₦airaland Forum

@ OP
You are not the only one that has struggled to come to terms with the very many questionable accounts, claims, stories and inconsistencies rife in the bible.
Jesus for instance can't be proved to have lived or actually existed. All the stories of his existence have been traced to a single source, the early Church and its christian proponents.
Contrary to what people think, the bible is a compilation of different books from mostly unknown authors of different religious belief systems that are not neccesarily christians. Pauline books for instance has gnosticism written all over it to the point it conflicts with the inconsistent gospel tales of Mathew, Mark, Luke And John, three of which their authors are not traceable to anyone known to have existed. You don't believe that Mathew, a mere tax collector with little Education wrote the book of matthew, do you? Same goes for john and mark.

yungboss: hmmm, i see. But i didn't have no intention of such. Heard about Mind reading technology, i didn't know it is already being applied here!

lol. . It is not rocket science, the unneccessary combativeness in your post was very evident. . Lol

musiwa7: do you pour water from a top of a cliff or do you go to the bottom of the cliff and pour water up.. will it get to the top. the answer is no..


source most be in yorubaland


you people did not go to school...

lol. . Clown!! Becomerich when are you going to start commenting with your brains and not your ass

This is inreresting

Prolly cos they notice you are itching for some action that might derail the thread. . Lol

yungboss: be easy brother...no one is drawing sword..

you prolly should take your own advice, Mr!

sultaan: Not one frequent with cartalk section had any political motive, it was the crowd used to the politics section that brought their opinion over.

You are all from the east let the talk be how to make the region better and not which state/gov is worse.I don,t see northerners doing that to their brothers.

It was purely about the experience in a PUG

WORD

[quote author=t-die]Oga I am not or was not (whichever) attempting to denigrate any Government with regards to the roads. There are a lot of reasons why roads go bad, with both the Govt, and the people being guilty at times. My remark about God's own State had nothing to do with the state of the Road because almost all the roads i traveled on (including the road on which i made that remark) are federal Roads.
FYI I grew up in Enugu from way back in the early eighties and lived/schooled/worked there up to December 2011, so if anybody should be conversant with the pace of development there, then I should be the one (except you also grew up there and are older than i am). I will not be dragged into who is performing better than who...thats not the point of this section. Sullivan has tried immensely in some aspects so has Orji in his own way, so have Okorocha and Akpabio in their own ways.
like I said countless times, my story was unplanned... im-promptu, It only occurred to me to start snapping pics after I had gotten petrol @ the Mega Station which as you know is outside Enugu town.
Maybe you could suggest what could be done better next time. Even if you don't have the time, some other jobless peeps like me who like to show off would be happy to take note of your corrections without any hard feelings and effect them.
Can we please end this here....
I apologize if some of my remarks on the pics seemed subtly insultive.[/quote]No wahala bro, I'vegot your point already just did not want the thread to the way I suspected it was going.

yungboss: you sound like a nagging lady...

and you sound like a busybody!!

Ikenna351: You failed to understand difference between city and highway roads.

Long distance journey is not about the city one takes off from. Its about the things one encounters on the highway or on the road before one gets to his final destination. Were you expecting him to start the picture taking from the room he slept in Enugu the morning he zoomed off? You would say that if the thread was about a diary; what happened in his life that day. The topic was very explicit "... Journey from Enugu to Uyo". That is, what happened between Enugu and Uyo with his Lion, on his way. The towns that came up in the pics were there because he had to pass them before he gets to Uyo. If it was a straight smooth isolated highway, would you have seen those towns you have problems with? I grew up in Awka & Enugu; i still visit Enugu often. In fact, Enugu town is always my first destination each town i travel down to East, since i drive only on Abuja-Enugu highway to East (Never taken Lokoja-Onitsha highway & ain't interested). So i know how good Enugu is. But i didnt read meaning into what you guys are insinuating. Because a petrolhead interest is not about the towns, but the car and roads in question. Is that too difficult to understand?

