₦airaland Forum

Image123: @op
7. Read Matthew 23:23 until you see light. These things ought to be done.

Of course they should. As well as the others Jesus mentioned in that same chapter/discourse:

Finally, to insist that Jesus’ statement in verse 23 was directed at the Church means that everything else he said there would apply to the Church as well. Here’s what I mean:

Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, saying: “The Church sits in Moses’ seat. – verses 1-2

The Church says but does not do – verse 3

The Church binds heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. “But all the Church’s works they do to be seen by men. They make their phylacteries broad and enlarge the borders of their garments. “They love the best places at feasts, the best seats in the synagogues, – verse 4-6

“But woe to you, O Church, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.

“Woe to you, O Church, hypocrites! For you devour widows’ houses, and for a pretense make long prayers. Therefore you will receive greater condemnation.

“Woe to you, O Church, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves. - verses 13-16 (NKJV).

I believe you get the point.

See: http://www.acts1711daily.com/2012/10/02/israel-the-church-the-tithing-ordinance-part-iv-common-arguments-in-favour-of-tithing/

and http://www.acts1711daily.com/2012/10/02/israel-the-church-the-tithing-ordinance-part-i-the-purpose-of-the-tithe/

Funny how we never hear of T.B.Joshua's "prophecies" until after the event.

Image123: i don't know for sure if the Bishop exactly said that THE UNIVERSITY wasn't built from TITHES AND OFFERINGS. But whatever, i think if he was lying, his listeners should be very astonished. As in the claim is that he said this openly at Shiloh 2012, in front of the bulk of church members, who are supposed as the contributors to the project. If he lied as alleged, i expect empty seats at the remaining Shiloh messages, or at least some sound of disappointment and unbelief from members.

This really should be the case but only if the "legendary" blind loyalty of his church members were not a factor to be considered in this matter.

Sadly, it is.

Joagbaje: Ephesians 2:15
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace

The verse above makes it clear that Jesus has abolished the law of commandments, contained in ordinances, given to the Jews in the Old Testament. He fulfilled them and abolished them. The laws and commandments of the Old Testament are not relevant to the new creation in Christ Jesus. It’s therefore wrong for you to live your life trying to obey the Law.

Hebrews 7:12
"For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

The Lord Jesus became our High Priest in the New Testament, not in the order of the Aaronic or Levitical priesthood, but in the order of Melchisedec (Hebrews 7:17&21). This signifies an eternal priesthood; a new priesthood, headed by Jesus Christ, different from what obtained in the Old Testament.
Now, the importance of that is this: Jesus Christ has become our High Priest, and He’s not the High Priest of the Old Testament Law; He has a new law. Remember what we read in Hebrews 7:12, that a change in priesthood automatically means a change of the Law. Since the priesthood has been changed and Jesus Christ is now our High Priest in the New Testament, the law has also been changed. That’s why Jesus said in

John 13:34,
"A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another

Love has replaced all the laws and ordinances of the Old Testament (Read Romans 13:8-10)

. In Matthew 22:37-40
"…Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.".

‎​This however doesn’t mean that the Old Testament is not useful to us today.

Romans 15:4
For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

The things written in the Old Testament have been written only for our learning; they’re not the revelations by which we live today as new creations in Christ. Now learn more of what it is to walk in love.

I agree completely with your OP. I actually first learned this from Pastor Chris back in the day. You can imagine my shock when I realised he, like the vast majority of preachers, retained certain Old testament practices such as tithing.

donnie: While you are busy pretending to be the all-knowing christian themometer or police, careful not to unknowing preach another gospel. Those who have demonstrated the power or God in the days of old and even today are very much aware that it is not of works or the attainment of any moral height so stop telling lies. Its is not of works lest any man should boast.

If I may ask, do you know what it mean to be bornagain? When a child is born, does is he/she fully human at birth or he gets more and more human as he gets older? It is the life of God that we received at the new birth makes us born again. I undertand that you are trying to commmunicate or emphasize a relationship with Jesus and the need to live godly above the crave for signs and wonders and I am fully in support, but I must warn you to be carful as you go about it before you offend.

