₦airaland Forum

According to the bible, God created Earth
before our Sun. Logically, it's absurd.

[img]http://johnosullivan.files./2012/11/sun-heats-earth-on-one-hemisphere-only.jpg[/img]

How would you justify that?

FMK: Firstly you have to correct this. in six days God did not only create the planet earth as known "world" but we have 20 billions of galaxies known so far in this deadliest dark universe and each galaxy contains 10¹⁰millions of stars or solars systems and you have to know that human been is not capable of descovering all the universe. that is to says, there is any life very far far away beyond the planet earth in that black hole called universe exactly we do not know when this happened and how this happened maybe we have to request an audience with God to discover all this. but... i tell you my friend to meet God face to Face turned to a myth

Another sentimental church goer.

No where in your bible did it mention God creating any galaxy, not to talk of galaxies.

Your bible doesn't even acknowledge that other worlds exist, in fact puts earth as the center of the Universe.

This can be seen in Joshua(I don't know what verse) when Joshua commanded the Sun and the moon to stand still and they allegedly complied, which further implied that the Biblical Sun was revolving around earth.

In fact, that particular sentiment continued on for many centuries, until Galileo debunked the idea, and he was executed for blasphemy.

And how can I meet God face to face, when I'm not even sure of it's existence? To meet someone, it's imperative that you must see him, is that not so?

@Reyginus, I hear you.

I may have spoken in haste when I made the claim that the Universe has no beginning, and on that I apologise. Just forget I ever said that.

The reason I ignored the blunder in my previous post was that it doesn't really affect or undermine my arguments in any way.

Uyi Iredia: The Devil also does what we call lying wonders.

There you go with your religious sentiments again. Proposing something without clarifying it first. How can a non-theist be able to comprehend what you meant by that statement? That's because it doesn't make any physical sense in the real world.

Uyi Iredia: At some point the brain is involved since God designed it that way. But that doesn't mean the Holy Spirit isn't talking. The problem is whether you'll hear him in your heart.

Sentiments, sentiments, sentiments...

Uyi Iredia: I happen to know unclothedness at 3 but devoid of shame as well. I started bathing myself between 3-4, of course, whilst switching my mum did bathe me attimes.

Okay, I'm gonna have to take your word for it.

Uyi Iredia: Not all 3-year olds were like you. They grasped the semantical aspect of nudity early on.

Some kids develop faster both physically and mentally as compared to other kids, I agree, but, none of them know the real implication of shame, cuz frankly speaking, it's physiologically impossible. The part of the brain that is responsible for emotions is not even fully developed, so how then can a toddler be able to know and comprehend one emotion from another and thus know that he/she is nàked?

Uyi Iredia: As I said, they knew but weren't ashamed. It was after eating the fruit they were ashamed of being naked.

You kept misfiring...

Modern day nùdist go around in public devoid of clothing, but fully aware of their nùdity, thus it's voluntarily.

Adam and Eve, on the other hand went around completely nùde, their naivete and innocence couldn't allow them to really realise the full implication of it all, thus it's involuntarily. So whether they knew or not is secondary, what mattered was that they didn't know what it means to be nàked.

Awareness came flooding in when they failed the temptation and hence, the embarrassment that followed. It became voluntary from that moment henceforth.

Uyi Iredia: Yes. The way a n@ked mad man in public becomes ashamed of his nudit¥ when he recovers his sanity.

You inadvently just contradicted yourself.

A mad man can go nùde without realising it because he doesn't know the difference, and simply doesn't care, so in his way he's naive. The moment he realizes that he's nàked and filthy, the insanity ceases.

The same applies to Adam and Eve, whom in place of madness were completely naive, and in place of sanity became AWARE.

Uyi Iredia: No, she did know wrong at a base level and she, like Adam, must have known the consequence God said would would arise.

No, they didn't, cuz then it implies that they weren't all that naive, that they knew that God May be bullshïtting them. The bible made us to know that it wasn't so.

