₦airaland Forum

promisechuks:
This guy sef, I wonder how you understand the scripture, stop behaving like the self-righteous pharisees.

You even misunderstood the verse you quote!

Psalm 32:2
Blessed is the man to whom the Lord IMPUTETH NOT INIQUITY; and in whose spirit is of no guile!

That verse simply means that the blessed man HAD INIQUITY in HIM, but he is blessed, not because he had no inquity, rather he had but HIS INIQUITY which he HAD in him, is NOT IMPUTED(counted, accredited, reckoned) on him. And BECAUSE his iniquity is NOT imputed(accredited) on him, HIS SPIRIT IS OF NO GUILE and God sees him as righteous, even when he has the iniquity in him, the iniquity is not imputted on him.


Please read the bible and understand well before you misquote the scripture and mislead people from the faith.

The blessed man's spirit is of no guile, not because he did no sin, rather BECAUSE HE DID SIN, but his sins where not IMPUTED on him.


That's what exactly the Gospel of Jesus is pointing to. David was talking about Jesus CONCEALED, but in the new testament it was REVEALED.

New Living Translation
Yes, what joy for those whose record the LORD has cleared of guilt, whose lives are lived in complete honesty!

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Blessed is the son of man whose sin Lord Jehovah will not account to him, and there is no deceit in his heart


As far back as the OT, they knew God would not just stop at forgiving and living us what we were, imputation and Impartation go hand in hand the absence of the latter mocks the faith that claims the former!


9 Hide your face from my sins!
Wipe away all my guilt!

10 Create for me a pure heart, O God!
Renew a resolute spirit within me!

11 Do not reject me!
Do not take your Holy Spirit away from me!
Psalm 51:9-11

promisechuks:
My friend, you are derailing the question, trying to confuse people.

Pls show how. Quote the posts concerned and show from scripture how I am confusing them.

My friend, if you are sincere to propagate this your gospel, you so-called accusation shouldn't be an excuse to you.

Why dont you clear the air as requested so that we can proceed? Why do you find it hard

The apostle paul(preacher to the gentiles) preached faith in christ=eternal life and he said that anybody, be it an ANGEL from heaven comes and preaches another gospel that is not the "faith in christ alone = eternal life" gospel, which he preached to us let him be accursed.

Sure, so where have I asked people to buy grace by trying to be holy? Show just ONE post like that else this is false accusation!

But you are just here indirectly preaching righteousness of right living and yet pretending to be preaching righteousness of faith.

Please, who is deceiving who?

Once again, highlight ONE post that did the highlighted and parallel verses that the post contradicts!

vooks:
More on IMPUTED righteousness, a doctrine that irks Legalists because they have no conception of Grace whatsoever in their Pharisaical minds
2 Corinthians 5:21(KJV)
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Ask them HOW Christ became sin for us

And when we are made the righteousness of God the expectation is that our lives will be characterised by Holiness:

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15 and what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 16 and what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, 18 and will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
2 Corinthians 6:14-18

Before you call some body a pharisee explain the passages given and give your interpretation viz a viz parallel verses!

vooks:
All Legalists are tongue-tied. You are not the first.
So either ALL who have sinned includes infants who were shapen and conceived in iniquity, or it does not. Make up your mind and stop wasting my time.

What part of my post suggests indecision? Go back and re-read it. The "I dont know" you misunderstood relates to where they go if they die as infants.

How is an infant which is 'unable to intelligently believe and 'amoral' conceived in sin and shapen in iniquity?

Perhaps you may consider Psalm 51 where David said so, i didnt!

Which scriptures tell you they are amoral?
And if they are amoral, can they at the same time be guilty of sinning which necessarily demands morality?

and should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?
Jonah 4:11
They are neither knowledgeable nor intelligent to make decisions contrary to the Word.

Please briefly explain 'believed after the manner of OT saints'

He received a good report through his faith, confessed it by the request he made to Jesus and God was not ashamed of him (see Hebrews 11)

Also explain the difference between believing Jesus before and after the Spirit was given.

39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
John 7:39

At this time the disciple had believed on Him but could not enter into the benefits of the NT as shown in Ezekiel, Jeremiah etc. Why? The Blood that ratifies the covenant had not been shed. That is why Jesus said to the disciples of the Spirit that ," He dwells with you (Present) and shall be in you (future)

While at it explain what belief disciples had seeing they believed before Spirit was given

They believed after the pattern of Abraham!

stephenmorris:
Thomas Jefferson was never a Christian or religious person

Alright.

vooks:
Hold it right there.
You inherited Adam's sin?
So, what happens to an infant who has Adam's sin when they die? Go to hell?

we were shapen in iniquity and in sin were we conceived. Also, it says all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. This remains the position till we believe on Christ. Since a baby is unable to intelligently believe and is amoral, there being no scriptural basis to decide their fate, I dont know.

What fruit did the thief on the cross produce?

we cannot use that case, the Spirit had not yet been given hence he believed after the manner of the OT saints listed in Hebrews 11

promisechuks:
That you don't wanna answer doesn't mean that we ourselves don't know the truth, but you are busy making people to remove their faith from jesus and start to trust on their imperfect right living.

