Henry240: 50% of SA navy vessels obsolete .[/color] Unless funds are reprogrammed from under-performing ministries to defence - hardly likely - there is little likelihood of even a small increase in defence funding.[color=#990000]
Our military is designed to deal with the threats and defeat it.
- Best trained lost 46 towns and cities to a handfull of insurgents on pick-ups, had to beg South African mercenaries/Chad/Cameroon to turn the tide of the war for them
- Best equipped with less than 60 rounds of ammunition, that ammunition is generally 40 years old, no medical supplies and uniforms they have to buy for themselves, no radio equipment and a shortage of proper load-bearing clothing, obsolte 1950's AK-47's Copies of Chinese copies of Ak-47's
- Best experienced? I will take well trained troops over experienced any day of the week.
- Best tailored with 60 year old ships, a mismatched hodge-podge of obsolete tracked vehicles (what is mobility warfare), a critical shortage of transport helos and only 7 operational air-force asstes.
Analysis:Sliding rand has serious implications for SANDF Written by Helmoed Heitman, Wednesday, 03 February 2016
The steady slide in the value of the Rand since 2011 holds serious implications for the Defence Force, with the dramatic slide in December serving to underscore that. That recent slide may yet be reversed in the near term, but the longer-term trend will be more difficult to reverse. The obvious risk is to equipment projects, and that faces the Defence Force with challenges it will find difficult to overcome. Government’s foot-dragging over equipment projects since the ‘Strategic Defence Packages’ has left the Defence Force very patchily-equipped: It has some modern equipment courtesy of those packages (frigates, submarines, Gripen, Hawk, Lynx) and 1990s projects (Rooikat, G6, Rooivalk, Oryx), and the is Badger entering production, but much else is obsolescent at best (Olifant, Casspir, Mamba, Samil, C-130) or totally obsolete (Dakota).
There are also critical capability gaps: The Navy has too few ships and half are obsolete; there are no maritime patrol aircraft; and the Army lacks real air defence capability. Assuming South Africa intends to play a regional role, there are also the lack of heavy/long-range airlift, tanker aircraft and sealift to consider. Less obvious is the challenge of more expensive spare parts, which will limit the ability to keep existing equipment operational and hamper training. Even less obvious is the indirect impact of the sliding Rand, which will hit the economy and thus government revenue and the national budget.[/color] Unless funds are reprogrammed from under-performing ministries to defence - hardly likely - there is little likelihood of even a small increase in defence funding.[color=#990000]
If the Rand does not recover from its present parlous state against the major currencies, there is little chance of satisfying equipment requirements, and a budget that continues to limp along just below inflation will be fatal to efforts to implement the Defence Review, even those aspects that do not involve new equipment. And failure to at least begin implementation will see a rapid decline in capability.
Yes, they are obsolete.
Thats why they are being replaced under OP BIRO
We all know this, or do you think we are in the business of replacing ships for fun??
When you replace something in the military the inference is that it is obsolete
agaugust: Kind of Kenyan and other nations' AMISOM men needed now to find and eliminate the top tactical field commanders and motivational leadership of El Shabbab.
Notice important things the SF leader explained.
1. Maximum age for these SF men is 37 years of age, old men not allowed, get old and get out of service, your experience does not matter, your body organs and blood is too old to do high tempo high stamina SF operations.
2. War all over the world has now changed, moved from conventional to irregular/assymetric, and moved again to terrorism/criminality, we mow have 3 types. This is what I have been saying, there is a need for anti-terrorism SF training for CT-COIN SF men, its a different skill and experience from traditional army SF who don't have special depth knowledge of Islamic terrorism.
When you tell people truths on this forum, they keep arguing with you from a blind point of view.
Fighting M23 rebels is totally different from fighting El Shabbab Islamic terrorists, the enemy philosilophy and modus operandi are very different, so the tactics must be different, and training must be different.
NA has about 5,000 army SF, but is building another and a brand new 5,000 troop anti-terrorism SF.
Way to go for AU and UN.
Meanwhile, check out Tunisian SF guy's pouches loaded like an armoury as their country becomes the new target of African terrorism...
1. Average age in Delta is 32 - why limit men to 4 years service after millions invested in training
2. 4G warfare has existed for 26 years now, and its COIN element is no different from COIN in the past. The winning stratergy as shown by the Russians, Algerians and most reently Gen Petraeus - take, build, hold.
