₦airaland Forum

agaugust:
Who says they are not 100% effective ?
.

You said they will defeat ALL 17 missiles.

Prove it.

Exocet has an 80% hit rate, battle tested and proven.

Until you prove your claims, your corvette stands no chance.

agaugust:
Nigeria wins ! NNS Centenary and NNS Unity HP-J 14 anti-missile decoys will waste your Valour Patrol Corvettes missiles, then gun battle starts, Nigerian ships have a modern stealth 76mm gun with superior range to South African 1970s obsolete shorter range guns !
.

Who says that the missile decoys are 100% effective?

agaugust:
According to you Obsolete weapons become good when it is South Africa using them. If it was Nigerian stealth ship using a 1970s gun repainted from scrap yard, will you still be saying the gun is good? Ask yourself and judge yourself....Goat Brained Mörön !
.

Is the Super Rapid a 1970's gun?

agaugust:
According to South African navy authorities, you have Valour patrol corvettes NOT frigates, your navy has now downgraded their class due to poor armament, missile shortages, and obscolete combat suites plus 1970s rusted gun.

"Valour Class Patrol Corvettes - with images from the SAS Amatola, SAS Isandlwana and SAS Spioenkop."

http://www.navy.mil.za/vtour/default.htm
.

Classed as frigates by the Navy due to Super-Rapid 76mm gun, space for up to 46 missiles and advanced combat suite
http://www.navy.mil.za/equipment/valour.htm

agaugust:
Nigerian navy has published plans to refit Aradu frigate and buy guided missile fast attack crafts this 2016, we are in a buying mood and the whole world can see that. SAN will have a problem when our missile vessels are put to sea later this 2016.

SIPRI records 17 Exocets for SAN, thats all you bought, your Southy mates here said your navy t?st fires missiles every few years, so after test firing 4 Exocets on 4 Valour frigates in 10 years, how many missiles do you have left ? 17 - 4 = 13 you fool !

1. You arent buying anything

2. 13 active missiles for SAN v 0 Active missiles for NN... who wins?

agaugust:
Nobody ever said Nigeria has C-803 anti-ship missile as at now, but it can be acquired for our stealth OPVs if war arises, same way your guys claim South Africa can buy more Exocet missiles.

You dont have monopoly of buying new weapons. Every country can do that.

C-803 and C-802 misssiles exist, JF-17 Thunder jet carries the missile just like warships
.

Your ships are not fitted for missiles.

That is the difference

africaken:
the american striker APC which had a reinforced flat floor but after deadly IED strikes in Afghanistan,latest upgrades are coming with V shaped structure.even the latest Singapore army Terrex Infantry Carrier Vehicle is being build with a V shaped hull,the design will still continue in wheeled APC which are deployed counter insurgency operations

Stryker has a V-hull... double V hull I beleive

gottfried21:
Evening Gents
(This is off topic yet somewhat relevant I guess)
I highly recommend you guys see "Beasts of no Nation" either at the cinemas,Netflix or Putlocker...It's epic*Praise emoji*
Featuring a rebel group(Led by Idris Elba)
Government forces
And Nigerian/Ghanian ECOMOG forces

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xb9Ty-1frw

jln115:
Looks like we are selling of the rest of our Ratel, now that we are getting the new Badger!! I wouldn't mind if we sell/retire all our Ratel 20 , but we should definitely keep the Ratel 90, Ratel 81 , Ratel EAOS and Ratel ZT3 variants.

I am just postulating here... so this is not the word of god.

The Army has only made an order fo 236 (i know there will prob be follow on orders but anyway) and we have over 1000 Ratels.

What this means is that the 236 Ratels that are made redundant will most likely be the most worn down and knackered ones... probably ones from the first production run.

So, Ratels made available for export will only be able to be sold after extensive refurb... and judging by what LMT did for the military museum that is going to cost upwards of $20 000.

agaugust:
[size=13pt]

LOL....South African Navy officially classifies Valour as a mere Patrol Corvette NOT even up to Frigate, talk less of Destroyer class !

