₦airaland Forum

hardwerk:
op first and foremost your spa is too clumsy and wet ...no matter the taste the appearance alone is bad

You do realise it's all gotten from a blog and not the OP's?

igbodefender:
Ika is Igbo. Stop distorting history.

Ika is Ika. Stop pushing Igbo.

What RedboneSmith said. I myself don't know what to think about Ika and Ukwuani people but the Enuani clan as about as authentic and central Igbo gets in linguistic terms at the least. Asaba Igbo is just an off-shoot of the Onitsha dialect and it's easier to understand than (aside from the obvious Izzi-Ezza/Waawa) the dialects they speak in Abia State and most parts of Imo State. No one grounded in Enuani matters would even dispute that.

gerg:
I disagree with you on Oshimili being closer to how they speak in Anambra than Ika. Anioma ethnics are basically one language with different intonation. Enuani happens to lean more towards Igbos than the others but that doesn't make it closer to them than it is to other Anioma groups.

Take for instance, language formation in all Aniomas are the same. One quick example that came to my mind is the eradication of consonants in the possessive pronoun. and even the ones that retained the consonants is basically similar between all Anioma groups. Please ignore my poor local writing. find if difficult writing some local words. Most Igbos woul say Nke ya for his own but we in Anioma say Nke e. Nke gi is Nkeiii in Anioma. Obum mu (ie, it's me) is Mu do in Enuani and Me ro in Ika. Obuya is Ya do in Enuani, ya ro in Ika. I can go on and on. Language formation in Anioma is basically the same. same words but different intonations. sometimes, it's almost exactly same intonation

I know it's more complex for Ika and Ukwuani but Enuani's classed as an Igbo dialect, not even an 'Igboid language' and from what I've heard it does sound more Onitsha/Ogidi than anything else.

That I should leave my own thread?

ariesbull:
You have a problem with comprehension
Oga go to proudly anioma proudly Igbo Facebook page and ask the ika there like osita these questions and stop disturbing us on a faceless forum

Who asked you to enter thread and disturb yourself? Na by force?

ariesbull:
You don't seems to be asking rather concluding

That one be your own wahala. I'm telling you that I'm only asking whichever way you interpret. Whatever conclusions I've derived are based purely on my limited experience and understanding on this topic, that's why I'm asking for someone who knows better to fill me in. I can't claim any authority on this kind of thing when there's people who understand and know a lot better than me.

Cire80:
RedboneSmith doesn't actually want to disagree with you but for one thing. That same thing is the reason I said I don't agree with your post completely and that's being too objective. You know this is a subjective discourse and no need being too objective, especially being a non indigenes. I saw Wulfruna post and I agree completely with her.

I'm from Delta Ika and I agree with you on the Itsekiri-Yoruba relationship but not Igala-Yoruba relationship. I think the Igala-Yoruba example would make sense some century ago but not in this present age when Ika is getting more and more Igbonized day by day especially the language. We've been able to retain our culture and every other things but in the aspect of language we're failing.

Yup, that’s what I’m saying. I might be coming off as overly objective at the moment but I’m definitely not claiming to have a definite answer. I stated from the off that it’s my understanding that […] and wanted to know if the Ika-Igbo and Ndokwa-Igbo situation is akin to the Itsekiri-Yoruba, Isoko-Edo relation, etc. It was actually a question but it’s obviously been misinterpreted on here.

I know there’s a lot of grey area in between. I can see a lot of Ikas gradually assimilating into Igbo culture and now bearing Ifeanyi and Nkechi as names but that’s a very recent thing. Deculturalization/acculturation does happen and is happening and current Ika territory might be 100% Igbonized in 100 years but it’s gradual and until we’re at that stage I don’t see why certain Igbos have such an issue with individual Ikas regarding themselves as either Igbo or maintaining their distinct identity (Ika). It goes both ways at the current stage we’re at and that’s the point I’ve been trying to make.

Cire80:
What do you mean by traits? Our culture is mostly Edo. Everything about Ika is Edoid. Language is the main thing that separate us from Edo and bound us together with Igbo. But our language structure , pluralization, anglicization and many other features are Edoid.

Traits = culture.