Uyi Iredia: It isn't.

Yes, it is.

Uyi Iredia: A fact.

Then prove it!

Uyi Iredia: Sin as understood starts with man's disobedience at the garden, not the Devil's defection. In any case, in a sense you are right, God di set the initial conditions wherein which sin occurred.

Reasonable at last!

Reyginus, that's not even the point. I was trying to tell you the complexity of the universe and how the concept of God creating it doesn't make any sense.

Like I said before, the Universe is comprehensible and can be calculated, because its physical.

On the other hand, your God is hidden, unknown, incomprehensible, and impossible to calculate and prove.

How then, can a myth create something so corporeal, vast and continuous and yet remain hidden to the physical sense?


Wouldn't it be more logical to say then, that the Universe preceded your God which in turn exploded to form the solar system that we know?

In other words, your God came from the Universe.

Uyi Iredia: That's the part of God you need to be human. By being a Christian you can tap into it much more.

Hilarious! I know of a certain chick that has clairvoyance abilities. She can tell you what you are thinking just by touching you, she can also see glimpses of the future in one of her fits. She's an atheist btw.

Uyi Iredia: None other than the voice that comes after you've received Christ.

Being psychic has nothing to do with religion or God. According to medicine, it has to do with the chemical composition of the brain or an elongated/mutated pituary gland.

Uyi Iredia: Yes, they knew they were naked. The knowledge of unclothedness meant was the carnal knowledge. It's like being naked as a little child, you know, but don't bother about it.

As a three year old I don't even know what nàkedness meant. I was devoid of shame and completely ignorant that humans are meant to wear clothes.

How could I had known that it was unbecoming to toddle around nùde, when I didn't even know that that I was nùde?

Following that logic, I further stressed that Adam and Eve were completely ignorant of the state of their nûdity, cuz they didn't even know what it meant to be naked.

You could tell from the way they scrambled hastily to cover up their nàkedness after eating the fruit, that it only just dawned on them the extent of their oblivion prior to that.

Uyi Iredia: If they didn't know bad Eve couldn't have said it was bad to the serpent that it was bad to disobey God.

God told them specifically to avoid that particular tree, thus Eve was only voicing out her concern, but because she didn't really knew right from wrong and the consequences of disobedience, she ate the fruit all the same.

Uyi Iredia: A proposition tbh

.

A'right.

Uyi Iredia: The consciousness with which you feel the wind has know physical evidence, it so happens God made the consciousness and the brain that mediates for it.

Sorry, but that is invalid.

Uyi Iredia: I recall God seeking her permission via an angel. More importantly, I think you are being silly, sexual contact didn't oCcur, all that happened was a human parthenogenesis in Mary.

Is this your explanation...or proposition?

Uyi Iredia: Suit yourself.

Okay!

Uyi Iredia: The serpent wan't made devious, it, of its will became devious because of pride and vain ambition.
Read up on Lucifer.

You missed the point.

According to the bible, God create Lucifer, right?

Lucy which in the form of a serpent invented sin and caused Adam and Eve to disobey God's warning.

So wouldn't it be more logical to say that God created sin by proxy, since one of his first creation(Lucifer) that fell out of favour with him, invented it?

Uyi Iredia: I have answered you. Since you are dissatisfied ask someone else.

Noted.

Uyi Iredia: I never knew. Thanks for the info, but I'll keep my Bible.

My turn to say "Suit yourself."

Reyginus: Good for you This I can bet is going to take us very far.
....
God is neither a caused entity, nor a self-caused entity. He is uncaused. Being uncaused I think makes the question unnecessary. Whatever is uncaused cannot come from anywhere. It is either He is caused and thus comes from a place or He is uncaused, thus having no beginning in time.

There is only one thing I know that has no beginning and ending, and it's the Universe itself.

God cannot be the universe because the bible implies that God has a humanoid form, the Universe is formless.