Is natural for one to take a final picture of his ride when he/she arrives his/her final destination. I would do the same. In fact, i did the same in my own Album i created in my Facebook.

I dont know why its very difficult for some people to understand the difference between Car Talk and Politics section, where almost everyone there have inferiority complex issues. Always looking for who is looking down on you or who is your Anti-tribe or state. Like i have pointed out, this is car talk section. Before you comment, first check for the section you are in. We have our own way discussion which is non tribal or non political. If you cant stand our maturity, let us be.

Ikenna.

guy you are taking your moderator job too seriously to the point you are fighting the urge to throw childish tantrums. Our opinions on issues do not have to be thesame, whatever your interpretations of the picture story is, they are your opinions and I respect them, you are voicing them too, I would appreciate if you also respect mine and don't get borderline forceful and resorting to threat. The op sounds even more mature than you in his response yet you are supposed to be a Moderator and not take sides with an argument. Your job is not to moderate my opinions but to make sure they do not go against the rules here. Whether there is a hint of politics in my post it is immaterial, and you indulge in thesame politics of complexes when you accuse majority of posters on that section as having inferiority complex.
Abeg tone down with the anger and force in your tone, it is beclouding your judgement as moderator, you don't have to like my views but if they don't go against the rules of engagement here, it is your duty to make sure I air them.
Thank you.

[quote author=t-die]Oga... if I was comparing Enugu State to Akwa ibom State, The title of my post would have been ROADS IN Enugu State and IN Akwa Ibom State (Notice i left out the words "Pug, Journey, Enugu, To, Uyo )and this would have been in the travel section not cartalk.
I am not comparing the states... merely snapped pics of my journey.
You have the right to wish to settle anywhere in Nigeria... thats entirely up to you.
Maybe I ought to lend you a leaf...
...Sometimes, I read posts/topics on Nairaland which in my opinion are pure bollocks... What i do is just to shake my head and move on without dropping nasty or sarcastic comments... You should do the same.
if you do want to criticize, then do so constructively and we'll all appreciate it, and then next time, it will be done better by me or others who would like to do journey pic stories as well.
And if you feel i am showing off... what if I am...?? Its my car, its my topic, its within the scope of the "car talk" section and to borrow from a certain dude... , its my "MBs"
...and Apples CAN be compared to Oranges... all depends on which properties you want to compare-they're both fruits.
Thank you...[/quote]Guy call it what you like and act so unassuming and harmless, the fact still remains that your attempt is a subtle diss at the governments of those other two states, Enugu especially.

it is so glaring that underneath all that light gist about your journey and car, is the real motive of the thread: Akwa Ibom is working and the government of the other two states are not doing anything-not that I have a problem with your uncanny attempt, my grouse is the fact you had to do it in guise of talking about your car while you hit below the belt at these other states.

Even if it is generally agreed Abia state has the worst government in the east hence your subtle snide remarks about Abia state, thesame argument can't be surreptitously extended to Enugu, you over did it and made your bias and motive so obvious when you extended it to Enugu state.

Enugu State in my opinion is the finest eastern state with enviable infrastructures and social life comparable to may be Portharcourt. Akwa Ibom is ok too but has nothing on Enugu that's the ugly truth. So grotesquely highliting inter-state roads-whether express, state or federal roads in these two states in a list of suggestive pictures while hailing and showing off newly constructed ones in AK is disingenous and an inglorious attempt to hit below the belt.
Your picture story is vague and unbalanced and can easily be misinterpreted as evidenced from some of the posts here.
I just had to point it out cos I see where this is going, already some posters have started clumping the performing Enugu state goverment with Abia's, that is so not fair on Chime who as far as performance is concerned has been the most performing in the east giving the meagre allocation to Enugu and the level of what he has achieved in Enugu. Akwa Ibom seems like is working the most because like Rivers and Lagos, they have a chunky allocation to work with.
You seriously do not need to Abia or Enugu state to look mediocre to make AK look dashing and desirable, it already is.