I would really appreciate it if you could outline for this thread how Islamic COIN is so vastly different from other COIN.
agaugust: Your Mamba APC is a simple machine too, how many units does your factory produce in a year based on installed capacity? It's a simple machine, even Ethiopia makes MRAP more complex than your Mamba.
How is a tracked 4F APC simple? It runs on battle tank heavy steel tracks not rubber tyres, and you have no steel tracks APC production factory in the whole of South Africa.
l !
South African defence industry CANNOT produce tracked APC, Mortar Carrier, Command Post armoured vehicles like Nigerian defence industry. We bëåt you on this one
.[/quote]
agaugust: Your Mamba APC is a simple machine too, how many units does your factory produce in a year based on installed capacity? It's a simple machine, even Ethiopia makes MRAP more complex than your Mamba.
Mamba is simple? lol, its a monoqouce hull making it more advanced
agaugust: How is a tracked 4F APC simple? It runs on battle tank heavy steel tracks not rubber tyres, and you have no steel tracks APC production factory in the whole of South Africa.
South Africa built a tank
agaugust: Nigerians make the 4F APC as DICON has technology trsnsfer, we stopped production because we have fulfilled the 250 units ordered by NA, if we get a new order today, we produce more, or is your own RATEL IFV fsctory still producing RATELs today? Fool !
Who says it has tech transfer?
If you get a new order you cannot produce more - unless Nigeria keeps empty factories open and pays staff to do nothing
agaugust: South African defence industry CANNOT produce tracked APC, Mortar Carrier, Command Post armoured vehicles like Nigerian defence industry. We bëåt you on this one
agaugust: Nope SAS Drakensberg is a 6,000 ton ship empty weight. Nigerdock builds 10,000 ton ships empty weight.
Thanks for confirming that ANC governmwnt law forced SAAB to employ unqualified blacks as directors under BEE...well SAAB remains 100% Swedish technology imported from Europe, never mind who holds shares in South Africa. Sweden owns SAAB.
1. Citation for Niger dock
2. Who says they are not qualified? 2a. SAAB BOUGHT GRINTEK BECAUSE SAAB WANTED SOUTH AFRICAN TECHNOLOGY
agaugust: Okay, should I also add Nigerian companies that produce equipment for our private security and police too? We too have them aplenty.
Show us the production factory and sales revenue of those your tiny tiny 100 companies and let us see how many of them can build a 10,000 tonne ship like Nigerdock and produce almost 500 armoured vehicles a year like Proforce !!
....and your website of South African 100 defense companies is showing SAAB on the list, so South Africa owns SAAB of Sweden ? Thief. Sweden owns their technology, you feed under their table, don't come here and claim Swedish technology as your own. Thief ! .
lol - SAS Drakensburg is 12,000t
SAAB-Grintek has BEE Level 3, which is the highest BEE rating
agaugust: Lol....Naval Dockyard a workshop? Do you know what a shipyard is in size and equipment?
Proforce and Dicon are workshops? You ever seen a workshop produce tracked APC mortar carrier and command post of NATO standards?
DICON has installed factory capacity to build 300 tracked APCs in a year, Proforce factory capacity is production of 480 APC a year and IS BIGGER THAN MOST armoured vehicle assembly lines in South Africa.....show many SA companies can deliver that number? Show us your factory production lines !!!!! Denel is a glorified workshop .
You produce lots because they are simple machines.
Why are you telling us about tracked vehicles that were built in your country by europeans and that is no longer manufacturing??
agaugust: [s] SIPRI tracks engines its full of them !
Also SIPRI is a mere cooy paste reporting agency, they do not probe licence agreement details of two business partners, its not SIPRI's job, tbey write what the dealer tells them and they have confessed that they SIPRI does NOT have complete information on Nigerian military deals, that is an official SIPRI confession.
Nigerian army is FINAL AUTHORITY on Igirigi and they have declared Nigerian army engineers designed it and manufactured it, with photo evidence of original prototype and developmental stages.
FINITO !!!!![/s]
Nope, SIPIRI is final authority and her story is confirmed by defenceweb
agaugust: Southie Badger design and Finlands Patria design look exactly the same ! Then all 5 Badgers existing today were fully built in Finland and imported by South Africa fully built....DENEL has NO Badger production facility you foooool !!!!
Cameroon bought second hand Ratels you dummy, there is no second hand Igirigi in the market ! They got what they wished for, second hand product.
Nigeria is exporting brand new Igirigi to Libya that has more money and a more powerful military than Cameroon.
Nigerian defense industry has started capturing middle east oil rich Arabs market !!! .