"Valour Class Patrol Corvettes - with images from the SAS Amatola, SAS Isandlwana and SAS Spioenkop."

http://www.navy.mil.za/vtour/default.htm

SAN Classifies It's Valour Warships As Patrol Corvettes Due to Poor armament
.[/size]

They are frigates according to the manufacturer, and are more heavily armed than anything in your arsenal

agaugust:
1. Stop telling lies about Super Rapid gun, SAN has NONE ! Your Valour ships have 76mm Compact, the obsolete 1970s gun model.

2. Valour can only carry 8 SSM Exocets NOT 16 you liar. STOP TELLING RANDOM LIES, TRY FEAR GOD A LITTLE BIT.

3. NNS Aradu has torpedoes, it is standard for frigates, means SAN Valour frigates are NOT full multi-role, the lack ASW capabilities.

4. You said SAN can buy more missiles for your ships, so I said same for Nigeria, we too can arm our P18N with missiles as frigates
.

1. Not according to SAN work-orders

2. Valour Class can be fitted with up to 16 - just like the Algerian variant

3. Why would we need ASW capabilities if no one else in SSA has subs? Valour Class has torp tubes and can be acquired if needed

4. No, your P18N are not fitted for missiles.

gottfried21:
Evening Gents
(This is off topic yet somewhat relevant I guess)
I highly recommend you guys see "Beats of no Nation" either at the cinemas,Netflix or Putlocker...It's epic*Praise emoji*
Featuring a rebel group(Led by Idris Elba)
Government forces
And Nigerian/Ghanian ECOMOG forces

lol - "beats of no nation".... a movie about a renegade African Warlord/DJ... I have a vision of the rebels ambushing a government patrol while a rebel leader drops some sick beats in the background

I have seen it, it was fantastic

agaugust:
Destroyer ? With only one 76mm gun from 1972 scrap yard? Fool.

Stop lying, South African navy Valour frigates have only about 13 Exocet missiles instead of the 32 missiles required to equip 4 ships.

All your Valour frigates have ZERO torpedoes.

Valour frigate Exocet has range about 70 km, Type 056 has C-803 with 250 km range....Nigerian corvette will sink your frigate
.

1. Super Rapid

2. Valour Class can carry up to 16 SSM's and 32 SAMs

3. Why would we need torps when we are the only ones in SSA who operate subs?

4. Nigerian Corvette has no missiles - it will be target practice for a valour class

Henry240:
Until we see their data, we cannot say.


Valour class = Obsolete, Yes!

So you are saying that the same combat suite will not have the same data?


You need to read Sereti Comission testimony - your man said Valour Class's combat suite was inferior to HIS combat suite. Problem was, HIS combat suite was only THEORETICAL, had NO PROTOTYPE and would have added 40% to the total cost of the vessel and there was no guarantee that IT WOULD EVEN WORK.

Fact is this: At the time, the Thales Detexis Tavatic system was the most advanced available - proven by the fact that the French chose it for their Frigates, the Saudi's chose it for their frigate and again the French chose it for their flagship (A nuclear aircraft carrier)

africaken:
cameroon has acquired Ratel 20 armoured infantry fighting vehicle with 20mm cannon,the initial delivery was on december 2015 to be used by the battalion Cameroon's elite Rapid Intervention Battalion (BIR). . cameroon i have come to realise is a country serious about the war on terror,from training,weapon procurement and commitment to fight terror

Should have gotten the iKlwa variant*

Anyway, good to see that they choose a vehical that was designed for Africans by Africans. Pity that the Rooikat is out of production... also a pity that the AMCIT turret and GI-30 does not fit on the Ratel.

agaugust:
Nigerian Navy has long range SAR AW-139 helicopters you dummy ! With Navy pilots, and under Navy aviation wing, something South African navy CANNOT do.....SAN has no pilot and no aviation wing ! Obsolete naval doctrine !

