₦airaland Forum

AugustineAgain:
The bolded part is a BIG lie !!
.

Citations to prove it have been posted

And by "See" he means many things

agaugust:
Tactical data link is cheap, it does NOT cost billions of dollars, its a computer software basically, its not a nuclear missile.

LINK ZA cost only a few million Rands, not even dolllars. Total cost to develop it is probably less than $1 million. Stop making up false figures, liar, robber !
.

Total costs and implementation costs of all system in the world?


Read my posts
Understand my posts
Respond accordingly

agaugust:
95% of world military forces have no tactical datalink including big powers whom we assume they dont have like North Korea, will SANDF use data link to defeat North Korea in battle? Your South Africa will be dëströyed in 5 minutes by North Korea.

There will be no more Zulu nation on world Atlas map, yöu die with yõur data link !
.

Why are you off topic again?

agaugust:
Nope, you are wrong, NAF has many aircraft and drones with inbuilt datalink, NN has many vessels with inbuilt datalink, they relay messages back to command centre via individual datalinks, they dont have to use voice. NA is the only one I have not seen their datalink platforms, but they have things that are just beign revealed, they have not shown us their land based mobile command and control systems moved from Abuja to Maiduguri.

SANDF LINK ZA failed to perform as expected its now just about 20% success I will say. That is the report from South Africa, NATO refused to sell you the real data link technology so the one made in South Africa os inferior and grossly inefficient, it CANNOT do all those things you guys are claiming here, that is the report from South African experts who built the LINK ZA....its a paper tiger...toothless bulldog ! FACT !
.

1. Nigeria has no databank

2. No evendence of what you are saying

Your argument is a work of fiction.

agaugust:
How many times faster? I have asked 7 times no Southy can answer? Or JF-17 has damaged yöu South Africans' brains?

TDL travels via satellite, same way normal satcom or internet communication travels via satellite.

I ask the again tell us how many times fsster your data link is over normal satcom
.

TDL = Instant transfer of info amongst ALL nodes in the network
Nigerian way = calling each individual commander and updating information verbally

agaugust:
In arithmetics, is infinity a number? Olodo goat brained Southy dullard

Tell us the difference in speed of your datalink and real-time transmission satellite/radio/internet command and control....if you cannot answer, then your Link-ZA tactical data-link is NO SIGNIFICANT ADVANTAGE over normal communication equipment
.

It has no advantage by nations around the world have spent billions developig and implimenting it?

Lol, ok, whatever you say

agaugust:
You proved NOTHING with long story ! I said how many times is data link faster than C2 ? Answer with proof !

Give us numbers or figures to prove your point. There C2 systems that transmit by inbuilt datalink in real time and instant, two isolated combat units can share data in 30 seconds....or how slow is internet and sattelite communications? It takes hours to send a message by email or radio comms/phone ?


So, tell us how many times is data link faster than C2 that 95% of world military forces are using successfuly with no tactical datalink ? Answer with proof !

Infinitely because it is instant

agaugust:
[s]Did Dasuki use a gun or stick, or broke through locked windows? According to common law universally, corruption is NOT armed robbery . Fool !

Nigerian military recaptured or destroyed ALL weapons we lost to Bokos.

South African army weapons get looted at home in your bakcyard armoury in your own country. Also. SANDF weapons robbed from them remain in Burundi and Bangui being used rebels with confidence....SANDF has no courage to go get it back...cowards[/s]
.

1. There was no armed robbery
2. Seleka paid 400 dead for 5 R4's and 2 Geckos... We won on that deal
3. No weapons were lost in Burundi

Yet again, you have to invent stories to find something to insult us about

agaugust:
US donated C-130 Hercules aircraft to South African air force, Germany donated Warships to South African navy.

You live in a glass house, dont throw stones....your country is 3rd world Zulu nation
.

C-130 > MRAP

Germany navy donated targets to the SAN

iblawi:
Even an armed robber that wants to rob a bank needs insider information. This is plain robbery. You have no point.

