₦airaland Forum

agaugust:
Your sub will be sunk by NAF when it is forced to snorkel after 48 hours underwater.

How?

agaugust:
Bwhahaaha

You finally proved me right and shöt yöursëlf in the hëad !

The two ships photos you posted clearly shows the modern stealth diamond shaped 76mm Super Rapid gun on the Algerian Meko frigate and the obsolete 1970s round shaped 76mm Compact gun on your South African Meko Corvette.

# Suicide Post......

....its not good to tell lies at random, God don catch you for us dis time

Still arguing about pictures?

Work orders for Super Rapids were issued by SAN... the housing has nothing to do with the gun, as Jln115 showed.

Please improve the standards of your argument, you are killing this thread

.

Aint no party like a Ratel party...

Interesting comment by Heitman regarding the Ratel sales to cameroon:

What we should be doing is converting those not needed as ICVS as the Badger enters service to APCs: Refurbish, remove turret and replace with commander's cupola and an overhead machinegun mounting, re-engine if necessary, and that is one fewer new Sapula APC that we have to buy.
We are far too quick to get rid of things and then realise far too late that we should have kept them - Eland-90 (now we have no combat vehicle that the SAAF can transport), C-160 (now we have too little airlift capacity and none that can transport an Oryx in a useful state, and SAS Outeniqua (now we are short of support ships and have no sealift capacity at all).
Has we kept all 1 200 or so Ratels, that would have addressed about one third of the new APC requirement.
We did the same with infantry weapons: Threw away the R1s just before various armies came to realise that 5.56 mm is not always the ideal calibre; threw away the FN Heavy Barrels just before it became clear that we would be participating in peacekeeping and peace-enforcement where they would have served well as basic counter-sniper (what irregular forces regard as snipers) weapons, threw away the Uzis and shotguns just before beginning with operation in rural parts of the DRC where a rifle bullet carries very real risk of overpenetration resulting in civilian casualties.
And so on....

Henry240:
I really honestly do not know what shame you're talking about.




Lotz is reportedly from KwaZulu-Natal, and was engaged in
the support and care of vehicles used by the Nigerian
military in their current onslaught against insurgency.



https://www.naij.com/401378-south-african-contractor-mistakenly-killed-in-nigeria.html



*P.S, I have no problem with Eeben Barlow or his company. I know the guy, he's a great African, a beegeagle's blogger for the past 3years and a good friend of Nigeria.

Suure he was... it makes total sense to hire an experience COIN operator to fix cars... at like 10X the salary that a normal mechanic gets.

It also makes soo much sense that he would be riding in an MRAP on the frontlines when he was killed... just like white guys with blond hair totally werent flying your Hinds when you first got them...

Come now dude. Lets be realistic here.

africaken:
its time we as africans choose other allies against this jihadist,i dont think america is too committed to help us.syria and iraq were in a state of despair until russia came to help.if you compare how much AID Ukraine is getting and what we getting in africa its dismal

Russians are sh1tty allies.

Vlad is only in Syria because it suits the "great game" he is playing with Obama.

In the G8 summit he offered to pull out of Syria if the Americans recognized the Novo-Russian states in the Dombass (Ukraine), Obama said no... so Vlad will just wait until the next president comes along and will offer the same deal.

Syria is just a pawn in Russia's Geo-Political agenda.

Henry240:
Mechanic, Leon Lotz was a mechanic. at no point were there mercenaries in Nigeria.

So, of all the mechanics in the world (and nigeria)... you just happened to hire a "mechanic" who was a former 32 Bn operator?

Come on dude.

The Nigerian army was facing an enemy they had never fought before, and were fighting a war they had never fought before.

So you hired some merc's to help build institutional and operational experience. There is no shame in it.

Who do you think formed the nucleus of the South African special forces in the early 1970's? It was former Rhodesian operators.

No shame in it at all.

Henry240:
That's the incidence that killed Leon Lotz, the South-African mechanic. The author simply doesn't know what he's talking about. The Reva won't stop a 12.7mm, a 23mm would cut through it like a hot knife through butter, there is absolutely no way it can withstand an MBT round.

*mercenary

jln115:
Wow!! new lows Henry!! Aren't you and Agugbugu always calling for sources straight from the manufacturer??.....Now that i give you one you call it a marketing gimmick??

Another funny thing is, you are calling someones disgruntled opinion a fact??................Is the butthurt driving you insane??


