we specifically wanted something that fires the 7.62×39mm, the BREN only fires the 5.45×39mm.


I find the building of rifles to be a waste of resources. Especially when there are multiple available options.

It's just a question of numbers. What I am saying though is that BREN, as an example, is a "modern gun" in that you get options like switching the barrel to change roles (so you can turn it into a carbine or marksman variant easily)... Stuff like that

As for 7.62... Meh despite what Kalashnikov himself said, 5.45 gets better ballistics and is lighter

TrueHeart365:
same kit doesn't equate training.

the russians have proven to be more effective in combat unlike the western SF who have inly won against terrorism on cnn

(Implying the Kurds and Iraqis aren't making huge advances)

I got a number for you to call:

555-COME-ON-NOW

Henry240:
I think building that Rifle is a bad idea though. In my opinion. Anyway, it would be nice to have all our troops equipped with the M762 in the long run.

Too expensive, too top shelf for regular use. Beryl is also silly, it's an aging platform

Something like the CZ 805 BREN is the only real option if you want to invest in the manufacture of a modern rifle

Henry240:
You can take this argument to the technical discussion thread.

You can stop sh1tposting in this one

Henry240:
the Leo has performed completely hopelessly in Syria. When we compare the Leo2A4 against the T-72B in Syria, the T-72B has performed flawlessly.


The conflict in Syria proves my point yet again, expensive doesn't mean effective. I'm sure the Leo2A4 is at least double the price of the T-72B or T-90.

1. Dude wtf are you talking about, T72B has been getting eaten since day one

2. T90MS is 4,5 million, you can get a Leopard 2A6 (not 2A4) for 2 million... Some Leo 2a4s have been sold for as little as 1,6 million

Your bias is blinding you, it is allowing you to say idiotic things

Henry240:
I have not forgotten. I also agree with the part in bold. However, I find the fact that you're trying to rewrite history as irresponsible.


Anybody reading your comment would think Turkey is new to NATO, whereas Turkey along 13 other countries are the founding members of NATO. Turkey joined the alliance in 1952, that's 64 years ago.


Turkish tactics represent the tactics of NATO, this is an undeniable fact. They are the second largest NATO member and one of the founding fathers.


My WWII correlation was simply to show that the US conscripts just as much as Turkey. You think if the US were to engage in battle with Russia or China, there won't be conscription?

Henry

When was the last major NATO exercise that Turkey was involved in?

I don't think you understand what NATO is

Henry240:
The US army was also conscript in WWII and Vietnam. Turkey's army represents NATO for sure, you can't deny this. They are the Second largest NATO member.

Ww2 has nothing to do with this

It is simply ludicrous to say that the non-professional Turkish Army represents the professional NATO armies

Have you already forgotten about NATO deployments? Turkey has lost more tanks in a week than the British lost during the entire Invasion and Occupation of Iraq.

jakeporeshenko:
Off topic post

Meanwhile they are getting their asses handed to them, ohh well eventually they'll learn from their mistakes and begin to get things right. Turkey has a power military industrial complex so they can handle the losses.

The tank crew in fury didn't get ass-fvckes by some guys with beards wearing flip-flops

Henry240:
Turkey having the second largest military in NATO is an advantage, however their surgeon into Syria seems to suggest their are gaps in the quality of NATO training.

Don't for a second try to pretend that Turkeys Conscript army is representative of NATO

africaken254:
even hezbollah used effectively ATGM systems to hunt Israeli infantry,during their occupation of southern Lebanon and during the 2006 Lebanon.i have seen hezbollah videos of dismounted israel infantry walking alongside their APC's,startled when their APC suddenly get hit by AT-3 Sagger anti-tank guided missiles.there are also countless other videos of syrian troops startled when their vehicles or themselves are hit by ATGM

If the infantry are standing next to it, then they aren't screening it

africaken254:
how! it seems your not understanding the kind of environment i am talking about ! at which distance can you see with you Mark 1 eyeball! your carrying a G-3 rifle with a range of Effective firing range 500 metres,how effective are you going to be against an ATGM ! so did saddan with his countless T-72 tanks during Gulf war 1,the russian thought their numerical advantage would help them in the first chechen war campaign but ended up being a disaster

Because officers and SNCOs tend to have the MK2 Binocular, while infantry tend to carry HMGs and mortars around with them... Not to mention that they could just ask the nearby tanker to borrow his 120mm

Saddam's losses were due to incompetence, Russia's were too

Henry240:
** I'll like to correct an error i made a couple weeks back on the size of Turkey in NATO. I initially said Turkey has the 4rd largest military in NATO behind the US, UK and France.

Actually the Turks have the 2nd largest military in NATO, only behind the US.

In my opinion, Turkey deploying Tanks and IFVs, without large scale Infantry was a very bad idea. Syria sits right on the border, the idea of copying Western partners in sending only SF is a bad, terrible idea. Not like their Special Forces have been effective anyway, i mean, when compared to the Russians, the other SF units operating in Syria seem to be a bunch of over-pampered babies.

The Turks would eventually take Al bab, but the losses we are currently seeing could have been avoided.

The Turkish army, like most M.E. armies, is a meme

It's "coupe-proofed" to the extent that there is basically no inter unit cohesion

Almost all training is focused on internal supression (inside Turkey) and not on highly intensity warfare

All the best units are kept as a preatorian guard and will never see combat

Same problem with other armies in the region

Henry240:
You mean from Al Bab alone, what about from other fronts? How could they have lost 11 Tanks, 10 Leos in Al Bab, what are they even doing?

How many tanks have they lost in general, I know the Kurds killed a couple Patton tanks initially, any ideas?

Leo's are only around Al-bab, but no one really knows what the fvck is going on along the Turkish/IS front - many conflicting stories

They posted an entire troop of Leo 2's deep inside "Indian Territory" without decent infantry or combined arms support and got buttsexed with ATGMs/Suicide bombers

Turks have been completely pushed outside of Al-bab now

Retards, complete retards

Henry240:
Singapore Kinetics 12.7mm HMG.

CIS 50MG

Unique for its duel feed set up, allowing the gunner to switch seamlessly between Ball, AP or SABOT (yes, SABOT)

Singapore makes great guns, can't believe more people aren't adopting them as you can see above, further:

The Ultimax is a SAW that basically has no recoil

Sorry for off topic

But... The Turks (and their Leo 2A4s) aren't doing so well...

Henry240:
3 x 12.7mm

1 x 40mm grenade launcher

Name the 12.7, jackass

jakeporeshenko:
What is the name given to this ungodly sized riverine boat operated by Nigerian navy ?

I bet no one can name the guns on that boat