Theft not robbery

iblawi:
Patrick is a mad man, I don't no what he is trying to claim.

Shame 1 kill am die.

That it wasnt a robbery

Which it wasnt - citations have been provided

Henry240:
Tell me.

You want me to tell you how to use google?

Henry240:
Educational.

You need me to teach you how to use Google??

Henry240:
That stick protesters usually carry in your country, what's it called?

relevance?

agaugust:
Your own country reports it as ROBBERY you liar !!

A brazen robbery, possibly involving tens of millions of
rand, at the offices of the State Security Agency has raised
questions about the effectiveness of the organisation tasked
with keeping South Africans safe.
The robbery took place in the early hours of December 26,
but by Sunday [January 3] the agency was unable to say how
much had been stolen; why its Pretoria headquarters were
so insecure that a safe with cash could be broken into; and
the reason for it keeping cash on the premises.

www.african-defense.com/defense-news-2/robbery-at-south-africas-state-security-agency/

SA intel robbed in its homeland ! Shame !

Cant stop laughing....
.

Since no violence was involved it is not a robbery, meerly theft and reports indicate there was serious suspicion that it was an inside job.

Pretoria - The Hawks are investigating the theft of a large amount of money from the State Security Agency's offices in Pretoria East on December 26.
http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/hawks-probe-theft-from-state-security-agency-safe-20160103

Stop wasting my time with your petulant arguments.

agaugust:
Your citation has NO SOURCE WEBLINK....you wrote that story in your dreams?

Into the garbage bin it goes....no proof...wasted effort.
.

For once in your life can you not behave like a child?

agaugust:
That is official corruption NOT armed robbery you dunce !

Just like the incident in question was corruption and NOT armed robbery you dunce

agaugust:
How many times faster? Simple question.

Its faster.

That is all that is relevant

agaugust:
Israel won nothing in the last war, Egypt did not surrender, and there were Egyptian troops on Israeli territory too.
:
If Israel had advanced to Cairo, they would be cut off in flanks to rear maneuver by Egyptian army in a wide desert battlespace. The Egyptians will deny the Israeli advancing army the usual air support by moving mobile SA-6 SAM in-between the invading Israeli force and the nation of Israel, then Egyptian jets will massacre the cut off Israelis.

That is the tactics Cuba used to force South Africa to beg for peaceful negotiations in Angolan war, Cuba pincered SADF and cutting them off will mean death to all that SANDF regiments.

1. Egyptian armor was stuck on the OTHER SIDE of the Canal, ever heard of the "Trapped 3rd Army" - the road to Cairo was wide open and the Egyptian Army was in complete dissaray

By the end of the war, the Israelis had advanced to positions some 101 kilometres from Egypt's capital, Cairo, and occupied 1,600 square kilometres west of the Suez Canal.[225] They had also cut the Cairo-Suez road and encircled the bulk of Egypt's Third Army. The Israelis had also taken many prisoners after Egyptian soldiers, including many officers, began surrendering in masses towards the end of the war.[226] The Egyptians held a narrow strip on the east bank of the canal, occupying some 1,200 square kilometres of the Sinai.[226] One source estimated that the Egyptians had 70,000 men, 720 tanks and 994 artillery pieces on the east bank of the canal.[227] However, between 30,000 to 45,000 of them were now encircled by the Israelis.[228][229]

2. Isrealys had knocked out the SA-6's when they crossed the Canal

I reccommend that you read up on the history of that conflict because you quite obviously have no idea what you are talking about

When did Cuba use these tactics? Care to point it out?

Dude, again, how do you derive any satisfaction by making things up in an argument? Do you no longer care about actually being right and now are obsessed only with arguing itself?

Henry240:
Did the robbers disarm your "highly trained" Agents with sticks?



What's the South-African name for those long sticks with a curved head?

What are you talking about?

agaugust:
Data link is NOT 10 times faster, UNLESS you prove to us that it does in 2 minutes what C2 will do in 20 minutes....PROVE IT.