As for whether you are showing off, of course you are, it is expected and understandable, infact, that is the reason for this section. I will do thesame if I had the time too. . .lol. . I aint hating or sth, just telling the obvious.

megxo: OP, NXT TYM EHN, MAYBE DO DESAME WEN TRAVELLIN FROM AKWA IBOM 2 SOKOTO.........WE'LL APPRECIATE PICS

trust me, when it comes to good roads, The North has got it all covered even in the deepest part of their villages, they have excellent road networks. Am in sokoto now and I know.

I am not sure what this is about but it looks more like an EGO ride.
I have been to Akwa Ibom and Enugu, by far, Enugu is more cosmopolitan and have better inner access roads and structures than Akwa ibom.
It appears the intent of this thread besides the Ego ride is to praise AK by making Enugu especially look bad. I am not from either of the states but if I were to settle anywhere in the east, it will definitely be Enugu not AK. I was hoping to see some realy bad roads in the inner suburbs only for you to take pictures of federal roads and rural roads on the outskirts and compare them with inner town roads in AK.

It is all too familiar to not notice the bias. If your intent was to compare the level of developments in these states, then do it with objectivity and equality, don't compare apples with oranges.
Try again next time. AK is cool though.

SELFWORTH: The end is near true and true. Even non- Christians have suddenly become experts in the word of God and bible. Spewing all sorts of rubbish.

Go to Hell, you ignorant phoney that is trying to yap about things he obviously do not know and can't comprehend. So because you are christian, it makes you an expert, right? Lol. . What a joke!
Don't quote me again, you christian ignoramus, that will rather attack personality than address the main issue.

Horus: She will be more successful if she buy her own domain name for her blog.

how will having her own domain name give her more money?

mollie12: Guy, all this talk about catholic church 'owning' the bible is borderline blasphemy. Beware. We both agree that the bible can't be privately interpreted but that private interpretation does not belong solely to any person or organization. It belongs to whoever the Holy Spirit gives it to, and this will be known by other brethren who are also in agreement with the Spirit.

You seem not to understand the implication of your argument. Which organization has interpreted, been interpreting and has continued to interprete the bible? The Roman catholic Church and its affiliate.

Like somebody has already said, the bible is not the inerrant words of some male god residing nowhere in particular in the sky, it is a compilation of different writings and texts from different anonymous writers-many of them fictitious- with belief systems that were not neccessarily christian.

Whether it is the words of a god or not, it has always been tampered with by the roman catholic church. Besides, both the OT and the NT books were canonized by mere mortals-rabis and bishops playing power politics. The OT for example was canonized at the Council of Jamnia by imperfect Jewish rabis; it should also be noted that the books that they canonized were as well from different sources and not representative of the views of every Jews as there were Jews living in Ethiopia who either did not hear of it or did not accept the decision of Jamnia. To this day they use a different canon than their Palestinian brethren [Encyclopedia Judaica, Vol 6, p 1147].

As for the NT, its canonization process constituted a menace; the meetings were rancous and wild with bishops angrily shouting down eachother and disagreeing with eachother to the point of getting physical with gangs. They threw away books that did not meet their god-inspired pre-requisites, altered those that they felt needed little tweaking before joining the club and later pronounced them gospels, indeed they were god's spells cos one has to be under a spel to believe the BS written in those books.

For instance the story of the adultrous woman shows a typical example of alteration and writing to fit a purpose and how rife they are in the bible; the question is this, who did the woman commmit the adultry with? Where is the man in question? Did she commit adultery all by herself? How come the tales of her punishment was only reported while the man that commited it with her gets a silent report, what a mysoginistic depiction of event and that's all you see in the bible. Men dominating everything while the women just sit and obey like zombies.

The book of matthew, Mark, and John were not written by the men that bore these names, they were barely educated to write any of those books in the language in which they were originally copied from, those books were written by anonymous church scribes, the names used were deliberately used to decieve and give the impression that they were directly from Jesus's disciples or prophets that had met Jesus and interacted with him.
Men, mere mortals made the bible divine, called and chose which of the many false depictions of events and lies to be described as god's inspired words. I repeat again, the irreconcilable BS is not inerrant, it is man's words against another man's words.