[/size]

Fastest cruise speed and highest power to weight ratio in its category

Two powerful Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6 engines, with FADEC and an advanced rotor system provide superior ‘hot and high’ performance and exceptional One Engine Inoperative (OEI) capability for unparalleled safety (Cat. A Class 1 performance at Maximum Gross Weight at 40°C at Sea Level) and handling for SAR operations in confined areas

State-of-the-art Honeywell Primus Epic® VFR / IFR low workload NVG compatible integrated glass cockpit with 4-axis digital autopilot, advanced avionics and systems provide excellent situational awareness and maximise mission effectiveness

Optional mission equipment, including multi-band radios, radar, Electro-Optic / Infra-Red (EO/IR) device, mission console, video down-link, searchlight, loudspeakers, rescue hoist and cargo hook

Largest cabin volume in its class, with accommodation for 2-4 stretchers with up to 5 seats

Large sliding doors and flat-floor cabin enable use of hoist and rapid entry / egress on ground

The only helicopter in its class to fully satisfy the latest FAR29 and AIROPS regulations, incorporating crashworthiness and survivability features

Mission equipment including multi-band radios, radar, Electro-Optic / Infra-Red (EO/IR) device, mission console, video down-link, searchlight, loudspeakers, rescue hoist and cargo hook, internal weapons and modular ballistic protection for cockpit and cabin

Largest passenger cabin in its class maximises working room and mission flexibility 8 m3 / 283 ft3 of cabin space can accommodate up to 15 passengers or 8 deployable law enforcement officers and 2 armed crew for aircraft protection

Redundant systems, crashworthiness and self-sealing fuel tanks for survivability and safety

http://www.finmeccanica.com/-/aw139

https://geospatialworld.net//Admincms/Filemanager/connectors/ashx/images/AW139.jpg

.

lol - you think optional equipment impresses us? How do we know you have it??

Your ancient helo's arent even airworthy!

Super Lynx > Nigerian Hangar Exibits

Henry240:
Valour class is obsolete, YES! The data proves this.

Lafayette, F100 et al, we do not have the data to prove they
are obsolete.

If they have the same combat suite they have the same data.

So, are they obsolete?

Henry240:
[s]
- Again you failed to disapprove the point, and the point is we have the capacity to fix them up, and Aradu would be back when it is required.



- Cute, excerpt we had more than you, as usual the year started with Obangame Express, involving 49 ships, another exercise with our west-african partners, the central Naval command exercise, Eastern Naval command exercise, Western Naval command exercise, then a combined Naval exercise which culminated in Treasure guard which involved 13 Nigerian Navy ships.



So actually, you cannot, you neither have the resources or capacity.


- Provide evidence which disapproves the raw data i've consistently provided and cited.


- I can assure you, it won't take us 19 years to train 9 JF-17 thunder pilots.


-Disproven in the stand doesn't equal evidence.



- with your obsolete ships and lone pilot...... Far from it, it has been the source of my laughter all day.[/s]

Henry

Just answer one question:

If the lafayette, Charles De Gaule and F100 frigates use the exact same combat system... are they also obsolete?

I find it strange that you wont answer this question...

jln115:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qr0OcXst59k

#Wrecked

Henry240:
LOL.... My bad, $40 million for mere SARs. LMFAO!

"mere SARs"


- It incorporates an all new integrated "glass" cockpit with a colour liquid crystal display system provides the crew with state-of-the-art technology increasing crew and mission effectiveness.
- Complemented with a Full Authority Digital Engine Control (FADEC) delivers low maintenance, enhanced performance and excellent economy with over 30% more power.
-The Telephonics Ocean-Eye radar is the aircraft's primary mission sensor and allows the crew to detect and track small to large surface contacts at long ranges.
-Complementing the radar is the Sysdel Sea Raven Electronic Support Measures (ESM) suite, which is used for passive target detection and identification.
- A Denel Optronics Argos 410-M Electro Optic Sight System with a forward-looking infra-red (FLIR) sensor and a day camera is used for passive target identification and recording.
- Target tracks and video images can be transmitted to the parent ship in real time using the Datalink unit supplied by Thales Advanced Engineering.

