₦airaland Forum

That is why you have a Bible to cross check with.

Op, Jesus in John 16:12 said He had many things to say but the disciples could not bear them then and said the Holy Ghost would reveal same when He comes and these are found in the Epistles. Disregarding those Epistles is disregarding Jesus Himself dont you think?

12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

promise101:
I will!

But I somewhere, when I am back!

I will define it.

No problem.
Dont forget to quote any post of mine that is an apt sample of that definition

promise101:
1peter 4:15-18
15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.
16 Yet if any man suffer AS A CHRISTIAN(persecution) let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that BELIEVE(obey) not the gospel of God(Jesus- grace)?
18 And if the righteous barely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the wicked appear?

Peter was saying that
if the judgement of God begins with US, what will be the fate of THEM, who obey(believe) NOT the gospel of Jesus.

The "US" in the context, is not talking about(people who pretend to be sinless because they live rightly, absolutely NO!), the "US" there are people who BELIEVE(faith) in the Gospel of Jesus.

The people he was referring as "THEM", are not among the people he was referring as "US" but are the people who BELIEVE NOT the gospel.

And their unbelief is a disobedience to the gospel.

The judgement of God on sinners will be towards SIN. Why? Because they believed not on the gospel that justifies them.

But the Judgement of God over believers is entirely different from that of sinners.

The judgement of God over believers is not for imperfections, because our sins and imperfections, HAVE BEEN JUDGED ON JESUS AT THE CROSS, and JESUS ENTIRELY AND WILLFULLY TOOK THE PENALTY OF GOD'S JUDGEMENT OVER OUR SINS UPON HIMSELF.

So God CANNOT JUDGE US of the SINS CHRIST WAS JUDGE AND CONDEMNED TO DEATH FOR, for the sake of christ's blood that was shed and himself being a God of Justice.

If God should PASS JUDGEMENT ON A SIN TWICE, is that not INJUSTICE?

If God should judge us for the sins, he judged christ for, then it simply means that christ's death is in vain and of NO effect. And it simply shows that christ was NOT SACRIFIED FOR OUR SINS but MURDERED FOR NOTHING. But GOD FORBID, that it had happened.


Then what is the Judgement of God over believers?

Corinthians 3:13-15 (KJV)
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: BUT HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED; yet so as by fire .


Our works of faith is what is judged, FOR A REWARD- crown of life and NOT FOR ETERNAL LIFE. Because eternal life is a gift for anyone who BELIEVES iN JESUS. And when our works is burned (of no value, bad or rotten), we shall suffer loss, BUT HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED.

Why will he suffer loss? Because his works are of no value, he laboured not abundantly, not for PURPOSE OF MAKING HEAVEN(eternal life) but for making use of the grace of God on him in touching lives and achieving things that he is supposed to achieve.


How will he suffer loss?
He shall NOT suffer loss of eternal life, because his eternal life is a gift that is not of works but of FAITH. No one is given eternal life because of right living and at the same time no one shall suffer loss of eternal life because of imperfection.


Then what shall he suffer loss?
Remember, what the verse 14 says;" If any man's work ABIDE which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a REWARD."
So any man whose work ABIDES, shall receive a REWARD. Eternal life? No, it is a gift for all believers! Crown of life? Yes, it is a reward for LABOURER OF FAITH(not people who pretend to be sinless, because of right living).

So any man whose work ABIDES NOT, SHALL SUFFER LOSS OF HIS REWARD- the crown of life. And because, he is given the free gift of eternal life on the basis of faith, HE SHALL BE SAVED, verse 15 says;"If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: BUT HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED; yet so as by fire ."
HE SHALL BE SAVED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Now see verse 18; "And if the righteous(believers) BARELY(with no works) be saved, where shall the UNGODLY and the wicked appear?"

Even at that, peter knew that we were BARELY saved(out of nothing and with no works). Then he asked; "WHERE SHALL THE UNGODLY AND THE WICKED APPEAR?"

