₦airaland Forum

Meeloreh:
Buried by??

Kanayo O. Kanayo.

I don't think it is in way proper for them family or whoever to include that in the poster. If they have enough evidence to nail the said Monday Lawrence, then let them use the law to nail him.

Agubushmenyo:
People will jump Into this thread and post all sorts of silly things now!! But before then, let me point out instances and leave the rest for Observations!

1) Ebonyi pastor Rapes 13yrs old girl
2) Rev King burns church member
3) Lagos pastor defiles 14yrs old girl
4) Pastor sleeps with 3 girls from the same family


Now before you Include Buhari and Castigate APC and Insult muslims, let me quote Jesus Christ from another dimension....

"The Religion that is perfect, let them be the first to cast a stone"

In every religion, we have Idiots!!

But avoid the Fallacy of generalization

God Bless the President!!

Interesting. The instances you cited now, tell me, is the Christian community celebrating them or otherwise? Are they presently walking freely among us? Yerima claimed his action is encouraged by his religion. Did any of the above believe or say the same? You know there is a problem when a handful of people with common practice tow the same line. This is no Islamophobia but a revelation of the sickening practice of abduction and forceful conversion of minors. And to think that Islamic clergymen ensure these girls go through the process of conversion by making them recite whatever is enough to say a lot is wrong with the Islamic belief. Let's not even go far, it happens here on Nairaland. A forceful tag of "I believe prophet" whoever shows up on people's profile once you comment on Islamic threads. Perhaps it is a way of saying Islam as a religion is feeble. You don't force people to believe what you believe and you don't force people to worship what you worship. A lot is wrong with Islam as a religion. Just so you know, Christianity is not a religion; it's a way of life. Study Christ and act like Him. That is what it means. I love Muslims but hate the approach of Islam towards several subject matters.

adehsenior:
This counter abi, very soon men will start fighting the government, I wonder whether the DSS have now become tools for intimidating non APC law abiding Nigerians
Only God will judge our leaders.

You know, it wouldn't kill you if you read the piece. You should have read the article before lashing the APC and Buhari. The DSS then was viciously used a weapon of intimidation. The man in question is an ex-Buhari campaigner. I sincerely hope you understand the summary now.

zainabxel:
you are just too dumb, pastors caught defiling monors are either beaten by mobs or arrested, wheras abduction and forceful convertion is legal in the north and backed by the sharia courts, how you malos compare things is unbelievable, so they should let the ab0ki pedophiles be because girls are raped in the south, oya go to the south and rape a minor and see what becomes of you, bloody waste of education

He is indeed. I'm beginning to understand why these people loathe Western education.

A7:
Position of Islam on copulation is both parties must be legally married, the female must hit puberty, and must give her consent and if she is under the care of any guardian, that guardian has to bless the union. And premarital sex or adultery have no room in Islam.

When you say you condemn criminality down south I find that very difficult to believe, Ese's case is blown out of proportion because there are certain set of people in this country with fixated position to always smear others with different cultural, religious or political ideals from theirs.

You utterances will be much appreciated if you bombard the social media, and the press condemning the heinous attrocities perpetrated by your religious figures and other like minded vagabonds you use to shield and embrace with open arms. Till then, your words will continue to not hold water, just like in your mind you know what you wrote is false, people will equally discard it as false.

So you will call a forceful marriage of an aged man with that of a 13 year old girl child legal? You mean to tell us that such a girl has hit puberty It sickens me to the stomach to hear of these acts. Why abduct and convert them? Islam is a dying religion. Boko Haram is not just some random terrorist group but an vocal group perpetrating the will of Muhammed and Allah; rape, maim, steal and destroy what does not belong to your fold. I believe there is a particular message as this in the Koran. It's quite unfortunate that the sane ones with little or no violence are very few. Only Mad Men would mate with underage girls.

poik:
Some of your points are valid, but my excitement ebbed when you mentioned marriage and tithing.
How can you say Christ will not be happy with church marriage, when He said in all you do, do in the name of Jesus Christ (Col. 3:17)? where else would that happen, save for the church and by an officiating minister?