The bible is nothing different from the muslim Koran or other religious books based on the religious ideologies of their founders and then made divine through concocted mystic and mystery stories of its oringins.

Manweysabi: The text u read in the bible is called 'LOGOS'- a written word. There's a living force in every word written in the Bible. When u recieved a revelation from any word via the Holy Spirit, It becomes 'RHEMA'. So, what i conceived from reading a particular versa in a chapter, can be different from what another person may concieve.

incongruent spiritual mumbo-Jumbo. . . All that nonsense they teach in CEC and all these Nigerian new generation churches.

k2039: I just dont understand what you wrote,if you meant Holy Spirit as the interpreter of the bible I agree but if you meant catholics then you sure need medical attention because your post doesnt defend catholics as having the divine interpretation of the scriptures

You are obviously a naive Christian that does not know the origins of his bible. . .lol. . . Early Christians where actually Roman Catholics and they compiled the books of the bible written mostly by fictitious "anonymous writers"; it is possible they were written by catholic scribes and passed on as some "holy ghost" inspired book. . .lol. . The holyghost must be confused if actually it wrote or inspired anyone to wright most of the BS in the bible that look like pagan fairytales of events.

charlsecy4: I was with a friend last Sunday. He said that the meaning of each verse in the Bible is non-specific, that it depends on "AS PER REVEALED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT" to the reader. He was like saying that two or more individuals could read a passage in the Scripture, and the Holy Spirit would reveal different meanings to the individuals.

So, let's discuss: Does Each Bible Text Have A Fixed Interpretation, or Does It Depend On What The Holy Spirit Reveals To The Reader?

hahahahah. . .that is the excuse christians use when there is an obvious irreconcilable BULLSHYT that can't be explained. . . Who da Bleep is holyspirit? A mental invention I guess.

nosa gold: Like seriously I tot its only ♍ε̲̣̣̣̥ dat saw it o

how old is dis little pr!ck?

I have got one world to explain it, PIUS FRAUD!

Denise216: The married men I know don't like to share what they enjoy in their marriages with other men. Ironically when there are women around we hear how awesome is at home and how much fun they have with their wive and kids. Is there pressure among men to keep the good stuff secret? Does it make them look weak if they enjoy being married? What is up with that?

hahahahah. . . I will have to admit that has its roots planted not neccessarily from the African American culture but African culture itself. The fact is for a man, emotive expression is a sign of weakness or probably a tell-sign that the man is not assertive in the house and is being controlled or manipulated by his wife. The man would rather tell all that nice feelings and emotions to his wife in the confines of their room.
And to be honest, it's ironically funny that a man will come out in the open to talk about how great his wife and family is, only for them to file for a divorce years later, what a travesty of reality.
Perhaps, talking about it is best suited for the womenfolks, they don't get any pressure from their female friends and coleagues after such emotive declarations of a perfect family life. Unlike the malefolks that faces mocking pressure from friends and coleagues after doing such, you wont blame their reticence or reluctance to discuss their private affairs in the open like that. I have seen examples of such amongst white male folks, it is no good.

festguy: anyway,there's FOI bill.

that's common sense

festguy: "hearing they shall hear,but they would not perceive for their hearts are hard,they were brain-washed by the enemy"dnt u pray in ur life to prosper?dnt u kno God has pleasure in d prosperity of his servant?psalm 35 vs 27.dnt u kno d thot of God toward us is nt of evil bt of peace&to giv us an expected end?go&read ur bible/koran very wel&proving wht is aceptable unto d lord.pls stop blaspheming!