More accusations that you have failed to prove using the Scriptures.

The real truth is that you are confused in what you believe in, yet you don't want to settle your confusion. You need to understand the reality of the gospel of our lord Jesus.

more opinions that Awaits proof.

Why won't I call you a pharisee? While you are behaving like them. While the pharisees believes in faith right living = eternal life.

more slanderous accusations not yet proven!

If it was this way that paul dealt with peter, paul wouldn't have the courage to SERIOUSLY CAUTION peter when peter committed a sin of hypocrisy while eating with the gentiles together with the jews, because the VEIL of law of righteousness was TOO MUCH on peter that he would have liked the gentiles to be keeping all the laws of moses, if not that paul insisted. Gal 2:11-14. Read down to vs 21 to understand more on the righteousness of God which is of faith.



My friend I owe NO MAN any apology, when someone is making the gospel of Jesus of no relevance.

But I never asked for one?

I don't care about your countenance, because the gospel you are preaching is demonic, heretic and unscriptural.

more unproven and unexplained accusations. By saying this you direct same to the Lord and His Apostles! I am not surprised!

All I know is that I may allow people to pollute my food, water or any thing, but NEVER the case in the Gospel of our lord Jesus.


I know you absolutely couldn't defend your post with my question, that's why you are using your so-called fake accusation to escape the question that would have exposed your ignorance as concerns to righteousness before God.

It's simple , show where I said so. Why is it so hard?

promisechuks:
My friend, no matter how you try to justify it by shifting from using the word "satisfy" to "gratify".

In the verse I quoted, Jesus said".......ALREADY IN HIS HEART"

When somebody has already committed a sin ALREADY in his heart, does it need to be satisfied or gratified to become sin any longer, while thought of it is already a sin.

Satisfy/Gratify are synonymous. You appear not to realise that sexual urge is different from lusting! The latter is done with the heart and eyes and that with an object of gratification. Sexual urge is one of the desires put in man by God! At puberty, these urges begin to manifest but when such obeys the command to watch and flee youthful lusts, while depending on the Strength of the Lord, he will be victorious. That is why Paul said it is better to marry than to burn with ungratified desire!

Man, it is sexual urge that leads a man to watch porn. Sexual urge is not FIRST developed when the person is watching it, rather it is developed, before the person takes a DECISION to satisfy it.

If he satistfies it with his lawfully wedded wife, he has not sinned! Any other mode of satisfying it is sinful.

To satisfy it includes a voluntary action, but what Jesus was saying is pertaining to even it's thoughts.

Bro the bible is very clear on that, no matter how you try to twist a truth, it cannot be perfectly twisted as the person thinks.

marriage is honourable in all and the bed undefiled but adulterers and whoremongers, God will Judge Hebrews 13:4

My friend, I made it clear as per husband and wife. In that verse I quote, I clearly wrote "......(When not concerned with his wife)....."

As for a man, it is NOT a sin to LUST, HAVE SEXUAL DESIRE(urge), SEXUAL FANTASY for HIS WIFE. When it is not concerned to his wife it is CLEARLY JUDGED AS SIN.

Sure. But you need to go learn that Lust is the heart seeking to satisfy/gratify sexual desire in an ungodly manner!

Your problem is that you are trying to judge the scriptures with what you think, experiences and imagination. Instead of bringing all thought to subjection to the scriptures.

One satisfies or gratifies his sexual pleasures when he has gone from having the urge to practicalising his sexual desire.

You finally stylishly agree with me afterall!

Please, why are you lying this way? What is the difference between having sexual urge for something and having lust for something?

sexual urge has no object focus and is a natural desire, lust is an activity of the heart with an object of focus!

Why continue to deny it?

You need a study on puberty and what should be a christian's response to the hormonal changes in order to remain pure.

Lusting takes place in heart, right?

Yes

Then, sexual urge is triggered by what? And where does it take place?
The truth is busy laughing at your ignorance.

In the body! Where other desire like hunger , thirst dwell!

You are running helter skelter so as to justify it, but a TRUTH is the nothing but the truth because it CANNOT be twisted.

a lot of mistake is made when we think our thoughts are facts and hold on to them even if the whole world sshows otherwise.

I was so much stunned at your ignorance at the end of your reply.

So because they were not stoned to death it is not sin?

Jesus said the priests profane the sabbath and are blameless!!!
Selah

What about the adulterer that was about to be kill?

yes, she violated the law and the judgement prescribed was about to be applied. This was a moral issue!

So disobeying ceremonial laws is not sin and cannot result to death, if not for christ sake?

Prove this from scriptures! Stating personal opinions as facts is deception redefined!

So thereby, justifying disobedience against, govt authority?

You are just amazing me with your ignorance, trying to escape the truth, buts still can't.

I think I should point out one person who was killed by God himself out of disobedience to ceremonial law. UZZAH according to 2samuel 6:1-7. Read that quotation, and tell me if it was not out of disobedience to ceremonial that he was smote by God himself.