About tithing.
For your information, tithing is NOT an Old Testament commandment.
The first person who paid tithes was Abraham, and he was not a Jew. Rather his offspring formed the Jewish root. Again, he did it out of conscience, and not of compulsion. it was because men did not do it willingly that God made it a law in the Levitical days.
Check people who do not pay tithes. Gods word cannot lie. there is one way or the other that same amount is taken from them. do so carefully and conscientiously. the devourers God promised in Malachi 3 WILL NOT go unless that commandment is obeyed. God is not our mate.

Did Christ say that word in Col 3:17 or just one of the Apostles? I could as well fornicate and get away with it as long as I do it in the name of Christ, is that correct? Perhaps I could bow to a graven image and do it in the name of Christ and truly believe I have not erred in the commandment concerning not bowing to idols. That passage is misguided and some of the Apostles who championed the New Testament have in a way contributed to many ills being practiced in Christianity today (this is definitely a discussion for another time). Let's look at it this way;

1. I know we operate Grace now as opposed to the Law during the time of Moses, but what if the Temple was so fearful just like back then when the priests would run the edges of their skirts with dangling bells before going into the Most Holy Chamber of God, knowing fully well they could drop dead at any time and the bells were the only signal they have to show those outside waiting to know if they were still alive or dead. Would anyone today say it is that sacred and feared Temple if God he or she wants to feast and make merry under the guise of a church wedding?

2. Christ chased traders out of the Temple in the New Testament simply because they abused the place of worship and chose to make it a bargaining ground of all sorts. What is the significance of the story? Simple, just like those traders whom Christ beat and chased out, anyone who uses the Temple or church beyond prayer, worship and teachings of the
Word of God has not only violated it but also abused it, just those traders did. Worst of all, Christ mentioned the manner and way in which a union is to be established in Matt 19:4 , which is exactly the same as God's in Genesis 2:24

1. Old Testament: Gen 2:24
2. New Testament: Matt 19:4
Is the church mentioned or instructed to play a role? No! Did the priests and prophets play any roles concerning marriage? No! Why then is the church concerned about this particular ritual when it's origin is in any way Biblical.

NB: Abraham was not the first to pay tithe. What he paid was a tribute: an entitlement to a king who was also a priest at the same time. He did not pay it to God. Please refer to the first page. We have talked about this extensively there.

Peritus:
Bro Sanchez01, as regards church marriage, I must say that it isn't wrong. It was never condemned in the Bible.. It is as good as traditional celebration of marriage or court marriage. However, not doing church celebration of marriage does not make it spiritually invalid as some churches see it, neither is the celebration wrong as you alluded.

I agree with the latter part of your submission. However we need to look at some things critically to drive home our point. Adultery was not condemned by Christ when a woman who was caught in the act was brought forth. He didn't condemn her like everyone wanted Him to. Is that enough justification to say adultery is not a sin because Christ didn't condemn it? Obviously NO! Church marriage has no Biblical foundation or whatsoever, it was not preached, admonished, encouraged or supported in any way. As a matter of fact, we would not be at peace should God judge us with the standard of the Old Israel. The temple (church) is sacred and should be treated as such. Not for merry making or whatever.

You would agree with me that the first man and woman were not privileged to marry in the proper way, regardless, all those who married afterwards, from Isaac, down to Hosea, a prophet of God, how many of them took the wedding rites to the temple? Even in the NT, nothing was said concerning it, yet our spiritual leaders take time out to preach church wedding as if that is why God called them. Church wedding has no spiritual significance. The principles for weddings and marriage are well captured in the Scripture.