The Universe is a corporeal 'atmosphere'(I chose to call it that for lack of better word). When you gaze up the skies either at night or day, your eyes will be assaulted with the magnificence of the stars or the unrelenting rays of the Sun, respectively. That's how you know that even though the Universe is eternal, it's comprehensible. It's physical.

Your God then contradicts this by hiding in the shadows of your imaginations.

Reyginus: If we claim he is all-knowing, all-powerful and the creator of all that there is, it logically follows that He existed before every other thing. He doesn't have to come from a place.

Not unless he's the Universe.

In the first chapter of Genesis, the bible tells us the darkness was upon the face of the deep which implies that the Universe existed even before your God allegedly created earth. Which further stressed the logic that God must have come from somewhere.

Reyginus: If on the contrary He has a place of origin, then it will only suggest that He is not the creator of the universe we lay claim to. A created thing cannot exceed its creator. Then we would be contradicting ourselve.
He has always existed. He has neither a begining nor an end.

Personally, I think that even if there is the possibility of God's existence, the Universe formed him(it) just like the rest of the galaxies. Your God might have been a star that exploded to form earth and all the other planets in our solar system. Maybe that's the creation story the bible talked about(?)


The theory made further sense if you take into account of all the civilizations past and present that worship the Sun as god.

Maybe the Sun really is your God...

Ijele-igbo:
Look at the world....... Its like a piece of art! Are you telling me the world has no creator?
Are you telling me there's no God somewhere??
Are you telling me the bible is fiction

What do you believe.......

Yes, Yes and Yes!

Reasons;

There are over 10 billion galaxies in the universe which our own galaxy(milky way) happens to be one of.

Milky way meanwhile, contains billion of stars and gazillion of planets which our own planet(earth) happens to be one of.

The milky way is so vast that the nearest star to our own solar system, Proxima Centauri is 4.2 light years away.

There is a possibility that Mars is a dead planet that at one time housed a civilization like that of earth, judging from it's chemical compositions and craters.

There is an high possibility that alien life forms exist in some of the star systems closest to the our own star(Sun), judging from the similarities of the stars to ours.

The universe is so vast, complex and continuous that in fact there May be other replicas of it in other dimensions known as Multiverse.

You simply can't qualify the universe by quoting the scriptures and telling anyone who cares to listen that God created everything in it.

Remember that, there are billions of stars and gazillion of planets in the universe, and yet your bible remain resolute that earth is the only one that contains life. Frankly, that is absurd.

In conclusion, the universe isn't something that that can be explain with religion, but with science. Your God has no place in the universe because Universe is God in itself. It's God that stretches across billions of galaxies forever evolving, forming new stars, and new worlds. It's a God that can be explain and calculated by scientific methods. It's a God that formed our solar system from the big bang millions of years ago. It's never ending, it's omnipresent, it's alpha and Omega, and it goes by one name; [size=16pt]Universe.[/size]

Fantastic! Nice Analogy.

You really hit the nail on the head this time.

Possibly, your best explanation yet...

Next Question?

Let's just move on.

Attempt the next question?

Two or Three are fantastic, while the rest are plain disgusting.

Yuck!

I feel like puking...

spywareczar: So weird mehn

It's amazing what length people can go to just to express themselves.

Ijele-igbo:
Nature and everything you see around you was created by God....... Everything has a maker..... God exists mate!

Then prove that he does!

Reyginus: Now, you are trying to shoot yourself.
If you recall, in the process of clarifying my argument I geered, and I think you followed me, towards the afterlife.
The contention thus hinged on the emotional state of the entity in the afterlife.
In concordance, you made a case for the non-theists by equating my example of the plan to be fulfilled in the afterlife with the legacy they left behind.

I did no such thing. If you thought I did, then you were mistaken.

Remember, you talked of spirituality and how Bill Gates life on earth is worthless without knowing God. I contested that statement by saying that since he's bound to leave a lasting legacy behind, he doesn't need your spirituality.