One is not wicked before God, because one lives imperfectly, but because he has NOT BELIEVED in the gospel that FORGIVES and JUSTIFIES his imperfection, and thereby making his imperfections to be IMPUTED ON HIM OUT OF HIS UNBELIEF. So bad!

We are NO MORE ungodly and wicked before God, because we WERE FORGIVEN and JUSTIFIED, not for the sake of our right living but for CHRIST'S SAKE. Therefore we owe NO DEBT of our imperfections.

Rom 4:5; "But to him that WORKETH NOT(strive not to live according to the law), but BELIEVETH(have faith alone) on him that JUSTIFIETH THE UNGODLY, HIS FAITH(not right living/law keeping) IS COUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS."

Jesus is the one that JUSTIFIES THE UNGODLY!

Define legalism and show ONE post of mine that agrees there to

4:7For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.
4:8[b]He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.[/b]
1 Thess 4:7,8

1:5Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
1 Peter 1:5
kept not against our will, the time comes when He asks,''will ye also go away''.
We are not only saved but also kept by the Power of God through faith meaning we have the role to play in being steadfast in the faith and we will be kept from sin as sure as God withheld Abimelech from sinning against Him!

THE MAKING OF A NEO-NICOLAITAN:

He was once saved but had issues with some besetting sins. Initially, as described in Romans 7, he desired deliverance therefrom because he realized it had no place in the life of a saint. Unfortunately, he continued indulging and his conscience began to get silent till he finally seared it with a hot iron. He then twists certain scriptures to suit his new status (false teachers that help him in this regard are never in short supply) and ignore other Bible passages that condemn sin in the lives of those who say they are saved.

Any one that reminds him of these verses is tagged a pharisee!
They claim to have peace but it is not that from the Spirit but the absence of warnings from a silenced conscience!
Many shall say ...in thy Name have done MANY wonderful works, but I will say I never knew you, DEPART from Me ye that work iniquity.

15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer or a thief or any sort of criminal, or as a mischief-maker (a meddler) in the affairs of others [infringing on their rights].
16 But if [one is ill-treated and suffers] as a Christian [which he is contemptuously called], let him not be ashamed, but give glory to God that he is [deemed worthy to suffer] in this name.
17 For the time [has arrived] for judgment to begin with the household of God; and if it begins with us, what will [be] the end of those who do not respect or believe or obey the good news (the Gospel) of God?
18 And if the righteous are barely saved, what will become of the godless and wicked?

1 Peter 4:15-18

johnw74:
We are saved by God's grace, through faith, not by our works.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Once saved by God we do good works, not to be saved but because we were created to do good works.

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

A saved person is becoming like Christ and would give clothing and food, one without God's grace might just wish them well.

Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

If you are saved, you will have good works, not to be saved, but because you are saved (eph 2:10).

Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

The devils have faith-belief but they are not saved, God's works are not done in them.

Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

We are not saved by faith, we are saved by God's grace through faith, a person having no works accompanying his belief is not a saved person, having a dead faith.
The works are God's and may be no more than the changes He does in us, becoming more like Christ day by day.

Php 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

We are saved by grace through faith. That faith is not just faith-belief as the devils have, but it is faith-belief with works, the works of God in us, bringing us to Christ likeness.

2Co 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

There is a living faith, where you live that faith, it is the faith that the saved have.
And there is a dead faith, where you don't have to live according to that faith, those with that faith are not among the saved.


Those who say things like: "once saved you can do anything at all, ignore the Holy Spirit, live a life of sin etc. etc. and still be saved", are wrong, the unsaved can live that way.

Very true!!!

vooks:
Scholar8200,
Do you sin?

The Lord be magnified! After many wrong accusations and calling me a pharisee, need I answer? NO! Why? Wisdom tells me your conclusion is already cast in bold relief and any answer will be used for purposes contrary to the purpose of the Thread!


(Though you multiply this question a thousand times, sir, forget an answer; in any case you can go ahead with whatever you like to say!)

A thread on Grace was with expectation that words posted (by those who have met grace) should at least be with grace but it has been the other way round!

Now thanks be to God for His unspeakable Gift!

He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.'

