₦airaland Forum

there's no need for this topic to get messy.
and there is no need for stereotypes as well; people are people and individual attributes should not be generalized as representative of a population of people.
in my case, i don't really find white women appealing. I live in the midwest so you can understand how abundant white women are here relative to blacks, but i find the few black women here much more attractive and appealing.
maybe its because i grew up in Naija, but that's just me.
some other brotha might find white women more appealing, its all a matter of preference.
by and large, i see people on an individual basis, beauty is fleeting, character is the koko.
when i find someone who shares my strong faith in God and appeals to me in character, beauty and compatibility, i'd stick with that person, irrespective of the race.
but if i had my way i'd rather marry not just a black, but a naija person of my tribe; i love speaking, singing and writing poems in my native language, lol
cheers everyone

somze:
@ricadelide
You are a source of knowledge. Even I am learning from your posts. Keep it up!!!

thanks man, even though man pikin no sabi anything,,,,,,,we still dey learn. cheers.

i worked as a graduate research (and teaching) assistant. Have to be in the lab from morning till night including weekends doing experiments. Also do some teaching of undergrads.
Sha, i enjoy it, so its all good.

@nferyn,

nferyn:
If I look at the different alternative world views, then I have to conclude that what Christianity offers is not very convincing to me

First, what do you think Christianity offers? There's a whole bunch of 'christianity' out there, and its so easy to get all muddled up. i want to know what you think christianity offers so we can discuss it.

nferyn:
Here you reach the core of the argument. On rational grounds, one cannot come to Christianity, but on emotional grounds I can see very well why people arrive at their religious belief; I don't dismiss people that arrive at a religious belief on emotional grounds and I don't even say that such grounds are less valid than other grounds. What I do dislike is that people say that their religious belief is rational. Anyone that claims his religious belief is rational is intellectually dishonest.

i stand to disagree with you. You are partly right in saying one doesn't come to christianity on rational grounds. the bible itself clearly states that in 1Corinthians. If you're curious you could read the 1st and 2nd chapters if you have access to a bible translation in current english like NIV. Why it has to be so, of course, is because if christianity was about arguments and the most superior of 'reason', then it would be an exclusive of only the professors and the wise men of this world, and that wasn't God's intention. As the bible says, "knowledge puffs up,,,,,If anyone supposes that he knows anything, he has not yet known as he ought to know" (1Cor.8.1-2) Neither is it about emotion, which is where you are wrong. there's a dimension of reality which is the spirit and for many people spiritual responses in humans tend to be emotive. eg conscience, guilt etc. but there is also the intellectual response which relates with the intuition. what brings people to christianity (and by christianity i'm referring to a very small group) is that their spirits are drawn to it. that's why the bible says "blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven" Matt. 7;3. The goal is that no one that becomes a christian can boast by saying its because of my intellect, or its because of my ability to feel what others can't. No. Every genuine christian is one because they respond to the power that draws them in contrition and humility - in some cases, rejecting their superior arguments in the process and even, rejecting their feelings of guilt (when the bible tells them they're exonorated) eg. 1John3;19,20.

Now the turning point is this; the bible says in 1Cor. 2;7, 'we speak a message of wisdom among them that are mature'. that is, those who are in HIm can appreciate the wisdom and depth of understanding that is found in Christ. And to them, everything about the Word and the gospel and so on, is perfectly rational and logical. If you want to discuss an issue in subject area in science, what do you do? you read up the authority in that field eg a textbook, and you reference it to show the validity of your claims. Its the same in Christianity, we regard the Word as the final authority, and it is referenced (logically) as the valid statement on any issue at hand. What i usually say is 'if everyone knew what i know (now), then everyone would be a child of God'. If you knew all about the faith, and the Word, i assure you you won't be an atheist. But that knowledge comes after one has humbled himself initially in acknowledging that he doesn't know anything, because (James. 4;6)