That’s exactly where I was going with this thread. I was asking if there’s more to the Ika/Ndokwa-Igbo relationship than similarities in language. I know Anioma’s a political creation that absolves Enuani (Aniocha/Oshimili) and Ika and Ukwuani people but I didn’t know if the latter are ethnically Igbo and see themselves as Igbo or whether they should be regarded to us Igbos as what Itsekiri and Igala people are to the Yoruba(ethnically/culturally disparate with related languages). The thing is, someone like Redbone’s telling me that the basic aspects of ‘common’ Igbo culture are shared in the Ika/Ukwuani axis and you’re saying you’re more Edo in culture so I dunno.

What’s your verdict on my original stance on the issue, that Ndokwa and Ika people are to Igbo what Igala and Itsekiri are to Yoruba but that, very recently, a number of them are assimilating into the neighbouring Igbo culture and becoming more Igbonized for political reasons (the creation of Anioma and them being regarded by lay Nigerians who don’t know the difference between Enuani-Ika/Ndokwa as Delta Igbo)?

And mind if I ask if you’re Edo-Ika or Delta Ika?

Ngozi123:
If any 'proper' Igbo (I don't even know what that is ) person can understand your native tongue without too much difficulty then you speak Igbo and are thus an Igbo person who speaks a specific Igbo dialect. The main difference between a language and a dialect is whether the people from the area in discussion can understand you or not. The two are very similar so it's understandable if someone gets confused by them. It's all about mutual comprehensibility.

@Probz Is this what you were talking about?

Partly, yeah. Itsekiri people speak a Yoruboid language but no one calls them Yoruba (ditto Igala). I made this thread to see if Ika and Ukwuani people are actually Igbo or just called that because they speak a related language. There's more to ethnic affiliation with one ethnic group or another than similar languages.

I've heard on this thread that Ika and Ukwuani people also share the same traits and aspects of common culture as mainstream Igbos and that's what I was trying to find out because I honestly didn't know what their traditional culture is.

lawani, nwayo nwayo.

This Ika issue's being discussed on my thread as of now. They're more of a hybrid of Edo and Igbo linguistically at least and that's led to an ethnic identity crisis with them.

Urhobo and Isoko are definitely Edoid and they're both classified as Edoid languages.

This thread shows how ignorant we Nigerians are about mental health.

RIP sha. Nigeria has a long way to go.

blues2022:
Did not watch the entire video, but sincerely, this is Igbo with a dialectical tone. Onwe ihe choro....

That I'm not discrediting. I myself actually grabbed more out of that than I ever would Nsukka, Edda-Ohafia dialects. That post was meant for Igboid who seems to think that Ika is pure Igbo and nothing but, without any Bini influence. That's where I can't get with him. Ignoring the heavy Edo influence on Ika is like ignoring the Igala intonation of Nsukka, Ibibio and Aro etc.

I agree w/ RedboneSmith that the Abakaleke dialect is like a foreign language. I was in Naija last Xmas and going by language I could barely tell when we commot Benue and entered Ebonyi. What they were speaking sounded more like Tiv or Idoma than anything Igbo apart from a few words and phrases here and there.

RedboneSmith:
But what is Omenala? Is every element of Omenala the same in Awka and Eha Amufu? Do they have exactly the same festivals, dances, masquerades, title and secret societies, marriage, burial and widowhood practices?

Food system. Is it the same in all parts of Igboland? Do they eat ofe achara in Udi? Do they eat ukpo mpoto in Afikpo?

Traditional attire. Does the typical Idemmili man dress like the typical Ohafia man, traditionally?

Iwa ji. ChinenyeN has said here that his Ngwa people do not celebrate the New Yam festival.

This is what I am telling you. Before you can talk about using culture to demarcate who is Igbo and who is merely Igboid-speaking, you have to first of all clearly define what you mean by 'Igbo culture'. Then you have to demonstrate that this culture is common to those you call Igbo, but not known to those you call simply Igboid-speaking

So far, it is very easy to show that 'omenala' (a very wide term, by the way), iwa ji, cuisine, traditional attire, etc are not uniform within the Igbo area, rendering the very notion of 'culturally Igbo, and culturally non-Igbo' based on these factors within the Igbo/Igboid-speaking space rather meaningless.



Boss, if you study the cultures of the Igbos of the southeast, you will find that common aspects are actually few. Ozo title is not a common aspect. Ikenga is not a common aspect. Iwa ji is not a common aspect. Red cap with eagle feather is not a common aspect.

Ofo is probably a common aspect. Oji is probably a common aspect too. And so is Ifejioku or Njoku. Now here is the thing: These common factors are also found in the Igboid-groups outside the southeast whom you will tag 'not culturally Igbo'. I actually challenge anyone to produce a single common cultural aspect in the southeast that is absent in the 'Igboid' area of the south-south.