Revelation 22:11,12

When we were not yet reconciled to God our lives were characterised by wicked works (Colossians 1:21) but after we are reconciled to God by faith in Christ, there is a transformation and that also shows by a life zealous of good works Titus 2:11-14.

Besides, let us remember this:

6 No one who abides in Him [who lives and remains [e]in communion with and in obedience to Him—deliberately, knowingly, and [f]habitually] commits (practices) sin. No one who [habitually] sins has either seen or known Him [recognized, perceived, or understood Him, or has had an experiential acquaintance with Him].

7 [g]Boys (lads), [size=14pt]let no one deceive and lead you astray. He who practices righteousness [who is upright, conforming to the divine will in purpose, thought, and action, living a consistently conscientious life] is righteous, even as He is righteous
[/size].
8 [But] he who commits sin [who practices evildoing] is of the devil [takes his character from the evil one], for the devil has sinned (violated the divine law) from the beginning. The reason the Son of God was made manifest (visible) was to undo (destroy, loosen, and dissolve) the works the devil [has done].

9 No one born (begotten) of God [deliberately, knowingly, and [h]habitually] practices sin, for God’s nature abides in him... and he cannot practice sinning because he is born (begotten) of God.

1John 3:6-9 (AMP)

It transcends forgiveness to being made a partaker of His Nature. There is a walking in The Spirit , abiding in Him that brings forth the fruit of righteousness and holiness.(not struggling, just abide in Him , in vital union)

If we dont abide, we will be fruitless and in spite of much professions will be cast off:


5 I am the Vine; you are the branches. Whoever lives in Me and I in him bears much (abundant) fruit. However, apart from Me [cut off from vital union with Me] you can do nothing.
6 If a person does not dwell in Me, he is thrown out like a [broken-off] branch, and withers; such branches are gathered up and thrown into the fire, and they are burned.
John 15:5,6

How do I know if I am not abiding? When my faith has no Fruit!

vooks:
With or without this thread or any other, we are all responsible for out actions. If this is a subtle way of discouraging others from challenging heresies, Legalism and Pharaiseeism, you gonna have to try harder

Alright.

For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?
1 Corinth 4:7

If a poor man claims to receive a Gift of $1m and still comes begging tomorrow we know he is lying! If a sinner says he is saved by Grace and CONTINUES in sin, he is a liar! It is a Received Life, not the fruit of self-effort. However, when it is received, it manifests!

The holiness of life made possible by Grace is such that we, by the Indwelling Spirit, shine as lights but we know that this Life is not of ourselves, it is a Treasure in Earthen vessel that we can only be grateful for; no room for conceitedness!

Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Matthew 25:43-46


For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
Galatians 5:6

Folks would wish the Spirit did not Inspire those last three words!


The Sheep had faith that worked by love,(the Spirit through their faith in Jesus regenerated, renewed and transformed them producing the Fruit of Love) the Goats thought they had faith (more like mental assent with no inner transformation with perhaps a lot of claims) but it was dead hence it did not work!

Where do you stand!

This is an open thread, however, every one will be responsible for his posts before God.

rexben:
Jesus was sent to this world by His Father to come and bring His kingdon on earth. That is why He inconcated it in the Lord's prayer. He came to deliver hostages from the devil by choosing and living as an example. Many people stil pray that LET HIS KINGDOM COME. For the kingdom of God has already come. How do i know,?

Matt 26:29,Mark 14:25,Luke 22:18. For i tell you that from now on I will not drik of the fruit of the VINE until the kingdom of God comes
Luke 23:36,Mark 15:23&36,Matt 27:48. According to account of Mark,they gave Him a sour wine at first He did not take it but after He shouted eli eli lema.......,they offered Him another and He took.
So He took the fruit of VINE on the cross before He breathed His last breath.
As at when He was taking the fruit of VINE,He was taking it in the kingdom according to His word. THE KINGDOM HAS ALREADY COME

You remind me of those men in Paul's time that also claimed that the resurrection is past! Read and discern, do we inherit that which is already in our possession?