Now talking of faith; there's a very strong correlation between biblical faith and knowledge. the more of the word of God you know, the more faith you have. that seems illogical but its very true. On the other hand though, this seems to work contrary to worldly knowledge. For example its not so easy for a doctor (with all he 'knows') to beleive that someone can be cured of AIDS. his knowledge obstructs the knowledge of the word of God he pocesses (which is that: if he lays his hands on the sick, they would recover Mark. 16;18) and makes it difficult for him to exercise faith. But really they are not antitethical. Those who the bible terms as 'weak in faith' (Rom. 14) are those with limited knowledge and understanding of the Word. Faith itself is produced in us by the word of God we "hear" (Rom. 10.17- the word 'hear' there however is not just referring to the physical hearing). its just like reading the work of a scientific author you trust. when you read the words of the article, you have faith in the result they declare. In this case, we choose to consider the Word of God as being of more value/worth than that of any man. And the faith we have in the word is our evidence to Him of how dearly we hold is Word to be true. And of course, He proves himself.
So you say you're a man of reason. Christianity involves a lot of reason, but its not 'human' reasoning. Its about godly reason. Human reasoning is very limited. I've tried to illustrate that before. There are higher forms of logic and reasoning that can only be warranted when one has understanding of some spiritual concepts/realities that are beyond us. The bible gives a lot of examples of that. If one is not aware of those realities/premises, it would seem to an observer that a believer is not a person of reason. No. That person is just one who has other premises and thus makes use of a superior reasoning beyond his, in the process acknowledging that he knows little. That is why the bible says we 'have the mind of Christ' (1Cor. 2;16). There are so many things i'd love to say but for space i'd rest. Perhaps later i can give specific instances of how spiritual premises dictate forms of logic in a christian which are contrary to the normal human response. Cheers.

nferyn:
This is incorrect, the existence of Yahweh is logically impossible, just as cubic spheres are logically impossible. The existence of Invisible pink unicorns on the other hand has a probability of non zero and they are thus more likely to exist than Yahweh.

Tick, tock, tick, tock,,,,,,,,how old are you now? 65 more years (or thereabout) and you'd get to know the truth.
Lol,
Seriously though, i'm determined you find out before then. I asked you someplace else what your reasons for the 'logical impossibility' of Yahweh are, and you've not responded. I'd be willing to address the issues you raise later on. So do holla.
Cheers.

[quote author=pilgrim.1 link=topic=51282.msg1087377#msg1087377 date=1178138610]God bless the gentleman who had practically been on his knees for my conversion for over 3 years - and God answered his prayers.[/quote]May God bless him again, there's nothing like allowing God to use one to lead others to Him.

[quote author=pilgrim.1 link=topic=51282.msg1087377#msg1087377 date=1178138610]* Dr. Ed Murphy - The Handbook for Spiritual Warfare
Quite a volume written in a very easy-to-read style. Dr. Murphy treats this subject from both the OT and NT, and follows through with practical considerations on demonization. Several questions most Christians take for granted are also given sound answers (in my opinion).[/quote]Those are some great books and authors you listed there.
You might also want to try laying your hands on Dr. Rebecca Brown-Yoder's books; Prepare for war, He came to set the captives free, Becoming a vessel unto honour, etc. They are written in a very easy-to-read language, and document first-hand experiences of things in the realm of spiritual warfare. Cheers.

Quote from Dblock,
On what basis, there are so many contradictions and uncertainties in the good Book.

I better go to church tommorow, I've strayed away from christianity for a very long time, I might just become an Athiest.