We are the Sons of God today, not tommorrow_ 1Jn3:2. We may not glow with celestial bodies until the rapture but we are His offspings now!
Eternal life as used in the scriptures below is more than living forever, it is Greek: ZOE, refering to the divine life and nature of God.
1Jn5:11-13
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. 13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

I have seen the power of God so I can tell you. Our obedience and submission to God's Word is a product of the overflow of the love of God from our hearts and not so we can receive power from God. Power came when we received the Holyghost. Many have tried working from outside in like you recommend and have ended up frustrated and envious of those whom they think they are better qualified than to walk in the power of God.

My friend, there is a Spirit of Holiness and power in such gatherings as you will find in Christ Embassy. We are aware that it is becasue of the mercy of God and we can only coorperate with the Holy Spirit in sincere worship as he has chosen to abide in our midst.

The miracles inspire reverence and fear of a the most Holy and powerful God and as a result, there is obedience. Make no mistake about it, sicknes and disease and satan will not obey you if you are not concious of righteousness.

This is serious o!

Enigma: ^^^ Bros, correct but clarification and amplification as below.

In respect of the tithe of animals and livestock --- cash substitution was NOT acceptable at all. It had to be the tenth animal under the rod or nothing else. That tenth animal could not even be substituted for another one; if there is an attempt to substitute it, then both the original tenth animal and the intended substitute "become holy and cannot be redeemed". (e.g. Pesin wey say ah this number 10 animal na im fat pass and wan substitute am with thin number 11 --- e go lose the two both be that )

With respect to the tithe of agricultural produce, by default they were NOT supposed to be substituted with money. However, allowance was given to substitute with money on the condition of a PENALTY of 20% of the value of the agricultural produce.

The only time that tithe was authorised to be converted to money was when the place to go for worship was too far to carry the agricultural produce and livestock that were the tithes; in that case it was acceptable to sell the "tithes" (livestock and produce) and convert it to money ----- but then the money was not to be given to anyone (whether G.O., pastor, papa, pope or whatever); instead the "tither" was instructed to use the money to buy whatever his heart desired and generally to jollify himself and his family together with widows, orphans aliens etc.

Leviticus 27 (especially the last few verses) and Deuteronomy 14 especially from verse 22.

@JoeAgbaje,

I was just about posting practically this same thing in response to your assertion that Lev 27 (I think it was verse 31), proves that money could be presented in place of tithes. This is outright falsehood. As Enigma has mentioned already, the only time when money was ever mentioned in relation to tithing was with the second tithe, which was eventually eaten by the tither and companions, in Jerusalem. It was never given to the Levites or priests.

Secondly, we need to understand that the meaning and concept of the word "redeem" with relation to the Jews is different from what obtains in our time. The Torah and Tanakh were not written in English or to the English. They were written in Hebrew/Aramaic and directed at the Jews! SO if we're going to understand what the bible means by "redeeming" the tithe, dictionaries wouldn't be very helpful. Finding out how the Jews understood, interpreted and practiced it will. See this:

The "Second Tithe," which must be consumed by its owners in Jerusalem, is briefly mentioned -- as well as the rules for redeeming this tithe if it is too burdensome to transport to Jerusalem.

http://www.chabad.org/parshah/article_cdo/aid/512591/jewish/Aliya-Summary.htm

Jewish tradition has it that "redeeming" one's second tithe meant that if it is too much to bring all the tithe (agricultural produce) to Jerusalem, you leave it at home and take the money equivalent plus 20% of the value. You then take that money to Jerusalem and buy food there - which you eat in a state of ritual purity as if you were eating the actual stuff.

The money was never given to anyone (preist, levite, GO, MoG, pastor etc.), but used to buy food and eaten as part of celebrations in Jerusalem.

