₦airaland Forum

TAO11:
If you will not twist, not lie, and not take my statement out if its intended context (as you you've already done here for bigotry purposes), then why not. ??

While I've been addressing all your contentions in full, there is one simple question that you've been consistently avoiding oo. See below:

Is it true that the gReAt BeNiN kInGdOm was reduced to a MERE VILLAGE ?? ??

Please say No. Don't disappoint gReAt BeNiN kInGdOm.

So it's settled then. According to you, the Fulani ruling elites of Ilorin were initially Yorubas.

TAO11:
To the extent that they fought for a Yoruba Army, under a Yoruba commander; YES!

Talking about internal crisis:

Is it true that the gReAt BeNiN kInGdOm was reduced to a MERE VILLAGE ?? ??

Please say NO.

Now, that you have admitted that your Fulani conquerors and rulers of ilorin were Yoruba initially, hope you will not deny it in the future when I quote you.

Unless you can explain how common mercenaries who fought under Yorubas became the ruling elites.

TAO11:
Read again and tell me what part of that you didn't understand to be internal-crisis induced.

Anyways, talking about internal crisis. See below:

"Towards the end of the seventeenth century, a number of European observers noted that the Edo Kingdom of Benin had been racked for some years by civi war. One of the longest accounts, that of David van Nyendael, reported that as a result of this civil war, Benin City had been sacked and in his day ("1699 -1701" ) was reduced to a 'mere village'. Apparently beginning shortly before 1690, the civil war stretched on well into the eighteenth century."

Paula Ben-Amos Girshick and John Thornton, "Civil War in the Kingdom of Benin, 1689-1721: Continuity or Political Change?", Journal of African History, 42 (2001), pp.353-354.

So the Fulani that conquered and continue to rule your ilorin were internal Yoruba people.

.

TAO11:
We never denied internal conflict. Even the Fulani fight was internal between a Yoruba army that aligned himself with them to help fight his own people.

The fact that you often bring Yoruba internal crisis may give everyone the impression that Benin did not have civil war.

Yes Benin did have civil war. A civil war that was so bad that Benin was reduced to a mere village.

"Towards the end of the seventeenth century, a number of European observers noted that the Edo Kingdom of Benin had been racked for some years by civi war. One of the longest accounts, that of David van Nyendael, reported that as a result of this civil war, Benin City had been sacked and in his day ("1699 -1701" ) was reduced to a 'mere village'. Apparently beginning shortly before 1690, the civil war stretched on well into the eighteenth century."

Paula Ben-Amos Girshick and John Thornton, "Civil War in the Kingdom of Benin, 1689-1721: Continuity or Political Change?", Journal of African History, 42 (2001), pp.353-354.

Do you mean how you lost Ilori to your Fulani rulers/conquerors.

TAO11:
In their joint work, viz. "Civil War in the Kingdom of Benin, 1689-1721: Continuity or Political Change?", Paula Ben-Amos Girshick and John Thornton writes:

"Towards the end of the seventeenth century, a number of European observers noted that the Edo Kingdom of Benin had been racked for some years by civi war. One of the longest accounts, that of David van Nyendael, reported that as a result of this civil war, Benin City had been sacked and in his day ("1699 -1701" ) was reduced to a 'mere village'. Apparently beginning shortly before 1690, the civil war stretched on well into the eighteenth century."

Paula Ben-Amos Girshick and John Thornton, "Civil War in the Kingdom of Benin, 1689-1721: Continuity or Political Change?", Journal of African History, 42 (2001), pp.353-354.

You are only confirming your obsession with Benin to hide your own civil wars including the wars other brought to you.

Yoruba and their Fulani conquerors would be an interesting history.

davidnazee:
My broda their obsession is out of this world. It’s driving them crazy. Yoruba cannot tell their history without mentioning Benin. Any Yoruba stories must always include Benin.
Their attempts to attach themselves to greatness has driven them mad.

Come to think of it, how would they be able to tell their history without Benin and afford not fighting themselves or reigniting old animosities.

Benin is the way they prevent themselves from retelling the history of how they used to kill themselves.

Take Benin out of their history, you begin to hear how

1. Modakeke once sacked their almighty Ife.

2. How Ibadan conquered and enslaved follow Yorubas and sold them to the white man.

3. How Oyo once sacrificed other Yorubas to their gods.

4. Fights over disjointed versions of their history.

So they desperately need Benin to avoid retelling these tales.