just saw your post and decided to respond to you. I admire the way you've argued and discussed on this forum, however, it would be really nice if you could have an assurance of faith - and that can only come by knowing the God of the bible for yourself. True christianity is not about going to church. You probably might have heard that, but its really true. I for instance was in a circumstance where i couldn't attend church for months. It didn't weaken my relationship because i was still able to maintain my communication with God. Not that going to church isn't relevant. However, things are gonna get much more complicated and anti-faith in the world in the years to come, that it will take them that know their God, to be strong and stand firm. Christianity is real; some of us have been on the outside before, and have come in - and can testify to the truth.
Yeah, like you said, on a cursory glance at the bible, there'd seem to be many apparent inconsistencies, but in truth, that's what they are; apparent inconsistencies. The bible is such a huge book that anyone can reference a scriptural verse to make any point they want to. Even the devil did that. However there are principles for bible study. Scripture must be interpreted with scripture, and it must be 'a little here, a little there' Is.28;9-10. A detailed and thorough study via an accurate understanding of the bible will confirm to one what it is; the Word of God - flawless and true.
If you don't fully understand the gospel message you can try starting up from there, looking up the book of Romans, and if you respond to it you'll find understanding beyond what you experience now. At that time, it wont be about arguing for (i.e. to gain) knowledge, but arguing from knowledge. Because the One will be in you, and will lead you into (the knowledge of) all truth. (1John 2:20,21 & 27). Cheers.

the movie generates a record-breaking box office run - highest grossing opening day at $59 million. Highest worldwide opening at $104 million. Highest weekend gross at $148 million, shattering Pirates of the carribeand - dead man's chest's record. all this happening with poor reviews by the critics - seems no matter what the critics say, people will still go to see the movie.

nferyn, somze, bobbyjaf et al,

you guys should check this link
http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsa/n5ctrl/progs/06/hardtalk/mackay06sep.ram

and let me know what you think.

nferyn:
So basically you'll reject evidence if it contradicts your faith?

I knew you'd say that. That's not entirely true. I don't reject evidence, rather i'd hold the evidence to more scrutiny. The same evidence can be presented before two different people and their deductions could be different. For example, the evidence of comparative genomics in terms of the similarity of DNA across species is true. To a naturalist who doesn't beleive in God, it suggests that there is a common ancestor. To one who does, it illustrates that the creator left his blueprint in all his creatures - making different species with essentially the same material and varying the things he chooses to.
what baffles me is the way in which similarities are assumed to mean commonality of descent - that's the same idea behind bacteria and the mito - that assumption is only necessary when you rule out a creator.
micro-evolution seems to be more rapidly occuring in microorganisms than in higher species. Someone will make a deduction about that in a way that favours evolution. In my case, i have premises that make me see it in a totally different light.

I enjoy your posts as well - cos i can understand your position. However, I'd explain my grouses with the TOE in much detail later. I've spent too much time online today though; av'got papers to read.

nferyn:
I knew they had to exist somewhere, biologists that don't believe in evolution
You guys must be of a rare breed, sorry kind
Care to explain what exactly makes you doubt the TOE?

It's funny, i'm doing a Phd in molecular biology and i don't believe in evolution. I'm in a very lonely company though. LOL. But i'm sure there are are other biologists who don't.
I believe in intra-species evolution. At the very least, viruses are always evolving. i don't beleive in cross-species jumps.
the first doubt, of course, is that am a believer - i hold God's word to be absolutely true. Rather than why do i not believe in TOE, it's more like why should I? I don't expect science to believe in God, most scientists are naturalists, so it doesn't surprise me that we need a counter-argument to explain life and the universe. Believe me, the best place to enjoy biology is from a biblical christian perspective

WesleyanA:
what i found out is that it's fruitless to argue religion.

christianity is not a religion of logic. Because of how most of the stuff in the bible didn't make sense to me and some of my pastors preaching never made sense to me, i was thinking too that God didn't exist but i was scared that if he did exist (. . .if) I'll go to hell.

i'm about 80% believer now. even though i still think I'll end up in hell for doubting his existence.

like my pastor told me "God is not a God of logic. he does his stuff in mysterious ways" i guess that's a good explanation.

it's normal not to believe in God for a while i guess. maybe you're going through that stage of questioning who you are and what your place is in life. I knew i was going through that stage. I still am sort of.