Equating your after life claims with my legacies would imply that I acknowledged the former, which wasn't the case. I didn't and still don't recognise your spirituality claims, because to an atheist, it's irrelevant.

Reyginus: Considering you've come all this way with me, the only inductive answer you should have given is yes.

How could It have been yes? To an atheist, life ceases after life, so why not live your life to the fullest?

Following my logic, Bill Gates life would cease after he dies, but because of his fulfilled life on earth, a legacy which is Microsoft will be left behind, and thus his name will live on. He will be remembered which makes it all worthwhile.

I'm afraid you entirely missed the point. You completely misunderstood me.

Reyginus: That is, affirming that their legacy affect them even when they are dead.

Again, How?? THEY ARE DEAD. Affirming that their legacies would affect them after they died would be going contrary to my claims that Afterlife don't exist, don't you think? That's when 'Shooting myself' would have had some significance.

Reyginus: And this I can proof to be wrong in all ramifications.

Which will make you the one shooting yourself, cuz by doing so you are inadvently arguing on my side.

Reyginus: Since you went for No, that there legacy doesn't affect them in any way, which I have to agree with, my worry now is why equate it with the continuation of an afterlife which you already posited cannot only be made possible by God.

Again you misunderstood, I didn't equate anything, mate.

Reyginus: A deep look at it,
you see that your argument is running for and against itself.

Your arguments is the culprit here, not mine.

Reyginus: You don't think it makes you sound like a man who says :' 'when I cross the brigde to the other side of the town, my name will be written on the sands of time' and also at the same time saying 'once you cross the brigde there is no other side of the town'?

And what's wrong with that?

'when I cross the brigde to the other side of the town, my name will be written on the sands of time'

And

'once you cross the brigde there is no other side of the town'

are 2 different issues altogether and in no way contradicts the other.

You see, when one dies, his consciousness on earth is extinguished, thus life ceases for him('once you cross the brigde there is no other side of the town').

And

On the other hand, one could die and still be remembered('when I cross the brigde to the other side of the town, my name will be written on the sands of time').

Reyginus: Secondly, you seem to forget what we are all about.

Au contraire Amigo, au contraire. I remembered quite clearly. Rather, you are the one that seem to have forgotten.

Reyginus: Remember at this moment of the discourse our concentration was on what happens to the dead in the after, which was as a result of my explanation on God's ultimate plan for all of us.
For whose continuity, if I may ask?

Life is nothing but meaningless without some level of continuity. After one leaves the earth, without an heir to take up his name or something to remember him by, he's nothing but a passing blimp on earth surface.

Reyginus: It's high time you distinguished legacy from the state of a being no longer in existence.

Now, you are trying to put word into my mouth, cuz I never implied they are the same.

When one dies he/she ceases to exist, thus it's necessary though not mandatory to leave a lasting legacy behind.

You didn't get my point at all, I'm afraid.

Reyginus: The theory of special and general relativity combined with the photoelectric effect will not make the dead body of Einstein any better or good.
Neither will Newton's Universal Gravitation nor Da vinci's Monalisa.
I ask for more consistency from you, please.

Now you lack imagination. Yes, their works made no difference to them now that they are dead, but thanks to their genius ideas and inventions, life and how we perceive it underwent some level of modifications, which further stressed my point; Legacies matter...

They are long dead, but their work lives on.(continuity).

You talked of consistency, but you are anything but.

Ijele-igbo:
Good scientific analysis but one note of correction......... I would rather say we are at God's mercy and not nature mercy because God created nature

We live and breath nature, whereas your God is only based on faith, with his presence conspicuously missing in the real world.

Sorry mate, I can't be at the mercy of something that doesn't exist.

Nature trump God any day, any time, 24/7.

Reyginus: Following your line of argument, do you think the legacy the dead left affect them in any way?
And by the way, let's not make other additions. I perceive something.