Guy trust me on this one, G.O OLEdepo and Enoch Ajibole are bible wielding conMen that are not any different from these other criminals scheming and extorting money from gullible and weak minded people.
As far as I am concerned they are all guy man playing the game of power, it will be foolish for you not to play along and act like you are not interested in the game they are playing.

hahahahah. . . Finally, some christians with brains in their head are begining to tell themselves the truth. . .lol. . I hope the next stage of this "truth revelation" is to question the very foundation of the christian belief itself. That is where lies the real tool of exploitation.
People are here insincerely criticizing the Nigerian church and quoting long pages in the bible to support their rughteuos argument forgetting that the reason it is so easy to exploit people en mass is not realy because they don't read the bible or that they have turned their bible wielding Con Men to semi-Gods but because, the bible itself, is an exploitative book.
The whole concept of the bible is built entirely on exploitation, in fact, the more people are advised to read the bible, the more their chances of spiritual delusions rises cos realy, let's face it, the pastors don't preach anything different from what the bible vaguely says.

Let's be real here, in the real scheme of things, the Nigerian churches are late in this regard, ask Americans that go to those MegaChurches whose models lately habe been the darline of every Nigerian church and their pastors. They build elitists schools too, have pay as you use digital TV stations and so on.
People tend to forget that religion by nature is exploitative. What is faith? Believe it even if it does not exist, you don't neccessarily need to even work towards it. To put it simply; it is an irrational and illogical state of belief.
If I am able to put a lot of people in this kind of belief state, asking them to go poor for my sake will be cupcakes, the main challenge is to get them tamed and mentally numb to ask any question that does not reconcile with their belief-state. How do you achieve this, through vagueness and mental diversions, that's where the bible comes in. It is a tool of deception, treachery, propaganda and perfect mind programming.
If we are going to solve the problems of exploitaton, it will have to be methods, mechanisms and efforts that help or get people to think outside of their belief state, make them bold enough to ask questions about the vague nature of their belieg state, efforts that help them make decisions based on the realistc basis as opposed to their belief state. Until that is done, we will continue to have more millitants and fundamental religious begots who is ready to kill just so that their Daddy Ajibiole and Oldepos can seem right and divine.

Hahahaha. . . Is it not obvious that you are not interested in fact but splitting hair and petty diversionary antics of no substance.
Your round and round petty antics of diversion and lame attempt to trivialize the issue exposes your lack and the limitations of your lies.
You wanted verified sources to the basis of the argument made by the book, I pointed you to the avalenche of sources, books and even pages the woman cited from, you can easily go there and get your verifications since it is you who wants to know the source and how geniune they are. . .lol
I bet you would rather I present the authors of these works and books themselves, even at that, you would still want to indulge in your tiring dishonest quest to no where.
What exactly is your contention here. . .lol. .cos it is obvious that all you want to do is have the last words. . Lol.
What other sources can be more authentic than the works of historians-christian historians inclusive-that unwittingly showed evidences that gave support to the woman's books on the copy cat characters that made up christ.
Who asked for verifications, ME or YOU? Lol. . Your realy are a confused "soul" splitting hairs and clutching at straws.
If your problem is verification, the woman openly outlined her sources, named the authors, the books and pages where to find them, why do you need me to help you verify? Are you this clueless to the point of being irrationally petty?? . . .lol. . whatever happened to "google is your friend??"
Are you contending that her citations and quotations from the aforementioned books are forged or misrepresented or that the books do not exist all together?Her quotes on Tertullian And Marcus Minucius, she openly outlined the name of the books and the pages from where she got her quotes, what else do you want, JESUS Lol. . Nna na wa o
Guy go rest abeg, if you have got nothing of intellectual importance to post besides petty diversions and childish fight for who must have the last word, just go crash land for your bed and sleep into oblivion. . Lol

Here is one of the early church father defending the similarities of pre-christian pagan gadmen crucifixion and that of christ

rhymz: In his First Apology Church father Justin Martyr (c.150) writes:

"Chapter 21. Analogies to the history of Christ.
"And when we say also that the Word, who is the first-birth of God, was produced without sexual union, and that He, Jesus Christ, our Teacher, was crucified and died, and rose again, and ascended into heaven, we propound nothing different from what you believe regarding those whom you esteem sons of Jupiter..." (Roberts, ANF , I, 170)