TAO11:
Why are you all trying to steal my lines -- either by direct lifting as gregyboy was caught red-handed doing yesterday, or by 'garnishing' it slightly? ? ? ? Why ? Why ? Why ? Why ? I am crying!!!!!

Without even knowing it, you are terribly in love with Benin.

When the Benins revealed that they were exploring Benin relationship with the Niger Benue confluence area, you immediately reminded them that Ife used to be in that area, you even stated that there is a town there called Ife.

You unwittingly claimed that the Yorubas came from the same area.

I said wow, this babe is ready to move her almighty Ife in Osun state to Kogi state in other to show that the Ife the Benin are looking for was in Kogi. She is out to claim Benin for Ife by fire by force.

You can only see the pain in Babaramota's reply when he read that the Benin are questioning the Benin/Ife relationship.

Metaphysical hasn't been himself since and TAO11 is ready to move her Ife to anywhere the Benin looks.

The Yoruba love and obsession with Benin is something else.

TAO11:
eeyah...

You obviously can't connect words ... I see the oftrepeated Benin fear for reading.


Having already mentionied too much Jokes in relation to Abdominal Pains, you still demanded clarifications and spoonfeeding to know that Jokes induce Laughter which, if too much, causes abdominal pains?? ??

Wow!! I'm gradually oosing hope on "Binihumanity".


Anyways, the spoonfeeding is now ready. Go and see on more time (hopefully for the last time).

You can now get it that the joke in on you for not realising the joke in my joke.

On a more honest note and jokes apart, I really need to see Metaphysical work Babaramota so praised.

TAO11:
Me: "Prove that your point is correct, and prove me wrong --- by citing independent academic evidence."


You: "I have a friend --- he is Yoruba --- He said I'm correct. So, I am correct"


Me: Like seriously!!??


It's too early for jokes. I'm can still feel abdominal pains from last night.


Wait a minute, samuk, what happened to your 18 summary points!!??

Waiting for Metaphysical great and brilliant work according to Babaramota.

MetaPhysical:
Babaraaaaaamoooota!!
Oko dudu oko pupa
Oko borokini elepon mefa!

You don dissapear, we no see you again.

The nok story is not to be told to inferiors.. Its a guarded story among Yorubas. It tells of greatness of Oduduwa and his exploits.

Poor Babaramota, he didn't know that TAO11 has since droved Metaphysical away from this thread days ago.

The reasons Metaphysical would not dear share such history here are.

1. TAO11 warned him not to do so because such will spoil the Yorubas fabricated argument.

TAO11 even force Metaphysical to retract when he made the mistake of contradicting TAO11 on her Orun Oba Ado fallacy calling it stupid and referring to those that believe the crap to be stupid.

TAO11 gave him the matching order and asked him to leave the thread, which he did like a coward.

The only time you see him on his thread now is mostly to support whatever TAO11 says, he dears not come up with his own arguments the way you have just told us Oduduwa was from Mecca.

Unfortunately, the so called brilliant work you said he wrote is now going to die a natural death because TAO11 forbids him from sharing it to a public thread such as this.

It's only the Yorubas that will be sharing the work amongst themselves because it can't be backed up and defended with credible evidence.

2. If Metaphysical share that work, the Benin people around here will just walk all over it, pointing out all the contradictions, lies, illogical logics and baseless claims in it.

3. Unlike Babaramota that sees the work as brilliant, the Benin guys are way too smart to be fooled.

If you think I am lying, I challenged Metaphysical to share such work here.

If Metaphysical is not destroyed by TAO11, he will be destroyed by the Benins and even you Babaramota wouldn't be able to save him.

3. TAO11 believes her version of Yoruba history is the authentic and wouldn't entertain any other version from anyone else, certainly not from her small boy Metaphysical.

So Babaramota, you are on your own on this request.

If you think I am lying or joking, let him share it.

TAO11:
That Pyramid which happens to be the largest man made monument according to the Guinness World Records was mad before 1974 and was in fact made in ancient times before the mechanical era.

So, I just killed two latest Bini damage control lies with just one comment.

The best way to actually discount what you see as two different conflicting information, monuments/structure is to write the Guinness book of world records for clarifications

I have no reason to doubt my sources. You are the one that have problems with my sources, so you can take it up with the Guinness book of world records.

davidnazee:
Yes I can read it and I hope u are learned enough to know that Guinness records always update every year. Records are broken all the time.
As at 1974 it was regarded as the largest man made structure using earth work.
I believe it is still the largest of its kind.