@donnie,

I understand this verse is a favourite among many in CE circles twisted to mean that the Christian is divine, superhuman, bulletproof etc. But a careful, unbiased reading of just the verse itself (even in the KJV) shows its true meaning. Reading it in context (the whole passage or book if possible) gives us the full picture. Cheers!

donnie: Okay o, God had mercy on him. And in His mercy too, he had made us partakers of the divine nature: 2Pet1:4- Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. Happy Sunday

@Donnie,

I'm not arguing against the scriptures that say like in the verse you've just quoted, that the Christian will be made a partaker of God's divine nature. The question is HOW/IN WHAT WAY? Do these scriptures mean that we've become bullet-proof superhumans? Here is the verse in context:


2 May God bless you with his special favor and wonderful peace as you come to know Jesus, our God and Lord, better and better.

3 As we know Jesus better, his divine power gives us everything we need for living a godly life. He has called us to receive his own glory and goodness!

4 And by that same mighty power, he has given us all of his rich and wonderful promises. He has promised that you will escape the decadence all around you caused by evil desires and that you will share in his divine nature.

5 So make every effort to apply the benefits of these promises to your life. Then your faith will produce a life of moral excellence. A life of moral excellence leads to knowing God better.

6 Knowing God leads to self-control. Self-control leads to patient endurance, and patient endurance leads to godliness.

7 Godliness leads to love for other Christians, and finally you will grow to have genuine love for everyone.

8 The more you grow like this, the more you will become productive and useful in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

9 But those who fail to develop these virtues are blind or, at least, very shortsighted. They have already forgotten that God has cleansed them from their old life of sin.

10 So, dear brothers and sisters, work hard to prove that you really are among those God has called and chosen. Doing this, you will never stumble or fall away.

11 And God will open wide the gates of heaven for you to enter into the eternal Kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

- 2 Pet 1:2-10 (NLT)

The passage is generally an admonishment by the Apostle to believers "to work hard to prove that you (they) really are among those God has called and chosen". And he tells us what virtues he wants us to imbibe; patience, self-control, godliness, love, faith etc. He doesn't mention bullet-proofness

Verse 4 which you cited says:

He has promised that you will escape the (moral) decadence all around you caused by evil desires and that you will share in his divine nature.

We have NOT YET escaped the moral decadence in the world.

We do NOT YET share in his divine nature.

These things have NOT YET happened. But they will.

They are some of the "rich and wonderful" PROMISES God has made to the Christian.

Joagbaje: People have always given money as tithe right from bible days

I accosted you over this on another tithing thread a while ago and you just disappeared. Quit spewing this lie every chance you get - provide biblical proof of money presented as tithes in the bible or keep quiet. There's lots of material to twist in support of your tithing scam. This is so not one of them.

Pastor Kun: Knowing Mike Okonkwo for who he is, I am not surprised at this statement. The charlatan is obsessed with cars and he has at least ten Jeeps in his compound. He probably believes life is all about acquiring cars.

donnie: 31-Oct-2012 08:30 by Dcn Yomi Oluremekun (ZA1)
 
I thank God for our man of God (Pst Chris Oyakhilome) for teaching me the word of God.
When one consistently listen to the teaching of God's word, obviously you are been seeded and loaded for life, you cease to be an ordinary person, you are now absolutely divine, as prooved by this testimony.

The crux of the "testimony" - validation for the lying propaganda thats been on since Eden. Man is divine. The Christian is god. Nothing new here.


Years ago, my dad (an unbeliever) had not one, but a barrage of bullets shot at him by robbers. His and our thoughts were not one of divinity or any such nonsense but that God had mercy on him and on us!

This is the only proper response or mindset for times like this, not arrogance disguised as "revelation knowledge" or "thanksgiving" (albeit to Pastor Chris).


Behold, we call those happy who were steadfast. You have heard of the steadfastness of Job, and you have seen the purpose of the Lord, how the Lord is compassionate and merciful. - Ja 5:11 (RSV)


Indeed he was ill, near to death. But God had mercy on him, and not only on him but on me also, lest I should have sorrow upon sorrow. - Ph 2:27


13 Come now, you who say, "Today or tomorrow we will go into such and such a town and spend a year there and trade and get gain";

14 whereas you do not know about tomorrow. What is your life? For you are a mist that appears for a little time and then vanishes.

15 Instead you ought to say, "If the Lord wills, we shall live and we shall do this or that."

16 As it is, you boast in your arrogance. All such boasting is evil.

17 Whoever knows what is right to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.

- Ja 4:13-17 (RSV)

And err. . . I'm surprised seeing @JoeAgbaje here still talking about this tithing issue.