It is evident that the Church fathers did not perceive the configuration of Christ on the cross to be anything unusual. Indeed, they insisted that the Pagans likewise worshipped gods on crosses or in "crucial frame," as Tertullian styles it. With such surprising declarations from early Christian authorities, we are justified in asking which of the "sons of Jupiter," i.e., the Greek and Roman gods, was thus depicted as "crucified?" What we discover is that both the cross and a deity or man on a cross were common sacred motifs long before the Christian era. In reality, there were many depictions of Pagan gods and goddesses in cruciform or in cross shape, with arms outstretched, a motif considered by the Church fathers to represent the "sign of the cross," such as concerns Moses, for example, at Exodus 17:11.

To put the claims of her argument about the parallels of the crucifixion story in proper perspective, she further explained it here:

rhymz: Testimony of the Church Fathers

It needs to be emphasized that the claim is not that Horus was a human being thrown to the ground and nailed to a piece of wood. In CIE , I discuss the etymology of the word "crucify," which comes from the Latin crucifigere , composed of cruci / crux and affigere / figere , meaning "cross" and "to fix/affix," respectively.
Crucifigere and its English derivation "to crucify" mean "to fix to a cross," but not necessarily to throw down and nail to a piece of wood. What we are interested in, then, is whether or not pre-Christian gods and goddesses were depicted as fixed to a cross or in cruciform, appearing as a crucifix.

I doubt this is what anonym is interested in, he would rather play blind and dumb and continue to misrepresent the context of the argument and feign ignorance.
Archaya further went to give both sources and quotes from even church fathers, giving further credence to her argument about the crucifixion parallels:

rhymz: This motif of a pre-Christian or non-Christian god or man on a cross or cross-shaped is expounded upon by the Church fathers Tertullian (c. 160-c. 200) and Minucius Felix (2nd-3rd cents.).

In his Apology (16), Tertullian remarks:

"We have shown before that your deities are derived from shapes modelled from the cross. But you also worship victories, for in your trophies the cross is the heart of the trophy. The camp religion of the Romans is all through a worship of the standards, setting the standards above all gods. Well, as those images decking out the standards are ornaments of crosses. All those hangings of your standards and banners are robes of crosses." (Roberts, ANCL , 85)

The place where Tertullian had "shown before" his contentions about the Pagan gods being cross-shaped was in his work Ad Nationes (12), in a lengthy treatise which includes the following remarks:

"...The Heathens Themselves Made Much of Crosses in Sacred Things; Nay, Their Very Idols Were Formed on a Crucial [Crosslike] Frame.
"...your gods in their origin have proceeded from this hated cross... if you simply place a man with his arms and hands outstretched, you will make the general outline of a cross...." (Roberts, ANF , III, 122)

In his Octavious (29), Minucius echoes thesame sentiments:

"...The Egyptians certainly choose out a man for themselves whom they may worship... Crosses, moreover, we neither worship nor wish for. You, indeed, who consecrate gods of wood, adore wooden crosses perhaps as parts of your gods. For your very standards, as well as your banners, and flags of your camp, what else are they but crosses gilded and adorned? Your victorious trophies not only imitate the appearance of a simple cross, but also that of a man affixed to it." (Roberts, ANF , IV, 191)
In the same passage, Minucius states, "...crucis signum est, et cum homo porrectis manibus deum pura mente veneratur." (Felix, 66) To wit,"...the sign of the cross it is, also when a man stretching out his hands venerates God with a pure mind."