This is the problem you get from those that jumps into a thread from the middle.

They start to ask questions that have been answered several times and when you ignore them, they become upset and start to throw tantrums like little children.

When I first presented the link, I clearly stated pre mechanical era. It means when it was built, it was the greatest human fit on planet earth by any human race, I even went on to state that originally, it's what all Nigeria should be proud of but they are just too ethnically blinded.

Moneywomen17:
what “audience” my guy. And if anybody buy that shit u are selling irrespective of tribe, they are indeed gullible.

Are all Yoruba people this uncut and behave like animals in public spaces.

Cant you guys string few sentences together without the use of foul languages, so much for being sophisticated.

Must you always display your agbero attitude and lack of manners and etiquette when someone disagrees with you.

Can't you just express yourself and move on without getting overly worked up and start to lose your senses.

Why do you think you are so important that you must be responded to.

Moneywomen17:
the guy is a clown. He thinks he is some lawyer in front of a jury with his “the audience bullshit” the truth is all he writes is crap with unacceptable source but as long as he thinks his imaginary audience might be as dumb as him to believe him. It’s fine. Lol what a nonce

Guy, you are very new here, the thread didn't start today, it will do you a great deal to go and read from the beginning of the thread and get yourself properly acquainted with the topic. People have right to ignore you.

TAO11:
I know you are here to trick your gullible audience whose gullibility you have too much confidence in.



Well, I chose to expose you.

Tell me if I don't have the right or freedom to do that.

It's hubris to think it's only you and your Yoruba people that have all the knowledge by calling other audience/tribes gullible.

TAO11:
Samuk, can you now see that lies can-not suppress truth whenever truth is ready.

All your summarized lies from 1 to 13 abi 18, I wasted them all with truth.




Truth pays, no matter how small it portrays Benin Kingdom.

Truth by Yoruba standards. It's up to other tribes to determine.

TAO11:
No one is assuming here. I was only exposing you and calling you out unreservedly and unapologetically.



I am still waiting for what Guiness World Records says directly, not from some Facebook account which claims to be talking about Guiness World records.

https://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/largest-pyramid/

What part of I am not here to convince you don't you comprehend.

I present my evidence and move on. Those that are wasting their times with you should also be doing the same with counter narratives and evidences.

It's up to the audience/other tribes to reach their conclusion based on the evidence before them

TAO11:
Other tribes too will be wondering like:

But wait oo, Guinness itself is directly saying that the largest monument is a pyramid, but somehow this samuk guy sha wants us to believe a 3rd party Facebook source which says its Benin wall while claiming to be making reference to same Guinness that we've heard from directly. Hmmmm! We hear and obey you samuk!

C'mon samuk, what do you take other tribes for?? ??

Don't assume other tribes can't make informed decisions themselves, other tribe may not necessarily see things and think like the Yoruba.
Whatever conclusion other tribes make out of it is theirs not us.

TAO11:
We no want Facebook oo. We want Guiness World Record directly where they said a Pyramid is THE greatest monument

I have repeatedly told you that my submissions are not for the Yoruba, you forgot?

Moneywomen17:
why secondary source why not primary source.

If that source is not good enough for you, no any other sources will. I don't fall for cheap excuses.

I didn't post the link for you but other tribes.

davidnazee:
I see u have gone the way of ur useless Yoruba bobrisky TAO11..

Anyways The Guinness Book of Records (1974 edition) described the walls of Benin City and its surrounding kingdom as the world’s largest earthworks carried out prior to the mechanical era. According to estimates by the New Scientist’s Fred Pearce, Benin City’s walls were at one point “four times longer than the Great Wall of China, and consumed a hundred times more material than the Great Pyramid of Cheops”.

I even gave her the opportunity to watch the video in the link and yet she still came back with what she wrote.

Typical tribal bigot.

Moneywomen17:
typical someone quoting and actual source Guinness world record which is very credible and someone else trying to use Facebook as a counter. That’s nairaland for u.

Those you watched on the video were quoting from Ayelala.

I don't know when you joined this thread and topic.

If you had cared to read a few pages back, you would have seen were a severally repeated that I don't post for the Yorubas but other tribes.

So your argument makes no difference to me.

My submissions and replies are not for Yoruba audience buy the benefits of other tribes.

