₦airaland Forum

Guyman02:
We should learn to give praise to anybody who has done well. I think the Igbos have really worked hard to survive in Nigeria after their losses in the war. Nigeria has not been really fair to them and other citizens in the West and the North.
Sometimes I respect OBJ for one thing, he commends you if you do well and never forgives if you offend no matter your tribe.
The Yorubas gained a lot from the war with Awo as Finance Minister, they controlled the banks until Elumelu came into the system with Standard Trust bank and changed banking in Nigeria.
The bought all the shares in the major multinationals like Nestle, NBL, Cadbury, Kewalrams, Leventis etc (Igbos entered the market when there was a global meltdown and lost so much money in the ensuing kalo -kalo) Yorubas controlled the oil industry (Shell, Mobil, Chevron, AGIP etc) because the abokis only wanted the money and political power not who works there as indigenous staff and the Niger Deltans were too backward to fit in.

The Igbos were far ahead of the regions in Nigeria and were recognised as the fastest growing economy in the world in early sixties.
In the North they are always victims of attack by the Hausas as a result of jealousy and every riot starts with the looting and burning of their shops and churches.
The Igbos are the tribe that is truly unifying Nigerians, because they live in the midst of all tribes whether Nupe, Fulani, Kagoro, Ogbomosho you find them there.
Unlike the Hausas and Fulanis, they make no attempt to takeover your land and forcefully rule over you. They would rather earn their money and negotiate to buy portions from you and still pay homage to your native traditions without imposing their culture on you.

My Igbo friend, please substantiate or provide some authenticity of all this because everything except for the part about the ND people not being in the oil industry sounds like blind conjecture.

Also the majority Yoruba Western region was far ahead of the other regions economically  in the 50s and 60s and mining taxes from all of the regions originally had to be used to make up for the fiscal imbalance between the Western and the other regions. . .

lol, the woman in that portrait has a weird smile

As for the question in the title, Edo are sometimes erroneously referred to as Yoruba by people who aren't all that knowledgeable about Nigeria. I've seen it in about 6 different websites so far.

See these links for example:


http://www.historywiz.com/benin.html

http://exploringafrica.matrix.msu.edu/students/curriculum/m9/activity3.php

rabzy:
A lot of these are really colorful, but can we have more traditional clothes from everyday people and not the ones worn by nobility, i want to see the compare and contrast with those worn by the yorubas and the igbos.

From my experience, most Edos don't wear traditional clothes much except for special occasions. That's why I don't have many of the pictures of everyday people you're requesting. If you can find any, feel free to post them. I have a few more I will post but most of them are not everyday people.

It may lead to economic nationalism in the Eastern Region, which can pursue a policy of blockade of the North, by refusing it access to the sea, over and under the River Niger, except upon payment of tolls. It may lead to economic warfare between the North on the one hand, and the Eastern or Western regions on the other, should they decide to fix protective tariffs which will make the use of the ports of the Last and West uneconomic for the North.

lol, what?


Most of this speech sounds not merely wrong, but nearly comical. I have no doubt this bizarre speech played no part in their decision to stay.

Here are some better reasons:


“This New Nation called Nigeria, should be an estate of our great grandfather, Uthman Dan Fodio. We must ruthlessly prevent a change of power. We use the minorities in the North as willing tools, and the South, as conquered territory and never allow them to rule over us, and never allow them to have control over their future.”  ---Sir Ahmadu Bello, Sardauna of Sokoto in THE PARROT of October 12, 1960



“The conquest to the sea is now in sight. When our god-sent Ahmadu Bello said some years ago that our conquest will reach the sea shores of Nigeria, some idiots in the South were doubting its possibilities. Today have we not reached the sea? Lagos is reached. It remains Port-Harcourt. It must be conquered and taken.”  --- Mallam Bala Garuba in WEST AFRICAN PILOT, December 30, 1964.