South Africans, French and Germans on the team

ESACC brings together German Frigate Consortium GFC, comprising German naval shipyards Blohm & Voss and HDW (now both part of the ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems group), and TNA, a consortium comprising Thales Naval France (now part of DCNS) and Thales's South African partner African Defence Systems (ADS).

For this complex programme, GFC was in charge of the platform and propulsion systems, built in Germany, with TNA handling ship and combat system design and integration in Simon's Town, South Africa.



Proven combat management system

The combat system features French-developed sensors and weapons and is controlled by a Tavitac combat management system (CMS). Tavitac has already proven its capability on the French Navy's La Fayette-class frigates and the Sawari programme with Saudi Arabia. The South African customer was closely involved throughout the programme, sending a permanent team to supervise operations at the Hamburg and Kiel shipyards in Germany. Meanwhile, a team of systems engineers from TNA worked in Germany during the conceptual design phase from 2000 onwards to plan integration of the combat systems on South Africa's warships.

https://www.thalesgroup.com/en/canada/defence/san-pc

[size=15pt]The Valour Class being invited to India and China for high-tempo exercises has driven Henry insa.ne!! [/size]

Henry240:
Marketing gimmicks doesn't equal fact.

As you can see, I'm providing you with facts, not marketing gimmicks.

No Facts = No Bueno.


Provide facts.

How is that a Marketing gimmick?

Fact is the ships have the exact same combat suite!!


The combat system features French-developed sensors and weapons and is controlled by a Tavitac combat management system (CMS). Tavitac has already proven its capability on the French Navy's La Fayette-class frigates and the Sawari programme with Saudi Arabia.
https://www.thalesgroup.com/en/canada/defence/san-pc

The Tavitac system is also fitted to the French Navy's La Fayette-class frigates
http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6524:fact-file-valour-class-small-guided-missile-frigates-&catid=79:fact-files

There, TWO SOURCES

So, if valour class is obsolete... are those ships obsolete as well?

Henry, it shows how little you think of your own argument when you refuse to acknowladge other sources

agaugust:
Black Scorpion APC, made by Carat Company of Belgium

http://www.army-technology.com/contractors/vehicles/carat-security-group/carat-security-group4.html

STANAG 1... what a P.O.S

I dont understand why countries buy this stuff...

jln115:
Yes exactly!! That's why Mr Young was destroyed at the Seriti commission.

South Africans, French and Germans on the team

ESACC brings together German Frigate Consortium GFC, comprising German naval shipyards Blohm & Voss and HDW (now both part of the ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems group), and TNA, a consortium comprising Thales Naval France (now part of DCNS) and Thales's South African partner African Defence Systems (ADS).

For this complex programme, GFC was in charge of the platform and propulsion systems, built in Germany, with TNA handling ship and combat system design and integration in Simon's Town, South Africa.



Proven combat management system

The combat system features French-developed sensors and weapons and is controlled by a Tavitac combat management system (CMS). Tavitac has already proven its capability on the French Navy's La Fayette-class frigates and the Sawari programme with Saudi Arabia. The South African customer was closely involved throughout the programme, sending a permanent team to supervise operations at the Hamburg and Kiel shipyards in Germany. Meanwhile, a team of systems engineers from TNA worked in Germany during the conceptual design phase from 2000 onwards to plan integration of the combat systems on South Africa's warships.

https://www.thalesgroup.com/en/canada/defence/san-pc

So fvcking wrecked

pic related

Henry240:
A Toyota Camry 1992 model and a Toyota Camry 2016 are both Toyota camry's...........



Provide the technical data of the F100 or Lafayette, you've done no such.



Since you're unable to provide evidence, my work here is done.

henry, I have just posted a link which says THE SAME combat suite was fitted in those vessels.

So... if they have the same system would they then be obsolete?

Answer the question and then I promise I will deal with your "technical data".

I cant understand why you wont answer the question.

.

Henry240:
You see what I have done, provided sound, technical proof that the combat suite in the Valour corvette is not modern. In the same vein, i want you to provide sound technical proof that supports your argument that they are modern and are exact same as on the la-fayette, F100 etc etc .



N/B: Please, no emotions or emotional posts are allowed.

I just provided you with proof that it is used on those vessels.
http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6524:fact-file-valour-class-small-guided-missile-frigates-&catid=79:fact-files

Thus, based on what you know... are those vessles then obsolete?