That was not an issue of ceremonial law. Uzzah's action was like one usurping position though he did it ignorantly! Search deeper!

Do you know that disobeying govt rules like traffic can risk the life of people around you. You are trying to justify it, meaning that it is not a sin before God.

Where did I justify it? Sure it is wrong and the repercussion is ONLY the risk to self and others.

My friend, if you think you have to live rightly to make heaven, then my friend you should live perfectly as God is.

Even God interrupts His own ordinances in nature we call it miracles! Why not analyse the issue of Jesus and payment of tribute that by rule He was not to pay?

vooks:
So, what happened after He IMPUTED it? You became righteous. Before God, you are as righteous as Jesus Christ, you partook his divine nature. Right away. Do you believe this?



No problem, but ever wondered why God IMPUTES righteousness on you in the first place?

In short, what is the PURPOSE of imputing RIGHTEOUSNESS of God/Christ by faith and not works?

Just as Adam's sin was imputed to all his descendants together with the consequences and nature, when we repent and believe on Jesus Christ God justly imputes the righteousness, and nature (by His Spirit) in us.

See Psalm 32:2
Blessed is the man to whom the Lord Imputeth not iniquity AND IN WHOSE SPIRIT IS NO GUILE!

This proves what I said that Imputation and Impartation occurs simultaneously and the absence of the fruits of the latter voids the faith that claims the former!

promisechuks:
My friend, list out the things I accused you, to start with, if you are really sincere with yourself.

Simple, prove that I said what you claimed I said in your first post on this thread. (others are in that other thread)

Call you names? My friend I won't call you names, okay? If I have called you, kindly highlight.

I was referring to the pharisee label in that other thread. Unfortunately you draw this conclusion from your deliberate misrepresentation of my posts. Asked to show such (deliberately misquoted) posts has yielded no result!

And continue to shy away from my exposing questions?

First prove that I said that which was your opening accusation.

Let's beware of neo-Nicolaitans! Any one who follows them will fall in to this trap:

They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
Titus 1:16

Disobedient? Yes, after all they claim we can live as we like hence implying Jesus and His Apostles were pulling an April fool stunt when they warned us to watch and be sober!

Unto every good work reprobate? Sure, after all they dont believe what the Bible says Grace does for us! eg Titus 2:11,12

Beware!!!

promisechuks:
My friend stop beating around the bush, answer the questions I asked you.

Stop hiding from it, if you truly understand the essence of the message of the cross.


STOP TAKING PEOPLE TO HELL!!!!

This is now showing your ignorance as concerned to the true gospel.


Paul preached the gospel of FAITH alone which you are referring to as greasy grace because no work is needed, and you guys have just introduced faith+right living=eternal life(another gospel). And that is why people are now loosing hope in christ seeing that NO MAN is justified in flesh and making them go into atheism.
GOD PUNISHED THE DEVIL!!!


But, all I know is that it is only a DEMONIC, HERETIC gospel that makes the salvation way too hard for people to be saved.


But all I know is that we must declare the Gospel that makes righteousness of God which is of no works to be made manifest.

You should not find it so difficult to prove your accusation! Just do that and ALL your questions will be answered!

I am holding it down like this because you did same on that other thread and till now have NOT been able to prove your misrepresenting accusations!

Say whatever you like and call names but you will only get answers when you prove that maligning accusation.

vooks:
[size=1pt][/size]

Has God IMPUTED the righteousness of Christ on you, or are you still slaving attempting the impossible?

Sure He did. He also imparted His Righteousness by His Spirit! Consider this:

Now both did not happen at separate times however, the absence of the expression of that imparted is a sure sign that of the absence of faith.

And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

22 in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight

27 to whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

28 whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
Colossians 1:21,22,27,28

After we are reconciled, there is an expected fruit holiness, unblameable and unreproveable life in God's sight! By trying or struggling? NO
By surrendering to the faith of Christ Who lives in us!

Jozzy4:
The seals are symbols or literal ? If literal , kindly admit death also ride a horse while Hades run after him and also stars of the heaven fell down to the earth

And who mentioned seal? Please seal is not the same thing as soul. Are the souls symbols? That is my question.

johnydon22:
Just as you have forgotten your own history, roots and heritage as an African who left his own heritage to embrace that of the Jews.

You might have also said the Abraham forgot his idolatrous roots to embrace...?(Fill in the gap)

Its amazing how you are concerned of America forgetting their heritage and not about you forgetting yours..

Just keeping with the topic of the thread.

By the way Native Americans had their own religion, Columbus massacred them to establish the new colony!!!

And William Penn met with the same Native Americans with peace.

Because they have forgotten their heritage. See what some Americans said:

Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.
William Penn

If we abide by the principles taught in the Bible, our country will go on prospering and to prosper; but if we and our posterity neglect its instruction and authority, no man can tell how sudden a catastrophe may overwhelm us and bury all our glory in profound obscurity.
Daniel Webster

America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Abraham Lincoln

Read More http://www.cancertutor.com/quotes_presidents/

I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that His justice cannot sleep forever.
Thomas Jefferson

promisechuks:
Sexual urge is not sinful? It is a sin when it is satisfied?