Datalink is instant sharing of information over a network.


By definition it is faster

agaugust:
When did Israel defeat Egypt? Over about 50 years ago.....half a century. Egypt of today is not same as 50 years ago flying MiG-21 jets, they now fly high class Rafale jets.

Anyway, last time they fought, it was stalemate no winner.

Isreal clearly won the last time they fought - considering that they Isrealy's ended up INVADING Egypt and were on the doorstep of Damascus

Yes, and Isrealy armament has improved as well... thats how it works

Egypt had a massive army, isreal was fighting on 3 fronts and they still humiliated Egypt and Syria and Iraq and Jordan.

Western Equipment/doctrine > Eastern Equipment/Doctrine

Henry240:
When your DSS gets robbed, it means not even your President is safe from criminals.



Wow...... What a bunch of nitwits!

.. And the year is alone just starting.

Good thing then that our "DSS" didnt get robbed.

Henry240:
Buhahahahahahahahhahaha........ Your DSS got robbed!

....Oh my sides are hurting........


I always knew you guys are led by a bunch of clowns.

Again, its not our DSS

I literally have no problem with an administrative building being robbed.

agaugust:
JF-17 has flown amost 10 years....1 crash

Gripen flown 25 years....11 crashes.

We know how Gripen jet crashes around the world like F-7 jet.

Gripen = F-7

1. 7 Crashes only for the Gripen

2. How many JF-17?

3. How many Gripen?

The real fact is this:

1 Jf-17 crash = 1 dead pilot
7 Gripen crash = 0 dead pilots

agaugust:
Bwahahahaha

My sides are in orbit....LOL....South African Intelligence Agency robbed by civilian criminals....at home in their own backyard....LOL....Cant stop laughing !
.

Not our intelligence agency.

agaugust:
You are the 40 year old Mörön of Nairaland.

Supersonic speed is ~ 1,240 km/h.....JF-17 speed is ~ 2,000 km/h....how is it slow, flying extra 750 km/h more than the basic supersonic jet speed ?

Gripen jet has poor altitude flying like a pigeon 2,000 feet less and under the eagle height of JF-17 Thunder

.
.

Speed is important to interceptors.

JF-17 is a slow interceptor

Thus: IT IS A BAD INTERCEPTOR

Simple really

agaugust:
Some of the above listed vehicles are NOT IFVs, e.g. Stryker is an ACV not IFV you dundee domingo, stop comparing wrong type of vehicles.

LAV III carries standard 25mm cannon point weapon and 76mm grenade frag explosive launchers for area weapon. Puma carries cannon plus missiles. Bradley carries cannon plus missiles.

Any IFV that does less is obsolete in cmcept like the Badger, does not matter if 10 countries use obsolete IFV concept, all we are saying is that South Africa belongs to the obsolete club, Nigeria belongs to the advanced IFV users class....like USA and Russia.

BTR-4 is king of African IFVs, thanks to Nigeria
.

1. Stryker is an IFV

2. LAV III carries a 25mm cannon, 76mm grenade launcher is not standard

3. Puma and Bradley are tracked heavy IFVs - apples and oranges.


Augustine...90% of modern IFV's have dropped the missile variants of their IFVs to comply with modern doctrine. And the same applies to Nigeria - you said you dont have missiles for your BTR.

Stop wasting my time with meaningless arguments... Badger is better armored, Better armed, has a longer range, better optics, better electronics and a better reputation.

Case closed

agaugust:
Only a fool like you Southies will talk about jet vs jet combat without missiles. Are the jets flying for fun in an air olympics sports show? Fool of Gauteng !
.

Missiles have literally nothing to do with what we are talking about.

Stay on topic

Henry240:
buhahahahahahahahahaha.......... South-Africa's version of the DSS robbed by burglars!