On a final note, Church wedding rite and the traditional wedding rite are not on the same level. The traditional rite of presenting gifts to the bride-to-be's parents and the the bride herself is fully supported by the Scripture, and this practice continued from the Old Testament to the New and even to this present day. The so-called church wedding has no root in the Scriptures. How then is it as good as the traditional wedding?

onyekaegbo:
Na wa o... To be candid, my eyes opened as I read through this. I don't even know what to say. Sanchez, this is so on point.

Lalasticlala please come and put this where it belongs to help Christians.

Funny, it can be difficult to deal with. It is not really easy dispelling what you've been taught and trained with since childhood, but then again, if it is not preached by Christ, then it should be done away with.

ojoyentalk:
Tithing started with Abraham Jacob continued it Jesus commended it

Please provide Bible passages from the Scripture to prove this.

olapluto:
A 17 year old girl elopes with her 18 yr old boyfriend, and it becomes big news. I understand that it may be considered shameful that a pastor's daughter is in lover with an 'aboki'- albeit a well known face.
If she did it for love, then she is better than the vulnerable girls in baby factories. She is even better than those ladies who served rev. king.

Having a sexual relationship with a 17 year old girl is called abuse in Nigeria, even if the sickheads in the North go as low as 12 and 13. Try dating one and walk up to the law that you're both in love and see what happens next.

aresa:
[s][/s]



Your rubbish doesn't change the girls assertions...

****I must confess. Why are you trying hard so hard to justify what is a crime in the real sense of it. Irrespective of whatever she says, she is a minor, incapable of making independent decisions, according to the law and yet you foolishly post a link of a brainwashed little girl whose formatting had been completed since last year. What is wrong with you??

Power Rangers plant

uduokirika1:
The crime is not about returning the girl! But it seems nobody has accusd d young man for abducting the minor!

Even the so called letter from the Emir is shrewed with hypocrisy, a girl kidnapped and forced to convert to Islam and the Emir of kano subtly accepts the new order.

Who changes a little girls name from Ese Ovoru to Aisha Awual without parental consent.

Nigeria police should not only arrest the kidnapper but the Emir of Kano for being an accomplice

It tells a lot about what happens in Nigeria. No one is talking about arresting the stupid_ paedophile, but returning the girl. The Sharia system is for warped minds. Who kidnaps and marries a girl, a minor for that matter, and the Police Force is not battling an eyelash? Shouldn't this Hausa man be arraigned for paedophilia and kidnapping which are both punishable under the Nigerian constitution? Abduction has now become a legal thing that has seen the exchange of letters through hands just so a kidnapped girl could be released from his abductor. Our legal system is a joke. The Northerner on the road begging for alms has immunity over crimes than an average middle class civil servant.

It is Arik!

sonofthunder:
maybe Abraham only sacrificed to and sought thin air.

I'm amazed. I should have known you're one of the tough dogmatic Christians I referred to. Bye.

sonofthunder:
so you do not believe that Abraham's tithe was to God?

Did the Bible mention that he tithed to God or to Melchizedek as seen in Gen 14:20? Please answer honestly without trying to twist the Scriptures.

sonofthunder:
Abraham worshipped a God that he knew and had faith in... gen 12:8 and gen 13:4.
also when Abraham offered sacrifices unto God, was it because God was hungry and needed food? or why? because I'm terribly shocked by your assertion of Abraham not knowing God to the level of worship.

I marvel. If Abraham had known God very well like you claim, how come Gen 17:1 does not precede Gen 12:8 and 13:4

sonofthunder:
so the Israelites were tithing to Eli and co?
age is not a factor in serving God, there's no segregation.
the priest that Abraham tithed to, is he a priest of Baal or of the Most High God?

Where did I mention such? Abraham tithed to a King who doubled as priest. I mentioned Jacob is the first man to tithe and I supplied a reference. You made a comment that Tithing had been before Jacob. With your new question, are you implying that there was Israel before Jacob himself? To your second question, do you tithe to your pastor or to God? Please respond and answer your question yourself.

sonofthunder:
Tithing took place before Jacob and is still on...