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Matthew 25:34

rexben:
Jesus using the word FATHER in Matt 10:35-37. Ascribing the word father to men is to explain the information that He was trying pass across. Did you know Jesus picks things of the word for examples. He should the word sheep for his disciples,He called Himself a tree(vine) and His disciples branches. I tell you if there was another word to replace father in that context JESUS will have used it.

WRONG! You can say similar thing for Exodus 20:12! That God was short of vocabulary??!

John 3:16. GOD sent His son to the world not to die for sins of the world but to deliver the world(captives or hostages) ftom the devil(captor or kidnapper) and to show us the way back God.

That is why we have 66 books not 4

But he was wounded for our transgressions,
he was bruised for our iniquities:
the chastisement of our peace was upon him;
and with his stripes we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray;
we have turned every one to his own way;
and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all
Isaiah 53:5,6

Sir,sacrifice is different from ransome.
RANSOME This is the payment paid to release or free the hostages or captives. Jesus life was a ransome. He laid His life for His sheep as the good shepherd
SACRIFICE The act of offering something to a God to propitate it.

Jesus' death served both purpose and others.

Paul said that chooses the person to have mercy on. No,it is a liee
Jesus said inorder to recieve or obtain mercy from God you need to be merciful too

Paul quoted from Exodus 33:19 so was Moses or his Inspirer lying?

rexben:
You said honour your father and mother ....... Did you know Jesus defined who His family are? He never called Joseph his father,he never called Mary his mother neither did He call Mary's children His brothers and sisters. He clearly showed wh His family are. Matt 23:9 God is His father, Mark 3:3-35 for whoever does the will of God is my brother and sister and mother. So as His disciple,God is my father and mother,those that do the will of my father is my family.

Who were these:

He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
Matthew 10:37

Why will He use this terms if we were not to use them for our parents?

John 3:1-8 Jesus was briefing Nicodemus some kingdom things. He said to be born again is to be born by the Spirit. It means you are born the second time. And this time, it is not a physical birth but a spiritual one. Your physical birth,you were given birth by your biological parents and your siblings are your parents children. But when you are born again everything changes completely. God is now your father and mother,because you are begotten by Him and God's other children are your siblings

And does that not show that it is not just by speech like you tried to make us believe?

rexben:
I know what the problem is, you have revere Paul to a very high state and you cant imagine him to be wrong because he form the basis of your belief.
I plead with you to make Jesus the basis of your belief and not Paul the stranger

That's your assumption which is not correct.

lodscott:
who made David number isreal?

<< 2 Samuel 24 >> (King James Version)
1 And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.



<< 1 Chronicles 21 >> (King James Version)
1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

God's anger was not kindled for nothing. A trespass had been committed, the hedge had been broken and the serpent , not without God's permission, struck.


He that diggeth a pit shall fall into it;
and whoso breaketh an hedge, a serpent shall bite him
Ecclesiastes 10:8

Remember that satan complained about this protective hedge around Job and he could only assault the latter when God gave him leave.

rexben:
Even John the beloved contradicted Jesus
John - 3John 1:4 I have no greater joy than this:to hear that MY CHILDREN are living according to the truth
Jesus - Matthew 23:9 And call no one your FATHER on earth,for you have one Father who is in heaven
Nobody on earth can be called father,not even your biological father

Will Jesus contradict the Word? NO.

Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.
Exodus 20:12

For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
36 And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household.
37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
Matthew 10:35-37

So, go learn the context in which Christ spoke!

It seems someone like you will catch the next flight to Jerusalem because Jesus said tarry in Jerusalem until ye be endued with power from on high Luke 24:49 Not only that you will remain there to commence the great commission- from Jerusalem unto Judea!

With all thy getting get understanding!

rexben:
ON BEIGN SAVED
Paul- Rom 5:9 since therefore,we are now justified by his blood,much more shall we be saved by Him from the wrath of God
Jesus-Matt 12:37 for by your words you will be justified and by your words you will be condemned

Jesus also said :
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life
John 3:16
Did Paul contradict that? NO Besides, who and what event did Jesus say Matthew 12:37? Did He repeat same to Nichodemus? that his speech will determine his salvation? Was Christ's declaration not a commentary on

Proverbs 10:19
In the multitude of words there wanteth not sin:
but he that refraineth his lips is wise.