He spewed out certain blatant lies in defense of the fraudulent tithing model being peddled about as bible truth, which I challenged him for scriptural proof over. He just took off.

See his post here - https://www.nairaland.com/1072639/tithing-teachers-us-explain-these/1#12554701

And my response here - https://www.nairaland.com/1072639/tithing-teachers-us-explain-these/2#12555367

Simply providing valid biblical answers to my questions there should be just enough to set the records straight.

Lenny5000: But who is GOD talking to here in Malachi, that is the question! In truth this little part that people use is part of a long verse, and if the whole is not read, then this verse would be out of Context. Please read the whole story leading to this verse, because it seems GOD is angry and talking to a whole different set of people than what people are made to believe. So read the whole Malachi first.. Thanks and Godbless

Hello @Lenny5000,

It would appear we got the same idea at about the same time

I just started asking peeps I've been discussing these issues with (not just tithing) what they would do if their beloved demigods renounced some of their false doctrines - Would they change too? Walk away from the MoG? Move on to the next available MoG who'll preach what their itching ears desire? Believe me, you don't want to know the answers I've been getting

But the summary is: "Christians" (generally) live by every word that comes out of the mouths of their MoGs, scripture or no scripture. Period.

Regarding the tithing issue, see this series on our blog - http://www.acts1711daily.com/2012/10/02/israel-the-church-the-tithing-ordinance/

pak: I've been in a similar situation. Don't challenge him, I'll advice you to schedule an appointment with him to explain your view point and your findings/conclusion.
That was exactly what I did in my own case. and the Pastor(we had a close relationship) also explained why he continued to preach the Tithe message. Though, I didn't fully agree but I understood his points (had to do with the level of spiritual maturity of his flock . . . .actually a topic for another day).


The issue is that, Tithing is not a Christian Practice. It was only obtainable in Judaism. If you doubt me, check through the new testament, if there was ever any verse advocating that Christians should Tithe. - None.

The only time Jesus talked about tithing was when he indicated that it was a less important issue in the Law (Judaism) - Matt 23v23.
I don't think we have any Jew here on Nairaland

Christians all through the new testament were only encouraged to give of their own freewill.

True words there. See full article series on tithing here - http://www.acts1711daily.com/2012/10/02/israel-the-church-the-tithing-ordinance/

Image123: He is stating the simple truth in plain format. God's Word has not come to an end.
2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
ALL SCRIPTURE remain given by inspiration, and profitable for doctrine and for instruction. The issue is never with the law, for the law is good and holy. The issue is with what we do with the law. In the OT, the law was kept to be righteous. In the NT, it is discovered that you can't keep the law. You have to first be righteous, then keep the law. Until each person understand these basics, there will continue to be/remain a stumbling and a veil. It has already been shown in other threads that Leviticus made provisions for giving tithe in monetary form. All the gra gra people are doing here, and trying to confuse people that tithe is meant to be eaten by the owner is incomplete and misleading information. they are not too different from the ones they accuse as scammers and frauds. i hope to rest my case.

Tis late here. Hope to post a response to this soon.

Joagbaje: Pastors didn't change it to money. People still gave money in bible days , as tithes , they gave money equivalent of the value of wounded animals etc. people still give tithes of material things today. People mostly give cash because it's a general medium of exchange . Israelites were primarily farmers. Their proceeds were usually used for services in the terbernaclre. I can give material thing as tithe. A laptop dealer can give laptop as tithe since the church may need it. Same goes for generator or give money equivalent

@Joagbaje,

Although you haven't shifted position on this matter (and never will, unless CE does), you come accross to me as having mellowed down a bit o. Just my impression

Here's my response to your post:

Joagbaje: Pastors didn't change it to money.

This is outright false! And you just proved it here with the usual excuse of ancient Israel being agrarian. God never allowed for money to be turned in as tithe - never. The Clergy "helped" God out with that part and this is why it doesn't hold up - it is a man-made modification to the biblical model, under which it was always agricultural produce from the holy land of Israel!

