₦airaland Forum

Henry240:
Brainless white boy, or is it coloured you are?


My source is Defenceweb.co.za, talk about back firing. LOL!

You really want to get into a racial discussion with a white? Do you think that is a good idea?

Your source is an opinion peice written by a man with no naval experience (and who obviously does not know much about OP Biro)

My source is a SAN Admiral as well as a report on the tender bidding process.

You just got absolutely rekd

Henry240:
However, when it comes to the inshore patrol vessels (IPVs),
Heitman is of the opinion that[b] “the three 60 m IPVs[/b] now
envisaged as part of Biro



When you brainless zulus can get the size of your own IPVs right, you can come back for a debate.

So what you are showing us is that YOUR source cant get the size of the IPV's right, all SAN sources cite the vessel size as 50-55m

Wow, I havent seen an argument back-fire this hard in ages

.

Henry240:
A man from a country whose Navy/institutions are confused about the size of boats they claim to be procuring is talking about a lost argument.


Lol..... Hilarious!

The only confused person here is you.

You pulled 60m out of your arse... just like you pulled "Porject Biro is for only 3 ships" out of your arse

LOL - EXPOSED

Henry240:
You guys are all a bunch of confused illiterates!



You don't even know the size of the boat you claim to be getting. Multiple claims, multiple distortions feeds into what we already know is an inept navy.

First get the size of your imaginary boats right, then come back for a debate.

No, we have been consistent see the quote:

Patchesagain:
IPV to be a minimum length of 50m armed with 30mm cannon
http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6141:navy-needs-survey-ship-pvs-by-2015-&catid=51:Sea&Itemid=106

Towed sonar array tested for Biro as well as VTOL drone testing has been well documented in this thread and the other one.

Why would we come to you to look at speed boats?

first follow the debate, then comment on it

Henry240:
No, you don't!

What is the military definition?

Henry240:
[s]-The boat cannot go out to sea because it is a small vessel,

-It cannot swim in shallow waters because it is to large.


Your inept generals do not apply any thought process before making decisions. A boat that is incapable of carrying out it's requirements is a turkey.


White man with Zula brains, not to be unexpected. Nothing surprising here.



"The offshore patrol vessels (OPVs) are too few. “They are
relatively small ships and will be limited in their ability to
conduct patrols far from home without either a base or a
local support arrangement, or a support ship in company.
he stated."


Just to be clear you actually do not have any of these boats in service, nor has a contract even been signed to procure any.[/s]

- Same size as the current OPV's which go to sea all the time

- Similar size as the minesweeps that do just that.

Really? If the requirements are for a vessel of that size then it has met its requirements. What kind of double think are you applying here?

Again, you are saying that Heitman (with no naval experience) knows more than an Admiral (with over 30 years).

You lost this argument a long time ago

Henry240:
“the three 60 m IPVs now
envisaged as part of Biro are an embarrassing misstep by
the Navy and will be an entirely pointless expenditure,”

According to a man who has never served a single day in the navy


The admiral, at a briefing in late 2008, added the Navy would seek to have the Project Biro vessels built in SA, and perhaps the Project Hotel hydrographic vessel as well, if the final specification was close enough to that of the OPV to allow it. Size-wise the OPV was expected to measure between 80 and 85m in length, and the IPV 53 to 55m. "The OPV must be able to carry a helicopter. The moment you talk about carrying a helicopter, you're talking of a ship 80-85 metres. The size of the IPVs by contrast is a function of the sea conditions, available money and so forth," he said - The Navy's Chief Director Maritime Strategy, Rear Admiral Bernhard Teuteberg

.

Henry240:
[s]When We Nigerians say you Zulus are brain dead dullards, we actually mean it.