After death, life ceases so I don't see how.

But their name lives on, having a positive impact on the living, motivating and guiding them.

Great name like Shakespeare, Newton, Einstein and Da Vinci are remembered today because of the great legacies they left behind.

Even Christians have their own legacies like The Holy Bible.

Legacy is very vital for continuity.

Logicboy03: RayMacblue,


I dont know who you are but I know one thing-

-You are EPIC! Great work sir!

Nice schooling of Striklymi, by the way!

You flatter me, mate.

Uyi Iredia: 1. I don't know and I must content myself with that, no one can know everything and ifGod wanted it known why He made the world as He did, it would be in the Bible.

Wow! Your explanation is not an explanation at all! Why did you even bother?

Uyi Iredia: 2. To hear the plan from God via His Holy Spirit which speaks to us
as a still, small vouce in our hearts.

I get this tiny voice in my head sometimes telling me what to do and not to do. I think it's what science calls instinct. There is another version of it that guides and leads you as you make moral choices, I think that is generally known as conscience. Everyone has those, both atheist and non-atheist alike, and you don't even need to PRAY to hear the "small voice".

So which other small voice are you referring to?

Uyi Iredia: 3. They did. God made them with a conscience. You are mistaking God making them innocent and without sin for moral naivete which is not the case: whenthe serpent tempted the woman she had the sense to know God said it was bad to eat from the tree in question.

If your logic should be followed, then they must have known that they were buck nàked too before eating the forbidden fruit, right?

According to the Bible, that wasn't so. They were completely innocent and naive prior to the temptation.

Sorry mate, your logic is very illogical...Try again.

Uyi Iredia: 4. No one. God is uncreated and eternal, as such, He has always been extant.

How?? You call this an explanation?

Even a blowing wind that is felt rather than seen has more credibility than your God's existence, no offense.

Uyi Iredia: 5. Science might find a way to do that by getting a sufficiently old virgin,extracting her egg without damaging her hymen or vagina, fertilizing it in vivo and implanting it back, again without damage to the hymen or vagina, in the uterus. Of course, for an omnipotent God it is easy, the Bible talks about the Holy Spirit overshadowing her and making her conceive. So the way Mary got pregnant was through an otherwise impossible human parthenogenesis.

So the holy spirit uhmm...rapéd her, Was that what you were trying to say?

Wow! Never knew that your Holy spirit can be that amorous.

On a more serious note, your explanation still doesn't make any sense in the real world.

First of all, you have to prove that your Holy spirit even exist before giving any other explanation.

Uyi Iredia: 6. No, he didn't. Sin is man's disobedience to God's commandment. It started in the garden when Adam disobeyed God's order not to eat of a certain tree. That precedent set the ground for more to come.

But who created the serpent that was already very devious and initiated the temptation, or was it omnipresent like your God and sprung into being from nowhere and nothing?

Uyi Iredia: 7. Because men have lost their way and try to find their way back to God. Christianity OTOH is about God drawing man to the way to Him. Jesus is God come as man to live the life God wants of us and to commend us to God.

Some religion doesn't even worship a humanoid-form god.

Again the question; Why are there so many version and forms of god(s) in different cultures with each one claiming Precedence over the other?

How come?

Uyi Iredia: 8. Isaac is. Ishmael's mother was never married to Abraham and was Sarah's maid before Sarahmade her husband sleep with her to get a child. Isaac's mother, Sarah, was legitimately married to Abraham and he was the child of promise God foretold to Abraham.

Islam has a different version to that scenario, just so you know.

In their own version, Isaac was the bastard.

Uyi Iredia: 9. Supposedly, as their way of respecting Allah. They stand, kneel or bow in Allah's presence as a sign of respect. Sitting, to them implies treating Allah as one's mate which is deemed improper.

Okay.