Why are you so self-righteous and heretic?

It is bad to misquote others just to prove a point. This is what I said:

The sexual urge is not sinful!!! Sin starts when we seek to satisfy it [size=14pt]by ungodly means![/size]

Matt 5:28; "But I say unto you, that whosoever looketh on a woman(the object of the urge) to lust(sexual urge) after her hath committed adultery with her ALREADY IN HIS HEART."

It is very clear that when you have the urge in you, whether later satisfied or not, you have already committed the sin of adultery, IN YOUR HEART.

Sexual urge is different from gratifying same by LUSTING after a woman! Others gratify it by pornography! Those are examples of the ungodly means of satisfying the urge!

This also shows you, that you can commit some other sins IN YOUR HEART, without even talking about satisfying it.


There is no sexual urge without an object or centre of attraction.

That is not true! Except if you think sexual urge is the same as LUSTING, which is a wrong thought.

Your prick cannot start to move without you thinking about something related to sex. You cannot be reading your bible and at the same time be having sexual urge for the bible you are reading except you are thinking about something sexy while reading the scripture, because the bible is not a center for sexual attraction.

That's lusting and sexual fantasy, not sexual urge.

When you are guilty of a sin, don't try to modernise it or defend it. Take it the way it is.

So sexual urge a husband has for his wife is sinful since sexual urge is sinful? NO! Marriage is honourable and the bed undefiled!
Sexual urge is not the same as LUSTING, the latter take place in the heart.

So you are trying to justify the sin of disobedience against the Government, through red light, not putting helmet, not having updated driving licence, not putting on your seatbelt while driving, answering calls or drinking while driving, BECAUSE THEY ARE FOR MY GOOD, right?

Show where I justified it.

So God didn't give the laws that he gave for our own Good? When we disobey God's law, we will go to hell, but that's not the case as per Govt.?

When they disobeyed the ceremonial law and ate flesh with the blood in the days of the kings, were they struck dead? Some of those ceremonial laws were basically health related (eg going outside the camp to defaecate) was any to be stoned to death because they didnt? NO
But the repercussion of not obeying them will be harm to health, finish! On that platform stands the laws of man. Except of course when it begins to bring in issues that contradict the righteousness God expects eg those that tend to false witnessing, murder, theft etc

Just see how hypocritical you are, you want to be righteous before God by your right living but still trying to justify the sin of disobedience (which the bible says is worse than the sin of witchcraft) against the govt.

You still have not showed me where I said that. False accusation is sin remember?

But why is it that when you see the road safety guy or police, you will start to be running away from them or pretend, if you are not consciously disobeying(sinning) them. If you are doing the right thing why running away from them.

And when did i do that? Now if they catch you, do you go to repent? NO! You pay the fine prescribed by the law and you learn not to be negligent next time, Simple!

Which means, disobedience and hypocrisy

I once met a man who claimed killing an insect is sin. It is usual practice to stretch sin to so as to justify claims that God is incapable of setting us free!

If you want to live rightly, to be seen righteous, before God, you must be totally sinless. No matter what. Until that, you are still joking with your life!

okay

Stay in faith alone!

And remember that faith is shown by works else faith is dead.

promisechuks:
Are you saying that samson didn't die by suicide?

Man go read you judges well!

No, Samson did not commit suicide. This claim of yours is akin to saying, Esther was contemplating suicide when she went to the king sans invitation.

vooks:
Muafrika2,Scholar8200
I had promised to do justice to the righteousness of Christ.
Let me repeat that the best of man's manners and intents don't make him righteous;

Pls, where did I imply that?

if it did, Jesus died in vain. This brand of faith you are peddling is Legalism, the idea that some conduct may endear you to God. I will tackle that later on.

But the Bible clearly tells us we receive Grace by faith and faith teaches us to deny worldly lusts and ungodliness and to live righteously and godly Titus 2:11,12? So holiness of life is a Result of Grace received not a price to receive Grace!

For now, turn with me to Romans 4

Romans 4:1-8 (NKJV)
1 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh?
2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”
4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,
6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”

Please note;
1. Abraham was never justified by ANY work he did.
2. Had Abraham been justified by his works, he'd have had a sound reason to be proud. Justification by works is a source of pride. It gives the 'justified' some sense of accomplishment.
3. Abraham believed and on the basis of his faith righteousness was credited to his account. Please look up verse 3 in as many translations as you can because this is the basis of my post. Also note that believing is not a work as it is contrasted with work. Whatever work means, it precludes faith.

Agreed.

4. When you work, your wages are your entitlement, they are your right. One can't call this right grace seeing they earned it....which means Grace is a gift!
5. On the contrary, without doing any work but by just believing, your account is credited with righteousness on the basis of your faith.

Nice teaching for a new convert, but if he continues and there is no evidence of Grace, then there is a problem. And not only is your account credited before the Judge, also there is also an impartation by the Spirit that leads to transformation of life!