Answer the question and then we can deal with your "technical data"

Henry240:
That's obviously a typo!


There is no evidence that they are the exact same,

Evidence has been posted - same systems were fitted
http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6524:fact-file-valour-class-small-guided-missile-frigates-&catid=79:fact-files

Now, if the combat suite is the same... does it mean they are obsolete?

I cant wait to see the mental gymanstics you need to do to get out of this one

Henry240:
There is evidence that they are the exact same.

So you say:

1. They are the same

2. But only ours is obsolete and theirs is not

Hmmm... seems our trip to India and China is causing you to have a mental breakdown

Henry240:
Provide their data side by side, let us compare.


I'll make it easy for you, I'll provide the South-African data, while you provide the Algerian data.

So you are saying that the exact same combat suite does not have the exact same data?

Yes or no

Henry240:
You're going to India,


I do hope you know India has 2 Aircraft carries,

The Nigerian Navy is built to summarily defeat the contemporary threats we face, and we excel at it. We have the assets, men and training to continuously deploy and deal with that threat.




You..... You on the other hand, claims to have a Navy :

- 4 Corvettes armed with 3 missiles per ship

- 3 submarines

- 40 million dollars a unit SAR Helicopters

- Lone seaborne pilot

Is this what you call a Navy?

We are going to India and China - we are going to do training we cant do in RSA.

Guess who didnt get invited - Nigeria (even after spending all that money on Chinese equipment)

You have defeated nothing - Nigeria remains a world piracy and oil-theft hotspot

Our navy

- 4 corvettes with 4 SSM's eand 16 SAMs each (you have none), all of which are the most advanced in SSA

- 3 subs (you have none) The only and most advanced in SSA

- 4 of the most advanced maritime helos in SSA

- Multiple pilots for them.

In comparison nigeria has a fleet:

- 50% of which is non operational
- Ships have an average age of 40 years
- Has no actual warships
- Crashed their only warship 8 times
- Can only afford 2 modern OPV's (RSA is buying 4), both of which are stripped down
- Relys on american donations, all of which are stripped down
- Most sailors cannot swim
- Has no operational maritime helicopters
- Has not conducted high-intensity combat training in decades

You know what I call that? A coast guard with a rust fleet

It seems that the fact that the valour classes have been sent to india and china for exercises has really upset the nigerians.

That is the only explanation for the ludicrous arguments they are presenting

agaugust:
Different Exocet variant, different 76mm gun, navionics not same, CIWS gun not same.....SAN Meko corvette is NOT same as Algerian Meko FRIGATE
.

Its the same ship... fitted with different weapons.

And what we are talking about is the ability to fit weapons onto the hull of the ship... YOU HAVE PROVEN THE POINT WE WERE MAKING!!!

Dude, have you been drinking?

Are you really lonely or something and looking for people to talk to?

Henry240:
Scratch that part in bold. We do not know the details of their combat suite, however we have seen the data of Valour class corvettes, and they prove the ships are obsolete.

So the exact same combat suite will not have the exact same data?

Dude, there is so much to argue about... you really wanna waste time with such stu.pid arguments?

Fvcking hell man.

agaugust:
You are the one questioning and disputing decoy HPJ effectiveness, so the burden of proof is on you...

Prove to us with citation that they are not 100% effective, prove your claim now !
.

You are the one making the claim of 100%... not me.

Prove your claim!

Augustus, the fact that you refuse to shows that you know that this argument is beyond pathetic, you know that all you want to do is sit here and argue for the sake of arguing.

Grow up, be a man, face facts... a corvette without missiles does not stand a chance against a Frigate with missiles. You said so yourself on Beegeagles blog

Henry240:
So you are actually serious....... LMFAO


In effect you're going to brag with the mighty Indian Navy with 3 missiles. LOL!!

Who said anything about india?

We are bragging to YOU...

We are bragging about having a navy with warships... when all you have is a coast guard

agaugust:
[s]Algeria is NOT South Africa, their own Exocet is different from yours and has 180km range not 73km like your old Southie Exocets. Their Meko warship is also custom built and is a frigate fully armed with stealth guns that SAN does not have.

Show proof that SAN Valour patrol corvettes can carry 16 Exocets on one ship, prove it[/s]
.