Uyi Iredia: 10. I know Jesus is held to be a prophet, but not a the Son of God or God as a man, in Islam. We Christians don't take Muhammad seriously, at best he is ignored, otherwise he falls into the category of a false prophet.

Okay.

Le vivre de Afrique.

French ligue 1 remains the only European league that really glorifies and displays African football in all it's magnifique.

I don't dig dogs. I like them small and nonchalant.

Yeah, you guessed right! I'm a cat Person myself.

Reyginus: Lol. Now I know why you are missing the point.
The plan of God for our lives is not really that of optimum satisfaction in this life but in the afterlife. Bill gates may be rich physically but spiritually he is nothing.

So you say. At the end of the day, when he dies, a lasting legacy will left behind » Microsoft. It doesn't get any better than that, my friend.

Reyginus: That's the plan I am talking about. The possession of the kingdom of heaven.
Only those who know him can actualize it. An atheist will not. No sentiments here, bro.

Really?

What kingdom of Heaven are you referring to? Cuz there are so many.

Zeus kingdom of heaven which is Olympus

Odin's kingdom of heaven

Jehovah's kingdom of Heaven

Allah's Kingdom of Heaven with 72 Virgins

Sango and Amadioha's Kingdom of Heaven

Orlando Bloom's Kingdom of Heaven.

Etc...

So which one??

Reyginus: Now, how can an atheist be a part of what he doesn't belive in the first place?

Exactly.

@Op, Miracle is not really spiritual.

Take for instance, a friend of mine suffers from a migraine, and was desperate for a cure. Science wouldn't give him that, rather it manages it. But my friend wanted an absolute cure, which droves him into religion. One day, he met a certain well known pastor one on one, and the pastor told him to go home and take a couple of valium then lie down and try to sleep, which he did and presto... the migraine disappeared completely as he woke up.

Now, our Christian friends will predictably start shouting their customary 'Praises' to their God and claiming 'miracle', but the truth of the matter is it ain't.

It's simply a psychological phenomenon, nothing more. My friend believed whole-heartedly that the Valium would cure him even before taking it, and the brain relayed the message to the nervous system that everything is okay, and the migraine disappeared. Apparently, a Psychologist and Neorologist would be able to explain this better than I.

There was a test conducted on a certain individual. He was given an injection that was originally water, but was told it was a poison of some kind that could kill within 5 minutes. In less than 3 minutes, the patient started displaying all the symptoms that a real victim of the said poison would display. Why? Simply because he accepted wholeheartedly that it's over for him. Again, Psychology 101.

In conclusion, Miracle is nothing but psychological manifestation of well-being, and varies from individual to individual.

The world ending can't really be quantified by bible quotations.

There are factors that can't be ignored, factors like the Sun, factors like global warming, factors like solar system

According to scientific calculation, our Sun is a young star and most prob'ly will not explode and thus take everything in the solar system with it, for another million years.

But there are factors like solar flares that can end the life as we know it, if it flares out of hand. A solar flare that escapes the boundaries of the Sun can obliterate Earth in a second, but so far are restricted to the confines of the lower corona. Some call this Armageddon.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e3/Magnificent_CME_Erupts_on_the_Sun_-_August_31.jpg/280px-Magnificent_CME_Erupts_on_the_Sun_-_August_31.jpg



Global warming is the rise in the average temperature of Earth's atmosphere and oceans since the late 19th century and its projected continuation. If left unchecked, Polar ice caps will melt , temperaturesa will drop, climates will change drastically, tornadoes and earthquakes will occur in alarming alacrity anywhere, extinct volcanoes will erupt, etc. Earth and all the lifes in it will be in serious jeopardy. Some call this Apocalypse.
https://2012apocalypse.net/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/galactic-alignment1.jpg



Meteors and Comets are constant features in our solar system. Some travel past, while some are part of it. Sometimes we experience a phenomenon known as 'meteor shower' whereby some small chunks of asteroids enter the earth's atmosphere. One day though, one as big as a moon might decide to head in our direction, and there is no way of stopping something that big. If it hits the earth surface, no need of telling you what would happen...the earth will cease to exist, OH, Yeah! Some call this Armaggedon or Apocalypse or both.
https://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02469/asteroid_2469300b.jpg


Life is continuous, until it isn't. At any point in time, anything can happen and God and the bible doesn't have a say in the matter. We are at natures mercy, nothing more.