All that's fine. The whole point of this thread is trying to understand the traditional culture of the Igboid-speaking clans in the South South. I'm no staunch Igbo divider and I'm happy to reconsider and change my outlook if someone could convince me that it's more than just language similarities they have in common.

Igbo customs and traditions sure do vary from village to village, more so than other ethnic groups. The only thing I'm saying is that a lot of Ika people I know say their people are originally Bini and have pure Bini/Edo tradition and not anything like Igbo. I'm nowhere near knowledgeable enough in this area to take an authoritative position. You've said that common cultural aspects are shared and I accept that. I'm more questioning than taking the upper ground and you've answered my question.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ltIzwR03ks


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOhVqC1l70c

Igboid, can you honestly tell me that there's not even a touch of foreign or Edo influence in the intonation and dialect/language of the Ika spoken in these videos?

Bigsteveg:
When someone dies, they pray for the repose of his or her soul. Part of prayers for the dead is May GOD forgive his or her sins and May God care for the living and take care of them. It's just a normal prayer.

It's just as saying rest in peace.

Are u from Nigeria?

My bad for misinterpreting.

Sorry to hear about your loss, OP. I myself lost my auntie from breast cancer last year so I know how it feels. Take heart.

RedboneSmith:
Probz was talking about 'culturally Igbo'. What is 'culturally Igbo'? I tried to engage him in that conversation, but I didn't get the feeling that he really wanted to have it, so I dropped it.

Fair dos about market days but did I not mention omenala, oji, traditional food system, traditional attire, Iwa Ji, etc.? The whole point of this thread was questioning whether Igboid-speaking clans in Delta and Rivers also share these common aspects of Igbo culture or whether they're just seen as Igbo because they speak Igboid languages. That's why I compared Yoruba vs. Itsekiri and Igala, two Yoruboid-speaking but non-Yoruba ethnic groups that aren't claimed as Yoruba because they happen to speak similar languages, because they have a different culture and different origins.

I'm ready to have this conversation but don't misunderstand what I'm saying.

Igboid:
As a relatively "untravelled" Anambra man, I'm sure that you also can't understand Ezaa or even deep Nkanu dialects.
So what does it mean? That Ezaa and Nkanu people also have non Igbo influences?
What about Nsukka people, are they also hybrid Igbos since they were influenced by Igalas and you as an Anambra man can't understand the deep Nsukka Igbo dialect? Are they also hybrids that your imaginary Igbo people should stop classifying as Igbos too?
Please stay off issues beyond your grasp.

And who told you I'm untravelled?

Bigsteveg:
May I ask what is wrong with Nigerians from my post? I'll like to know

Tell me what sin's got to do with this?

Igboid:
. I'm able to understand Edo to a great extent from my understanding of Ika language, that shows there's a relationship between both languages. Language structure is the same. Same pluralization, same anglicization. Many shared words. Many of these words are going extinct in Ika but we still know some of them that were in use only about a decades ago or two. Sometimes, an Edo sentence comes out exactly the same way it's spoken in Ika language.

You are a liar!
No Ika man, unless Oza nogogo people( who themselves are Edo fugitives harboured by Ika people in the past, who has been speaking their Edoid language till today) understand Edo without first learning it from the scratch like learning a new Language.

Even the closest Ika people to Edos, the Igbanke's can't understand any Edo language, but they do understand the Igbo man as far away as in Abia state at the first encounter.

It's a fact that Ika language does have big elements of Edo and Igbo. There may be more Igbo influence but that doesn't mean it's got no relationship at all with Edo. This is exactly what I'm saying about some Igbos living up to the land-grabber stereotype and claiming people who might not actually belong to them because of some vague linguistic similarities or shared proximity, to the point where you're now telling an Ika man about his own language and discrediting its obvious Bini influence. Maka gini? Does it make you sleep better at night knowing that Ikas belong to you even if you have to lie about it?

chijiblaze:
The only difference between Ukwuani and central Igbo or mainly Anambra Igbo is the intonation of speech.
I've never lived in Delta state b4. I only saw the videos on YouTube.
Ika is not like Edo in any way. Only Igbo.

I've heard that Ika and Ukwuani have elements of both Igbo and Bini. This is exactly what I'm saying about Igbos ignorantly trying to claim a hybrid group as theirs and only theirs when they've got other features.

I'm an Anambra dude myself and I don't understand Ukwuani one bit.