It started with Jacob. Abraham didn't really know God to the level of worship until he was 99 years old (Genesis 17:1). The said tithe he paid was to a king who doubled as a priest and it was never to God. I'd love it if you can share why you think the tithing practice is not archaic and exclusive to the then Israel.

akaahs:
You shall not bow down to them or serve them (Ex. 20:45); Alas, this people have sinned a great sin; they have made for themselves gods of gold(Ex.32:31). It is right to warn people against the sin of idolatry when they are committing it. But calling other Christians most especially Catholics idolaters because they have images of Christ and Saints is based on misunderstanding or ignorance of what the Bible says about the purpose and uses (both good and bad) of statues. God forbade the workship of statues, but he did not forbid the religious use of statues. Instead, he actually commanded their use in religious contexts!
In Ex. 25:18-22; 26:1; 31, for example, God commands the making of image of golden chorus. This heavenly image, of of course, is not worshiped by the Israelites. Instead, the image dispose their minds to the supernatural and draws them to God. God also command the making of broze serpent. One had to look at the broze statue of the serpent to be heale, which shows that statues could be used ritually, not merely as religious decoration s. The image of the bronze serpent is not an idol to be worshiped, but an article that lifts the mind of the supernatural (Num.21:. Solomon s temple contains statues of cherubium and images that were used in worship(1 Kings 6:23-36;7:27-39;8:6-67). it was only when the people began to worship the statuein 2 Kings 18:4 that they did incur Gods wrath, and the King destroyed it. The command prohibiting the use of graven images deals exclusively with the false worship of those images. The only image of God that Catholics worship is Jesus Christ, who is the "image" (Greek "eikon" of the invisible God (col.1:15).
God's commandment in Deu.5:8- "thou shall not make a graven image'' is entirely connected to the worship of false gods. God does not prohibit images to be worship, but He prohibits the images themselves to be workshiped as idols. Christions, especially Catholics use images in worship and devotions; we do not use ''idols''. The different lies in what we believe about them. An ''idol'' is something made that is not simply used in worship, but itself is the object of worship. Sacrifices and obligations are offered to idols, since sacrificed is the root of any true worship. An image is something that is used in worship, but is not itself the object of worship. Sacrifices and oblation are not offered to images.
I hope these write up 'll enlighten our Protestants brethren. I 'll be posting on the issue about Why do catholics venerate the virgin Mary, the issue of Tithe, How we got Chrismas, Christmas Tree and Santa Claus.

Oh! So you're saying that the worship and honour of statues is allowed simply because of that of the Golden calf? You already countered yourself with this;

In Ex. 25:18-22; 26:1; 31, for example, God commands the making of image of golden chorus. This heavenly image, of of course, is not worshiped by the Israelites. Instead, the image dispose their minds to the supernatural and draws them to God. God also command the making of broze serpent. One had to look at the broze statue of the serpent to be heale, which shows that statues could be used ritually, not merely as religious decoration s. The image of the bronze serpent is not an idol to be worshiped, but an article that lifts the mind of the supernatural (Num.21: . Solomon s temple contains statues of cherubium and images that were used in worship(1 Kings 6:23-36;7:27-39;8:6-67). it was only when the people began to worship the statuein 2 Kings 18:4 that they did incur Gods wrath, and the King destroyed it.

You have clearly saved me the trouble of what I needed to clear. By the way, I wasn't particularly referring to the Catholic Church, but since you feel they champion the course in statues and worship of these objects, then it is good you pointed it out. Perhaps they don't worship statues but do they bow down to them? A polar question is asked here and a simple yes/no would suffice.

ryom:
Except the tithe: Tithe is still relevant relevant, which is why Jesus said do it but more importantly do justice, mercy and faithfulness. Matt23:23, LK 11:42.
Wedding in church neither right nor wrong but tradition. In many places people don't marry in church anymore but you must have someone in authority and a few people as witnesses, and of course parental consent. So also wedding/engagement rings, these are not scripture but not necessarily wrong. So you can marry in court, by the beach, in your sitting room etc.