There is definitely such thing as evolution though.

sigh, i'm still confused

wesleyan, first, it is not wrong for you to doubt when you're confused or dont have the answers. Even a disciple that followed Jesus for three years doubted, and he wasn't castigated. "However, blessed are they who have not seen and yet believe." But some people have to see and understand before they believe.
it is no surprise that many things in the bible seem not to make sense. it was the same for me at a point and even now, there are some things i don't fully understand. the bible is not just words, sentences and paragraphs. it isn't a storybook. it is representation of spiritual realities in words. if you don't have the Spirit of God, you can't understand the spirit behind the letter. (1Cor.2:13-15). On a very basic level though, translations that use modern day english eg NIV are much easier to understand, than say KJV. However, you need to have your inner eyes 'opened' to know the Word (Eph. 1:17-18)
it is not fruitless to argue religion, the bible says in 1Pet 3;15 to be always ready to answer anyone who asks. However we are not to devote ourselves to fruitless argumenst. Paul argued in the synagogues with the jews and also argued with the greeks. A huge part of the new testament writings of Paul are arguments; arguements against the false doctrines of their day and so on. The only problem with doing so is that no one comes to know God by fine-sounding arguments.(1Cor 2;1-4) You can't argue your way into a revelation knowledge of God. To the 'wise' person in this world, the message of the cross is foolishness (1Cor 1;18). Arguments help however to answer questions which keep us away from him; questions like evil in the world, etc. This issues keep us back and make us unwilling to devote our full attention to finding the answers. When we understand the major issues, then we can respond to His free gift of life. I think what your pastor meant to say is that God does not think like men, that the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom; (1Cor. 1;25) and His ways are not how ways Is. 55;8-9. Saying that christianity is not logic is false. It is a higher form of logic. eg. when someone hits you, what's the logical thing to do? Hit back. But when you have a premise like 'evil cannot be overcome with evil' (Rom 12; 17-21) then you can understand the logic behind turning the other cheek. When you come to know Him, He makes perfect sense and you come to appreciate His depth of unsearchable wisdom and understanding (see 1Cor 2;6-8, Rom. 11;33-36)

The beauty of the new dispensation is that the promise of God is "they will ALL know me, from the least to the greatest of them" (Heb. 8;10-12). Everyone can know Him and be sure of Him. Everyone can relate with Him because the barrier that seperated us has been broken (Eph. 2;12-19, Col1;14-15). That is the goal. If you don't know Him and you aren't sure, then that shows you that you're not yet living the life, and if you want to, you can make efforts to find Him.(Phil.3;8-10)
The bible is full of promises, God can be held to his word; "you will seek me and you will find me when you search for me with all your heart". There are too many scriptures to quote here. However, the first thing to understand is that the prayer of a sinner he will not hear. the only prayer of an unbeliever that he'll hear is the prayer of repentance. From there on, it's bliss all the way.
If you have issues that make you less of a believer (the other 20%), ask them and we'll try to answer. then i'd explain how it is you can get to know God for yourself.
And by the way, its not possible to hold that GOd's word is true and also believe that macroevolution is true. Either one is true and the other false or they are both false. In my case, i dont believe in evolution - and i'm a biologist,    Rom. 3;4. Cheers.

nferyn:
Quite simply that the presupposition that revelation is true is a composite truth claim and that it in itself is contradictory because the different elements of revelation contradict each other (e.g. the impossibility of the omnimax god).

Pray, what do you mean by the above statement: (the impossibility of the omnimax god), i'm curious.

nferyn:
For a specific deity, such as the Judeo-Christian Jahweh on the other hand, I can most definitely support my claim of non-existence. Start by clearly defining your God and his characteristics and we can talk, as Jahweh is a different entity to different people.

Please, let me have your evidence to disprove his non-existence based on His claims of His characteristics. I guess it's more probable though that you have a distorted perception of Him. But then, i'm curious.