The reason why most times I do not waste my time answering this redundant question from about the very glaring similiarities between Jesus and other mythological Godmen is your resolve to be adamant to see what you want to see regardless of fact. At best, you will come up with an half baked googled up rebbutal from some shallow religious zealots who are not anywhere close having the intellect, resource and wherewithal to challenge with facts, the evidences of these similarities to show that Jesus Christ was realy a combinatiom early mythological characters that were known and worshipped before he, Jesus was invented too.
Again, I shall answer you with excerpts from Archaya where she exaustively revealed her sources, explained their myth and pointed out similarities and how it was actually not a conincidence but a grand design by religious mehn;

rhymz: 1. In my book Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection , I delve deeply into various parallels between the Jewish godman Jesus Christ and theEgyptian gods Horus and Osiris. Along with the claim that Horus was born on "December 25th" or the winter solstice of a virgin called Mery comes the contention that he was "crucified between two thieves," as Jesus is depicted to have been in the New Testament. Although I included this motif in my book The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold , this assertion does not originate with me but can be found in older sources, as highlighted in Christ in Egypt (" CIE ", which contains a 40-page chapter on the subject entitled "Was Horus 'Crucified?,'" with 120 footnotes citing primary sources as well as the works of respected Egyptologists and other scholars in relevant fields. This chapter in CIE also provides 18 images to illustrate the various points, such as the abundance of Pagan gods and goddesses in cruciform or cross shapes.

she went further to state here:

rhymz: The list of sources cited in the chapter "Was Horus 'Crucified?'" includes: ancient Egyptian primary sources such as the Pyramid Texts, CoffinTexts, Book of the Dead and other artifacts; the writings of the ancient historians Herodotus and Plutarch, philosophers Plato and Philo, and the Egyptian priest Horapollo; the Bible; noncanonical early Christian writings such as the Epistle of Barnabas, Acts of John and Acts of Pilate; the writings of early Church fathers Justin Martyr, Tertullian and Minucius Felix; Gnostic writings; Coptic writings such as the Kebra Nagast ; the Catholic Encyclopedia; the works of modern Egyptologists Drs. Erik Hornung, Raymond O. Faulkner, Jan Assman and Barbara S. Lesko; and the works of various theologians, historians and other professional scholars such as Pope Benedict XVI, Jean Doresse, Joseph Campbell, Dr. Roger Beck and Dr. Tryggve N.D. Mettinger.

with all these sources, if realy you are interested in the truth, you would go and verify her sources rather than play blind to them only to continue to ask for thesame thing that has already been presented to you.

Lol. . You are a christian weakling, where intellect has failed you, you resort to ignorantly quoting the so-called Zeitgeist Challenge from a fellow Christian apologist whose challenge is based on false logic and selective analysis of what is generally considered a genuine source by scholars-primary or secondary or otherwise.

Let me show you how just like your fairy tale books, the so-called challenge is dead on arrival as it is rife with illogical arguments and almost impossible request whose logic defiles its own arguments.
Below is my response to the illogicality and contradiction of your "primary source" request;

1. It is common knowledge that a majority of what would have constituted direct primary sources of history was deliberately, willfully and wantonly destroyed by the forebearers of thesame Christian fanatics and zealots with backings and state power influence from the early roman church fathers.
For example, the Roman statesman and soldier Marcus Terentius Varro (116-27 BCE )-called "the most learned of the Romans"-most of his work on religion ( Antiquitates rerum humanarum et divinarum ), which no doubt would have been eye- opening, were outlawed and destroyed by Marc Anthony on the recommendations and commentaries on him by St. Augustine (354-430).

2. Had this very important part of history not been deliberately destroyed, mostly by past fanatical supporters and fundamentalist of today's mainstream religions, Christianity and Islam in particular, shallow minded religious fellow like you probably would have gotten a better perspective of religion and its real history as opposed to the manufactured tales of history according to these mainstream religions of today.

3. More curious is the fact that in antiquity there exists large volumes of works about ancient religions specifically mentioned by the early Church fathers; however, all those have been lost, deliberately destroyed while the commentaries and depiction of history by Christian apologies and polemics against them still exists in the archives of the vatican. These works on religion obviously were around when the fathers wrote their commentaries, criticisms and diatribes against them, the church fathers couldn't possibly be making reactionary comments and criticisms if they did not exist.
Funny enough, the latter were preserved but the original bases of these apologies and polemics have been "lost" or deliberately destroyed.