Christmas is tradition dating from Constantine. It is neither right nor wrong to choose a date to celebrate the birthday of Jesus. Whether it is right or wrong to do it on a day that previously was a pagan celebration is up for debate, but you not required to do it in Scriptures. The main New Testament ordinances are Holy Communion and Water Baptism.

There are a lot of traditions that get incorporated into faith practice locally. The important thing is to know what is scripture and what is not. What is scripture you are obligated to do, what is not, you're not. Trouble is, many people don't read their Bibles.

The same passages you gave as references to tithe is the same someone gave me just almost two weeks ago. Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought you to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Was Christ teaching about tithe? No, He was highlighting the hypocritical nature of the Pharisees and Scribes who carry out the Mosaic Law thinking they are better than others when in reality they are not. Please re-read the passage to understand what Christ meant.

winner01:
If another date was chosen. Skeptics will still find a god to attribute it to. We have 365 days and there about 5000+ gods.
Personally, i see nothing wrong in celebrating Jesus anyday. He owns all days.

I have tried justifying it too. Why do you think Christians say "He is the reason for the season"? Some have come to know but still fight it. Emperor Constantine of the then Roman Empire who was partly Christian and partly Pagan then just so he could keep everyone together fused the celebration of Christ + that of Mars, a Roman god together to realize the celebration of December 25 today.

ammyluv2002:
You nailed it! I'm so happy with this post.....you've made my day already.

Seriously, i think we need to stop chasing shadows and stop this craziness, but sadly some Christians are so blind

Lol. Most can't see it. The height of dogma is just too much. Most churches have done too much damages that only Christ can restore to factory setting.

orisa37:
We understand The Nature of God more than others. It's God we all Worship, no nothing else and these ceremonial unctions are authorized and approved by the only God we all worship. Happy Sunday!!!!

True, we understand the nature of God more than each other and THINK or BELIEVE we worship the same God. A pastor cannot commit adultery with a member of his church and then comes to the altar without remorse to preach on forgiveness. Such a person stopped serving God the moment he lost his sense of remorse. Just like law, ignorance is not an excuse. In the Christian race, no one will tell God he his condemned because he didn't know that bowing to the statue of Jesus or Mary is idolatry.

Please note: These so-called ceremonial unctions are not the works of God. Rather, they are the works of manipulative, selfish and self serving men who claim they are pastors. Jesus is the yardstick for which every man and woman, including Pastors, should measure themselves with. If anyone falls short, such a person should pray, but should never use manipulations and formatting as an excuse to unctions given to them by God.

GrammarNazi:
It gladdens my heart whenever I come across posts like this; it shows we still have youths that think for themselves rather swallow religious doctrines "hook, line & sinker".

Every point you have raised is true, but I've got one more to add (actually, I've got more than one, but I'd only give one for now and save the others for later).

In Matthew 23:9, Jesus said “And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and He is in heaven". Obviously, we know he wasn't referring to our biological fathers here.

But what do we have today? Starting with Roman Catholics calling their priests 'Rev Fathers', we move on to pentecostals with titles like 'Daddy G.O.' 'Papa this' and 'Papa that'. When you ask why, they say these guys are their "spiritual fathers"
If your pastor is your spiritual father, then God is what? Your biological father?

I couldn't agree more.

Advans:
there is nothing bad in choosing a date to celebrate birth but if u go down history lane, u will realize dt Dec 25 is a special day in Rome for celebrating an idol called MARS. D early Christians joined dem in d celebration and associate it wt d birth of Christ. Hence they formed CHRISTMAS frm christ-mars. Jst as d current Christians try to lured ppl into Christianity by advertising solution to hunger, poverty, barrenness e.t.c

You simply took the word from me. Thanks!