^^^^

someone verify the authenticity of these quotes. West African Pilot, for example was probably biased but I doubt these statements would have been fabricated out of  nowhere, especially the first one, which was in 1960, before open dissent and antagonism. . .

alj harem1:
70% of the igbos on this forum if not whole wide, were schooled in the western region from ibadan, to abeokuta to lagos even to kwara so i really do not see any comparison here with the west they are clearly better than igbo in all areas of adult life

I think uninformed and assumptive comments like these are the genesis of the mentality that you are complaining about. It takes two to tango. One man left alone does not complain and chest beat. When he is denigrated so many times, he fights back verbally and even continues fighting and keeps that mentality even after the fight is over.

GEJ govt did invest more in education, though.

Don't know what Buhari would do . Probably wouldn't even be on his radar as far as spending.

fstranger1:
Look WAEC and SAT cannot be compared.

I took both and I can tell you that the focus and emphasis of the two exams are different. WAEC is a certificate exam, it tests your mastery of ehat you were thought in secondary school. The SAT on the other hand is a projective exam that seeks to test your readiness for college grade work.


May be JAMB and SAT. Even at that, JAMB is not a standardized exam. It is a wuruwuru exam, being passed off as some sort of standardized exam. The more you study for the exam ( meaning that the more you cram) , the better you do. Scores dont vary that much on SAT. But for JAMB, questions are straightforward and fairly easy for the prepared. SAT depends to some extent on your test taking skills.

Oh, okay. Thanks for clearing that up.

Fine. Add Awolowo. But then you have to add Ahmadu Bello, Rawlings, Julius Nyerere and other people who don't necessarily have that giant charisma on the continental scale that I thought this was about (even though they are influential and have a lot of prestige.)

Nkrumah was made co-president of another African country after he was kicked out of his! Instead of merely granting him asylum and some degree of lifestyle support in recognition of Ghana's financial assistance to that country under his leadership, he was made co-president. Not a subordinate. Not a government adviser. To what can that be attributed? A very POWERFUL swagger.


Ojukwu won over 90% of Igbos hearts (a rough estimate, probably higher) before the war (with his apparent success at Aburi) and during and after and won recognition by multiple countries inside and outside of Africa. Biafran swagger? I think so.


Awolowo couldn't sway all Yoruba to get behind him and agitate to get the Northern soldiers to leave the West despite his efforts before the war and then before independence there were those in the West who strongly opposed him (Ibadan comes to mind here) and what he stood for. Can we say the same thing about Nkrumah, Sankara, etc.?










(Oh yeah, I forgot to add Jomo Kenyatta to my original list)

lol. S.L. Akintola was reportedly more charismatic than Awolowo. As for Awolowo, I think you may be confusing prestige and sagacity (the major characteristic usually attributed to him) for charisma. Charisma isn't the be all and end all of politics, anyways. Nkrumah nearly ruined Ghana's economy despite all his charisma, while Awolowo did the opposite for his region (and incidentally, both were involved with cocoa in this regard.)

Question for those who know more about Nigeria's educational system  (I know nothing really). Someone said the WAEC exams can be compared to the SAT subject tests. Is this in fact true? And what is the passing grade for a WAEC subject (what number/percentage out of what number/percentage to get a credit)? I ask because for the SAT subject tests, in America, around 50-60% get above a 650 out of 800 (which might be like an 80/100 in a way). In addition, is there any data on just how badly the students are failing? (By a lot or by a little) What are the mean scores, std dev., etc.

Haile Selassie (also politically brilliant)

Thomas Sankara

Patrice Lumumba

Kwame Nkrumah

Nelson Mandela

Nnamdi Azikiwe

Chukwuemeka Ojukwu

That's the real list right there. Anything else is fabrication.

SEFAGO:
But what about quantum theory, string theory very complex stuff?

It can be done. Have faith.

SEFAGO:
Second have you examined the structure of African languages. They are primitive to the core.