The Centre for Human Rights, University of Pretoria, UP, says
Romola Adeola is its youngest doctoral graduate. In a
statement on its website, the centre said: “Romola Adeola,
26, has set a record in being the youngest person to obtain a
Doctor of Laws degree (LLD) in the 30-year history of the
Centre for Human Rights.
Furthermore, she is only the 2nd youngest person to achieve
this in the Faculty of Law, UP, since its establishment 107
years ago. She distinguished herself by completing the LLD
in under 3 years. During her undergraduate years at Lagos
State University (LASU), she was the Best Student in
International Law.
Romola’s relationship with the Centre for Human Rights
began from her participation in the 2008 African Human
Rights Moot Court Competition. In 2012, she was selected as
a DAAD scholar to study for the LLM/MPhil degree in Human
Rights and Democratisation in Africa.

She graduated cum laude, earning two awards: the Kéba
M’Baye award for the overall Best Dissertation and the
Victor Dankwa prize for the Best Performance in the
module: Human Rights in Africa. Her excellent record earned
her admission to the Centre’s doctoral programme in 2013.
In her PhD thesis, she analyzed the obligation in article 10 of
the African Union Convention in relation to the Protection
and Assistance of Internally Displaced Persons in Africa. She
has given interviews, presented papers at international
conferences and been the voice of the Centre on issues of
internally displaced persons, migrants and refugees. .


During her time here, she led the Disability Rights Clinic and
served as Alumni Coordinator. In this latter capacity, she led
a campaign calling for the release of prominent Swazi
human rights activist – Thulani Maseko, and raised funding
to support his family.
She attributes her success to her supportive parents,
personal discipline, perseverance and prayer. In her words,
‘be faithful to God, be true to yourself and be of service to
humanity.’ She also holds two diplomas from Åbo Akademi
University.”


Source: http://www.trezzyblog.com/2016/02/26-year-old-
lasu-alumnus-emerges.html


Cc: Agaugust, Lezz, Iblawi[/s]

Brah please.

- One of NASA's youngest engineers
- developed a brand new rocket fuel
- has a planet named after him

Went to school with him, top lad.

GET ON OUR LEVEL FAGGIT

Msauza:
Your Navy is weak.


SA Navy has:

"●4 Frigates brand new

● 3 Submarine

●10 Survey ships brand new

●80 Landing Ship Tanks

● 200 OCEA FAB, brand new

● 800 Stealth mine destroyers brand new

● 800 IPVs

●1 600 OPVs to be delivered.

All in all we have 200 000 ships


It is damned good to claim, hey.

Dont forget the 15 Zumwalt destroyers we ordered

Henry240:
Address the question. Do you people even know what an IPV is?

What is the military definition of an IPV?

Provide it

Henry240:
How will an IPV be 60 meters in length?...... This is a perfectly valid question.

Because of sea conditions - as confirmed by the Admiral in charge of the Operation.

IPVs will cover the current roles of the Warrior Class (60m) and the River Class (48m)

Hence the IPV will be sized inbetween these two vessels!!

While the OPV's will provide a new capability of a Frigate sized vessel for long range patrolling.

The Admiral in charge is an old white man... so that also wrecks your racist "dull zulu's" argument

[size=15pt]I think its pretty disgusting that you are having to make up stuff (only getting 3, they will be 60m) just for the sake of having an argument [/size]

Henry240:
[s]Your boat is not an IPV,


It is also not an MPV,


It surely isn't an OPV.


This procurement happens when a bunch of uneducated Zulus are promoted without assessing their mental capacity to provide the required skills to do the job.[/s]

Yet again,

You make a fallacious argument:

Henry240:
== of buying an IPV which cannot fulfill it's role requirements.
Goodluck with your bad purchase

Yet that is not what heitman said! Quote what he said!

Dude, you cant even maintain a consisten argument!

And the Admiral who runs the project is an old Apartheid Era White man... so that ruins your racist arguments!

Whilst finally, we see our selves in the position where Henry is saying that the word of one man beats all the studies and opinions of all other scientists and Admirals!!

This reeks of petty envy to me

Henry240:
● 300 IPVs and amphibious landing crafts, brand new purchased year 2006-2012

● 100 IPVs all brand new purchased 2016 Jan-Feb-Mar."

list these 400 vessels.

iblawi:
Why will 25m IPV not be useless when you think it's suppose to be used as OPVs.

Patches the glory Hunter. I don't blame you cos you guys use a luxury yacht for IPV role.