Same ship, dipsh.it... its designed to be "upgunned"

agaugust:
[s]You bought ONLY 17 Exocets, your people claimed you test fired one on each ship, so how many Exocets do you have left ? Tell us with proof !

NNS centenary and NNS unity will waste your 13 Exocets and gun battle starts, then superior Nigerian 76mm stealth guns will sink Valour corvettes and your ancient 1970s rusted shorter range 76mm compact model guns that your foolish navy repainted from scrap yard putting non stealth gun on a stealth ship.....Nation of Zulu ïdïots !![/s]
.

Stop repeating yourself like an i.diot.

You say that your decoys will waste of 13 missiles? Prove it, provide a citation.

This i.diot thinks that decoys are 100% effective... if they were... why would people still be making ASM's?

Clown

agaugust:
][size=13pt]

LOL....South African Navy officially classifies Valour as a mere Patrol Corvette NOT even up to Frigate, talk less of Destroyer class !

"Valour Class Patrol Corvettes - with images from the SAS Amatola, SAS Isandlwana and SAS Spioenkop."

http://www.navy.mil.za/vtour/default.htm

SAN Classifies It's Valour Warships As Patrol Corvettes Due to Poor armament
.[/size]

We have provided sources that say that they dont.

Is this all you have? Because if so you have clearly run out of argument which means my work here is done.

Henry240:
You are bragging with 13 missiles...... LMFAO!!

You are bragging with ZERO missiles... LMFAO

agaugust:
8 Exocets anti-ship missiles only. Other missiles are short range anti-aircraft Umkhonto missiles

Quote where your navy says 48 missiles, quote the text and weblink, liar !

8 that can be increased to 16 - Algerians chose to fit all 16 on theirs.

agaugust:
You have only 13 Exocets NOT 17.

Manufacturer says HP-J defeats missiles. Fact !

There is no official record of 80% Exocet hit rate, and it is a bad missile notorious for failing to explode, just lucky to cause fire and sink two ships in its 35 year history. Many Iraqi exocets hït ships in gulf war and none of the ships sank. Exocet hit British ships in Falkland war and bounced off into the air wasted, ships just got hull metal dent repaired. Exocet has poor combat success rate in 35 years of many dozens fired in combat, sank only 2 ships, that is a 10% success rate realistically.

NNS centenary and NNS unity will waste your 13 Exocets and gun battle starts, then superior Nigerian 76mm stealth guns will sink Valour corvettes and your ancient 1970s rusted shorter range 76mm compact model guns that your foolish navy repainted from scrap yard putting non stealth gun on a stealth ship.....Nation of Zulu ïdïots !!
.

Who says we have 13?

Ok, manufacturer says it defeats missiles... but how many? What percentage success rate? Did they work in the Falklands?

That entire paragraph is complete B.S, which ships did the Iraqi's hit? Fact is in Falklands 5 exocet were fired... 3 ships hit, 2 sunk. You can do math right?

No, your ships will be wasted by a hail of missiles. Fact.

agaugust:
According to your own South African Navy official website, your Valour ships have 1970s 76mm Compact NOT Super Rapid....

Name Number Builders Laid down Launched Commissioned

SAS Amatola F145 Blohm+Voss Hamburg 02 Aug 2001 06 June 2002 25 Sep 2005
SAS Isandlwana F146 Howaldtswerke Kiel 26 Oct 2001 05 Dec 2002 19 Dec 2004
SAS Spioenkop F147 Blohm+Voss Hamburg 28 Feb 2002 02 Aug 2003 15 Mar 2004
SAS Mendi F148 Howaldtswerke Deutche Werft, Kiel 28 Jun 2002 Oct 2003 15 Jun 2004


Displacement, tons: 3,590 full load
Speed, knots: 28.
Range,miles: 7,700 at 15 kt
Complement: 92 plus 8 aircrew plus 20 spare
Missiles: SSM: 8 Exocet MM40 Block 2; SAM Umkhonto 16 cell VLS
Guns: 1 OTOBreda 76mm/62 compact
2 LIW DPG 35mm (twin). 2 Oerlikon 20mm Mk1.
Combat data systems: Thomson-CSF.

http://www.navy.mil.za/equipment/valour.htm

Your own source proved you to be a liar on Sunday morning

Go to church and repent of your random lying and falsehood

Sources have been posted.

SAN ordered parts for and technicians to work on Super-Rapids.

Stop dragging this thread back into old content... navy publicity sites are not the definitive answer on anything.