Please elaborate on this.

Ughh. Disgusting.



And of course she's happy. The old guy's gonna pass away soon and she'll be left with something in his will, or some of his property. . .

revolt:
Give credits to whom deserves honour if I remember the benin empire was brought down by the British plus they didn't suffer a quarter of what igbos saw but till today after almost two centuries the effects still strong on em. Igbo NDA!!!!!

lol, what effects? Are Benin people roaming the countryside as almajiris and selling suya?

And the very fact that they bounced back from total destruction of their main city and many villages and went on to surpass folks in the ND, Middlebelt, west, and east who didn't experience such should show how out of place this "bounce back" idea is in discussions of economic competence or other competence. What are groups who naturally attained any great heights supposed to do, NOT bounce back? There's no way that could happen. The "Igbo DNA" thing is even funnier, guy, please identify the Igbo "bounce back" gene.  

Adekunle Fajuyi? respected? He was a covert coupist, right?

if I didn't know that the Northerners were so damn backwards that nothing short of complete cultural and social revolution by actual Hausa/Northern leadership and communities could make them catch up with any group in Nigeria economically, educationally etc, I might have actually agreed with the op to some extent. The Hausas never had a chance of catching up with Igbos, and even if all the oil money over the last 40 years had been channeled exclusively to the North and to no other part of the country, many Igbos would just move to the North and economically dominate them through sheer hard work


if I hadn't stumbled upon the fact that the majority Yoruba Western region was by far the richest region in terms of revenue prior to independence I might have agreed with the point of the OP. It seems that when left to their own rule, the Yoruba know how to progress just fine in economic and educational areas and even surpass many other groups in Africa. . .

It seems to be the case that some are mistaking haphazard military rule by mostly Northern elite for the near independent control of the pace of development of the different regions. I always find this bitter Yoruba/Igbo rivalry tragically amusing. For every great Igbo man or woman in some area I can almost always think of an equivalent Yoruba and vice versa, yet the arguments and denigration never seem to stop. . .

He "delected" it. He didn't delete it.

[quote author=eku_bear link=topic=581958.msg7505240#msg7505240 date=1294706997]@PhysicsQED: WTF happened to all those states?  Today, they pretty much have nothing. Just kinda surprising they have nothing to show for what they once had.[/quote]Kingdoms and empires fall. And some are brought down forcibly if they fail to do what the Ethiopians originally did or, to a much greater extent, what the Japanese did and attempt to modernize and acquire outside technology and knowledge.

As for the kingdom of Kongo in particular it tore itself apart with internal strife, before the modern era, much like what happened in modern times in the actual Congo.       So they approached the modern era, and the time of colonialism very far from their past height, and with little to show for their respectable past.


I wrote something here (#4):

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-497272.256.html#msg6585592

that is relevant to this question. Most of those empires just reached their heights and fell.

I'm not sure whether democracy, traditional or modern, or monarchy is superior in ability to keep empires/kingdoms/states going and prosperous for longer periods of time, but I do believe democracy is superior in preventing civil war or other internal conflict.

[quote author=ndu_chucks link=topic=582778.msg7505172#msg7505172 date=1294705919]@PhysicsMHD,  Please point out the spin, I'm big enough to accept valid correction. I dey wait. Why does your user name keep changing from thread to thread? Lets hope you haven't been spending too much time in the romance area and harassing the girls in manners that get you banned

You and jason have to do better than name calling.[/quote]"As far as the on shore oil fields are concerned, appropriate derivations are in place and the states where those fields are located are appropriately compensated." lol@ this? What is "appropriate"? The garbage derivation they get right now?


"Your reps can decide to adjust the numbers as they see fit," lol@ this, can they in fact do so, or will a massive argument involving far-away parasites ensue if numbers are adjusted to 1950-60s types of numbers.