Islam conception of heaven is better.

All you need to do is simple: strap some C4 on your stomach or back, hold the trigger or button in your pocket, then simply and casually walk into the gathering of non-Muslims(infidels) preferably Christians or Jews, then shout Allah Akbar and press the button...

72 virgins, ganja, Heineken and paradise here I come!

Reyginus: Seems more like an omission of a word on my part. I think I didn't mention what the prayer is serving.
Like we have to break down the question into two fragments to give a clearer picture. With these fragments we can inductively climb to the central theme the question is moving towards.
Take them to be: 'if God has a plan for us' and 'why pray'.
1. To have a plan depicts, to have a sketch, a diagram, a pattern which a thing, an entity, is to follow for the fulfilment of a particular goal. We know God is a supreme, uncaused, and benevolent spirit.
Any plan by this supreme spirit(God) on the lower spirits can be seen as, a pattern mapped out by an objective moral entity for the goodness of lower spirits.
If you observe clearly, in our definition of what a plan really is, begs a means of connection. That is, a means through which the one planned for will acquire what was planned for him.
That is where we have to redefine your understanding of prayer. I think your idea of prayer is merely a platform to ask for the fulfillment of this plan talked about. Prayer is not only a platform to ask for our wants, it is also the means by which we connect ourselves to God. A means to talk to God about everything. I mean everything.
So the point is, you have to be connected to God before you claim the contents in the plan.

Uhm...I don't think so.

Your words "it's only those that are connected to God that could claim the contents of those plans" can be translated to mean thus; its only those that acknowledges God and pray that God's light will shine down upon.

So not true.

Bill Gates is one of the most successful men of his generation, and yet a known atheist. Remember, he had never prayed once in his life(or so he says)

Now some could argue that he was able to attain to those lofty heights without praying, simply because he made it so or it was written in the stars(his destiny).

Meaning, NOT praying doesn't negate someone from achieving his goal if he is hell bent on it.

You create your own luck, so-to-speak.

Now, that's seem more logical and less sentimental.

Reyginus: 2. 'Why pray?' We pray because it is one of the surest means to connect and roam with God. The principal thing is the connection, the familiarizing with the person of God.
Using a network as an analogy. Without a sim card in the phone there would be no connection to work with. The phone can perform every other primary function like calculation, games, alarm clock, etc. But to function to its maximum capability, to use the phone to the optimal specifications it was made to deliver, a sim card is inserted to provide the needed network.

Interesting...

So an atheist or somebody that doesn't pray at all isn't really maximizing his or her potential? He/she could be likened to a phone without a Sim Card?

Hmmn...

Sentiments talking again, don't you think?

The poster above me is high on ganja

Reyginus: Before we proceed, I would like to know your objection, the dampener, the half mind as you put it. Maybe we can learn something from it.
Let's treat each question completely before going any further.

'kay.

Simply put, you didn't really answer the question.

Remember that I asked; If God has a plan for us then why pray at all?

You talked of prayer being an acceptance of God's offer to fulfill mankind's wishes or plan, which the question already acknowledged. See below;

"If God has a plan for us..."

To summarize, you are trying to say that Since God already have a plan for us, praying is a formality. Exactly what the question is implying.

That's the dampener, cuz you didn't really tackle the question. You skirted around it in a brilliant manner but the question still remained unanswered.

Uyi Iredia: You misunderstand me. I want to answer you the way a Christian would, IOW, give typical Christian answer to your questions. So . . . are you game ?

Sure I am. Let's see what you got.