Moneywomen17:
my man. Are pyramids not man made or do u think they appeared out of nowhere

Have you watch the attached link. If you haven't then watch the video and come back with your question.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=257034751865597&id=250714491773177&sfnsn=mo

TAO11:
I knew your English deficiency will show!

Its says "The largest pyramid, AND THE LARGEST MONUMENT EVER CONSTRUCTED, is the Quetzalcóatl Pyramid at Cholula de Rivadavia."



In other words the largest monument ever constructed is a pyramid--- this particular pyramid.


Show me Guinness World Record's Weblink as I have been showing. Not Facebook

https://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/largest-pyramid/

Largest Pyramid is different from largest man made structure.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=257034751865597&id=250714491773177&sfnsn=mo

Even if you spin it and argue from now till tomorrow, it's still larger than anything ever built in Africa let alone your little enclave.

davidnazee:
I still say u are a fool and dumb.
Yoruba say oduduwa came from a town called Oke Ora.. Ora hills is not name of a town.
Well as usual you Yorubas are full of contradictions and make believe history.

Benin history is certain; we ruled over Yoruba for hundreds of years.

Benin city was in the league of the first cities to have a likeness of street lighting with large metal lamps, a large number of feet high, built and placed around the city

TAO11:
Oga calm down! You bungled on this one as always.

The world's largest man-made monument on earth is a pyramid.

"The largest pyramid, and the largest monument ever constructed, is the Quetzalcóatl Pyramid at Cholula de Rivadavia."



I wont cite you Facebook links. No! I will rather cite you a link to Guinness World Records itself.


See link below to Guinness World Record webpage.

https://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/largest-pyramid/

Largest Pyramid is different from largest man made structure.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=257034751865597&id=250714491773177&sfnsn=mo

Even if you spin it and argue from now till tomorrow, it's still larger than anything ever built in Africa let alone your little enclave.

TAO11:
Regarding yo

The “Great Wall” of Benin
You are here:HomeSwiftTalk Service TownsStatesThe “Great Wall” of Benin
Aug, 16, 2019


https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=257034751865597&id=250714491773177&sfnsn=mo


In Benin, capital city of present day Edo State stood the walls of Benin (800 – 1400AD) which are the longest ancient earthworks in the world and apparently the largest man-made structure on earth. The walls are a set of earthworks comprising of banks and ditches called Iya in the native tongue. It comprises 15 kilometres (9.3 miles) of “Iya” (banks and ditches) city and an estimated 16,000 kilometres (9,900 miles) in the rural areas surrounding Benin. As at that time, with its enormous length, it was speculated to be double the length of the Great Wall of China, until it was declared in the year 2012 (after five years of thorough measurement by Chinese surveyors) that the Great wall has a length of around 21, 0000 km.

The time of construction is not precisely known which gives it different assumptions as to the date

First view: Graham Connah predicted the walls may have been built between the thirteenth and mid-fifteenth century CE.
Second view: Patrick Darling predicted the walls of Benin (in the Esan region) may have been built during the first millennium CE.


How the walls were built
The walls were built with a ditch and dike arrangement. The ditch was bore to form an inner moat with the excavated earth used to create the exterior rampart.

Remains

The Walls of Benin were destroyed by the British in 1897 during the named Punitive expedition. Disjointed pieces of the wall remain in Edo, with a large proportion on them being used by the residents for construction purposes. The little that remains of the wall is continually demolished for real estate developments.

Fred Pearce in an article in the New Scientist (September 11th 1999) said “They extend for some 16,000km in all, in a mosaic of more than 500 interconnected settlement boundaries. They cover 2, 510 sq. miles (6, 500 square kilometres) and were all dug by the Edo people. In all, they are four times longer than the Great Wall of China, and consumed a hundred times more material than the Great Pyramid of Cheops. They took an estimated 150 million hours of digging to construct, and are perhaps the largest single archaeological phenomenon on the planet.”

An ethno mathematician named Ron Eglash explained the planned blueprint of the city using fractals at the ground level, not just in the city, also in the villages and in the rooms of houses. He stated that “When Europeans first came to Africa, they considered the architecture very disorganised and thus primitive. It never occurred to them that the Africans might have been using a form of mathematics that they hadn’t even discovered yet.”

The walls of Benin were famously described by the Guinness Book of Records (1974 edition) as being “the world’s largest earthworks prior to the mechanical era.” Also, Benin city was in the league of the first cities to have a likeness of street lighting with large metal lamps, a large number of feet high, built and placed around the city

MelesZenawi:
Nigeria is not one please.