@nferyn,
On re-reading your posts, one thing i notice is that you seem to think that the reason people believe in the existence of God is because they don't have sufficient answers for what is found in nature. thus you feel that it is understandable that people of old could place God where their understanding was limited, but that since knowledge has increased and all, God seems to and will continue to have little or no 'space' to occupy in the universe. I guess that's why you find it hard to understand why intelligent people can believe in God.
i must let you know that you are VERY wrong. You are putting the cart before the horse. God is not a creation of man's mind but vice versa. our consciousness of God is innate; rather than being a response to the vastness of our universe. In fact, the more we know, the more we get to appreciate God and His work. Increase in knowledge doesn't take the place of God, rather it increases His place in creation because we know more things about the details of His work than was known. Before creation, GOD IS. Creation is a result of God, it didn't CREATE God. there are realms of knowledge, the physical, the mental and the spiritual. for someone like me, i get to know God more continually irrespective of any new scientific knowledge,,,,,knowledge can try to suppress God consciousness in people who presuppose God's non-existence. However, it cannot replace God. Neither will scientific knowledge be able to define or explain the meaning of life or answer the many questions that plague our consciousness. For those who know Him, knowledge increases His place.

sorry it took long to reply, i initially felt it was pointless.

If it is, why don't you bring some sound evidence of that fact? Assertion is no substitute for reason.
It is perfectly reasonable to believe that a supreme being made everything in the earth. THe only reason why you think it is not plausible is because you are a naturalist, pressupossing that everything in the universe is material in nature, thus you seek material evidence for a spiritual being - which will never happen. I'm sure you've been exposed to numerous arguments about the many immaterial parts of our universe, and many abstractions notably the very logic you claim to be a basis for obtaining and verifying truth. Just like you presuppose, i presuppose the revelation of God through His Word, and it is a perfectly plausible explanation for the universe as it is - in all its vastness and order.

The supernatural on the other hand can neither be investigated nor understood, as it lacks that regularity and lawfulness. By calling something supernatural (even though there is no reason to do so), you're putting it out of the reach of scientific investigation and shield it from inquiry. It's the epithetome of organised and institutionalised ignorance.i must let you know that, in all sincerity, YOU are the one that is ignorant in not knowing that there is the supernatural. Some more assertion. Where's your evidence?
First, it isn't true that the supernatural cannot be investigated. In actual fact, it can. But like i said the last time, you can't use a light microscope to view a picornavirus, it hasn't got the proper resolution. HOwbeit there are physical manifestations of the supernatural, it is subject to each person's interpretation and for a naturalist, the possibility of a physical manifestaiton having its origins in the supernatural is ruled out ab initio.

Possibly. Define the non physical and ellaborate on how one can investigate that non physical. If you are unable to do that, your claims are empty talk.
Unfortunately we don't have a common ground when it comes to discussing spiritual issues. In my sphere, spiritual issues are constantly being investigated. But to quote someone; "the evidence used to prove something exists must correspond to its nature".
Apart from the spiritual though, the mental process including logic as well as consciousness and personality is immaterial, and you'd really have a hard time trying to prove that it is a mere product or illusion of our brain's physical activity.

Indeed they cannot (directly) be explained by science, but what makes you think religion is up to the task?
First, I'm not trying to defend 'religion' here; i'm not an advocate of religion and, it might surprise you that i view atheism as just another religion masquerading itself as being seperate from it. it takes faith to be an atheist (faith in the presupposition that the universe is material, amidst other presuppositions i wont mention now). the only thing difference is that many religions believe in a supreme being, but not all - buddism for example doesnt.
However, my major presupposition is that God has revealed himself in His Word; the Bible, and from that point i think i have answers to many things - at least to the limits by which my finite mind can grasp. I search and investigate the Word, and it proves itself. what makes my faith as a child of God different from other faith-systems is that it self-validates, and we have assurance (through logic and what not) of our faith. I'm perfectly sure of what i believe and my spiritual journey continually takes me to greater levels of certainty. No other belief system including atheism is perfectly sure of its initial presupposition.