Lalasticlala, let me call you again

malvisguy212:
Sanchez01 it been long I read your post.

I took a deliberate sabbatical from the section. Perhaps I'll have more reasons to visit and post comments and topics now.

thesicilian:
But the new testament views on tithing are issues of continuing research to me, one would think that for such an important issue as tithing (as our pastors make it out to be), the New Testament Bible would be pretty clear on its stand but this is not the case

Trust me, you'll find nothing. I have read almost all commentaries concerning the NT and tithing but found nothing. Most pastors live for tithes. While their strong point for driving home the message is Malachi 3:8-10, which is in the OT, nothing spilled into the NT concerning this practice. As Christians, if we are in the world and not of this world as the Scripture makes us understand, why then did God in flesh (Christ) lay the example of tax paying to an earthly government but never tithe paying to the Kingdom of heaven? It was an exclusive practice to the then Israel which was meant to feed the Levites. See this:

8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. 9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. 10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. - Malachi 3:8-10

Did you notice the word "this whole nation"? Why? Because those who refused to pay tithe then refuse to feed the Levites who have no inheritance in the land. Then notice the second bolded, "the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house". Who eat these meats? Why is there a storage to receive these goods in the Temple? I hope you understand this.

thesicilian:
On the issue of tithes, a lot of people might disagree with you as you have already anticipated.
First tithing did not begin with Jacob, it began with Abraham, when he gave tithes to Melchizedek the priest of the Most High. (Genesis 14:20)

We cannot call that the standard one tenth as commanded by God. Why? Because tithes are never meant to be given to given to priests and kings, which Melchizedek doubled as. As a king, it was more of a tribute. Abraham, at every turn acknowledged he was a stranger in every land he found himself in, despite being promised to be the one to inherit the earth through his offspring. Tithes are never to man but to God.

thesicilian:
On the issue of tithes, a lot of people might disagree with you as you have already anticipated

True, and that is because a lot of people will not just change their minds on what they have been taught from childhood till date. Again to hammer on it, why didn't Christ demonstrate it when He was able to pay tax to Caesar's government? He taught us to pray, to forgive, to give, to intercede for others and even to give towards the work of God, but never made a single teaching on tithing? As big as the New Testament is, there is not a single teaching on tithing. What does this tell us? Unfortunately, some pastors realize this but they will never preach it because it;s like preaching their very own death.

Even the concept of paying tithe in the Old Testament made it known that the Levites, the tribe from Levi are to eat and feast from the people's tithes because God commanded them not to have a land like in the inheritance of Israel every other tribe had. They had no lands, they did not farm and they did not rear cattles. So if the Levites had access to the tithes based on God's instruction, why then did Christ not preach about it in the new phase? Simple, because there are no Levites in our midst again. The Pastor who has a full time job has turned himself to a Levite despite his many landed properties and cars. He cannot preach the truth in this regard because that is his primary source of income.

malvisguy212:
@. I agree with everything you said except christmas, the day of christ birth may be unknown, but First, a person who was born on February 29 (leap year) only celebrate his birthday after 4 years, is it sinful to chose another day to celebrate it ? Or if your birthday fall on saturday (saturn) will you celebrate it ? In 1 corinthians 8 paul is saying we should not in anyway aknowlegde this pagan gods exist.

Everyone loves Christmas. I love it. But the big question is why December 25, the same as the celebration date of a Roman god? Christianity adopted a pagan practice here. Please ignore Paul's assertion. Were there Pagan practices in the Old Testament? Yes? And most of them corrupted the then Israel. Saul and Solomon are too few examples of people pagan practices corrupted. The big problem is here is Constantine, the then Roman Emperor who merged Pagan practices with Christian ways. Everybody loves Christmas, we celebrate Christ, perhaps, but is the day really the birth day of Christ? No!