ON DYING
Paul-1 cor15:31 i protest brethren by my pride in you which i have in Christ Jesus our Lord,i die daily
Jesus- John 11:26 and whoever lives and believes in me shall never die

The same Jesus said to one of the churches in Revelations 2:10, that they may be killed as martyrs

Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
Revelations 2:10

Besides, Paul was not speaking of Physical death rather it was another way of referring the daily life of crucifying the flesh:

For we which live are[b] alway delivered unto death for Jesus’ sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh[/b]
2 Corinth 4:11

ON SACRIFICES TO GOD
Paul- 1cor 5:7 for Christ,our paschal lamb,has been sacrificed
Jesus-Matt?
Self acclaimed Apostle Paul was always contradicting Jesus

Why did you not say how Paul's statement contradicted Jesus? Did Jesus Himself not say:

even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
Matthew 20:28

rexben:
ON THE TIME OF THE COMING OF THE LORD
Paul -Rom 13:12 the night is far gone,the day is at hand
Jesus-Luke 21:8 take heed that you are not led astray,for many will come in my name saying,I am he The time is at hand. Do not go after them

So? Did Jesus not say behold I come quickly?

ON WHOM GOD HAS MERCY
Paul-Rom 15-18. '18 so then has mercy upon whomever he wills,.......
Jesus-Matt 5:7 Blessed are the merciful,for they shall mercy

What contradiction is here? These verses are shorn of their contexts!

ON FORGIVENESS OF TRESPASSES
Paul-Eph 1:7 In him we have redemption through his blood,the forgiveness of our trespasses,......
Jesus-Matt 6:14-15 For if you forgive men their trespasses your heavenly Faher also will forgive you,......

Jesus said:
for this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Matthew 26:28


Does Paul contradict that?NO

Were these highly religious nations (as regards the Christian ones) so from the start? NO. Either they were steeped in idolatry or demon worship. After centuries in darkness and the concomittant evils that span generations, the citizens, realizing the folly they inherited are turning to God but reversing the evil effects of centuries of demon worship will not take place in one day.

Besides, not every body among them who turns to God does so sincerely! For many, it could be said thus that:

33 They feared the Lord, and served their own gods, after the manner of the nations whom they carried away from thence.
2 Kings 17:33

Hence it wont be right to blame their poverty on that which they turned to but on that which they turned from and the depth of sincerity of their turning!

rexben:
I am sorry i cant pick the quran to read. I believe in the words of Jesus as accounted by the gospel(matthew,mark,luke and john). This source is okay and reliable for me any one that wants to know God and follow Jesus. Mind you,i am not a religious person, i dont do religion(not a muslim neither a christian nor an atheist). I am a disciple of Jesus and follow Him daily

But Jesus said this didnt He?

Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me [size=14pt]through their word[/size];
John 17:20

What words was Christ referring to here?

Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, [size=14pt]they will keep yours also[/size]
John 15:20

Did the Apostles write or contradict Christ's teachings? NO. Else bring your proofs.


In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
Hebrews 8:13

rexben:
Paul founded christianity but not through Jesus Because most of His teachings contradicted what Jesus taught. Yes he claimed that the resurrected Jesus appeared unto him. Is Paul now saying the Jesus teachings before His death are not completely accurate?

Pray prove this with Scriptures!

Op, you are making a mistake here.

Just as if an Israelite saying God did not give us manna to eat; others claim they eat manna but what I eat is bread from Heaven .Because it was the people who, for want of a name, called it manna therefore they are wrong and deceived and i am right;even Moses and David that called it manna are wrong!!!

Or are you more knowledgeable than Peter who wrote this, remember Jesus already said there will be that will believe on Him through the words of the Apostles:

16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf
1Peter 4:16

And I would love to see how Paul/other Apostles contradict the teaching of Christ in their Epistles. Would you mind giving samples?
Who is a christian? A Disciple of Christ!