" that’s what democracy is all about.   Now in order to pay the North off with some of the proceeds of the on shore oil fields, you’d also have to repay the funds provided from ground nut exports, most of which was used to pay your salaries, build some of your infrastructure, and actually develop some of the very oil fields in question.  I dey go come." - utter rubbish, read through the thread I linked to earlier.


And why does it concern you what my username is going to be next? I always say who I am, regardless. Why is jason's username different now? Why is DapoBear's, Blackteeth, etc. Why does it matter? I don't even go to the romance section so leave off of that.

Dede1:
Pal, I am of the view you are more than knowledgeable to request for the source.

Perhaps your own mind. Or maybe a fiction novel.

Dede1:
I guess you know as much as I do that politics is very local. The cradle of any political system points to a certain village form of the government of the people by the people and for the people before its transformation to either oligarchy or monarchy due to certain circumstances.

The unforeseen circumstances which transformed traditional democracy into traditional monarchy is the factor that set Ndigbo apart from dissimilar ethnic groups in cesspit called Nigeria. The traditional village democracy that transverses Igbo land remained unalloyed by both the factors considered foreseen or unforeseen circumstances even with the introduction of “Warrant Chiefs” by the colonial British.

Every successful country and government had allowed the infusion of traditional and cultural dictates into the system. I shall never call for Nigeria to adopt Igbo traditional democratic system but will agitate for republic of Igbo land where such traditional and cultural values shall be incorporated into the system of government they prefer.   

All the so-called empires that dotted the surface of African soil were all VILLAGE EMPIRES.

Point taken, however, this is quite different from the OP, who was suggesting that non-Igbo people adopt a style of government that some of them have moved past, so what you've said here is not particularly relevant to my post. His was not a particularly bad suggestion, but I think it doesn't take realities of different peoples' inclinations into account.


Also, I wouldn't call Mali, Songhai, Axum, or Nubia, village empires. Mali, for example had several major cities and multiple vassal kingdoms.


Below is a Portuguese depiction of part of the kingdom of Kongo, a very large state, with a centralized system:

https://wysinger.homestead.com/loo_op.jpg

Clearly, not a "village empire."

[quote author=ndu_chucks link=topic=582778.msg7505152#msg7505152 date=1294705464]Ewooo, abi this man can’t read ni?  Where did I mention that groundnut proceeds exclusively funded the said development? All I was pointing out to you is that, you may be required to pay for past benefits you enjoyed as a condition. Now, there is always the option of using weapons as Dede1 suggested, to have your way[/quote]So much delusion and deceit. In one human being!

The north should pay the entire south which bankrolled the colonial development of any part of the North

Probably wouldn't even have been a single (Western) secondary school in the North if the British couldn't pay for the costs with Southern labor and resources. . .

[quote author=ndu_chucks link=topic=582778.msg7505093#msg7505093 date=1294703934]@PhysicsMHD, what are you going on about? I was responding to the topic of this thread. What do you disagree with in my post?[/quote]This:


[quote author=ndu_chucks link=topic=582778.msg7504993#msg7504993 date=1294701990]As far as the on shore oil fields are concerned, appropriate derivations are in place and the states where those fields are located are appropriately compensated. Your reps can decide to adjust the numbers as they see fit, that’s what democracy is all about.   Now in order to pay the North off with some of the proceeds of the on shore oil fields, you’d also have to repay the funds provided from ground nut exports, most of which was used to pay your salaries, build some of your infrastructure, and actually develop some of the very oil fields in question.  I dey go come.[/quote]How do you sleep at night, ndu chuks? How do you live with the web of lies you insist on spinning?

[quote author=eku_bear link=topic=582778.msg7505092#msg7505092 date=1294703866]The Sharia issue is something I have mixed feelings about. I've never lived in Utah, but that state is heavily dominated by the LDS (Mormon Church). Their religion is not the law of the land. . . but even things like simple alcohol is very difficult to get, I am told.

Yet despite this, things function splendidly in that state.