A brazen robbery, possibly involving tens of millions of
rand, at the offices of the State Security Agency has raised
questions about the effectiveness of the organisation tasked
with keeping South Africans safe.
The robbery took place in the early hours of December 26,
but by Sunday [January 3] the agency was unable to say how
much had been stolen; why its Pretoria headquarters were
so insecure that a safe with cash could be broken into; and
the reason for it keeping cash on the premises.

www.african-defense.com/defense-news-2/robbery-at-south-africas-state-security-agency/

It was an inside job

and the State Security Agency is not like the DSS they are an administrative organization that governs the South African Secret Service, the National Intelligence Agency etc.

All you have done is shown that a normall office building has been robbed.

Henry240:
Forget the SU-35, 6 units of SU-35s would not save us from an impeding rape by French Rafale fighters.


What we desperately need is the SU-34 Fighter-Bomber. Have you seen............ I mean have you seen that plane and the capabilities it can perform? It's simply unbelievable!


My ideal setup:

18-20 units of JF-17 Block II

12 units of SU-34 Fulback

24 units of L-15 or 24 Yak-130

You planning on fighting a major air war against someone?

Because that is overkill for your neigbors and wont even be a speed-bump for any of the global powers.

Pakistanilad:
With the size of the Nigerian economy,their defence needs and their history of cooperation with Pakistan Air Force and their history of major defence purchases from Pakistan they very well could become the second largest operator of jf17 after Pakistan

agaugust:
I feel your thoughts my big boss, so many disappointments and delays in the past, don't worry, your wish is now granted by NAF getting a 4th generation jet.....and the deal for technology transfer remains on the table for Nigeria to build the jets at home and maybe even export, we will control the African market if we play smart with Pakistan as the first buyer in the world. Watch other countries follow us this 2016, they will start buying.
For ideal set up, I will prefer more deadly for NAF aircraft mix :
20 JF-17 Block 3 (Six trainer versions)
6 Su-35 Stealthy Flanker (Two trainer versions)
6 Su-25 COIN (Two trainer versions)
36 Super Mushak....4th gen trainer/COIN
Same $1.5 billion cost....the JF-17 answers MiG-29 and Gripen, Su-35 answers Su-30 and Rafale, Su-25 answers Boko Haram close range when pilot need to I.D. friend or foe by eye visual observation in a confused closed quaters combat ground battle space, Super Mushak answers Boko Haram at safe distance with guided munitions.
We need to be able to help African nations while we help ourselves. Brothers are brothers, long live Africa !

Money Money Money

Nigeria has more important things to spend on than JF-17s and other shiny fighter, and with the current oil prices being as they are...

It makes sense for Pakistan to muster a huge airforce... you guys (@Pakistanilad) face India who have an impressive list of Heavy (they can blot out the sun with their Su-30MKIs) and Medium fighters (s.exy Mirage 2000's everywhere)*.

Nigeria has no such problems... Cameroon has a whole 5 MB-326s, Chad has 3 MiG-29's which have been ordered and never heard of again and Niger has a whole 2 Frogfoots...

They have bigger fish to fry and more logical purchases to make. And RSA, Angola and Uganda have fallen into the same trap in the past.

Best strategy would be:

- 12 or so JF-17 to replace the F-7's in the point defense role
- 6 or so Su-34 for long range strikes across Nigeria
- augmented by a large number of 24 or so light trainers for training and localized strike missions (cheap to operate, versatile and do not require lots of training to be effective)**.

In interstate conflicts, massing these numbers will be enough to achieve complete air superiority over any of their neighbors.

And the cost will only come to: ~$780 mil, well under budget and leaves another ~$700 million for the rest of the airforce (46 Super Puma OR 58 Gazelle OR 40+ Mil 17's OR 13 C-27 Spartans etc etc etc

But hey, thats just my opinion and I only bothered with this academic game because I am bored out of my skull right now.

*Luckily the HAL Tejas is an absolute P.O.S
** Hongdu JL-8 is cheap at only $10 mil a pop, but Aero L-159 Alca is the same price and can be configured for both western and eastern weapnons.