6. Even David in Psalms 32:1-2 capture of his righteousness which is free from ANY work. God IMPUTES this righteousness. That's a powerful word. He clothes you with it without you having done any work.

I find that clause disagreeable with the use of righteousness imputed as a legal transaction! That of we being clothed is Righteousness Imparted. This is also Gift of Grace which we receive by faith but must watch and be renewed in:

Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
Revelation 16:15

Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
Revelations 3:4

We will see Paul expounding on this righteousness that God IMPUTES on us without any work further;
In verses 9-12, Paul argues that this blessedness of God imputing righteousness without works is applicable for both Jews and Gentiles seeing Abraham received it while uncircumcised.

Romans 4:19-25 (NKJV)
19 And not being weak in faith, he did not consider his own body, already dead (since he was about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah's womb. 20 He did not waver at the promise of God through unbelief, but was strengthened in faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully convinced that what He had promised He was also able to perform. 22 And therefore “it was accounted to him for righteousness.”
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but also for us. It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification.


Here, Paul artfully as only one inspired can write sums up his argument. The righteousness that was imputed on Abraham by his faith is also ours, and it is IMPUTED to us. While Abraham believed that God would keep His promise including raising his dead son, we believe in Jesus who died for our sin, paying the price, and was resurrected for our justification.

Agreed 100%

I have always wondered why God IMPUTES righteousness on us. It is simply because His standards of righteous are way too lofty for any man to achieve them, because He is our standard;
Matthew 5:48 (NKJV)
48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

But was Jesus here commanding something His Grace cannot do in us? Did not the Bible say God works in us both to Will and Do His Good Pleasure? How about this :


Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, 21 make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Hebrews 13:20,21
Shouldnt we rather seek the fulfilment of these greater provisions of His Grace?

Remember Jesus said not all that call Him Lord will enter but they that do His will and that is what is promised here not by our trying or struggling but by His Working in us and we surrender?

So what is IMPOSSIBLE for man to achieve by works, God IMPUTES on us by faith. I wish to reiterate that God does not call you righteous because you have somewhat conquered all 'major' sins and are actively striving to please Him; He IMPUTES the righteousness of Christ the moment you believe. This righteousness of Christ is not imputed by continuous acts of piety, because if that were the case, it would be of works.

Agreed 100%

During animal sacrifices, an exchange happened; the innocent spotless animal without blemish takes on the sin of the sinner while the sinner take on its purity. This is why the animal is subsequently killed while the sinner's debt is paid

At the cross, Jesus who was holy and pure was treated as a sinner so that we who are sinners and impure can be treated as righteous. This is what is meant by Jesus died for our sins, raised for our justification. Remember in Romans 4:1 Abraham was justified by faith. For us, we appropriate the merits of the cross by believing Jesus died and rose again for us.

Again, and even before we get to our subject verse,
Romans 3:21-22 (NKJV)
21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe.

Please note Paul's emphasis that this righteousness is APART from the Law. It is independent of the Law although the Law witnesses it. The Law points to it but it cannot give it.

This is interesting. Think about it; ANYTHING you can possibly think or do is already mentioned in the Law yet the righteousness of God by faith is apart from the Law. When you read these commandments, they hint at how hard it is to meet God's standards.

The Law described the righteousness but could not give it.
But if we will be true to the Big picture of Romans, the righteousness which is apart from the Law, fulfils the righteous demands of the Law and exceeds it (Jesus showed this when He gave the Sermon on the Mount)

that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Romans 8:4

Take the greatest commandments which Muafrika2 boldly claims to keep or bother keeping;
Matthew 22:37-40 (NKJV)
37 Jesus said to him, “ ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

Does Muafrika2 purport to assure us that he loves EVERYONE as he loves himself at ALL times?
If God was to judge you purely on the basis of your love for your neighbor, if He was to regard your iniquity in falling short of this command, would you make it to heaven?

As regards these questions, only God can answer this and his conscience and if neither condemns him, who are you to judge?
Besides, faith worketh by love!And we move in righteousness from faith to faith, receiving therewith grace for grace and being renewed by the Spirit from glory to glory! Where there is no growth, death is evident!

See it is so difficult to keep the Law that the Law is called the Law of sin and death! This righteousness can't be earned, that's why I laughed at your half-hearted claims that you are RIGHTEOUS, that looking at you one would see God...I'm certain you don't even believe it yourselves, you said it merely to save face


TO BE CONTINUED...

Like I said about receiving Life, see this:

Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law
Galatians 3:21
Righteousness transcends just a judicial declaration to the receiving of Life! And that Life manifests to the degree to which we walk in the Spirit and allow Him mortify the flesh and its deeds (Romans 8:13)

promisechuks:
I am beginning to understand that you don't even understand the bible you read. Or that you read the scriptures through the eyes of the pharisees(right living).


Does sleep imply right living?

My friend, "sleep" there is talking about people like you who are not trusting on God as their righteousness, thereby get weak(sleep) in faith, and these set of people can never be righteous before God.

Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
1 Thess 5:6-8

So,as per the highlighted, how come since you kick against right living even though efforts have been made to show that that is the result of Grace working in us?

So much accusation of self-righteousness and pharisee which you have not been able to prove by highlighting a post and showing how it contradicts the Big Picture of the NT and the teachings therein!

Kujo:
can someone please explain what the bible is trying to say in the book of mathew 5 vs 25

New International Version
"Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still together on the way, or your adversary may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison.

King James Bible
Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.

Can the defendant ever bribe the plaintiff?

promisechuks:
Will the questions I asked expose you?
You are afraid of answering it?

Why can't you anwser the question, so we can see the truth for ourselves?

You know the truth, why not preach!

Please, if you are really sincere with this heretic gospel of "faith + right living = eternal life", please I CHALLENGE YOU TO ANSWER MY QUESTION WITH CONCISE ANSWERS.


That's the way you have been running up and down each time I ask you some bunch of exposing question. Man give it a try, let the truth expose it self through your ignorance.


denying worldly lusts and ungodliness and living soberly, righteously and godly in this present world as referred to Tutus 2:11-12, doesn't even MAKE you something NEAR righteousness before God. Because the same Titus 2:11 - "The grace of God(not right living) that BRINGETH SALVATION hath appeared to ALL MEN(not to people who live right)."

It is the grace of God that makes them deny worldly lusts, ungodliness and living soberly and righteous. IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT THE BELIEVE WILL BECOME SINLESS. Until you become sinless before God, you CANNOT reach God's standard of righteousness. But that's what christ gives us FREELY in him.


And it doesn't mean that, when a person falls back to temptation of sin, he has not deny the worldly lust. If so then, paul and peter will be rotting in hell by now because paul never declared himself a sinless but said that he sometimes see his other members obeying sin, BUT GOD FORBID THAT IT NEVER HAPPENED.


When you believe in christ, you are forever imperfect in christ(as long as you are still believing) but FOREVER IMPERFECT IN FLESH.

If believing in christ can make you perfect in christ, which means SINLESS, please kindly quote a single verse from the scriptures that says such.

Still waiting for the answers to my questions!

I will answer but not before you have proved that rather false accusation.

promisechuks:
Since you said that the Gospel of grace(no work needed) which entails the essence of christ's birth, death, resurrection and why he declared his work at the cross as finished work, is another Gospel.

Please, I will like you to explain the essence of the Gospel, which entails the birth, death, ressurection and the glory that should follow, with the below questions.


Why did christ come into the world?

What happened at the cross?

What is the need for the death of christ?

Did christ die for the imputation, penalty, condemnation and guilty of our sin? If yes/no, show us the proof that shows the PROCESS involved and how it happened.


Or did he die over the power of sin over flesh, which means that when we accept him, we will become sinless like him?
To answer this tell me HOW(what was involved in the process) it happened at the cross. And also list one SINGLE person that never sinned after accepting christ, use scriptural proof. Something like "He was punished for our sake so that I will be imputted his righteousness" or "He fell under the influence of the power of sin over flesh(name sin he fell under it's power), so that I will be sinless when I believe in him." backed up with scripture



At the cross, when he paid, were ALL(past, present and future) the sins of the whole world forgiven?
If yes show us scriptural proof. If no, how can there be entire(all) without a complete(past, present and future)? Can there be entire without present, past or future? Show us the scripture that says ALL forgiven sin = Past sin till the day you accepted christ.


What is the essence of christ death for our JUSTIFICATION? Prove with scripture! I am emphatic on justification!

Can you show me a single verse that says faith right living = eternal life?

Is our eternal life maintained by our right living? If yes, how can your righteousness maintain what it was too filthy that it couldn't earn? ANSWER WITH THE SCRIPTUES.

Is eternal life a gift(unmerited)? YES/NO is needed here!

When do one receive eternal life? When they believe in christ and say salvation prayer or on the judgement day? Prove with scripture!

If they receive eternal life after salvation prayer, what will they receive at the Judgement day? Prove with scripture!

If they receive eternal life on the day of judgement, is it still a gift or a reward? And what is the reward for the judgement day? Prove with scripture

What is the difference between crown of life and eternal life, and it's basis?
Eternal life and crown of life are they the same and of gift? Is eternal life a gift and crown of life a reward? Prove with scripture!

What is the basis for getting eternal life?

What is the basis for getting crown of life?

Are we supposed to live rightly for the purpose of getting eternal life? If yes, how is it still a gift and not of reward for our works of righteousness as said the gopel of paul?

Or are we supposed to live rightly for the purpose of getting a reward which of crown of life and not eternal life which is of Gift?


If jesus was punished for our sins, can we still be punished for our sins and mistakes when we believe in his finished work? If yes, settle the contradiction WITH BIBLICAL PROOF. Because us being punished for the sins christ was punished for , is a clear sign of injustice and makes christ's death of NO RELEVANCE, and also portraying God as a God of injustice for judging a sin twice.