4. It smirks of hypocrisy and insincerity for thesame group that has contributed immensely to the destruction of works from primary sources to turn around and ask for them when they want to win an argument at all cost-not that there are no snippets of these sources anyway, it just goes to show the desperation and lack of sincerity behind the Jesus Christ Story.

5. In the absence of obvious lack of direct primary sources as the religious forebearers thesame group have ensured it be so, quotation, references, commentaries, polemics and records of early historians, some of whom lived both during and immediately after the alleged era christ and christianity. Their writings and records represent more accurate, less bias account of history as opposed to the agenda based writings and records kept by the so-called early christians-most of which are forged and third party writings of unknown authors and writers.

6. If you contend certain records of history that has shown that the religion is a rehash of religions that had existed before it on the basis of primary source then I ask you again, on what direct primary sources are the gospel accounts taken from?
Have you contended the primary sources of the gospel accounts? Do you seriously believe that the gospel accounts were from the gang of 12 illiterate marauding fishermen, tax collectors and commoners aimlessly walking about with your Jesus?
Obviously, such an unlikely scenerio is not your immediate bone of contention as you have been programmed to think like a robot and only attack records that expose their lies and incoherence.

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Lol, still more babble and yet not one word in response to the challenge he asked for.[/quote]your joke is stale dude. If you can't answer the questions leave it at that, we will understand your intellectual plight cos honestly, it is an attempt in futility to prove beyond reasonable doubt that Jesus is any different from Zeus and co. Don't address it, you obviously can't. .lol

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Hurling insults won't take away the fact that you are yet to respond to the challenge you personally requested for.[/quote]you should be ashamed of yourself, trying to have the last word instead challenging me directly. . .lol.
You and the other christian militants obviously can't seem to defend your darline Jesus. . .hahaha. . I get it now, you wanna have the last say so it will look like you said anything to keep me silent. . .hahahah. . If you want to challenge me, do it directly and not through childish antics that makes you look petty, you obviously are smarter than resorting to stuff shallow-minded christian zealots like Bernimoore and his likes will do. You and I know your zeitgeist challenge has been squashed, face me directly and argue your case. I wont answer to zeitgeist challenge cos the main person who the challenge was thrown to had already exhaustively addressed the so-called challenge and even went further to challenge him to a debate which he obviously ignored as it was obvious the woman was an intellectual overmatch to challenge.
You can keep deluding yourself hoping that your christian sheeples reading the exchange in the thread will see you as sb with substance that has silenced this annoying anti-christian challenge. You and I know that for real, Nobody, not even the Pope can pick up the challenge of proving Jesus's historicity outside the incoherent biblical tales written by thesane people making the claims of his actual existence. In the words of Archaya,
"If the gospel tales were true, why should God need Pius lies to give them credit?
Lies and forgeries are only needed to bolster up falsehood, "nothing stands in need of lying but a lie.
That is why all you christians can do in the face of very genuine questions for proof of his existence outside the biblical tales is to get angry, hate the guts of the person asking or try to divert through petty dismissal antics. Why do you lot find it so hard to defend him, your best is usually the bible says blablabla. . My father also says back in his days Amadioha was a god that walked with Igbo men; it does not change the fact that he is passing to me the nonsense his greatgrand parents had passed to his father; does it make it true, hell no!
Jesus actually existed, ok prove it na!
Abeg make una go siddon for gutter jare and tell urselves the truth, a majority of us are christians and muslims today not because of our deepseated convictions but because we were born into these mainstream religions and have been programmed to believe everything about, I bet if the white man did not colonize your ancestor you wont be here defending some fictious white dude whose mystical stories have continued to change with time fitting into the prevailing belief systems of the times. Who knows what Jesus will be in another century, prolly an extra terrestial alien from a planet above nowhere in the sky in particular that will visit the earth with his spaceship of horses, chariots, trumpet and swords. Wait a minute, that is the 21 century Jesus image by the way. . .lol