South African components include:

- a Sysdel electronic warfare suite,
- a Saab Grintek Avitronics EW countermeasures system,
- an Aerosud armoured flight crew seats
- as well as an infrared exhaust suppression system
- Denel is supplying an electro-optical sighting system (EOSS) and Tellumat an Identification Friend or Foe system.
- Thales Advanced Engineering was contracted to supply a datalink as a well as a "video grabber", a dedicated bit of hardware that allows the transfer of video material taken by the EOSS to be transmitted to the mothership for further action.
- Reutech Defence Industries and Saab Grintek Communications Systems provided the HF and V/UHF radios.

[size=15pt]Nigeria has no helo that compares!! Most advanced in SSA! I can taste the jelousy! [/size]

agaugust:
[size=15pt] It CANNOT FIGHT a simple Nigerian Shaldag gunboat
.[/size]

Not suprising since it is not an attack helicopter

Henry240:
Valour class is obsolete, YES! The data proves this.


Lafayette, F100 et al, we do not have the data to prove they are obsolete.

They use the same combat suite.

So, if they use the same combat suite... are they also obsolete?

Henry240:
[s]
- the facts are the raw data. The raw data you cannot seem to disapprove. They are the facts.


- nope, please Patrick of Soweto, disprove them?


- they are larger than the Type-056. They are light frigates, not corvettes.

I also seem to remember you affirming that the age of the hull doesn't matter, it's the systems inside that do. As is the case, going by your own admission, both the Thunder and Okpabana after receiving a series of up-grades over their life time, and with the advanced systems they have on board which allows seamless networking, they are amongst the most advanced ships in Africa[/s].

- "raw data" destroyed on the stand.

- nope, those are corvettes... frigates need to be over 3000t

- Citation needed for these capabilities. They are stripped down 60 year old vessels.

Please answer the question: Is the Lafayette, Charles de Gaulle and Saudi F100 frigate obsolete?

agaugust:
They bought mere SAR helicopters for $ 40 million each, price of the Super Lynx....it can buy an ATR-42...British rip off on South Africa !

"mere SAR helicopter"

- It incorporates an all new integrated "glass" cockpit with a colour liquid crystal display system provides the crew with state-of-the-art technology increasing crew and mission effectiveness.
- Complemented with a Full Authority Digital Engine Control (FADEC) delivers low maintenance, enhanced performance and excellent economy with over 30% more power.
-The Telephonics Ocean-Eye radar is the aircraft's primary mission sensor and allows the crew to detect and track small to large surface contacts at long ranges.
-Complementing the radar is the Sysdel Sea Raven Electronic Support Measures (ESM) suite, which is used for passive target detection and identification.
- A Denel Optronics Argos 410-M Electro Optic Sight System with a forward-looking infra-red (FLIR) sensor and a day camera is used for passive target identification and recording.
- Target tracks and video images can be transmitted to the parent ship in real time using the Datalink unit supplied by Thales Advanced Engineering.

South African components include:

- a Sysdel electronic warfare suite,
- a Saab Grintek Avitronics EW countermeasures system,
- an Aerosud armoured flight crew seats
- as well as an infrared exhaust suppression system
- Denel is supplying an electro-optical sighting system (EOSS) and Tellumat an Identification Friend or Foe system.
- Thales Advanced Engineering was contracted to supply a datalink as a well as a "video grabber", a dedicated bit of hardware that allows the transfer of video material taken by the EOSS to be transmitted to the mothership for further action.
- Reutech Defence Industries and Saab Grintek Communications Systems provided the HF and V/UHF radios.