Bigsteveg:
May God forgive her sins and take care of her family.

What's wrong with Nigerians?

Cire80:
Bro, I respect people like you that are honest and argue out of deep personal conviction irrespective of whose ox is gored. I don't know what side you are on this but I'm certain you know the answer to most of these questions you're asking probz. As for me, I'm not completely on any side.

In my opinion, the op is right to some extent but he's trying to argue from an objective angle which I think is not possible in this topic. And his authoritative generalization is another issue.

And all those saying they understand Ukwani and Ika are not being truthful. You understand some things but you can't understand Ika and Ukwani except you've spent some time in an Ika and Ukwani town.

I’m not trying to generalise, believe me. All I said was that, from my experience, most of the Igbo denial in Delta State comes from the Ika-Ukwuani (Bendel) region and that’s for a reason. I know there are Igbo deniers in Asaba environs but they’re noticeably fewer compared to their more westerly neighbours. Riverine Igbos, not just Deltans but select Anambrarians (Onitsha, Ogbaru), have this funny thing about hinterland Igbos anyway. We’ve all heard of ‘nwa onye Igbo.’

Anioma just seems like a pure political creation to me. As far as I can see, Enuani’s the only true Igbo group in the northern Delta State and that’s not even being generalising since most Ika-Ukwuanis that I know vehemently oppose the Igbo label. Cross-border influences are everywhere in the Igbo exterior (Nsukka-Igala, Aro-Ibibio, Abakaliki-Tiv/Idoma) but I can’t help but see Bendel Igbos as nothing other than flat-out Edo-Igbo hybrids. What’s more generalising than any of what I’m saying is lumping them in with true Delta Igbos because they share some linguistic similarities. It seems to me like a pure matter of geographic and political convenience (esp. to an average Nigerian) and partly the reason why people don’t see Delta Igbos as true Igbos, because the Igboid-Edoid groups in that region (who account for the majority) reject the label. That’s why I think the Delta Igbo label should be limited to Aniocha/Oshimili and not including Ika and Ndokwa. Unless someone can tell me that the latter were originally Igbo and not Bini in culture/language and that there’s not just a few of them assimilating into the wider Igbo culture and language for political reasons.

cheruv:
You deconstructed the fulcrum of his arguments with these...in my view the only Igboid languages are Igbo itself and Ekpeye.
At times I don't get this undue obsession with anything Igbo from Yoruba people especially... I was shocked to find out that some Yoruba now study Igbo history in order to find in which to claim superiority over Igbos

Yupp, that I can see on this very forum.

tripoli007:
But these looks like yoruba

Do you not know that Itsekiri's a Yoruboid language?

Very sad.

Drinkwater06:
These Biafrans are fucking barbaric set of homo Neanderthal sapiens

Since when is Cross River an Igbo state, ode?

Olu317:
IRRESPECTIVE OF HIS OPINION NEED NOT DEGENERATE TO THIS LEVEL. LET US FOLLOW THE CORE “OMOLUABI", IDEOLOGY THAT'S EMBEDDED IN US. I APPEAL TO YOU TO SHEATHE YOUR SWORD ON YOUR BROTHER WHOM YOU QUOTED LAST AND IF HE ISN'T YORUBA, LET HIM BE. I AM A PROUD YORUBA MAN AND BELIEVE IN PEACE WITH YORUBA FAMILY MEMBERS FIRST BEFORE ANY OTHER GROUP.

Who asked this onye ara to comment. Commot for here jare.

babyfaceafrica:
been I...eebu in...bawo lo se ma fi mi we iPod yoots...arifin GBA ni!!!!

I see you think cursing in Yoruba makes you look like a big boy. Quit with this yeye exclamations. Abi na common forum or war ground? Who vex this pikin?

babyfaceafrica:
are u high?..who is omo Igbo?..so because I can speak Igbo makes me omo Igbo?..I am a polyglot and linguist... Nansense!!!

Again, nwayo. Omo Ibo is now insult abi?

babyfaceafrica:
why should I take it easy with him?...that guy no get job that spreading tribal hate all over nairaland....otutu oma nwanne

See omo Ibo vex for this thread sef. Wetin concern you if he's pointing out differences in one Yoruba subgroup? Are you Yoruba?

babyfaceafrica:
are you high or just plain naive?.. Which dialect they do not understand?..u beta go and face ur business ,instead of spewing trash...

Nwata kïrï nwoke, nwayo nwayo.