25m vessels are useless in RSA waters - sea is too rough and ranges are too long.

While the vessels the IPVs are replacing are 48m and 60m

Henry240:
Envy..... Are you high?

Have you fvcking seen our shipping industry, it is massive. Ladol shipyard is the largest in Africa. I simply have nothing to be envious about.


The navy has at-least 500 vessels across it's 3 commands.


I just want to make common sense. I'm pointing out the type of vessels your Navy intends to purchase at 60meters, is just wrong. Every other intelligent folk would agree with me.

1. Who says largest in Africa?

2. You keep saying this... but when I ask you to account for these 500 "vessels" you go quite.

3. Our Navy, the CSIR and our Maritime Research center disagrees with you.

You are quite obviously envious

Henry240:
Your Navy's own experience.


“The Navy's experience with the strike craft demonstrated
that 60 m is precisely the wrong hull length for SA waters:
Shorter and the ride is lively but dry; longer and the ride is
more comfortable and dry. At 60 m it is uncomfortable and
wet, with real risk of damage in rough seas. Remember how
many of the strike craft found themselves inadvertently
doing a submarine crash dive imitation in rough seas."





Even for an MPV, an ideal MPV is between 45m - 55m length.

Ok, so it says the ride is rough - but where does it say it cannot meet mission requirements?

Talking out of your arse as usual, no doubt motivated by burning envy

Henry240:
Your navy claims to be buying an IPV, what's the essence of buying an IPV which cannot fulfill it's role requirements.



Goodluck with your bad purchase. Which actually doesn't exist.

Who says it cannot fulfill its role requirements?
One man when the whole navy and an independant think tank set the requirements!

Henry240:
50- 60m is a ship. According to your defence requirements it is a bad choice.

According to the opinion of one man.

The requirements were set by the Navy after exhaustive studies by CSIR and our Maritime Think Tank.

Little speed boats like the Shaldag are useless in our vast and rough waters!

Henry240:
It isn't a question of putting anyone to shame. Your military yet again goes to the market and procures the wrong type of equipment.

A 50m vessel is completely useless as an IPV.

Who says it is completely useless?

The vessles also have to operate as minesweeps (hence the sonar array) and the River-class is 50m

Henry240:
Patches, do you guys in South-Africa even know what an IPV is at all?


This was what heitman was complaining about months back. Your Navy ends up buying boats which cannot go offshore to sea and simply cannot patrol inshore. More or less a waste and a Turkey.


The average length of an IPV is 25m. Look at the shadlags, NNS Dorina, Andoni class, Burutu. Class, Ocea class. All designed to effectively carry out littoral warfare.

More or less an MPV with IPV characteristics.

agaugust:
Yes

Citation please

agaugust:
...because you have none, or you have Shaldag interceptor class of boats?

Your source says OPV and IPV, no MPV, means the 50m vessel is actually an MPV, almost a small corvette size, tbat's not an IPV by standard classification even NATO countries use 47m as MPV not IPV.

VTOL craft? You never even got any OPV yet ! The drone will land on empty sea water?

Towed array sonar, for what? There is NOTHING like that in the source you posted, SHOW US SOURCE for your never-to-arrive 23 years on paper OPV and IPV having anti-submarine towed array sonar, show us sources to prove that !

I am waiting for your towed array sonar evidence.....now !!!!!

We have the T-craft which suits our needs. Shaldag type craft is useless in our need for long range patrols in rough seas.

Well, our IPV is over 50m and has a 30mm gun... puts you to shame.

Who said anything about ASW? I said towed sonar array, it does many things. Its testing and evaluation has been well documented on this thread and others.

VTOL is being evaluated for use on the IPV's since they are too small for helicopters.

South Africa is not like Nigeria - we do not buy threadbare, scaled down, entry level vessels. We go for quality, not quantity.

agaugust:
[s]You posted old fleet. We have a huge brand new fleet.