Henry240:
- NNS ohue, NNS Barama, NNS Siri, NNS Ekpo, evidence which say we do. We do not yet have a requirement for Aradu. Aradu is a Frigate not a long endurance patrol vessels.

4 long endurance patrols we have 5 ships available.


- Nope SA navy does not have the capacity to pull of such, only Nigeria does in SSA.


2&3 already answered, come back when you have evidence to the contrary.



*P.S, it's 2016, 19 years after, and SAAF is still stuck with 9 non-combat qualified gripen pilots. Now, that's pathetic.


God bless your Father, but like a wayward son, you have refused to heed his advice.

Meaningless testimony(s) you cannot disapprove, so much for "meaningless".

- small and simple ships easy to fix. Not like a sub or modern frigate.

- Except we did this year in Ex Oxide, Isambar and with the Germans, as we do every year.

- Valour Class uses the same combat suite as those vessles, if it is obsolete so are they?

- Running to a new topic are we? Currently its 14 pilots with 10 more in the final stage of their training. And who says they arent combat qualified?

I dont have to disprove it, it was disproven on the stand.

Yet again we have reached that stage, where you just make the same statement over and over... I guess the SAN has destroyed you today.

A quick write up on the SAAF Lynx used on the Valour Class and Drakensburg

- It incorporates an all new integrated "glass" cockpit with a colour liquid crystal display system provides the crew with state-of-the-art technology increasing crew and mission effectiveness.
- Complemented with a Full Authority Digital Engine Control (FADEC) delivers low maintenance, enhanced performance and excellent economy with over 30% more power.
-The Telephonics Ocean-Eye radar is the aircraft's primary mission sensor and allows the crew to detect and track small to large surface contacts at long ranges.
-Complementing the radar is the Sysdel Sea Raven Electronic Support Measures (ESM) suite, which is used for passive target detection and identification.
- A Denel Optronics Argos 410-M Electro Optic Sight System with a forward-looking infra-red (FLIR) sensor and a day camera is used for passive target identification and recording.
- Target tracks and video images can be transmitted to the parent ship in real time using the Datalink unit supplied by Thales Advanced Engineering.

South African components include:

- a Sysdel electronic warfare suite,
- a Saab Grintek Avitronics EW countermeasures system,
- an Aerosud armoured flight crew seats
- as well as an infrared exhaust suppression system
- Denel is supplying an electro-optical sighting system (EOSS) and Tellumat an Identification Friend or Foe system.
- Thales Advanced Engineering was contracted to supply a datalink as a well as a "video grabber", a dedicated bit of hardware that allows the transfer of video material taken by the EOSS to be transmitted to the mothership for further action.
- Reutech Defence Industries and Saab Grintek Communications Systems provided the HF and V/UHF radios.

Henry240:
No, they are not. We haven't seen their data.


Valour class is obsolete, yes. La fayette, F100, NO! No evidence to proof they are obsolete.


I'm only stating the facts, until you can disprove the facts, they remain what they are, Facts!


Valour class = Obsolete = Fact!

Valour Class uses the same combat suite as those platforms.

So if Valour Class is obsolete... they are too

Yes or no?

Henry240:
- 3, your bought bare, simple SAR helicopters for 13 million a unit. Pathetic!

"Bare simple SAR helicopters"

According to the sales literature, the Super Lynx 300 was developed from the proven Super Lynx 100.

- It incorporates an all new integrated "glass" cockpit with a colour liquid crystal display system provides the crew with state-of-the-art technology increasing crew and mission effectiveness.
- Complemented with a Full Authority Digital Engine Control (FADEC) delivers low maintenance, enhanced performance and excellent economy with over 30% more power.
-The Telephonics Ocean-Eye radar is the aircraft's primary mission sensor and allows the crew to detect and track small to large surface contacts at long ranges.
-Complementing the radar is the Sysdel Sea Raven Electronic Support Measures (ESM) suite, which is used for passive target detection and identification.
- A Denel Optronics Argos 410-M Electro Optic Sight System with a forward-looking infra-red (FLIR) sensor and a day camera is used for passive target identification and recording.
- Target tracks and video images can be transmitted to the parent ship in real time using the Datalink unit supplied by Thales Advanced Engineering.