It is indeed hard for me to understand how educated, intelligent people can continue to believe in religion. That's the main reason why I enter these debates.
First to address the issue of 'religion'. We're all religious beings - if the common denominator for religions is the employment of faith. You have faith in the natural realm, and that affects your whole outlook. I once read a sticker which said; "i don't have enough faith to be an atheist".  if anything, if you talk to a christian who has been 'saved' they don't see themselves as religious but as spiritual. Many of the most intelligent people i've ever known are christians. the two terms are not mutually exclusive. I find it hard to see how intelligent people will reject God - but, again, i know the reason why this is so. I'm a biologist that's why i talk about biology. If anything, my faith in God gives me more interest in science because i can see everything i observe in the right perspective and it makes perfect sense. Many times when you listen to biologists you can 'hear' the deification of 'nature', like it is an entity on its own who dictates what is and shouldn't be. For someone with a revelation of God, everything falls in proper place.

As I've written before, I would very much appreciate it if you could provide a method for verifying these claims, but I must say that mere faith, to quote CS lewis, doesn't cut it for me. There don't seem to be any rational reasons for belief, do you have any other?
what you fail to acknowledge is that all philosophical systems or world outlooks involve faith. Faith is the foundation for logic, because logic makes pressupositions. Christian faith presupposes a God who has revealed himself. From that point on, logic helps to understand and explain what is revealed. But the process of revelation is not mental, but rather spiritual. God reveals himself not in mere words but in spirit and those who have their hearts enlightened can receive the revelation of God.

Cheers.

viee:
you can start by defining the term 'born again'
and why you think catholics are not that?

like i said, this is a thread about islam, and i dont want to change the topic. if you ask the question on another thread, i'd answer it.
Hope you're OK with that.

viee:
what do u mean by became a catholic and then a born again christian?

what are catholics?

em, viee, this is a little off-topic but roman catholicism as a religion is not the same as being a born-again christian. Perhaps that's an issue for another thread.
I used to be a catholic, my parents still are, but now i'm a believer or a born-again christian by God's grace and I've stopped attending the roman catholic church.
However, i've met some catholics who i can say are born-again christians but still go to the roman catholic church, but i must say its a bit dicy. I definitely wouldn't do it.
If you want more clarification you can address it in another thread.

why is it called 'white' wedding? Because its an imitation of what obtains in the western world?
i'd have both a church wedding and a trado if i happen to marry a naija girl (otherwise, just the church wedding)

mine would definitely have to be cooking. washing plates? No problem. Doing laundry? No wahala. Cooking? I NEED HELLPPP!!
And then, i wouldn't mind someone helping me to read huge loads of scientific literature I had to read, if only there was a way someone else could read for you!

Bros, abeg, verify your posts before you make them; GOD IS NOT A MAN!!

and what's with the multiple threads, lol

nferyn:
Maybe our Christian friends could explain an atheist ignoramus how exactly Christian faith differs from Muslim submission, except in their different degrees of irrationality?

My interest here is not comparisons between Christianity and Islam, 'cos there's no basis for such - if you understand the deep teachings of either faith, you know they are worlds apart from each other.

However, nferyn, for the purpose of the 'rationality' which you so desire, i want you to come out of your atheism bubble for a minute and assume the God of the bible actually exists. I know that's a tough call, but please do so for the purpose of this post. Going by the mere fact that he cannot be seen with the physical eyes here on earth do you not think that faith is/should be the rational approach for relating with him?
We actually do a lot of living by faith as humans - faith in the existing physical laws that we are aware of. Awareness of natural laws becomes a part of our subconscious and we do not have to live in rational thought about certain actions when they become a part of us - because we know they are real. Take for example mere walking. When your eyes are not looking at the ground, taking steps involves faith (albeit all so passive) that the ground is level. when you step into a pot-hole do you then realise what you took for granted. My point is - when something is real to you, you don't need faith to define the existence of the thing, and faith slips to passive acceptance.
Now consider distant relationships, you have someone you love and trust because you knew that person, then you became seperated by distance. It takes faith for you to know that person will remain faithful to you. And for some with strong faith in each other, even when a false report comes about the person, you refuse to acknowledge it - because you trust that person (of course you could be wrong). I dont need faith to acknowledge that the person existed, i need faith to predict the actions of the person when i can't see them. In this realm of invisibilty and predictions is when faith becomes active.
I'm just using examples to illustrate my points.
Awareness of God and his attributes for/by a christian provokes faith - for predicting God's intention/ability to fulfil His word, for verifying His attributes, etc. It is perfectly rational. The only reason why it seems so irrational to you to live by faith is cos you assume (or rather beleive) that there is no God. You don't know that there is no God. In my own 'bubble', I know that there is a God, and relating with him by faith is perfectly rational for me because there are premises for such beleifs. If you know something is real you don't need faith to verify the existence of the thing, you only need faith to predict the actions of the entity under different circumstances.