Silas4exploits:
Big lie! You ofcourse have no biblical proof for these. Infact you interpretation of the bible in respect to the nature of sin is wrong! I'm a living testimony to the fact that the blood of Jesus is so potent that it can save from nature as well as actions. Infact at salvation I got the power that I hated and could nomore commit my past sins. It was not a gradual process. It was an instantaneous one! On the cross, he declared it is finished. Everything was finished. When he saves and sanctify you, he does not partly deliver you from sin(nature) and leave you to battle with the actions. It's total victory! Once again i'm a testimony!

Thank God for your life bro. May God grant us more grace to serve Him acceptably till we see Him face to face!

promisechuks:
Let me ask you this.
Are you holy to the taste of God through your right living?

Why do you ask? You've made your misrepresentations and conclusions already so what good should a reply do for you?

Earnestly note the highlighted below:

Test and evaluate yourselves to see whether you are in the faith and living your lives as [committed] believers. Examine yourselves...! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves [by an ongoing experience] that Jesus Christ is in you—unless indeed you fail the test and are rejected as counterfeit?
2 corinthians 13:5 AMP

vooks:
But his is hypocrisy of the highest order!!!
On top of Legalism you are a hypocrite!

Thanks a lot.

By your own admission;
1. Wages of sin is death
2. You inherited Adam's sin
3. You were conceived in sin and shapen in iniquity

For all these three claims to hold true, God would have to destroy infants seeing they inherit sin and are sinners and wages of sin is death. Yet you hypocritically claim 'I don't know'. If you are uncomfortable of the consequences of your beliefs perhaps you should discard them

Read Romans 6 and pls see that the wages of sin there relates to servants of sin whose Fruit-conduct and lifestyle based on intelligent choices- is sinful.

So are infants vile sinners whose wage is death?

Wage is given to a labouring [/b]servant.

Yet they are still inheritors of sin whose wage is death and still you don't know what happens to them in death?
Hypocrite!

Alright, keep em coming!

If you don't know what God does to one group of sinners(infants) what right do you have to warn any other?

Because, God clearly said:

But the Lord said to Moses, Whoever [b]has sinned against Me, I will blot him [not you] out of My book.
Exodus 32:32

And how is that different from NT saints?
What is it that NT saints do that OT saints didn't that warrant there to be a distinction? Bring out this distinction, don't just claim it. Stop wasting time

The NT saints enter into the blessed realities of the Better covenant all made possible by the Indwelling Spirit mentioned by Jesus in John 7:39! No need to get worked up!

Holy Spirit was given to those who believed. The question is not what happened to those who believed in either dispensation after they believed but how their believing was different

You said saints in OT believed differently than NT saints BECAUSE the Spirit was not given.

Where did I say that? The focus of what you are misrepresenting was the RESULT of their faith and not the quality! Were you not the one that asked for fruit (RESULT) for the thief on the cross?

But note even in the NT, the Spirit is given AFTER believing, meaning at the point of believing there is no Spirit, and therefore the Spirit is not the DISTINCTION in belief. The question is how is the belief in OT different from that in NT?

See the answer ^^^^there.

If you are baptized and filled with the Spirit, and this is a big IF, when you got born again, you were not Spirit-filled, just like that thief on the cross. What is the difference between the thief believing in Jesus and yours?

This is not talking of the Blessed Baptism in the Holy Ghost! We are talking about the Regeneration and Renewing by the Holy Spirit! Not the same as the former which is Anointing for service.

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit;
Titus 3:5

5 He saved us, not because of any works of righteousness that we have done, but because of His own compassion and mercy, by the cleansing of the new birth (spiritual transformation, regeneration) and renewing by the Holy Spirit,
titus 3:5 AMP

Similarly explained by Paul in Romans 8.

God's demand is still the same:

Strive to live in peace with everybody and pursue that consecration and [size=14pt]holiness without which no one will [ever] see the Lord[/size]
Hebrews 12:14