One Nigeria is a crime to humanity.

Who would blame you after all the fighting that goes on online on daily basis.

You must have been really enjoying yourself and laughing your head off.

Funny, we still can't afford to do without each others.

You can disagree with this, but as I type this reply, there are numerous tribal intermingling, interrelationships and intermarriages ongoing producing intermixed Nigerians.

Nigerians are tangling and mixing daily with the numbers of Nigerians carrying the blood of various tribes in their veins increasing.

gregyboy:
Nice work on the summary

Please i neex the article on the oyo paying tribute to benin

I actually got it from one of Silversniper's replies


"The kingdom of Benin was so powerful that the Alafin of Oyo, the head of the Yoruba people, told a British governor that even his predecessors had to pay tribute to its king." - Asibong Akpan Okon, The evolution of self-government of Nigeria (1955), p. 36

Asibong Okon was referring to this:

"This Kingdom of Benin was at one time so powerful that the Alafin of Oyo, the head of the Yoruba people, told me that even his predecessors had to pay tribute to its King." - United Empire, Volume 2 (1911), p. 620

https://books.google.com/books?newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&id=AE45AQAAMAAJ&dq=predecessors+pay+tribute

Forgot the British governor's name (I looked through the United Empire book years ago, but didn't make any notes), but that 1911 quote is authentic.

You can make what you want out of the quote. From my own perspective, power relations in a political context are usually based on realpolitik and determined by the practical facts on the ground, not necessarily myths or legends.
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SilverSniper3:
To circumvent the banning bot, I just decided to attach some images of what I had tried to post.

Thanks for providing a copy of the actual report.

TAO11:
Quit mentioning audience and stop drawing sympathy while shedding crocodile tears.

Being the judge in your own case is precisely what you did when you quoted someone who was supposed to be left out independent --- drawing false and unwarranted alliance.

Also misrepresenting what I said in black and white --- saying I said A when I had said B --- is also being a judge in your own case, and a false judge for that matter.

At this point it has become obvious that you have nothing to present further than the already demolished bother Uchebuaku whose supposed citation has been shown to be a spurious misrepresentation.

If you have a further argument or evidence, let me know, otherwise I will start crossing out your rants if I please.

Summary of the thread so far.

1. It was generally agreed by debaters that Benin did have some form of colonial expansion into eastern Yoruba land.

2. Benin presence in Lagos as far back as 1603 was agreed by all, no dispute.

3. Oduduwa origin was heavily disputed with various accounts.

A. Oyo accounts says Oduduwa was from either the sky or mecca and the current Ooni descents from the lineage of shrine keeper. Ref. Johnson.

B. Ife account says Oduduwa was a native of Ife

C. Benin accounts says Oduduwa was a banished Benin prince, Ekaladerhan.

4. It was generally agreed that the Yorubas have not always had one history. They were various tribes that used to fight themselves, sometimes with the help of Benin army and guns.

5. The Benin/Ife connection was called into questions especially considering Ife may be younger than Benin.

6. Benin relationship with Nupe/Igala was examined.

7. No evidence was found of Benin/Ife relationship in the first four hundred years of recorded Benin history.

8. No human bones found in Orun Oba Ado site in Ife after excavation.

9. Link to Guinness book of world records showing Benin Wall to be the largest man made structure on planet earth, four times great wall of China, many times the great pyramids of Egypt was presented.

10. Benin civil war was discussed.

11. Evidence provided of Alaafin paying tribute to Benin.

12. Evidence provided of Alaafin asking Oba of Benin for army to help suppressed rebels.

13. Owo princes used to be trained at the Oba of Benin palace before they were sent back to rule over Owo.

14. Owo artworks are closely related to Benin artworks

15. In the past, Edo/Akure, Edo nekue, people roused to very prominent positions in Benin including the Iyase of Benin, second position to the Oba of Benin.

15. Benin had different relationships with various Yoruba tribes.

16. Benin have a well documented history since 1400 AD mostly in European archives that can't be fabricated.

17 Thousands of Benin artworks adores world museums acting as great ambassadors of black civilisation.

18. Current Oba of Lagos revealed during the anniversary of the coronation of the current Oba of Benin that Benin chiefs were sent to Lagos to train/help him with the traditions before ascending the Lagos throne.