Consultant:
If you like fiction, I recommend any book written by Francine Rivers. I have read Reedeming Love and Atonement Child and both were awesome.

yeah, i've read some of her books. She does a good job. Talking about Christian fiction, in my opinion, none does it better than Frank Peretti. I've read nearly all his books and they are just awesome.

@ KAG,
i had two posts; i dont think you read the prior post, perhaps it would answer some of your questions.

@ topic,

"And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory." Eph. 1;13-14

True christianity is not about probabilities, neither is it a question of 'if's' and 'if nots' (2Cor.1;18-20). Those who have experienced God are 101% sure of Him and of the hope they have. 101% because it is more real than the physical (2Cor5;1-10, Heb.11) and thus is beyond earthly or human contentions. Its a matter of knowledge and experience. We have been given the Holy Spirit as a guarantor, a downpayment, a foretaste of that which is to come (2Cor.1;22, 2Cor.5;5, Eph.1;14). We are not waiting till we die before we know if we were right or not. NO! Heaven can be experienced now (Eph.2;6); eternal life (John. 17;3) can be experienced now; salvation of the soul is experienced NOW (1Pet1;9). Indeed, they that know their God,,,,,,,,,
We talk of is something we have tasted, felt and touched. (John 1;1). That is why 'christians' who don't have that level of confidence (as a result of knowledge and experience) ought to really re-consider. Although it talks about a hope, we know it is a sure hope. "We have this confidence (or hope) as a sure and strong anchor for our lives. This confidence goes into the holy place behind the curtain" (Heb. 6;19)

So, coming to the topic, contrary to what many people think, we have a lot to lose if christianity was a sham; this is addressed in 1Cor 15. Looking at Paul's statment in Phil 3;8, or verses like Matt.13;44, Matt.19;27 or Luke 14;33 - which should be our experience - then indeed the stakes are very high. Like Peter, we have left everything to follow Him! And as such, if christianity was a sham, "we are of all men most miserable" 1Cor. 15;19!

But, thank God we KNOW that it is not a sham; "when Christ who is our life appears, we shall also appear with Him in glory" (Col.3;4)
"Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now we know in part; then we shall know fully, even as we are fully known" (1Cor.13.12)

wow, i find it hard to say one particular christian book is my favorite, i guess i've read one too many, lol
However i think i can pick my favorite author, and that would be Watchman Nee.
FOr those who don't know him, he was a Chinese preacher/teacher/evangelist. He died in 1969 after being imprisoned by the communist government for many years. If you seek for a deep relationship with God and revelation of His Word, then i'd really recommend laying hands on his books, i would say its a must for every Christian seeking a deeper experience of God. I've never come across any other author in our day who even comes close in that aspect.

He has so many books to his name and i can't list all here but SOme of his notable titles are; The Normal Christian life, Changed Into His Likeness, How To Study The Bible (excellent book), Love Not The World, The Spiritual Man (which, in my opinion, is his classic work), and so many others.

I'd REALLY recommend him to anyone who has never 'passed through' his books; it would be best to start with the Normal Christian Life and then 'graduate' into the others.

Cheers! And best wishes in our quest to know Him more.

IDINRETE:
quote from ricadelide
Their vows are usually of more value to them than their own lives. Deut.23;21 "When thou shalt vow a vow unto the LORD thy God, thou shalt not slack to pay it: for the LORD thy God will surely require it of thee; and it would be sin in thee." There are many other scriptures like this.

thats right there are many other bloody thirsty verses in the scriptures like that, Lord thy God surely require a vow demanding human sacrifice and meaningless killings of Israelites enemies

Being able to read does not translate to being able to understand what it written. The above misinterpretation is a very good example of that malady.
If you dont have anything to say, say nothing; rather than rambling and trying to detract from issues.