Joagbaje: People still gave money in bible days , as tithes ,

This too, is absolute falsehood!

See, I don't know how you people can so easily add to God's Word, despite multiple biblical warnings against such!

1 “And now, Israel Church, listen carefully to these laws and regulations that I am about to teach you. Obey them so that you may live, so you may enter and occupy the land the LORD, the God of your ancestors, is giving you.

2 Do not add to or subtract from these commands I am giving you from the LORD your God. Just obey them. – Deut 4:1-2 (NLT).


6 Do not add to his words, or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar. - Pro 30:6 (NIV)


If truly people did give money as their tithes in bible days, I challenge you or anyone to provide book, chapter and verse as proof! A single bible verse/passage would do.

Joagbaje: they gave money equivalent of the value of wounded animals etc.

Please provide book, chapter and verse for this as well. Anyone can claim anything. Please provide biblical proof!

Joagbaje: People mostly give cash because it's a general medium of exchange . Israelites were primarily farmers.

Money was already the medium of exchange way before God gave the law to Moses! The bible tells us that when Abraham needed land to use as burying place, he bought a piece of land in exchange for money - not cattle or any other form of agricultural produce! And he did that because money was their general medium of exchange, not cattle/farm produce. Although one may argue that the barter system was not entirely phased out at the time. See Genesis 23:12-16

Abraham's account took place well over 400 years before Moses was even born - over 4 centuries! Think about that.

Joagbaje: I can give material thing as tithe.

This isn't about what you can give as tithe. You can do whatever you please. It is about what God instructed to be brought to him as tithe!

And just in case you resort to saying either God, Moses or the Israelites did not know money existed or was used as medium of exchange, see this excerpt from an article series on tithing:

=========================================================================================

Fact #2 – According to the bible and Jewish history, the tithe was never money – only edible items!

Every single biblical and historical reference to tithing either directly or indirectly limited it to only edible items. See; Lev. 27:30, 32, Num. 18:27, Num. 18:28, Deut 12:17, Deut. 14:22, Deut. 14:23, Deut. 26:12, 2 Chron. 31:5, 2 Chron. 31:6, Neh. 10:37, Neh. 13:5, Mal. 3:10 & Matt. 23:23 (verses where the word “tithe” is used in the bible).

For years, advocates of Christian tithing spread the lie that God’s insistence on Agricultural produce was because money did not exist! Or maybe God didn’t know it did. Well, here’s my response to that, using the bible alone (there’s even more evidence from both Jewish & secular history):

Well over 400 years before Moses, Abraham had to buy a portion of land with a cave in it for use as a burial place and paid money in exchange for it!

12 Then Abraham bowed himself down before the people of the land;

13 and he spoke to Ephron in the hearing of the people of the land, saying, “If you will give it, please hear me. I will give you money for the field; take it from me and I will bury my dead there.”

14 And Ephron answered Abraham, saying to him,

15 “My lord, listen to me; the land is worth four hundred shekels of silver. What is that between you and me? So bury your dead.”

16 And Abraham listened to Ephron; and Abraham weighed out the silver for Ephron which he had named in the hearing of the sons of Heth, four hundred shekels of silver, currency of the merchants. – Genesis 23: 12-16 (NKJV)

So money existed at least four centuries before Moses! God was aware of this, so was Moses and the rest of the Hebrews. Yet every single reference to the tithe, throughout the bible, directly or indirectly indicates its content – edible items – food!

If God wanted money as tithes from the Israelites, he would simply have said so!

As a matter of fact, he did mention money once in relation to tithing. The only time he ever did:

24 “But if the journey is too long for you, so that you are not able to carry the tithe, or if the place where the LORD your God chooses to put His name is too far from you, when the LORD your God has blessed you,

25 “then you shall exchange it for money, take the money in your hand, and go to the place which the LORD your God chooses.