● NNS Centenary brand new stealth

● NNS Unity brand new stealth, delivery 2016

● NNS Zaria brand new stealth -not stealth, tiny

● NNS Burutu brand new stealth -not stealth, tiny

● NNS Dorina brand new

● NNS Andoni I brand new

● NNS Andoni II brand new, delivery 2016

● 1 Survey ship, construction starts 2016

● 1 Landing Ship Tank, construction starts 2016

● 9 Shaldag Interceptors, brand new

[s]● 6 OCEA FAB, brand new

● 60 X-38 Stealth combat catamarans, brand new

● 300 IPVs and amphibious landing crafts, brand new purchased year 2006-2012

● 100 IPVs all brand new purchased 2016 Jan-Feb-Mar.[/s]



Even NATO envies the size of our new fleet....and Indian navy cannot resist signing the long term joint maritime patrol operations with Nigerian navy, they cannot find any other navy like that in Africa.

Please remind your SAN sailors not to overstay their one week visiting visa to India, tbey do not want you there more than those few days after which South African navy becomes useless to them. Don't follow Nigerian navy men around in India, we are staying long term, our level is higher than yours.[/s]
.

1. We are talking about ships not boats

2. Most of those do not exist

3. India did not sign any patrol treaty with you

4. We wont stay long in India, we are going on to China for more exercises And dont worry, India will be back in RSA next year for the next ISAMBAR exercise

Its really pathetic how Nigerians are so desperate for glory that they make such huge mountains out of such tiny mole-hills

agaugust:
[s]Egypt has the largest and heaviest defence industry in Africa, they produce thousands of Abrams tanks, thousands of missiles and artillery, they also produce vehicle and aircraft engines, and tens of thousands of heavy calibre munitions like howitzer and mortar shells, tens of thiusands.

South Africa is overhyped.[/s]

Egypt builds abrams tanks?

agaugust:
[s] About a total of 2 billiion Rands to be paid by SANDF to the team of 100 mechanics from tiny Cuba that teaches your army engineers how to repair vehicles your overhyped South African defence industry built inside your own backyard !!! Shame !!!

100 Cuban mechanics X 360,000 Rands X 3 years...add free house, free transport, free mobile phones = about 2 billion Rands total project cost of Cuban mechanics team.

Show me a Zulu mechanic that earns that much in his life time !!!!![/s]

Still cheaper than the private sector

agaugust:
[s]60m IPV ? Even the great Shaldag Ocean Interceptor is abiut 24m only ? When standard MPVs measure about 40m ? IPV with towed array sonar that ASW Frigates struggle to carry ? Are you cräzy ?

Okay SAN has not bought IPV in 30 years so you need to travel to Nigeria to see what a standard IPV looks like.[/s]

IPV to be a minimum length of 50m armed with 30mm cannon
http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6141:navy-needs-survey-ship-pvs-by-2015-&catid=51:Sea&Itemid=106

Towed sonar array tested for Biro as well as VTOL drone testing has been well documented in this thread and the other one.

Why would we come to you to look at speed boats?

Henry240:
Now you have to prove Andrew called me out. Provide that evidence.


* what he said is, anytime i need to corroborate my story, i should call(mention) him, he would support me.


Project Biro is nearing no completion.


How is your 50% obsolete fleet?

Nope.

You said he agreed with you.

Onus of proof is on you. I find it strange, why wont you substantiate this claim?

All evidence shows Biro is nearing completion, or did 80 companies bid on the tenders for fun?

Just fine - it is fully operational and is being replaced. How is your 90% obsolete 50% operational fleet crewed by sailors who cannot swim?

PS: Still waiting for you to show us how Biro is for only 3 vessles - which begs the question, are you st.upid or just trolling?

agaugust:
To export more into your market like they sold Gripen to you and make money from you by overpriced stuff

O really?

That is their buisness model?

Buy companies for fun?

Henry240:
They bough JF-17 thunders for 67 million a pop. LOL!

We bought 3rd Gen daylight interceptors?

When!?!?!

This is news to me

Henry240:
360,000 rand isn't cheap you fool!

Provide evidence that supports your claim, for all we know you do not have the required skill set to fix your own vehicles.


You gave the number.

Compared to the private sector cost it is cheap.

What will you do when I show you that the source has been posted?