LMAO at this thread!!!!!

babyosisi:
We had a lipton bag in a flask of hot water,sorrounded by little rubber cups of different colors,a loaf of bread nearby,a tin of carnation milk,(blueband margarine and queen of the coast on a good day )

LOL, and i thought we were the only ones! gone are the days,,,,,,

under normal circumstances, your post does not warrant a response, but just so some gullible people will not be influenced by your error,,,,,,,,,

The Bible is unequivocal, don't think you (or rather the people that wrote the article you posted) are the first person (or people) to misquote scripture and append the false interpretation they want to it; Satan did it. (see Matt 4), so, you see, to be a little sarcastic, you are in 'good' company .
However, i wont stoop down to answering you word for word because it isn't worthwhile, but just like Jesus needed only one scriptural verse to silence the misinterpretations of Satan, i will only need to quote one scripture to you:
"People die once, and after that they are judged." Heb. 9;27 (GWT). Shikena. Adam, like the rest of us men, die only once and are judged. there is no second chance afforded by reincarnation.

However, there is little wonder that you posted this, considering that - reading your other posts - you are the same person who thinks sex is essential for spiritual growth, who smokes weed and think it is right for christians, who says masturbation was approved by God for the isrealites, to mention a few amidst the many atrocious statements you have made. Indeed, by their fruits you shall know them. May God open your eyes and deliver your soul from the tight grip of satan's deception.

IDINRETE:
I DID NOT SAY GOD ASK JEPHTAH TO SACRIFICE HIS DAUGHTER

WHAT I SAID WAS WHY GOD ALLOWED JEPHTAH TO SACRIFICE HER DAUGHTER,

IS THAT NOT ONE OF THE MANY ATROCITIES ALLOWED BY YAHWEH? SO DONT BLAME OGUN AND OTHER WORSHIPERS FOR HUMAN SACRIFICE, THEY ARE ONLY REPLICATING JEPHTAH AND YAHWEH/JEOVAH

I wonder why people think they are smarter than God.

In Old testament Isreal vows are held as sacred, and when people make vows, they keep to it. Their vows are usually of more value to them than their own lives. Deut.23;21 "When thou shalt vow a vow unto the LORD thy God, thou shalt not slack to pay it: for the LORD thy God will surely require it of thee; and it would be sin in thee." There are many other scriptures like this.

As a human being you must be careful of what you say, and of what vows you make - Jephthah should have considered the possibility of his daughter coming out of his house when he made that vow, but he didn't. That was his fault.

But beyond that, do you think Jephtha was happy that she came out to meet him, not to mention God?  Maybe you should hear what he said; Judges 11;35 -"When he saw her, he tore his clothes and said, "Alas, my daughter! You have brought me very low, and you are among those who trouble me; for I have given my word to the LORD, and I cannot take it back." emphasis mine.

The daughter decided to come out to meet him. Do you know if God warned her not to come out and she did not heed? It was her decision, not God's. And it was Jephthah's decision to sacrifice her as well, not God's.

If it was left to God to decide, he would have said no, just like he did in the case of Abraham and Isaac where he provided a ram.

And to show that even the victim (his daughter) understood the weight of a vow, she was not offended but encouraged him in his action as is evident in her statement: Judges 11;36: "So she said to him, "My father, you have given your word to the LORD; do to me as you have said, since the LORD has avenged you of your enemies, the sons of Ammon."

So when things happen - many times in a way that GOd himself does not want - let's not blame GOd for the actions of humans. It is very clear the humans in this case made mistakes; in not weighing what they said before saying it, and in not being careful. God is not an author of confusion. God allows many things, just like he allowed you to make the post you just made against Him, he doesn't mean he is responsible for it.

Anyway, back to the topic.