26 “And you shall spend that money for whatever your heart desires: for oxen or sheep, for wine or similar drink, for whatever your heart desires; you shall eat there before the LORD your God, and you shall rejoice, you and your household. – Deuteronomy 14: 24-26 (NKJV)

This commandment had to do with the second tithe which was to be eaten in Jerusalem. When an Israelite who’d been particularly blessed by God, lived far away from Jerusalem and had too much to carry with him as tithe to the feast, God graciously permitted he sell his tithe in exchange for money, take the money with him to Jerusalem and when he got there, hand the money over to the Levites as his tithe? No! He was to spend the tithe money on whatever kind of food and drink he wanted for himself and those with him for celebrations! He was allowed to buy anything – whatever his heart desired – even strong (alcoholic) drink!

God never required the Jews to give money as tithe!

=========================================================================================

Source: Israel, the Church & the Tithing Ordinance Part III – Strange Facts About Tithing - http://www.acts1711daily.com/2012/10/02/israel-the-church-the-tithing-ordinance-part-iii-strange-facts-about-tithing/

The full article series - Israel, the Church & the Tithing Ordinance - http://www.acts1711daily.com/2012/10/02/israel-the-church-the-tithing-ordinance/

Seewealth: please mention the 3 types of tithes. i can only identify 2

See - http://www.acts1711daily.com/2012/10/02/israel-the-church-the-tithing-ordinance-part-iii-strange-facts-about-tithing/

The full series - http://www.acts1711daily.com/2012/10/02/israel-the-church-the-tithing-ordinance/

packman: i just want to know if pastors pay their tithe's cos they keep preaching about tithe in churches but i really want to know if pastor's pay their tithe


please drop your comment.......

Whether or not pastors pay their tithes does not validate Christian tithing. It just shows how much of a confused and unbiblical model we have.

See - http://www.acts1711daily.com/2012/10/02/israel-the-church-the-tithing-ordinance/

Very funny thread

But this issue has been discussed to the death on this forum na. Choi! Wish I could oblige you guys o. Its just the time to keep up with replies etc. Unless I'm allowed to post, maybe once in a couple of weeks

Image123: Wolfers, that's a new one.What does it mean my dear? i wasn't the one that talked about the program been WELL ATTENDED, or of MORE AND MORE people. na your pikin Kunle talk am. i was just playing with him but e be like say the thing pain you sotay you wan rename a whole grown up.

Sorry. Didn't know you were kidding. Sure didn't sound like it.

Seewealth: please mention the 3 types of tithes. i can only identify 2

This thread isn't meant for such discussions - only as an invite. We did discuss all three types at the meeting and are working on a write up based on the outline used that day. I should post it here when its ready. However, the fact that you can identify two shows you've been studying beyond Malachi 3, which is usually where it starts and ends for most.

Image123: if only you attended the program, they may have recorded up to 26people. you late.

The premium you WoLFers place on numbers is one red flag I believe consistently gives you away. The way that leads to life isn't the one with multitudes on it.

Image123: i v.much doubt they were gathered in Jesus' name.

Because they hold a different opinion than yours means they did not gather in Jesus' name?

Image123: you for invite Bonnke na, that man dey pull crowd literally.


Again, it begs the question, what is the law? There are so many 'aspects' of law. The nigerian law for instance, or company law. Unfortunately for you and your 30 (here i was thinking 120 or Gideon's 300 was small), there is nothing like the law of tithe. For example, here below are some two 'aspects' of the law that i keep. Am i in danger of loosing my salvation(whatever that means)?
.

Your ability to skirt around issues and willfully play ignorant regarding this tithing issue used to amaze me.

Pastor Kun: @Petres007

You may wish to make some inputs as i came late and missed out on some parts of the program.

You very nicely summarized it all o. Although you left out some points which we discussed before you showed up. I'm pressed for time now so I'll just name the keypoints I believe we discussed before your arrival.

1. The biblical Purpose/Reason for the tithe.
2. The contents of the tithe. Was it money? Agric produce? Or both?
3. The recipientS of the tithe (as there were multiple, clearly identified recipients).
3. The (3) types of tithes - their purpose, how they were to be treated/handled, where, when, whom etc.
4. Those who biblically were tax tithe exempt (also recipients of the tithe).
5. Other instructions regarding tithing.