So you think after a handfull of sales you are now "capturing it"
agaugust: SIPRI is refering to engine imported, same way Denel too imports engines.
According to on the FINAL AUTHORITY the Nigerian army, Igirigi is ours....
"The Igirigi Armoured Personnel Carrier (APC) is the Nigerian Army’s locally manufactured armoured personnel carrier.
Designed and manufactured by the army Corps of Engineers , the APC was first introduced to the media during the 2012 Nigeria Army Day celebrations (NADCEL). While actual specs of the vehicle are still undisclosed, observers noted the remote control weapons station, and its IED deflecting V shaped hull.
The Chief of Army Staff (COAS), Lt.-Gen. Azubuike Ihejirika, said the local production of APC had saved the nation at least 30 per cent of the cost of the foreign version and that the unveiling of the APC was part of the ongoing reform in the military and in line with the transformation agenda of the Jonathan administration."
Nigerian army engineers built Igirigi from a Nigerian prototype totally different from Couger PHOTO EVIDENCE BELOW compares the two products, both clearly different....
Case Closed !
According to SIPRI it is a licence built platform.
DieVluit: As expected, there are claims that the sources are false and envious.
Luckily, these are secondary sources and the primary source is SIPRI. Also, "under licence" means you will have the right to give the Cougar another name and to also include some variants.
You probably went for the cheapest licence you could find; and that was one from Streit. So pathetic that they haven't even thought of withdrawing it if you will work in a workspace like what I posted.
LOL, all these months you kept claiming as yours what was in fact not yours.
Yep, that is his standard response.
"ENVY" - how the worlds top 20 arms exporter with one of the 100 biggest defence firms in the world would be envious i dont know
agaugust: Wrong information !!!! False information !!!!! Error loaded source cooked up by envious South African journalists !!!
PHOTO 1 : Canadian Streit. Couger APC design
PHOTO 2 : Nigerian army original prototype Igirigi design
PHOTO 3 : Nigerian army final product Igirigi design
Now tell us how the Igirigi design is same as Couger....meanwhile, that South African website propaganda failed to stop Igirigi export to Libya as Nigeria begins to knock South Africa out of the middle east and african LATV market !!!!
.
Fact is that Igiri is a copy - if igugug is a Nigerian design, then the Badger is a South African design
Do you really think you have knocked us out of the market? With a handfull of these licence built vehicles? Dude, we just sold Ratels to YOUR NEIGHBOR you cant even corner the market in your own region and you think you can compete globally, Ratel is used by 12 countries around the world!!
agaugust: Lol....the new 2016 NAF promo video you responded to, just that video alone shows 12 aircraft without counting the dozens of others....Patches, you have a lot to regret + envy
agaugust: A real air force that fightd real wars Africa's most experienced air to ground attack, intelligence/surveillance/recce, airmen special forces fighting on ground, and precision guided missile air to surface strike capability air force from Cape Town to Cairo 2016.
No rival !!!! NAF is king of Africa !!!! Young blood, experienced blood !!! Envy is killing your enemies !!!!
agaugust: Nigerian navy to build its own Landing Ship, LST....big defense industry in naval ship building...for a navy that is active at sea from Lagos Nigeria, to Luanda of Angola in SADC
agaugust: 1. Nigeria's new expanded military helicopter maintenance hanger is to serve all willing air forces of West African sub region. Official news. 2. Nigerian naval dockyard 10m to 42m IPVs and MPVs are planned for export to West African navies. Officially announced. 3. Nigeria is exporting Igirigi LAV, our battle tested armoured combat vehicle, to Libya 2016.
1. We build helicopters
2. South African shipyards will be producing 100m OPV's
1. Small warhead to be effective. 2. Range. 3. Seeker. 4. intergration.
Years back Denel mentioned the development a weapon system called the SGM(Small guided missile) but like most systems development might currently be halted. A fighter with racks would be able to carry more than 10 of those missiles.
But I doubt if the weapon system was indeed a missile my guess is that it was smaller PGM in the class of the Israeli Spice 250.
In terms of air-to-ground weapon I'd support the development of the system than a anti-ship missile or you wanna see a "nationalised air-launched Exocet missile"?
I want us to develop somthing like Brimstone
Multi-use ASM for everything from taking out an insurgent technical/fast boat to hitting a Frigate.
Mokopa with the range of the Uhmkonto and thruster from the A-darter could do the job
Foreign Affairs › Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by Patchesagain: 1:51pm On Feb 04, 2016
??