What will be the basis of the judgement of the believers? What will they be judge for? For the sins christ was judged and condemned to death for? If yes, how is judging a sin twice shows justice and doesn't that make God look like a God of justice?

Or will they be judged based on their works as referred to 1cor3:13-15? And if there work is not of good value they will suffer loss, the "suffer loss" does it imply loss of eternal life, that was given as a free gift which of grace nd not of right living, or does it imply their reward(crown of life) which is of works?


If they will suffer loss of their eternal life, doesn't that make eternal life look like a reward that is based on our works of righteousness which makes the word of God according to paul a lie? Prove with the scripture!


If we were not given eternal life because of right living, but for the sake of our faith in christ, how can we lost our eternal life which was not given for the sake of our right living, if not losing our faith(that made us receive the gift) in him by believing in the unscriptural and heretic theology of "faith right living = eternal life".


Finally, the works we labour and the life we live as believers of christ, should it be on the basis of earning eternal life that has been given to us freely already, or should it be on the basis of crown of life which is of reward?


PLEASE GIVE ME CONCISE ANSWERS, DO NOT BEAT AROUND THE BUSH!

First show me where you found the highlighted in this thread, then I will answer.

Why not seek the Lord for that Grace that teaches and empowers you to deny worldly lusts and ungodliness and to live soberly, rigjteously and godly in this present world (Titus 2:11-12) rather than making accusations that you have failed to prove!

Jozzy4:
That means you believe that death can ride a horse while Hades run after him ..

That stars actually fell down on earth kudos man

In reading Revelations, it will be wrong to assume all things there are symbols! Were those beheaded souls symbols? Why did Jesus say what shall it profit a man if he gains the world and loose his soul? Was that also a symbol?

The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be;
and [size=13pt]that which is done is that which shall be done:[/size]
and [size=13pt]there is no new thing under the sun[/size].
Ecclesiastes 1:9



In Revelations 2, Jesus specifically said thus:

But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate

So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate
Revelations 2:6,15

Who were the Nicolaitans whose doctrine and deeds were found to be odious to the point that Jesus warned of judgement against the Church that accommodated it?

While their origin is not certain, their doctrine and deeds were popularly known. As you would see, the spirit of the antichrist has been seeking to subvert the Church (like Balaam did Israel) using this doctrine of devils.

Well, you would think the antichrist will always be violently opposed to Christ! Not all the time!

Infact, the deadliest operation of this spirit against the Church is not the violence but this depicted by its definition viz:
[i]
the Antichrist "assails Christ by proposing to do or to preserve what he did, while denying Him." Antichrist, then, is one who opposes Christ in the guise of Christ
[/i]Biblehub.com


Now to the Nicolaitanes:

Answer: The exact origin of the Nicolaitans is unclear. Some Bible commentators believe they were a heretical sect who followed the teachings of Nicolas—whose name means “one who conquers the people”—who was possibly one of the deacons of the early church mentioned in Acts 6:5. It is possible that Nicolas became an apostate, denying the true faith and became part of a group holding "the doctrine of Balaam," who taught Israel "to sin by eating food sacrificed to idols and by committing sexual immorality." Clement of Alexandria says, “They abandoned themselves to pleasure like goats, leading a life of self-indulgence.” Their teaching perverted grace and replaced liberty with license.
{Unfortunately the Neo-Nicolaitans today now twist Scripture to excuse themselves!!! Even if the interpretation they give contradicts Christ and His Apostles! Some even go beyond and claim the NT has divisions- some to Israel, another to Gentiles and the rest to the Church the latter part being the one they could easily twist to suit their lusts!}
it is certain that the deeds of the Nicolaitans were an abomination to Christ. They, like the Gnostics and other false teachers, abused the doctrine of grace and tried to introduce licentiousness in its place (2 Peter 2:15, 19; Jude 1:4).
{Their followers today start on the mild point knowing that to go out and out will jolt everyone so they start ostensibly agreeing with True Grace but their goal can be discovered with a little extrapolation considering the depravity of the human nature}

The lesson for us is that the church of the Lord Jesus throughout the ages has been plagued by those of the Nicolaitan spirit. The only way to recognize false teaching is to be intimately familiar with truth through the diligent study of the Word of God.

http://www.gotquestions.org/Nicolaitans.html


The problem underlying the Nicolaitan controversy, though so little direct mention is made of it in Scripture, was in reality most important, and concerned the whole relation of Christianity to paganism and its usages. The Nicolaitans disobeyed the command issued to the Gentilechurches, by the apostolic council held at Jerusalem in 49-50 A.D., that they should refrain from the eating of "things sacrificed to idols" (Acts 15:29).
{NO WONDER THEY QUICKLY BRAND YOU A PHARISEE TODAY WHEN YOU POINT TO THE FACT THAT HOLINESS IS THE OUTWORKING OF GRACE RECEIVED THROUGH FAITH AS TAUGHT IN THE EPISTLES AND GOSPELS}