This isn't exhaustive and I'm not sure at which point you came in

Cheers!

destinedtee: Considering Matthew 5:44(But i say unto you,Love your enemies,bless them that curse you,and pray for them that despitefully use you and persecute you) and Luke 6:27(But i say unto you which hear,Love your enemies,do good to them which hate you) Is it then biblical to desire their hurt,wish them evil or even pray against them?

Interesting! We'd be discussing this topic in a bible seminar in Lagos in a couple of weeks. If you're in Lagos and would like to attend, you might want to keep an eye on this group (its free to join) - https://www./bibleexpose

Cheers!

sophy09: I have heard a lot about this church for some time now and numerous people I know go there. There are talks that you get delivered from every and any spiritual problems one has and that the prayers are very powerful. My friends who go there seems to have changed a lot(they are sort of paranoid). All the prayers are either die, back fire, paralyze your enemies. Well I see nothing wrong with that if that is their belief and their prayers are answered but the thing that baffles me is that they feel someone(foundational/ancestral/witchcraft powers) is always behind their problem. In some cases they maybe true which I do not dispute but is it in all cases? Another thing about them is that they do not trust anyone. When they see you in their dreams wahala. It was funny when she told me someone in her church was behind her problem. I was surprised. With the way she prays the person should either be dead or paralyzed by now and her problem solved.
Maybe I am looking at it in another way I don't know but I will like to know your take on the church. Thanks

Interesting! We'd be discussing this topic in a bible seminar in Lagos in a couple of weeks. If you're in Lagos and would like to attend, you might want to keep an eye on this group (its free to join) - https://www./bibleexpose

Cheers!

TalkingBird: Did we not read in (1 Corinthians 1:10) "10 Now I exhort YOU, brothers, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ that YOU should all speak in agreement, and that there should not be divisions among YOU, but that YOU may be fitly united in the same mind and in the same line of thought."

We must identify the truth and follow it. If any teaches what is unscriptural, then that person or group does not have the truth. The person or group simply belong to the Devil according to Jesus Christ John 8:44) "44 YOU are from YOUR father the Devil, and YOU wish to do the desires of YOUR father. That one was a manslayer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of [the lie]."

And the result will be (Matthew 7:21-23) "21 “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew YOU! Get away from me, YOU workers of lawlessness."

So if any finds himself were falsehood is taught, the person should according to Revelation 18:4 get out of there "And I heard another voice out of heaven say: “Get out of her, my people, if YOU do not want to share with her in her sins, and if YOU do not want to receive part of her plagues."
also (2 Corinthians 6:16, 17) 16 And what agreement does God’s temple have with idols? For we are a temple of a living God; just as God said: “I shall reside among them and walk among [them], and I shall be their God, and they will be my people.” 17 “‘Therefore get out from among them, and separate yourselves,’ says Jehovah, ‘and quit touching the unclean thing’”; “‘and I will take YOU in.’”

1 Cor 1:10! Excellent scriptural admonition to the end that we may be united in thought and be without divisions among us! Very true words there.

^^^

[quote author=m.k.o2005]@OP AND ALL on this thread,no intentions of breaking the rules of not raising any kind of arguments[/quote]Great! You broke the rule unintentionally then.

rhymz: I will love to join provided that the argument wont hover alone around the bible or keep participants' arguments in the confines of what the bible stipulates. I have made this argument before in a roman catholic discussion bible session when I was serving in Sokoto. It was heated and I got labelled all sorts of anti-christ epiteths just because I wont subscribe to unsubstantiated claims in the bible, and the irregularities in the claims of supporters both the old and the new testament.

Hello rhymz,

This discussion will be based strictly on the bible. Relevant references to Jewish/Church history may be made but nothing more.

^^^

Donmeca: @Mkmyers45 That's another angle to it my dear but even with that, we still need to visit d needy and put a smile on their faces. But I still want to to be clear on tithing and what a tithe truly is--10% of what exactly?

Hello Donmeca,

The tithing issue has been discussed over and over in this section. You might want to do a search for them and read through.

If you're in Lagos or will be on Saturday the 15th, you might want to join us for a discussion of the topic. See this thread - https://www.nairaland.com/1044221/invitation-bible-based-discussion-tithing-ordinance/

Cheers!

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bump^^