I'm obviously against non-Muslims being taken to Sharia courts, even in a Sharia state. But if it Muslim/Muslim only affairs, should I be opposed to it? I'm a secularist, but I'm also a federalist. In this, secularism and federalism conflict, I think. . .

Hard to say what the right answer is.[/quote]The right answer is clearly the repeal of all sharia related  laws or courts that contravene any other REAL law.

One cannot selectively apply "states' rights" when it suits one (to be able to enforce Sharia) against the provisions of standard federal law, which do not allow for the stoning to death of adulterers or the death sentence for adultery, among other things, but then assert that others cannot claim states' rights to 50% or greater derivation of proceeds from state resources against the current governmental arrangement. It's just power-drunk hypocrisy.

If the North wants Sharia, they MUST go for confederation, true federalism, or separation. Of course they won't do any of these.

[quote author=ndu_chucks link=topic=582778.msg7504993#msg7504993 date=1294701990]The idea of paying the North, East, West, or South off is ridiculous on several levels. First off, 90% of the crude oil exported in the past 10 years or so have come from offshore activities.  Accoording to international laws, that oil belongs to Nigeria and not to any coastal region. I don’t believe you’d find anyone living in the ocean or who can claim that his ancestors lived there(abi dem get mammy water clan for ND ni  ) Clearly, you cannot give away what is not yours.


As far as the on shore oil fields are concerned, appropriate derivations are in place and the states where those fields are located are appropriately compensated. Your reps can decide to adjust the numbers as they see fit, that’s what democracy is all about.   Now in order to pay the North off with some of the proceeds of the on shore oil fields, you’d also have to repay the funds provided from ground nut exports, most of which was used to pay your salaries, build some of your infrastructure, and actually develop some of the very oil fields in question.  I dey go come.[/quote]lol @ this nonsense. How do the same bullshit claims keep popping up over and over again. So much delusion in one tiny little mind.


Read through all of this thread:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-563542.64.html#msg7294689

and see how parasitic you sound. Why can't you have enough faith in your own people to stand without oil money?

@ Baro, is the fountain still working/running?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/Benin_Bronzes%2C_Horniman_Museum_3.jpg


Benin bronze at the Horniman Museum.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/42/Benin_Bronzes%2C_Horniman_Museum.jpg/399px-Benin_Bronzes%2C_Horniman_Museum.jpg


Benin bronzes at the Horniman Museum.

https://farm3.static.flickr.com/2494/3758838319_12dfae5ec2_z.jpg?zz=1



Nigeria - Edo Vessel Lid in the Form of a Leopard Head (Indianapolis Museum of Art)

Nigeria
Edo people
Creation date: 1501-1600
Materials: brass
Dimensions 7 3/4 x 4 1/4 x 2 1/2 in.

"The regal face of the leopard inspired this cast brass lid, an excellent instance of an early work from the Kingdom of Benin, combining a refined naturalism with an ornamental surface treatment. Tthe entire surface is covered with detailed designs consisting of concentric circles, interlocking teeth, and patterns within patterns. The status of the object is evident in both the prestigious metal of which it is made and the representation of the leopard, a powerful animal with royal associations. Functionally, this lid would have covered a container used to store small items, such as kola nuts, beads, or shells.

Though the exact dates of Benin objects are unknown, two clues to the early production of this piece are the lid’s stylistic similarity to castings of full leopard bodies at this time and the thinness of the metal. Thinner casts indicate a paucity of copper, a component of brass, which was scarce before the Edo increased trade with the Portuguese."

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9a/Benin_kingdom_Louvre_A97-4-1.jpg


Warriors holding their ceremonial swords. Sculpture of the Benin Kingdom. Bronze, 16th-18th century, Nigeria.

H. 40 cm (15 ½ in.), 33 cm (12 ¾ in.)

deposit from the Musée national des arts d'Afrique et d'Océanie