Such a restriction, though seemingly hard, in that it prevented the Christian communities from joining in public festivals, and so brought upon them suspicion and dislike, was yet necessary to prevent a return to a pagan laxity of morals. In writing to the Corinthians, Paul gives warning against the same evil practices, basing his arguments on consideration for the weaker brethren (compare 1 Corinthians .
biblehub.com



(followers of Nicolas), a sect mentioned in (Revelation 2:6,15) whose deeds were strongly condemned. They may have been identical with those who held the doctrine of Balaam. They seem to have held that[b] it was lawful to eat things sacrificed to idols, and to commit fornication, in opposition to the decree of the Church rendered in (Acts 15:20,29)[/b]{THE APOSTLES KNEW WE WERE NOT UNDER THE LAW BUT THEY ALSO KNEW THAT NOBODY WHO HAS RECEIVED GRACE SHOULD FIND THESE DIFFICULT TO OBEY! REMEMBER THE DECREE WAS WRITTEN TO THOSE WHOSE PRE-CONVERSION LIFE HAD BEEN CHARACTERISED BY THESE THINGS BUT WERE NOWTRANSFORMED BY GRACE! THE APOSTLES KNEW THAT IF THEY DISMISSED CIRCUMCISION-FOR-SALVATION WITH A WAVE OF HAND, THE DECEIVERS WILL COME UP WITH ANOTHER EXTREME GREASY GRACE-NO NEED TO OBEY THE WORD BUT OUR GREASY GRACE TEACHERS TODAY WOULD HAVE BRANDED THE APOSTLES PHARISEES}

The teachers of the Church branded them with a name which expressed their true character. The men who did and taught such things were followers of Balaam. (2 Peter 2:15; Jude 1:11) They, like the false prophet of Pethor, united brave words with evil deeds. In a time of persecution, when the eating or not eating of things sacrificed to idols was more than ever a crucial test of faithfulness, they persuaded men more than ever that was a thing indifferent. (Revelation 2:13,14) This was bad enough
Smith's Bible Dictionaries

When Jesus warned of the last days, His first statement was not the wars , earthquakes etc, It was:

Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Matthew 24:4b,5

Is this not getting fulfilled today?

Finally:
Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
2 Peter 3:17

Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
Revelations 16:15

35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning: 36 lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.
37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

Mark 13:35-37

From the Mouth of Jesus Himself! Yet some tell us we can go to sleep!!!

newnature:
Reconciliation has to do with God’s justice being satisfied for sins, and that means all of them and that means for all the world, reconciliation is a sin issue.

Reconciliation and sanctification are not one and the same, they are two different truths.

You talk of reconciliation? When we are reconciled with God through Christ, this will be the result:

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

22 in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

23 if ye continue in the faith grounded and settled,
Colossians 1:21-23

RED: In the past you were enemies and that was manifested by a sinful life, this was before you were reconciled
BLUE: After being reconciled, there is a change and holiness becomes a lifestyle
PURPLE: It is conditional (IF), you have a part to continue in that faith and its fruit

promisechuks:
Just see the gravity of your heresy!
Man, I will replying all this your heretic points here.

Explain those scriptures then.

newnature:
The inevitable result of God’s grace to the believer is true peace, because every believer is without blame before him in love

The inevitable result of God's Grace is thus described:

For the [size=14pt]grace of God[/size] that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
titus 2:11,12

. God sees us in Christ, and Christ was blameless. Sin is not the question anymore, reconciliation is the link that connects Grace and Peace.

Then please call on ALL the Apostles to edit their Epistles because your statement contradicts them.

newnature:
Contenders for literalism suppose that the rich man and Lazarus were disembodied souls, destitute of bodies. Yet the rich man is described as having eyes that see and a tongue that speaks, as well as seeking relief from the finger of Lazarus, all real body parts.

Of course!!! The souls of those that were beheaded in Revelation 6 had mouths to cry, "how long"! Revelations 6:9,10

newnature:
As we read the letters, which are addressed to us through the Apostle Paul; and, on turning to the Book of Revelation, in chapters two and three we are at once conscious of a striking change. We find letters suddenly removed from the ground of “Grace” to the ground of “Works”.

So was Ephesus a Jewish tribe? Or Smyrna or Sardis? NO. This position agrees that faith receives that which is manifested in the Life! Where the latter is absent, faith is vain! Plain Simple!

The Book of Revelation contains a record (by vision and prophecy) of the events, which shall happen in the Day of Yahweh, after the Body of Christ shall have been removed from the earth. The whole Book of Revelation is concerned with the Israelite, the Gentile, and the Earth, but not with the body of Christ.

So the Churches that were mentioned were? Is there a different standard for salvation? Or The Lord Himself too does not understand Grace again

Why not lay aside these self-generated notions and tampering with scriptures? The other day another of your ilks claimed that the teachings of Christ in the gospels is not meant for the Church,another one said the book of James was not for the church, WHY? You label people pharisees and disown whole books right in your Bible just because you want to hold on to some man-made , greasy grace doctrine?

Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 by which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 and that[b] he was buried,[/b] and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures
1 Corinth 15:1-4