South African components include:

- a Sysdel electronic warfare suite,
- a Saab Grintek Avitronics EW countermeasures system,
- an Aerosud armoured flight crew seats
- as well as an infrared exhaust suppression system
- Denel is supplying an electro-optical sighting system (EOSS) and Tellumat an Identification Friend or Foe system.
- Thales Advanced Engineering was contracted to supply a datalink as a well as a "video grabber", a dedicated bit of hardware that allows the transfer of video material taken by the EOSS to be transmitted to the mothership for further action.
- Reutech Defence Industries and Saab Grintek Communications Systems provided the HF and V/UHF radios.

[size=15pt]Fact is, its more advanced than any single helicopter in the entire Nigerian Arsenal[/size]

Henry240:
- 2, according to available data, yours use obsolete combat suits.

Ok, so if that data says Valour class is obsolete... is Lafayette, Charles De Gaule and Saudi F100 also obsolete?

Yes or no

Henry240:
According to the facts, they are not modern.


We deal with hard facts not Emotions.



Technically, our youngest Frigate is just under a year old. The modular designs of both NNS Centenary and NNS Unity are such that missiles can be added to them in under 4 months.

1. Which facts and in comparison to what?

2. No, you do not deal in facts - you are dealing in allegations, allegations which did not survive cross-examination

3. In FACT (remeber we deal in fact here), your ONLY frigate is 36 years old. Your cutter are nearly 60 years old and your CORVETTES are 1 year old.

Henry240:
We do not lack the capacity! NNS Ohue and NNS Baranama, the Navy's 2 mine counter-measure ships completed their refits at the Dockyards in Lagos, they also participated in Exercise Treasure Guard in December 28th of 2015.


........You remember Exercise treasure guard right, that Nigerian Navy Exercise which involved 13 Navy Ships, 2 Navy Helicopters and 1 NAF ATR-42 ELINT compliant surveillance plane, spanning the eastern naval command in the bight of biafra down to the western Naval command.... Yes that brilliant, brilliant large scale exercise which the SAN is incapable of pulling off.




Defenceweb published it, defenceweb said it....... If you have any issues go sort it out with defenceweb. What we know is 22 squadron based in capetown which is the SAAF's maritime wing has only one pilot who can land at sea.



No, No..... Not jealousy, just stating the facts. Your obsolete Frigates and your lone seaborne pilot impresses no one.

1. You do lack capacity - aradu has been broken since 2005

2. SAN pulls off 2-3 exercises of that scale per year

3. Defenceweb did not say that, go back and read the article.

4. How are they obsolete? Compared to what? Does that mean Lafayette, De Gaulle and F100 are also relics?

This is so pathetic guy, you find out we are off to India and China for parades and exercises and you launch this tirade based on the meaningless testimony of a man who was destroyed on the stand and an article in Defenceweb that you are mis-quoting... my father told me never to act in emotion... maybe I should give him your number so he can give you the same lecture

agaugust:
[s]
Nigeria too can fit torpedoes and missiles on NNS Centenary and NNS Unity stealth warships.

SAN Valour frigate does NOT have Super Rapid 76mm guns, we have debated that topic here last year, go see SAN official website, your ships have obsolete old 1972 guns removed from scrap yard and repainted. DON'T drag us back to old topics that have been thrashed and proved with credible sources in 2015, it kills the thread.[/s]

Official sources posted show that SAN ordered parts and technicians to work on Super-Rapid's during the time that Spionkop was in re-fit